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kariyaki

S12.E12: The Propagation Proposition

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Penny's ex-boyfriend, Zack, learns that he is infertile, so he asks Leonard for help; Raj attempts to mend things with his ex-fiancée, Anu.

Airdate: Thursday, January 10, 2019

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Leonard, are you sure you want to inflict parents that stupid on a child? I already feel sorry for that kid, and it hasn’t even been created in a petrie dish yet.

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Wait when does Chuck write the vanity cards?  I’m assuming tonight’s was referencing his Golden Globes win but that was just four days ago.

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It was odd to me that Sheldon had to point out to Leonard that he didn't seem to be thinking about how it would feel to father a child in which he wouldn't be the parent.  That would be the biggest issue if I was in that situation.  Actually, I'm surprised that Leonard was seriously thinking about taking them up on their offer in the first place.  My response?  WTF? Followed by a "no thanks."  

That was a cute scene between Raj & Anu at the end.  

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13 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:
1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Leonard, are you sure you want to inflict parents that stupid on a child? I already feel sorry for that kid, and it hasn’t even been created in a petrie dish yet.

I don't feel sorry for the kid. The kid is going to have two parents who will love him/her and have the means to provide for him/her. I think that matters far more than thier IQ score. 

What about when they repeatedly bump the kid's head while going down the boat stairs with him to change his diaper (just one example of what can go wrong)?

And, seriously, I didn't need Sheldon to point out that Leonard has heritable illnesses, like asthma and food allergies--not to mention extreme nearsightedness (my kids and I have all of these shortcomings, so I get to point them out). Plus, in the U.S. height is a determinate of success for men--okay, admittedly I should have selected fathers for my kids not based on them being taller than anyone in my family.

And, is niceness passed on through ones genes???

And, furthermore, is Leonard really going to be okay with them parenting his offspring? How will that work? Will he never see them again? Or what? 

Were all the writers and producers sick with the flu when they okayed this script?

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Those people are walking Darwin awards. I really would worry that they’d accidentally drop the infant over the side of the boat.

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I love the direction they are going with Raj and Anu. I can’t wait to see how it plays out. 

32 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I don't feel sorry for the kid. The kid is going to have two parents who will love him/her and have the means to provide for him/her. I think that matters far more than thier IQ score. 

It actually makes sense to me that Leonard would value kindness over intelligence in this instance. He knows better than anyone a high IQ does not mean someone will be a good parent.

I would feel bad for the kid because they would probably end up being the grownup of the family. 

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Did I miss something in a previous episode where Penny said that she didn't want to have kids?

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5 minutes ago, AEMom said:

Did I miss something in a previous episode where Penny said that she didn't want to have kids?

Yes, it was in the 3rd episode of the season (The Procreation Calculation). 

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I loved the Love Actually cards move by Raj. Date 1 should be Anu watching it. 

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11 minutes ago, Dani said:

Yes, it was in the 3rd episode of the season (The Procreation Calculation). 

I must be getting old because I have no recollection of this. Thanks for bringing me up to speed. 

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No, Raj's father, Raj is not a good man. He's an insecure, insensitive d-bag. I thought the arranged marriage story had potential, but it just fell victim to Raj's usual douchebaggery.

I don't get the whole concept of a modern arranged marriage anyway, especially if they have the right of refusal. Why bother to arrange a marriage then? I didn't understand Anu's and Raj's accusations at each other that they were looking for the "easy" way.  She admitted the reason she went for an arranged marriage was that she was tired of dating, and an arranged marriage bypassed those steps. 

I thought the only likable people in this episode were Zach, his wife, and Leonard. I think Zach chose Leonard as the father because he likes Leonard and thinks he's nice. I think folks are taking this sitcom plot entirely too seriously. If Leonard's "health issues" preclude him passing along his genes, should he be sterilized so he and Penny don't accidentally have a baby? 

And speaking of babies, it annoyed me all over again that Penny unilaterally decided they wouldn't have a family.

