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Timeless

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So I just searched to see what happened at the end, since I did not watch any of season two. Oh, show. You killed off the best actor and the most interesting character. You deserved to be cancelled. Flynn was so wonderfully layered and complex-both the character and Goran were far too good for this show.

 

Seriously, Wyatt over Flynn ? LOL SO stupid. One character is interesting and the actor can act and the actor has chemistry with the actress who played Lucy.

The other one didn't have any of that. It was a no brainer and they ended it badly.

But but but...Wyatt was GOOD murdery while Flynn was BAD murdery. What-ever. Over that argument.

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1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

But but but...Wyatt was GOOD murdery while Flynn was BAD murdery.

Is there a score of the body counts?

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8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there a score of the body counts?

Well, apperenetly killing in the line of duty (Wyatt) is the same thing as being international (inteerdimensional?) terrorist (Flynn), so. Also, caring about people but being pshychologically damaged in some way and making mistakes in personal matters because of that (Wyatt) is the same thing as being an unrepetant muderer and a jerk to everyone and ultimyately only caring about well-being of one person (the one you threatened and wanted to kill anyway) (Flynn).

I'm glad that at least Flynn the character thanks to the writers was more self-aware about his actions towards the Time Team than the Flynn's fans.

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3 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

So I just searched to see what happened at the end, since I did not watch any of season two. Oh, show. You killed off the best actor and the most interesting character. You deserved to be cancelled. Flynn was so wonderfully layered and complex-both the character and Goran were far too good for this show.

 

Seriously, Wyatt over Flynn ? LOL SO stupid. One character is interesting and the actor can act and the actor has chemistry with the actress who played Lucy.

The other one didn't have any of that. It was a no brainer and they ended it badly.

But but but...Wyatt was GOOD murdery while Flynn was BAD murdery. What-ever. Over that argument.

Watch season 2, and the finale - season 2 was great

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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there a score of the body counts?

 I'm not keeping score. I am sure Wyatt and Flynn racked up the most. If the actor who played Rufus himself admitted in an interview, that they are basically a team of murderers, that's good enough for me.

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Watch season 2, and the finale - season 2 was great

I just don't know if I can. Perhaps I can watch and enjoy if I don't come on here to discuss it. Message boards while I'm watching a show, tend to kill the enjoyment for me.

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8 hours ago, CooperTV said:

Well, apperenetly killing in the line of duty (Wyatt) is the same thing as being international (inteerdimensional?) terrorist (Flynn), so. Also, caring about people but being pshychologically damaged in some way and making mistakes in personal matters because of that (Wyatt) is the same thing as being an unrepetant muderer and a jerk to everyone and ultimyately only caring about well-being of one person (the one you threatened and wanted to kill anyway) (Flynn).

I'm glad that at least Flynn the character thanks to the writers was more self-aware about his actions towards the Time Team than the Flynn's fans.

This is why I didn't want to bother coming here. Wyatt didn't just kill in the line of duty. Unless they guy who died because he was obsessed with his dead wife, counts as in the line of duty.

No, it doesn't matter that it was an accident. And I didn't even watch in season two-did he kill anyone else "accidentally" or needlessly ? I don't know, and I don't care.

I am not in any denial or wearing rose colored glasses when it comes to Flynn. He did awful things, but at least he spent some time in jail for them. Unlike....everyone else.

This show was nothing but a show full of murdering  murderers for the sake of the murdering (I think NBC thinks it's edgy to have shows like that, see The Black List as another example). It's why I stopped watching, and why I probably won't watch again. I definitely won't come here and comment if I do watch. I wanted it to be a fun show about time travel, and it turned out to be anything but.

 

Yes, Finn is a murderer. So is Wyatt, so is Lucy, and didn't everyone on the show by the end kill someone ? Or multiple someones? Taking a life you don't have to take is murder, and many of the deaths I witnessed did not have to be.

 Murderer or not, Finn is still waaaaaay more interesting than Wyatt. My opinion, but it doesn't seem to be the minority one around the internet. 

Agree to disagree.

Edited by IWantCandy71
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17 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

 I'm not keeping score. I am sure Wyatt and Flynn racked up the most. If the actor who played Rufus himself admitted in an interview, that they are basically a team of murderers, that's good enough for me.

I just don't know if I can. Perhaps I can watch and enjoy if I don't come on here to discuss it. Message boards while I'm watching a show, tend to kill the enjoyment for me.

