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From reading both books written by the girls, I got the impression that Michelle was too clingy with the other two after they got out.

They had their families and big welcome home parties and Michelle had nothing. She wanted to talk to and see Gina and Amanda every day and I think they just wanted to move on.

Michelle breaks my heart. I cried many times while reading her book. The girl has had a horrible life. I truly hope the rest of her life is wonderful for her.

Every time I see Michelle I want to wrap her in my arms and give her a hug.

Edited by Maharincess
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Maharincess, I agree. I read Michelle's book when it first came out and I just finished Hope. What struck me immediately was how differently the girls characterized their relationship. Michelle referred to the other two as her sisters and best friends and Amanda and Gina basically said they didn't like her through most of their captivity. Amanda tried to say it in the nicest way possible but it was pretty easy to read between the lines.

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Oh wow. As much as I think Michelle deserves all the happiness in the world, this makes me nervous. She's making a lot of money off her book and that tends to attract leeches. I hope she has good advisors who are keeping an eye on her finances.

Gina is very child~like as well, I pray family and friends aren't taking advantage of these girls. Amanda seems pretty street smart so I think she'll be okay.

Edited by BitterApple
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I think someone is taking care of their profits (books) and will keep their money safe.  These girls missed so much and taking care of money is one thing on the list.  

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From reading both books written by the girls, I got the impression that Michelle was too clingy with the other two after they got out.

They had their families and big welcome home parties and Michelle had nothing. She wanted to talk to and see Gina and Amanda every day and I think they just wanted to move on.

Michelle breaks my heart. I cried many times while reading her book. The girl has had a horrible life. I truly hope the rest of her life is wonderful for her.

Every time I see Michelle I want to wrap her in my arms and give her a hug.

 

This would make sense, but Amanda was already practically denying Michelle's existence when she broke out.  I've had a bad feeling about that since day one.  As alluded to upthread, Michelle was the whipping boy.  When children grow up in a severely abusive home, they frequently go along with the abusive parent and abuse the whipping boy.  I've always gotten the impression that Amanda would have happily left Michelle behind, chained in that bedroom.  I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's left me with a distaste for Amanda.

 

Part of Michelle seeming mentally disabled, is the hearing loss she sustained from Castro's abuse.

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This would make sense, but Amanda was already practically denying Michelle's existence when she broke out. I've had a bad feeling about that since day one. As alluded to upthread, Michelle was the whipping boy. When children grow up in a severely abusive home, they frequently go along with the abusive parent and abuse the whipping boy. I've always gotten the impression that Amanda would have happily left Michelle behind, chained in that bedroom. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's left me with a distaste for Amanda.

Part of Michelle seeming mentally disabled, is the hearing loss she sustained from Castro's abuse.

We will never really know why but it fascinating that both Gina and Amanda in some interviews don't even acknowledge Michelle 's existence. I watched an interview with them on Greta and Michelle was never mentioned.

I also didn't know of that Amanda only mentioned herself and Gina on the 911 call, wow.

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We will never really know why but it fascinating that both Gina and Amanda in some interviews don't even acknowledge Michelle 's existence. I watched an interview with them on Greta and Michelle was never mentioned.

I also didn't know of that Amanda only mentioned herself and Gina on the 911 call, wow.

Not only her call but when Charles Ramsey called 911 he stated that Amanda told him a guy had kidnapped her and her daughter, she made no mention of Michelle OR Gina. Of course she was probably in total panic mode, but that's a rather huge piece of the puzzle to leave out, don't you think?

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I think Castro thought Michelle was a child due to her size. Gina and Amanda were teens when they got kidnapped. I feel so bad for these girls. I do believe there's more to the story they aren't sharing. I feel the worst for Michelle. She came from an abusive home, was a run away then got pregnant. Her son was what kept her alive and hoping. Then to finally be free and to know he's been adopted and the adopted family wants nothing to do with you is sad. On top of that she didn't have a party or family to come home to.

Castro tries to break these girls down especially Michelle. But she was strong and wouldn't let him. I suspect when Castro found out she was 21 he took all his anger out on Michelle. He has a serious hate relationship with women. Amanda on the other hand played his game. She knew how to manipulate castro. I feel so sad these poor innocent girls had to go through this.

I don't believe no one knew for 10 years he wasn't doing this shit to these girls. Someone anyone had to know what was up. I also don't believe this is Castro first time doing something like this.

