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S05.E06: Sex, Liza and Rock & Roll

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Wish they wouldn't have conflated Chrissie Hart with Patti Smith (a condescending nod to Chrissie Hynde) - but this episode was weird all around. I don't care who Kelsey is fucking (they are really doing Jon Favreau a disjustice) and what was with the Whitney for Maggie?

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I love Gina Gershon, but Chrissie Hart was kind of a mess of a character. The only redeeming thing about her seems to be that she has motivated Liza to out herself and dress like a grown up.

Charles and Liza are still doing their romance tropes. Ugh. I kind of wish Chrissie had fucked him just to loosen him up a bit.

Diana and Maggie have met and all we got out of it was compliments, which was fine...I guess.

Diana was being a cow at the Whitney. Liza should have told her as much.

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God, Charles is a stiff.  It would be great to get Liza's POV about exactly what she sees in him.

3 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

The only redeeming thing about her seems to be that she has motivated Liza to out herself and dress like a grown up.

It really does seem like she's ready to end the charade now that Charles knows.  Maintaining that kind of sham for so long would be totally exhausting IRL.

48 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Charles is terrible with handling clients, he's lucky he inherited the company.

Tonight was Liza's shining moment on this show IMO.  Take note Charles.  Liza handled Chrissie...like a Boss.

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6 hours ago, itsreal said:

I'm sorry did you say something? I was distracted!! 

WOW!!!.jpg

THIS! My friends, this is what Liza sees in Charles! **drooling**

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I liked this episode, it had some fun elements. I thought Gina Gershon was a hoot as the Chrissie Hynde-type rock star, and her house was pretty cool. Happy for Maggie, but wish we got to see her celebrate and savor the moment more. Also wish there was more to Diana and Maggie's meeting - Diana and Lauren's meeting was more fun.

Holy crap Charles, what a dick move, taking off without a word and leaving Liza there alone! Glad she turned it around and stuck it to him...I understand his feelings but even I think it's time for him to get over it and get on with it. I agree with @Winston Wolfe, i would like to hear from Liza just what exactly it is she finds so appealing about him, aside from his looks.

Edited by Gothish520
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3 hours ago, TGinKY said:

THIS! My friends, this is what Liza sees in Charles! **drooling**

You would have to be blind not to see this!

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2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Holy crap Charles, what a dick move, taking off without a word and leaving Liza there alone! Glad she turned it around and stuck it to him...I understand his feelings but even I think it's time for him to get over it and get on with it.

This episode seems to be setting the stage for bigger things to come.  Maggie's triumph is going to help Liza realize that major mid-life success is indeed a possibility, setting the stage for "Younger- The Book" under a new publisher.  Diana's brush with ageism, so smoothly handled, will make her sympathetic to Liza's position, turning her into an even bigger supporter than she already is.  And Charles' dick move will have finally turned Liza off (you could actually feel her dismissiveness of him in last night's final scene), and she'll be ready to move on from the empty suit.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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Oh, Kelsey. She has clearly learned NOTHING from the disasters that occurred the last three times she slept with someone work-related. And is that weren't bad enough, now she's decided to double down and sleep with not one but TWO people she works with who also happen to know each other. Girl, THINK. How do you think this is going to end? With Zane and Jake high fiving each other and shopping for presents for you together?

Ugh and Zane's obnoxiousness when he was describing the kind of guy she wants and wasn't even trying to hide that he was describing himself just made me roll my eyes. Charles Michael Davis has always been able to play Marcel on The Originals as charming, confident, and powerful but still sensitive to the people around him, so he's capable of playing a complex character, which is why I blame my dislike for Zane on the writing rather than the actor.

Gina Gershon as not Chrissie Hynde was awesome. I only wish Lauren had been able to be there because she would have loved every second of it, from the $10K dildo to the skulls.

I'm so happy for Maggie's big success AND that she and Diana finally met! But I was disappointed that their meeting was so anticlimactic. I'm was cracking up when Maggie complimented Diana on her HUMONGOUS double flamingo necklace and then Diana said that Liza's generation is all fanny packs and rompers.

