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I also think 5's behavior as they got older probably reinforced to Reginald that he'd made a good choice with Vanya. That scene at the dinner table right before 5 disappeared probably cemented for him. He kept reminding 5 he didn't truly understand the nature of what he was doing and was being reckless and a danger not only to himself with trying to time jump before he was ready. I could see how in his mind, imagine trying to reason with Vanya in the same context, at the same age or younger. Instead of just running off and jumping through time and getting stuck, she could've taken down the house (which I think they said was 4 city blocks) much sooner. I'm not saying he made a good choice at all, but even with the children he was training and teaching and in theory making Responsible Superheroes out of, it didn't go smoothly. So there's internal logic to his thinking "this is more than I can control, and it's too dangerous to continue to give her the time to control it herself". He absolutely contributed to the problem by isolating her and treating her like crap. Clearly the violin meant a lot to him. He was probably protecting himself a little that he didn't let that come out more outloud to her. She poured herself into trying to be extraordinary with the violin and if he'd seemed to value that she might not have felt so terrible her whole life. Or if he tried to turn her into more of a mini-him. Or an M type character. She seemed to be helping him a bit, measuring things, timing them, training them. Anything to lean into her importance. Hell, she could've been their leader but not going on the missions directly. He could've put her in a strategic position of power.

Maybe he was worried the pills weren't enough and he wanted her far away from even planning the missions because he was worried about her emotions being strong enough even while medicated. I don't know. But he had so many options for keeping her involved, and close to him and he seemed to not understand at all the concept of making someone feel like nothing does not actually keep them chill. Just the opposite.

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Yeah I feel like we can mostly all agree that season two is gonna need to explain a bit more about Reginald's thought process with the kids.. Or maybe at least some conversations between he and pogo showing how we got here... Cuz i see some of the logic.. But in other ways I'm flabbergasted... Also I'd like to see how he acted with Ben and Alison as Ben died young.. Diego seemed to be Mom's fave vanya was kept separated also seems Klaus was to an extent.. Luther  was just an obedient dog and five thought he was smarter than everyone so I have a decent idea about how Reggie treated those ones.. But number 3 seems like she may have been a favored child ( as much as he was capable of)  and Ben is just a mystery 

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They could have cut out a lot of Hazel and Cha-Cha. I didn't like the dark turn for Cha-Cha, even though it was implied from the start.

I wish more time was spent on Ben and Five, instead of Leonard/Harold and Vanya.

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1 minute ago, non sequitur said:

They could have cut out a lot of Hazel and Cha-Cha. I didn't like the dark turn for Cha-Cha, even though it was implied from the start.

I wish more time was spent on Ben and Five, instead of Leonard/Harold and Vanya.

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

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1 minute ago, jmonique said:

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

Yes! Especially the tow-truck driver and the murder of Patch.

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14 hours ago, jmonique said:

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

Add the three nannies Vanya killed to that, i thought it was weird how they were treated in that scene, it was almost played for humor w/ Reginald's reactions.

Had no problem w/ Reginald suppressing Vanya's powers. How many innocent people does a 4 year old need to kill before you go to that option.

Not sure if i was supposed to be rooting for Hazel and his girlfriend, but i want that bastard to die after his brutal torture and murder of three innocent tow truck driver. Fuck him. There was no reason to kill that guy at all.

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

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40 minutes ago, moonshine71 said:

Add the three nannies Vanya killed to that, i thought it was weird how they were treated in that scene, it was almost played for humor w/ Reginald's reactions.

Had no problem w/ Reginald suppressing Vanya's powers. How many innocent people does a 4 year old need to kill before you go to that option.

Not sure if i was supposed to be rooting for Hazel and his girlfriend, but i want that bastard to die after his brutal torture and murder of three innocent tow truck driver. Fuck him. There was no reason to kill that guy at all.

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

I was confused by the time period.. Because I kept wondering why they didn't call each other on phones instead of racing from place to place

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44 minutes ago, moonshine71 said:

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

This seems to be a trend nowadays. I think the development of cell phones has given suspense writers many headaches.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned how Hargreaves acquired a sentient monkey. At first, I thought he was a robot like Mom, then he was killed, so no.

And what about the other kids? They were never mentioned again.

And then, did anyone notice a little girl on the bus when Vanya was going to the concert hall? I thought she looked like Hargreaves' wife from the beginning scene and she looked at the violin and smiled.

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Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put tnem in their worst PTSD nightmare and not give them a chance to explain or defend themselves.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are saying she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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45 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put you in your worst PTSD nightmare and not give you a chance to explain or defend yourself.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are think she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

Worst part is she was showing genuine remorse over what she accidentally did to Allison, only for Luther to do that, shoving her over the edge. 

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To me it didn't look like Reginald put any effort into helping Vanya control her darker impulses. All he wanted was perfect soliders/super heroes and Vanya didn't fit his agenda so he gave up.

She was 4 years old he should've been teaching her that killing people you don't like is wrong or if he didn't care to spend the time then he should have programed Grace to train and teach Vanya compassion while the other kids trained with him. Or gone the Dexter route and trained her to go after bad people, murderers, pedophiles, sex traffickers. 

