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PrincessPurrsALot

S08.E09: Fire and Reign

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Sooooo.... Could there be a chance they don't go with the time traveling story? Maybe a twist that Michael changes his mind or something. Not that this season makes sense or anything, but I noticed they made reference numerous times that he has some good in him. Maybe he makes things go back to the way they were? Maybe this was all some sort of test and not real, to really mess with viewer's heads? 

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16 minutes ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Sooooo.... Could there be a chance they don't go with the time traveling story? Maybe a twist that Michael changes his mind or something. Not that this season makes sense or anything, but I noticed they made reference numerous times that he has some good in him. Maybe he makes things go back to the way they were? Maybe this was all some sort of test and not real, to really mess with viewer's heads? 

I'm truly hoping this whole season turns out to be a dream. I would actually rather that than the time travel only because it would be a twist we legit didn't see coming. Regardless of how they tie it up, Michael is as good as dead. They're killing him off.

 

ETA: Anyone else think Maloory's powers are weakening/being drained?

Edited by sashayshante
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2 hours ago, dvil said:

Even if the witches go back in time and reset events, the world's still run by Satanist members of The Cooperative. I wonder how that ties into the ending of Cult.

I hope the next episode addresses the killing of the warlocks and Zoe's resurrection.

I was hoping venerable would have been part of scum. 

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Oi vey!  The “Romanovs”??   Really???

What a complete waste of time that ridiculous sub plot was (not to mention historically inaccurate in about 100 ways) - Grand Duchess Anastasia of course was the daughter that a mentally deranged woman claimed to be until it was finally proven thru DNA she was a Polish factory worker.  Poor Anastasia has been through enough - can’t writers just leave the poor murdered girl and her family alone?  It accomplished nothing beyond once more being fodder for some writer’s bad knowledge of Russian History.  Below is a photo of the real Grand Duchess Anastasia.  I hate the disrespectful way they use her tragic story.95DBA70B-8B1D-49ED-9957-9CF542F7D26A.jpeg.17590fcd2a5d471df437de1282c7150c.jpeg

How they are going to wrap up this “going in 10 different directions” show in one episode????  It would be genius if they could make any sense at this point.

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ANOTHER episode in which nothing much really happened.  I feel like this season would have been better if RM had just shown us the first and last episodes.  That's it.  The rest was just completely unnecessary and didn't make a whole lot of sense most of the time.  So much crap introduced that was just unnecessary useless filler.  RM really needs to step it up.  And hire more actors!

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:04 PM, WednesdayAddams said:

Another episode that could have been condensed.

On 11/7/2018 at 8:05 PM, sashayshante said:

That was marginally better than last week

Yep. Cut it to 25, add it to last weeks cut down 20 and it could have been a pretty solid plot advancing episode and left two full hours for a decent wrap....theoretically. Realistically... Is it socially acceptable enough to suggest that Ryan Murphy kill himself?

 

22 hours ago, llewis823 said:

I loved Murder House and Freak Show and thought Asylum was pretty good (except for the musical acts - I cannot say it enough - I LOATHE MUSICALS) And I liked Liz Taylor and Kathy Bates' characters in Hotel (and the cool art nouveau architechture/decorating of the hotel) but couldn't stand GaGa and the whole "storyline" (for lack of better terms).

Oh, and with all of us wanting them to get back to present time, did anyone else yell at the TV screen when they went back even further to 1918???? GEEEZZZ

Pretty much all of this gets a nod from me. Murder House through to Freak Show were all pretty even, I thought, but I remember feeling Asylum had the overall edge. Musicals don't really bother me, depending on subject matter (Sweeney Todd was awesome!) but I don't recall any musical acts in Asylum - I need to go back and watch them all to see how they hold up. Agreed with 'Liz Taylor' and Kathy Bates being the best parts of Hotel, along with Evan Peters as March and the hotel itself. I didn't hate it but..... Hotel through to Apocalypse is kind of like a Shit Burger, where the best part is the stale wonderbread bun-halves of Hotel and Cult, Roanoke is the cow-flop patty and Apocalypse is the dried horse turd garnish on a toothpick  which at least affords you the option of poking your eyeballs out. Again, I'd have to re-watch but I think I'd give a slight edge to Cult over Hotel because I remember feeling the narrative was more coherent and I liked the subject matter if not the characters so much.

