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S02.E13: Bye

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One month later, Hannah's loved ones celebrate her life and find comfort in each other. Meanwhile, a brutal assault pushes one student over the edge.

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Finished.  I really liked the portrayal of parents on this show.  I really ended up loving Alex’s parents even though his dad will always be Jacob from Lost for me.

I was worried throughout the episodes that Zach was playing them and was actually one of the rapists. He and Alex were really the best part of the show for me.

Happy that Courtney redeemed herself.  Marcus is still awful....and am I off in thinking Marcus may be gay? Did not like that Nina burned all the photos.  Those were not hers to burn.

I guess next season we get to look forward to teen pregnancy and heroin abuse.

Edited by AttackTurtle
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I finished. What a sad ending. Not only do we have a teen pregnancy, heroin, we also are going to have a fallout from the police being called, Clay with the gun, and them helpin Tyler get away. With Santa Fe, and Netflix canceling the party for the show, I really thought Tyler was going to kill his classmates. When the group surrounded Clay when the song came on, with Tyler’s “friends” standing behind them, I mute my tv. I didnt want to hear/see it if they did go there. 

I very much liked the adoption story. The fight when tying the tie made it seem like the boys were already starting to act like brothers with their bickering. And I really enjoyed the friendship between Zach and Alex. The learning how to dance scene caused me to tear up.

I hope the ladies have more to do next season. I hope Jessica gets to make more choices than having the boys constantly try to pressure her into things.

Overall, I still wish there had been a teacher protrayed as someone fighting for their students (other than the counselor this season). This whole group of teens should be in therapy. And someone should be going through Justin’s stuff on the daily.

Edited by SnoGirl
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Well, that happened. Don't really know how I feel about this season. That scene with Tyler and Montgomery was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen on TV. I feel like they did it only for the shock value.

Overall thoughts about the season:

The bad:

- Hannah as a ghost (I felt like she didn't add anything of value to the narrative. I get that they wanted to keep the actress but she was in all the flashbacks so I don't get why she needed to be a ghost as well)

- Justin's drug addiction

- Jessica cheating on Alex in the end

- Chloe and the pregnancy

- The Tyler thing

- Skye's and Clay's relationship. They just weren't believable. At all.

The good:

- I really liked Mr. Porter. His testimony made me tear up.

- Justin's and Clay's reluctant friendship (Justin lounging around Clay's house always eating something made me crak up every time)

- Zach's and Alex's friendship

- The group sticking together at the end

- Bryce's mom (she saw right throught him) and Clay's dad (one of the coolest dad on TV)

The things I don't understand:

- Why would anyone in their right mind send their kid to a school like Liberty High?

- Why would the Jensens adopt Justin? I get that they want to do something nice for him but why jump right to adoption? Why don't they try fostering first?

- Why did Nina burn the pictures?

- Where did Justin get the drugs? Didn't he just return from the juvie? And why was he arrested in the first place?

- Zach's and Hannah's relationship. Like where did that come from?

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Generally, the season was pretty good but wildly uneven. The final scene was a rather wish fulfillment but ultimately glad that they did not go there with a school shooting. The washroom scene was so disturbing. 

The goods: good acting, a lot of the parents (especially Alex's dad and Jessica's dad) behaved in ways I did not expect, strengthening of certain friendships. My acting MVP is Porter.

The bad: A lot of the women not Jessica did very little, Clay was really annoying (he hangs out with all the jocks not rapists, the goths, and Sheri has the hots for him even though he treats her like crap), and I hate the emphasis on the trial.

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I have no idea what to think honestly. In season 1 Hannah I've found Hannah annoying but this season I missed her, she brought something special to the show. Hannah as a ghost didn't work, the flashbacks weren't much more interesting either. Clay was even more annoying but I liked their season 1 dynamic, the song made me cry. I see why so many people switched to Hannah & Zach but I'll forever be Hannah & Clay *goes into hiding*.

The relationship between Clay and Justin was adorable. 

So many uninteresting plots, the emphasis on the trial got tired very fast. There wasn't much storyline, the season could have had like 3-4 episodes and it'd be more than enough.

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Re Why did Nina burn the pictures, she represents the victim who refuses to share her trauma publicly. It is very sad. That said, the Polaroid made up so much of the marketing but in the scheme of things, it made little impact on the show.

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5 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Re Why did Nina burn the pictures, she represents the victim who refuses to share her trauma publicly. It is very sad. That said, the Polaroid made up so much of the marketing but in the scheme of things, it made little impact on the show.

I would understand if she destroyed pictures featuring her or her friends but she had no right to burn all of them.

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This show should’ve stuck with just 1 season because season 2 was a huge bust imo. 

Ghost Hannah was so stupid and the school got more ridiculous each episode.

I won’t be watching season 3 if there is one which I’m assuming there will be going by the ending.

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1 hour ago, Marley said:

This show should’ve stuck with just 1 season because season 2 was a huge bust imo. 