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I definitely feel the worst for Michelle, and in my personal opinion, Amanda and Gina continue to victimize her.  They have ostracized her, and it bothers me that no one ever questions them on it.  Sure they were victimized horribly as well, but they are accountable for how they've treated her since their release.  I still cannot believe that Amanda didn't even mention Michelle to the 911 operator.  That is unforgiveable.

 

As to anyone knowing what was going on, in the Lifetime movie, Castro dragged Michelle into the back yard with chains on, and the neighbor saw.  I believe the incident was taken from Michelle's book, but I'm not positive.

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In Michelle's book, Castro's neighbor called the police to report that he saw a woman in chains on all fours in the backyard being kicked by Castro. The cops never came and the neighbor never followed up.

I also feel the worst for Michelle. The other girls had all of their family and friends at their homecoming, it was just Michelle alone in an empty hotel room.

I understand a situation like this is unprecedented in adoptions but something should have been done for her to see her son.

The last I heard he hadn't even been told that the woman from the Cleveland kidnappings is his mother.

Hopefully he'll find out who she is and seek her out when he's of age.

I also agree that somebody else knew what Castro was doing to those girls. There's no way he can keep three girls for 10 years and nobody knew.

Edited by Maharincess
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I always found it bizarre that Castro's family and friends came to the house on multiple occasions yet never sensed something was off. They didn't find it weird when he would never let them go upstairs or down to the basement? I get that hindsight is 20/20, but still.

I try to remain objective but it's hard not to judge Amanda and Gina for their treatment of Michelle. They didn't even come to visit or say good-bye while they were all in the hospital and Michelle had to remain behind. Fortunatel Michelle had some great advocates in her corner, but it's not the same as friends or family.

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I think they're treating Michelle badly and there's just no excuse for it in my opinion.

She would take rapes and punishments meant for Gina. She would beg him to hurt her instead of Gina.

They say that they were pitted against each other by Castro. If they're aware of that fact and know that most of what he told them was bullish then why are they still shunning her?

Michelle delivered and saved the life of Amanda's baby, that should count for something. I didn't know until recently that Amanda didn't even mention Michelle in the 911 call. I just don't understand how they can treat her this way. They shared something horrific together. I can't think of anything that would warrant their treatment of Michelle.

Amanda even rolled her eyes at the mention of Michelle during an interview.

I just wish they'd be honest about it because it's making them look bad, like they think they're too good for her.

All just my opinion of course.

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I have a feeling (based on nothing but my gut), that it is more than just these girls being pitted against each other; like maybe they actually participated in some of Michelle's abuse and are afraid to admit the extent of their own actions.  Just a thought.

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 I don't see any wrong doing in Amanda and Gina for their position on Michele now.  A very sick little society was created in that house and that was their reality for many years.  They are reacting out of a need to seek some normalcy in their life.  If being involved with Michele threatens that, and I think it does, it is wise to focus on their own mental health and future.  I think they are getting a lot of help and not making these decisions alone.  

 

Michele's son will be told when he is an adult, if he has a desire to know his birth mother.  Some people do not.   I support the adoptive parents keeping Michele out of their life.  The story is too traumatic for a child to understand.  

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Did anyone watch The Sweetheart Swindle?  It was really nuts and had a lot of fucked up stuff in it that any true crime fan would appreciate.  I can't believe they named a baby Georgio Armani, that's seriously so disgusting and shallow to me.  It was so awesome that the one cop knew something was up just by driving by the psychic shop under construction and noticing how long it was taking and the type of cars parked outside.  And then she even said to the other officer who had jurisdiction, "What are we going to do about that psychic shop?" haha so badass.

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That Sweetheart Swindle story was unbelievable.  It was so cool that the smart lady cop happened to be sitting in a seminar with other people who could work this complex case with her.  It was sad seeing that simple old man looking out at the clearcut areas where his beloved trees used to grow.

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I just finished reading Michelle's book. Man, I really feel for that girl. I haven't read any other books or watched any interviews.

 

I find myself wondering how those social workers whose meeting she missed on the day Castro kidnapped her feel if they happen to read her book and her description of that day. How she was frantically trying to find transportation to get to the meeting about her son, and in a moment of desperation, ended up in a car with Castro... only to be tortured for the next decade of her life.

