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S05.E04: The Talented Mr. Ridley

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Has Liza ever mentioned being a writer? I'm just confused about why so many people think she's going to write a book -- but maybe I missed something?

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She’s not a writer, but it’s a hell of a story and she edits for a living, so she certainly knows how. Lots of people who aren’t writers still become one when they have a noteworthy story. And the show is loosely based off a woman who pulled a Liza, then wrote a book about her experience. 

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I'd like to see Liza, Kelsey, and Diana take over Empirical and make it a raging success. Charles can retire to his country place and sulk for all I care. Romantically, I'd like to see all three women be at the start of a new relationship with men who are smart, emotionally mature, and in love with who the women actually are.

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2 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Has Liza ever mentioned being a writer? I'm just confused about why so many people think she's going to write a book -- but maybe I missed something?

Kind of.. when she was ghost writing that one book a couple seasons ago, she complained to Maggie that she wishes she had known about ghost writing for something to do when she was married and back in New Jersey. 

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There's also the dog book being a success because of Liza's editing. When the dog book writer got a little cocky about her dog idea being successful, Kelsey pointed out to her she was lucky to have a great editor. Kelsey reminded the girl that Liza rewrote the entire book and gave the book it's wit and irony.

I remembered the incident but looked up the details in that episode's thread. 

Edited by Stuffy

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I work in book publishing. Most people who work in editorial, marketing, publicity and even sales are usually competent writers, and usually after working in publishing for a while try their hands at writing. So that's not farfetched. Farfetched was the reaction to "not making payroll" - which was really weird. No one blinked? People would be freaking out. More likely they'd be late on paying authors royalties, but a big publisher can't get away with that either, for very long.  A realistic storyline would be Charles talking to a a bigger publisher about merging. But I guess without Crown of KIngs, they're not bringing a lot to the table.

I don't mind Charles being bitter and childish about Liza's big lie. If it goes on all season, it will get old, but I think it would be weird if he was fine with it? Also, Charles is hot, hot, hot and some of us find emotionally constipated men appealing. 

I love Josh-one of the things I most like about this series is Liza & Josh together, and her being able to do things like lie on the couch on a Saturday and just cuddle with Josh with his stoner friends in the room. You get older and all of sudden your weekends are spent doing errands and being responsible. I loved the escapism of her relationship with Josh. I also do think Josh is more emotionally aware than Charles. But as a book person-Josh said he does not read books-and even if he's a talented artist-if you love books enough to work in publishing it would be very, very hard to commit to someone who doesn't read books/understand any of your references.

i am hoping that they show some emotional growth for Charles, let us see him parent a bit, let us see him turn Empirical around. I agree he's a bit passive but I also think right now he is at his lowest point (getting divorced, company failing, falling out with Liza) so a good story arc will be him fighting back from that.

Diana Trout continues to be the BEST. "As you'll realize when you are old enough to rent a car....." I love her.  I love her new boyfriend. I just want her to be happy. Also, she looked really gorgeous in this episode.

Christian Borle-I didn't find his character that appealing. I didn't find stiffing the waitress to be particularly zany either. I hope he goes away soon. Unpopular opinion, I guess.

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1 hour ago, Heathrowe said:

A realistic storyline would be Charles talking to a a bigger publisher about merging. But I guess without Crown of KIngs, they're not bringing a lot to the table.

Empirical seems to have a decent backlist, though, as well as some solid employee talent. That's worth something even if there's no future for Empirical and/or Millennium. I think at one point a sale or merger was mentioned, but obviously it never happened. If the company finances are bad enough that Charles is thinking of stiffing his workers, he really has to start seriously considering selling, merging, or some sort of drastic bank loan. Otherwise he just looks inept, which I'm pretty sure the show isn't trying to do.

1 hour ago, Heathrowe said:

But as a book person-Josh said he does not read books-and even if he's a talented artist-if you love books enough to work in publishing it would be very, very hard to commit to someone who doesn't read books/understand any of your references.

I worked in book publishing in another life and have always been a massive reader. What disappointed me in the guys I dated wasn't not reading but them having contempt for it. ("Why do you read? It's a waste of time." Etc.) That was a deal breaker for me. Intellectual curiosity comes in many forms. In my experience, not sharing/understanding references has more to do with an age/cultural difference than if you read. For instance, I lived overseas for five years when I was growing up, and when we returned to the States, I hadn't a clue what was popular. I caught up somewhat, but when people my age mention something from that time, I often still have to shrug and say I don't know what they're talking about.

I don't think Liza and Josh are incompatible because he doesn't read; they're incompatible because he wants kids and she's done with that. They're also at vastly different stages in life even aside from the kid stuff, and sometimes that's hard to overcome.

1 hour ago, Heathrowe said:

Diana Trout continues to be the BEST. "As you'll realize when you are old enough to rent a car....." I love her.  I love her new boyfriend. I just want her to be happy. Also, she looked really gorgeous in this episode.

YES. YES. YES. YES. I can't wait for her to find about Liza not being 26 and not giving a rat's ass, because you know Diana Trout doesn't have time for that nonsense. She'll be ticked off she was fooled, but two minutes later she'll be asking Liza to confirm her lunch date, send her the marketing ideas for the new cookbook being published, and oh, yeah, find her some pens that come in royal blue ink, because blue/black doesn't match the office stationery and is she the only one who cares about stuff like this?!

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13 hours ago, Heathrowe said:

I don't mind Charles being bitter and childish about Liza's big lie. If it goes on all season, it will get old, but I think it would be weird if he was fine with it? Also, Charles is hot, hot, hot and some of us find emotionally constipated men appealing. 

