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S05.E14: Cause and XS

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After Iris lands in serious danger, Nora races to save her mother. Barry puts the finishing touches on the metahuman cure, leaving Cisco with a rare night off so he decides to take Kamilla (guest star Victoria Park) on a date.

Rachel Talalay directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Jeff Hersh.

Airdate: 2/12/2019

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Edited by Trini

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 Can we get Gypsy back?   She's not so judgy.   And she doesn't have a nose ring.  

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So, this has nothing to do with the actual episode, but when Nora ran and stopped in front of Iris, real lightning flashed in my living room windows and I was very confused for a moment.

Ah, Allens fucking up the timeline with the best of intentions. You gotta admit, this show's consistent. Iris figuring it out and asking threw me off. I was waiting for Cisco to say it, after all the vibes, but then he didn't seem to have already put it together before Iris mentioned it. I'm so glad Cisco told her about Eobard murdering him in the past timeline. Yes, throw all the reasons not to trust Eobard at her. 

I'm a little amazed that Iris dying didn't cause a paradox for Nora's existence. Actually, that could've made a really interesting episode.

"We're not gods." Yes, Barry because the Barry that tried that was a complete psychopath. 

I don't like that they've sidelined Barry a few times this season. On top of the three Cisco-less episodes and utter lack of Joe this season, it's just too much. 

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I enjoyed this episode, but I swear Nora can't tell the truth for her or anyone's life. I don't know why she didn't just tell the team what was going on, but I liked that they figured it out and came up with a plan together. I did really liked how they showed Nora running to the past.

It aggravates me that Nora still won't be honest about Thawne even as she is having doubts. I don't how he has convinced her that stopping Cicada will save Barry. She has to be the most gullible person ever to appear on this show.

Nice job getting Barry out of the way. I loved how he passed on Jay's wise advice using the cup and telling Nora that they are not gods and shouldn't mess with the timeline. 

So glad to see Cisco again. He is such a sweet character. At least, the time changes gave Cisco more chances to get his date right. He looked handsome. I love how long his hair is now.

Chris Klein is just soooo bad, and I mean baaaaaaad!

Edited by SimoneS
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“You went back how many times? FIFTY-TWO?!? Wow . . . you are really my daughter. You’re smart and adorkable, but this cinches it!”

I feel bad for Chris Klein, in the sense that Cicada was too one-note. I know, that was the point, but I wonder if he had to growl “Told you” once or multiple times. That got annoying quickly #rimshot

Not exactly like “Here I Go Again,” Zari’s “Hedgehog Day” adventure from Legends. Just an hour of Nora screwing up over and over. The bit with Cecile made me laugh. And then Cisco got nailed. “Told you. Wait, didn’t I kill you already?” Am I a bad person for expecting Joe to be tied up at some point?

Still not getting the 2049 scenes, and what Nora and Eobard are trying to do. Tom does bring intensity in his one scene in that suit. Sherloque was on point as well, but I’m good with seeing Le French Wells leave at season’s end.

ETA: In case you missed it, Capt. Singh was on Arrow last night. I don't think he's figured out Barry = Flash yet.

Edited by Lantern7
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So not once in those 52 attempts did Nora think, “Gee I haven’t tried telling them what’s going and working together yet, maybe that’s the solution!” UGH. They’re making me hate this character with how dumb she is. And then when Chris Klein is down on the ground after being stabbed by his own dagger no one does anything! They just stare at him! Until he Super Mario jumps out of there! THEY’RE ALL SO DUMB SOMETIMES!

Edited by shantown
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Did Nora not consider bringing Cecile to the lounge of safety?  There was no one left to kidnap after that!  Cicada didn't go after her until after he broke into Iris's office so she had time.

Speaking of which, I guess this means Iris can't go back to her office until the Cicada business is wrapped up.  That's what you get for investigating without a clever disguise like a pair of glasses.

I'd really like to know why they decided Chris Klein should use such a ridiculous growl and menacing manner.  Tom Cavanaugh is right there - he knows how to create a good villain.

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Yeah, fifty two times before she finally told someone, and only because the last time had her acting erratic enough where the team noticed? Yeah, she may be Barry's daughter but even Barry's not dumb enough to keep something like this when the first fifty times didn't work. Ok, that's not entirely true, but Barry's grown a lot in five seasons. So watching Nora is not fun.