How is it that Charles has no clue how to deal with a client one on one? He was so awkward and clearly out of his depth. It was like he had never dealt with people before. Actually now that I think about it, he sounded like a shy but persistent kid who kept hounding his mom for something. Can I have a cookie? <waits ten minutes> Mom, can I have a cookie now? He didn't try to alter his approach at all to try to pry that manuscript out of her hands. Obviously Liza knew that she needed to be coaxed and convinced that she could trust them with her work. I mean, Chrissie said as much that she didn't want to hand over her baby until she was ready. Charles/Empirical must have had clients in the past who were reluctant to turn in their pages. How could his solution be to just leave Chrissie's house without saying a word?

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

How is it that Charles has no clue how to deal with a client one on one? He was so awkward and clearly out of his depth. It was like he had never dealt with people before. Actually now that I think about it, he sounded like a shy but persistent kid who kept hounding his mom for something. Can I have a cookie? <waits ten minutes> Mom, can I have a cookie now? He didn't try to alter his approach at all to try to pry that manuscript out of her hands. Obviously Liza knew that she needed to be coaxed and convinced that she could trust them with her work. I mean, Chrissie said as much that she didn't want to hand over her baby until she was ready. Charles/Empirical must have had clients in the past who were reluctant to turn in their pages. How could his solution be to just leave Chrissie's house without saying a word?

What Charles appeared like to me, was the aspect of Asperger's Syndrome, in which people have trouble interpreting the social environment and reading social cues.  The look on his face conveyed that as well.  From that perspective, I can understand his inability to grasp that he needs to chillax, get to know Chrissy, and then organically have the book come up.  What does not make any sense -- given that from the looks of his house, he has clearly traveled in elite social circles, and given his position in the company, he has long been exposed to 'how things are done' -- is that he would leave without communicating anything to the host, who just happens to be his most important client at this point.  That's the sort of faux pas that Charles the socialite and Charles the businessman would never make.  

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I can't hate an episode they finished off with some Franz Ferdinand!

The outside shots of the rock stars mansion - that was Emily and Richard Gilmore's house, wasn't it?

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I guess I'm in the minority that I'm glad Charles walked out. I don't agree with not letting Liza know but I found that walking cartoon stereotype of a rock star completely obnoxious. I paid you for something, give it to me - full stop. This episode went nowhere for me.

I'm also tried of the Green Acres (someone is high society someone is blue collar HOWEVER WILL THAT WORK!! Tune in next week when Diana sees a paper plate for the first time) love stories. 

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1 minute ago, Boofish said:

I'm also tried of the Green Acres (someone is high society someone is blue collar HOWEVER WILL THAT WORK!! Tune in next week when Diana sees a paper plate for the first time) love stories. 

Lmao! Yeah, I agree. While Diana is very successful and does treat assistants somewhat poorly, I think Miriam Shor brings enough depth to the character that I don't really buy that she would look down on service workers or think that they are beneath her.

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If Liza hadn't been at Chrissie's house, would he still have walked away without the manuscript? Way to give up too easily, Charles. No wonder Empirical is having problems. 

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Gina Gershon as not Chrissie Hynde was awesome. I only wish Lauren had been able to be there because she would have loved every second of it, from the $10K dildo to the skulls.

Lauren would have fainted from the perfection of it all. LOL.

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

her HUMONGOUS double flamingo necklace

That necklace was something, wasn't it? Again, all the props to Miriam Show for wearing the hell out of all the jewelry they put on her. Her gigantic necklace in the first scene was something, too.

I wish they'd have Diana dial back her snobbishness with Enzo at this point. She should know him well enough by now not to pack her own sheets. However, I was SO glad they made her able to understand and speak Italian, because his mother was incredibly rude. Enzo is no spring chicken himself, so that whole gross business about babies was really icky. Ugh. A gigantic brava to Diana for telling Mamma Enzo that Diana is "a juicy, juicy grape!"