Ghost Hannah was so stupid and the school got more ridiculous each episode.

I won’t be watching season 3 if there is one which I’m assuming there will be going by the ending.

I don't see Hannah as being a ghost but as a way of showing that Clay wasn't over her in the slightest and him "talking" to her would be like someone else who's grieving and asking "why" etc. Then upon learning about her and Zach it crushed the ideal he had of her in his mind. He put her up on such a high pedestal that she could do no wrong in his eyes (hence his asshole reaction toward Zach as if Clay was somehow more deserving of Hannah and her virginity). 

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15 hours ago, Asha124 said:

I would understand if she destroyed pictures featuring her or her friends but she had no right to burn all of them.

I binged the whole season yesterday, and I admit, I was in and out for some of it, so I must have missed it, but how did she come into possession of the photos? 

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31 minutes ago, reggiejax said:

I binged the whole season yesterday, and I admit, I was in and out for some of it, so I must have missed it, but how did she come into possession of the photos? 

Clay had them in the back seat of his car and when he went to his car his back window was broken and the box was gone.

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I thought the season had some really strong moments, but I wasn't quite sure that season 2 needed to be as long as it was, especially by episode. I also don't think I'm looking forward to a season three, which will have to move on from Hannah for good. If the show gets renewed, they certainly planted some solid ideas, but I think I might skip. 

I'm impressed that they made sure the school shooting actually never happened. It was a clever twist, and probably the best idea. 

Nina having the pictures was a fine twist. Her burning them was just plain annoying. So, she took away everyone else's chances to be able to tell their story. Ok, then. It's one thing to burn her own; it's another to burn everyone else's. 

Tyler looks different with the haircut. Hopefully he can truly get some help.

I'm fully annoyed that there's a triangle with Alex, Jessica, and Justin, and I'm even more pissed off that they had Jessica cheat. She JUST started a relationship again with Alex. They JUST defined it, and she's going to cheat just like that? Not that it was surprising that her and Justin had unresolved issues that made it clear they'd hook up again, but they should have never had that prefaced with Alex/Jessica rekindling theirs. Also, Justin lying about being clean isn't going to go well. Of course that's going to complicate things with Jessica. 

On the other hand, as rushed as Justin's adoption is, I can see why it's happening so fast. But maybe they shouldn't rush into it. They could have left it open ended with the Jensens deciding to take Justin in for good, and if there's a season 3, it could have opened with the news about the adoption, if the show decided to skip ahead past summer, or at least into June or July. However, very happy for Justin, who has been looking for a home and a family that will love him for his entire life. I just think the two weeks that the season took place, plus the month time jump with Justin having been in juvie the entire time, makes it a little too quick to jump from the Jensens not knowing Justin to wanting to adopt him.

So, Chloe's pregnant. What an annoyingly bland and predictable twist. I can't say that I'm excited for it in any way. 

Overall, some stronger stories in season 2 (Alex's story, Jessica's story, Zach, Courtney's redemption episode, the second half in general was so much stronger than the first half), but pretty much what I predicted for the sophomore season. This show has the ability to be a multi-season show, but it hasn't been executed well enough, so I just grow more annoyed. 

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1 hour ago, MissMandy said:

Clay had them in the back seat of his car and when he went to his car his back window was broken and the box was gone.

OK, I do remember them getting stolen from Clay's car, I guess I was still in the mindset that Monty stole them. It didn't occur to me that Nina broke into Clay's car. I was thinking there was some action I missed. But I guess not. 

Edited by reggiejax
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What the everloving fuck. Basically nothing happened to any of the assholes in this show, and Tyler gets raped. I yelled out loud at that scene, it was horrible and unnecessary. Was that an "oh, boys get raped, too"? I don't even understand.

If there's a S3, I'm sure I'll watch it, but it'll probably be a hate watch. 

I feel ill.

I'll work through the fallout of this season by reading others' comments on this board because right now...ugh.

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Was it announced that 13RW was already renewed for a third season prior to this second season coming out? Because I feel like an idiot; I fully expected the show to have this season be its last season, and resolve everything. I'm pissed that they left loose endings to resolve in a third season, because I think a third season is unnecessary. 

Tyler looks sickly with a buzzcut. The bathroom scene was horrific.

I expected that one of the two trials (Hannah's parents v. the school and Jessica v. Bryce) would end up with "the good guys" winning, but I guess that would be unrealistic. I really hope that Bryce somehow gets what's coming for him in the third season.

What happened to Marcus? Last thing we heard was that he was suspended when he called out Bryce as a rapist.

Justin is on a dark path, AND Seth knows where he is. Scared for him.

Lastly and most importantly, how old are these kids? I'm very confused because Marcus got into Harvard, and Bryce said he had to repeat junior year. So they for sure are seniors, but the rest of the cast are juniors, right? Hannah was alive sophomore year, then season 1 is fall of junior year, and season 2 is spring of junior year? I'm just trying to sort out the timeline.

