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S02.E04: Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes

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Ed finds himself behind enemy lines when he crashlands on a mysterious planet; Kelly questions why Gordon wants to take the command test.

Airdate: Thursday, January 17, 2019

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That episode was about 95% ST:TNG. Even the comedy stuff was very much like something you'd see on an episode of the series.

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I really liked it. I was fooled about the Krill woman. Didn’t see that coming. It did feel NGy but that’s ok with me.

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I was fooled too even though that type of story has been done before.  Beforehand I was wondering how well the relationship between the both of them would go on the ship and how everyone else would deal with it long term.  I guess that’s not an issue now!

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Are those the cliffs outside LA that were in the original Trek?

Nice insight by Ed about how some groups ramp up the xenophobia.

The Billy Joel song was strangely effective.

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I like rebel Ed.  And the Billy Joel song was kinda perfect at the end.  Plus I liked Kelly's point to Gordon at the end about what command decisions are, and how thoughtful he looked after she said it.  It would be so easy for these characters to be one-dimensional, but they're not.

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Just now, marinw said:

Are those the cliffs outside LA that were in the original Trek?

Ha! I was totally thinking about the Gorn! 

Anyway, I enjoyed this episode much more than last week's. The Krill have always been interesting when they're on. 

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I was not expecting the girlfriend to be a spy. I'm not sure how that would've worked, either, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief.

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I notice Michaela McManus was listed as "uncredited" for S2E01 in IMDB. It probably would have been a giveaway (not to me, but someone) if she was in the credits because she was Teleya last season.

Also, Ed brought up two scifi TV tropes. 1. Teleya somehow fit in perfectly as a human being with what must be limited and blasphemous information. 2. That aliens do not use contractions, making their speech seem alien and exotic.

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See everyone, Discovery is real Star Trek. The Orville is ripping it off! Because there's no way Lieutenant Tyler is secretly an alien enemy that we've seen before shows up on both shows by coincidence.  

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2 minutes ago, vibeology said:

See everyone, Discovery is real Star Trek. The Orville is ripping it off! Because there's no way Lieutenant Tyler is secretly an alien enemy that we've seen before shows up on both shows by coincidence.  

Or maybe TNG / DS9 did the alien face surgery thing twice a season.

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In his command simulation, Gordon tried to pull the Corbomite Maneuver gambit. Nice throwback to tthe TOS episode of the same name. 

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25 minutes ago, ketose said:

I notice Michaela McManus was listed as "uncredited" for S2E01 in IMDB. It probably would have been a giveaway (not to me, but someone) if she was in the credits because she was Teleya last season.

Also, Ed brought up two scifi TV tropes. 1. Teleya somehow fit in perfectly as a human being with what must be limited and blasphemous information. 2. That aliens do not use contractions, making their speech seem alien and exotic.

I knew she was the Krill last time but i thought she was just so good Seth decided to cast her as a full member.

When the krill appeared in this episode. I was hoping she'd get the honor of playing two different characters. Maybe even have Teleya use her to get back at Ed. Since she's obviously still pissed at him. 

 

Unfortunately they decided to simply make them the same character. 

Edited by The Kings Foot
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Although there were clearly important political themes in this episode, it felt to me even more overwhelmingly like a romantic ode than last week's. Combined with Seth saying in a late night talk show that he was spending Christmas alone (true?), it seems there's some painful relationship transition going on—or at least was when these episodes were spun out. 

Here's lyrics from The King and I : genius.com/Richard-rodgers-a-puzzlement-lyrics

And here's the Billy Joel: genius.com/Billy-joel-shes-always-a-woman-lyrics

At one point I was humming genius.com/Dionne-warwick-what-the-world-needs-now-lyrics

So Teleya goes for Harrison Ford. Ouch. But Seth did manage to get some Indiana Jones moves in.

I kept wondering if all the blooming bird of paradise flowers were symbolic. Probably just set dressing, but they are my dying mother's favorite.

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"OMG, we're in trouble." Obvious observation is obvious, Ed.

So, the enemy of his enemy is not Ed's friend.

Interesting to me how the show gave a pass to the sexual assault aspect of Ed's relationship with "Janel." He never consented to sex with Teleya. By the end he'd just convinced himself that deep down inside Teleya is "Janel." Okay, Seth.

