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S02.E06: The Smile At The End Of The Dock

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Clay tries to figure out where the Polaroids were taken. Justin shows up at school. Zach's revelation about Hannah takes everyone by surprise.

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Well, that was an episode.

This episode was really great. Since Zach is one of my favourites, I liked learning more about him and Hannah. I actually really loved their flashbacks together. You see, I get that we're supposed to like Clay and Hannah or whatever, but Hannah/Zach is the couple that could have been. It was kind of adorable to see Zach nervous. This episode cemented that Zach truly is a good guy who has just made bad choices. I was surprised at the revelation of him and Hannah as well, as last season seemed to indicate that nothing happened between the two. But this episode did a nice job explaining how, and why Hannah felt the need to include him in her tapes, but leave out the relationship part.

I feel like, with Clay, he holds Hannah on this pedestal, imagining what could have been and just seeing Hannah as a "perfect" embodiment of what he pictured her to be. It seems to be more fantasy for him. But with Zach, at least this episode convinced me that he genuinely cared about her, but it wasn't quite enough to drop everything in his life for her, to disappoint his mother by not being perfect, or dropping his athletic popularity. Which is a real shame, because in another world, he could have been with Hannah, if he was strong enough.

Clay's just a straight up asshole. I hope we're not supposed to like him, because he really is becoming the worst culprit here. His obsession with Hannah is keeping him from seeing straight. I think, if Hannah had seen this side to Clay, she might not have included in Clay's tape how he didn't deserve to be there. He's acting like an obsessive jealous ex here, and it's not a good look on him. Clay, you think you deserved Hannah any more than Zach? At this point, I'm starting to really not give a shit that he's acting out because of his grief. He's acting like Hannah's the worst person ever for not sharing everything with him and choosing not to be with him but with other guys. Clay is really displaying Nice Guy qualities, and I don't like it.

Also, if Justin, of all people, is telling you that you're a dumbass, then you better listen. Because it's Justin, who started the slut rumours in the first place and is a pretty big damn hypocrite, but also not wrong.

I'm starting to get some really bad feelings about Tyler's new friend. I probably should have figured it out earlier.

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I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

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Clay's out of control jealousy is making me so angry. YOU DON'T OWN HANNAH. I mean seriously, for fuck's sake. Just because you liked her doesn't mean that she's not allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants. You were not her boyfriend. You don't get to act like she betrayed you or cheated on you.

Instead of being happy that Hannah had one summer of being in a consensual relationship that made her happy, Clay decides that because she had the fucking audacity to take control of her sexuality and decide to have sex with someone, he is no longer interested in getting justice for her.

Suddenly Bryce raping her isn't worth fighting for because Clay got his poor little feelings hurt by the knowledge that Hannah wanted to have sex with someone other than him.

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Zach and Hannah were SO CUTE. That first time he kisses her and she kind of pauses and he's like " ... Wait, what's happening here?" I howled. It was just SO awkward teenage boy (although that actor the least believable teenager ever; the actor is 28 and it shows).

14 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

I agree. She loses her virginity and has a months-long relationship (I don't think they were "official," but that's what it was) with a guy she likes who then blows her off and lets his friends make fun of her, and she says nothing? It seems like exactly the kind of thing she'd mention.

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16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

 

16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

 

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Zach and Hannah were SO CUTE. That first time he kisses her and she kind of pauses and he's like " ... Wait, what's happening here?" I howled. It was just SO awkward teenage boy (although that actor the least believable teenager ever; the actor is 28 and it shows).

I agree. She loses her virginity and has a months-long relationship (I don't think they were "official," but that's what it was) with a guy she likes who then blows her off and lets his friends make fun of her, and she says nothing? It seems like exactly the kind of thing she'd mention.

I agree. That would’ve been much more likely to be on the tape. Zach’s complete rejection of letting his friends know he was involved with Hannah would be crushing and more likely the “reason” for her actions. This was the problem with a 2nd season that expands from the source material. They had to come up with stories that completely contradict the 1st season narrative. 

