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S05.E10: The Warriors Will

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Monty strives to show Wonkru an alternative to war, and to the valley itself. Meanwhile, Abby’s health continues to deteriorate, along with McCreary’s patience.

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Based on the episode title, when the Warriors are all dead this is what is going to be read after the funeral in order to disburse their assets to others. </sarcasm>

Or maybe next episode the title will be 'The Warriors Won't'.

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5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Based on the episode title, when the Warriors are all dead this is what is going to be read after the funeral in order to disburse their assets to others. </sarcasm>

Or maybe next episode the title will be 'The Warriors Won't'.

Well, if I thought the writers knew how to use an apostrophe, I'd think your idea about the next episode title is more likely. But whether referring to their determination or the disbursement of their assets after death, I assume they mean "The Warrior's Will" (or "The Warriors' Will)." Either way, I'm sure the episode will be as frustrating as this one. 

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I was pretty much done with this show after the last few episodes, but my husband wanted to give it one more chance so we watched tonight. It was actually better than expected, though I did roll my eyes at Monty's magically restored garden. Of course, you could see Octavia going to burn it down a mile away. As Bellamy said, there is no going back for her--she no longer has any redeeming qualities after sending him, Indra, and Gaia to the fighting pit and then destroying her people's food supply in order to maintain power.

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Figured I'd come here before watching the epi to see if they were gonna continue to destroy octavia's character  so we can presumably end up with Clarke as the top dog again... Not too sure I'm interested in that TV show... 

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I don't see it as ruining Octavia's character. that's the Octavia I've been watching for 5 seasons. She's a kid throwing a tantrum. Only her tantrum affects other people's lives.  She's a fighter, while Clarke's a thinker. So they are all acting in character for me.  

They've shown Octavia to be power hungry so I knew she was going to burn down all their food to keep her power. I was yelling at them to go to plants instead of standing around. 

The dark year better be worth it to wait this long to reveal it. 

Edited by Sakura12
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The shows flaws were strong in this one.

Monty demonstrates they can grow food and don't need to go to war.  

Result:  revolt against Octavia

Octavia burns down all potential of growing food

Result:  follow Octavia to war.  I guess it's something that a few made it clear it was a pretense to find Madi or Spacekru but still preposterous.

When did they give any indication Wonkru would turn on Octavia that easily and for that reason of all reasons?   The possibility of a food source and Monty's little speech was enough.  Monty isn't Wonkru, so since when does anything he has to say carry weight?  Where they all Skykru?  

And if they would turn on her then why didn't someone at least challenge her and attempt to kill her for the arson?  The rations aren't going to go poof if she is killed.  This is a society of our fighters.  No one was enraged enough to lash out when they had been brave enough to denounce her a short time earlier?  

There are a couple of problems.  One is that they made their story about turning Wonkru to or against war without giving much sense of factions that might exist in Wonkru beyond the main characters whose motives are messy and often nonsensical.  The other is deciding to keep the Dark Year as an end of season surprise.  If that is what explains why characters are acting the way they aren't makes more sense to reveal that before it becomes ingrained that he writing is just terrible.

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Agree with @ParadoxLost, this show's flaws are just getting worse -- but worst of all, it is just so boring.

Don't care about Abby the junkie chronicles, or Clarke and Maddie's road trip, or Octavia's scorched earth philosophy.

And what is this 50 miles/6 days rations travel shenanigans nonsense ? 
By the end of S2 they walked between Camp Jaha, Mt. Weather, and TonDC in a matter of hours -- and it was a heck of a lot further than 50 miles.

That end scene looked like a heck of a lot like more than 800 people headed off to war -- did they pick up a lot of newbies somewhere ?

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Wonkru is some of the most wishy-washy, pushovers on Earth, apparently.  One minute, they're letting Monty of all people convince them that Octavia is a liar and are getting ready to revolt.  But then all Octavia has to do is burn down the garden, and suddenly they're back to meekly following her.  What is to stop them from just overthrowing her and following someone else?  What a bunch of wimps!

