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Chaos Theory

S03.E03: Spies Like Us

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On 12/23/2018 at 11:43 PM, green said:

Sorry but fighting evil isn't like a fast food movie version of fighting evil.  It takes patience and often times years and years of battles.  But it is what you do.  We can't give up and let this show falter by tuning out or CO$ will win.  I mean it isn't like we are doing much of anything compared to the people in the trenches who are fighting daily many of whom have had their lives destroyed by this shit group.  The least me can do is honor their sacrifice and support them by watching weekly and posting on sites like this.

Well said, green.

Edited by Maelstrom · Reason: added quote for clarity
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On 12/6/2018 at 9:19 AM, veronicamers said:

I've long thought that going after Scientology's human trafficking is the best path for legal/legislative action. What they are doing to children (holding them under coercion, forced labor) fits the definition.

Addressing their tax exempt status is fraught because of the issue mentioned above...so many other "mainstream" religious groups who have a ton of political influence would see it as setting a precedent and a veiled attack on their own status.

This episode was infuriating. I don't know how anyone could withstand the pressure tactics Robert was describing. Having people approach your neighbors, show up wherever you go, causing scenes in public places? Unreal.

https://tonyortega.org/wp-content/cache/all/2013/01/13/did-the-headleys-and-their-lawsuit-torpedo-the-fbi-investigation-of-scientology/index.html

 

Looks like they gave it a try before.

 

 

 

 

On 12/13/2018 at 1:19 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

*Raises hand*  That's me.  I'm just burned out on this show.  I started to watch this episode, and it was same-old, same-old and I thought " I don't want to waste an hour of my life watching the same stuff I've seen before."   I appreciate what Leah and Mike are doing and I hope they succeed, but the show is just boring now. 

Maybe just DVR it? Does that count for ratings? Or On Demand? Play the OnDemand while you're doing other things, at least give Leah the ratings?  If it isn't "real" ratings, I would guess the networks still track downloads/views?

Edited by MamaMax

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And this episode wasn't really the "same old stuff".  Robert Almblad's story was heartbreaking, and I'm not sure the show has covered Fair Game in this much detail before, much less against a person who didn't do anything but give an ex-Scientologist a job.

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On 12/24/2018 at 1:43 AM, green said:

Sorry but fighting evil isn't like a fast food movie version of fighting evil.  It takes patience and often times years and years of battles.  But it is what you do.  We can't give up and let this show falter by tuning out or CO$ will win.  I mean it isn't like we are doing much of anything compared to the people in the trenches who are fighting daily many of whom have had their lives destroyed by this shit group.  The least we can do is honor their sacrifice and support them by watching weekly and posting on sites like this.

A little late to the party, but I'd also like to add, while this show certainly hasn't destroyed the CO$, it may very well be keeping people from joining.  I was pretty well versed in how crazy CO$ teachings and practices were when Going Clear came out, but when I mentioned the documentary to co-workers none of them knew anything about Scientology other than that's what Tom Cruise practices.  And I mean nothing.  They thought it was maybe kind of "hippy-dippy" but they knew nothing about the Sea Org, nothing about the abuse, nothing about Xenu or thetans or the amount of money you spend on courses.  So at the very least the fact that this show is showing that the CO$ isn't just this largely benign if not hippy-dippy religion is helping.  Twenty years ago I would have described myself as looking for spiritual fulfillment, luckily  I wasn't in an area where the CO$ is prevalent, but if I had, I might have gotten sucked in.  I remember seeing Dianetics commercials when I was a kid, and thinking that looks kind of interesting, I could use a "handbook for the mind," (which is what I believe was the slogan at the time).  So having a show like this that people talk about and makes the general public aware of the bull that CO$ does and teaches, is invaluable.  It may have saved countless young people, who might have gotten sucked into the CO$ rabbit hole otherwise.

As a side note still boggles my mind that LRH somehow not only got people to believe his delusional ramblings but also managed to make schizophrenic behavior policy.  Following people around accusing of random often vague crimes comes across as very schizophrenic-like behavior.  And I don't say that to stigmatize people with mental illness, but having seen LRH on film and read snippets of his writings leads me to believe without a doubt that he suffered from schizophrenia and/or bipolar disorder.  And to an extent, I think that LRH was less some sort of diabolic mastermind and more of a very mentally ill man who really needed help, who was instead indulged and used by those around him (especially towards the end of his life).  That's not to say that I absolve him totally of the sins of Scientology.  But either case the policies of dealing with SPs seem very much like something a very mentally ill person would come up with and other (supposedly) sane people have looked at them and said, "Yep, this sounds totally normal,"  it just baffles my mind.