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Zach seems like a pretty decent guy who was too weak to stand up to his bad friends. 

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One of the hilarious moments in this episode was Bryce angrily drinking out of his milk carton. That was like watching someone try to stomp out of a room wearing flip flops. 

I'm still so annoyed with Clay. He thinks Zach didn't deserve her? Well, judging by your behavior, Clay, you didn't either. She didn't owe you her virginity or anything else for that matter.

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This was the best episode so far, imo. As others have said, Clay is starting to become very punchable with his possessive views on Hannah and how she should be. It's so annoying but so teenage boy (or girl). I was very dramatic and "principled" as a teen, and Clay sadly reminds me of me, which is embarrassing.

I was very emotional during the group therapy scenes, I thought they were well done.

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Although I know in theory that everyone is judging Hannah for every little thing she did and that girls are always judged for their sexuality, it seems really hypocritical that Clay was insistent that Zach admitting he had sex with Hannah was bad for the trial but somehow he didn't go yell at Ryan for telling testifying that some of Hannah's poems were about Justin. While I totally respect that they were under oath, I also thought it was weird that both Ryan and Zach chose to admit things that NO ONE ELSE KNEW. If they had lied on the stand and said, "No, I don't know who those poems were about," and "Hannah and I were just friends," no one would have challenged that. No one could have proven otherwise. No one would have known they were lying to protect Hannah. Were they that afraid of perjury?

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Yeah, no way in hell would this have been left out of the tapes. 

The relationship is a complete and total retcon, but damn if they weren’t completely adorable together.

Grow up, Clay.  Really says a lot that Justin was the voice of reason in that scene. 

And between the drugs and sex with multiple partners, Justin should probably get tested for... everything. 

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I can’t believe how much chemistry Zach and Hannah had in this episode. Like, I did NOT expect that, even with the hint of it last season!

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On 5/20/2018 at 11:35 PM, Last Time Lord said:

Yeah, no way in hell would this have been left out of the tapes. 

The relationship is a complete and total retcon, but damn if they weren’t completely adorable together.

Grow up, Clay.  Really says a lot that Justin was the voice of reason in that scene. 

And between the drugs and sex with multiple partners, Justin should probably get tested for... everything. 

Exactly. I loved seeing them together but being some popular boy's "secret girlfriend" is pretty much exactly the type of shit Hannah was talking about on those tapes and it would have been very hurtful for Hannah to have a guy she trusted and cared about be ashamed of his relationship with her. 

They should have had Hannah be the one to decide she didn't want the relationship public for the whole thing to be more believable. If she was worried the people at school would continue to give her shit for "being a slut" or didn't want Clay to find out cause she knew he was into her, that would at least explain why she left it off the tapes. 

And Clay continues to be the worst. 

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I really enjoyed this episode. Yes, it’s totally unrealistic that this relationship was never mentioned before, but moving beyond that point, I liked seeing Hannah happy with Zack (who has always been one of my favorites). Even though the way Zack ended things was shitty, he seemed remorseful then and obviously even more so now. It was also more of a relatable teenaged problem (thankfully) instead of the outright villainy shown in the series, which made it more poignant for me.

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Just confused so he apologizes to her about stealing her positive notes she forgives him they start romantic relationship and then she leaves out of her tapes but chooses to bring up something she had moved past by time she made the tapes. Also was misunderstanding of Hanna thinking he just threw her note away that he actually kept explained?  Maybe I've missed something 

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On 5/19/2018 at 10:17 PM, Lady Calypso said:

This episode cemented that Zach truly is a good guy who has just made bad choices.

Funny because it cemented to me how weak and a coward he is. Zach reminds me of what one of the Little Rock Nine women said on Oprah's show, when they were discussing the racism and verbal abuse they got when they started at the previously white school. Some of their old white classmates were in the audience and one of them was this guy who never said anything hateful to any of them but he never did a thing to stop it or ever speak to any of them or try to befriend them. He just kept his head down and didn't get involved.  And the woman said that that that guy actually represented most of the students. That the bullies were actually just a few people. The greater threat was the silence and turning a blind eye from the other students. 

