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S08.E09: Fire and Reign

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The world ended because Evan Peters did not like traffic and the coffee was bad. Yea Billy helped.

I am tired of watching Sarah cry.

Time Travel I knew it!

Michael is a bit of a dope. He was played lol.

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Okay...time management is really not Ryan’s strong suit.

Holy Satan’s shit this episode at the very least should have aired five weeks ago and then been built on from there. 

Next week is the finale and we are still not back in current times, it’s just such a mess. This might be the biggest rushed hack job of any season by far. 

And I swear if the “fix all” for this crap is that Cordelia had the girls’ souls hibernate until the exact moment when Michael approaches them in the future and then she uses that spell to send Mallory back in time somehow to defeat him...it’s almost too awful to think about.  

I don’t know if I would call that the biggest cop out ever or just utter shitball nonsense personified. 

 If Mallory can time travel then why wouldn’t they have sent her back to the point when Michael was nothing more than a defenseless, squalling second old newborn and kill him right then and there?

They just can’t be that stupid about this...right? 

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Another episode that could have been condensed. 

Why is Cordelia so stupid? How could she be surprised that he killed her girls? How could she place any blame on Madison? She knew she was dealing with the damn ANTI-CHRIST!!! 

We all know what's going to happen with Mallory, but I'm over her. 

Is the finale at least longer than an hour and by an hour I mean 37 minutes without commercials?

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That was marginally better than last week, but I'm way over Cordelia's whining about her waning powers and Fiona. I'm also still super pissed they're giving the most integral role in beating Michael to Mallory, the most underdeveloped character/weakest actress.

Just blow this thing up already.

Oh, and so it's pretty obvious that Coco's dad is part of The Cooperative, right?  There's no way Michael didn't lure Cordelia to The Outpost using Coco and Mallory as bait.

Edited by sashayshante
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2 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Okay...time management is really not Ryan’s strong suit.

Holy Satan’s shit this episode at the very least should have aired five weeks ago and then been built on from there. 

Next week is the finale and we are still not back in current times, it’s just such a mess. This might be the biggest rushed hack job of any season by far. 

And I swear if the “fix all” for this crap is that Cordelia had the girls’ souls hibernate until the exact moment when Michael approaches them in the future and then she uses that spell to send Mallory back in time somehow to defeat him...it’s almost too awful to think about.  

I don’t know if I would call that the biggest cop out ever or just utter shitball nonsense personified. 

 If Mallory can time travel then why wouldn’t they have sent her back to the point when Michael was nothing more than a defenseless, squalling second old newborn and kill him right then and there?

They just can’t be that stupid about this...right? 

This season could have been so good if it wasn't for the lack of time management. So rushed.

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15 minutes ago, WednesdayAddams said:

This season could have been so good if it wasn't for the lack of time management. So rushed.

 

I agree, it is actually puzzling to me that they would shorten a season based on this kind of subject material.

I would’ve thought that Ryan would’ve been all over wanting to extend this season as long as he could and jam pack it full of things right from the get go, but it is if they just wanted to drag so much of it out slowly, leave a lot of it underdeveloped, unexplained, and now before you know it it barely seems as if the show has gotten started and now it’s ending. 

 

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Oh, yeah. Annndddd..the whole reason Michael creates the Apocalypse is to kill 5 witches. Because, apparently, there was no other way for him to do that.

If only he was born with supernatural powers....

 

 

 And we mustn’t forget that apparently the witches have the ability to time travel on top of everything, so pretty much everyone in this scenario has the power or ability to have destroyed each other before episode 1 even began but yet instead people are put to sleep, souls are put in to purgatory, and a seven-year-old anti-Christ in the body of a grown man is basically dumb as rocks...yep, this is the kind of high quality content I know I am always in the mood for...

Edited by AnswersWanted
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I'm perplexed with the logic, at least by the mutt and jeff characters and others as well, of being fed up with the stupidity and evil that humans do in turning the world into shit and wanting to end it all and start over (for the better implied). So why would they want to be teaming up with satan, who is the essence of the evil they're wanting to reboot the world and get away from, in the first place.