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Ryan mentioned he was taking a gap year and traveling around Europe, so he is graduating. Is Tony really just a junior, really? I think Courtney is also graduating.  

And where was Sheri this episode? She should have been at the dance. TBH, she is the only viable love interest for Clay, but he better start treating her better first. 

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37 minutes ago, Hope said:

Lastly and most importantly, how old are these kids? I'm very confused because Marcus got into Harvard, and Bryce said he had to repeat junior year. So they for sure are seniors, but the rest of the cast are juniors, right? Hannah was alive sophomore year, then season 1 is fall of junior year, and season 2 is spring of junior year? I'm just trying to sort out the timeline.

Well, some of them are seniors, while others are juniors. Marcus and Ryan are definitely seniors. They actually made the timeline fairly clear. Season 1 took place at the end of October through to the middle of November. Season 2 has technically only taken place over a span of two weeks, until this episode skipped a month ahead (hence the April 18-20 time period indicated...although they said April 20th was a Saturday when it was actually a Friday last month). Hannah died six months ago, in the middle of October, I believe. I think most of the kids are juniors. The only one I'm unsure about is Bryce. I get that he's transferring, but when he talks about being a junior, he means for the following school year, right? I always get confused with the American high school system because where I live in Ontario, we finished high school in June, but I know most American schools finish, I think, in May? 

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1 hour ago, mledawn said:

What the everloving fuck. Basically nothing happened to any of the assholes in this show, and Tyler gets raped. I yelled out loud at that scene, it was horrible and unnecessary. Was that an "oh, boys get raped, too"? I don't even understand.

If there's a S3, I'm sure I'll watch it, but it'll probably be a hate watch. 

I feel ill.

I'll work through the fallout of this season by reading others' comments on this board because right now...ugh.

I agree with you so much. Watching Tyler get assaulted by that group of assholes left me feeling sick to my stomach. Honestly, U was annoyed all season long by the core group ignoring Tyler and making him seem like a monster. He was definitely wrong for spying on Hannah and taking the photo of her and Courtney but all of then were jerks to her in one way or another and were no better than Tyler. The whole season it hurt me to see him being rejected and abused. Like, did these kids (and adults) learn nothing from what happened with Hannah??? Watching him use his newfound coping skills when confronted with the jocks in the washroom only to be brutally assaulted had me sobbing. I dont know if I will watch season 3, I get its realistic that the jocks and especially Bryce with his money and privilege would walk free but it got too depressing for me.

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1 hour ago, mrsh said:

I agree with you so much. Watching Tyler get assaulted by that group of assholes left me feeling sick to my stomach. Honestly, U was annoyed all season long by the core group ignoring Tyler and making him seem like a monster. He was definitely wrong for spying on Hannah and taking the photo of her and Courtney but all of then were jerks to her in one way or another and were no better than Tyler. The whole season it hurt me to see him being rejected and abused. Like, did these kids (and adults) learn nothing from what happened with Hannah??? Watching him use his newfound coping skills when confronted with the jocks in the washroom only to be brutally assaulted had me sobbing. I dont know if I will watch season 3, I get its realistic that the jocks and especially Bryce with his money and privilege would walk free but it got too depressing for me.

I totally agree! I hated how horrible the group treated Tyler. Did they learn nothing from Hannah? It was sad to watch them repeat the cycle. But sadly no matter how many kids commit suicide due to bullying it doesn’t stop,kids are always going to bully we can only change how we choose to help kids thru it & taking their feelings serious. 

The Tyler bathroom scene was hard to watch,it kinda came out of nowhere.  

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The most frustrating thing about season 2 was that the school didn't seem to be doing much to address the issue of bullying. I mean, there was basically a riot in the hallway-- and nobody gets suspended/expelled/detention? (the 'skills' class was basically a joke). Although I suppose you could argue that they couldn't seem to be changing too much-- because it would lend strength to the Baker's suit-- that their protocol - or lack thereof -- was at fault.

I was (sadly) not at all surprised to see that the show took the Brock Turner route with Bryce's trial--  a judge not wanting to ruin the life of a 'promising' young man. He lost his baseball scholarships and gets probation (the scholarships-- not much of a loss, as his folks can pay tuition anywhere).

Also -- maddingly realistic that Justin fared worse-- because he doesn't have family/money. I think that's why Clay's folks were so quick to adopt-- he was staying in the system unless someone claimed him, so they claimed him.

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There was the scene where Jessica did feel better for reporting the crime, regardless of the outcome. I think that is an important thing too. 

Sheri spent 5 months in juvie for hitting a stop sign and not reporting it. And Clay still treats her like crap, while is he now brothers with Justin. That is the injustice!

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I went into season 2 expecting to hatewatch it. This is the most furious I’ve ever been with a TV show.