Hahaha, I secretly agree with you on that, and despite not liking the direction the show has taken Charles I always tend to soften on him after a while just because he is so freaking HOT.  I'm still hopeful that once he straightens himself out he will become less constipated.  Perhaps he can have an awakening of sorts.  He would be even hotter!

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I’ve never found Charles hot but that’s just me.. to each their own. And I’ve never got the Liza and Charles ship. Just not into it and not because I was rooting so much for josh,I mean I like them better but I’m mostly meh on either of her choices when it comes to those two. I’ve just never really liked Charles. 

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I feel like the writers boxed themselves into a corner with the Liza/Josh breakup. Josh isn’t going to just decide not having kids is OK and Liza isn’t going to (or shouldn’t) suddenly say “Oh, I want to start a second family.” It was an easy way to write a breakup, but now there’s nothing for Josh to do. There were many other reasons they could have split up that they could get back to a relationship.

Edited by chitowngirl
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2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I’ve never found Charles hot but that’s just me.. to each their own. And I’ve never got the Liza and Charles ship. Just not into it and not because I was rooting so much for josh,I mean I like them better but I’m mostly meh on either of her choices when it comes to those two. I’ve just never really liked Charles. 

 I don't find him hot either. I can't help it, I just see the Green Goblin when I look at him. If he was at all funny, charming, or charismatic, that might make a difference, but he's not so here we are, LOL.

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16 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I feel like the writers boxed themselves into a corner with the Liza/Josh breakup. Josh isn’t going to just decide not having kids is OK and Liza isn’t going to (or shouldn’t) suddenly say “Oh, I want to start a second family.” It was an easy way to write a breakup, but now there’s nothing for Josh to do. There were many other reasons they could have split up that they could get back to a relationship.

I think you brought up a good point about the writers boxing themselves in with Liza/Josh, but I think there is a way it can still work out for them.  If Clare suddenly reappears with a baby she didn't let Josh know about, or he somehow unknowingly impregnates another woman that can take care of his need to have children.  When Josh married Clare I never thought it would work out between them, but even last season I thought she may end up pregnant, thus removing Josh's urgency to have kids with Liza.

Even as I say that I was never a Josh shipper.  I'm not a fan of age differences that big.  I tried it once and it wasn't for me.  To each his own, though.  And Josh is a great guy but as a character he is in my opinion a little dull.  Usually the one the heroine ends up with is the guy she can't have that she has always wanted and gives her that longing desire deep in the pit of her gut.  And Josh isn't that guy on this show, while Charles is.

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On 7/7/2018 at 1:28 PM, Heathrowe said:

Christian Borle-I didn't find his character that appealing. I didn't find stiffing the waitress to be particularly zany either. I hope he goes away soon. Unpopular opinion, I guess.

You're not alone. I generally like him, but he looked so short and I wasn't a fan of the goatee. 

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I feel like the writers have boxed themselves into corners regarding a lot of things with this show lately. The title of this show doesn’t make sense, the premise is pretty much completely gone.. 

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While I like both Josh and Charles, I am team Charles all the way. Especially since I went back to the beginning and watched all the episodes again while waiting for season 5. I picked up on a lot of things that I missed the first time around. Josh is hot and fun and he does love Liza. I think that Liza will always love Josh to a certain extent but to me the interaction of Charles and Liza getting to know each other and the build up of their feelings is just more realistic. Like their feelings are on a deeper level. Lots of people are hating on Charles right now. He is acting immature but he is extremely hurt. Age has nothing to do with it. He thought he knew her and now he doesn't know what to believe. But they shouldn't drag out the "Angry Charles" story line. They need to talk it out. Also I find it funny how many comments say that Charles is boring. Mostly what we see is Charles in his work environment. Where I would like this season to go from here is for Charles to come out of his shell, admit to everyone his feelings for Liza and become more focused on getting what he wants. Maybe show him on a more personal level and have the relationship between Liza and Charles really heat up. I think that Charles could really have a fun, way more likable side to him. He just needs unlock the door. I think Liza has the key :) And Damn he is so HOT!!

Edited by itsreal
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12 hours ago, itsreal said:

Also I find it funny how many comments say that Charles is boring. Mostly what we see is Charles in his work environment. Where I would like this season to go from here is for Charles to come out of his shell, admit to everyone his feelings for Liza and become more focused on getting what he wants. Maybe show him on a more personal level and have the relationship between Liza and Charles really heat up. I think that Charles could really have a fun, way more likable side to him. He just needs unlock the door. I think Liza has the key :) And Damn he is so HOT!!

While I don't really like the way the show has written Charles I'm still hoping that he's like an onion, and that we haven't gotten more than a few layers down yet.  I have said that I thought that he had more depth than it looks like he does and that once he and Liza get together he may open up more and reveal a more interesting side of himself.  

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On 7/15/2018 at 2:01 AM, Yeah No said:

While I don't really like the way the show has written Charles I'm still hoping that he's like an onion, and that we haven't gotten more than a few layers down yet.  I have said that I thought that he had more depth than it looks like he does and that once he and Liza get together he may open up more and reveal a more interesting side of himself.  

Let's hope, because from what we've seen so far, his personality is seriously lacking. The man exhibits almost no charm, charisma, or sense of humor. The one time there was a spark of personality was when he was describing how the guy Liza was just dating (I forget his name) slipped a pork chop into his pocket. There was a glimmer of a personality in the way he described that scene.

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