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OnceSane

S02.E01: The First Polaroid

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Five months after Hannah’s death, the case against liberty goes to trial, with Tyler as the first witness. Clay finds a troubling photo in his locker.

 

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Guess being in Nz has its benefits. Get to watch first as you guys sleep. I must say I’m not a fan of clay x skye. Plus I guess Clay’s bump to the head has allowed him to see dead people. Either that or he has a brain tumour. 

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36 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

When did it go up? I looked yesterday. I guess I'm in for the weekend;)

Right at midnight.  That's the time all Netflix shows drop/become available on their premiere date.

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1 minute ago, OnceSane said:

Right at midnight.  That's the time all Netflix shows drop/become available on their premiere date.

Thank you! Maybe it's a good thing I didn't start at midnight. I'd still be up!

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I agree, Alex' scenes were fantastic but the first episode seemed off. I hate Skye with Clay so pairing her up with Clay and them making out all the time doesn't feel right. Especially when I see Hannah's face. I've found Clay's behaviour to be odd, yet again he slows everything, never admits, he was one of the weakest part of the episode. This show still is so true to life, I can totally relate but most of the time I felt nothing, it didn't really captivate me.

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Alex's scenes were definitely the best, and I am really glad he survived. So Liberty High decided to just not talk about anything to do with suicide? No wonder they're being sued. 

I dont really like Sky, so her and Clay being all kissy wasn't my favorite. At all. I would have rather checked in on everyone else. 

The weird but poetic threats people are getting makes me feel like I turned on Pretty Little Liars, but with less camp and more sadness. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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The teens are all falling right back into the traps of not telling their parents/trusted adults. I’m going to be ticked if we dont see one helpful adult or teacher someone goes to for help. Say something someone!

What was with the counselor choking Bryce? The counselor has completely flipped script. Walking the halls, talking to students, at least he’s finally doing something he’s supposed to. But where are the teachers??

Alex and Jessica were my favorite parts. I wish she had told Bryce to fuck-off though.  Also really like that Zach is making an effort to be better. I get his teen mind, being torn between doing the right thing and flying under the radar with Bryce. Protect himself, keep an eye on Jessica and Alex, while keeing Bryce off his back.

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1 hour ago, tabularasa said:

 I've found Clay's behaviour to be odd

I feel like he's erratic because he's been a mess of emotions ever since Hannah's suicide/listening to the tapes.

I really like the Tyler/Alex and Alex/Jessica/Zach friendships

Also, what was the second note that Tony was burning?

Edited by Hope
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58 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

What was with the counselor choking Bryce? The counselor has completely flipped script. Walking the halls, talking to students, at least he’s finally doing something he’s supposed to. But where are the teachers??

So far my favorite part of the episode was the counselor.

 

I agree with hideousness of the wig!

 

 

1 hour ago, Hope said:

Also, what was the second note that Tony was burning?

 

I believe it was a detailed journal entry of the last day Hannah was alive.

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Clay: I love how Wal-Plex locks up the spray paint, but not the ammunition. 

Oooh, boy, did that set off my foreshadowing alarm. 

Very strong opening episode to the season. It’s been so long since I watched the first season and read the book that I’m having some issues remembering who all the characters are.

I thought Alex of one of the more sympathetic characters in season one, so I’m glad he got a lot of focus in this episode. 

Tyler brought Alex the product placement. Truly the mark of a great friend. 

Bryce’s first scene was him injecting a teammate with Steroids couldn’t have been more Bryce if they tried. 

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I was so excited about S2 beginning but as soon as the recap began, I remembered how stressful and difficult this show can be to watch. I'm still glad that the show is on though because these are issues that should be discussed.

One thing I really liked was that Clay, Tyler, and Alex all WANTED to testify. They asked things like "Do you think they'll let me testify? Will I get to testify?"

Ricky Vasquez - yay!

I know the defense lawyer is just doing her job but ugh, I just can't with her trying to equate Hannah voluntarily letting Tyler take pictures of her in a public place with an upskirt photo being sent to everyone at school or Tyler skulking in the bushes taking pictures outside her bedroom window.

Part of me had to laugh every time one of the kids approached Clay to ask why the case wasn't being settled or out of court or why they were being called to testify. Uh, Clay isn't a lawyer. His mom isn't even on the case anymore. He knows as much (or possibly less) than you do.