Watch it and discuss it here. I am sure the fans here will be glad to discuss the eps with you :D

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Thank you, but I doubt I will. I won't say never, but it would be a long time in the future if I watch season 2, and I do think I'll enjoy it more if I don't come here to talk about it. I don't like having to defend one of the only characters on this show that actually had a personality and wasn't a boring douche.

For me, it's simply this: an interesting character doesn't have to be "good". 

But a character does have to be interesting in order for me to bother. Flynn, Rufus, Mason, Jia, they interest me. I care about them, they make their scenes watchable.

The other three ? Pfffft. Mayo sandwiches, the lot of them in my opinion. But some people like mayo, I'm not judging. One of my favorite snacks as a kid was saltine crackers with mayo in the middle. Different strokes for different folks. 

I prefer spice, that's all.  And obviously spice can be an acquired taste, and sometimes it is best in small doses.

Edited by IWantCandy71
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On 1/5/2019 at 9:23 AM, IWantCandy71 said:

 I'm not keeping score. I am sure Wyatt and Flynn racked up the most. If the actor who played Rufus himself admitted in an interview, that they are basically a team of murderers, that's good enough for me.

I didn't see that interview, but it seems to be an exaggeration to me.  They all did kill people, but they were essentially at war by the end. If the show continued they'd probably have an even higher body count.

In season 1, Flynn was killing dozens of people in each episode.  He also tried to totally wipe out history with no regard for the side effects. They toned him down a ton in season 2.

Emma is probably second in terms of who killed the most. She was cold.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:30 AM, IWantCandy71 said:

No, it doesn't matter that it was an accident. And I didn't even watch in season two-did he kill anyone else "accidentally" or needlessly ? I don't know, and I don't care.

Well, maybe not to you, but it matters to me if it was an accident.  If you are ranking people's actions, I think intentionally setting out to end someone's life is worse than accidentally causing a death. And legally speaking, you have to prove intent to kill to convict someone of murder. Accidental death is manslaughter. Manslaughter is still pretty bad though.

But season 2 was a long time ago. I can't remember who Wyatt killed. Emma killed a bunch. Lucy was forced to kill someone. I think Jiya killed a guy in self-defense.  Lucy's mom and great-grandfather probably did some killing. Rittenhouse agents killed people.

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So, finally watched the finale.  Maybe if they had more seasons for the story, it would have hada different explanation, but I thought this one was crap.

Lucy's diary, which she wrote documenting what Flynn did, then she gives the diary to Flynn (either post-apocolyptic lucy or good future lucy), which he follows doing something slightly different maybe(to succeed this time?), but he thinks its all to stop Rittenhouse, but its all just what he did before, which Lucy wrote down.  So nothing, nothing that Flynn did had really anything to do with Rittenhouse, it was all just a big friggin unstoppable timeloop without any meaning whatsoever.  there's no evidence Rittenhouse intended to do or affect anything recorded in that diary (other than a couple of very specific events).  To our knowledge, Rittenhouse didn't even do all that much, we never saw much of what they did, there was only just the 'threat' that Rittenhouse would do "evil" or maybe just greed for power/money  with a time machine (which really, how different is that from ordinary businessmen who lack a time machine?)

I was just very frustrated with the whole premise.  Sure, glad they got Rufus back, happy ending for the good guys (for the most part).  But it seems like a real waste of my time, story wise.  

If you want a good time travel story that actually makes a bit of sense (for such a thing), go watch 12 Monkey's instead.

Edited by Hanahope
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21 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I didn't see that interview, but it seems to be an exaggeration to me.  They all did kill people, but they were essentially at war by the end. If the show continued they'd probably have an even higher body count.

In season 1, Flynn was killing dozens of people in each episode.  He also tried to totally wipe out history with no regard for the side effects. They toned him down a ton in season 2.

Emma is probably second in terms of who killed the most. She was cold.

Well, maybe not to you, but it matters to me if it was an accident.  If you are ranking people's actions, I think intentionally setting out to end someone's life is worse than accidentally causing a death. And legally speaking, you have to prove intent to kill to convict someone of murder. Accidental death is manslaughter. Manslaughter is still pretty bad though.

But season 2 was a long time ago. I can't remember who Wyatt killed. Emma killed a bunch. Lucy was forced to kill someone. I think Jiya killed a guy in self-defense.  Lucy's mom and great-grandfather probably did some killing. Rittenhouse agents killed people.