This was one of my least favorite episodes though I appreciated the commentary on how xenophobia usually comes from fear that may not be overblown and unjustified.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu · Reason: decided against editing the post but I didn't mean to sound like I was okay with xenophobia. I think it usually is in fact overblown and unjustified, due more to ignorance than fear..
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I'm sure I won't get the wording exact, but I laughed when Ed said, "I liked you a lot better when you used contractions."

I have a soft spot for 1977 - 1981 Billy Joel, so those two songs hit just right for me.

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Really good episode.  I didn't see the Janel being a Krill spy either.

Those mountains definitely looked like the ones that were seen in both Star Trek and Star Trek The Next Generation but I'm pretty sure that they weren't.

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12 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Interesting to me how the show gave a pass to the sexual assault aspect of Ed's relationship with "Janel." He never consented to sex with Teleya. By the end he'd just convinced himself that deep down inside Teleya is "Janel." Okay, Seth

Maybe that's why Seth/Ed avoided giving Gordon a straight answer when asked if he and Janel were "doing it." The vague reply left open (IMO) the possibility that they hadn't consumated the relationship, which in turn avoids the issue of rape—which has been hashed out in social media a lot regarding scifi tropes like body swapping—even before #MeToo, like on Stargate Universe.

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I'd heard theories about Janelle really being Telaya, so it wasn't a huge shock to me when it was revealed, but it still worked really well. Ed's willingness to keep his word and get Talaya off the planet and then allowing her to go back to the Krill show the kind of person and captain he is, and I like how that parallels Malloy's story as he sees what it takes to be a leader. 

Even though Telaya said Ed letting her leave wouldn't change anything, she did still take the music he offered her, which is a good sign and confirms Ed's belief that there's something of "Janelle" in her. Personally, I think it'd be interesting to have a storyline where the Krill and the Union negotiate some kind of peace treaty. Not overnight, but maybe in the (far future) series finale or something. 

Love the ending with Billy Joel playing. Always a good musical choice. 

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I was so glad Ed's girlfriend turned out to be a spy. Much more interesting, great continuity. But mostly because the cartographer didn't seem nearly stressed enough when the Krill appeared. I was thinking she wasn't a very good actress, it was so noticeable. But she is a good actress, and it made sense in hindsight.

Also very glad a new security officer, a female at that, is arriving next week. Nose trunk guy is good for a laugh, but I don't want him on the permanent bridge crew. 

This show is so much fun. Much better when they don't pepper it with off-color jokes for a cheap laugh. I got a kick out of the pilot seeing... something... In the ink blots, just the right tone of joke. There's lots of potential here for world-building (universe building) as the show continues. 

Edited by Andromeda
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1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

So Teleya goes for Harrison Ford. Ouch. But Seth did manage to get some Indiana Jones moves in.

No, she likes Belloq, the archeologist working for the Nazis (Paul Freeman) and sees him as the hero. 

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23 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

the cartographer didn't seem nearly stressed enough when the Krill appeared. I was thinking she wasn't a very good actress, it was so noticeable. But she is a good actress, and it made sense in hindsight.

Seriously. Even with the prosthetic face makeup. 

 

16 minutes ago, Andromeda said:
2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So Teleya goes for Harrison Ford. Ouch. But Seth did manage to get some Indiana Jones moves in.

No, she likes Belloq, the archeologist working for the Nazis (Paul Freeman) and sees him as the hero. 

Oops. I must've been projecting. ;-)

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Should I be concerned that I wasn't able to understand how when Ed turned on the transmitter, two seconds later the signal had traveled 2.6 light years?

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3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Should I be concerned that I wasn't able to understand how when Ed turned on the transmitter, two seconds later the signal had traveled 2.6 light years?

Tachyons, the "a wizard did it" of Sci-fi.

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As a long time night nurse, I laughed at Ed's comment that the sweaty security guy was dressed ok for night shift. It was a toss away but that keeps me engaged to this show. 

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7 hours ago, Andromeda said:

This show is so much fun. Much better when they don't pepper it with off-color jokes for a cheap laugh. I got a kick out of the pilot seeing... something... In the ink blots, just the right tone of joke. There's lots of potential here for world-building (universe building) as the show continues. 