I actually missed Barry all episode, but appreciate his lesson at the end. 

I don't like Camilla at all. I get the lesson was for Cisco to be himself, but she had bitch face the entire time on those 52 dates. I get it's because Cisco was trying too hard and he shouldn't have been, but Camilla showed how judgy she could be. So what happens if Cisco shows her something about himself that she doesn't like? She seemed rather quick to get out of there all of those times. Nope, go away, Camilla. Cisco deserves better. 

Wait, so when Cecile was killed the first time, did Nora not go and grab her after that to bring her to the lab? Did she and maybe Cicada captured another member of Central City? 

And even with Cisco warning Nora about Eobard Thawne by telling her about his vibrating hand death, she still goes back to him. 

Meh. Definitely nowhere near as good as Legends' Groundhog Day episode, and no "but" to follow this sentence. It wasn't that good of an episode. It had some ok moments but nothing I'd praise. 

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Because I just binged Russian Doll on Netflix this weekend, all I could think was "Gotta get up, gotta get out, gotta get home before the morning comes..." every time Nora got back to the start of the timeline.

I enjoyed this episode, even if Nora continues to infuriate me with her bad choices. I mean, did it never occur to her to just tell everyone the truth after the first few times? Its not like they dont know she has super powers! She doesent even know about about Flashpoint or anything, so she wouldn't even presumably know that they would tell her to stop. Although, early seasons Barry probably would have done the same thing, before its finally gotten through his head not to mess with the time line, or to keep stupid secrets from his friends and family. Nora is very Barry like, but without his years of character development, and somehow even more gullible. 

I mean, how does Nora still think that working with Thawne is a good idea, even to save her dad? She literally just heard the horrific story of how the guy literally and figuratively crushed Uncle Cisco's heart in another time line, and how he had to relive that over and over, and she just goes right back to him? Really Nora? That sounds like a trustworthy guy to you? History really does repeat though, huh? Just like Dad, Nora goes back in time to save her tragically killed parent who died when they were a child, involving Thawne. 

I am so not feeling Camilla. She just looked really pissed off the whole time, even for pretty minor stuff, and yeah Cisco should just be himself, because Cisco is awesome, but it makes me concerned that she is the kind of person who gets really upset about pretty small things. I miss Gypsy. It was great to see Cisco again though, and he even gets his own plot! The many attempts at being Cisco were fun, and my GOD his hair is so fabulous! Its a true thing of beauty. Him bonding with Nora was sweet as well, and I liked the reminder of how hard things were for Cisco when he got his powers, and how awful the betrayal of Not Wells was for him. And the Electric Boogaloo joke was a funny meta joke, considering original comic book Cisco had these weird break dancing based powers

Heh, 52 times. Yeah, I see you, show. 

Loved Barry giving Nora the same talk that Jay gave him. Even though I doubt it will work on her, he did a good job at explaining the importance of their powers and what they are capable of. 

Irises reaction to Ralph's book was hilarious. "Yeah man, Imma go..."

Edited by tennisgurl
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Is this the second time Grant Gustin was missing for most of an episode? Is he off on another project?

Why is a beverage named after Zoom?

I was surprised Iris didn't shout a warning to Caitlin and Nora when she turned around and the dagger was coming.

In Kamilla's book don't workout or show up in workout clothes, don't be late, don't dress or have your hair styled better than her and don't pass her your business card. Just be yourself, call ahead with your order, and talk about DNA and genomes.

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Another complete shit episode. WTF is going on here? And you know what- with the way he's been sleepwalking through this season, Grant Gustin really, really doesn't deserve extra time off. That's bullshit. They should have docked his pay.

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29 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't like Camilla at all. I get the lesson was for Cisco to be himself, but she had bitch face the entire time on those 52 dates. I get it's because Cisco was trying too hard and he shouldn't have been, but Camilla showed how judgy she could be. So what happens if Cisco shows her something about himself that she doesn't like? She seemed rather quick to get out of there all of those times. Nope, go away, Camilla. Cisco deserves better.

 Thank goodness.  I was afraid I was the only one who didn't like her.    So the personas Cisco was showing up with wasn't what she was looking for.  Ok, fine.  But you don't have to look at him like he's something you want to scrape off your shoe and then just walk off in a huff.   It's called being polite.    

