Jump to content
Pallas

Season Two: Marvelous General Discussion

Recommended Posts

I should have stuck to my guns and not binged the season because it was over too soon - and for some characters, not soon enough. The incessant bitching and drama from Suzie grated on me and then Joel and Abe.  Oy.

Benjamin seems to good to be true and they hardly know each other.  Zero chemistry and I don't expect he'll be around in season 3.   

Love Jane Lynch as Sophie.   I suspected she'd be strange but totally on her side.  Must be an unwritten rule to never trash talk another comic, even a bad one, so Midge deserves the backlash.

 Lenny Bruce is another highlight.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Love Jane Lynch as Sophie.   I suspected she'd be strange but totally on her side.  Must be an unwritten rule to never trash talk another comic, even a bad one, so Midge deserves the backlash.

 

I didn't love Jane Lynch as Sophie is season 1, but she seemed to do better for me in season 2.  Even though she didn't have many scenes in either season, they seemed to give her more depth this time around.  I am also glad they didn't just forget about her--which I thought they had until she showed up again.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/20/2019 at 8:22 PM, wendyg said:

AuntieMame: The name is Mohonk. My parents used to go up there for short vacations. Great place, though hardly cheap. Very old-world. (Among other things, no TV.)

Mohonk has changed dramatically since then. It has a world class spa now with an indoor pool, bar/lounge and tv rooms for watching- though not in rooms. Air conditioning too. Ice skating rink as well with a massive stone fire place.

Still primarily focuses on outdoors and nature. 

It an amazing spot and possibly my favorite place to go outside of NYC. It’s all inclusive so all meals, tips and almost all activities are included as well as children’s activities.

also Mohonk was founded by the Smiley brothers who were Quakers. It was decidedly different from the Borscht Belt Jewish resorts but many of the outdoor things were probably the same.

Edited by rose711

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, I remember at least one of the Smileys - Virginia, I think, who once performed what I later realized was Anna Russell's routine on "How to Write Your Own Gilbert & Sullivan". It was funny enough as "The Hat Things", as Smiley billed it - but much funnier when Anna Russell did it. (Look on YouTube!)

It sounds like I would like it a lot less now.

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, wendyg said:

Yes, I remember at least one of the Smileys - Virginia, I think, who once performed what I later realized was Anna Russell's routine on "How to Write Your Own Gilbert & Sullivan". It was funny enough as "The Hat Things", as Smiley billed it - but much funnier when Anna Russell did it. (Look on YouTube!)

It sounds like I would like it a lot less now.

You can still have the same experiences but it’s definitely become more upscale in the past 10 years. The gorgeous outdoors and the lake remain the same. There is a lot of tradition there and they are celebrating the 150th anniversary this year.

It was never the same as shown at the Borscht Belt resorts in the sense of everyone joining in group activities. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, no, I agree. There were always scheduled activities - hayrides, hiking trips, etc. - but it was always up to the guests whether to join in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/30/2018 at 10:55 AM, debraran said:

Off that topic, am I the only one who wonders about birth control before the pill?I know men used (bad) condoms back then and there were messy diaphragms. The number of sexual encounters you see on this show and others of that period without a thought to it, makes me wonder how it wasn't a constant fear.

Just wondering why condoms are “bad”? (Not attacking you) Many men of the area used condoms (especially if they were single) and married couples used them too. (More than heteronormative couples do now because we have other options). In NY at this time a married woman of Midge’s social class would likely have a diaphragm from her doctor. Women used them because it was better than getting pregnant when you didn’t want to be.

 

@Mystery I too was yelling “what about Benjamin??!!” At the screen- because he’s way hotter than Joel and I like him. But I think Midge didn’t go to him because when her father “gave his permission” she realized she had not thought about Benjamin ONCE the entire time she was thinking about her new tour- she shouldn’t marry him and it’s over (we know it’s not really but it’s tv). I think Midge said “yes” to Benjamin because he’s hot and fun, and it’s EXPECTED she marry again. Now that she’s realized she doesn’t have to marry again she can have the career she wants she isn’t going to tie Benjamin down. I don’t think Benjamin would have a problem with her comedy career in the tri-State area, but I think he wants to get married to have a wife who’s home MOST nights, not away most nights. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:
On December 30, 2018 at 10:55 AM, debraran said:

Off that topic, am I the only one who wonders about birth control before the pill?I know men used (bad) condoms back then and there were messy diaphragms. The number of sexual encounters you see on this show and others of that period without a thought to it, makes me wonder how it wasn't a constant fear.