That's Zach. And that's why I couldn't get into this relationship between he and Hannah we previously never knew about, because not only do I feel like this is some total rewrite (not surprising since let's face it, there was no source material to go on for Season 2, since the book ends with Clay's giving the tapes to the next person), mainly to drive the "Clay had blinders on and made Hannah into this perfect person and he's realizing she wasn't and is being a slut shaming dick about it" narrative but I don't buy that Hannah wouldn't have seen that coward quality in Zach. And that not only would she start hooking up with him but really believe they would be boyfriend and girlfriend. 

 

On 5/22/2018 at 3:05 PM, project90 said:

Also was misunderstanding of Hanna thinking he just threw her note away that he actually kept explained? 

I think there was no real explanation to be had. It just seemed like Hannah remembered him throwing it away but he actually didn't. But I completely agree with your other point. I guess the explanation they might use is that the real reason Zach was one of her reasons was for his essentially being too coward to be with her publicly but she was too embarrassed, even if she was about to kill herself, for people to know that and so she just talked about the notes and his throwing away her letter. The whole thing still feels like a stretch to me. 

Because while Clay was being a jealous, judgmental tool, his question wondering why Hannah freaked out the way she did when they almost hooked up at Jessica's party but apparently had a summer of passionate sex with Zach, is valid. Because last season clearly showed that Hannah's freak out came from her remembering Bryce grabbing her ass, Marcus assaulting her in public, the photo Justin took being circulated, etc. All that stuff happened before this supposed relationship with Zach. I guess now they'll say she was also thinking about that shame of his not wanting to be seen in public with her but the whole thing is kind of hard to buy. 

We are now being asked to buy that Hannah was still hung up on Justin who allowed a picture of her with her underwear exposed to be passed around and lied about how far they went. Then that she lost her virginity to Zach, one of the jocks in that crowd and spent a summer having copious amounts of sex with him that she clearly really enjoyed. But then her and Clay kissing at Jessica's party triggered so many bad memories that it made her yell and scream at him like she was being attacked. I mean yeah, asswipe though Clay may be, I'd be kind of offended too. 

I get the story that the writers are trying to tell here but this is the first time where I felt like they went a really contrived and forced route to tell it. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Yeah, that was definitely a retcon, but I hardly even care, because the flashbacks were with Zach and Hannah were so cute, and when Zach ditched her out of fear for being judged was so sad. I think Zach is a good hearted person, but he is also a follower who is too afraid to stand up to his friends, of even his mom. I feel bad for him, but I also hope this is something of a wake up call for him. He clearly knows what his flaws are, so I hope that he can finally tell his awful friends to shove it. Its not a good trait, but I certainly knew plenty of teens at my high school who didnt bully people, but were too afraid to stand up for bullies, out of fear of being targeted themselves. Its not nice, but its real. 

I really felt bad for him when he admitted to his mom that he thought about wanting to die after his dad died, and she just kept telling him that couldn't be true, even while he was clearly about to break down crying. Will people here never learn?

Wow Clay. When even Justin thinks your an asshole, you really need to reevaluate your life choices. So because Hannah slept with Zach and not him, he doesn't care about getting justice for anymore, and he doesn't "know" her? How has Clay become one of the most assy characters in the whole cast this season? Sure, it makes sense for a teen, but still, get it together! He is really becoming a dick in his obsession with his vision of who Hannah was, and its making him creepy and selfish. Maybe because most of the characters who acted like asshole last year are admitting what they did was wrong and are feeling guilt or trying to make it right, and are so clearly suffering horribly because of the consequences of their actions, while Clay is just running around being self riotous and slut shaming his dead friends ghost. 

At least Jessica is talking at last. And Alex finally has a tiny breakthrough. With Zach. In the shower room. Half naked, Well thats...interesting.

