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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

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Aw, Chris. That's okay baby, I'll set it up for you.

I personally love yelling at my house and having it do things. I have a particular fondness for this holiday season when I grouped up a bunch of different smart plugs and called them 'Christmastime' so I could say 'Alexa, turn on Christmastime' and the wreath, tv stand garland, window garland and tree all lit up.

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On 1/7/2019 at 9:38 PM, Captain Carrot said:

I just saw the Stan Lee outtakes from Ant-Man and the Wasp, and had to post them.

I'm not sure I'm emotionally prepared for the dedication at the front of Captain Marvel.

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I think the reason the DCEU has stumbled relative to the MCU has as much to do with the source material as it does with the people making it.  This is not me saying that DC Comics is bad--far from it.  But the Marvel universe is a whole greater than the sum of its parts in a way that DC isn't.  There's a wonderful graphic novel from the early 90s called Marvels that tells the story of the MU from the 40s-70s, and it's just something you couldn't do with DC.

Truthfully, I'd love them to figure out a way to adapt Marvels to the screen, but I think it wouldn't make a lot of sense to people who only know the MCU.

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10 minutes ago, starri said:

There's a wonderful graphic novel from the early 90s called Marvels that tells the story of the MU from the 40s-70s, and it's just something you couldn't do with DC.

Truthfully, I'd love them to figure out a way to adapt Marvels to the screen, but I think it wouldn't make a lot of sense to people who only know the MCU.

To be fair, probably something like 99% of comic book writers couldn't have pulled of Marvels even with the Marvel Universe. I met Kurt Busiek once at a store signing (hell of a nice guy, I can actually see my signed copy of the Marvels hardcover where I sit right now-he wrote Excelsior as a gag where he signed it). The guy knows a ton about Marvel history and even so the amount of work he spent combing through their archives was super impressive.

He managed to figure out that for example when a Fantastic Four story was doing one thing one month in the 1960's  and then Spider-man or the Avengers were doing something else at the same time and and then turned those unrelated events into a linked story, its crazy. I totally picture him having one of those Beautiful Mind/Carrie from Homeland walls just covered in pictures and notes with strings all over the place linking people and events that are related.

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3 hours ago, Joe said:

It's a great article. I don't fully agree with every bit of it, but I still want to quote the whole third paragraph. That one is gold.

Yeah, Cap didn't kill "brainwashed SHIELD agents", he killed mercenaries working for Loki.

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

To be fair, probably something like 99% of comic book writers couldn't have pulled of Marvels even with the Marvel Universe. I met Kurt Busiek once at a store signing (hell of a nice guy, I can actually see my signed copy of the Marvels hardcover where I sit right now-he wrote Excelsior as a gag where he signed it). The guy knows a ton about Marvel history and even so the amount of work he spent combing through their archives was super impressive.

He managed to figure out that for example when a Fantastic Four story was doing one thing one month in the 1960's  and then Spider-man or the Avengers were doing something else at the same time and and then turned those unrelated events into a linked story, its crazy. I totally picture him having one of those Beautiful Mind/Carrie from Homeland walls just covered in pictures and notes with strings all over the place linking people and events that are related.

I loved Busiek's "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" which had stories took place between the original issues of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko's run. Didn't care for John Byrne's  later "Spider-Man: Chapter One" miniseries which tried to update the Lee and Ditko stories and completely ignored Busiek's stories.

 

3 hours ago, starri said:

I think the reason the DCEU has stumbled relative to the MCU has as much to do with the source material as it does with the people making it.  This is not me saying that DC Comics is bad--far from it.  But the Marvel universe is a whole greater than the sum of its parts in a way that DC isn't.  There's a wonderful graphic novel from the early 90s called Marvels that tells the story of the MU from the 40s-70s, and it's just something you couldn't do with DC.

Truthfully, I'd love them to figure out a way to adapt Marvels to the screen, but I think it wouldn't make a lot of sense to people who only know the MCU.

I will say I liked Byrne's "Superman & Batman: Generations" trilogy which told out of canon stories about Superman, Batman and other DC heroes in real time as opposed to aging slowly in "comic book time". The heroes get married, have children, grandchildren, grow old, things they're not allowed to do in regular continuity because they always have to be young and in their prime. The first series starts from 1939 and each issue jumping ahead 10 years with the whole and spanning six decades.