Honestly, when I say it doesn't matter to me, what I mean is: if a character interests me, I want to watch them. I have never had an ounce of interest in Wyatt. That's what I mean when I say it doesn't matter to me. Wyatt could kill 100 people, or  he could be the type that would never swat a fly. Either way, he'll never, ever, ever, be interesting to me. That is what I mean when I said it doesn't matter. I don't care if he only killed in the line of duty or not, really. He's not interesting enough to bother arguing over.

I don't like the violence. It's why I stopped watching. But Flynn, blood on his hands or not, IS interesting to me. And he'd be interesting if the opposite were true. FLYNN interests me. Wyatt doesn't, and never has. And that is why the "who has killed who" doesn't matter to me-because it has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the characters I liked on this show.

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I got around to watching the series finale and I very much enjoyed it.  Time travel always makes my head hurt because of the paradoxes that get created... the team destroyed the Mothership in 2018 but kept the Lifeboat so that in 2023, Lucy could travel to 2014 to give Flynn the notebook to start the whole chain of events.  Lucy was getting a headache because she was in a time she previously existed, why didn't Wyatt and Rufus also get headaches?  And wouldn't some aspect of the time fabric get altered so that somewhere somebody remembers something?

I really enjoyed the flash clips of previous episodes.  I will miss this series, I enjoyed the visits in the historical timeline.

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54 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I got around to watching the series finale and I very much enjoyed it.  Time travel always makes my head hurt because of the paradoxes that get created... the team destroyed the Mothership in 2018 but kept the Lifeboat so that in 2023, Lucy could travel to 2014 to give Flynn the notebook to start the whole chain of events.  Lucy was getting a headache because she was in a time she previously existed, why didn't Wyatt and Rufus also get headaches?  And wouldn't some aspect of the time fabric get altered so that somewhere somebody remembers something?

I really enjoyed the flash clips of previous episodes.  I will miss this series, I enjoyed the visits in the historical timeline.

Wyatt and Rufus (who wasn't in that scene) would have started showing symptoms of time-travel sickness if they had stayed much longer in 2014. That's why Wyatt was watching and kind of silently urging Lucy to get on with giving the journal to Flynn so they could leave.  And anyone who travels during changes to the timeline remembers everything from the previous timelines. That's why Emma remembered Jessica (even though she no longer existed in 2018) and Lucy still remembers her sister after everything.

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12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I got around to watching the series finale and I very much enjoyed it.  Time travel always makes my head hurt because of the paradoxes that get created... the team destroyed the Mothership in 2018 but kept the Lifeboat so that in 2023, Lucy could travel to 2014 to give Flynn the notebook to start the whole chain of events.  Lucy was getting a headache because she was in a time she previously existed, why didn't Wyatt and Rufus also get headaches?  And wouldn't some aspect of the time fabric get altered so that somewhere somebody remembers something?

I really enjoyed the flash clips of previous episodes.  I will miss this series, I enjoyed the visits in the historical timeline.

Different people, different tolerances.

Lucy is probably the only one who remembers everything. Rufus doesn't. Wait, Wyatt does too, I think.

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12 hours ago, bros402 said:

Lucy is probably the only one who remembers everything. Rufus doesn't. Wait, Wyatt does too, I think.

The way it was described in the show itself reminded me a lot of Stargate SG1's alternative universe doppelganger effect called "entropic cascade failure":

Quote

Entropic cascade failure is a side effect that can occur when traveling to an alternate reality. It is caused by the increased entropy created by multiple versions of the same person in one reality. The effects, which only affect the non-native versions, continue to get worse over time, eventually resulting in death. The only way to prevent this is for them to go back to their own reality. Entropic cascade failure does not occur if a person's counterpart in another reality is deceased.

Entropic cascade failure

There was a thing like that in the movie Timecop, with "the same matter cannot occupy the same space".

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11 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The way it was described in the show itself reminded me a lot of Stargate SG1's alternative universe doppelganger effect called "entropic cascade failure":

Entropic cascade failure

There was a thing like that in the movie Timecop, with "the same matter cannot occupy the same space".

I believe Lucy is the only one that remembers Timeline 1 (Let's call that the timeline as of the start of the pilot). Rufus' timeline diverges after Hollywoodland, and that was the 19th episode of the series, so Rufus is on Timeline 19.