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I am pretty sure that Kamilla was upset/angry because Cicso was late which is why she was checking her watch and tried to play it off as if she hadn't been there long. It didn't help then he was behaving nothing like the guy she met at the bar.  

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40 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Because I just binged Russian Doll on Netflix this weekend, all I could think was "Gotta get up, gotta get out, gotta get home before the morning comes..." every time Nora got back to the start of the timeline.

Yay, not just me!

But honestly, that kinda crystalized my problem with this episode? Russian Doll, that is. Because with Russian Doll, this makes four times in as many months that I've seen some sort of variation on this concept, and unfortunately, this episode was the hands down weakest of the four. To be fair, Legends of Tomorrow benefited from having Zari as a cat, Russian Doll also had a cat, and The Good Place has a Janet.

Maybe Flash needed to add a cat to this episode.

Or a Janet.

But really, the biggest difference is with Nora. It took her 52 times to decide to tell Team Flash what was happening? I mean, yes, I'm trying to keep in mind that this was also for her 52 straight hours of not sleeping, so by the end there she was presumably dealing with massive sleep deprivation, but, Nora, this is what Team Flash does for a living. She's seen Iris, Ralph and Annoying Wells strategize; she's seen Cisco and Caitlin "science." Why not ask them to help after the fourth failed attempt? Even one line of "sometimes I ask for your help, and it still doesn't work," would have helped out a lot here.

With Camilla, what got me was that she was less creeped out that her date correctly guessed that of all of the available drinks at Jitters, she would pick decaf coffee, than by the idea that he might own his own company. Uh. The first is a lot freakier, Camilla! 

Edited by quarks
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I'm hanging on by the tiniest of threads, like I said before, and now I can't even bring myself to look at the screen.

Sigh. I don't see this getting better, given what happened on Arrow the other day and the implications that has for this show (let's just say it very likely negates an event that I was certain until yesterday would happen and now I'm positive will not).

The only question is whether I should leave now or at the end of the season. I can't imagine this season will end in a satisfactory way after all this shit. 

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36 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

Is this the second time Grant Gustin was missing for most of an episode? Is he off on another project?

Grant only appeared in the pipeline for the car stealing episode because he was off filming Elseworlds, the crossovers that keep on screwing over Flash fans. He missed most of this episode because the show gave him time off for his wedding. He should be back full-time after the two week hiatus.

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Should we start to consider changing "Damn it Barry" to "Damn it Nora" for the foreseeable future?

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4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Grant only appeared in the pipeline for the car stealing episode because he was off filming Elseworlds, the crossovers that keep on screwing over Flash fans. He missed most of this episode because the show gave him time off for his wedding. He should be back full-time after the two week hiatus.

Why exactly could he not have, you know, gotten married ON HIATUS IN THE FIRST PLACE? How douchey is it to ask to be written out of your own show?

I don't think he cares about the show anymore at all, tbh.

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9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Should we start to consider changing "Damn it Barry" to "Damn it Nora" for the foreseeable future?

It depends on whether Nora has learned her lesson following her experiences and after hearing Barry's repeat of Jay's lecture on the dangers of messing with the timeline.  Since she's still falling for Eobard's line of bull, she probably hasn't.

Edited by legaleagle53
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1 hour ago, shantown said:

And then when Chris Klein is down on the ground after being stabbed by his own dagger no one does anything! They just stare at him! Until he Super Mario jumps out of there! THEY’RE ALL SO DUMB SOMETIMES!

Seriously, why didn't Nora grab the dagger while Cicada was down ?

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Loved Barry giving Nora the same talk that Jay gave him. Even though I doubt it will work on her, he did a good job at explaining the importance of their powers and what they are capable of. 

Irises reaction to Ralph's book was hilarious. "Yeah man, Imma go..."

That's the weird thing -- everything Barry said to Nora not only applies to the 53 times she traveled back in time this episode, but to Nora coming back from 2049.
So why doesn't someone tell her to go back to the future and stay there ?

1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Why is a beverage named after Zoom?

And wasn't Ian's beverage a Cicada ? Which is even weirder.

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22 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And wasn't Ian's beverage a Cicada ? Which is even weirder.

That's a weird city.

Ian looked like he had serious issues going on that night. He needed something stronger to pick him up!

Edited by mxc90
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16 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Seriously, why didn't Nora grab the dagger while Cicada was down ?