But, yeah, so Octavia basically showed herself to truly be a dictator out for herself, by finding out there was a true alternative option to war, and simply getting rid of it, so war is now the only option left.  Indra pretty much had her number about it being all about her.  Who knows how many will die all to prop up her ego.  I would say there was no going back here, but since next week's episode is finally going to look into the "Dark Year", I suspect the show will try and use it to explain why she is the way she is.  I will give her credit for calling out Bellamy's former alliance with Pike, because that will always be a major blemish on his record, but she is certainly showing that neither one of the siblings are really good at decision-making.

I was pretty much rooting for Madi to knock Clarke out and flee, throughout all of their scenes.  At least Clarke found her mom again... who is looking like shit.

I see Henry Ian Cusick directed this one.

Episode automatically is downgraded due to the absence of the Cool Group a.k.a. Raven, Murphy, Echo, and Emori.  They're pretty much the only ones I like at this point.

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I'm impressed with Octavia's balls, walking out in front of all the warriors who were only mere minutes ago ready to dethrone her. She might need an extra pair of eyes to watch her back.

I understand everyone's annoyance with the wishy-washy nature of WanKru, but what else is there to do? They don't have any resources for food (although they magically have enough for nearly 15000 meals, apparently) and we didn't even see if the bunker is still intact after the fire. Was the fire contained? Octavia did say something along the lines of stay there and die or go with her to war. The majority that's "following" her is most likely doing it simply to find Maddie and/or kill Octavia along the way and then surrendering or overtaking the valley. 

 

As for the question about 50 miles... I think it was some kind of difficult route because of the Primefaya? Although I agree that all the hiking between camps in previous seasons were almost all farther away. I suppose WanKru's weak health is a good excuse for making it seem so difficult now? Also, no horses this time around.

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They really want me to feel for Octavia, huh? It's just so damn hard when she had a couple of options to not be a dictator and be an actual leader, and she decided to burn Monty's hard work to ashes and march to the Valley. At this point, they'd need to really fill in those gaps with plenty of empathy toward Octavia in order for me to really feel for her. 

I guess they kind of did with her begging Indra for another option so that her brother, Gaia, or her could all live. I mean, she really could have called it off, but she's so obsessed with being in charge that it seem unfathomable. But then everything else happened, especially the ending, and I'd be quite content with someone killing her. She can't be redeemed, at this point. She's a danger to everyone, her own people included.

I see Madi/Clarke are already planting the seeds toward Madi's death. I mean, they telegraphed it pretty heavily that Madi is likely going to die soon (and I suspect they may want to rid of the Commander stuff in general). I'd say Madi has a 40% chance of making it out of this season alive. 

I couldn't care less about Abby overdosing, I really couldn't. I'm at that point with her where I'm ok with her being a sacrifice. 

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I'm not even sure if Abby took the actual drugs she requested... I mean, she didn't even check the label, she was so far gone. And Vince (?) is such a creep that I wouldn't put it past him to just give her something in the hopes of it having a positive/placebo effect and/or worse.

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I liked the direction in this episode. Henry Ian Cusick did a really good job.

Clarke is now the second Actual Worst after Octavia. The only difference is that Octavia is just absolutely unstable and power hungry and noone pretends she's a sane, logical person we should root for. Clarke is just a selfish hypocrite. After the last episode and this episode when she was tried to overpower Madi I'm done with her. It's just sad Madi and the Commanders' stuff is placed in Clarke's narrative because I have to deal with her on my screen.

The Blakes interactions were amazing, as were the Indra/Octavia interactions.

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35 minutes ago, CooperTV said:

The Blakes interactions were amazing, as were the Indra/Octavia interactions.

The indra/Octavia relationship has always been my favorite 

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9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

They really want me to feel for Octavia, huh? It's just so damn hard when she had a couple of options to not be a dictator and be an actual leader, and she decided to burn Monty's hard work to ashes and march to the Valley. At this point, they'd need to really fill in those gaps with plenty of empathy toward Octavia in order for me to really feel for her. 

it's hard to imagine any scenario where empathy for Octavia is possible after she burns the plants.

At this point the only real conclusion I can make is that marching on the Valley is not about taking the last habitable place on Earth. 

She's willing to risk the worms surviving outside a host in a wasteland.  Ok maybe I would have bought that.  She never saw Jeff Goldbloom's   "life will find a way" speech in Jurassic Park.