 

Nina the rape victim burning those pictures and taking away the choice from other girls. Killing any potential cases that could have stemmed from the pictures.

Clay talking down a school shooter and then helping him escape. That message should never be sent.

Clay’s ignored hallucinations.

Clay’s problems with Hannah not being his image of her and how he applied that.

Chloe being pregnant with her rapist’s/boyfriend’s baby.

Showing that scene where Tyler got raped. Look, I was never going to forgive the character after the peeping tom stuff and the pictures but that didn’t need to be shown. 

The humanization of and attempts to gain sympathy for a school shooter.

Bryce getting off and Justin getting a worse sentence wasn’t unrealistic but I can’t say I wanted to see it or think it should have been the path they took because of the place the show has taken for some people.

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Season 2 has technically only taken place over a span of two weeks, until this episode skipped a month ahead (hence the April 18-20 time period indicated...although they said April 20th was a Saturday when it was actually a Friday last month). Hannah died six months ago, in the middle of October

I think what made the timeline unclear was adding on Bryce's trial. We only saw the end of it, as Bryce's "sentence" was being rendered. And I get that TV shows will condense timelines, but even by "TV time" Bryce's trial happened incredibly quickly. Not to mention they made it seem as if Justin was locked up for 6 months. Or maybe he was only given a 6 month sentence, I am not really clear on that. Nor am I clear on just what he was locked up for. It got confusing to say the least. 

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1 hour ago, reggiejax said:

I think what made the timeline unclear was adding on Bryce's trial. We only saw the end of it, as Bryce's "sentence" was being rendered. And I get that TV shows will condense timelines, but even by "TV time" Bryce's trial happened incredibly quickly. Not to mention they made it seem as if Justin was locked up for 6 months. Or maybe he was only given a 6 month sentence, I am not really clear on that. Nor am I clear on just what he was locked up for. It got confusing to say the least. 

I also got completely lost in the timeline with Bryce’s trial. From what Zach said at the wake, I think Justin got six months probation (for being an accessory to sexual assault), while Bryce got three. Justin wasn’t in jail for any more than a month tops and was only in that long because they couldn’t release him to a guardian. 

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On 5/19/2018 at 3:26 PM, Asha124 said:

Well, that happened. Don't really know how I feel about this season. That scene with Tyler and Montgomery was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen on TV. I feel like they did it only for the shock value.

Overall thoughts about the season:

The bad:

- Hannah as a ghost (I felt like she didn't add anything of value to the narrative. I get that they wanted to keep the actress but she was in all the flashbacks so I don't get why she needed to be a ghost as well)

- Justin's drug addiction

- Jessica cheating on Alex in the end

- Chloe and the pregnancy

- The Tyler thing

- Skye's and Clay's relationship. They just weren't believable. At all.

The good:

- I really liked Mr. Porter. His testimony made me tear up.

- Justin's and Clay's reluctant friendship (Justin lounging around Clay's house always eating something made me crak up every time)

- Zach's and Alex's friendship

- The group sticking together at the end

- Bryce's mom (she saw right throught him) and Clay's dad (one of the coolest dad on TV)

The things I don't understand:

- Why would anyone in their right mind send their kid to a school like Liberty High?

- Why would the Jensens adopt Justin? I get that they want to do something nice for him but why jump right to adoption? Why don't they try fostering first?

- Why did Nina burn the pictures?

- Where did Justin get the drugs? Didn't he just return from the juvie? And why was he arrested in the first place?

- Zach's and Hannah's relationship. Like where did that come from?

Disagree with the notion that the attack on Tyler was just for shock value.

It was a deliberate form of sexual assault on a male. One that happens more than reported. 

It also plays into this odd inner workings of homophobic people. Gang up on, assaulting, sexually assaulting a guy for being gay or doing it as a insult. Why are you so worried about that guy being gay? Why are you concerned with physically being all over them?

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18 hours ago, dlyn said:

I also got completely lost in the timeline with Bryce’s trial. From what Zach said at the wake, I think Justin got six months probation (for being an accessory to sexual assault), while Bryce got three. Justin wasn’t in jail for any more than a month tops and was only in that long because they couldn’t release him to a guardian. 

I don’t think Bryce had a trial; I think he accepted a plea deal which included him allocating his crime in court which we saw. Then Jessica gave her victim impact statement, and the judge rendered his sentence. That was the impression I got anyway. 

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I enjoyed it, though I don't think that's the right word. It's full of terrible stuff and no one bad seems to be punished. 

 

It was summed up to me with Bryce leaning against the bar at the school dance just openly chugging from a flask like no care in the world. 

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On 21/05/2018 at 1:16 PM, Lady Calypso said:

 The only one I'm unsure about is Bryce. I get that he's transferring, but when he talks about being a junior, he means for the following school year, right? I always get confused with the American high school system because where I live in Ontario, we finished high school in June, but I know most American schools finish, I think, in May? 