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I really hate reading Raj's girlfriend's name written as a possessive.

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22 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

And speaking of babies, it annoyed me all over again that Penny unilaterally decided they wouldn't have a family.

Remember, in this universe Penny is the hottest hottie that ever hotted.  Leonard is so lucky to have her.  Based on that, she gets to call the shots.  Seriously though, I've been watching a lot of the old episodes lately.  In the final analysis, Penny, while not unattractive, is probably just slightly above average in looks.  (Yes, mileage does vary)  That makes Lenny's ongoing insecurity about her all the more ridiculous.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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16 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Remember, in this universe Penny is the hottest hottie that ever hotted.  Leonard is so lucky to have her.  Based on that, she gets to call the shots.  Seriously though, I've been watching a lot of the old episodes lately.  In the final analysis, Penny, while not unattractive, is probably just slightly above average in looks.  (Yes, mileage does vary)  That makes Lenny's ongoing insecurity about her all the more ridiculous.

That reminds me that I did not like the return of Amy’s inappropriate comments about how hot Penny is. 

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This show is a perfect example of a sitcom staying around past it's natural expiration date.  BBT was lots of fun when it started and somewhere along the way it became something entirely different.  It isn't funny anymore and mostly the attempted humor is pointed and mean spirited.  The characters (Who I originally found engaging) are unlikable and barely seem able to tolerate each other, even the ones that are married to each other.   I'm not sure if this is an intentional move by the writers or some failure on their part but either way, it's becoming a struggle to watch at all.

It's a shame, really.  I want to stay with it out of a simple desire to finish the show's journey but they are not making it easy.

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I think this is a whole setup to changing Penny's mind about kids in a really silly and stupid way.

If Leonard potentially donating makes Penny change her mind about kids so they agree to try and Leonard ditches helping Zack and his wife then some part of me will always think deep down does she really wants kids or is she just doing it to save her relationship with Leonard?

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I really hate when shows think that dumbing characters down beyond all reason is hilarious. Zack was never the brightest bulb, but he was aware enough to realize when Leonard, Sheldon, Howard, and Raj were making fun of him. Now he's too stupid to duck to avoid hitting his head. It's such lazy writing.

I'm glad Raj and Anu decided to call off the wedding and just date. This was the most I've liked Raj in a long time.

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4 hours ago, Edmond83 said:

I think this is a whole setup to changing Penny's mind about kids in a really silly and stupid way.

If Leonard potentially donating makes Penny change her mind about kids so they agree to try and Leonard ditches helping Zack and his wife then some part of me will always think deep down does she really wants kids or is she just doing it to save her relationship with Leonard?

Oy, now I'm thinking that, even worse, they will trade Leonard's sperm for Zach's wife being a surrogate for a baby of their own.

And/Or: More likely it will then come out that the real reason Penny doesn't want to get pregnant is because she's afraid Leonard won't adore her anymore with a post-baby body—which is a terrible rationale, because what about the potentially even bigger effects of aging?

Edited by shapeshifter
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Penny and Leonard must love each other a WHOLE lot because they really have nothing in common.

When Penny came home and Leonard was so excited about his D&D game she could not have been less interested, but did her best to try to mask it, and was not successful.  

Penny and Leonard are great friends.  Spouses?  Eh.

I really still like both of them as characters, just not as a pair.  

Edited by mojoween
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Stupid storyline.

I really thought the whole storyline was to force Penny into rethinking about having a child with Leonard.  Not to agree that Leonard should be a sperm donor.

If Zack is so rich, they can get the creme de la creme of sperm at some sperm back. They don't need Leonard.

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1 hour ago, Badsamaritan said:

For a hot second, when Penny went into the other room and came back with the cup, I thought she was going to bring back a positive pregnancy test she'd already taken. 

I thought the same thing! 

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2 hours ago, greekmom said:

If Zack is so rich, they can get the creme de la creme of sperm at some sperm back. They don't need Leonard.