 

Yes, I believe it was an incredulously laced "oh, fuck OFF!"

21 hours ago, sashayshante said:

I guess Lily Rabe wasn't available for more than one episode?

Can't see why she wouldn't be, Imdb doesn't show her doing much; A movie with a January 2019 release, four episodes of a tv show after that in June and a movie in pre-production with no release date confirmed.

 

18 hours ago, sashayshante said:

half the viewing audience still wonders how all of this stuff is going on after The Apocalypse, not realizing that we've been watching flashbacks.

A friend of mine bailed halfway through and I'm pretty sure this had something to do with it. She said the plot made zero sense and she was done, never to return. As it stands, I think I'm about ready to dust off the old steel toes and put them on the warmer myself, lol.  ;)

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On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:33 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Original air date: 2018.11.07

Nope. We weren't really lucky. There was no development.  I have one question though, based on past seasons. Why do people think that the witches will win? I fully believe Michael will win this one and we will be left with no answers. I was onboard with this season until the past couple of episodes. Now, I'm bored with Michael. Think he is just whiney and dreadful. Cordelia KNOWS that the apocalypse is coming, but she doesn't care about the world, just the few witches. The new Voodoo priestess knows about the apocalypse, and chastised Cordelia over putting the souls of a few witches over a billion people- but helped Michael kill the few that could stop him.  This is getting worse. And for some reason- every character is being played by the same handful of actors.

And what a waste of Dame Joan Collins. I mean, I would have paid for a confrontation between Lange and Collins!  That scene could have been AWESOME! And you're bringing back all of these characters from past seasons- but NOT Liz Taylor?

Ugh.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:29 AM, sashayshante said:

Can we also discuss Cordelia's plan to protect her girls but yet lets Misty leave to flit around with Stevie Nicks knowing Michael is out there looking to kill all the witches? I guess Lily Rabe wasn't available for more than one episode?

The fact that Coco is always conveniently spared/saved lends credence to the theory that she, not Mallory, is the true Supreme. She got led out of the poison apple party by Brock, Mallory was able to save her from a death by snowball, now she's in the cabin while Zoe and Queenie were left to die, unprotected.

Lily Rabe can only be in one episode because she has far too much acting talent. If we were to see her in several other characters, then we would notice how BAD Billie and Coco are at acting. Oh wait- we were already clued in on that. Must chalk the Coco thing up to her being one of Murphy's besties.

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3 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Musicals don't really bother me, depending on subject matter (Sweeney Todd was awesome!) but I don't recall any musical acts in Asylum - I need to go back and watch them all to see how they hold up.

There's only one musical number, where the cast is singing - thats the Name Game scene and that really works because it's kind of an insight into Sister Jude's post electroshock mind scramble. There's possibly two other scenes that don't involve singing but do have a heavy musical soundtrack- Sister Jude's fantasy sexual encounter with Father Timothy, and the crucifixion of Father Timothy/attempted rape of Sister Jude by the Xmas Killer. The season that was heavy with actual cast singing was Freaks.

I accept that any sort of crossover is likely to displease me, I'm picky. This has been throwing too much up against the wall - did we need the Hotel cross? Or Stevie Nicks?

4 minutes ago, Bali said:

I have one question though, based on past seasons. Why do people think that the witches will win? I fully believe Michael will win this one and we will be left with no answers. I was onboard with this season until the past couple of episodes. Now, I'm bored with Michael. Think he is just whiney and dreadful.

Because, as Agent Scully of the X-Files always said - "God never lets the Devil steal the show" - a story about the Antichrist will always end with the AntiChrist's defeat. It's in Revelations. Heck, even the Left Behind book series makes the point. The Antichrist never wins.

Now, do I think that some dark shit will be pulled out of the ass of Ryan Murphy? Yes. But if he's going to go against the basic trope... it will need to be VERY good and so far, I really don't see any signs that we're gonna see something shocking. I think the potentially shocking idea is that this tv show might depict someone executing an infant and there is certainly shock value to be had but a)the plot is leading that way and b)I've watched Rick Grimes shoot little girls in the head one too many times to do more than yawn at innocence being struck down. 

