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S02.E02: Two Girls Kissing

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Courtney makes a brave decision. Clay's memories of Hannah drive a wedge between him and Skye. Someone trashes the yearbook office.

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I have a couple of questions - 

Is Jackie a friend of Hannah's mom? I'm confused on who she is

Why is Tony on probation?

Why is Alex's leg messed up if he shot himself in the head?

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Wow, Courtney actually stepped up. She was pretty awful last season, I am actually surprised that she finally told the truth. Sucks that the asshole lawyer forced her to out herself before she was ready though. I did kind of laugh at Courtney's dads arguing over what LGBTQ movies to watch to talk about Courtney coming out, while Courtney was just sitting there next to them. 

Zack and Alex hanging out is pretty great, I like their banter. Its nice to have a few scenes that arent super depressing. 

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I think Alex’s gunshot to the head  which caused his coma may have partially paralyzed him. He has been through physical therapy which my explain walking with a cane.

Edited by btho1776
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I was really looking forward to this but I'm disappointed so far. It seems like they're just playing for the drama, which I get but last season it seems more real. I'm not a fan of clay and Skye.

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Also, my biggest example of them playing for drama is what they're doing with Tony.  I don't like that they're adding him having some big, bad secret.   And I think the page he burned was from the day he did something to Hannah.  That's what Ryan implied.

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Awww, I wanted to tell Hannah's mom that just because that other lady doesn't carry her kid's sock around anymore because she's moved on doesn't mean that she has to do the same thing. There's no timetable for grief.Take all the time you need and don't feel pressured just because this lady is further along in her grief process.

Man, Clay is bold. He and Skye had sex in his bedroom while his parents were downstairs? I never would have dared to do something like that when I was in high school.

While part of me understands that Skye feels she can't compete with perfect dead Hannah, at the same time it's only been five months since Hannah died, which is not very long at all. On top of that, she killed herself which can make a death even more difficult to deal with. Add to that the guilt he feels about Hannah and it's not at all surprising that he has unresolved feelings for her. But what Skye doesn't yet understand is that it's possible to have messy complicated feelings for someone and still like someone else.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of Skye or Sosie Bacon so I'd be okay with her not being a main focus of Clay's life for the rest of the season. At first it seemed like he was using Skye as a substitute for Hannah because Skye represented someone who he could save this time if he just tried harder.

Poor Courtney. It was bad enough listening to her dads argue about which movies to watch with her but when the camera panned over and revealed that they were having this discussion right in front of her like she wasn't even there, I felt bad for her. I also felt bad that she was forced to come out during her testimony. This is exactly why people don't like defense lawyers.

I'm glad to see that Alex and Zach's friendship is continuing but Zach lost a few points when he lied to Bryce and said he was just helping Alex because their moms are friends. Really? His rich mom is friends with Alex's working class mom? Zach's mom seems a little too concerned with being acquainted with people who can get her somethng. How did she put it? "We need to benefit from our associations."

I also love that Tony and Hannah's mom are still friends. I know it may seem weird to an outsider because of the age difference but I feel like their friendship is not just based solely upon their guilt and grief anymore. They have an ease in their friendship that makes me think they will remain friends (barring any dun dun DUUUUUUUN revelations from Tony about the pages he got from Ryan).

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm glad to see that Alex and Zach's friendship is continuing but Zach lost a few points when he lied to Bryce and said he was just helping Alex because their moms are friends. Really? His rich mom is friends with Alex's working class mom? Zach's mom seems a little too concerned with being acquainted with people who can get her somethng. How did she put it? "We need to benefit from our associations."

I'm definitely disappointed in Zach, but he's been consistent with his cowardice. He wants to be a good person and do the right thing, but that's not always easy, especially someone who's popular, but on the outside still, like Zach is. I have hope that he can stand up for himself sometime this season. He's almost there, but has a ways to go. 

Ok, I get that Clay is unconsciously using Skye and she has some severe issues of her own, but she's also getting on my nerves. I hope this is the last episode where she's in Clay's story front and center with Hannah. I think Skye is very much a teenager, in which she doesn't fully understand that relationships aren't black and white and, adding suicide and unresolved feelings into the mix, it's not going to be easy to just get over one person and start dating another. Skye also has a lot of mental health issues, with anxiety and self loathing and a lot of insecurities, so no matter what Clay had said, she likely wouldn't have stayed satisfied for long. That being said, Clay has been leading Skye on, even subconsciously, and his actions are one out of grief and trauma, so this relationship definitely needed to end. 