Because the dagger was still active and she would have lost her powers if she touched it.  Since she was the strongest person there it would have possibly made the team vulnerable. What should have happened was Frost freezing the dagger and Cicada separately and taking both back to the tube to neutralize the powers of each. 

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Nora won't tell the truth until Sherloque who is back on her trail outs her deception. She is too desperate to believe Thawne's lies that he will help her save Barry. It is pretty tragic when you think about. By conspiring secretly with Thawne, all she is doing is helping him destroy Barry sooner than later and likely causing her own death or erasure from existence. I still don't understand what Thawne is up to trying to help defeat Cicada other than it must end up freeing him somehow.

I still wish they had done two main things different with Nora's story. The first is I wish that they had Thawne deceive her about his true identity. It is so insane that she would conspire with her father's worse enemy under any circumstance. The second, I wish they had her actually stuck in the past so it explains why Team Flash isn't insisting that she go back to the future.

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35 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And wasn't Ian's beverage a Cicada ? Which is even weirder.

Yeah, people in Central City must have a really dark sense of humor. Isn't that like cutsy hipster coffee houses in our world calling their drinks stuff like The Dahmer or a grande Manson with extra sugar? 

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The names of these drinks must be the writers' sense of humor, but Zoom killed cops. You would think there would be outrage and threats of boycotts if coffee shops named a beverage after him. 

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15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, people in Central City must have a really dark sense of humor. Isn't that like cutsy hipster coffee houses in our world calling their drinks stuff like The Dahmer or a grande Manson with extra sugar? 

I would think some people feel weird asking for a glass of OJ.

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Cisco: *grabs the wrong coffee cup*

Waitress who works for tips: "God damn men in this town, HOW CAN YOU BE SO DAMN STUPID? DO THE TWO COFFEE DRINKS LOOK ALIKE TO YOU MORON?!?"

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 If the Jitters hipsters want to complain about the men in Central City, they should really try dating in Star City.  

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43 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I still wish they had done two main things different with Nora's story. The first is I wish that they had Thawne deceive her about his true identity. It is so insane that she would conspire with her father's worse enemy under any circumstance. The second, I wish they had her actually stuck in the past so it explains why Team Flash isn't insisting that she go back to the future.

I agree. I would add write Nora so she does not act like a 16 year old or actually have her be a teenager. I might actually let some of her behavior and stupidity slide a bit more if she was a teenager. I really just want her gone.

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2 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Why is a beverage named after Zoom?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And wasn't Ian's beverage a Cicada ? Which is even weirder.

30 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, people in Central City must have a really dark sense of humor.

From the recent Batman #16  (I hate that they relaunched just about everything):   Welcome to Batburger;   Home of the Riddle-Me-Fish, the Two-Face Sandwich, and the Ivy Salad.   Would you like your fries Jokerized????     Bruce is not amused.

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"Hey guys, Cicada's been stabbed with his own dagger.  Should we slap some meta-cuffs on him?  Should Caitlin blast him with her powers?  How about she blasts him with her powers while Cisco opens a breach to the Pipeline?  I got it, we should stand around like idiots, and let Cicada escape."

Stop making Team Flash complete idiots.

Nora definitely screwed something up.  Every time except for the end, it was Ian getting something to drink, at the end it was Stefan.  She screwed something up in her Hedgehog Day loop.

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6 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I agree. I would add write Nora so she does not act like a 16 year old or actually have her be a teenager. I might actually let some of her behavior and stupidity slide a bit more if she was a teenager. I really just want her gone.

I go back and forth with Nora. I find her childishness, gullibility and mendacity annoying as hell. Also, for character that is likely to be gone at the end of the season or by the crisis, she too often eats the show. All of this makes me want her gone, but I do think that her presence has added an new and interesting dynamic to WestAllen and Team Flash. 

ETA: I enjoy Jessica Parker Kennedy as an actress and like her work a lot.

Edited by SimoneS
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I liked it. Love me some messy timeline stories. 