Oh, Kelsey. Kelsey, Kelsey, Kelsey. GURL. Stop sleeping with your authors while you're working with them. 

If this political book is the only thing Zane has, as he told Kelsey, Empirical is definitely not getting its money out of him. 

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6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Kelsey. She has clearly learned NOTHING from the disasters that occurred the last three times she slept with someone work-related. And is that weren't bad enough, now she's decided to double down and sleep with not one but TWO people she works with who also happen to know each other. Girl, THINK. How do you think this is going to end? With Zane and Jake high fiving each other and shopping for presents for you together?

Ugh and Zane's obnoxiousness when he was describing the kind of guy she wants and wasn't even trying to hide that he was describing himself just made me roll my eyes. Charles Michael Davis has always been able to play Marcel on The Originals as charming, confident, and powerful but still sensitive to the people around him, so he's capable of playing a complex character, which is why I blame my dislike for Zane on the writing rather than the actor.

Gina Gershon as not Chrissie Hynde was awesome. I only wish Lauren had been able to be there because she would have loved every second of it, from the $10K dildo to the skulls.

I'm so happy for Maggie's big success AND that she and Diana finally met! But I was disappointed that their meeting was so anticlimactic. I'm was cracking up when Maggie complimented Diana on her HUMONGOUS double flamingo necklace and then Diana said that Liza's generation is all fanny packs and rompers.

How is it that Charles has no clue how to deal with a client one on one? He was so awkward and clearly out of his depth. It was like he had never dealt with people before. Actually now that I think about it, he sounded like a shy but persistent kid who kept hounding his mom for something. Can I have a cookie? <waits ten minutes> Mom, can I have a cookie now? He didn't try to alter his approach at all to try to pry that manuscript out of her hands. Obviously Liza knew that she needed to be coaxed and convinced that she could trust them with her work. I mean, Chrissie said as much that she didn't want to hand over her baby until she was ready. Charles/Empirical must have had clients in the past who were reluctant to turn in their pages. How could his solution be to just leave Chrissie's house without saying a word?

Agree with pretty much all of this, except I kind of like the way they are writing Zane - I think he's supposed to be arrogant and not much else, at least for now.

wanted to see that damn dildo - freakin' Charles, such a hetero.

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I hope this is finally Liza's come-to-Jesus moment regarding Charles. I liked how she told him off at the end, that the reason she got the book was because she didn't run away - literally and figuratively. And how could Charles leave Liza like that without saying a word? I mean, Liza's an adult, but she's still his employee. And they were there for a work function. 

I wonder if writers are setting up Charles to be an ass this season so they could do an opening towards Josh again. 

I like Hillary Duff, but I just can't seem to get interested in her storyline.

I wonder if Diana's romance with Enzo will end after finding out he lives with his mom. Out of the other characters' storylines, Diana's is always the one I look forward to. Miriam Shor is just that awesome. I love her smackdown of Enzo's mom when she began speaking in Italian after feigning she doesn't understand anything. Of course Diana Trout speaks and understands Italian!!! She's a woman of the world!

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1 minute ago, slowpoked said:

I hope this is finally Liza's come-to-Jesus moment regarding Charles. I liked how she told him off at the end, that the reason she got the book was because she didn't run away - literally and figuratively. And how could Charles leave Liza like that without saying a word? I mean, Liza's an adult, but she's still his employee. And they were there for a work function. 

I wonder if writers are setting up Charles to be an ass this season so they could do an opening towards Josh again. 

I like Hillary Duff, but I just can't seem to get interested in her storyline.

I wonder if Diana's romance with Enzo will end after finding out he lives with his mom. Out of the other characters' storylines, Diana's is always the one I look forward to. Miriam Shor is just that awesome. I love her smackdown of Enzo's mom when she began speaking in Italian after feigning she doesn't understand anything. Of course Diana Trout speaks and understands Italian!!! She's a woman of the world!

I wonder about the "living with Mom" thing too. 