So, I said last season that they'd need to do a whole hell of a lot to even have me remotely feel bad for Courtney, as they did a shit job at making her sympathetic, even with her being closeted. I will say, I think they have been succeeding in this episode alone, and it seems like they'll continue. I did feel bad for Courtney. She was basically forced to come out in order to do the right thing, and it's not even a guarantee that it'll help Hannah and her legacy. The actions Courtney took in the courtroom were brave and very big of her. I did feel bad with the scene of her dads talking about her while she was there, but overall, they were supportive and luckily she has that to hang on to. Hopefully, they continue with this path for Courtney, as this episode finally made me sympathize with her.

Alex's interactions with everyone are great. I especially like his growing friendship with Zach. I think both made valid points during their fight, and Alex's anger wasn't necessarily at him, but about everything (especially seeing his coma photos). 

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14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I said last season that they'd need to do a whole hell of a lot to even have me remotely feel bad for Courtney, as they did a shit job at making her sympathetic, even with her being closeted. I will say, I think they have been succeeding in this episode alone, and it seems like they'll continue. I did feel bad for Courtney. She was basically forced to come out in order to do the right thing, and it's not even a guarantee that it'll help Hannah and her legacy.

Same here. I found her so repugnant last season but she earned a lot of sympathy from me after that scene in court. I'm glad that her dads were so supportive afterward, even if their movie selection conversation in front of her was totally awkward.

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So I'm slowly making my way through the season because much as I loved the first season, I regretted bingeing through it in a day and a half because it was way too heavy to absorb that quickly. So I'm choosing to take my time with this season, even though I am loving it as much as Season 1 so far. I'm also having to work hard to avoid spoilers. I swear that stuff just pops up on my social media timeline. 

I wanted to comment on one thing so far after seeing the first two episodes. Okay this may be a bit harsh but honestly, I am not here for the Clay/Skye pairing. In fairness, I wasn't a fan since last season, even though I knew that's where they were going to go in the second season, especially seeing her in the car with him, Tony and Tony's boyfriend at the end of the last season. 

I just think Clay is so obviously transferring his savior complex to Skye in a "she's damaged like Hannah was and I couldn't save Hannah but I can still save Skye". And the fact is, that's not how mental illness works, especially when we're talking about characters so young. Skye is a cutter. That's clearly rooted in some deep-seated emotional and psychological issues and Clay cannot love her enough to fix that. Especially when Clay has his own mental illness issues that I hope the season will eventually address. 

I know there is a tendency sometimes, especially in Young Adult stories to romanticize two damaged people finding each other but that doesn't really work in the real world. I don't know, I just find Skye so broken and sad, more so than Hannah ever was to be honest. Hannah was actually pretty happy and vivacious, until all the crap started happening to her and it was pile on upon pile on that eventually culminated in the rape by Bryce and that being the final straw. I just find Clay and Skye awkward and painful together to be honest. 

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While I get the point of the Skye and Clay storyline, it does not help that they are just too incompatible (even though I appreciate something like street art, I don't need Clay to do it), and the actors have very little chemistry. I also didn't think the actress is that great. The actress who plays Alex's mom played a character with mental issues on Dawson's Creek, and she was so great. 

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19 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

The actress who plays Alex's mom played a character with mental issues on Dawson's Creek, and she was so great. 

Oh yes, Pacey and Andie. My true love Dawson's Creek ship (yes, come at me Pacey/Joey shippers). It's why I quit Dawson's Creek in Season 3 because I was forever bitter with how they crapped on that pairing to facilitate the Pacey/Joey pairing. Sorry, off topic, moving on...

 

21 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

and the actors have very little chemistry.

This so much. I definitely think the pairing could have survived all the issues I have with it, if the actors had amazing chemistry together. I mean I would still have the same criticisms and issues but I think I'd be a bit more receptive if there was at least great chemistry. But there isn't. And the problem isn't Dylan Minnette in my opinion because I thought Clay and Hannah had good chemistry and even him and Sherry last season. 