I especially love messy timeline stories that don't reboot anything. (No lie. That's not sarcasm.) Hopefully there's not too many ripples from this one-off. Although, I feel like Barry's Jay Garrick speech was more for the foreshadowing of how much Nora is gonna fuck up the future. 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am so not feeling Camilla. She just looked really pissed off the whole time, even for pretty minor stuff, and yeah Cisco should just be himself, because Cisco is awesome, but it makes me concerned that she is the kind of person who gets really upset about pretty small things. I miss Gypsy. It was great to see Cisco again though, and he even gets his own plot! The many attempts at being Cisco were fun, and my GOD his hair is so fabulous! Its a true thing of beauty. Him bonding with Nora was sweet as well, and I liked the reminder of how hard things were for Cisco when he got his powers, and how awful the betrayal of Not Wells was for him. And the Electric Boogaloo joke was a funny meta joke, considering original comic book Cisco had these weird break dancing based powers

Heh, 52 times. Yeah, I see you, show. 

Loved Barry giving Nora the same talk that Jay gave him. Even though I doubt it will work on her, he did a good job at explaining the importance of their powers and what they are capable of. 

Irises reaction to Ralph's book was hilarious. "Yeah man, Imma go..."

YAASSS to the bolded. I sat through the episode with extreme hair envy. (And yes to everything else that I pulled from your post too! Couldn't have written it better.)

The 52 times was a DC joke, right? I was going to say that at least they can make fun of themselves, but I feel like this was more at DC's expense. Definitely laughing at them and not with with. (On a side note, I still don't understand what is canon and what is not anymore.)

12 minutes ago, Twilight Man said:

From the recent Batman #16  (I hate that they relaunched just about everything):   Welcome to Batburger;   Home of the Riddle-Me-Fish, the Two-Face Sandwich, and the Ivy Salad.   Would you like your fries Jokerized????     Bruce is not amused.

Surprisingly, Jason LOVES him some Jokerized fries. So, so wrong. 

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I noticed that the director, Rachel Talalay, had a producer credit. She probably had some input into the story/script.

I guess having Barry be in the Speed Force is a pretty good reason for him to be gone and unreachable.

First time I’ve been really able to observe Cicada’s jacket; the back is designed to look like insect(cicada?) wings, nice!

I didn’t mind that this was a Nora-centric episode, but they really need to to show her making smarter choices, because it just makes her look dumber and dumber, when she shouldn't be. They should want us to root for her, and not only because she's the daughter of the leads.

I think this was the best episode for Cisco in a while. Besides Nora, he was the only one to get an arc. Took them long enough to remember that Cisco can vibe timelines. Also took them long enough to have a scene with just him and Nora. I’m glad he mentioned that Eobard killed him that one time — listen Nora! You can’t trust that dude!!

Also his ‘social media influencer’ hair was glorious! I still miss Gypsy, but I hope this thing with Kamilla and Cisco works out, even if it’s short-term. I just want Cisco to be happy.

Loved the little callbacks to previous characters and events. Ramon Industries! Jay’s time travel lecture with Barry!

Awww, Iris’ family photos in her cute office. Probably the only time we’re going to see Wally and Jenna. 😞

Poor Cecile/Danielle N. who was only here for a death scene.

I get that Nora wouldn’t want to tell anyone anything the first few times because she thought she could fix the situation herself, but after that she really should have just leveled with the team. However, I thought we would have seen a few more iterations of that hour. I wanted to see a few more of Cisco’s changes for his date, and other options that Nora tried.

I wish they had a Nora/Iris scene since Iris did notice that Nora was acting strangely. But I did like that she got to monologue to Cicada. Did not like that Cicada just walks flies away AGAIN. So they managed to stab him with his own dagger this time; there shouldn’t be any reason to let him get away next time. (But he will anyway.)

So I Nora reversed 53 times, plus when she came at the start of the season, PLUS the times she time traveled last season, so how many ripples is that?? Everyone lived today, but there’s got to be a consequence to ‘balance’ things, right?

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Nitpicks:

  • Who is the sicko at Jitters Corporate that’s naming drinks after murderous villains??
  • And when is Vibe getting his drink? COME ON!
  • How did Cicada know that Ralph was Elongated Man?
  • Nora, Cisco, and Ralph’s powers should have been negated every time they were with Cicada on that rooftop - like previous encounters.
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1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

Nora definitely screwed something up.  Every time except for the end, it was Ian getting something to drink, at the end it was Stefan.  She screwed something up in her Hedgehog Day loop.

Not necessarily, Ian got his coffee when Cisco went on his date before Cisco leaves to fight Cicada. Stefan got his coffee after Cisco fights Cicada and then (extremely late) goes on his date.