Edited by tennisgurl
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6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Because while Clay was being a jealous, judgmental tool, his question wondering why Hannah freaked out the way she did when they almost hooked up at Jessica's party but apparently had a summer of passionate sex with Zach, is valid. Because last season clearly showed that Hannah's freak out came from her remembering Bryce grabbing her ass, Marcus assaulting her in public, the photo Justin took being circulated, etc.

Healing from trauma is an ongoing process, similar to grief. You have good days and bad days. You think you're okay and then you have a setback. Sometimes what happens is you think that you've gotten over something and then some small thing triggers a feeling or a memory inside you. As someone who was sexually assaulted, I can tell you that afterward, sometime I was able to be with a guy and I was totally fine and other times I would freeze or suddenly feel panicked (even if we were fully clothed and just making out). It's not something you can control and honestly, it's not always a logical reaction or a conscious decision.

The best comparison I have is sneezing or coughing. Sometimes you feel it creeping up and you can try to stop i but other times it just happens suddenly without any warning and there's no way to stop it from happening.

Maybe being drunk is what caused Hannah to freak out with Clay. Maybe it was being at a party with so many of the people who had been dicks to her. Maybe it was just anxiety that had been building up inside of her over the previous school year. It might also be that she felt safe with Zach (heh, you know, because he doesn't have the same obsessive/possessive attitude that Clay does). But whatever it was that caused that reaction, I can't really blame her for it because she did not seem in control of her emotions (which, again, may have been caused by the drinking).

I know that Olivia's reaction to finding out about Hannah and Zach having sex all summer was realistic for most parents, but at the same time her whole "How could I not know?" was a bit much for me. How many teenage girls announce to their parents that they've having sex in their bedroom all day long while their parents are at work? Of all the women I know, none of them told their parents, "Hey, guess what I did while you were at work today? I lost my virginity!" or "How was your day? I spent mine fucking this boy upstairs!"

As for Hannah still being hung up on Justin after that picture got passed around, I totally buy that. How many people do you know have stayed in bad relationships "because I love him/her!"?  Add teenage hormones to the mix and it's even more believable. People can't help how they feel about someone else ("the heart wants what the heart wants"), so I get Hannah being hung up on Justin. But what I like is that she KNEW she still liked him but didn't act on it. She didn't pursue him or date him again so in that sense, she was making more mature decisions than some adults I know who are in shitty relationships.

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really felt bad for him when he admitted to his mom that he thought about wanting to die after his dad died, and she just kept telling him that couldn't be true, even while he was clearly about to break down crying. Will people here never learn?

Yeah, that was really sad. He just told her that the reason he doesn't talk to her about some of these things is because they don't talk about feelings in their family so she had the opportunity to change that, but instead when he tried to talk to her about his dad's death and feeling hopeless/suicidal, she shut him down. Poor guy.

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7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, that was definitely a retcon, but I hardly even care, because the flashbacks were with Zach and Hannah were so cute,

I can suspend disbelief on a lot of things but frankly I spent that whole segment rolling my eyes so much at the sheer contrivance of the storyline that I couldn't find any of it cute. Not to mention that it doesn't help that while on some level I can sympathize with Zach because it is not always easy to stand up for what's right, I find him far too weak and a coward to ever really like the character.  

 

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Healing from trauma is an ongoing process, similar to grief. You have good days and bad days. You think you're okay and then you have a setback. Sometimes what happens is you think that you've gotten over something and then some small thing triggers a feeling or a memory inside you. As someone who was sexually assaulted, I can tell you that afterward, sometime I was able to be with a guy and I was totally fine and other times I would freeze or suddenly feel panicked (even if we were fully clothed and just making out). It's not something you can control and honestly, it's not always a logical reaction or a conscious decision.

I am sorry for what you went through and as someone who has never been sexually assaulted, I'm not going to dismiss you or anyone's feelings on the storyline. That said, I still can only speak as a viewer and in my opinion, when it feels like so many twists and turns have to be made to make sense of a storyline then it was just bad. Bad and contrived. We have to rationalize so many things now for this whole thing to have made sense and I just don't buy it. 