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Am I the only one who, when we saw Meredith Monroe as Alex's mom, immediately Googled her age? And went, "Goddammit, she's 48?!!" And then felt about a million years old to realize that one of the teen characters from Dawson's Creek (who admittedly never looked like a real teenager) is now pushing 50 and playing the mother of a teen?

Edited by Chicken Wing
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Since Courtney was raised by two gay fathers, I would imagine that she would have absolutely no problem "coming out" from day one, if she was gay. It would be completely normal and legitimate for her. I don't get her apprehension. 

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Aside from Hannah and the tapes, coming out is not at easy. If coming out to the family is easy, it may not be so easy to come out to the public (work, school, etc). Rather than keep two identities apart, it easier to just stay inside. A lot of gay celebs get flack for perhaps being out to their closed ones but not to the public at large.

Alex became friends with Zach early on, which allowed Alex entryway to the rest of the jocks, which resulted in that hot or not list. Zach views him as a real friend. He was he first of the group to find out about Alex's suicide. Psychologically, him helping eases his anguish over Hannah's death and his grief over his dad's death.

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On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:33 PM, BigDfromLA said:

Since Courtney was raised by two gay fathers, I would imagine that she would have absolutely no problem "coming out" from day one, if she was gay. It would be completely normal and legitimate for her. I don't get her apprehension. 

I don't think she was worried about rejection from her dads.  She was worked about the reaction at school, having seen the slurs used and rumors spread, she did not  want to be the center of attention and called the derogatory names of "Lesbo" or "Dyke."  In fact, since she's probably already had to deal with some intolerance with regard to her dads, it might have made her even more scared to come out. Just my take on it.  

Edited by AzraeltheCat
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The Kelli O'Hara character (who is staying with Hannah's mom)--RAGE. How fucking DARE she wash that dress? I would've thrown her out of the house. Of all people, of ALL people, she should've known how gross an invasion of privacy that was, what a huge betrayal. What a cruel thing to do, whether or not she was intending to be cruel.

Jessica is still sleeping on her parents' floor? It's been months, can they not break out the wallet for a new bed for her?

I never understood why so many commenters said that Hannah was a drama queen. Skye? Skye is a drama queen. And it's really tasteless to fondle your BF under the table when having dinner with his parents. 

Shoutout to whoever commented on their having sex while Clay's parents were below. My parents would've knocked the tar out of me had I tried that. 

Proud of Courtney for stepping up, although it was disgusting of the defense attorney to force her to make that revelation.

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On 5/26/2018 at 10:13 AM, Chicken Wing said:

Am I the only one who, when we saw Meredith Monroe as Alex's mom, immediately Googled her age? And went, "Goddammit, she's 48?!!" And then felt about a million years old to realize that one of the teen characters from Dawson's Creek (who admittedly never looked like a real teenager) is now pushing 50 and playing the mother of a teen?

In fairness, wasn't she almost 30 playing a teenager on Dawson's Creek?

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On 6/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

The Kelli O'Hara character (who is staying with Hannah's mom)--RAGE. How fucking DARE she wash that dress? I would've thrown her out of the house. Of all people, of ALL people, she should've known how gross an invasion of privacy that was, what a huge betrayal. What a cruel thing to do, whether or not she was intending to be cruel.

Jessica is still sleeping on her parents' floor? It's been months, can they not break out the wallet for a new bed for her?

I never understood why so many commenters said that Hannah was a drama queen. Skye? Skye is a drama queen. And it's really tasteless to fondle your BF under the table when having dinner with his parents. 

Shoutout to whoever commented on their having sex while Clay's parents were below. My parents would've knocked the tar out of me had I tried that. 

Proud of Courtney for stepping up, although it was disgusting of the defense attorney to force her to make that revelation.

To be fair, I don't think they ended up having sex.  His flag faded too early for that.

But yes, bold choice with your parents downstairs, as was running down the steps after her with no shirt on.  After Skye loudly slammed the doors and took off his mom should have been all over him.

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I feel bad for Skye, but I don't like them together. I also don't like it when people grab each other like that in front of family like that. I'd be pissed if someone did that to me. 

So Hannah's parents split up? 

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I found Hannah's statement that Clay seems less afraid when he's with Skye and that that makes her sad to be fairly heartbreaking.  Assuming she's a hallucination, that seems to be Clay's way of acknowledging that he was too afraid with Hannah and that this fear kept him from being the kind of friend (at least) that she needed.

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