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On 11/8/2018 at 12:58 AM, 100Proof said:

Isn't she belonging to some voodoo sect and a sort of natural adversary of the witches?

I think the thing is that she is basically a mercenary; she sells her services to the highest bidder. In this case, it was the Anti-Christ.

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15 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Was Sarah Paulson born with a harelip?  

Doubt that, but she does have a bit of a lisp. If she was a he, might sound like daffy duck

Edited by 100Proof
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I don't think Cordelia knows about the impending Apocalypse. I think the vision she had convinced her that the witches were in trouble because she saw Miss Robicheaux's Academy destroyed. At the point she has the vision, she's right. Even Michael at that point didn't know apocalypse. He just wanted to kill off the witches and warlocks so he could have total power. I think she only learns of the Apocalypse in the finale, because of course.

I'm tagging this because this info has been all over social media so I think there's truth to it:

Spoiler

Fans saw Billie Lourde on The Murder House set, so she does go back in time. They also said someone is pregnant.

 

While I do think Michael will be defeated and killed, I also think there will be a twist of some kind that has Satan winning in the end. They made sure to remind people that the other baby existed by having him cry in Return To Murder House, so I'm really, really  REALLY hoping the other baby comes into play somehow. That would be the only twist I would find worthwhile.

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1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Because, as Agent Scully of the X-Files always said - "God never lets the Devil steal the show" - a story about the Antichrist will always end with the AntiChrist's defeat. It's in Revelations. Heck, even the Left Behind book series makes the point. The Antichrist never wins.

Now, do I think that some dark shit will be pulled out of the ass of Ryan Murphy? Yes. But if he's going to go against the basic trope... it will need to be VERY good and so far, I really don't see any signs that we're gonna see something shocking.

I agree with that sentiment. But recently, Ryan Murphy never ceases to disappoint me. That's why I really think that in this thing (sorry at this point, can't call it a story- too disjointed) the witches are going to die and Michael will win. Also- every season of AHS has had massive death of the main characters, so that also makes me think that the witches are going to die and Michael will win. I am predicting (Based on nothing) that next week will have a large blood count with some schlocky end scene with a goofy camera angle of Michael all covered in blood, but his hair will not be messed up- roll credits. I really- REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this ending with anything that I will be happy with. (And we still aren't going to know why the genetic kids were there.)

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48 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

Even Michael at that point didn't know apocalypse. He just wanted to kill off the witches and warlocks so he could have total power.

If Michael wants power, wouldn't he rather be heading the Cooperative in ruling the world, rather than just ordering around a few people in fallout shelters after everything else has been destroyed?

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Since the only creative or storytelling course this show seems to be on now is addressing curiosities we may or may not have after the early episodes, the finale still needs to show us: How did they genetically identify our Adam and Eve and why; What's the significance in Michael's mind of the pre-natal testing that seemed to involved both women and men as capable of gestation?; how did he develop his confidence so much between being so easily manipulated by Mutt and Jeff and being relatively suave post Apocalypse?; identity spells for Coco and Mallory (also, why did Madison do the whole 'it's me bitch' thing with her when she woke up? They haven't been antagonistic in the least in the past, have they? That made it seem like Mallory had given as good as she got from Madison, but I can't remember any tension between them that would be simmering 3 years later; maybe something happens next episode?); i'm sure I'm leaving something out that they'll try and address too, in addition to the obvious task of stopping Michael. Others may have speculated about this too but perhaps Cordelia kills herself in order to empower Mallory to successfully time travel, if it's Cordelia's Supreme presence that's holding her back from her true power. 

Edited by BingeyKohan
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I may not be interpreting your comment correctly, but i believe he *is* heading the Cooperative. In fact, my guess would be that he went from Outpost to Outpost and killed everybody off. Once Langdon had their money, why keep them around?  If the point of The Apocalypse was to rid the world of greed, poverty, etc then why would you want billionaires aka the greediest, most unethical people to survive? speaking of which, Coco's dad is obviously part of The Cooperative and he knows his daughter is a witch. How does that come in to play? Are we even sure Coco is a witch?