Edited by 100Proof
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Adina Porter's character, Dinah, is one stupid witch. She sold out all of the witches for 13 episodes of a talk show. I'm hoping it's a weekly show because if it's 5 days a week, she agreed to the world's dumbest deal. They gave Magic Johnson 8 weeks for a daily talk show. Chevy Chase got 5 weeks. McEnroe got 5 months. Tempestt Bledsoe got a full season. Hell, even ALF got 7 episodes. So Dinah just helped the antichrist murder the people who could stop him so that she could get a greenlight for a talk show episode order that's not even twice what a felt puppet got in the 80s. Way to shoot for the stars dumbass.

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27 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Adina Porter's character, Dinah, is one stupid witch.

Isn't she belonging to some voodoo sect and a sort of natural adversary of the witches?

Edited by 100Proof
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3 hours ago, sashayshante said:

That was marginally better than last week, but I'm way over Cordelia's whining about her waning powers and Fiona. I'm also still super pissed they're giving the most integral role in beating Michael to Mallory, the most underdeveloped character/weakest actress.

Its criminal that Billie Lourd didn't inherit any of her mother or grandparent's talent at all.

Tonight was another load of tripe.  Its hard to believe that these people actually came up with Murder House and Asylum once upon a time. I just don't think Ryan's heart is in this series anymore.He has too much going on. It's sad. AHS started off with such potential in its early years.

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30 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

Tonight was another load of tripe.  Its hard to believe that these people actually came up with Murder House and Asylum once upon a time. I just don't think Ryan's heart is in this series anymore.He has too much going on. It's sad. AHS started off with such potential in its early years.

I think the problem is they started not taking the show seriously and made it some tongue in cheek inside joke. It's like a parody of the show, like what would be in a skit on SNL. The characters are caricatures and the references are all over the place, even tonight with the Illuminati. This season does not know what it wants to be: a satire or a send up or what.

I am one of the few that liked Freak Show. It never veered off course. It stayed true to the tone of the original season and I think with Hotel, it crossed over into being absurd. 

This episode was somewhat interesting with the time travel angle, but then it gets all muddled with other plot stuff. So they will go back in time and prevent that Apocalypse? So the whole season never happened I suppose. 

Edited by DakotaLavender
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Ok, so I really wish it would have moved the plot along more and I definitely would have like for them to get back to present times.  But I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the episode, primarily because I thought the whole bit with the tech guys manipulating Micheal through Robo Meade was hilarious.  I know, I know...it's not American COMEDY Story, but hey, entertainment is entertainment.  Baby Girl RalyWilmy and I were in stitches. "And they're also very good looking..." bahahahaha!

Speaking of looks, Billy Eichner looks like Randy Quaid in "Kingpin" in that wig, lol.

I'm still holding out hope for a great finale because I'm optimistic that way.

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4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am one of the few that liked Freak Show. It never veered off course. It stayed true to the tone of the original season and I think with Hotel, it crossed over into being absurd. 

I loved Murder House and Freak Show and thought Asylum was pretty good (except for the musical acts - I cannot say it enough - I LOATHE MUSICALS) And I liked Liz Taylor and Kathy Bates' characters in Hotel (and the cool art nouveau architechture/decorating of the hotel) but couldn't stand GaGa and the whole "storyline" (for lack of better terms).

Oh, and with all of us wanting them to get back to present time, did anyone else yell at the TV screen when they went back even further to 1918???? GEEEZZZ

5 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

I just don't think Ryan's heart is in this series anymore.He has too much going on.

Isn't he the producer/creator/etc. of 9-1-1? If so he is putting his heart into it as it has become one of my favorite shows now.

Edited by llewis823 · Reason: added more
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Ahhhhhh I hate this one.....  it might be just as bad as Freak Show the only other one I hate.   I love love love this series.   Oh well two bad seasons isn’t actually...,uh bad.   