Suppressing her powers, excluding her and treating her like she didn't matter created a ticking time bomb. As she got older Vanya made her own choices and nobody growing up in that household would turn into a well adjusted adult. However the others did grow up knowing the mattered that they could make a difference. I'm not excusing anything she did, but it's understandable at why she turned out the way she did. 

Then Luthor made the same mistake. He locked her up fueling her anger. I mean would they lock Klaus back up in a mausoleum if he was out of control? Being locked up again probably brought back all her trauma and then watching her family just leave her there. 

Since they turned back into kids again, hopefully with their knowledge and they include Vanya in the family this time and help her control her powers. 

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49 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Then Luthor made the same mistake. He locked her up fueling her anger. I mean would they lock Klaus back up in a mausoleum if he was out of control? Being locked up again probably brought back all her trauma and then watching her family just leave her there. 

Umm, honestly with this family I would say probably.

I liked Vanya in the beginning but by the end...eh. I saw her whole storyline coming as soon as adult Vanya was introduced, but it was the way they told her story that soured me on her. And I definitely do not condone her murder of Pogo but do feel that viewers are sort of giving Pogo a pass (cutish animal and all) on not intervening with the children, because he witnessed the abuse Reginald put the children through. I give Grace a pass (robot and all). 

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3 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

This seems to be a trend nowadays. I think the development of cell phones has given suspense writers many headaches.

Yeah, Umbrella Academy is following that trend set by Gotham and then Riverdale and Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, with the retro "what if the Internet had never been invented" type of alternate timeline setting. The scene with Vanya typing made me smile about how charming typewriters seem, but how glad I am computers don't need White Out.

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

I get that, and if she'd left it at blowing up the scene of her imprisonment, I'd have understood. But she just completely checked out and went full White Violin, even flipping some rando's car over and getting ready to blow up all of civilization. 

It's one thing to exact revenge on your family; taking out the world is a sign of deep problems.

53 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Then Luthor made the same mistake. He locked her up fueling her anger.

Luther is just a terrible, terrible leader. He needs to own it and step back from the whole "#1" thing, but I get then we would have one less conflict on the show.

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4 minutes ago, jmonique said:

I get that, and if she'd left it at blowing up the scene of her imprisonment, I'd have understood. But she just completely checked out and went full White Violin, even flipping some rando's car over and getting ready to blow up all of civilization. 

It's one thing to exact revenge on your family; taking out the world is a sign of deep problems.

But Vanya didn’t really go full on White Violon until her brothers attacked her.   

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1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

But Vanya didn’t really go full on White Violon until her brothers attacked her.   

True, but she was still taking it out on the world an hour later as she lazily strolled to the concert. She wasn't responding in the heat of the moment, she had checked out like she did when she was tearing through nannies at 4, and Hargreeves went to his backup plan and locked her powers down (which I'm not justifying; once she became 10 or 12 he should have sat her down and worked out an actual program with her once she could reason, but of course he couldn't be assed to bother).

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3 hours ago, jmonique said:

Luther is just a terrible, terrible leader. He needs to own it and step back from the whole "#1" thing, but I get then we would have one less conflict on the show.

Luther being a bad leader has been fascinating to watch as the season went along, culminating in what is perhaps my favorite exchange from the show:

Diego: What’s the plan?

Luther: We go to the Icarus Theater. 

Diego: That’s a location, not a plan. 

And since I’ve been kinda hard on Luther, the past few posts, I just want to say that I loved the phone booth scene where he helped Allison hear Claire’s voice again by talking to her on Allison’s behalf. 

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4 hours ago, jmonique said:

True, but she was still taking it out on the world an hour later as she lazily strolled to the concert. She wasn't responding in the heat of the moment, she had checked out like she did when she was tearing through nannies at 4, and Hargreeves went to his backup plan and locked her powers down (which I'm not justifying; once she became 10 or 12 he should have sat her down and worked out an actual program with her once she could reason, but of course he couldn't be assed to bother).

It was never clear to me what exactly Vanya was planning at the concert. Because when we first see her at the concert hall, all she's doing is playing the violin. Sure, her eyes are changed, but there aren't any visual disturbances in the air that would indicate that she was gathering energy to end the world. She only goes full Phoenix once the siblings and the Commission foot soldiers show up; at that point, all she sees are multiple potential threats. Five and Luther jumped to the conclusion that she's going to cause the apocalypse based only on the fact that the world is going to end on that particular day. 

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Just finished Episode 4. Things are starting to get very comic-book clunky:
 Why would Diego let the others think the Masked Killers were responsible for robo-Mom's death?
 Is robo-Mom really dead -- or just broken? Was Daddy Hargreeves the only one who could fix things?
Are they all just going to let robo-Mom sit there? 

Police Detective Lady rejects Diego vigilante methods. But then tries to get Diego for backup before going into a dangerous situation? She doesn't call for any police backup? She leaves a phone message with some random guy, then waits  for Diego to get back to the gym to get the message and then travel to the hotel? (no cell phones or computers). 