Another question I want answered is where is The Sanctuary? Is it even real?

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39 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

How did they genetically identify our Adam and Eve

Timothy took an Ancestry.com test which required him to submit his DNA, which then got added to a database. Emily's DNA was identified, I think, because she said she was in jail when they came to get her. I assume they identified her through fingerprints or blood.

39 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

why did Madison do the whole 'it's me bitch' thing with her when she woke up?

I think that was nothing more than a call back to Coven. Madison said the same line in Coven and fans loooooved it.

Edited by sashayshante
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39 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I may not be interpreting your comment correctly, but i believe he *is* heading the Cooperative. In fact, my guess would be that he went from Outpost to Outpost and killed everybody off. Once Langdon had their money, why keep them around?  If the point of The Apocalypse was to rid the world of greed, poverty, etc then why would you want billionaires aka the greediest, most unethical people to survive?

But if his interest is power, why kill off the billions of people he's ruling over? The Apocalypse seems more of an Old Testament God, wipe out the wicked, kind of thing, rather than an Antichrist move.

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  1. 1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:
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Sorry, I'm still kind of new to this board and don't know how to make that quote go away.

ANYHOO- There hasn't been a musical number in a long time. So I'm changing my prediction. I now predict Michael traipsing around in his cloak and perfect hair singing, "Kill the Witch" at the end. And a lot of little Munchkins will be running around. And maybe he'll kill the witches, maybe not. Because we all should know by now that Sarah Paulson never gets killed.

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8 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Doubt that, but she does have a bit of a lisp. If she was a he, might sound like daffy duck

The lisping is just hard to ignore at times. She could really benefit from ADR. 

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Why have these billionaires pay anything, if the world is going to end? With no one around, what good is money going to do you? Where is Michael going to be spending this money?  Even if the world didn't end, he could use his powers to get what he wants.

Maybe, he'll bring back the perfect DNA girl to impregnate her? But in episode 2 we see gestation isn't apparently working, so I don't know how it will work this time around. Maybe it has to be a witch to work. I just want answers! 

I hope he wins in the end, because I want a twist ending of some sort.

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That was a much better episode than last week, I actually paid full attention to the episode and didn't catch my mind wandering. I liked all the little answers that were given this week re: stuff that happened in the first 3 episodes. But having said that, like others I have no idea how they are going to wrap up everything with one episode to go. I've also developed the feeling that this whole season was designed for RM to do a follow up to Coven while sticking to the anthology nature of the series. If you ignore the first 3 episodes and last week's whatever that was, the whole series has just been a giant Coven lovefest.

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I love anything apocalyptic in nature, so I've been hugely disappointed with this season.  The first episode started so well and then it just.... stopped.  Nothing much to do with the apocalypse, so I feel like the name of the show this season was very misleading.

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1 hour ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Why have these billionaires pay anything, if the world is going to end? With no one around, what good is money going to do you? Where is Michael going to be spending this money?  Even if the world didn't end, he could use his powers to get what he wants.

Why would billionaires want to bring on the end of the world when the very nature of their deal with the devil means as soon as they die, they lose all the priveledge and go to hell? I mean, this is the basic flaw of the selling your soul to the devil concept. 

There's also the troubling fact that Revelations really does spell out how it always turns out. And we're dealing with the tired trope of the poor Antichrist who doesn't know his daddy and wonders what he should do coupled with how he does a ton of utterly evil shit for no reason at all.

Is it weird that even though I am a woman, I really really angry at the depiction of warlocks as mostly queer and useless and not even really worth being concerned about by the witch supreme? But then I didn't care for the boys versus girls theme in Cult either.

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18 hours ago, Bali said:

And what a waste of Dame Joan Collins. I mean, I would have paid for a confrontation between Lange and Collins!

Lange's in the preview for next week. Who knows?

Besides, Bubbles needs to be resurrected so she can escape to the fallout shelter where Michael presumably will recognize her.

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7 hours ago, Token said:

I love anything apocalyptic in nature, so I've been hugely disappointed with this season.  The first episode started so well and then it just.... stopped.  Nothing much to do with the apocalypse, so I feel like the name of the show this season was very misleading.