But then Clay turned around and demanded to know who Hannah was sexting with (and really, is a selfie with a halfway unbuttoned blouse from your movie theater uniform really sexting? She was more covered up than she would have been at the beach in a bathing suit). I guess Clay thinks that Tyler not only had a telephoto lens but the ability to see through solid objects like Hannah's phone.

Some of the divisions have been no surprise, but I liked seeing some of the alliances like Ryan giving Tony what Hannah had written, Tyler bringing junk food to Alex, and Zach insisting on carrying Alex's backpack his first day back at school.

When Chloe said said she wanted Jessica to be a flyer, I was afraid she was just setting her up to get dropped and injured, or possibly distract her so that Bryce could throw a baseball at her. I became even more suspicious when I saw Chloe kissing Bryce after practice. Jessica, girl, you in danger. The countdown clock to being deliberately dropped has begun. Now the only question is if she will break an arm, a leg, get a concussion, etc.

I can't blame Zach for doing what most of the other kids are doing in their own way, which is towing the line. Regardless of what their agendas are, right now they know better than to be outwardly aggressive at school (although Bryce, who was bold enough to try to pretend everything was fine with Jessica, was dumb to get in Tyler's face in the hallway). That's why it kind of cracked me up that both Zach and Clay were like WHOA WHOA WHOA PUT THAT AWAY when Alex pulled out his suicide note at school. I loved Alex's response though - the school can't suspend him for talking about himself. But I definitely get Zach's strategy - he is not being antagonistic towards Bryce because they're on the baseball team together so he needs to keep the peace on the field and doing so also enables him to kind of keep the others under his protection. Maybe it's not the bravest or most antagonistic choice he could make, but I think he's doing what he thinks is best. Like everyone else, he's figuring out how to cope with the aftermath of the tapes and Hannah's death. I appreciate that he's really making a very public effort with Alex.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was so excited about S2 beginning but as soon as the recap began, I remembered how stressful and difficult this show can be to watch. I'm still glad that the show is on though because these are issues that should be discussed.

One thing I really liked was that Clay, Tyler, and Alex all WANTED to testify. They asked things like "Do you think they'll let me testify? Will I get to testify?"

Ricky Vasquez - yay!

I know the defense lawyer is just doing her job but ugh, I just can't with her trying to equate Hannah voluntarily letting Tyler take pictures of her in a public place with an upskirt photo being sent to everyone at school or Tyler skulking in the bushes taking pictures outside her bedroom window.

Part of me had to laugh every time one of the kids approached Clay to ask why the case wasn't being settled or out of court or why they were being called to testify. Uh, Clay isn't a lawyer. His mom isn't even on the case anymore. He knows as much (or possibly less) than you do.

But then Clay turned around and demanded to know who Hannah was sexting with (and really, is a selfie with a halfway unbuttoned blouse from your movie theater uniform really sexting? She was more covered up than she would have been at the beach in a bathing suit). I guess Clay thinks that Tyler not only had a telephoto lens but the ability to see through solid objects like Hannah's phone.

Some of the divisions have been no surprise, but I liked seeing some of the alliances like Ryan giving Tony what Hannah had written, Tyler bringing junk food to Alex, and Zach insisting on carrying Alex's backpack his first day back at school.

When Chloe said said she wanted Jessica to be a flyer, I was afraid she was just setting her up to get dropped and injured, or possibly distract her so that Bryce could throw a baseball at her. I became even more suspicious when I saw Chloe kissing Bryce after practice. Jessica, girl, you in danger. The countdown clock to being deliberately dropped has begun. Now the only question is if she will break an arm, a leg, get a concussion, etc.

I can't blame Zach for doing what most of the other kids are doing in their own way, which is towing the line. Regardless of what their agendas are, right now they know better than to be outwardly aggressive at school (although Bryce, who was bold enough to try to pretend everything was fine with Jessica, was dumb to get in Tyler's face in the hallway). That's why it kind of cracked me up that both Zach and Clay were like WHOA WHOA WHOA PUT THAT AWAY when Alex pulled out his suicide note at school. I loved Alex's response though - the school can't suspend him for talking about himself. But I definitely get Zach's strategy - he is not being antagonistic towards Bryce because they're on the baseball team together so he needs to keep the peace on the field and doing so also enables him to kind of keep the others under his protection. Maybe it's not the bravest or most antagonistic choice he could make, but I think he's doing what he thinks is best. Like everyone else, he's figuring out how to cope with the aftermath of the tapes and Hannah's death. I appreciate that he's really making a very public effort with Alex.