It's funny, because on paper, a guy who lives with his mom is seen as such a red flag, but IRL it is much more common in the US for people to be living with relatives than ever. My husband and his sister both moved back home after the military and college, respectively, and they were both still there when my husband and I began our relationship. I never batted an eye - my brother moved back home after his divorce. One of my sisters moved in with me and my husband after her divorce a few years ago, and I know other folks who live with family members - it's cheaper and often people welcome the company. As long as everyone is happy and contributing, I think it's great. 

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21 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I wonder about the "living with Mom" thing too. 

It's funny, because on paper, a guy who lives with his mom is seen as such a red flag, but IRL it is much more common in the US for people to be living with relatives than ever. My husband and his sister both moved back home after the military and college, respectively, and they were both still there when my husband and I began our relationship. I never batted an eye - my brother moved back home after his divorce. One of my sisters moved in with me and my husband after her divorce a few years ago, and I know other folks who live with family members - it's cheaper and often people welcome the company. As long as everyone is happy and contributing, I think it's great. 

I'm Filipino, and born and raised in the Philippines, so I understand this culture. We never really move out of home until we get married, even though we are gainfully employed. For some, even when married, extended families would stay under one roof if the house is big enough. It's not a shock to anyone.

So when I moved here 10+ years ago and told my American co-workers of the usual living situation in the Philippines (as I was still living with family that time), they're all so shocked, as to how we can function properly and have enough privacy.

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I'd side-eye Enzo living with his mom, for sure, but I'd also ask him about it (in private). He has a well-paying job and a seemingly independent life, so it's not as if he's sponging off his mom out of laziness or lack of ambition.

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13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I love Gina Gershon, but Chrissie Hart was kind of a mess of a character. The only redeeming thing about her seems to be that she has motivated Liza to out herself and dress like a grown up.

I didn't catch that while watching the show, but now that I think about it, her outfit was much more professional when she dumped the manuscript on Charles' desk.  I wonder if it's really permanent and the start of bigger changes to come?

And thanks to itsreal for the insanely hot pic of Peter H.!!!

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I enjoyed the episode and it’s lightness. The Diana-Enzo storyline has been surprising to me in a lot of ways, and I’m definitely invested in that story. It’s wonderful to see Diana confident, yet being pushed outside of her comfort zone. Extremely happy Maggie is finally getting her moment and I would’ve loved to seen more of it. I think Jake has added a much needed to wrinkle to Kelsey’s storyline, but I agree that she needs to think. She recognizes that it’s bad, but she won’t put an end to it and it’s a wonder that her bad experiences from sleeping with other authors hasn’t resonated yet. Patiently waiting for Zane to drop his act and to hear more than tongue-in-cheek from him. He was absolutely right in that scene in her office, though. 

I missed seeing wacky authors on the show so I found the storyline refreshing even if it was ridiculous that she had an advance and refused to turn the book into her editor. I thought it was implied Charles knew the author pretty well, so it was odd that he didn’t know how to handle that. Good on Liza for being able to recognize what needed to be said to get that manuscript. So bummed that we already saw the entirety of that scene in trailers, but it was still baddass and Charles needed to see her in that way, and we needed to see her stand her ground with someone she has history with. Clearly a stark contrast to what he was accustomed to with his ex-wife.

I think it’s apparent Charles isn’t turned off by her age, but her lie (and no, they weren’t together, but she was an active participant in their emotional dance and therefore they both deserved transparency from each other), and it’s about time his walls finally started to crumble. I was dissapionted that we didn’t get to see her explaining herself and that he left. The two of them being away from everything else should’ve been the right time to clear the air, but there was progress. 

As frustrating as it been, I’m probably in the minority in thinking this is a fairly paced progression in terms of their relationship, and that a combination of legnth of the episodes and the wait in between that has made it feel unecessarily drawn out. It looks like seeing Liza with Caitlin next week will be the turning point for Charles. And I do believe witnessing that is it a realistic catalyst as opposed to him just being told her reasoning. It’ll be akin to Josh having a change of heart when he saw the slideshow Liza made him.