Maybe she can't deal with the idea of permanently living in the bunker because of under the floor trauma.  Except Monty specifically said they could grow the plants in the wasteland.  They don't have to live in the bunker.  Frankly, she hasn't seen the Valley so she is doing this for something intangible on the word of "enemies of Wonkru".

Are we supposed to believe Octavia doesn't believe she could have put down the rebellion if they decided to settle and rebuild at the bunker or some other place that isn't a six day walk followed by an immediate battle.  

It has to be about asserting her power at this point either as retribution against Prisonkru or stubborn defiance of Bellamy and Clarke.  Or she thinks she can retain control in an environment where their enemy is defeated for reasons that no longer make sense given that hydroponics still working is enough for her to lose control.

But marching in Prisonkru en masse also seems tactically idiotic.  Wouldn't it work better to extend your resources and send in a covert force to stealthily kill and weaken the enemy?  If it's dangerous to stay behind while that is going on,how would it be any less dangerous for hundreds of people to walk to the Valley.  Kind of difficult to hide that.

Now that I talked myself out of everything else, I think they will go with Octavia seeing this move as a big metaphorical pit fight and the only type she can participate in to either die for her crimes or redeem and cleanse herself of the sins she committed in the Dark Year.  I don't buy it but I bet they go there.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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Another thing.

i was kind of amused that now that they are away from Wonkru, the reason Clarke didn't want Madi to have memories of prior Commander's is that she has Lexa's memories of her intimacy with Clarke. 

Awkward

The reason Madi doesn't work for me because she has no personality. I liked the idea that she would interact with people based on Clarke's stories as we got to know her but that disappeared after meeting Bellamy with nothing to replace it.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

But marching in Prisonkru en masse also seems tactically idiotic.  Wouldn't it work better to extend your resources and send in a covert force to stealthily kill and weaken the enemy?  If it's dangerous to stay behind while that is going on,how would it be any less dangerous for hundreds of people to walk to the Valley.  Kind of difficult to hide that.

 

All the good, stealthy warriors have probably already been killed in the pit, because those are usually the ones with some brain cells, skills and experience and I doubt they'd blindly follow Octavia.

10 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Another thing.

i was kind of amused that now that they are away from Wonkru, the reason Clarke didn't want Madi to have memories of prior Commander's is that she has Lexa's memories of her intimacy with Clarke. 

Awkward

The reason Madi doesn't work for me because she has no personality. I liked the idea that she would interact with people based on Clarke's stories as we got to know her but that disappeared after meeting Bellamy with nothing to replace it.

I was wondering about those Lexa memories as well, even before they implanted the flame. Suddenly your adopted daughter has memories of being your lover? Do the feelings [of love] also transfer? Bit skeevy by TPTB.

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1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

I missed that part, why did they burn Becca alive?

The Doomsday Cult were the ones who killed her.  Apparently they were the ones who greeted her when she arrived on earth, she gave them the nightblood serum but either it didn't work as fast as they wanted it to, so they thought it wasn't working at all, or something, because she was screaming that it would work, they needed to try again, and "he" (presumably Cadogan) wasn't saving them by killing her, he was killing them all.

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On 7/18/2018 at 3:21 PM, Efzee said:

I'm not even sure if Abby took the actual drugs she requested... I mean, she didn't even check the label, she was so far gone. And Vince (?) is such a creep that I wouldn't put it past him to just give her something in the hopes of it having a positive/placebo effect and/or worse.

He probably gave Abby some roofies so he could get that remote control away from her.

So, I'm assuming the Dark Year involves some amount of cannibalism.

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So, in every episode I wonder who the heck is making those fancy, labor intensive leather bedazzled outfits everyone wears. Where do they get all that leather anyways? Where are the cows? Who's slaughtering them and tanning the hides? Why would you bother making outfits like that anyway? Such a time suck and waste! It bugs!

Edited by Bizabra
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2 hours ago, Bizabra said:

So, in every episode I wonder who the heck is making those fancy, labor intensive leather bedazzled outfits everyone wears. Where do they get all that leather anyways? Where are the cows? Who's slaughtering them and tanning the hides? Why would you bother making outfits like that anyway? Such a time suck and waste! It bugs!