The primary urgency seems to be that the world is ending in 8 days (now, six days?). But it appears that only #5 is working on that problem. Everyone else is paring up for heart-to-heart chats about their crappy childhoods. 

The  unnecessary secrets and "I don't want to talk about it" reactions are just lazy ways of making forced plots to work. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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4 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

Luther being a bad leader has been fascinating to watch as the season went along, culminating in what is perhaps my favorite exchange from the show:

Diego: What’s the plan?

Luther: We go to the Icarus Theater. 

Diego: That’s a location, not a plan. 

And since I’ve been kinda hard on Luther, the past few posts, I just want to say that I loved the phone booth scene where he helped Allison hear Claire’s voice again by talking to her on Allison’s behalf. 

I went back and forth with Luther from liking him to wanting to reach through my tv and shake him. Like, I loved that once he had proof of Ben, he included Ben in their final decision to time travel. Or his physical comedy whenever he really didnt fit in a space. But hated his choices as a leader, and as a brother. Man, locking up Vanya was just a brutal decision.

The fight at the StarLight was my favorite. Klaus chucking the cake was fantastic, and the group run down the lanes was something I want a giphy of. I also loved that Ben let all his siblings pass him before bringing up the rear when they were behind the pins. Although I am real curious to how Luther fit through the pins.

Also-I dont want to repeat the discussion on Reginald, but why didnt he use Allison to dampen Vanya’s powers or even say somethings like “I heard a rumor you never want to kill someone OR you want to learn how to use your power OR you are a happy person.” Hell, Reginald could have mind whammied all of them with Allison. He could have made Klaus not fear his powers, make Ben more reluctant to use his, gotten rid of Diego’s stutter, or made Luther the leader he always wanted. I wonder if Togo cautioned Reginald from doing that after Vanya.

I’m dying to know how next season is going to go. Are we going to see the kids making better choices and then seeing different adults? Is there going to be a paradox if they go back and time where they should be or body jump back with the knowledge they know-I realized watching on repeat that Five always landed where he hadnt been the first time around so no paradoxes, just lost time for his siblings. Will they know what happened in the past and make different choices? Will they remember how Ben died to try and stop it? Are we going to get this year repeated-lead up to Vanya and her concert? Will they be chased down by the Commission if they succeed going back in time? I hope Allison is the key to saving Vanya. I just have so many questions....

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19 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Reginald could have mind whammied all of them with Allison. He could have made Klaus not fear his powers, make Ben more reluctant to use his, gotten rid of Diego’s stutter, or made Luther the leader he always wanted.

I think he believed that stifling them In anyway with Allison's power would.. Hamper them reaching their full potential which he assumed they could only do with his mean dad training

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3 hours ago, Garden Wafers said:

It was never clear to me what exactly Vanya was planning at the concert. Because when we first see her at the concert hall, all she's doing is playing the violin. Sure, her eyes are changed, but there aren't any visual disturbances in the air that would indicate that she was gathering energy to end the world. She only goes full Phoenix once the siblings and the Commission foot soldiers show up; at that point, all she sees are multiple potential threats. Five and Luther jumped to the conclusion that she's going to cause the apocalypse based only on the fact that the world is going to end on that particular day. 

It's interesting to me that I'd just finished "Legion" season 2 shortly after finishing this series, and there's a parallel trope (I'll try to keep it spoiler free)

  • a super-powered person is a dangerous, imminent threat
  • pushed there by the harsh actions of alleged friends and allies
  • who took those actions based on their fear the person would become dangerous
  • but they only became dangerous because of the extreme over-reaction

That's not to excuse Vanya, she had plenty of opportunity to show she wasn't a psychopath/threat.

When I posted initially on page 2, I'd also had the idle thought: are we sure that Reginald didn't want this?  I mean, in-show the journal notes/reactions suggest a different motive, but it's not inconceivable that Reginald, an alien, came to this planet to engineer its destruction.  It's as if he took every wrong move to make a super team that would prevent a future apocalypse... but every right one if his goal was to cause it.

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4 hours ago, Garden Wafers said:

It was never clear to me what exactly Vanya was planning at the concert. Because when we first see her at the concert hall, all she's doing is playing the violin. Sure, her eyes are changed, but there aren't any visual disturbances in the air that would indicate that she was gathering energy to end the world. 

I don't think she was planning anything at the concert other than enjoying her moment of being first chair. Her eyes were turned because by then she had gone beyond some threshold and her general mindset and energy were in super-powered mode, even if she weren't actively using her abilities at the moment. Terrible analogy: if Goku went Super Saiyan but were just standing there.

Put another way: by then she'd made the transition from this happens uncontrollably based on my mood and I don't notice the lampposts twisting behind me to I can and will do this at any given moment. 