However, Lucy didn't go in the lifeboat back to 1983, so Wyatt's the only one with the original timeline.

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I get the impression that people who liked Wyatt and Wyatt/Lucy were  generally pleased with the finale. As I didn't, I didn't have warm fuzzy feelings to distract me from the flimsy plot and the waste of the characters of Flynn and Jessica.

On 1/7/2019 at 10:48 PM, IWantCandy71 said:

Thank you, but I doubt I will. I won't say never, but it would be a long time in the future if I watch season 2, and I do think I'll enjoy it more if I don't come here to talk about it. I don't like having to defend one of the only characters on this show that actually had a personality and wasn't a boring douche.

For me, it's simply this: an interesting character doesn't have to be "good". 

But a character does have to be interesting in order for me to bother. Flynn, Rufus, Mason, Jia, they interest me. I care about them, they make their scenes watchable.

 

I would add Denise to that list, I think.  But they barely scratched the surface with her.

I recommend watching episodes 2x4 through to the end.  Flynn joins the team and has to negotiate relationships with everyone, most thinking he's a murderous psychopath, Lucy gets more interesting away from Wyatt and even Wyatt gets better as he has to deal with what to do about the new Jessica. There's also a nice scene with Denise and Flynn that gives an insight into what it's like for Denise when everyone else leaves to go on a mission.  If you like blues, don't miss King of the Delta Blues where they meet Robert Johnson.

So much potential. And then the wrap-up movie wasted it.

On 1/8/2019 at 5:22 PM, Hanahope said:

So, finally watched the finale.  Maybe if they had more seasons for the story, it would have hada different explanation, but I thought this one was crap.

Lucy's diary, which she wrote documenting what Flynn did, then she gives the diary to Flynn (either post-apocolyptic lucy or good future lucy), which he follows doing something slightly different maybe(to succeed this time?), but he thinks its all to stop Rittenhouse, but its all just what he did before, which Lucy wrote down.  So nothing, nothing that Flynn did had really anything to do with Rittenhouse, it was all just a big friggin unstoppable timeloop without any meaning whatsoever.  there's no evidence Rittenhouse intended to do or affect anything recorded in that diary (other than a couple of very specific events).  To our knowledge, Rittenhouse didn't even do all that much, we never saw much of what they did, there was only just the 'threat' that Rittenhouse would do "evil" or maybe just greed for power/money  with a time machine (which really, how different is that from ordinary businessmen who lack a time machine?)

I was just very frustrated with the whole premise.  Sure, glad they got Rufus back, happy ending for the good guys (for the most part).  But it seems like a real waste of my time, story wise.  

If you want a good time travel story that actually makes a bit of sense (for such a thing), go watch 12 Monkey's instead.

 

I don't know if they ran out of time to tell a good story and so they wrapped it up quickly by killing the alternative love interests*, or if there was no real story there and it was just window dressing. I think it was the latter given how they never really came up with a consistent Rittenhouse story, it was all one shots that often didn't make sense in terms of a long game plan.  And then they wrote a Christmas story.  Personally I thought that naming one of the Lyatt twins Flynn was pissing on the Lucy/Flynn shippers but either the producers didn't see that or they didn't care.

But at least Rufus and Jiya ended happily.

* it reminds me of the first episode of season 3 of Arrow where they shot Sara with an Arrow and then had her fall off the roof into a dumpster to make sure she was really, truly dead and could not be brought back so that Laurel could be the Black Canary (and then they realized what a mistake that had been)

Edited by statsgirl
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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:33 PM, statsgirl said:

I get the impression that people who liked Wyatt and Wyatt/Lucy were  generally pleased with the finale. 

 

The idea of anyone liking Wyatt is something I will never  understand. :)  He had no semblance of a personality whatsoever. I may as I said..eventually watch in the distant future. I doubt it though, but thank you for your comments and insight. Have a great night !

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Just so everyone knows - Sony is running a contest on their twitter account for some Timeless related prizes, contest goes on for a day or two more.

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Deleted scene from the series finale/reunion movie, between Lucy and Agent Christopher after they find out Flynn had died.
https://tvline.com/2019/02/02/timeless-series-finale-deleted-scene-lucy-agent-christopher-video/

It would have happened before the North Korea portion.  It did address one of the minor loose ends, though the rest of it wasn't very substantial.

Edited by Camera One
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