Totally! In that early episode when the horses that brought Michael to the outpost got drug off by things we couldn’t see I thought that’s where the ‘horror’ of the season would come in - through whatever desperate creatures the apocalypse created. But nope! Just tech bros snorting cocaine, Madison folding towels, and Coco counting calories. Such an odd way to tell an apocalypse story.

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4 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Totally! In that early episode when the horses that brought Michael to the outpost got drug off by things we couldn’t see I thought that’s where the ‘horror’ of the season would come in - through whatever desperate creatures the apocalypse created. But nope! Just tech bros snorting cocaine, Madison folding towels, and Coco counting calories. Such an odd way to tell an apocalypse story.

Oh my God, I freaking forgot about those creatures!!! What the hell? Add this to my list of unanswered questions. 

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14 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Why have these billionaires pay anything, if the world is going to end? With no one around, what good is money going to do you?

I think the same thing about the preppers/conspiracy nuts who hoard gold. A lot that'll do ya if civilization collapses, lol

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On 11/8/2018 at 11:09 PM, Christi said:

I think all the millionaires were in Bohemian Grove...its in the Bay Area and always fascinated me...pretty cool reference

https://www.messynessychic.com/2016/05/25/bohemian-grove-the-secret-society-summer-camp/

I agree. I think  The Cooperative is probably mimicking The Council of 300 with the true power in the 13 families (if you follow the history of many who report on this). They do meet at places like the Bilderberg Conference (the attendee list is public, what happens is never spoken of). That may be what they are mimicking here. I agree it is made to look like Bohemian Grove. Bohemian Grove only allows men though. I also find it fascinating as every President except Kennedy and Trump attended Bohemian Grove (not a political comment, just fact) before becoming President and they do, in fact, perform a ritual to Molach (yes, a Luciferian ritual) at that giant owl statue. 

Edited by Luckylondon
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21 hours ago, Bali said:
  1.  

Sorry, I'm still kind of new to this board and don't know how to make that quote go away.

ANYHOO- There hasn't been a musical number in a long time. So I'm changing my prediction. I now predict Michael traipsing around in his cloak and perfect hair singing, "Kill the Witch" at the end. And a lot of little Munchkins will be running around. And maybe he'll kill the witches, maybe not. Because we all should know by now that Sarah Paulson never gets killed.

She was killed in Roanoke. 

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On 11/8/2018 at 7:13 PM, WednesdayAddams said:

Sooooo.... Could there be a chance they don't go with the time traveling story? Maybe a twist that Michael changes his mind or something. Not that this season makes sense or anything, but I noticed they made reference numerous times that he has some good in him. Maybe he makes things go back to the way they were? Maybe this was all some sort of test and not real, to really mess with viewer's heads? 

It would be odd given the reference to time in the opening credits (e.g. hour glass). Candles burn out and then reconstruct in the end.

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Well, this one was somewhat better than last week's, but that's not saying much.

 

You know, one of the problems network tv has is that most tv shows run around 22 episodes. That means that you usually end up with a number of "filler" episodes, useless plots, etc. Just stuff to fill time while the main ( and hopefully interesting) plot gets resolved. Therefore, you would think that with show that runs 9-10 episodes, shit would be happening and fast ! No time to waste, showing us 20 minutes of crap about something we already knew. I wouldn't mind the flashback with Dumb and Dumber if they weren't so freaking annoying !

 

I'm going to have 2 free tv hours to fill after this show ends-- The Last Ship ( which has been pretty bad this season also, so I'm glad it's ending) finale is Sunday night. Maybe I'll try a new Netflix original. My nephew says he likes a lot of them, but I haven't found much that sounds good to me, other than Hill House.

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23 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Jesus, the Last Ship is still on??

Well, not now ! Now it's history ( unless you count the rerun of the finale that is playing again right now.) I know shows have to evolve and all, but this one has evolved so far from the basic premise, it's really nuts. Why call a show "The Last Ship " when there are lots of other ships running around the world seas ? But, this is not that board-- but yeah, the show lasted 5 seasons !