Remember that voicemail she got about her tickets would be at will call? I'm assuming she had intended to tell her siblings about the concert and had tickets held for them, but then she almost-killed Alison and they locked her up and she never told them and they found out in the paper and it all went kerfluey. But she smiled when she first saw her sister show up in the theater. If it hadn't been an ambush, if they'd all gone to Will Call (not that they knew they had tickets but like if they'd gone to the Box Office trying to get tickets and being all "um our sister is first chair?" and then they'd be all...oh you HAVE tickets) and she'd seen them sitting in seats, watching her performance, she might not have supernova-ed at all. She might well have chilled the fuck out and just played the damn violin and BEEN happy for however many minutes. Alison in the aisle before the brothers jumped Vanya saw that. She knew that when they made eye contact. When Vanya thought for 2 seconds her family had actually come to her performance, that's the moment they could've prevented the apocalypse, and of course fucked it up.

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3 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Also-I dont want to repeat the discussion on Reginald, but why didnt he use Allison to dampen Vanya’s powers or even say somethings like “I heard a rumor you never want to kill someone OR you want to learn how to use your power OR you are a happy person.” Hell, Reginald could have mind whammied all of them with Allison. He could have made Klaus not fear his powers, make Ben more reluctant to use his, gotten rid of Diego’s stutter, or made Luther the leader he always wanted. I wonder if Togo cautioned Reginald from doing that after Vanya.

That's the problem with a power like Allison's, which is why I suspect we got the whole guilt trip about using her powers on her daughter plot so we only saw her use them in an emergency.  Basically the only thing stopping her from ruling the world is her own conscience.  It's why I'm glad the writing/acting made Allison a nice/empathic person - because she could easily have been a walking bitch cliché.

It's almost the Superman problem - you make him practically invincible, so then you have to invent Kryptonite.

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1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

Remember that voicemail she got about her tickets would be at will call? I'm assuming she had intended to tell her siblings about the concert and had tickets held for them, but then she almost-killed Alison and they locked her up and she never told them and they found out in the paper and it all went kerfluey. 

I think that she did tell them about it, even if none of them (aside from maybe Allison?) had intended to go. I seem to recall Diego making a comment when they showed him the paper to the effect of "oh, yeah, her concert tonight." So I'm pretty sure that even if we didn't see it, at least a few of them had been told.

I did really like their reactions upon seeing Vanya play and realizing just how talented their sister really had become. It is little bits like that that make this show for me, and that it does much better than these big superheroey plots that walk the line of being cliche.

Also, regarding the oddity of technology in the world; I noticed this too, and it made me wonder why they just didn't set the show in the 70s or 80s, rather than try to make it modern day, but with pre-digital revolution technology. It was just kind of an odd choice to make, unless there was supposed to be a more salient reason for it that just never actually made it on-screen.

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Also, so many questions that were never even touched on being answered(in addition to the slightly annoying cliffhanger ending). Like how freaking old was Reginald when he died? He must have been at least 130 years old, judging by the flashbacks. And wtf was that glowy stuff he released into the air?

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anyone knows why Number 5 didnt bother to just use the briefcase to travel back to where his first 'got lost' or just right before the apocalypse to stop it? why bother to do the job for almost 5 years then try using his power to go back in time?

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58 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

Did he have a briefcase? I thought he didn't have one because he could do it without one.

that's even more weird

why didnt he go back immediately and instead performed some jobs for them until he decide to go back?

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1 hour ago, koganei said:

why didnt he go back immediately and instead performed some jobs for them until he decide to go back?

Didn't he say something about not having the calculations correct or whatever? For some reason, he just couldn't time travel all that time.

I absolutely loved this. It was just my kind of show. I was a bit put off by the ending, but I don't really care because I just loved the characters and just the ambiance of the show. I hope we get a season 2. I hope they don't keep them as kids too long though since I really like all the adult actors and their chemistry.

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So I definitely loved this show, but one of the few things that bugged me is really those were supposed to be 4 year old kids?  

Also poor Ben 

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On 2/18/2019 at 9:50 AM, ChocButterfly said:

Heck, she could have just forgotten to take the pills or lose them and all Hell would break loose, since she couldn't control her powers and didn't even know the extension of them thanks to stupid Reginald. 

This drove me crazy.  I was confused about the timeline as well.  Five came back 8 days before the apocalypse?  She seemed to start getting powers after missing one pill.  Great job Reginald, counting on a professional musician to be able to afford health insurance for the rest of her life.  There is a middle point between allowing someone to continue to be in the same situation in which they assaulted their nannies (down to the same tea kettle) and locking them in solitary confinement.   

I don't blame Vanya because she had a total mental breakdown.  She was not in her right mind.  It was full-blown insanity, although I don't think Ellen Page's acting was quite there.  Luther should have brought out a tranquilizer dart and her pills instead of choking her unconscious.  I enjoyed the series but think it might have benefitted from airing weekly.  I don't know how much time the writers had to sit with these ideas and see how they worked on screen.  

Like others here, I wish they had spent less time with ChaCha and Hazel.  Poor Ben didn't get a storyline at all.  Also agree on the shifts in tone.  They seemed to be going for very stylized comedy in a few scenes, like when they were all dancing separately in the 1st episode or Kate Walsh looking over the bathroom stall, but the rest of the time it felt like a standard superhero show.  