Just wondering why condoms are “bad”? (Not attacking you

@Scarlett45, I assumed that by "bad," @debraran just meant that the condoms of that decade weren't as well made as they are now.
But, anyway, I first had sex (too young) in the 60s, and getting pregnant was a constant fear until I was either on the pill, or in a situation where I was okay with the idea of getting pregnant if/when other birth control failed, or in a situation where I wasn't having sex, or way past menopause.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
58 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

@Scarlett45, I assumed that by "bad," @debraran just meant that the condoms of that decade weren't as well made as they are now.
But, anyway, I first had sex (too young) in the 60s, and getting pregnant was a constant fear until I was either on the pill, or in a situation where I was okay with the idea of getting pregnant if/when other birth control failed, or in a situation where I wasn't having sex, or way past menopause.

Yes I was reading descriptions of them from beginning to today. Definitely BiG improvements :) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

@Scarlett45, I assumed that by "bad," @debraran just meant that the condoms of that decade weren't as well made as they are now.
But, anyway, I first had sex (too young) in the 60s, and getting pregnant was a constant fear until I was either on the pill, or in a situation where I was okay with the idea of getting pregnant if/when other birth control failed, or in a situation where I wasn't having sex, or way past menopause.

Oh I see!

My Grandmothers and great aunts used diaphragms, condoms and spermicide as their contraception. They complained that diaphragms were much easier for them as married women (easier to get). 

As a sexually active woman who’s 33 but not in a committed relationship, I’ve always feared HIV & herpes more than pregnancy. Small joys. 

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Yes I was reading descriptions of them from beginning to today. Definitely BiG improvements :) 

Ah- I believe they were thicker then, didn’t come in different sizes and weren’t made out of latex but rubber? When was latex invented?? My search says 1920, but I’m sure they’ve improved over the years. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I believe they were thicker then, didn’t come in different sizes and weren’t made out of latex but rubber? When was latex invented?? My search says 1920, but I’m sure they’ve improved over the years. 

I fell down a rabbit hole trying to figure this out myself. No luck..although I did find these facts.

  The first rubber condom was produced in 1855.
 A main advantage of rubber condoms was their reusability, making them a more economical choice in the long term. 
    In 1935, a biochemist tested 2000 condoms by filling each one with air and then water: he found that 60% of them leaked.
  The insult term scumbag was originally a slang word for condom. 😁

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

I fell down a rabbit hole trying to figure this out myself. No luck..although I did find these facts.

  The first rubber condom was produced in 1855.
 A main advantage of rubber condoms was their reusability, making them a more economical choice in the long term. 
    In 1935, a biochemist tested 2000 condoms by filling each one with air and then water: he found that 60% of them leaked.
  The insult term scumbag was originally a slang word for condom. 😁

This is maybe too much info but lubricant came end of 50's. I was interested in the first ones. Yikes!

https://spafe.com.au/history-of-condoms/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, debraran said:

This is maybe too much info but lubricant came end of 50's. I was interested in the first ones. Yikes!

https://spafe.com.au/history-of-condoms/

That was fascinating to read. (and now I've officially learned more than I ever needed to know about the history of the condom.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

More than Midge’s standup, I’m amused at the narrative Joel is being forced into when the character has specifically said and done the exact opposite with little pushback. He had no problem with Midge having a career as a comic but did not like having their sex life aired on stage. I think that’s fair. But Midge is probably too hurt to consider leaving that material on the table yet. That’s also fair. They both have valid POVs but are at an impasse right now. Very human.

Joel is not jealous or acting out of “privilege,” maleness, “patriarchy”, or “whiteness.” As a human being he does not want his personal life up on stage and that is understandable. If he were really jealous and wanted to quash Midge, he wouldn’t have come to her defense to their families, been excited for her gigs, or otherwise shown support. I am glad the show didn’t take the easy route and make him a “No wife of mine” guy. His sleeping around is gross and he shouldn’t do it, but the difference between that and his fury at finding out Midge is seeing someone seriously is that it was apparently understood between him and his dates that this was nothing at all permanent. He doesn’t have the right to be angry at Midge for the kids meeting Benjamin when it wasn’t her fault, but she was seeing him as a potential husband and the models were all clearly one-nighters.

I am an artist and my husband is extremely supportive and fine with even being joked about, but there are certain aspects of our lives he wants to keep private, so out of respect for him I do so. But I can completely understand why Midge is not ready to do this for Joel (I wouldn't!)

Quote

I think Amy Sherman-Paladino is in such love with Midge she gave the less likeable characteristics of Joan Rivers to another character. 