Bryce was a senior when Hannah went to Mr Porter tell him about the rape he told her to deal with it and that he a senior and be gone in a couple of months 

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5 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Disagree with the notion that the attack on Tyler was just for shock value.

It was a deliberate form of sexual assault on a male. One that happens more than reported. 

It also plays into this odd inner workings of homophobic people. Gang up on, assaulting, sexually assaulting a guy for being gay or doing it as a insult. Why are you so worried about that guy being gay? Why are you concerned with physically being all over them?

 

I can get wanting to bring attention to that. The way they showed it was just shock value and it didn’t need to be so graphic. Purely for shock value? Maybe not. Purely to raise awareness and start a discussion? Definitely not.

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I don't know how the scene could not be shown without it ever being accused of what it is being accused of. I can't see it working at all if Tyler talks about it after the fact, with none of it shown. I think that is probably the main reason why I cam glad Tyler did not shoot up the school--it allows the writers to explore his assault. 

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4 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I don't know how the scene could not be shown without it ever being accused of what it is being accused of. I can't see it working at all if Tyler talks about it after the fact, with none of it shown. I think that is probably the main reason why I cam glad Tyler did not shoot up the school--it allows the writers to explore his assault. 

Whether it's rape or the suicide, any depiction of the violent and troubling acts in the series will seen as too far by some people. 

But, I think you can only do so much when you keep telling and not showing. The impact won't be the same for everyone but it won't hit as hard without the visual for many. 

I get how hard it would be for some people and just salacious for others but I do think there is a in between. The scene is meant to jolt you. Feel like it comes out nowhere. Not all violence is predetermined. Tons of buildup or a solid motivation. I don't even think Montgomery thought any of that out. He called him a homophobic slur and the thought probably popped in just then.

These violent acts on men by men are happening. It wasn't pulled out of thin air for the show. I think it deserves to be explored. The scene may come off one way but I think the actions of the crew were a lot more thought out than just pure shock value.

We keep seeing young men being physically assaulted on this series. Sadly, what happened to Tyler is one way that it escalates.

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So while I have a lot of thoughts I just want to say, was anybody else missing Sheri in the last few episodes?? I was disappointed we didn’t see her rallying around Jessica and Clay with the others. Seems like she definitely would’ve been involved considering she played a role in helping Justin and trying to take down Bryce. Not to mention she was friends (or at least teammates) with Jessica!

 

Marcus was also missing but was not missed.

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Everything seemed to have gotten better for Tyler at the beginning of the season, when at least he had Alex's friendship, and it was disgusting to watch the group shut him out again, as if he was worse even then Bryce (who Zack in particular handled with kid gloves while he violently repelled Tyler.)  And of course Tyler with being sent to a 'therapy' bootcamp and Justin spending one  month in lockup (where of course he wouldn't have been able to magically kick his drug addiction) got worse punishment then Bryce did.  That scene was graphic, but they showed Hannah and Jess being raped as well, so I don't see why it should be kept out of view.  

In one of the widely publicized cases where jocks raped a boy with a broomstick in a school locker-room a few years ago there was justice, so I hope Tyler's attackers will also be punished/exposed somehow?  This fucking school still did nothing about implementing a real anti-bullying program or doing anything to protect Tyler when he returned; and naturally when he went through that extremely traumatic assault he wasn't going to suddenly be able to reach out after not doing so after any of the previous incidents.   It was maddening how many physical assaults kept happening throughout this season and none of them ever reported. If Tyler is taken in and examined at a hospital, they could at least record the internal/external damage to show how badly he was physically and sexually assaulted; his injuries probably won't just heal on their own.  I hope he won't an get an 'American Crime S2' sort of ending...I was wishing that Clay would at least fling the gun into the bushes before the police get there.  Did that shot of Clay looking into the barrel of the gun imply it wasn't loaded? 

I really didn't like Hannah returning as a ghost or whatever, but it bothered me less when it was more clearly established as a figment of Clay's internal torture.   Nina burning the entire box of pictures was really messed up, and obstructs getting justice for the other girls.  This was a really compelling second season, I did love Alex's storyline, and Justin's half-happy ending (minus the heroin and the random J/J hookup) warmed my heart.  Hannhah/Zack was a pretty obvious retcon, but it wasn't so bad.  I'm in for S3

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While I fully support Jessica reading her victim impact statement, the sad thing is that it probably just gave Bryce more masturbation material.

I almost guffawed when Bryce's lawyer lamented that the school canceled what might have been a championship season for the baseball team. BOO HOO!

I HATE that all Bryce got was a few months of probation. On one hand, I think that the show is being realistic in showing that men get away with a slap on the wrist for sexual assault ALL THE TIME. On the other hand, I'm afraid it will make girls who watch this show even more afraid to report when it happens to them because they will think there's no point in going through with a trial where you are slut shamed and humiliated just to have the perpetrator get essentially no punishment (see also: Brock Turner). No surprise that the actual convicted rapist only got three months of probation but somehow Justin got six months.