I found Allison's storyline really well done.  When she's driving in the car and all her "I heard a rumor..." moments flash through her head, you see how messed up she really is.  "I heard a rumor that you were in love with me."

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The era is supposed to be ambiguous...hello, time travel and super powers, not exactly true to life.  They purposely don’t want to set a time. I like it.  Gives it a retro, sci fi feel.

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S1.E1 quotes
 

Quote

Klaus: I can't just call Dad in the afterlife and be like, "Dad, could you just stop playing tennis with Hitler for a moment and take a quick call?"

Klaus: Where are you going with this?
Diego: Oh, isn't it obvious, Klaus? He thinks one of us killed dad.
Luther: That's not what I'm saying.
Klaus: Sorry, I'm just gonna go murder mom. Be right back.

Klaus: Listen up, old man. You know, if I was murdered and if one of my sons adopted sons happened to be able to commune with the dead, I might think about, I don't know, manifesting! Do the whole big angry ghost lecture. Tell everyone who done it and find eternal peace. Eternal peace is probably overrated.

Luther: Looks like some sort of temporal anomaly. Either that or a miniature black hole. One of the two.
Diego: Pretty big difference there, Paul Bunyan.

Vanya: Wait, how did you get back?
Number Five: In the end, I had to project my consciousness forward into a suspended quantum state version of myself that exists across every possible instance of time.
Diego: That makes no sense.
Number Five: Well, it would if you were smarter.

Number Five: Guess I missed the funeral. 
Luther: How'd you know about that?
Number Five: What part of the future do you not understand?

Vanya: They hate me.
Number Five: Well, there are worse things that can happen.

Number Five: An entire square block. Forty-two bedrooms, 19 bathrooms, but no, not a single drop of coffee.
Allison: Dad hated caffeine.
Klaus: Well, he hated children, too, and he had plenty of us.

Klaus: You know, every time I close my eyes, I see a diarrhetic hippo about to shit on my face. It's terrifying!

Number Five: You should have locks on your windows.
Vanya: I live on the second floor.
Number Five: Rapists can climb.

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S1.E1

I never read the Umbrella Academy comic book so I went into this totally blind. I first heard about it last year because I saw the first national tour of Hamilton which featured Emmy Raver-Lampman as Angelica. She left the tour to do this show, which is the reason I originally learned about the show at all. I decided to give it a try and so far I'm interested.

I don't know what's going on with Luther yet, but he gets an A+ for playing "I Think We're Alone Now" and getting everyone dancing. I loved that Diego carefully closed the doors before dancing his ass off. I know in theory that scene served no purpose but it gave everyone a chance to dance off a little bit of the stress that they were feeling.

Poor Ben. He definitely did not seem to enjoy his super power during the bank robbery. Now I'm worried that good old Reggie killed him and made it look like an accident. I feel bad for all of these kids who were clearly treated like a science experiment by their "father." What kind of an asshole makes children get tattoos? Apparently Hitler and sweet Reggie.

My main question while watching this episode was how Reggie knew where to find all 43 of the babies that were born on October 1st.

Bonus points for using They Might Be Giants!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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On 2/17/2019 at 5:31 AM, mustbekarma said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Vanya. She murdered three nannies. The dad may have been a dick, but Vanya obviously was out of control at an early age.

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the nannies. Each one of them was complicit in Reginald's child abuse. They treated those children in ways that anyone with half a brain, never mind a trained childcare professional in the 90s, knows is abusive. And they did it for money. Reginald was an abusive 'father' but at least he had the excuse of someone who appeared to know the world was ending and was desperate to prevent it. He was doing it in the worst possible way but saving the world is at least a noble goal. The nannies were just abusive for money. And I just really can't bring myself to feel that anyone willing to abuse seven 4 year olds for cold hard cash doesn't deserve to be flung out a window by one of the kids.

Edited by AllyB
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34 minutes ago, AllyB said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the nannies. Each one of them was complicit in Reginald's child abuse

Well all that I saw was the nannies get damn near killed for trying to make vanya eat her oatmeal.. What any other nanny or their Mom saw or didn't see in regards to abuse I can't say.. They trained vigourisly to be heroes is all we can say for sure and it was rough on them

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On 2/19/2019 at 2:24 AM, hincandenza said:

before arriving in 18th/19th century earth.

He arrived in the US in 1928. It was stamped on his immigration docket. And while his attire looked more mid-19th century, the people around him, looked 1920s with the women and girls in cloched hats and higher hemlines and the men in 20s era suits. We also see a car synonymous with that era on the street. 

The more modern era is also spelled out with the children born in 1989 and the Handler at one point talking about Number Five jumping into 2019. The series just exists a world without our communications technology.

Edited by AllyB
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Episode 6: 
 This was the episode that made me realize that this show is not really for me. But we will finish this season out, just for the sake of completion.
Being critical of UA feels a bit like holding an anime show to some higher standard of expectations. I see now that this is the type of show where the characters have no lives - they have nothing to do during their days except go to where the plot needs them. Only Vanya has a job and semi-daily routine.