If Zach and his wife are as dim as they were portrayed, they aren't going to be rich for long. Unless a lawyer set up some kind of trust for them (and how much money would they realistically get from half the profits of selling a menu company?) they are going to blow through that fortune. A fool and his money are soon parted. Zach, while a nice guy, reminds me of those lottery winners who are dead broke within 5 years. What happens to the kid then?

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12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

What about when they repeatedly bump the kid's head while going down the boat stairs with him to change his diaper (just one example of what can go wrong)?

And, seriously, I didn't need Sheldon to point out that Leonard has heritable illnesses, like asthma and food allergies--not to mention extreme nearsightedness (my kids and I have all of these shortcomings, so I get to point them out). Plus, in the U.S. height is a determinate of success for men--okay, admittedly I should have selected fathers for my kids not based on them being taller than anyone in my family.

And, is niceness passed on through ones genes???

And, furthermore, is Leonard really going to be okay with them parenting his offspring? How will that work? Will he never see them again? Or what? 

Were all the writers and producers sick with the flu when they okayed this script?

Totally agree.

It's like when did stupid people raising kids become funny?  

Haley and Dylan on Modern Family, too. Sure, we all learn how to take care of kids,  but most of us in the middle of the Bell Curve have a modicum of common sense and foresight. 

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11 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

No, Raj's father, Raj is not a good man. He's an insecure, insensitive d-bag. I thought the arranged marriage story had potential, but it just fell victim to Raj's usual douchebaggery.

I don't get the whole concept of a modern arranged marriage anyway, especially if they have the right of refusal. Why bother to arrange a marriage then? I didn't understand Anu's and Raj's accusations at each other that they were looking for the "easy" way.  She admitted the reason she went for an arranged marriage was that she was tired of dating, and an arranged marriage bypassed those steps. 

I thought the only likable people in this episode were Zach, his wife, and Leonard. I think Zach chose Leonard as the father because he likes Leonard and thinks he's nice. I think folks are taking this sitcom plot entirely too seriously. If Leonard's "health issues" preclude him passing along his genes, should he be sterilized so he and Penny don't accidentally have a baby? 

And speaking of babies, it annoyed me all over again that Penny unilaterally decided they wouldn't have a family.

Do you really want someone who doesn’t want kids to be a mother ?

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I really hate reading Raj's girlfriend's name written as a possessive.

This is funnier than anything in the episode.

I will say this about Raj and Anu's  (had to do it) storyline (and actually their relationship) is that it makes Raj seem like even less of an asshole. She makes him seem kinder and more human.

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For a hot second, when Penny went into the other room and came back with the cup, I thought she was going to bring back a positive pregnancy test she'd already taken. 

That actually would have been funny, but now we can have that conflict when she does get pregnant and he has already "donated" to Zack. Not funnier, just more conflict. And, no, Leonard has not thought this through since he wants a child more than he wants to procreate and this will not be his child in any sense other than genetics! It reminds me of the Friends episode where they thru Phoebe a baby shower before they realized that she would not be taking a kid home.

Bernadette is actually funny when she truly plays the wisecracking sidekick/member of the peanut gallery.

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I wonder if this was an intentional call-back to the pilot where Sheldon and Leonard considered sperm-donation as a means of making money.

I actually liked the episode. Zach's stupidity didn't bother as I'm willing to handwave it away as hyperbole for comedy. And since he has shown to have some common sense before (when he was the only one to see how the guys gyroscope thingy would interest the military) I'd think both the hypothetical kid and his money should be okay. But I don't think Leonard will go through with the plan.

It remains to be seen where they are going with this plot. I'm just happy Penny didn't return with a positive pregnancy test - too predictable. But I'm glad they brought the topic of kids up again - I thought it weird that two people who have been in a relationship for years never talked about it until their marriage (i.e. afterwards). And while I respect Penny's decision I think it was necessary to return to the issue once more since Leonard's wishes and feelings on the matter were never explored. It's possible that ultimately this will end their marriage but I would prefer that to Penny suddenly feeling her biological clock ticking or some such nonsense and then change her mind. 