Edited by chybee23
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It was nice to see Peter Hermann play comedy for what seems like the first time in this series, but he was the straight man. Charles is a friggin' humorless asshat, though.

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2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I'd side-eye Enzo living with his mom, for sure, but I'd also ask him about it (in private). He has a well-paying job and a seemingly independent life, so it's not as if he's sponging off his mom out of laziness or lack of ambition.

In his defense, he did say that the home has been in his family for generations. It could be that he is the only one unmarried (if he does have siblings) and he didn't mention his father, perhaps he is taking care of his mother and keeping the house in the family. 

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Go, Liza !!

I loved the delivery of the last sentence :)

I understood the way she was dressed at the end - she dressed her age, a professional, but with slight rock-edge as she was inspired by Chrissy. Cool. I think she looked the best in the series yet!

Charles was just in shock, lol

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3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I didn't catch that while watching the show, but now that I think about it, her outfit was much more professional when she dumped the manuscript on Charles' desk.  I wonder if it's really permanent and the start of bigger changes to come?

And thanks to itsreal for the insanely hot pic of Peter H.!!!

You’re welcome ? 

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Why is Diana constantly shocked at how well Enzo is doing? Has she never seen 'Moonstruck'??? 

I'm so over Kelsey and her drama. Get a grip girl and finally take that old wisdom about not ***** where you're eating to heart. (Also quoted in 'Moonstruck' - may I suggest a movie-night for Diana and Kelsey?)

And when the show resorted to that old worn-out trope of the closed door with the intended lovers sighing on each side complete with emo song I tried my best Diana eye-roll but since I lack a ginormous necklace nobody was impressed.

Loved Liza's Tom Ford power suit and attitude in the final scene - stick with those two!

Edited by MissLucas
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1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Why is Diana constantly shocked at how well Enzo is doing? Has she never seen 'Moonstruck'??? 

One of my favorites! And yes, that's exactly what I thought too.

But seriously, I hope the living-with-mom thing doesn't derail their relationship, and I hope the mom turns out to be less of a bitch than we've just seen. Diana doesn't deserve to be treated that way and I don't want to see it. To be honest, I don't really care what happens in Liza's or Kelsey's love lives, but I definitely want Diana to get her personal happy ending.

Charles's immature behavior aside, my favorite moment of the episode was when Liza told him about a tip from an old Murder She Wrote episode about how to not get drunk, and he giggled drunkenly, "how old ARE you?!" It made me laugh, and was a glimmer of hope that one day they'll be able to tease each other about all this.

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I'm Filipino, and born and raised in the Philippines, so I understand this culture. We never really move out of home until we get married, even though we are gainfully employed. For some, even when married, extended families would stay under one roof if the house is big enough. It's not a shock to anyone.

I feel like most of the world has a culture of multi-generational households- thinking of Eastern Europe, parts of Africa and Asia. I don't know why we in the US are so weird about it. It just makes sense to me- grandparents can watch the grandkids, kids can look after aging parents, people can pool resources, etc. I'm actually seeing a little bit of a shift towards this in the US but it's for a crappy reason (the current generation that would be buying houses doesn't have the means to). 

The Diana/Maggie meeting was anti-climatic. It could have been so much but it was over with very quickly. 

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12 hours ago, chybee23 said:

I think it’s apparent Charles isn’t turned off by her age, but her lie (and no, they weren’t together, but she was an active participant in their emotional dance and therefore they both deserved transparency from each other), and it’s about time his walls finally started to crumble. I was dissapionted that we didn’t get to see her explaining herself and that he left. The two of them being away from everything else should’ve been the right time to clear the air, but there was progress. 

As frustrating as it been, I’m probably in the minority in thinking this is a fairly paced progression in terms of their relationship, and that a combination of length of the episodes and the wait in between that has made it feel unnecessarily drawn out. It looks like seeing Liza with Caitlin next week will be the turning point for Charles. And I do believe witnessing that is it a realistic catalyst as opposed to him just being told her reasoning. It’ll be akin to Josh having a change of heart when he saw the slideshow Liza made him.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything here. I think the way in which Charles and Liza's journey is unfolding at the moment has been relatively well paced and I know I'm very much in the minority when I say that I believe that Charles' current bitchiness towards Liza is somewhat justified. She wasn't just some fling for him, he's admitted to being in love with her; and to find out the person you've gone and fallen for has lied to you completely about who they are from the moment you met them is a huge thing to get over.