Edited by VCRTracking

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 10:47 PM, Joe said:

It's a great article. I don't fully agree with every bit of it, but I still want to quote the whole third paragraph. That one is gold.

I was glad to see Chronicle get a shout out.  That was a great film and I didn't think Michael B. Jordan was wasted in it.

Edited by benteen
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Lady Sif is getting a mini-series? Huh. Hopefully it will explain why the sole mention of her in Thor: Ragnarok is the actress who plays her in Loki's play. I know Jaime Alexander was stuck doing that awful looking TV show, but they should at least have stuck a line in, saying she was away from Asgard.

A Loki show? Eh. Hard pass on that.

Edited by Danny Franks
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7 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Wow that is a lot of cash. No wonder Netflix cancelled (or will probably cancel) their shows. You can't compete with that kind of money and that kind of character/star power.

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That probably is true but I think that Daredevil especially will go down as the better show. I think the budget isn't everything. A good show has good writing and acting. While I'm a huge fan of the movies, the writing and character development of shows such as Daredevil or even Agents of Shield is better than the movies at they have more time spent on developing the characters. To be honest none of the shows they proposed sound like something I'd care to watch. Loki's story has been told, Vision and Scarlet Witch bore me in the movies (I seriously fast forwarded their scenes when rewatching Infinity War) and I'm not sure what you can do with Winter Solider/ falcon that can't be done in a movie.  Lady Sif, has already appeared a few times in Agents of Shield. I suppose they could just bring her back, as she worked well with that cast.  And perhaps, I'm sort of hoping the shows flop as I still pissed that they cancelled Daredevil.

Edited by blueray
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I'm at least mildly interested in the Winter Soldier/Falcon series (maybe the former will have a personality again, rather than just being a cipher who causes Steve Rogers' angst), and I'd love to see more stories prominently featuring Lady Sif. But I reached my fill of Loki less than two movies in, and my only interest in a Scarlet Witch/Vision series is the possibility of seeing Agatha Harkness on live TV.

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Eh, I'll probably watch them all. Do I care about Vision and Scarlet Witch? No, no I don't but I'll watch anyway. I'm Marvel's bitch now. I'm sure they'll make me care.

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1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'm at least mildly interested in the Winter Soldier/Falcon series (maybe the former will have a personality again, rather than just being a cipher who causes Steve Rogers' angst), and I'd love to see more stories prominently featuring Lady Sif. But I reached my fill of Loki less than two movies in, and my only interest in a Scarlet Witch/Vision series is the possibility of seeing Agatha Harkness on live TV.

Despite Bucky's metal arm and Falcon's wings, a Bucky/Falcon show should be far more lo-fi and pared back than the Marvel movies are. They should go for a 70s espionage thriller feel. similar to Ed Brubaker's Winter Soldier comic book (although that also had Black Widow as Bucky's partner in crime, which obviously won't happen). But they shouldn't be fighting big, CGI-driven battles against hordes of monsters. It would be a great opportunity for the MCU to introduce AIM, or show us that Hydra are still around.

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4 hours ago, blueray said:

That probably is true but I think that Daredevil especially will go down as the better show. I think the budget isn't everything. A good show has good writing and acting. 

Budget isn't everything but it will certainly help drive viewers to sign up for disney streaming to check out these shows. I am still curious if we will get the disney servoce in Canada or if they will just license the shows to other providers.

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Despite Bucky's metal arm and Falcon's wings, a Bucky/Falcon show should be far more lo-fi and pared back than the Marvel movies are. They should go for a 70s espionage thriller feel. similar to Ed Brubaker's Winter Soldier comic book (although that also had Black Widow as Bucky's partner in crime, which obviously won't happen). But they shouldn't be fighting big, CGI-driven battles against hordes of monsters. It would be a great opportunity for the MCU to introduce AIM, or show us that Hydra are still around.

A show with Bucky and Falcon driving around trying to clean up problems caused by the snap/endgame (maybe with a departed friend's shield in the trunk) could be fun. Something like the A-team.

As for Loki you can do a lot for 100 million. Doing some kind of show set in viking times that plays up the god of mischief angle could be cool.

AlthoughI wonder if these will vbe ongoing series or one season mini series. If ongoing who will be left for any future Avengers movies  (assuming the original avengers step aside). Will it be a team of Panther Spidey and Dr strange for the eventual Avengers 5?