Exactly! It takes me out of the story all the time. Have you seen Clarke's jacket? It has tons of strass thingies on the back. Is that necessary? Where do they find their clothes, or who's making them? To me, the award of the most ridiculous outfit goes to Abby and her weird little leather jacket that is all sleeves and nothing more. What's the point of wearing that? Also, why can't she tie her hair properly? Why does she have to be disheveld all the time? To show that she's an addict? Is that all the credit the writers give to addicts? They have messy hair? And look at Harper, with her perfectly combed and wavy hair, like she's just out of the salon. I know it's stupid to get hung up on those details, but the show isn't well written enough to distract me from noticing.

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When was the first time a TV show used a broken mirror to symbolise a person's emotional torment? Because I'm sure that the first time we all thought it was profound. 

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On 18/07/2018 at 11:38 AM, Sakura12 said:

I don't see it as ruining Octavia's character. that's the Octavia I've been watching for 5 seasons. She's a kid throwing a tantrum. Only her tantrum affects other people's lives.  She's a fighter, while Clarke's a thinker. So they are all acting in character for me.  

 

 

I think saddling Clarke with "my child!" is just not working. I don't think they know what to do with her this season. She's not necessary for the plot they've mapped out so they've got her doing busy work like some kind of episodic temp.

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The dark year better be worth it to wait this long to reveal it. 

God, yes

On 18/07/2018 at 12:07 PM, ParadoxLost said:

When did they give any indication Wonkru would turn on Octavia that easily and for that reason of all reasons?   The possibility of a food source and Monty's little speech was enough. 

I thought they demonstrated the reason was the new Commander. This just added to the core reason by giving them a rallying cry now Maddi is gone.

5 hours ago, Bizabra said:

So, in every episode I wonder who the heck is making those fancy, labor intensive leather bedazzled outfits everyone wears. Where do they get all that leather anyways? Where are the cows? Who's slaughtering them and tanning the hides? Why would you bother making outfits like that anyway? Such a time suck and waste! It bugs!

 

2 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

Exactly! It takes me out of the story all the time. Have you seen Clarke's jacket? It has tons of strass thingies on the back. Is that necessary? Where do they find their clothes, or who's making them? To me, the award of the most ridiculous outfit goes to Abby and her weird little leather jacket that is all sleeves and nothing more. 

Forget that - where do they get peroxide and hairspray?

Edited by AudienceofOne

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I... literally don't remember any of the lore about this show, or how Becca getting burned at the stake affects anything. Maybe it's supposed to be foreshadowing for something? Something I probably don't want? I don't know.

Otherwise, I found it interesting to hear Clarke refer to Madi as her child. Like, I guess we got that vibe already, but I read it as more of an older sister thing. And then I asked myself why I read it that way -- if it's just because Clarke is so young... I don't know. Agree that it's weird for Lexa to be in Madi's head, but I also think there are a lot of parts of that relationship that are not purely sexual. There's a way of reading this where it's less "you are becoming like my dead girlfriend" and more "you are remembering the woman who would have been part of our family if she had survived." (I still kind of wish we had gotten the Dollhouse ending where Lexa just lived in Clarke's brain forever.)

On Tumblr, people have made a connection between this lily pad game that Octavia and Bellamy played as kids where the first one to touch the ground loses, and one of the scenes in episode one where Octavia is the first person to step out of the dropship onto Earth. I don't know if any of that was in the writers' heads, but it's an interesting callback, even if it's just a fan-made one.

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On 20.07.2018 at 2:54 AM, ketose said:

So, I'm assuming the Dark Year involves some amount of cannibalism.

Spoiler

As per usual, the most shocking reveal imaginable, according to the writers, was predicted months ago. I'd bet they won't kill Octavia even after that one.

Edited by CooperTV

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I'm on Team Monty here. Otherwise that was a filler episode with set up for the action sequences that didn't make sense. 

Oh, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet. If you have a full earth of wasteland around you, don't bury the dead in a fertile spot, go to the desert.

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1 hour ago, hertolo said:

If you have a full earth of wasteland around you, don't bury the dead in a fertile spot, go to the desert.

If you're referring to the Wonkru defectors that were killed by McReary and his crew, the question I had was not why they were burying them in a fertile spot but why were they were burying them at all. McReary et al. didn't strike me as people who had any respect for the dead in general and for these people specifically.