The Luther and Allyson dance was surreal and entertaining, even if unnecessary. If you are going to pad out a season beyond its natural story length, these type of dance scenes are the way to do it. The way not do it is continuing to go back to Hazel and Cha-Cha and trying to create more story for them.

It appears that robo-Mom being alive again is not as significant as was her being dead (really only broken, but the kids didn't seem to understand the difference).
Pongo, the chimp mentor, appears to only show up when plot needs him to talk to one of the characters. No one is going to clean up that chandelier or any other mess in the house.
Klaus comes back from 1968 one day after he left (convenient) - with a new tattoo and PTSD - but with the exact same facial hair, etc. He apparently spent the 10 months clubbing, killing, and kissing and never considered trying to contact his father who would have been alive at the time.

The actual nail in the coffin for me was #5 and the Time Institute. Yes, it was wacky, tacky and wonderfully stylized (no digital tech for us). But we are introduced to the big Reset Button. 
And once you have established the Reset Button, time travel, and changeable time lines, you take away the feeling of events ever being significant or lasting. As with shows like the Magicians and 12 Monkeys, any or all of the characters can be killed to create an emotional scene - and then *poof*, they are back again. Rinse, Repeat.
I do not begrudge anyone who enjoys that type of merry-go-round ... I just don't think I am interested in coming back for more. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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30 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well all that I saw was the nannies get damn near killed for trying to make vanya eat her oatmeal.. What any other nanny or their Mom saw or didn't see in regards to abuse I can't say.. They trained vigourisly to be heroes is all we can say for sure and it was rough on them

Obviously, you can't see the minutia of the nearly 30 years the children lived for. But there is no way that a nanny lived in that house and was unaware that those children were living in abusive conditions. There is no way a nanny worked in that house and didn't participate in perpetuating that abuse. Just because we only saw Vanya being encouraged to eat her oatmeal at the point where she repeatedly snapped doesn't mean that the nannies were innocent. They simply couldn't have been. They were abusing the children for money and they got no less than they deserved.

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Just went to a local comic store looking for some of the comics. 

They were out of the Trades, but had the very first issue. For $65. I declined to purchase it. 

Yeah, turns out I wasn’t the first person the show got interested in the original comics. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 4:19 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put tnem in their worst PTSD nightmare and not give them a chance to explain or defend themselves.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are saying she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

On 2/21/2019 at 5:07 AM, Last Time Lord said:

Worst part is she was showing genuine remorse over what she accidentally did to Allison, only for Luther to do that, shoving her over the edge. 

The worst part is Luther clearly made the decision with zero planning.

How did he plan to feed Vanya without opening the cell? Was she supposed to sleep on the floor for however long he decided to keep her locked up in there? How was she supposed to use the bathroom, because I didn't even see a bucket for her to use!

Luther's a fucking moron! None of them are all that smart, but Luther is almost too stupid to live.

I was lukewarm on Vanya, mostly because I'm not a big fan of Ellen Page's acting so it's hard for me to connect with the characters she plays, but by the time Vanya went BSoD I was cheering as she tore the academy down to its foundations. I was less thrilled about her killing Pogo, and causing Mom's death, but I understood Vanya giving zero fucks at that point.

Edited by steelyis
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So old Reginald raised his super powered kids to avert the apocalypse...only for his own abuse and neglect to lead them to actually both cause and be unable to stop said apocalypse, due to their own dysfunctions and inability to work together effectively. Smooth move, daddy dearest. Really, despite their being a TON of technical villains throughout the show, the real villain, that basically set the whole mess into motion, is child abuse. 

This was definitely setting a lot of pieces for what will happen later on in the series (waiting on that season 2!), and I have a few complaints, but I loved this show overall. I loved all the actors, I loved the characters (despite how much I often wanted to reach through the screen and smack them), I loved the quirky retro universe, I loved the soundtrack, it was right up my ally. 

While the I Think We`re Alone Now is one of the money shot moments, I actually think my favorite music moment was in the last episode, where the gang gets attacked in the bowling alley to Saturday Night, especially when they had everyone running down the lanes as the song played in the background. That was just amazingly shot, edited, and staged. 

What I think is actually really interested about the I Think We`re Alone Now sequence, beside is being really interestingly shot and edited, is how much it said about the dynamics between the Hargreeves that we will see throughout the season. They're all separate from each other, even deliberately avoiding each other, but are also dancing to the same song all together. They all think that they're so different from each other, and struggle to understand each other, but they are also quite obviously not as different from each other as they like to think, and if they could all get on the same page, they really might be able to do great things. They're all dancing to the same song, but have no idea. 

With Vanya, there was a lot going on there. On the one hand, I can actually see why Reginald wiped her mind of her powers. She was dangerous and was hurting people, and could have easily seriously hurt herself or one of her siblings, because she was a little kid, and she had no idea what was happening to her. However, he could have told her the truth when she got older. He could have taught her how to control her powers. He could have not been a huge dick to her and made her feel excluded from her own family. If he had done any of that, hadn't made Vanya vulnerable to any random asshole who would show her a scrape of affection, or let her stew in her own misery and isolation for years, things probably would have been different. And by the time she broke the mansion down and killed Pogo and Grace, she was basically out of her mind with power and rage. 