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3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Despite Bucky's metal arm and Falcon's wings, a Bucky/Falcon show should be far more lo-fi and pared back than the Marvel movies are. They should go for a 70s espionage thriller feel. similar to Ed Brubaker's Winter Soldier comic book (although that also had Black Widow as Bucky's partner in crime, which obviously won't happen). But they shouldn't be fighting big, CGI-driven battles against hordes of monsters. It would be a great opportunity for the MCU to introduce AIM, or show us that Hydra are still around.

Reboot AIM. it was used in Iron Man 3.to create the Extremis serum. With Agent Coulson back into play perhaps it is time to consider the all connected line where a new head of Hydra to replace the "last" one cut off has been a regular feature of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Budget isn't everything but it will certainly help drive viewers to sign up for disney streaming to check out these shows. I am still curious if we will get the disney servoce in Canada or if they will just license the shows to other providers.

A show with Bucky and Falcon driving around trying to clean up problems caused by the snap/endgame (maybe with a departed friend's shield in the trunk) could be fun. Something like the A-team.

As for Loki you can do a lot for 100 million. Doing some kind of show set in viking times that plays up the god of mischief angle could be cool.

AlthoughI wonder if these will vbe ongoing series or one season mini series. If ongoing who will be left for any future Avengers movies  (assuming the original avengers step aside). Will it be a team of Panther Spidey and Dr strange for the eventual Avengers 5?

Is there any word on when these series are supposed to take place? Post Endgame? Or possibly the various series are at different times, given Loki supposedly died and wasn't snapped. 
I am SO down for the Bucky/Sam series. That's the one I'm most looking forward to. I love the A-team-esque idea. I'm basically shut up and take my money for this whole thing, even the ones I don't care that much about like Lady Sif. I love that characters will get to be explored more in depth and storylines can be expanded. Probably my biggest complaint with Marvel movies is the lack of screen time for characters not named Tony Stark.

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On 1/14/2019 at 4:39 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Wow that is a lot of cash. No wonder Netflix cancelled (or will probably cancel) their shows. You can't compete with that kind of money and that kind of character/star power.

And yet Daredevil was still an outstanding show.

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On 1/14/2019 at 5:58 PM, blueray said:

That probably is true but I think that Daredevil especially will go down as the better show. I think the budget isn't everything.

I think the budget determines the type of show you can do. A show about Loki needs a bigger FX budget to look good than a street level show like Daredevil.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

I think the budget determines the type of show you can do. A show about Loki needs a bigger FX budget to look good than a street level show like Daredevil.

That was exactly my point. It wasn't any comment about one show being better quality. But with a bigger budget you don't have to do things on the cheap. So you can get better (or at least more famous) actors, you can do better FX, you can get better music, better locations and have more extras in your crowd scenes. It is not hard to see how all of that stuff can easily translate into more viewers, and how Netflix wouldn't want to have to fight with Disney for viewers for related shows. Since it comes to the point where an average viewer can't watch every marvel show.

I personally have watched all the netflix marvel shows, but if there were twice as many marvel shows out there I certainly wouldn't make time for all of them. I mean even in this past year I kind of begrudgingly watched Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Agents of SHIELD.

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Apparently, in the Far From Home trailer, you can see that the former Avengers Tower is undergoing some renovations since Tony sold it. 

Anyone want to put odds on a Mr. Baxter being the new owner?  

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Came across a really awesome twitter thread (it's long, but totally worth it) that pulls a lot of information together to show how nearly almost text a lot of the onscreen SteveBucky subtext is. 

 

Edited by Wynterwolf
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On 1/16/2019 at 10:47 AM, xaxat said:

Where's my Fraction and Aja Hawkeye series?!?!

Should be animated in the same manner that Into The Spiderverse is. 

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3 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Came across a really awesome twitter thread (it's long, but totally worth it) that pulls a lot of information together to show how nearly almost text a lot of the onscreen SteveBucky subtext is. 

 

The disclaimers are great. And true. I am full on Stucky trash but I know damn well that Steve is not going to sacrifice himself immediately after giving Bucky a scorching hot kiss (with tongue) in any MCU film. It just ain't happening. I know this isn't happening. Stucky is pure fantasy that will never be seen for real on the silver screen.