Seth live-tweeted during the broadcast last night, and he summed up perfectly what his concept of The Orville is and always has been:  "A sci-fi drama cake with comedy frosting."

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I like the character driven stories, it feels they are really creating well rounded chaeacters that will eventually be able to support more complex plots withoit sounding formulaic. 

Telya will show up again, I’m sure. 

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I like that Ed's view that, enemy or not,  he wasn't just going to let Telaya die, baffled her. Because it should have. 

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10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

"OMG, we're in trouble." Obvious observation is obvious, Ed.

So, the enemy of his enemy is not Ed's friend.

Interesting to me how the show gave a pass to the sexual assault aspect of Ed's relationship with "Janel." He never consented to sex with Teleya. By the end he'd just convinced himself that deep down inside Teleya is "Janel." Okay, Seth.

This was one of my least favorite episodes though I appreciated the commentary on how xenophobia usually comes from fear that may not be overblown and unjustified.

Well when he was posing as a Krill there was a connection between him and Telaya so its not unreasonable for him to wonder how much she was acting. 

 

Plus she baldly stated the she switched careers and volunteered for painful surgery just to get back at him. 

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10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe that's why Seth/Ed avoided giving Gordon a straight answer when asked if he and Janel were "doing it." The vague reply left open (IMO) the possibility that they hadn't consumated the relationship, which in turn avoids the issue of rape—which has been hashed out in social media a lot regarding scifi tropes like body swapping—even before #MeToo, like on Stargate Universe.

Which then inverted when Telaya told Mercer to lie on his side as he snored while sleeping on his back, meaning that they had been literally sleeping (not in the sense of sexual intercourse) together. Now, what kind of man have the chance to sleep with Michaela McManus and do not have sex with her?

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I loved the fact that they were watching "The King and I." Its one of my favorite musicals (despite Yul Brynner's lack of real singing talent. Along with Billy Joel, it was an enjoyable episode. I was wondering about those rocks and whether they'd been used in Star Trek.

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10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe that's why Seth/Ed avoided giving Gordon a straight answer when asked if he and Janel were "doing it." The vague reply left open (IMO) the possibility that they hadn't consumated the relationship, which in turn avoids the issue of rape—which has been hashed out in social media a lot regarding scifi tropes like body swapping—even before #MeToo, like on Stargate Universe.

Who was supposed to be the victim the Captain? I  guess the spy using the honey trap can be accused because she lied her way into a relationship. The religious fanatic society breaking their faith's normal behavior and perhaps being rewarded by their gods because of the greater good strikes real close to home.

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19 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

Yul Brynner's lack of real singing talent

Yul Brynner was hot! As I child and teen I admired him in The Ten Commandments

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Semi-random thoughts:

Because someone in one of the forums had posted that the actress for Janel and Telaya was the same person, I was able to guess that "Janel" was really an undercover Telaya when the Krill tried torturing her. So thanks for the head's up, whoever it was.

The Krill's plan was puzzling. It would seem to include

1. Have Telaya undergo surgery to pass as human, as well as some level of cultural and other preparation

2. Create a cover identity for her that would potentially allow her to seduce Ed (which means that there would have to be some level of investigation into his personal background) and that would survive at least a superficial background check

3. Arrange for Telaya to get assigned to the Orville and have her serve on board the ship for some time -- weeks if not months

4. Make a move on Ed (and hope that he's a) interested b) available c) not hung up on Kelly)

5. Await an opportunity for Telaya to leverage her closeness to Ed to smuggle secrets or something

I was puzzled by why Ed remained where they were when the shuttle was cloaked. Isn't the whole point of a cloak to disappear without the enemy being able to track them? I mean, if they had tried to evade them, we wouldn't have gotten what has to be a nod to the Tholian Web. But still...

Seems like standard issue on a Krill escape pod should be the helmets that allow them to walk around in daylight.

I am operating under the assumption that Telaya was just trolling Ed when she said she liked Raiders because of Belloq.

So since the divorce, Ed has dated three people -- Priya, Darulio and now Janel/Telaya. All three at least on some level lied to him from jump street, and there's an argument to be made for the last two having been deceptive to the point where it could be construed as sexual assault. Seems like he should book some counseling time with Dr. Finn, stat.