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They still have a lot to fix/resolve by next week but I guess Mallory will perfect the old time travel in order to set things back to normal and defeat Michael.

Cordelia shouldn't have been too shocked that Michael came and killed her witches but even I was a little surprised that Dinah actually helped Michael in order to do it. Those better be 13 sublime episodes for that, Dinah.

We didn't need the Anastasia subplot. I know there's been rumours about her historically, but has witchcraft ever been one of them?

Bye bye Warlocks. Aside from John Henry and Behold, you guys were pretty useless.

Michael should've realised that Jeff and Mutt were manipulating him through Meade. Really hope Venable gets to kill the pair of them next week.

The Illuminati/Cooperative bit was cliched but at least that bit has been answered though, 8/10

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I'm so frustrated.  I didn't start watching until Freak Show and I enjoyed that season, possibly because I had nothing to compare it to and possibly just because I liked it.  I don't know.  Anyway, after Freak Show, I went back and watched the previous seasons.  I really enjoyed Murder House and most of Asylum.  I liked Coven because it was different.  It had a kitschyness to it that the previous seasons didn't have.  I didn't care much at all for Hotel.  Like llewis823, I enjoyed Elizabeth Taylor and Kathy Bates. That was also the season I was most impressed with the talent of Even Peters.  But, Gaga and the storyline just didn't do it for me.  I didn't make it all the way through Roanoak.  It got SOOOOOO bad.  I thought that Cult stepped it up but it still wasn't as good as the first 4 seasons, in my opinion.  I had high hopes for this season with them bringing back Murder House and Coven.  Unfortunately, I feel like it is focusing on the wrong things, the timing is off, and Murphy is more focused on trying to showcase certain actors than the finished product. And if he is planning, as some have suggested, to have this be a cliffhanger and next season be the second part, I will be out.  I don't care enough to wait a year for the conclusion of a bad season.

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13 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think the problem is they started not taking the show seriously and made it some tongue in cheek inside joke. It's like a parody of the show, like what would be in a skit on SNL. The characters are caricatures and the references are all over the place, even tonight with the Illuminati. This season does not know what it wants to be: a satire or a send up or what.

I'm going to disagree. American Horror Story has always been very camp. If one looks at the season 1 reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, a lot of them mention satire, humor, and just ridiculousness. I think the problem is that we're seeing a bit of Ryan Murphy's late season malaise; it happens in quite a few of his shows.

The other issue is that the cast of characters is enormous. It's hard to care for or get invested in any of these characters when there are so damn many of them. Sarah is playing 3 characters. Evan is playing 4. Taissa is playing 2. Billy is playing 2 characters. Frances is playing 2. That's already over a dozen characters.

Then, of course, is the biggest issue--Billie Lourd as Mallory. The girl can't act. I think we're supposed to be rooting for Mallory, but Billie Lourd is so flat and monotone that it's never going to happen. She's clearly from Hollywood Automatons Ltd., specifically the Dead Eyed Blonde product line. That line includes Tippi Hedron, January Jones, and Billie Lourd.

Edited by HunterHunted
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Y'all are right that the pacing this season has been horrible. I wonder if this 

1 minute ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

And if he is planning, as some have suggested, to have this be a cliffhanger and next season be the second part

is why? I hope not.

6 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

Its criminal that Billie Lourd didn't inherit any of her mother or grandparent's talent at all.

No indeed, she did not. Ouch. The only time she showed any trace of anything was when she woke up in the bathtub screaming.

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10 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

The world ended because Evan Peters did not like traffic and the coffee was bad. Yea Billy helped.

I am tired of watching Sarah cry.

Time Travel I knew it!

Michael is a bit of a dope. He was played lol.

Two nihilistic “Coked-up nerds” manipulate a whiny, petulant, weak anti-Christ to destroy the world to get back at a lady who didn’t turn left and a coven of witches. Really?  How does he always fuck this show up so bad?