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On 18. 7. 2018 at 3:28 AM, Paloma said:

I was pretty much done with this show after the last few episodes, but my husband wanted to give it one more chance so we watched tonight. It was actually better than expected, though I did roll my eyes at Monty's magically restored garden. Of course, you could see Octavia going to burn it down a mile away. As Bellamy said, there is no going back for her--she no longer has any redeeming qualities after sending him, Indra, and Gaia to the fighting pit and then destroying her people's food supply in order to maintain power.

Except they are all still alive. Even Gaia who I honestly thought is a goner after her failed assasination attempt. So far the most evil thing Octavia did was betraying her deal with Clarke and trying to have Madi murdered. Monty openly calls her a dictator (twice), he refuses to help her save her brother and she does nothing, even when his nicely coiffed girlfriend is just beside and Octavia obviously resents their hopefullness. A true dictator would sure do something cruel at that moment so everybody around is just as miserable as her. She even let him enter the pits and spoke freely even whe she knew what he is about to say. 

Ok, burning the hydropharm has not been nice but honestly, if the choice was a few more years on rations and limited diet vs. a real food and meat from a sunny country I´m surprised Monty was able to convince everybody so easily. We have yet to see what the dark years were about but I understand why Octavia wasn´t exactly thrilled with the prospect. For Monty it´s mainly a personal science project and something he believes can make lives better, but for her it´s just a few more years of the same misery.

I think that´s also why they had no trouble to join her again at the end. I think it all happened so quickly it was almost like a dream and now it´s basically back to reality. They have to go to the war to survive and their choices seems to be Indra, Octavia´s second best, and Octavia herself, who may be getting crazy, but everybody still respects her as the best warrior of the clan. Plus her taking the backpack and just moving forward without saying a word even when she knew how much some hates her was a really badass move. I would probably follow her as well.

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19 minutes ago, Paloma said:

If you're referring to the Wonkru defectors that were killed by McReary and his crew, the question I had was not why they were burying them in a fertile spot but why were they were burying them at all. McReary et al. didn't strike me as people who had any respect for the dead in general and for these people specifically.

That one fertile part on earth that makes no sense because it couldn't exist if 99.999% of the ecosystem was gone? It can only help if the plants got some kind of nutrients, like dead bodies. Also, dead bodies on the ground decay and breed bacteria, and probably death worms.

 

5 minutes ago, jane1978 said:

Except they are all still alive. Even Gaia who I honestly thought is a goner after her failed assasination attempt. So far the most evil thing Octavia did was betraying her deal with Clarke and trying to have Madi murdered. Monty openly calls her a dictator (twice), he refuses to help her save her brother and she does nothing, even when his nicely coiffed girlfriend is just beside and Octavia obviously resents their hopefullness. A true dictator would sure do something cruel at that moment so everybody around is just as miserable as her. She even let him enter the pits and spoke freely even whe she knew what he is about to say. 

Ok, burning the hydropharm has not been nice but honestly, if the choice was a few more years on rations and limited diet vs. a real food and meat from a sunny country I´m surprised Monty was able to convince everybody so easily. We have yet to see what the dark years were about but I understand why Octavia wasn´t exactly thrilled with the prospect. For Monty it´s mainly a personal science project and something he believes can make lives better, but for her it´s just a few more years of the same misery.

I think that´s also why they had no trouble to join her again at the end. I think it all happened so quickly it was almost like a dream and now it´s basically back to reality. They have to go to the war to survive and their choices seems to be Indra, Octavia´s second best, and Octavia herself, who may be getting crazy, but everybody still respects her as the best warrior of the clan. Plus her taking the backpack and just moving forward without saying a word even when she knew how much some hates her was a really badass move. I would probably follow her as well.

A benevolent dictator can do things that are nice. The problem is that they'll probably do nice things for the people they like and bad things to the people they don't. That's why dictatorship as a concept is bad compared to democracy, since one person's whims are law.

Where's the meat coming from in the valley? There's way more people than small game animals. Sounds like dark year part 2.

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The Valley makes no sense. We know the Valley makes no sense. I'm just rolling with it at this stage.

I mean, haven't they shown them swimming in pools of clean, fresh, running water? Where is that coming from? The water on the planet is a giant system. That water would be stagnant and dead.