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The Legends' Waverider in a galaxy far away (or close by)

Sara: "Gideon, what in the hell is going on?"

Gideon: "Unsure, Captain.  It seems like there are a massive amount of time abbreviations at Central City in 2019."

Sara: "Great, Barry's fucking up the timeline, again!"

Ray:  "Actually, it might be his adult daughter, Nora.  She's originally from 2049, but she's hanging there now.  Cisco told me during our last Facetime chat."

Constantine: "Whatever, let those wankers sod off!  We've got other knobs to deal with!"

Mick (chugging beer): "Yeah, let Girlie Flash do her thing."

Zara: "Dammit, Mick!  What did I tell you about remarks like that?!"

Mick: "What?  I'm totally a womanist or whatever you call it.  Women Flashes can fuck up the timelines just as good as men can!"

Zara: ""Well, you're improving, I guess..."

Overall, it was an entertaining enough of a "Groundhog Day" type episode, but it seemed so far-fetch to me that Nora failed 52 times.  I mean, she knew which rooftop Cicada would eventually end up at, so did she never not try a different path: one in where he wouldn't have seen her coming?  Or better yet, why not just wait on the rooftop until he showed up with his intended victim, sucker punch and cuff him, and call it a day?  Or try something at either Ralph and Iris' office?  It just seemed kind of half-assed on her end.

While Cisco (yay, he's back!  Maybe he'll actually make it through five episode straight!) was being dumb with trying to be what he though Camilla wanted him to be, I didn't understand why she and the Jitters' waitresses acted like he was the worst of the worst, each time he grabbed the wrong coffee cup.  They were acting like he boasting about being a MRA, mocking #MeToo, or something.  Plus, in general, that would be a bad idea from a customer service perspective, because Cisco could have easily gotten them in trouble if he wanted to speak with a manager or file a complaint.  Granted, this is a company who has drinks named after murderous villains and serial killers, so they might not care about that aspect.  I'm sure the ones in Star City have such classy titles like "Dahrk Roast" and "Sugar Deathstroke."

I just want Sherloque to quit dicking around and finally expose Nora, because this storyline is so played out.

So, this episode was Barry-lite because of Grant Gustin's marriage/honeymoon?  Understandable, but between this and the recent Arrow episodes, it is a little frustrating out the main characters seem to be getting pushed aside for the new, annoying faces.

Edited by thuganomics85
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4 hours ago, Trini said:

So I Nora reversed 53 times, plus when she came at the start of the season, PLUS the times she time traveled last season, so how many ripples is that?? Everyone lived today, but there’s got to be a consequence to ‘balance’ things, right?

I noticed a complete lack of Time wraiths as well this episode.

How come Nora continues to get a pass by the Time wraiths considering all the time she spends in the past ?

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5 hours ago, Brinny said:

The 52 times was a DC joke, right? I was going to say that at least they can make fun of themselves, but I feel like this was more at DC's expense. Definitely laughing at them and not with with. (On a side note, I still don't understand what is canon and what is not anymore.)

Ah, I totally missed that one. Nicely done, show. 

4 hours ago, Trini said:
  • Nora, Cisco, and Ralph’s powers should have been negated every time they were with Cicada on that rooftop - like previous encounters.

I have given up on understanding how Cicada's powers work.

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7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The names of these drinks must be the writers' sense of humor, but Zoom killed cops. You would think there would be outrage and threats of boycotts if coffee shops named a beverage after him. 

And didn't he massacre the cops *at* Jitters. Among the other massacres/deaths that have happened there. 

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30 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

The names of these drinks must be the writers' sense of humor, but Zoom killed cops. You would think there would be outrage and threats of boycotts if coffee shops named a beverage after him. 

Sure, but since Jitters is the only coffee shop in CC they can do whatever they want.  Need for caffeine > moral outrage.

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Poor Cecile/Danielle N. who was only here for a death scene.

Actors typically get paid by the episode, right?  Especially if they're regulars?  Sign me up for a job where I can show up for a couple of hours, say nothing, and still get my full paycheck.

Speaking of death scenes, we never saw Iris die.  That's an improvement over season 3 when we kept seeing her get stabbed by Savitar at the beginning of every episode.

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18 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Actors typically get paid by the episode, right?  Especially if they're regulars?  Sign me up for a job where I can show up for a couple of hours, say nothing, and still get my full paycheck.