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Can we also discuss Cordelia's plan to protect her girls but yet lets Misty leave to flit around with Stevie Nicks knowing Michael is out there looking to kill all the witches? I guess Lily Rabe wasn't available for more than one episode?

The fact that Coco is always conveniently spared/saved lends credence to the theory that she, not Mallory, is the true Supreme. She got led out of the poison apple party by Brock, Mallory was able to save her from a death by snowball, now she's in the cabin while Zoe and Queenie were left to die, unprotected.

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Its such a moot point now but those first few eps were such a waste AND just what was with the young adults that were 'special'? Was that adequately explained? I really shouldn't care but I guess I do *grumble*

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So, why does one have to be in a bath tub to travel back in time?  Will next episode whip us back to the present to find the witches scrambling to locate a tub in underground Hogwarts?

Shoot, I thought I had stayed awake for all of this episode but I totally missed that Misty is indeed with Stevie Nicks as I joked about before.  I will keep imagining twirling in my head...

Edited by TexasGal
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I’m so confused by this season that this was the first time I realized Cordelia doesn’t even know about the apocalypse yet and ALL THIS is just a grudge match between Michael and the witches. Cordelia isn’t trying to save the world—she’s just trying to save the witches. Aaaaaaaaaand, she’s willing to kill Mallory (the spell that no one has survived) JUST to save a couple of the OTHER witches INSTEAD?!? Well, jeez, if Mallory is so powerful and the next Supreme, maaaaybe you don’t want to kill her off just to save a few lesser witches instead just because you have an affinity for them more than the newer girl. But, you know, these Cooperative stooges are setting up the end of times over having to wait 5 minutes for a cup of coffee, so Cordelia seems pretty rational in comparison. And, if the Cooperative is so top-secret, why would they rename themselves for branding purposes? It’s like anti-branding if you don’t want anyone to know about you...but maybe that’s the problem: Illuminati had too much name recognition. While I’m complaining about stupid details that bothered me, let me add Ms Veneble with her scoliosis walking in those super spike stilettos—if you need a cane to steady yourself, stick with more stable footwear!

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1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

Its such a moot point now but those first few eps were such a waste AND just what was with the young adults that were 'special'? Was that adequately explained? I really shouldn't care but I guess I do *grumble*

100% forgot all about them!

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So, Venable did actually see Michael in the nerd building so now it's questionable how she had no idea who Michael was in the first episode. 

I actually liked Diana's betrayal of the coven because I do think the voodoo women had a grudge, and because Cordelia was so fucking smug. 

That said, how did Coco survive? I thought it was Madison, Cordelia, Mallory and Myrtle in Misty's shack, did I miss Coco? And honestly so much stupid here - all the witches are in danger so we use special spells to protect us, but we let one witch wander off on tour with Stevie Nicks? We have a fairly random member of a rival sect in the house? We don't bother to include the warlocks in the protection or express any concern and then express shock when we find out they've all been murdered? For all Cordelia's boohooing about her girls, she pretty much didn't give two shits about her boys....

I admit to laughing at the joke about The Omen 3 and I agree with the basic humor of the two nerds setting up the end times because there's nothing like two idiots complaining about how self involved humanity is as they plan to destroy the world with no thought to their own survival.

Also, Meade knows she's a robot? Can we make up our minds?

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And honestly so much stupid here - all the witches are in danger so we use special spells to protect us, but we let one witch wander off on tour with Stevie Nicks?

I'm sure for whatever reason Lily Rabe was only contracted for one episode, but in that one episode her character did firmly tell the Coven she was done fighting and would not join them in their war or whatever. Maybe Cordelia hoped to change her mind by booking Stevie Nicks for a very special concert but that apparently didn't work.

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12 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Why is Cordelia so stupid? How could she be surprised that he killed her girls? How could she place any blame on Madison? She knew she was dealing with the damn ANTI-CHRIST!!! 

And how could she be confused about not being able to bring her girls back after she just told Michael that she had done something similar with Mead? An Anti-Christ with more powers than she has isn't going to return the favor?