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On 20-7-2018 at 11:37 PM, jane1978 said:

Ok, burning the hydropharm has not been nice but honestly, if the choice was a few more years on rations and limited diet vs. a real food and meat from a sunny country I´m surprised Monty was able to convince everybody so easily.

What meat? Aside from PrisonKru...

On 21-7-2018 at 10:43 AM, nosleepforme said:

I was amused when Clarke told Maddi that she doesn't want her to be the commander because commanders suffer horrible fates and die. Yeah, as if there haven't been other people dieing prematurely in all those five seasons. Horrible fates and deaths is pretty much the only thing that is guaranteed to every single character on this show, Maddi won't live between flowers and sunshine for a very long time, so why not let her be the commander now that it is done.

 

To be fair, Clarke and Maddi have just had 6 years of peace and quiet, compared to the few months (?) of fighting, killing and negotiating Clarke experienced when the 100 came to Earth.

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Monty has consistently been amazing throughout the show's run. He's brave, empathetic, rational and introspective. He'll do what needs to be done, but he'll make no excuses for himself by comforting himself with mantras like "there are no good people" or "I did it for my people". I love his level of self-awareness. His and Kane's arcs are also the two that have progressed the most without falling back into the same pattern the way everyone else does. This season, Monty didn't just complain and then ultimately fell in line because he's a loyal sidekick and will do whatever others tell him to; he thought outside of the box and came up with a third viable solution to their problems, which, even though it ultimately failed, actually had him act on his own without being led by others. We saw that side to him in season two, and they finally followed through with it this season. Kane too has thought of another solution instead of letting himself get involved in the others' petty fighting. Finally some actual character progression.

Henry Ian Cusick did an amazing job at directing this episode. Everyone except Marie was amazing and in terms of acting, I thought Paige knocked it out of the park. I'm actually rooting for her this season. 

One thing I haven't seen addressed is that Clarke's plan to reveal the info about the eye in the sky means the annihilation of Octavia's entire faction. That means that in addition to turning in Bellamy and leaving him for dead, she's also willing to have Diyoza wipe out Monty, Harper, and Indra, who are still with Octavia. Not only am I over Clarke's selfishness, I'm also sick of her constantly betraying her friends and leaving them for dead, and then resuming her relationships with them afterward like it's nothing. If they have to constantly go there with Clarke, then I want actual repercussions for her actions. I want some of the others to die as a result of her plans or for them to ostracize her because the number of times she's abandoned them is close to reaching double digits. I can't remember the last time I saw a show that was so careless with how it wrote its interpersonal relationships.

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On 7/19/2018 at 4:41 AM, Efzee said:

All the good, stealthy warriors have probably already been killed in the pit, because those are usually the ones with some brain cells, skills and experience and I doubt they'd blindly follow Octavia.

The fighting pit disturbs me to no end. I am a brain person, not a body person. All the smart, but non-athletic, people are at an extreme disadvantage, because Octavia's all about fighting. How about challenging them to a math quiz? Oh, wait, you have to pander to the audience, too, make the fight an entertaining spectacle. Really sick on Octavia's part. But her torching of the agricultural solution? Her people should have torn her to pieces at that point, not followed her to war. How do they know the valley will continue to thrive? God, I hate stupid, wasteful people.

Love Bellamy and Indra (and Monty and Kane — interesting he directed, good job!) I'm glad the show jumped ahead five years, because the actors probably weren't teenagers at the start anyway, and now they look their ages, more or less.

Clark should have torched the worms, not just tossed them out. You never know if they have mutated into a bigger threat...

I like the serial killer weirdo, Vinson (?). He's entertaining, and also useful...

Edited by Andromeda
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On 7/20/2018 at 2:01 AM, Bizabra said:

So, in every episode I wonder who the heck is making those fancy, labor intensive leather bedazzled outfits everyone wears. Where do they get all that leather anyways? Where are the cows? Who's slaughtering them and tanning the hides? Why would you bother making outfits like that anyway? Such a time suck and waste! It bugs!

Well what Im wondering is how the heck Abby even got addicted? I mean any medications that were in the bunker, even if they were still sealed up would have gone bad decades ago. I mean, weren't they up in space for 100 years? So drugs in the bunker would be 100 years old. Even if hydrocodone can last 40 years, that is 60 years out of date. EVEN if prisonkru brought drugs with them, THOSE drugs would also be 100 years old.

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