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On 1/6/2019 at 8:08 AM, Proclone said:

A little late to the party, but I'd also like to add, while this show certainly hasn't destroyed the CO$, it may very well be keeping people from joining.  I was pretty well versed in how crazy CO$ teachings and practices were when Going Clear came out, but when I mentioned the documentary to co-workers none of them knew anything about Scientology other than that's what Tom Cruise practices.  And I mean nothing.  They thought it was maybe kind of "hippy-dippy" but they knew nothing about the Sea Org, nothing about the abuse, nothing about Xenu or thetans or the amount of money you spend on courses.  So at the very least the fact that this show is showing that the CO$ isn't just this largely benign if not hippy-dippy religion is helping.  Twenty years ago I would have described myself as looking for spiritual fulfillment, luckily  I wasn't in an area where the CO$ is prevalent, but if I had, I might have gotten sucked in.  I remember seeing Dianetics commercials when I was a kid, and thinking that looks kind of interesting, I could use a "handbook for the mind," (which is what I believe was the slogan at the time).  So having a show like this that people talk about and makes the general public aware of the bull that CO$ does and teaches, is invaluable.  It may have saved countless young people, who might have gotten sucked into the CO$ rabbit hole otherwise.

As a side note still boggles my mind that LRH somehow not only got people to believe his delusional ramblings but also managed to make schizophrenic behavior policy.  Following people around accusing of random often vague crimes comes across as very schizophrenic-like behavior.  And I don't say that to stigmatize people with mental illness, but having seen LRH on film and read snippets of his writings leads me to believe without a doubt that he suffered from schizophrenia and/or bipolar disorder.  And to an extent, I think that LRH was less some sort of diabolic mastermind and more of a very mentally ill man who really needed help, who was instead indulged and used by those around him (especially towards the end of his life).  That's not to say that I absolve him totally of the sins of Scientology.  But either case the policies of dealing with SPs seem very much like something a very mentally ill person would come up with and other (supposedly) sane people have looked at them and said, "Yep, this sounds totally normal,"  it just baffles my mind.

This was me as well, except it was 30 years ago.  Thankfully my mother told me that book would never be allowed in her house, to this day I have not seen her have that kind of reaction to anything else.  But I did get sucked into EST (if anyone remembers that shit show)

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6 hours ago, blondiek237 said:

But I did get sucked into EST (if anyone remembers that shit show)

...only because of its depiction on "The Americans," lol. (If you didn't watch that show, A) you should -- it's amazing, and B) several characters get wrapped up in EST -- including one of our beloved Russian spies -- and it becomes an interesting point of contention in latter seasons.)

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:08 AM, Proclone said:

A little late to the party, but I'd also like to add, while this show certainly hasn't destroyed the CO$, it may very well be keeping people from joining.  I was pretty well versed in how crazy CO$ teachings and practices were when Going Clear came out, but when I mentioned the documentary to co-workers none of them knew anything about Scientology other than that's what Tom Cruise practices.  And I mean nothing.  They thought it was maybe kind of "hippy-dippy" but they knew nothing about the Sea Org, nothing about the abuse, nothing about Xenu or thetans or the amount of money you spend on courses.  So at the very least the fact that this show is showing that the CO$ isn't just this largely benign if not hippy-dippy religion is helping.  Twenty years ago I would have described myself as looking for spiritual fulfillment, luckily  I wasn't in an area where the CO$ is prevalent, but if I had, I might have gotten sucked in.  I remember seeing Dianetics commercials when I was a kid, and thinking that looks kind of interesting, I could use a "handbook for the mind," (which is what I believe was the slogan at the time).  So having a show like this that people talk about and makes the general public aware of the bull that CO$ does and teaches, is invaluable.  It may have saved countless young people, who might have gotten sucked into the CO$ rabbit hole otherwise.