Frankly watching this episode was the first time I truly rolled my eyes at this show and it made me understand why The Hollywood Reporter gave it such a scathing negative review. I was surprised when I saw it because despite the controversy over some of the content in the first season, the reviews were stellar across the board. This time, THR summed it up as essentially an over dramatic, contrived mess hitting every possible cliche it could. Like I said, it's not like I didn't get what the writers were going for here. I just feel like if you have to rewrite your story and make up some contrived, out of left field stuff to tell it, then that's a problem. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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9 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Funny because it cemented to me how weak and a coward he is. Zach reminds me of what one of the Little Rock Nine women said on Oprah's show, when they were discussing the racism and verbal abuse they got when they started at the previously white school. Some of their old white classmates were in the audience and one of them was this guy who never said anything hateful to any of them but he never did a thing to stop it or ever speak to any of them or try to befriend them. He just kept his head down and didn't get involved.  And the woman said that that that guy actually represented most of the students. That the bullies were actually just a few people. The greater threat was the silence and turning a blind eye from the other students. 

I think that Zach can be a coward and also be a good person at the same time. Like I said, he's a good guy, but he's made a few shitty choices as a teenager. I don't think that negates the good that he does have inside of him. He just has some more growing up to do and he has to mature more in order to be the best self he can be. And yeah, that may not happen until he's an adult, until he's out of high school and in a new environment. That's what happened to me, which is why I can relate to Zach. I was a coward throughout high school and was afraid to really speak up and speak out. I do now and I do it with confidence, but only because of certain university experiences with an abusive ex best friend and roommate at the time. High school, I think I was more ignorant than anything but yes, also a coward. I guess that's why I like Zach. I recognize a little of him in me when I was in high school. He feels pressured to be a certain way that it causes him to hide away from any sort of change that might disappoint others. And yeah, that may be a different type of cruel, but it's one that can be changed and that he can grow out of. 

He's shown kindness toward Hannah as well as cruelty with choosing his dumb jock friends over her, which is why he was included in her tapes. But he did truly care for her. Sure, the relationship here was a retcon, but one that did add to Zach as a character, adding to his flaws but also showing the strength of his good his heart is if it wasn't shadowed with his biggest vice: cowardice. 

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2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But he did truly care for her. Sure, the relationship here was a retcon, but one that did add to Zach as a character, adding to his flaws but also showing the strength of his good his heart is if it wasn't shadowed with his biggest vice: cowardice. 

YMMV but again for me, no, it just made him worse. Zach in season 1 was a guy who just silently sat by while his friends were assholes and didn't say anything and then tried to talk to Hannah but she went off on him publicly because she was going through a lot and then he acted like a spoiled brat and stole her notes in some class. Like Clay says in the first episode, dickish sure but not the most horrible thing in the world. Zach from this episode was a guy who slept with Hannah, spent a summer being with her and as soon as summer was over, chose his douchebag friends over her and when she tried to hold onto some semblance of pride by being the one to yank the bandaid off and end things, he just passively went "okay..." and that's it.

Didn't even attempt to change her mind, fight for her in any way, etc. Like I said, I get doing the right thing is hard at times, I get that not everyone can stand up against bullies, I get that these characters are supposed to be very young, etc. but I'm sorry, no amount of beautiful lighting and sunlit scenes will make me romanticize this rewrite and retcon relationship and buy that he really cared for her. No, he liked her well enough, was attracted to her and I guess the sex was really good apparently by the way they spoke about it. But at the end of the day, he was a coward who fucked her over just like his other friends did and if I have to buy this rewritten relationship, frankly likely left her more fucked up and broken than she was before because at that point, there was the complication of her having sex with said person, the most intimate and vulnerable one can be with another person.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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The episode also showed a sex positive message, where the teens engaged in a consensual, safe, and exploratory sexual act. Yes, it was contrived, but it worked for me. It was also Hannah at her most engaging this season (although I enjoyed her scenes with Ryan and Tony too).