And I think I've said this before; but both Josh and Kelsey had their time to be mad at Liza and eventually get over it because they love her and still want her in their lives, which is what I'm sure will happen with Charles. 

Also I think this arc with Charles freezing out Liza is giving him more dimension as a character, given Peter a lot more material to work with and I think it's showing Liza that he's not perfect. Cause I think for a long time they both had fantasies of each other and now they're being confronted with the reality that the person they've fallen in love with is just that; a real person- with flaws and idiosyncrasies. 

I mean, I firmly cop to being on Team Charles (I think the show is too lol) and I'm really pulling for them cause I think Liza's always been into Charles, even when she was with Josh and frankly; they just spark together. Even now they're at odds, you can tell there's so much raw suppressed emotion coming from both sides. Charles is mad at her but he still wants to kiss her senseless. 

Also, I loved the bit in the episode when they were both drunk and laughing and you saw a glimpse of what they could be down the line. That was a little wink to audience from the show, I believe. So yeah, I'm still Team Charles, and I think the show's been doing a decent job so far at developing this part of their story. 

 

ETA: I echo the sentiments of those above who believe that it's ridiculous for Diana to still be shocked at Enzo's lifestyle just cause he's a plumber from Staten Island. To be honest, as a lifelong SATC fan, I really think Darren Star needs to retire that obnoxious Manhattenite superiority complex that used to plague Carrie Bradshaw and the girls back in the early 00s. It's so ridiculous to watch Diana, a character who I adore, mimic that behavior and mindset in 2018. 

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Am I  the only one here who thinks that Kelsey's situation in this episode pre-shadows the season finale where Liza will have to choose between Charles and  the tattoo guy? Besides that I think it was a dull episode, no  plot development etc. The show now reminds me of that  Nasim Pedrad's character  in the "Scream Queens" who was mentally stuck in the the 1990s. I understand the comic effect of the Diana's outfits, and I love them, but all other people in NY, do they really dress themselves like they still live in the world of the "Melrose Place"?    

Edited by skotnikov

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58 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

I understand the comic effect of the Diana's outfits, and I love them, but all other people in NY, do they really dress themselves like they still live in the world of the "Melrose Place"?    

The show tries a little too hard with wardrobe to show what they seem to think is the huge chasm between 40-something and 20-something. In reality, at least in my experience, both working in NYC, SF and smaller cities/towns (I get around lol) there is little difference in the way a 46 year old dresses for work and a 26 year old dresses for work. Night on the town? I'd say that is where the real difference is. Liza's night on the town would be more likely dinner and a movie or show while Kelsey's would be club hopping and screwing every guy she wants to buy a book from apparently. But at work, it's not the clothes that show our age but what life events we are discussing. All the 20-somethings are talking about their weddings or new babies or buying a house. We older ones are past that stage and talk about other life stuff.

This show is kind of terrible when it comes to age, which is funny since that's kind of what the show is supposed to be about. But it paints things far too black and white.

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Took a minute to look up how long it would take to travel from Manhattan to Shelter Island ... 3 - 4 hours by car!  How the heck did Liza get there? (Usually I try not to nitpick and think about the details too much, but that is a hike.

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I don't want to dislike Charles but boy are the writers making it hard not too.  I still prefer him to Josh but really it's getting to the point where I'm gonna start pleading with Liza to cut her losses and look elsewhere - both for her profession and and her heart....I loved the power suit and attitude at the end...corner turned?? I can only hope!