Regulars on tv shows have contracts that require that they get paid whether the show chooses to use them or not. If they are not available for some reason like they are doing another project, then they have to negotiate with the show.

Edited by SimoneS

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5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The Legends' Waverider in a galaxy far away (or close by)

Sara: "Gideon, what in the hell is going on?"

Gideon: "Unsure, Captain.  It seems like there are a massive amount of time abbreviations at Central City in 2019."

Sara: "Great, Barry's fucking up the timeline, again!"

Ray:  "Actually, it might be his adult daughter, Nora.  She's originally from 2049, but she's hanging there now.  Cisco told me during our last Facetime chat."

Constantine: "Whatever, let those wankers sod off!  We've got other knobs to deal with!"

Mick (chugging beer): "Yeah, let Girlie Flash do her thing."

Zara: "Dammit, Mick!  What did I tell you about remarks like that?!"

Mick: "What?  I'm totally a womanist or whatever you call it.  Women Flashes can fuck up the timelines just as good as men can!"

Zara: ""Well, you're improving, I guess..."

Love it!

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13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

So glad to see Cisco again. He is such a sweet character. At least, the time changes gave Cisco more chances to get his date right. He looked handsome. I love how long his hair is now.

It's too bad his date wasn't worth the effort.  He can do better. 

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8 hours ago, Trini said:

Did not like that Cicada just walks flies away AGAIN. So they managed to stab him with his own dagger this time; there shouldn’t be any reason to let him get away next time. (But he will anyway.)

I would like them to change it up just once; capture him and then have him escape because he has a power they didn't know about (until he is finally defeated).

Grant looked handsome. I like his wedding hair cut. 

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10 hours ago, Jediknight said:

"Hey guys, Cicada's been stabbed with his own dagger.  Should we slap some meta-cuffs on him?  Should Caitlin blast him with her powers?  How about she blasts him with her powers while Cisco opens a breach to the Pipeline?  I got it, we should stand around like idiots, and let Cicada escape."

Stop making Team Flash complete idiots.

It's like they had half a plan, which worked, but no follow through. But they had Iris gloat with, "Told ya". Too soon to gloat since he escaped.

Um.... Nora's running looked so, so fake this time. 

So, it was like "Flashtime", but ....bad, so very bad.

The plot did move a bit forward because we know that Grace knows what Cicada knows. This means that future Grace as Cicada would know the name Iris West-Allen. However, because Iris is a public figure in the future, Grace Cicada wouldn't go after Iris.  Iris would fear for Nora being outed as a meta, so yet another bit of evidence for suppressing Nora's powers since childhoold while Grace Cicada is alive and active.

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I like Barry's advice to Nora just before he leaves: "Just do what I've taught you to do.  Slow down and think clearly."  I guess that explains why Flash will stop several yards away from a bad guy and just stand there flat-footed while doing nothing; he slowed down and he's thinking clearly.  Too bad it takes so long.

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11 hours ago, Brinny said:

The many attempts at being Cisco were fun, and my GOD his hair

His hair was stunningly gorgeous when he was pretending to be an Influencer. The words, "What a luxurious mane of hair!" went through my mind, I swear.

I like Groundhog Day episodes.

No, I love Groundhog Day episodes! Time loops are my jam, okay? They're a surefire recipe for fun, wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans.

Cause and XS was not fun by any stretch of the imagination. It actually made time loops boring, and I didn't think that was possible.

I did like some things: I liked Barry's scenes, Cisco's final do-over date, because Carlos Valdes is adorableness personified, and I liked Cisco's talk with Nora.

Beyond that, this episode failed in almost every regard.

And, Jesus, all the stupid things that kept happening!

If Nora had time to avoid Cicada's dagger, she had time to push or super speed Killer Frost out of the way. Cicada's dagger is slower than a bullet, so why isn't Nora running the fucking Boston Marathon around it three times before it hits anybody?

And this,

15 hours ago, shantown said:

And then when Chris Klein is down on the ground after being stabbed by his own dagger no one does anything! They just stare at him! Until he Super Mario jumps out of there!

And this,

13 hours ago, rtms77 said:

What should have happened was Frost freezing the dagger and Cicada separately and taking both back to the tube to neutralize the powers of each.  

This episode should have been a season highlight, instead it flopped really, really hard.

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