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The moment when Zach was putting on the condom with a face full of concentration and then announced it was OK was hilarious.  I loved him and Hannah together, and I don't even care that it's a retcon.  I think they did a good job of showing how having a mother like Zach's who won't let him feel anything but "fine" about anything and everything has caused him to be so incapable of expressing himself that he so often has made cowardly choices; I find it really sad because he does have so many lovely qualities.

Alex's boner after wrestling with Zach also made me laugh, but it also kind of confirmed what I thought was the root cause of his inability to get a boner watching lady porn or kissing Jessica.

Clay can go fuck himself.  Seriously.  He has become just awful.  He's dropped so far down the rankings of the regular characters; he's ahead of only Bryce (obviously) and Marcus (but kind of barely).  I even like Ryan more than Clay right now, and I hate Ryan!  Ugh.

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Why has Zach been spending so much time with Alex, helping him with his rehab so much? I don't get it.

Clay gets less and less likeable each episode of season 2. He is super selfish as well.

Porter has really really lost it. He will end up in a mental institution before long.

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Zach must be SUPER duper sexy to everyone in this episode.  He is the ONLY person who has successfully convinced Hannah, the girl everyone in the show is attracted to, to consent to not only sexual relations, but to losing her virginity, with him.  She appeared to really, really enjoy the sex too.  Zach also gave Alex an erection, in this very same episode!  On top of that, I’m super thirsty for him.  So there’s that. Haha.  Zach turning everyone on in this episode, over and over again!

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I totally agree with the others saying that this would totally have been included in the tapes. She had nothing to lose and was outing all those that had hurt her. It was very sad to see that they had chemistry and were really cute in that music video type montage and that it turned out the way it did. He looked remorseful at the trial.

I think it's funny that Clay says "If I was in town last summer, that could have been me". What he doesn't consider is that Zach actually made a move and asked Hannah out and spent time talking to her. My husband likes to point out that Clay's inability to talk to her (and others not talking) has caused so many of these tragedies.

What this show should teach us all is to open up and TALK and share.

Edited by kimbrchick
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What I don't understand is we are lead to believe that all the popular guys thought Hannah was hot.  Justin lied and made it seem she was easy. So that sort of ruined her reputation.  All his friends knew Zach was a virgin. So what was the big deal hiding their relationship? His friends thought Hannah was attractive and Zach really did have sex with her. Why couldn't they have been a couple? That's what's lost on me. But Zach seeming ashamed 9f the relationship made Hannah bitter and that's what I thought would have been on the tapes. So that retcon hurt the believability of Zach's tape. Under normal circumstances Clay would have come back to Hannah and Zach dating and him missing his chance with her because of going away.

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1 hour ago, callmebetty said:

So what was the big deal hiding their relationship? His friends thought Hannah was attractive and Zach really did have sex with her. Why couldn't they have been a couple? That's what's lost on me.

Because they didn't just think she was attractive, as in, "oh yeah, Hannah's hot". At that point, thanks to Justin's lie and Bryce's being a misogynistic asshole, she was the loose chick with a nice ass who would give it up easily that they all ragged on and made fun of. And so despite Zach's being well aware none of that was true since he was the one who took her virginity and he saw Marcus essentially publicly assault her, he still wasn't strong enough to risk publicly dating her and having his friends rag on him and make snide comments like he knew they would. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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On 5/19/2018 at 10:17 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Well, that was an episode.

This episode was really great. Since Zach is one of my favourites, I liked learning more about him and Hannah. I actually really loved their flashbacks together. You see, I get that we're supposed to like Clay and Hannah or whatever, but Hannah/Zach is the couple that could have been. It was kind of adorable to see Zach nervous. This episode cemented that Zach truly is a good guy who has just made bad choices. I was surprised at the revelation of him and Hannah as well, as last season seemed to indicate that nothing happened between the two. But this episode did a nice job explaining how, and why Hannah felt the need to include him in her tapes, but leave out the relationship part.