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2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:
12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe that's why Seth/Ed avoided giving Gordon a straight answer when asked if he and Janel were "doing it." The vague reply left open (IMO) the possibility that they hadn't consumated the relationship, which in turn avoids the issue of rape—which has been hashed out in social media a lot regarding scifi tropes like body swapping—even before #MeToo, like on Stargate Universe.

Which then inverted when Telaya told Mercer to lie on his side as he snored while sleeping on his back, meaning that they had been literally sleeping (not in the sense of sexual intercourse) together. Now, what kind of man have the chance to sleep with Michaela McManus and do not have sex with her?

Some things/people are worth waiting for?

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33 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Krill's plan was puzzling.

Yes. There were many, many things that could have easily caused her plan to fail.

Also, how would the Krill, being so xenophobic towards Earthlings, mange to get all the information needed to fake a believable background history for Telaya? And with futuristic technology, how  could an Orville crew-member not get a security check that included DNA scans?  
The Orville story lines require  a lot of suspension of disbelief. 

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1 minute ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Yes. There were many, many things that could have easily caused her plan to fail.

Also, how would the Krill, being so xenophobic towards Earthlings, mange to get all the information needed to fake a believable background history for Telaya? And with futuristic technology, how  could an Orville crew-member not get a security check that included DNA scans?  
The Orville story lines require  a lot of suspension of disbelief. 

I could buy that as a transparent democracy, some base level info about life in the Planetary Union would be accessible to anyone who wanted to look for it. I'll even fanwank that as part of the masquerade, Telaya could have a way to beat a DNA scan. 

What is harder to buy is that with religion being such an integral part of Krill life, with that religion holding that all non-Krill life is unimportant/inferior and with Telaya specifically having a grudge against Ed for the death of her brother, that she could maintain the pretense of being Janel for at a minimum weeks without the mask slipping.

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In his command simulation, Gordon tried to pull the Corbomite Maneuver gambit.

I loved both that he tried it, and that it did not work.

There was a lot of clever detail.  When Ed was asked if the command codes were real, I wonder if the pause before answering was to think up a plausible lie.

I also liked how the show used tropes (Faster-than-ship communication, face-swapping, aliens that do not use contractions, and cloaking/invisibility tech) but also does its own things with them.  Venting the plasma was an almost-plausible way to find a hidden ship, but I thought something was up--because how would they have known to do that?

Also, the non-Krill other aliens, who might end up joining the Planetary Union, have potential.

That was amazing use of some lines from "She's Always a Woman To Me", which, heh, has a contraction in the title.

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6 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

Well when he was posing as a Krill there was a connection between him and Telaya so its not unreasonable for him to wonder how much she was acting. 

 

Plus she baldly stated the she switched careers and volunteered for painful surgery just to get back at him. 

Loved the episode. Janel being Telaya was a total surprise although I suspected something was up when an experienced Cartographer directed the shuttle to a Krill Squad’s hunting grounds.

I like the chemistry between Ed and Telaya and would not be surprised, and would like to see them actually have an inter species love affair in the future. Although she pretends otherwise, I feel like she has a soft spot for Ed and her reasoning of “Revenge” is probably more like just a desire to be near him again and she’s repressing that feeling.  I would gather that the higher ups are outraged that Ed let Telaya go, considering she was a recipient of a complicated process to pass as human successfully and that kind of process should be of interest to any security-minded individual.

I also liked the lack of dialogue on the bridge at the end as the bridge crew commiserated with the Captain on his loss of a romantic friend.

As for Gordon, I thought he was pulling a prank on Claire with regards to that Rorschach test and was pretending to see horror in the images where there was none. Claire’s reaction by asking more seriously WTF he was seeing was comical.

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5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

What is harder to buy is that with religion being such an integral part of Krill life, with that religion holding that all non-Krill life is unimportant/inferior and with Telaya specifically having a grudge against Ed for the death of her brother, that she could maintain the pretense of being Janel for at a minimum weeks without the mask slipping.

or that Telaya could maintain the human identity to that level without psychologically adopting some human morés--and maybe in a future episode she will have a less Krill-centric perspective--but if she does, I suspect Ed's compassion/forgiveness/whatever will be credited rather than her day-to-day experiences of living as a human.