Alas.

I'm the kind of nerd who loves deep dives like this anyway. And fanficcers have a tendency to really do their research. I've learned so much about Depression-era New York because of this fandom. (My grandparents were in South Dakota on farms. I know the rural Depression-era stories.) So, yeah, I dig it.

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34 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Alas.

And the ironic thing is... when they do finally try to do this for real, it likely won't be even half this well told/portrayed.  

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Kevin Feige Reflects on Oscar Player ‘Black Panther’ and 10 Years of Marvel Studios

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It would be fair to call Kevin Feige one of the key figures, if not the key figure, in the modern Hollywood landscape. As president of Marvel Studios and producer of the many superhero blockbusters that emanate from the hit factory (often multiple times per year), he has carved out a historic business model that the rest of the industry continues to chase with varying results.

As 2018 draws to a close, it seems no one but Feige makes sense for our landmark 100th episode of “Playback.” After all, Marvel Studios has been celebrating its own anniversary: It’s been 10 years since “Iron Man” and “The Incredible Hulk” launched the company’s cinematic universe. Meanwhile, “Avengers: Infinity War” and “Black Panther” have become Marvel’s biggest worldwide and Stateside successes, respectively, with the latter stirring serious Oscar buzz. In July, “Ant-Man and the Wasp” marked the 20th film under the Marvel banner and, of course, we lost one of the company’s architects, Stan Lee, just last month.

“It’s surreal,” Feige says when asked about Marvel’s stunning run. “In one way it’s incredibly satisfying. In the other way it’s nearly unbelievable from where we started. There were days when I wasn’t sure we would be able to get ‘Iron Man’ in theaters. There were days when I thought ‘Avengers’ was a pipe dream. And there were days after ‘Avengers’ where I thought, ‘Well, where do we go?'”

After that 2012 superhero team-up, which brought Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk together on screen for the first time, it turns out there were plenty of directions to take the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Feige and company successfully tackled the cosmic space, tapped exciting indie filmmaking talents like Ryan Coogler, Taika Waititi and James Gunn to deliver singular experiences at the multiplex and set the company up for another 10 years.

“I think in a million years nobody would actively plan to build a studio the way Marvel Studios was built, but in hindsight, it was remarkably effective,” Feige says. “We got to work at almost every studio in town except Warner Bros. and Disney, so we got to see the inner workings at the upper levels and got to learn amazing lessons from the inside, ways that we thought were good examples of how to make a movie, perhaps ways that were not as good. So when we ended up taking advantage of the pre-2008 market crash and got financing from Merrill Lynch — which Avi Arad and David Maisel put together and got a half a billion dollars for 10 characters — I was very excited, because at that point I was very, very ready to have the creative authority.”

Edited by Dee
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Avengers: Disney to grant dying Marvel fan's wish to see Endgame months before release

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Known only as “Alexander”, the Reddit user posted: “Will probably be dead before April. I've heard of people getting early screenings before. How do I get in on this action? I'm not a child, or anyone with a particularly tragic story. Just a normal guy. I'm 33, lost my sister three years ago to the same rare genetic disease it turns out I have too. I'll leave behind a devoted girlfriend and an adopted greyhound. I thought I'd make it to April at least, but my bone marrow is toast.”

His fellow Reddit users shared the story, and it eventually paid off as Alexander revealed that Disney had contacted him. He says they're now discussing plans for him to watch the film, titled Avengers: Endgame, months before it's released in cinemas.

Edited by Dee
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On 1/18/2019 at 2:02 PM, VCRTracking said:

If they're doing a Lady Sif show I want them to use it to introduce Beta Ray Bill.

889181-sif_and_bill.jpg

Yes, please!

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On 1/18/2019 at 2:02 PM, VCRTracking said:

If they're doing a Lady Sif show I want them to use it to introduce Beta Ray Bill.

889181-sif_and_bill.jpg

I don't know much about Beta Ray Bill, although I did recently read the Simonson run that was his origin and it was awesome. Bit either way I would kind of love them introducing him because I am curious to see how crazy a character marvel could introduce and still have people accept it.

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I have no idea who Beta Ray Bill is but every time I see the name my brain goes to Billy Ray Cyrus. 

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18 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I think Rocket and Groot may already outdo Bill in terms of sheer craziness.