On a lighter note: Amy and Bernadette switching from their scientist personas to best friends mode in the blink of an eye was hilarious:

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Well, viewing Leonard as a mammal, it's perfectly understandable. But viewing him as your husband, he stinks. 

Still rooting for Raj and Anu. And that Anu has never seen 'Love Actually' is perfectly in character - I liked that detail. It did not just produce great comedy but did although highlight why they could work as a couple.

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13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

What about when they repeatedly bump the kid's head while going down the boat stairs with him to change his diaper (just one example of what can go wrong)?

They can hire a nanny.

1 hour ago, SpiritSong said:

and how much money would they realistically get from half the profits of selling a menu company?

We don't know the scope of the business. How many Cheesecake Factory stores do they cover? How many other restaurants? What else do they print? Printers don't just do paper; they do things like plastic sacks and bread wrappers too.

12 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Seriously though, I've been watching a lot of the old episodes lately.  In the final analysis, Penny, while not unattractive, is probably just slightly above average in looks.  (Yes, mileage does vary)  That makes Lenny's ongoing insecurity about her all the more ridiculous.

The producers have tried to have it both ways, and have Penny be the hottest thing around, while having her be jealous of other women, so her looks have varied depending on the plot of the episode. There have definitely been episodes where the producers have done her up right (hair, makeup, lighting, etc) and there's a notable contrast with something like one where Amy is saying how much better Priya is.

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4 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

For a hot second, when Penny went into the other room and came back with the cup, I thought she was going to bring back a positive pregnancy test she'd already taken. 

I thought Penny was going to come back with her birth control pills and throw them in the garbage.

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13 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

And speaking of babies, it annoyed me all over again that Penny unilaterally decided they wouldn't have a family.

Ultimately, if one partner really wants kids and the other really doesn't, someone has to unilaterally make the final decision, and that should always be the one who doesn't want kids.  It isn't a situation where there's some kind of middle ground.  If Leonard wants kids enough, then Penny is not the person with whom he should spend the rest of his life.

5 hours ago, greekmom said:

If Zack is so rich, they can get the creme de la creme of sperm at some sperm back. They don't need Leonard.

But Zack likes Leonard and thinks he's a great person.  I'd rather have that person as a sperm donor (were I ever to decided I needed a sperm donor) than some anonymous donor about whom I'd know nothing important.

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13 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Remember, in this universe Penny is the hottest hottie that ever hotted.  Leonard is so lucky to have her.  Based on that, she gets to call the shots.  Seriously though, I've been watching a lot of the old episodes lately.  In the final analysis, Penny, while not unattractive, is probably just slightly above average in looks.  (Yes, mileage does vary)  That makes Lenny's ongoing insecurity about her all the more ridiculous.

 

12 hours ago, Dani said:

That reminds me that I did not like the return of Amy’s inappropriate comments about how hot Penny is. 

Penny has blonde hair and is not overweight.  So she’s gorgeous?

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14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And, furthermore, is Leonard really going to be okay with them parenting his offspring? How will that work? Will he never see them again? Or what?

This was my question.  Hopefully it'll be explored further, but I'm not holding my breath.

I am glad Raj and Anu are going to try dating rather than rushing into marriage when they really know nothing important about each other.

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7 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I am glad Raj and Anu are going to try dating rather than rushing into marriage when they really know nothing important about each other.

And yet arranged marriages are often long and happy. Look at Raj's parents. They married for love, and are now divorced and bitter. It would be nice for Raj to have a happy ending, and I like Anu better than most of his other hookups.

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23 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

And yet arranged marriages are often long and happy. Look at Raj's parents. They married for love, and are now divorced and bitter. It would be nice for Raj to have a happy ending, and I like Anu better than most of his other hookups.

And other people marry for love and are happy until the day one of them dies.

I do like Anu better than I thought I would, and I think they are good together, but if they're not compatible, then even an arranged marriage won't be a happy one.  They need to spend time learning about each other, and how to become a couple.  Which is possible, because their strengths and weaknesses do seem to compliment other somewhat.  I know, it's a sitcom, but still.