I feel like, with Clay, he holds Hannah on this pedestal, imagining what could have been and just seeing Hannah as a "perfect" embodiment of what he pictured her to be. It seems to be more fantasy for him. But with Zach, at least this episode convinced me that he genuinely cared about her, but it wasn't quite enough to drop everything in his life for her, to disappoint his mother by not being perfect, or dropping his athletic popularity. Which is a real shame, because in another world, he could have been with Hannah, if he was strong enough.

Clay's just a straight up asshole. I hope we're not supposed to like him, because he really is becoming the worst culprit here. His obsession with Hannah is keeping him from seeing straight. I think, if Hannah had seen this side to Clay, she might not have included in Clay's tape how he didn't deserve to be there. He's acting like an obsessive jealous ex here, and it's not a good look on him. Clay, you think you deserved Hannah any more than Zach? At this point, I'm starting to really not give a shit that he's acting out because of his grief. He's acting like Hannah's the worst person ever for not sharing everything with him and choosing not to be with him but with other guys. Clay is really displaying Nice Guy qualities, and I don't like it.

Also, if Justin, of all people, is telling you that you're a dumbass, then you better listen. Because it's Justin, who started the slut rumours in the first place and is a pretty big damn hypocrite, but also not wrong.

I'm starting to get some really bad feelings about Tyler's new friend. I probably should have figured it out earlier.

Zach and Hannah are sweetly adorable here. What a shame he couldn't laugh off his friends.

Tyler and his friend both are scaring me. Tyler has gone from self-proclaimed victim to this arrogant, strutting jerk.

Can't say I'm surprised about Alex's newfound sexuality. Man, the team gets bigger every day! Courtney, Alex...

...I'm also wondering if there's more to the story of Jessica's rape--did Justin have more to do with it than just essentially allowing Bryce to rape her? 

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They were cute together, but it was too much for me. Last year, we see the note that she wrote, and her looking for understanding. Nothing about this, at all. She was rejected by so many people, and that was what did her in. I don't  buy this Summer love affair, at all. 

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41 minutes ago, Anela said:

They were cute together, but it was too much for me. Last year, we see the note that she wrote, and her looking for understanding. Nothing about this, at all. She was rejected by so many people, and that was what did her in. I don't  buy this Summer love affair, at all. 

There's just too much that has to be rationalized for the whole thing to make sense and when you have to do that, then that's just bad storytelling. They could have shoehorned in some summer friendship that was previously not mentioned, even though that would still be a stretch. But it would definitely be slightly more believable than this whole sunlit days (to quote J.K. Rowling's awful writing of Harry/Ginny's lame romance), swoony love affair with never ending passionate and amazing sex that we were suddenly asked to buy. Because there is no way I can believe that that happened, then this girl later kills herself and leaves tapes calling out every person for the ways they played a part in her journey and this entire relationship is just ignored. I mean come on now. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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When Clay came back from his vacation, he did invite Hannah to Jessica's party. Maybe not truly outright, but it was still a big step for Clay. Had he stayed in town, he and Hannah probably would have worked together pretty much full time. 

I will forever be a Clannah. 

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God, these retcons are really starting to grind my gears. There is no way Zach's tape would have been about the compliment stealing and throwing away the letter when all of this happened. And no, the "she didn't put everything on the tapes" isn't good enough here, not by a mile.

Also Clay being such an asshole seems to be really out of character for him, from how we saw him in season one. This isn't character development, this is character assasination by the writers.

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8 minutes ago, Miles said:

There is no way Zach's tape would have been about the compliment stealing and throwing away the letter when all of this happened. And no, the "she didn't put everything on the tapes" isn't good enough here, not by a mile.

ICAM. I don't care how pretty they were together and how great the chemistry was, that retcon relationship was one of the worse parts of the season, IMO. Simply because it made no narrative sense, period.

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