On the other hand, Vanya was so miserable and lonely that she never really seemed to get that things really sucked for her sibling too, and being one of the kids their dad paid attention too wasnt exactly a picnic. Her blaming them for her isolation as a child seems really unfair, and especially blaming Allison for wiping her memory. I mean, Allison was a little kid. All of her siblings were kids, and most of their issues with each other as children seemed to be pretty typical kid stuff, at least beyond the obvious never ending abusive tactics of dad and the whole child soldier issue. She has been so hung up on her own suffering, that she kind of seemed to ignore that no one seemed to be having much fun in that house. Which I think is pretty normal for kids of abusive households, but when you start bringing world breaking super powers into the mix...

I also liked that when they locked her in the basement room, Klaus was the one who was most against it, other than Allison, and he seemed to be especially freaked out, even by his standards. Which makes sense, as old Hargreeves would apparently lock him up in a mausoleum to get screamed at by ghosts when he was a kid (seriously dude, what the fuck?!) so he would certainly get why that was so awful. 

I have lots of thoughts and feels about this one guys.

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So old Reginald raised his super powered kids to avert the apocalypse...only for his own abuse and neglect to lead them to actually both cause and be unable to stop said apocalypse, due to their own dysfunctions and inability to work together effectively. Smooth move, daddy dearest. Really, despite their being a TON of technical villains throughout the show, the real villain, that basically set the whole mess into motion, is child abuse. 

Honestly, given how poorly he taught the kids, it makes me wonder if daddy dearest wasn't actually an agent for the Commission. I don't recall if the series ever explained why they were so willing to let the apocalypse happen - but if they were aliens like Reginald, maybe they'd benefit if the earth was wiped clean for their own use. So Reginald not only raises the kids to be totally unprepared for the looming disaster, but he also publicly humiliates Harold Jenkins (similar to Five's handling of the Hindenburg case - a seemingly insignificant interaction that will have profound effects down the line). 

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S1.E2 quotes

Quote

Ben: I've got a crazy idea. Why not try starting your day with a glass of orange juice or some eggs? 
Klaus: Can't smoke eggs.

Ben: Liar.
Klaus: Drop dead.
Ben: Low blow.

Klaus: Okay, but just so we're clear on the finer details, I just gotta go into this place and pretend to be your dear old dad, correct? 
Five: Yeah. Something like that. 
Klaus: What's our cover story?
Five: What? What are you talking about?
Klaus: I mean, was I really young when I had you? Like, 16? Like, young and terribly misguided? 
Five: Sure.
Klaus: Your mother, that slut. Whoever she was. We met at the disco. Okay, remember that. Omigawd, the sex was amazing.
Five: What a disturbing glimpse into that thing you call a brain.
Klaus: Don't make me put you in time-out.

Five: The apocalypse is coming and all you can think about is getting high?
Klaus: Well, I'm also quite hungry.

Allison: How did you do it? Alone in this huge house for so long.
Pogo: Well, one grows used to things, even if, sometimes one shouldn't.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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S1.E2

A+ for using Never Tear Us Apart at the end of the episode. F- for using a shitty cover instead of INXS.

I liked getting to learn more about each of the kids and their relationships with each other.

Five seems pretty determined to forge ahead with his mission, but seeing the end of the episode where all of his siblings are dead makes it understandable. I did love this plan to have Klaus pretend to be his father. I don't think anyone expected Klaus to take it that far but I applaud his commitment so on the one hand, he definitely earned that $20. On the other hand, he knows Five just got back from the future so why does he think that Five has any money on him?

Is Delores the mannequin Five's version of Wilson the volleyball? I was kind of hoping to get some Kim Cattrall-esque magic and bring Delores to life. Hey, it's not so crazy to hope for even more magical powers on a show like this, right? We already have a kid who can jump through space and time so bringing a mannequin to life isn't THAT crazy, is it?

Poor Five. It must have been difficult spending so much time alone in that apocalyptic future. Knowing what he's seen, it's amazing that he is managing to pass him off as so normal.

I can't tell if Vanya's student Leonard is genuinely interested in her or if he's shady as fuck.

I had to laugh when Hazel punched the poor tow truck driver for not making his tuna sandwich with mayo. What kind of a person eats a tuna sandwich without mayo?!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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S1.E3 quotes

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Vanya: My name is Vanya Hargreeves, and this is my story. We were never a real family. We were our father's creation, family in name but not in fact. In the end, after our brother Ben had died, there was really nothing connecting us. We were just strangers living under the same roof, destined to be alone, starved for attention, damaged by our upbringing, and haunted by what might have been. We all wanted to be loved by a man incapable of giving love. Our father never missed an opportunity to remind me that I was ordinary. A hard thing for a little girl to hear. If you're raised to believe nothing about you is special, if the benchmark is extraordinary, what do you do if you're not?