Nitpick: the funeral supposedly took place on Friday, April 19, but that doesn't happen until 2019. According to Porter's testimony, Hannah came to see him on October 9, 2017, so the funeral should take place in April 2018. April 19 was a Thursday in 2018.

Clay's face as he watched Hannah walk out of the church was heartbreaking. I'm not a religious person but the priest they had was pretty great with both Olivia and Clay. If more religions and clergy were less judgmental and open, more people might go to church. I mean, I probably still wouldn't because I like to sleep in on Sundays, but still.

So cute to see Zach hug Justin at the coffee shop. Even more adorable was watching Zach teach Alex how to slow dance with Jess.

I loved seeing Ryan tell Olivia about his travel plans. I know Andy is probably less than thrilled that she's got yet another high school friend, but whatever. If Ryan is encouraging her to go travel then he seems like a good friend for her to have. And hey, you don't share your murder board with just anyone.

OMG, Clay asking Justin if he wanted to be adopted was so sweet. I don't know how all of this works, but couldn't they just take him in as a foster kid first? I mean, I'm all for Justin legally becoming a part of their family, but part of me wondered why they didn't see if he would prefer other options. His mom clearly has no interest in taking responsibility for him so he might as well live with a family that actually gives a shit about him.

At the beginning of the episode, I couldn't tell if Tyler was actually better after the program he completed or if he was just faking it so he could come back at school and get revenge, but he seemed genuine when he apologized to Monty. Any progress he might have made was destroyed by fucking Monty. I was afraid that he had killed him because he cracked his had so hard into the sink. As if he thinks that is going to get him back into Bryce's good graces.

Hahahaha, Clay trying to teach Justin how to tie his tie was hilarious. I love that Justin doesn't take Clay's uptight attitude too seriously and he's able to laugh it off. But poor Justin - it's hard to lose a friend like Bryce who's known you for most of your life.

I know a school dance is cliche, but I love that it showed that these are still high school students who are capable of having moments of joy, however brief. I'm glad to see that Clay is still friends with Cyrus and his group.

The group hug at the dance was even more tear inducing than Hannah's memorial service. Grief is like that though - one minute you're laughing and the next minute something reminds you of what you've lost and all the happiness drains right out of you and the pain and sadness come rushing back. I loved that as soon as the song started, Tony knew and ran off to find Clay. I'm sure that on paper, that brief scene was very simple but it was so effective and touching in its execution. I liked that Cyrus and his friends were just in the background to be supportive of Clay but that they knew not to be part of the group hug.

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Parminder Nagra!

Seeing all the women talk about the ways they had been sexually assaulted reminded me of the victim impact statements at Larry Nassar's sentencing. It was a good reminder of what Olivia said in the previous episode about how she didn't know a single woman who hadn't dealt with sexual assault or abuse. It's so pervasive that it's almost commonplace.

On 5/20/2018 at 7:30 PM, Hope said:

Lastly and most importantly, how old are these kids? I'm very confused because Marcus got into Harvard, and Bryce said he had to repeat junior year. So they for sure are seniors, but the rest of the cast are juniors, right? Hannah was alive sophomore year, then season 1 is fall of junior year, and season 2 is spring of junior year? I'm just trying to sort out the timeline.

S1 began in October 2017 and S2 took place in March/April 2018, but there were also flashbacks to the previous school year. The party Kat threw at Hannah's old house took place just before the school year started in 2016 (August or September, depending on the school district). The summer that Clay was visiting his grandparents while Hannah and Zach were together was in between those two school years (summer 2017).

I think most of the main characters are now juniors, but a few of them are seniors. Marcus got his college acceptance letter, Ryan is taking a gap year, and Bryce lost his scholarship offers so they were all seniors. Back in S1 I thought that Courtney was a senior too but I can't remember why.

This was Bryce's senior year but he said that because not all of his classes transferred to Hillcrest, he's going to be a junior there. I'm assuming that means he is transferring to Hillcrest before the school year ends (on the show, it's now April) and that he will be a senior in the fall because there is no way in hell that a high school senior would be put back two years for transferring. Bryce is an ass but he's not a moron so it's not like he's been taking a bunch of random esoteric electives. In the state of California there are mandatory statewide graduation requirements (3 years of English, 2 years of math, 2 years of science, 1 year of foreign language or visual/performing arts, 3 years of social studies aka history, geography, civics, economics, 2 years of PE). Since he was college bound, he must have been taking at least the bare minimum of academic work required for CSU/UC acceptance (4 years of English, 3 years of math, 2 years of science, 3 years of social science, 2 years of foreign language, 1 year of visual/performing arts). I could see being a few credits short of graduating, but to be put back two full years seems unlikely.