Edited by proserpina65
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15 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

And speaking of babies, it annoyed me all over again that Penny unilaterally decided they wouldn't have a family.

So you would prefer to inflict a child with a mother that doesn't want it?  Great idea.

 

7 hours ago, greekmom said:

If Zack is so rich, they can get the creme de la creme of sperm at some sperm back. They don't need Leonard.

He specifically said he didn't want a stranger.  Why, I don't know.  It would actually be easier in that Leonard might try to butt in later.

I'll agree with those that say you don't need a super high IQ to be a good parent. But these two are walking imbeciles. These are the type of people that will leave forget their baby in the car all day in the summer.  Or allow the child to roll off  a piece of furniture as soon as old enough to roll.  Or trusts some "nice" person who just wants to hold their baby and then runs off with it.

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3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

 

I wonder if this was an intentional call-back to the pilot where Sheldon and Leonard considered sperm-donation as a means of making money.

 

Slightly OT but I’m glad you mentioned this-I thought I misremembered this scene since it seems to be cut out of the reruns when they cycle back to the beginning.

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19 hours ago, mojoween said:

Wait when does Chuck write the vanity cards?  I’m assuming tonight’s was referencing his Golden Globes win but that was just four days ago.

Pretty sure that was written in November, the day after the election. The vanity card before it was predicting he'd be enraged the following week.

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34 minutes ago, wendyg said:

Pretty sure that was written in November, the day after the election. The vanity card before it was predicting he'd be enraged the following week.

On Young Sheldon the vanity card had a picture of a photographer from the Globes so now I don’t know what to think.

I love Zach (I’ll always adore someone who appeared on camera in his underwear to try to avoid elimination from a reality competition) but anyone who claims to work in a bookstore and has never heard of “The Catcher in the Rye” should fall off the gangplank and swim away, never to be seen again.

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I wonder if Leonard will realize he really wants a child of his own and decides to divorce Penny so he can find someone who also wants children.  I don't actually see the show going there but you never know.

It's been mentioned that they should have discussed children before they even got married but  Penny had mentioned at least once that she wanted to have a baby "someday" so I think they both assumed they wanted the same thing. But Penny finally realized she didn't want children.

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No way will Leonard go through with it. Right now he's thinking "his" baby and not "their" baby. Once he thinks clearly, he'll realize this. Hopefully.

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1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I love Zach (I’ll always adore someone who appeared on camera in his underwear to try to avoid elimination from a reality competition) but anyone who claims to work in a bookstore and has never heard of “The Catcher in the Rye” should fall off the gangplank and swim away, never to be seen again.

Maybe the store doesn't sell it. Not all would, instead concentrating on the latest stuff aimed at a mass audience. No reason to think he'd have heard of it otherwise; he doesn't come off as someone who watches trivia game shows (which is where I heard of it).

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Oh, the bookstore thing is not that far off - I had some really weird experiences in bookstores recently. Esoterics, lifestyle and self-help are the sections that sell and that's where the personnel is savvy. The classics are just a nice-to-have addition.

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If we're not allowing stupid people to have children, we need to  start sterilizing a  whole bunch of people.  I vote we start with Congress!  And then all the people in front of me in the checkout line at the grocery store.  Then the people who can't figure out a 4-way stop . . .  Wow, this list is long.  I haven't even gotten to my co-workers yet.  

I like some things about this episode - instead of saying what he thought, I appreciated Sheldon's faces during the car drive.  I liked Raj and Anu realizing they should go back to the starting line.  I liked Bernadette telling Howard not to bad mouth Anu, although it seems that would be something he should know.  

I did not like the return of Amy's infatuation/obsession about the supposed perfection of Penny.  What am I missing?  Penny's a nice looking person, but nothing that warrants that amount of gushing IMO.  Is Kaley Cuoco supposed to be a raving beauty?  I just don't see it.  

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