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:49 PM, Stallion12 said:

She was killed in Roanoke. 

I stand corrected. In my defense, I've tried to block Roanoke from my mind.

I just came up with a new prediction. There will be an Asylum tie in that we didn't see coming. The Aliens will come and rescue some of the people in the bunker.

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, Rap541 said:

Why would billionaires want to bring on the end of the world when the very nature of their deal with the devil means as soon as they die, they lose all the priveledge and go to hell? I mean, this is the basic flaw of the selling your soul to the devil concept. 

 

This is a good question. But remember- what we've seen on THIS show- these crazy people WANT to burn in hell. They think it's just the best.

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But the billionaires don't die. Not at first. That's why the outposts are created: so they can survive.

The spoilers about the finale are all over redditt. Is there somewhere we can post them/ Can I create a thread for that?

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1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

But the billionaires don't die. Not at first. That's why the outposts are created: so they can survive.

The spoilers about the finale are all over redditt. Is there somewhere we can post them/ Can I create a thread for that?

There's a thread for spoilers. Please post what you've read. I'm curious to know. :)

I agree with those who feel there's been a drop in quality with this show but for me I mark it with Roanoke which was easily, easily the worst season ever of AHS (IMO of course). Cult was a lot better but I didn't feel the need to watch any of the episodes again and it's been the same with this current season.

There's some decent humor in Apocalypse and I enjoyed revisiting Coven and Murder House since those were my two favorite seasons, but it's mostly felt like a wasted opportunity. 

Oh and I love the Joan Collins character/s and hope that Ryan Murphy plans on making her a permanent member of his acting troupe. She's been a highlight in a mostly lackluster season.

Count me in with thinking the Anastasia stuff was unnecessary and felt a little exploitative. For me it's especially annoying because I've been watching Matthew Weiner's The Romanoffs which is another show that basically seems to be cashing in on the hundred year anniversary of the tragedy of the Romanov family without having any meaningful insights into the family to make up for the exploitation factor. Both shows also got simple facts about the family wrong which only adds to the overall irritation. 

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2 hours ago, sashayshante said:

But the billionaires don't die. Not at first. That's why the outposts are created: so they can survive.

From their POV, wouldn't life in the outposts be barely distinguishable from hell? 

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2 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

From their POV, wouldn't life in the outposts be barely distinguishable from hell? 

Yes, Michael’s “pitch” made it sound like they would be paying for luxury accommodations in the bunkers, but that definitely wasn’t the case.

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15 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Yes, Michael’s “pitch” made it sound like they would be paying for luxury accommodations in the bunkers, but that definitely wasn’t the case.

Edited by Luckylondon

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Oh, dear.  Well.  I watched the episode this weekend.  To be honest, I couldn't remember if there had been an episode and was watching something else when it occurred to me, "Hey, wasn't there a Little Blonde Antichrist one I haven't seen yet?"  Yeah.  Not front burner stuff.

So -- wow, what a miserable mess this show is.  I don't really know what to say because, apparently, I'm forgetting about it before I even watch it.  Um.  The two bowl-heads are awful caricatures and are painful to watch in a "I am not enjoying these performances at all" kind of way.  The Little Blonde Antichrist isn't selling it for me.  The Robot Assassin Lady sells it until her atrocious mid-western accent comes in and I imagine her barely laying waste to Milwaukee, let alone being the sidekick responsible for the Apocalypse.  Paulson has shot her wad with this series and needs to take a break -- Jessica Lange did it right.  

What bums me out is that I love Evan Peters and he was SO great in Hotel and Cult.  I'm sorry to see this misshapen blob of a show now.  Even he can't rise above it. 

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16 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

Michael means "godlike" and I wonder if that will have anything to do with the end.

Before the Murder House episode, I kept telling my Mom that I don't think he's the anti-Christ, just because this show, at least in the beginning likes it's twists. I don't know how they'll explain that after the Murder House episode though. Why was a child capable of killing multiple adults? Why the rapid aging? He's not just a warlock, so what is he? 

8 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Yes, but we have already seen what the bunker on this show was like during the first three episodes. Opposite of luxurious!

It's luxurious compared to the nuclear winter outside. So they got that going for them...

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