9 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

Tonight was another load of tripe.  Its hard to believe that these people actually came up with Murder House and Asylum once upon a time.

There's very little commonality in writers. I see there's another new name this week, giving us ten different writers for nine episodes. This season is like a writing class project where each student does one chapter of a story, then passes it along to the next. Ryan is the teacher who gave everyone a rough outline and helped with the first chapter, and we'll probably see his name again for the ending.

13 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

 If Mallory can time travel then why wouldn’t they have sent her back to the point when Michael was nothing more than a defenseless, squalling second old newborn and kill him right then and there?

The witches are good guys, so I don't see that happening; maybe prevent his conception or have him grow up elsewhere? With all of the ranting this week about what Michael wants being what Satan wants, I think I'd prefer if Satan showed up and reversed what happened, after confronting his son and saying he likes having a world full of war and misery.

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43 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

So, Venable did actually see Michael in the nerd building

I don't think so. She knew he had an appointment but i don't think they ever met face to face. She only knows of his existence.

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She said she saw the young man.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a hill worth dying on, but really, if she is pointedly not to recognized him in episode one, does it serve any purpose at all to spend time explaining her backstory with the two gimps? It's just an example of how very little thought has gone into this. 

Also if she's getting the invite into the cooperative, it sure seems like the whole Antichrist plan would be revealed to her since she's running an outpost. 

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Can we at least assume that the person that drew the 666 in the mirror in episode one was associated with the Hawthirne School? Maybe a student or one if the warlocks?

 

2 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

She said she saw the young man.

I didn't catch that. This show has done such a poor job of making certain plot points clear, like that Michael is still emotionally a child. I mean, half the viewing audience still wonders how all of this stuff is going on after The Apocalypse, not realizing that we've been watching flashbacks.

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he reference to the young man is in the first confrontation she has with the programmers in this episode. To me it makes it pretty clear she saw Michael. Like I said - no one needs to die on this hill, I just find it dumb writing.

I am pretty sure all the warlocks were killed.

I am pretty sure though that the show has been clear enough on what is and isn't flashbacks... Its just not terribly clever. 

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3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Two nihilistic “Coked-up nerds” manipulate a whiny, petulant, weak anti-Christ to destroy the world to get back at a lady who didn’t turn left and a coven of witches. Really?  How does he always fuck this show up so bad?

Yes had we been introduced to these characters earlier and if Evan and Billy had been playing evil manipulative people it would have been slightly better. Ryan made them look silly and act that way so I guess we would be surprised but it's a fail.

I think this will be my last season. 

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I’m so disappointed in this season, I was hoping it would be good but it’s not. I agree with everyone saying how rushed the storyline became. They are going to have to scram in a lot in the finale. Still, I am interested to see how this will end. Do the witches time travel to stop the apocalypse? What will happen to Michael? 

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5 hours ago, RalyWilmy said:

Speaking of looks, Billy Eichner looks like Randy Quaid in "Kingpin" in that wig, lol.

THAT'S who they reminded me of! Thank you!

4 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Cordelia shouldn't have been too shocked that Michael came and killed her witches but even I was a little surprised that Dinah actually helped Michael in order to do it. Those better be 13 sublime episodes for that, Dinah.

That was really weird—why would Dinah be making deals with the Devil rather than Papa Legba from her own religion? Did Michael just show up on her doorstep with the offer/threat and she agreed in order to save her own skin another couple of years at the cost of her soul? Also, great work on that protection spell against the Antichrist/all evil that Minor Vooodoo Priestess #14 left over from Marie Laveau's slaughtered coven was able to pop like a soap bubble with about a minute's work!

2 hours ago, TexasGal said:

So, why does one have to be in a bath tub to travel back in time?  Will next episode whip us back to the present to find the witches scrambling to locate a tub in underground Hogwarts?

If so, I think they're out of luck. Based on my impression of the school and its instructors I think there would only be communal locker room showers.