 

I know they were "only doing their job" but its got to make them feel sick inside.

I found myself thinking that if her son had not been removed from her care.... its doubtful she ever would have ended up kidnapped. I wonder if she ever thinks about it in those terms.

 

I hope when her son is older, he is told the truth about his mom, and he gets to read her book. I can't imagine finding out the story of how your mother loved you so much and then through a series of bad events, you ended up being taken from her and then she spent all that time being tortured. I hope he will be open to a relationship with her. I think she deserves that.

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Did anyone watch the story about the boys known as The Wolfpack? They spent their entire lives locked away from society. What they did during that time and how it led to them meeting actor Robert DeNiro, makes for one horrible and yet, uplifting story.

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Yes, Kazu. Pretty fascinating. I would like to see the entire documentary. I had a lot of questions about the father (and the mother too!)

Edited by bref
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Yes, I agree. That segment left me with more questions than answers. The story went from the kid leaving the apartment to suddenly all the brothers were out and about with mention about an ambulance ride to a mental facility. But what about the parents? Didn't the authorities check on their situation at home? So many questions.

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Watching Wolfpack now.   What I didn't understand is there were 7 kids - 6 boys and a girl.  And then all the show talked about was the 6 boys.  At the beginning it was said she had a "genetic disorder."  Then she seemed to be there at the family reunion with them, maybe?

 

And I didn't understand how, once one kid left, the others just walked around freely, encountered the movie maker, invites her home with them,  and suddenly they are doing every thing they want, having fun, making friends.  What about the super-controlling dad?  How did he react to the one boy escaping?  Once one left, he gave up? 

I also wondered if there was a falling out with one of the boys.   On the red carpet, the meeting with DeNiro, a lot of the scenes in the last half of the movie, only included 5 of the brothers. 

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I found this fascinating. So fascinating that I Googled it. It seems that the documentary left a lot of questions unanswered as well. Some reviewers think it is a hoax because the boys seem relatively normal and socialized. But at this point, they have been free for five years. There were six boys, yet they really only feature five. I read that one of the older boys is reclusive and seems more damaged. Great story, but I think I think the documentary filmmaker was in fashion and didn't investigate the way an experienced documentarian might have.

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The Denise Huskins case was interesting. It aired last night, Fri 07.17.2015. Wow.


The eppy title is "Stranger Than Fiction" .... indeed.

Edited by ari333
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Premiere edition of 20/20 from 6/6/78; this was the disastrous premiere that led to Hugh Downs coming in the second week, and staying until 1999 (Barbara Walters becoming his co-anchor in 1984)

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Just finished watching 'The War Next Door'.  I think all of the neighbors involved in the neighborhood dispute behaved like schoolyard bullies towards each other.  Still, that doesn't entitle Mr. (Billy) Woodward to crawl over to their houses late one night and start shooting.  I agree with the judge that it wasn't a case of 'Stand Your Ground'.  It was a case of a man who enjoyed using his PTSD as an excuse for his own bad behavior who tried to get away with shooting his neighbors and using a badly worded law to get off.

 

The worst thing was, each of the three families involved were all planning to move away.  They all would have been gone within 30 days, and one of the men who died was planning on moving the following weekend.

 

Just my opinion, but I won't be surprised if he's convicted of murder and attempted murder.

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I could not believe how these neighbors acted. All over a birthday present that went missing.

Mr Woodward was wrong completely wrong, but the idea that these people had threatened to have his 12 year old daughter raped and the constant harassment I'm sure was maddening.

The man who survived and his wife should hang their heads in shame. It had nothing to do with them and yet they joined in on the taunting. The whole group should be embarrassed about how they behaved. The whole thing was crazy, that people would act like this and say the things they were saying is just unbelievable.

I missed the last 15 but I'm sure he will get convicted and should.

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Did I hear correctly during his hearing that he had not actually ever been in active combat?  If so, why would his "battlefield mentality PTSD" be kicking in?  Was he just a wannabe Rambo?  So many questions ... so many crazy people.

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He'd never actually been in combat?  I missed that part.

 

I'm not sure.  During the hearing he was asked something about infantry, and his answer was "zero", but I missed the question and the rest of his answer ...

 

Hoping somebody was paying closer attention.  :-)

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I'm not sure.  During the hearing he was asked something about infantry, and his answer was "zero", but I missed the question and the rest of his answer ...