 

5 hours ago, marketdoctor said:

That was amazing use of some lines from "She's Always a Woman To Me", which, heh, has a contraction in the title.

Hah! Good catch.

 

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

As for Gordon, I thought he was pulling a prank on Claire with regards to that Rorschach test and was pretending to see horror in the images where there was none. Claire’s reaction by asking more seriously WTF he was seeing was comical.

I accepted Gordon's reaction to the Rorschach's at face value, and I think it might diminish the humorous aspects to have him faking it--but maybe not.

Edited by shapeshifter
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Hated almost everything about this episode, starting with Ed and his relationship. Cliched that Kelly knew. New girlfriend never seemed emotional about anything. First hint she was someone else. Is this why Alara is gone? Yuck.

I continue to believe that casting Seth M as the lead was a mistake. He just can’t resist making Ed the smartest person on the screen. 

Krill just buzz around the Union?

The Krill torture was very cartoony. And as soon as they did it I guessed Janelle was Krill. 

BTW, so fake Janelle creates a new persona in the union how long ago? And fooled everyone to get to Ed? How long did that take? And no one was concerned with what secrets she could have learned? 

The “action” was really more Lost in Space than TNG. And he really should have given her movies, not Billy Joel. What a barf inducing ending. 

Overall a disappointing low for Orville. Frustrating because this show usually aims higher. And the timing of the commercial breaks was just bizarre. 

Only Commander Grayson held her own. 

Edited by Ottis
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b-sound.jpg

I really don't know what to make of this.

On one hand, this was a slow, plodding episode that just...trudged along, painfully so at times.

The Krill, too, were their usual one-dimensional selves...and something about the Lt. Tyler/Teleya reveal just felt off.

...but then, towards the end...I don't know if it was just Mercer manipulating Teleya or if there were some real feelings there, but when Ed was going on about how Tyler was somehow inside Teleya and that their relationship had to have something that was real...there was some real magic between the two, and I felt there was some humanity that Teleya tried hard to suppress but couldn't.

I always think The Orville does characters better than most- if not all- shows on TV because they always seem to find the simplest and subtlest of ways to add layers to their characters. Tonight was no different. Not just with Teleya, but with Gordon and his command ambitions. The show didn't just rest with "Gordon learning that being in command requires tough decisions", you also got, through Gordon's admission that girl hunting was his true motivation and Kelly's reassurance that he truly is a charming, cool guy, that Gordon's got a lot of self-doubt. It allows me to look at Gordon's confidence in a new way- arrogance isn't what drives it, but rather, Gordon's confidence is a way for him to hide his sometimes crippling insecurities. 

So much in so few lines. I really don't know how Seth McFarlane does it, but it's a true joy to behold.

It's enough for me to give this episode the benefit of the doubt. As long as the characters click, this show will always click.

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41 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I always think The Orville does characters better than most- if not all- shows on TV because they always seem to find the simplest and subtlest of ways to add layers to their characters. Tonight was no different. Not just with Teleya, but with Gordon and his command ambitions. The show didn't just rest with "Gordon learning that being in command requires tough decisions", you also got, through Gordon's admission that girl hunting was his true motivation and Kelly's reassurance that he truly is a charming, cool guy, that Gordon's got a lot of self-doubt. It allows me to look at Gordon's confidence in a new way- arrogance isn't what drives it, but rather, Gordon's confidence is a way for him to hide his sometimes crippling insecurities. 

It was Gordon's thoughtful expression after Kelly set him straight about what command is all about that makes me think that he may actually be ready for command someday once he starts pursuing that career path for the right reasons. He really seemed to get what Kelly was telling him about the responsibilities of command and the hard decisions that commanders often have to make. He also seemed to get what she told him about his not needing to be a commander to be popular with the ladies.  All he really has to do is be himself and not try so hard to impress.

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:44 PM, DrScottie said:

In his command simulation, Gordon tried to pull the Corbomite Maneuver gambit. Nice throwback to tthe TOS episode of the same name. 

I also loved that.  