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There's very little commonality in writers. I see there's another new name this week, giving us ten different writers for nine episodes. This season is like a writing class project where each student does one chapter of a story, then passes it along to the next. Ryan is the teacher who gave everyone a rough outline and helped with the first chapter, and we'll probably see his name again for the ending.

I think that's been the hallmark of this show since around Season 3. That's when I remember everyone pointing out that each episode seems to be a self contained mini story and the season altogether was only loosely strung together as a consistent narrative. It's like every writer has a different idea of what kind of story they want to tell so they all take turns working within the confines of a very basic framework. They've taken it to a new extreme this season with so many actors playing multiple roles. 

Roanoke was probably the only exception to that formula. Unfortunately, that experimental season was a total fail for other reasons.

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1 hour ago, LoneHaranguer said:

The witches are good guys, so I don't see that happening; maybe prevent his conception or have him grow up elsewhere?

 

I don’t think they would view getting rid of the AntiChrist the same as just killing a true innocent or anything.

After seeing what kind of evil and destruction he is capable of, they have gotten rid of lesser threats before, even if he was a baby they would be fully aware he was not a normal baby. 

But preventing his conception would work just as well, true, though if he was left alive there would always be the good chance he’d turn out the same way, used by Satan and given powers to kill and destroy regardless of whomever raised him or where he grew up. 

Honestly it is just beyond annoying that they decided to introduce this time traveling angle, especially now.

Why wouldn’t they have worked out the perfect time to go back and stop Michael’s quest already? There were so many moments they could have altered his path or changed his future, they had all the information from the ghosts in the murder house to go off of. 

It reeks of lazy ass writing and tying up of loose ends without any real direction or purpose to me, and there’s no excuse for it. 

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I have never deleted a season of AHS before it showed up on Netflix.  Even if I didn’t watch it again I kept it on my DVR until I was sure I could if I wanted to.  This season each episode gets deleted right after I watch it.   It’s not the crazy.  The show has always been crazy or the throw everything at the wall and see what sticks...because again not new.  It’s just this season lacks any kind of....I don’t know something that it has always had that I can’t put my finger on.  I loved Cult Roanoke and Hotel not because they were the best seasons but because they had it. Maybe a sense of fun whimsey.  I don’t know.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I have never deleted a season of AHS before it showed up on Netflix.  Even if I didn’t watch it again I kept it on my DVR until I was sure I could if I wanted to.  This season each episode gets deleted right after I watch it.   It’s not the crazy.  The show has always been crazy or the throw everything at the wall and see what sticks...because again not new.  It’s just this season lacks any kind of....I don’t know something that it has always had that I can’t put my finger on.  I loved Cult Roanoke and Hotel not because they were the best seasons but because they had it. Maybe a sense of fun whimsey.  I don’t know.  

 

I know Roanoke went off the rails and isn't popular for good reason, but I think I know what you mean. I at least enjoyed watching it to see who was going to be the last survivor, and how more over the top it would get with the blood moon madness and what not. This season had a lot of potential, and some episodes there was that campy fun, but the last few episodes have been a chore to get through, imo. 

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Even if the witches go back in time and reset events, the world's still run by Satanist members of The Cooperative. I wonder how that ties into the ending of Cult.

I hope the next episode addresses the killing of the warlocks and Zoe's resurrection.

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Who killed the Warlocks and why? I just caught up on the last 3 episodes and was shocked to learn this ends next week. I don’t see how this can be all wrapped up in 1 episode. I am so confused!

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12 hours ago, RalyWilmy said:

Speaking of looks, Billy Eichner looks like Randy Quaid in "Kingpin" in that wig, lol.

Holy shit!  I'll never unsee that now!

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Even the way they wrote out Chablis and John Henry was lazy. Like, you're going to go to the trouble to bring John Henry back pretty much for nothing and you're going to send Chablis to Murder House, but you can't even properly kill them off after making them so integral to the story? They wasted a whole fucking episode making a buddy comedy-style episode the week before, so it's not like they didn't have time to spare.

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