 

Hoping somebody was paying closer attention.  :-)

I heard what you heard, so I'm not sure, but that was something Deborah Roberts should have honed in on.  I think she didn't/doesn't want to alienate the wife to ensure future co-operation.  It would appear "his service" was something other than infantry, but who knows 'cause nobody's telling!!!

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Sad situation all around. Those neighbors were trashy and egged the guy on once they found the buttons to push. Immature a-holes who ruin peaceful neighborhoods IMO. I'm sure they were noisy, rude, aggressive etc. but no one should have been dead at the end of the day. Mr. Woodward was wrong and should be held accountable for killing the neighbor.

I don't see how Stand Your Ground could apply when he wasn't on his own property. I was also confused how he has PTSD if he didn't have battlefield experience. I know people can be diagnosed with it as result of abuse or trauma, but they didn't make it clear in this story what caused Billy's PTSD.

The kicker in this story was the fact that everyone was moving out in a matter of days!

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Diane Downs: "Diane Downs was convicted in 1983 for the murder of her daughter and the attempted murder of her 2 other children"

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I just took this off my DVR.  The shows are like the ID channel.  There are enough shows about murder and who done it.   I do watch them sometimes but become bored very quickly.  

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I am so glad that karma eventually caught up with Simpson.  I remember listening to the criminal case verdict and being floored. 

 

Being the same age as Ron Goldman, I always felt a special kind of grief over his fate and ached for his family, particularly when he was referred to as "the other victim" or "Nicole's friend."  One thing Daniel Petrocelli brought up in the civil trial, although not mentioned in this program, was that if Simpson was truly innocent, wouldn't Ron Goldman have been a hero to him?  This young man could have run but instead attempted to save the mother of Simpson's children and lost his life in the process.  Instead of mocking him, Simpson should have been commending him and thanking Fred Goldman for his son's sacrifice.  The fact that he didn't, that he mocked Ron and the Goldman family, speaks volumes.

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He may be out in 4 more years.  I googled him and there are several articles on him being beaten in prison and him hiring another inmate as a body guard.  Hard to know how much of this is true, the sites are known to print junk.  

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All that OJ trial fustercluck was worth it just to see the shit eating grin leaving his fuckface when he was finally convicted of something.  I could watch that moment on an endless loop.

Edited by walnutqueen
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“His story was, ‘well yeah, that’s me in the picture, but those are not my shoes,’” Petrocelli told “20/20.” “He says, ‘I don’t remember what shoes I had on that day… but I didn’t have those shoes on,’ because he knew that those were the killer’s shoes.”

This made me laugh. He is such a moron. Those are not my shoes even though I had those shoes. The most interesting thing I heard from the 20/20 report was the speculation that Simpson had arthritis and he wasn't taking his medication and that's why the gloves "didn't fit" though Clark and Darden never pressed him on that point so that was a huge screw-up on their part.

Edited by Sarahsmile416
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...and the look on his face when he saw pics of him wearing the ugly ass shoes.  

 

Wordy McWord WORD!

 

 

“His story was, ‘well yeah, that’s me in the picture, but those are not my shoes,’” Petrocelli told “20/20.” “He says, ‘I don’t remember what shoes I had on that day… but I didn’t have those shoes on,’ because he knew that those were the killer’s shoes.”

This made me laugh. He is such a moron. Those are not my shoes even though I had those shoes. The most interesting thing I heard from the 20/20 report was the speculation that Simpson had arthritis and he wasn't taking his medication and that's why the gloves "didn't fit" though Clark and Darden never pressed him on that point so that was a huge screw-up on their part.

 

OMG, I almost forgot about that little nugget, as did the prosecutors (maybe?) and the jury on the original trial.  It's like somebody dropped a moron bomb all over that courtroom  - I know I lost a few IQ points just by watching that trial on my TeeVee  ...

Edited by walnutqueen
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I had heard the story about him not taking his arthritis medicine so his hands would be swollen before. I forget where I read it.

He's just such an arrogant fuck. I don't know how Fred Goldman was able to sit at the same table with him during those depositions. It must have been so hard to sit there and see him laugh and make light of it.

I love the karma of him being sentenced on the anniversary of the murders. I also love that Fred and Kim Goldman were there in court to see it.

I don't believe in god, but I firmly believe in karma. That sweet bitch will always get you in the end.

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