Pretty much loved everything in this episode except the Kelsey "love triangle" drama..... snore and who cares...I mean really? One's a total dick and the other one is really boring (and I need to know if the Jon Favreau of Pod Save America fame knows about this lol)

Edited by BellyLaughter
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On 7/19/2018 at 2:10 AM, stormborn said:

And I think I've said this before; but both Josh and Kelsey had their time to be mad at Liza and eventually get over it because they love her and still want her in their lives, which is what I'm sure will happen with Charles. 

Also I think this arc with Charles freezing out Liza is giving him more dimension as a character, given Peter a lot more material to work with and I think it's showing Liza that he's not perfect. Cause I think for a long time they both had fantasies of each other and now they're being confronted with the reality that the person they've fallen in love with is just that; a real person- with flaws and idiosyncrasies. 

The show only let Josh and Kelsey be mad about Liza's lies for 3 episodes each. The show has let Charles freeze Liza out for 5 episodes so far. It's disproportionate to the depth and level of their relationship so far. I don't even mind that he's mad, but the guy Liza was sleeping with (Josh) and one of her best friends (Kelsey) only got limited episodes to express their anger when their relationships with Liza were far deeper and more intimate than what Liza has with Charles.

If the show wants to foreshadow that Charles is the endgame, that's fine. But the foreshadowing is kind of dwarfing her other relationships. Five episodes with a guy she's kissed 3 times? The audience knows that it's deeper because we're operating from a place of omniscience, but neither Charles nor Liza know this. She doesn't know that he was on the other side of that door. And neither knows how many texts they've written and erased confessing deeper feelings. All I'm saying is that  the show needed to have Charles be slightly more demonstrative with his feelings in order for him to earn being mad for as long as he has been.

Edited by HunterHunted
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16 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

She doesn't know that he was on the other side of that door.

I think she did, but she's still waiting for him to make the first move. That he didn't is one reason she was short with him when she dropped off the manuscript. (She also had a legit reason to be annoyed with him ditching her in Shelter Island. Grow the fuck up, Charles. Gah.)

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There's a good reason why Liza doesn't want any more biological children - she's surrounded by them in her love life. There's her first husband, her boyfriend, her boss..

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Liza looked like one of the buildings on the NYC skyline in her platinum gray suit in the last scene, so powerful. Watch out Charles, she could have your job one day. I'm more interested in that storyline than which fella wins her heart anyway.  

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8 hours ago, HadleyFields said:

Liza looked like one of the buildings on the NYC skyline in her platinum gray suit in the last scene, so powerful. Watch out Charles, she could have your job one day. I'm more interested in that storyline than which fella wins her heart anyway.  

Liza has demonstrated that she is more competent than Charles and can handle clients with much more warmth and aplomb - she'd turn that company around in no time.

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On 7/20/2018 at 2:42 AM, BellyLaughter said:

I don't want to dislike Charles but boy are the writers making it hard not too.  I still prefer him to Josh but really it's getting to the point where I'm gonna start pleading with Liza to cut her losses and look elsewhere - both for her profession and and her heart....I loved the power suit and attitude at the end...corner turned?? I can only hope!

I'm pissed off at the show for making me want to see Liza and Charles get together, then make Charles so uninteresting and weak that I almost don't care anymore one way or the other.  That's what really sucks for me!

On 7/21/2018 at 3:10 AM, HadleyFields said:

Liza looked like one of the buildings on the NYC skyline in her platinum gray suit in the last scene, so powerful. Watch out Charles, she could have your job one day. I'm more interested in that storyline than which fella wins her heart anyway.  

I'm hoping the show is going to use Liza's power and talent to get Charles to soften up on her a bit.  It will redeem him somewhat and if he likes powerful Liza there's a lot that can be done with that for a win/win situation (as in her moving up the ladder and them finally getting together).  I know this would probably be down the road somewhat because the show has to torture us a bit more before they'll let us have it!

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For me, Charles' anger, disappointment and defiance is in direct proportion to how much he has fallen for her. (Josh was pretty shocked too, he just bounced back quickly) Once he has come round (possibly after the next episode if meeting - if only Caitlin knew that she is the icebreaker ;-) it could get hot&horizontal very quickly.

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