This makes me wonder if they're going to have the next season take place during fall of the following school year. If so, then this was a way for them to keep Bryce around for another season. But I feel like they might as well have the next season happen in May/June of 2018 so that they can deal with the immediate aftermath of Tyler almost shooting people at the dance. My guess is they didn't want to have too much of the show take place during the summer because then we lose the school setting, which is where everyone is forced to interact on a daily basis. But if they would have S3 take place during May/June and then the very beginning of summer vacation, they wouldn't have to worry about who's graduating.

On 5/22/2018 at 1:33 PM, amazinglybored said:

I can get wanting to bring attention to that. The way they showed it was just shock value and it didn’t need to be so graphic. Purely for shock value? Maybe not. Purely to raise awareness and start a discussion? Definitely not.

Is there a way to depict rape without being graphic and shocking? I don't think there is, but I also don't think a show that features rape so heavily in the storylines should try to make it look non-graphic and non-shocking. The baseball team at my friend's high school (which was 6 miles/10 minutes from mine) got in huge trouble because they were raping boys with broomsticks. It happens.

And why is seeing Tyler's attack more graphic and shocking than Hannah's?

On 5/22/2018 at 8:20 PM, Craphole Island said:

Marcus was also missing but was not missed.

Ha, this was the perfect way to put it!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo · Reason: Typo
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13 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Whether it's rape or the suicide, any depiction of the violent and troubling acts in the series will seen as too far by some people. 

But, I think you can only do so much when you keep telling and not showing. The impact won't be the same for everyone but it won't hit as hard without the visual for many. 

I get how hard it would be for some people and just salacious for others but I do think there is a in between. The scene is meant to jolt you. Feel like it comes out nowhere. Not all violence is predetermined. Tons of buildup or a solid motivation. I don't even think Montgomery thought any of that out. He called him a homophobic slur and the thought probably popped in just then.

These violent acts on men by men are happening. It wasn't pulled out of thin air for the show. I think it deserves to be explored. The scene may come off one way but I think the actions of the crew were a lot more thought out than just pure shock value.

We keep seeing young men being physically assaulted on this series. Sadly, what happened to Tyler is one way that it escalates.

I fully agree with you. I keep hearing people talking about boycotting because the bathroom rape scene was "too far." It's not too far when we have a show about young women repeatedly getting raped and assaulted and harassed, but it's too far when it happens to a young man? The show is about a rape. We didn't shy away from it when it was Jessica or Chloe or Hannah and we had to see Bryce's naked butt, but a violent attack that shows even less is too far? Was it too far because he was also beaten, or because it was a man-on-man sexual assault?

This is a difficult show about difficult topics. I've felt sick since I started watching it last week and having to come to terms with some of the things in my own past, and I doubt I'll be rewatching. Is it "too far" to show bullying, suicide, rape, substance abuse, assault, school shootings, etc., when these are things teens deal with in everyday life? Sure, it's hard to watch, but it's even harder to experience. This show has never been about sugar-coating these issues. If it's too far that is simply because it is the theme of the show. If people want it glossed over, they can watch Saved By The Bell. 

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I rewatched this episode mainly because I kept dozing off when I watched it the first time. Now that I’ve seen all of the episode this time, I stand by my original post:

 

On 5/22/2018 at 2:06 AM, Last Time Lord said:

I would just like to say I adored the scene where Olivia showed Clay the list of Hannah’s reasons why not. If anything sums up the show and it’s meaning, it should forever be that scene and Olivia’s line “No matter how many reasons why, there’s always more reasons why not”

About the Tyler scene. I’m frankly a little mad about the negative reaction. Tyler is the fifth character on this show to be a victim of sexual assault, and what gets me is I cannot remember there being anywhere close to this much outrage when it happened to Jessica and Hannah in season one, nor with the fact that Chloe has chosen to stick with her rapist and lied on the stand to protect him  

I really hope Tyler gets taken to a hospital and treated for all of his injuries. 

I’m curious what the text he sent Mack actually said, since they didn’t show it. Maybe a warning for her and Cyrus to leave the dance. 

My pet theory is the guns he had weren’t loaded, and was going there to commit suicide by cop.

Has the show been renewed for a third season? I want to see how they go on from here.  

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3 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

My pet theory is the guns he had weren’t loaded, and was going there to commit suicide by cop.

They showed ammo and pipe bombs.  I actually thought the end result was going to be suicide by cop, and I'm glad they didn't go that route.

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7 minutes ago, starri said:

They showed ammo and pipe bombs.  I actually thought the end result was going to be suicide by cop, and I'm glad they didn't go that route.

I remember seeing those in the open chest as he was packing his backpack, but not being grabbed by him. I may be wrong, however. 

I’m glad they didn’t go that route, either. 

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I guess if nothing else, Christian Navarro did spend the season looking somewhat less terrified that he'd catch Gay from Tommy Dorfman or RJ Brown.

Between a character named "Montgomery" and a second named "Scott" and the fact that both halves of Star Trek: Discovery's gay couple appeared before the season's end, they had to be doing that on purpose, right?  My headcanon is now that the minister and Dennis are a couple.