I always thought they were "out there", but I always figured "live and let live".  I didn't know about the deep stuff either.  In fact, there was a blog some friends and I used to hate read, and the guy who ran it took up the Anti-Scientology crusade a number of years back, and was bragging about how he would purposely goad them in to fights, and try to get in to their buildings, and when he got a cease and desist, he framed it and bragged about it.  So some of us dug deeper, and we all were shocked.  Although it didn't change our mind about the guy we used to hate read.  We thought he was an even bigger moron because I don't think he knew just how deep their tactics run, and he made himself an enemy.  He later lost his job, and we often wondered if that had anything to do with it.

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On 1/6/2019 at 6:08 AM, Proclone said:

I remember seeing Dianetics commercials when I was a kid, and thinking that looks kind of interesting, I could use a "handbook for the mind," (which is what I believe was the slogan at the time).  So having a show like this that people talk about and makes the general public aware of the bull that CO$ does and teaches, is invaluable.  It may have saved countless young people, who might have gotten sucked into the CO$ rabbit hole otherwise.

I remember those ads too and that slogan.  The "volcano ad" I thought looked cool at the time (I was just a kid, what did I know?)  One of my parents must have seen it too because I remember seeing a copy of Dianetics in the bathroom on the toilet-reading pile.  It made no impression because my parents never spoke about it.  Looking back now, it was kind of the perfect place for it.

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And this episode demonstrates exactly what is so very wrong with the CO$ at its core level.  CO$ is the mean kid, the bully at school.  If you don't agree with them, they will pick on you endlessly.  Just for kicks.  If you are friends with someone they don't like, they tease and bully you mercilessly.  Just because they can.  Some of the "adults" in charge turn a blind eye because they don't want to deal with it, deal with the bully's parents and/or want to keep their job.

Tailing someone for 20+ years is a whole new level of batshit crazy.  If the CO$ members know about this, they're okay with their money being spent this way?   Does someone like Tom Cruise, who has given a shit ton of money to the CO$ over the years, okay with his hard-earned money being spent to on PIs to follow someone who has simply left the CO$?  Or is everyone in the "church" so brainwashed by Davey, they don't have a clue what's going on and/or are okay with absolutely everything? 

I think Cierra, the female PI, was so grateful to have a job fresh out of school - - and I assume a well-paying job -- from the CO$, that she ignored what she was doing to people.

I remember reading about the female journalist in the 1970s that the CO$ stalked and harassed for years, including legally, when she dared to write a piece that was critical about them.  I am just amazed that the CO$ - - or ANYBODY - - could flat out harass someone for YEARS and get away with it.  What they did to her, and to her family, was criminal.  

I had to laugh over Mike telling how he would put ringer trash in his bins and even throw dog poop in there, knowing the CO$ minions would still go through it.  He's definitely got their number.  And those PIs/trash diggers must be paid well, since Mike caught one on tape, putting the trash in his newish-looking Corvette.  

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5 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

And this episode demonstrates exactly what is so very wrong with the CO$ at its core level.  CO$ is the mean kid, the bully at school.  If you don't agree with them, they will pick on you endlessly.  Just for kicks.  If you are friends with someone they don't like, they tease and bully you mercilessly.  Just because they can.  Some of the "adults" in charge turn a blind eye because they don't want to deal with it, deal with the bully's parents and/or want to keep their job.

Tailing someone for 20+ years is a whole new level of batshit crazy.  If the CO$ members know about this, they're okay with their money being spent this way?   Does someone like Tom Cruise, who has given a shit ton of money to the CO$ over the years, okay with his hard-earned money being spent to on PIs to follow someone who has simply left the CO$?  Or is everyone in the "church" so brainwashed by Davey, they don't have a clue what's going on and/or are okay with absolutely everything? 

I think Cierra, the female PI, was so grateful to have a job fresh out of school - - and I assume a well-paying job -- from the CO$, that she ignored what she was doing to people.

I remember reading about the female journalist in the 1970s that the CO$ stalked and harassed for years, including legally, when she dared to write a piece that was critical about them.  I am just amazed that the CO$ - - or ANYBODY - - could flat out harass someone for YEARS and get away with it.  What they did to her, and to her family, was criminal.  

I had to laugh over Mike telling how he would put ringer trash in his bins and even throw dog poop in there, knowing the CO$ minions would still go through it.  He's definitely got their number.  And those PIs/trash diggers must be paid well, since Mike caught one on tape, putting the trash in his newish-looking Corvette.  

agree with everything except the bolded...

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