See I am not sure. Rocket is a talking racoon (or rabbit depending on where you are from), Groot is a talking tree. By comparison Bill is a talking monster/alien that maybe looks a bit like a horse but really is like nothing people have ever seen before.

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9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I have no idea who Beta Ray Bill is but every time I see the name my brain goes to Billy Ray Cyrus. 

There is quite probably a post from me somewhere around here (from many years ago) where I typed out 'Beta Billy Rae' 😃 

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18 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

There is quite probably a post from me somewhere around here (from many years ago) where I typed out 'Beta Billy Rae' 😃 

Well, that just sounds like Billy Rae is still in testing and hasn't been released to the public yet.

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19 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That whole project had such a strange creative arc. The first season of most of them started strong. By the end of that season, it felt like they could have tightened them up with fewer episodes. And the second seasons felt like a drop off from the first with the same feeling of bloat.

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I know the fans are blaming Disney, but there is an article that said that the views of all these series dropped off terribly after the first season. They simply weren't as popular as people thought.

Edited by SimoneS
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1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I know the fans are blaming Disney, but there is an article that said that the views of all these series dropped off terribly after the first season. They simple weren't as popular as people thought.

I don't believe that Daredevil wasn't popular. Sure the second season wasn't as good as the first one, but the third one was amazing. And I think people were talking about it.

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33 minutes ago, blueray said:

I don't believe that Daredevil wasn't popular. Sure the second season wasn't as good as the first one, but the third one was amazing. And I think people were talking about it.

But if ratings are down already, imagine how much more they would drop imagine how much more they would dip once Daredevil has to compete with a Loki show or a Falcon and Bucky show.

I also saw it suggested somewhere that Netflix is clearing house and cancelling a bunch of shows don't have control of like the Marvel shows, Fuller House and Orange is the New Black.

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38 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But if ratings are down already, imagine how much more they would drop imagine how much more they would dip once Daredevil has to compete with a Loki show or a Falcon and Bucky show.

Isn't that kind of apples and oranges, though? I can't really speak about Daredevil since I preferred Punisher, but the Netflix shows were about the street-level heroes. Most of the people I've talked to about the Disney service are really looking forward to Bucky and Sam having a show, but not so much Loki, since it depends on whether you think his story is already finished. I don't think he'd work as a true hero, and without Thor to antagonize, without Odin's bad parenting to whine about, what exactly would the show be about since those two things have been his motivations all along?

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52 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Isn't that kind of apples and oranges, though? I can't really speak about Daredevil since I preferred Punisher, but the Netflix shows were about the street-level heroes. Most of the people I've talked to about the Disney service are really looking forward to Bucky and Sam having a show, but not so much Loki, since it depends on whether you think his story is already finished. I don't think he'd work as a true hero, and without Thor to antagonize, without Odin's bad parenting to whine about, what exactly would the show be about since those two things have been his motivations all along?

I think that for the average viewer they are both streaming super hero shows they could choose from the same way apples and oranges might both be fruit in my fridge I could choose from. But I think there are a lot of things that the Disney shows will have that will make them attractive to viewers. And since every viewer won't watch every show the netflix shows will probably lose viewers.

And personally I think a historical show about the Norse god of mischief stirring up shit throughout the ages sounds kind of awesome. Especially one with a budget to make those ages look good.

Edited by Kel Varnsen

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:38 PM, xaxat said:

That whole project had such a strange creative arc. The first season of most of them started strong. By the end of that season, it felt like they could have tightened them up with fewer episodes. And the second seasons felt like a drop off from the first with the same feeling of bloat.

I'd feel much more frustrated about them all ending, if they'd all been good. But on balance, only about half of Netflix's Marvel product has been worth watching.

Daredevil ranged from great to decent, the first season of Jessica Jones was fantastic, and the first season of The Punisher was good. The rest of it? Luke Cage was fucking boring, Iron Fist was straight up bad (I never even finished the first season) and the second season of Jessica Jones made me angry, and not in a good way. And I keep forgetting The Defenders ever happened.

If the shows had all received universal acclaim, then perhaps Netflix would have been less keen to axe them all at once. But this is clearly an operational decision from up high, to move away from Marvel content entirely. It's not like they're abandoning comic book adaptations, with Umbrella Academy, and the licensing of Titans and Doom Patrol, and probably more to come.

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