I think Midge IS Amy Sherman-Paladino, much as Lorelai was, which is why the characters are constantly being told how beautiful and amazing they are. Rory was Young Amy. All are Mary Sues. 

The best human being in this entire program is Imogene for always being excited for Midge, loving Baby In a Drawer, and most of all forgiving and forgetting regarding the baby shower (although I'm not exactly sure why she got a baby shower for a third baby.) 

Sewell was a treat and yumtastic, although I resented his character basically existing as a prop for showing us how infallibly wonderful and irresistible Midge is. The actor who plays Lenny Bruce steals every single scene with his sexy pathos and sarcasm. 

Edited by LadyKenobi
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

More than Midge’s standup, I’m amused at the narrative Joel is being forced into when the character has specifically said and done the exact opposite with little pushback. He had no problem with Midge having a career as a comic but did not like having their sex life aired on stage. I think that’s fair. But Midge is probably too hurt to consider leaving that material on the table yet. That’s also fair. They both have valid POVs but are at an impasse right now. Very human.

Joel is not jealous or acting out of “privilege,” maleness, “patriarchy”, or “whiteness.” As a human being he does not want his personal life up on stage and that is understandable. If he were really jealous and wanted to quash Midge, he wouldn’t have come to her defense to their families, been excited for her gigs, or otherwise shown support. I am glad the show didn’t take the easy route and make him a “No wife of mine” guy. His sleeping around is gross and he shouldn’t do it, but the difference between that and his fury at finding out Midge is seeing someone seriously is that it was apparently understood between him and his dates that this was nothing at all permanent. He doesn’t have the right to be angry at Midge for the kids meeting Benjamin when it wasn’t her fault, but she was seeing him as a potential husband and the models were all clearly one-nighters.

I am an artist and my husband is extremely supportive and fine with even being joked about, but there are certain aspects of our lives he wants to keep private, so out of respect for him I do so. But I can completely understand why Midge is not ready to do this for Joel (I wouldn't!)

I think Midge IS Amy Sherman-Paladino, much as Lorelai was, which is why the characters are constantly being told how beautiful and amazing they are. Both are Mary Sues. 

The best human being in this entire program is Imogene for always being excited for Midge, loving Baby In a Drawer, and most of all forgiving and forgetting regarding the baby shower (although I'm not exactly sure why she got a baby shower for a third baby.) 

Sewell was a treat and yumtastic, although I resented his character basically existing as a prop for showing us how infallibly wonderful and irresistible Midge is. The actor who plays Lenny Bruce steals every single scene with his sexy pathos and sarcasm. 

Imogene is darling. One thing I thought was strange was that she was so excited about having the third baby and completing her three before thirty goal but her husband was going bonkers. He seemed to hate the idea that there would be 3 small children at home and was kind of panicking about having to support his growing family. I hope that is not a sign of trouble in their marriage.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, qtpye said:

I hope that is not a sign of trouble in their marriage.

I think it's more a sign of what the show sees as the trouble with many marriages in that milieu: brave false fronts, and separate inner lives. No second thoughts expressed, no sharing of misgivings about the price of striving to conform and yet excel, of pursuing goals not of one's choosing. Midge and Joel, at any rate, do talk candidly about what matters most. 

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

One thing I thought was strange was that she was so excited about having the third baby and completing her three before thirty goal but her husband was going bonkers. He seemed to hate the idea that there would be 3 small children at home and was kind of panicking about having to support his growing family.

That's an interesting observation. The issue of "women doing whatever men want" is up in our faces in this show, but here is an example of men trying to meet the expectation of women.

Share this post


Link to post

Hopefully my computer won't kick me off before I finish this one...

Midge; I want to be her, or at least have her body and closet.

Joel; A schlub who I couldn't stand, but have grown to not hate and maybe even like a little.

Wisemans; The island of calm in a sea of chaos. I love Shalhoub and Hinkle but found Paris boring. 

Maisels; The perfect foil to the Wisemans to whom appearances are very important thus taking Joel's money, outplaying the mah jong ladies, etc.

Suzie; Love her too, and the ying yang relationship with Midge.

Ben; Knew he looked familiar. I wish he'd had more to do.

Sophie; Found the character grating, but loved seeing the onstage vs. offstage persona. Love Lynch.

Lenny Bruce; I find this character confusing/boring. I wish there was more interaction between him and Midge.

Ultimately I love this show for what it is. A fantasy version of the past and great entertainment. A needed break from "reality shows". 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×