Diego: The city is really going to shit, huh?
Patch: Coming from the guy dressed in spandex?
Diego: It's not spandex. It's leather. And you used to like it - a lot, if I recall. 
Patch: Gawd, please un-remember that. 
Diego: Etched into the data bank, Eudora.

Cha Cha: I don't understand how you can watch this crap.
Hazel: You don't find it interesting how ordinary people live their lives? They're agonizing over kitchen cabinets as if the entire fate of the universe rests on whether they choose azure blue or asparagus green.
Cha Cha: And your point is?
Hazel: Sometimes there's beauty in the mundane, you know?
Cha Cha: Well then this is the most beautiful room I've ever seen.

Klaus: Hey! Did I ever tell you guys about the time I waxed my ass with chocolate pudding? It was so painful.

Luther: Last I checked, I'm still the leader of this family.
Five: Well, last I checked, I'm 28 years older than you.

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S1.E3

At least now we can see why Klaus is constantly self-medicating. It reminded me of the Buffy episode where she could hear everyone's thoughts and it was driving her crazy.

Part of me was laughing at the thought of Reginald's ghost watching Cha Cha and Hazel break into the house and stroll around while the kids who he trained to be super hero crime fighters didn't hear a damn thing.

Poor Vanya. She got kicked out when all she did was show up for the family meeting. It's not like she dangled herself as bait to endanger her siblings. And this was after some of them thought that she didn't deserve a vote in what happens to Grace. Just because she doesn't have any powers doesn't mean that Grace isn't her mother.

Vanya did bring up at good question though. Reginald is the one who created Grace and programmed her, so how much of what Grace said to them was Reginald versus Grace? Did he program her to be a kind supportive loving parent because he knew that he wasn't capable of displaying that kind of affection and love?

One of my complaints about a lot of tv fight scenes is that they spend all this time and money to choreograph, rehearse, perform, and shoot these complicated fight scenes and then they all take place in dark rooms with shitty lighting so I can barely see what's happening. I'm guessing it's so they can hide the stunt doubles better but it annoys me so much that I usually end up fast forwarding through the fight scenes and just seeing who's dead and who got away.

The actress playing Grace looked so familiar to me, but it wasn't until I looked her up on IMDB that I saw she was Jennifer Goines' assistant Anita on 12 Monkeys! It was also fun to see bitchy Ashley from Revenge as Diego's ex.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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S1.E4 quotes

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Klaus: Nobody tells me shit. The truth is, I'm the one person in that house nobody will even notice is gone. You assholes kidnapped the wrong guy!

Cha Cha: Remember section 76, sub A of the training manual?
Hazel: I barely remember what we had for breakfast at this point.
Cha Cha: To paraphrase, torturing works best when you know who you're torturing.

Hazel: Maybe you're not hitting him hard enough.
Cha Cha: Me? You're the one with the stupid orthopedic bracelet.
Hazel: I told you already. It's just for support.

Klaus: Listen, I can get you cash, amputee hookers, whatever.

Cha Cha: I hate sprinkles. Maybe I just hate doughnuts.

Patch: I have reason to believe two wanted criminals are in this motel.
Receptionist: Just two?
Patch: I'm going to need to take a look around. 
Receptionist: This is a pay by the hour kind of place. My customers, they don't get four star digs but they do get complete privacy from me and from the man. Pardon me. Wo-man. 
Patch: That's bullshit.
Receptionist: They're your rules, not mine. Think I ain't read the Constitution? 
Patch: I don't think you can read.
Receptionist: Come back with a warrant.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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S1.E4

Really interesting that Luther is still so loyal to their father after everything.

I had to laugh when Pogo broke up the fight between Luther and Diego with "take your nonsense elsewhere."

Loved watching Cha Cha and Hazel dance around with all those eyeballs! But now I'm really curious who they work for that blowing up an entire building is no big deal.

Poor Klaus. While I understand that Reginald was trying (in his own way) to help Klaus learn to live with his special ability, locking a kid in a crypt while ghosts scream at him is just a dick move.

Why did Luther and Allison assume that Cha Cha and Hazel killed Grace? How would they know she was a robot and therefore that they should slice her arm open and disconnect her wires?

Even if Leonard isn't up to anything nefarious, it is still extremely sketchy that he used Vanya's keys to go into her apartment while she was at rehearsal, even if it was to leave flowers. You JUST met this girl. That is not cool! And that was before we found out that he took her pills.

Even though it was important for Luther and Diego to talk, I was like SHUSH, you guys are in a library!

I loved that Klaus finally put his powers to use and listened to the ghosts so he could freak the shit out of Hazel and Cha Cha. I wonder if actively listening to the ghosts would stop them from yelling at him constantly. I also wonder what the non-murdered ghosts have to say.Tonight's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver was about psychics who prey on mourning people and John Oliver mentioned that if he were a ghost, one of the first things he would tell a psychic is who murdered him.

RIP Eudora. I hope Diego doesn't get reckless and get himself killed trying to avenge her death.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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