I'm also a fan of The King and I, so that was nice to see.  In fact, I had actually quoted that movie to my girlfriend earlier in the evening.

I'm not a huge fan of Billy Joel, but there's nothing wrong with him.  Those songs fit in very well in the episode.  It's amazing how popular 20th century pop is in this future.  I don't think that's a far fetched idea, by the way.

I liked Mercer's ploy to let Telaya go.  Despite her objections, it did seemed to have an effect on her.  Hopefully it will pay off for Krill/Union relations in the future.  Peace accords often begin with two people talking, Mercer did a nice job of diplomacy.  He must have felt pretty foolish after announcing his new relationship though.

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9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I liked Mercer's ploy to let Telaya go.  Despite her objections, it did seemed to have an effect on her.  Hopefully it will pay off for Krill/Union relations in the future.  Peace accords often begin with two people talking, Mercer did a nice job of diplomacy.  He must have felt pretty foolish after announcing his new relationship though.

It's not the first time he's been burned like that, though. Pria did quite a number on him before he finally saw her for what she was, and he still hasn't completely forgiven Kelly for cheating on him, either, even though he's tried to move past it and his lingering feelings for her.  The wonder is that he's not even more paranoid and cynical about the women he meets given how many times he's been burned by them after starting to develop feelings for them.

Edited by legaleagle53
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22 hours ago, Andromeda said:

I was so glad Ed's girlfriend turned out to be a spy. Much more interesting, great continuity. But mostly because the cartographer didn't seem nearly stressed enough when the Krill appeared. I was thinking she wasn't a very good actress, it was so noticeable. But she is a good actress, and it made sense in hindsight.

I got a kick out of the pilot seeing... something... In the ink blots, just the right tone of joke. There's lots of potential here for world-building (universe building) as the show continues. 

Gordon's increasing horror at the holo-Rorscachs totally cracked me up. Part of me wants to know what he saw, while the bigger part thinks not knowing is way funnier.

I don't usually catch the plot twists (didn't suspect the "new neighbors" last week), but when Mercer said let's wait out the day in a cave, I swear my first thought was "but this is an unknown planet! What if one 'day' is like, an Earth-month?!?" And thank Avis that Mercer's gf was a Krill, because damn, (I at first thought) that was some bad acting! When they were watching the movie, her bland and nonchalant demeanor when getting tractor-beamed in, and the awful "ow! ow!" reaction to the Krill zapper - wouldn't a human be literally be pissing his/her pants and likely passed out with head lolling back under such pain? I was less surprised by the reveal than relieved.

Loved the Corbomite Maneuver and red rock topography shout-outs. I'm not as familiar with the rest of the Trek universe, but TOS is my jam. And whether or not they actually did the downstairs deed, you can't get any Kirk-ier than a starship captain romancing every fine-ass alien species. I'm in for a future reunion with Mercer and Telaya.

Finally, Bortus is now my spirit animal. "He wears.... sandals." "He will fail."

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1 minute ago, Dewey Decimate said:

And thank Avis

Was I the only one snerking every time the Krill invoked the name of their god, Hertz Avis? It seemed even funnier than last season because they were being so casual about it.

 

2 minutes ago, Dewey Decimate said:

you can't get any Kirk-ier than a starship captain romancing every fine-ass alien species.

My thoughts exactly.

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22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Was I the only one snerking every time the Krill invoked the name of their god, Hertz Avis? It seemed even funnier than last season because they were being so casual about it.

Shoot, I'm still laughing about the ship being named the Orville.

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When the new enemy showed up, did anyone else think, “They are being attacked by Orcs.” I’m not complaining. They just reminded me of Orcs.

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:03 PM, ketose said:

That episode was about 95% ST:TNG. Even the comedy stuff was very much like something you'd see on an episode of the series.

It should, because it was written by Brannon Braga, who wrote a lot of TNG episodes.  I can only imagine he's having great fun writing for this.  It's at times a little predictable and clunky, but I see a little tongue-in-cheek going on in the writing.

26 minutes ago, Meushell said:

When the new enemy showed up, did anyone else think, “They are being attacked by Orcs.” I’m not complaining. They just reminded me of Orcs.

I thought they were being attacked by the winged monkeys from "The Wizard of Oz".

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