It was nice that Lainie had quit her corporate job to work with Dennis on stuff that doesn't make her skin crawl, but that seems like something she'd tell Clay about beforehand.

The scene of the Justice League wrapping Clay in a hug circle as he broke down was enough to make me forgive a lot of sins.

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2 hours ago, starri said:

The scene of the Justice League wrapping Clay in a hug circle as he broke down was enough to make me forgive a lot of sins.

Yes! And I love referring to them as the Justice League, even if they are more of Well At Least We Tried To Get Justice League. I thought it was enough when Tony heard the song and took off for Clay, but seeing them all surround him with the group hug dance was such a thing I didn't know I needed. I loved the scenes at the dance. I loved the weird friendships that have formed out of this tragedy and I love that they all actually went to the dance and hung out. I loved the juxtaposition of Bryce calling Justin "brother" immediately followed by Clay walking up to him to check on him. I love that they want to adopt Justin and that Justin wants to be adopted. I loved when Clay's mom said they would get Justin out and he didn't even look worried as he sincerely said "I know. Thank you." I love that Clay paid it forward from when he had the gun and was ready to die/kill and Justin stopped him. It was a heroic moment for him amidst some dumbass choices, especially when he sent Justin and Jessica back in, and I love giving these characters those moments of selflessness.

I do not love Jessica hooking up with Justin when she's on a date with Alex. I do not love that Chloe's pregnant. I do not love Justin doing heroin. I  do not love Nina burning the pics, although I had her in 2nd place on my list of people who'd stolen them. I do not love the cliffhanger of Clay standing there holding the gun outside the high school.

I'm glad they were able to stop Tyler and I want Tony to drive him to a hospital and get him some help. It's especially sad because he really seemed to mean the stuff he said about learning in that diversionary program and wanting to do better. I want him to be able to move forward. There really did seem to be just a major pattern of hope versus setbacks the last couple episodes.

Edited by bettername2come · Reason: redundancy is redundant
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It was hard to reconcile the Zach/Hannah summer fling with his tape...I find it very hard to believe or understand that what he did would still weigh on her after they semidated for a few months and she lost her virginity to him. They never talked about it or acknowledged it during all their intimate talks? How could they not have worked that out? I get that his actions were a single domino in the chain reaction that lead to her death and her feelings of isolation but she seemed to believe he didn't care about her and threw away the letter...and I just can't believe that at all.

Ugh, that Jessica/Justin hook up was so annoying. Why, show, why?

For a moment I believed Monty was the one who was providing the polaroids but wow did that turn out not to be true. What a vile human being.

That principal is the worst. What the fuck...And how are half the kids at this school showing up with bruised faces to the next period and nobody asks any questions?

It's a strange thing to say and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but well this is only fiction...hopefully Bryce can't help himself at his next school and the girl comes forward. His second conviction could get him some actual time. It'll show that even if it seems like the guy got off scot free, coming forward can make a difference.

And maybe I'm an horrible horrible person, but part of me actually wanted Tyler to go in there and shoot some of those assholes. And that's where the show went wrong imo because I shouldn't have felt that way even for a second about a mass shooter going into a school.

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These past 2 episodes pissed me off to my core. I feel like they just screwed us over and left me with no reason to even care or continue with the show if it should get a third season. 

Bryce gets off the hook scotch free, Tyler comes back only to get beat and raped in the bathroom, Jessica/Justin hook up, Justin is back on drugs, all the photos are burned....why is all this bad stuff still happening? Where are any of the happy endings? 

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3 hours ago, CloudySky said:

And maybe I'm an horrible horrible person, but part of me actually wanted Tyler to go in there and shoot some of those assholes. And that's where the show went wrong imo because I shouldn't have felt that way even for a second about a mass shooter going into a school.

Save me a spot in the handbasket, then, because my immediate reaction was "yeah, Tyler, get 'em!" and then I clapped my hands over my mouth and realized what I'd just said.


Glad the crisis was averted, but it would've been too predictable (just like the trial outcome) for a school shooting at prom to happen.

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9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Bryce gets off the hook scotch free, Tyler comes back only to get beat and raped in the bathroom, Jessica/Justin hook up, Justin is back on drugs, all the photos are burned....why is all this bad stuff still happening? Where are any of the happy endings? 

I think these things are because the show is more concerned with being realistic than with giving the audience happy endings. It’s realistic that a heroin addict would relapse. It’s realistic that a teenage girl who has admitted she still loves her ex would hook up with him in a moment of weakness. It’s realistic that a rich white athlete rapist would get a very light sentence. It’s realistic that a kid who’s been repeatedly bullied, beaten, and let down by the system would be raped and then become despondent enough to do something desperate and violent like taking guns to a school event. It is horrible that these things happen but it’s realistic because they actually happen all too often. 

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo · Reason: Typo
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