This reminds me. A school banning all discussion about suicide after a girl succeeded in it and a boy attempted it in such a short time frame seems like a really boneheaded decision. 

That seems like something the prosecution would be all over. 

But... I have a sinking suspicion that this trial is going to be like the one from the UK Show Broadchurch’s second season, where joy, happiness, and every possible thing that may be considered justice goes to die, and everyone who has even the slightest bit of knowledge about law and how a trials work will have an aneurysm screaming about how everyone involved would be disbarred so fast. 

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32 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

I have a sinking suspicion that this trial is going to be like the one from the UK Show Broadchurch’s second season, where joy, happiness, and every possible thing that may be considered justice goes to die, and everyone who has even the slightest bit of knowledge about law and how a trials work will have an aneurysm screaming about how everyone involved would be disbarred so fast. 

At some point after S1 of this show ended, I was thinking about what S2 would be like and near the top of my list was "please don't make this like S2 of Broadchurch with a major focus on the trial and the sad excuse for the justice system" because the trial took up way too much time and was depressing as hell. I'm glad that it seems like rather than just having the witnesses sit in court and talk (like they do on The Good Wife), they're doing flashbacks.

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15 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

At some point after S1 of this show ended, I was thinking about what S2 would be like and near the top of my list was "please don't make this like S2 of Broadchurch with a major focus on the trial and the sad excuse for the justice system" because the trial took up way too much time and was depressing as hell. I'm glad that it seems like rather than just having the witnesses sit in court and talk (like they do on The Good Wife), they're doing flashbacks.

I do like that Tyler’s testimony was being used the same way Hannah’s tape narration was used in season one. Gives thoughts of the individual character, and drives the themes of the episode when what they say is paired to the actions we see.  

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So, I haven't been truly excited about season 2. No matter the flaws of season 1, I thought they did a decent job with telling the story. I questioned why they needed a season 2 in the first place. So far, they're doing an ok job, but I'm still questioning if this season is really necessary. 

Alex has been one of my favourites, and he got some really good material in this premiere. I like how bold he was in wanting to talk about his suicide attempt and how everyone was more willing to avoid the subject. I can see the avoidance not going well later on. I think the banning of all suicide discussion is going to blow up in the school's face. Avoiding the topic isn't keeping it under control, and it isn't going to go away. It is funny to see Alex so casual about wanting to show his suicide note to people, mostly to make sense of it himself so he can remember what happened the month up until his attempt, but nobody wanting to talk to him. 

The trial stuff is likely going to get on my nerves, mostly because of the defense lawyer. She's doing her job, but it doesn't mean it won't piss me right off. Tyler's testimony seemed to be well done. I don't know how convincing he was, but I thought his narrative throughout was nice. 

Clay's a very frustrating character. No doubt he has some form of his own trauma with Hannah's death and it's finally caught up to him. His avoidance of Hannah through Skye is not very subtle, and him seeing her now is a clear cause of her trial. He definitely needs some help.

Also, did Tyler really see Hannah sexting? Or was there something more? It seemed like a mostly innocent photo. Sure, she took a picture of her...bra, I guess, but not really sexting. 

I do feel bad for Jessica. Now she has to deal with Bryce, after the knowledge of her rape, and she has to deal with all those people at school. I'm guessing new mean girl Chloe was the one to put that blow-up doll outside of Jessica's front door, and I'm guessing she's going to cause even more problems. 

Mr. Porter is odd. I'm not really sure I'm fond of his methods. Sure, good for him on being affected by the tapes and actually doing something, but threatening a teenager? He's going to slip up somehow and get himself arrested. 

Zach is a character who I am really fascinated with. You can tell he wants to do the right thing, but he also wants to be a peacemaker but also be somewhat of a coward. He has a good heart; he just doesn't know what to do with it, exactly. 

Overall, not the worst premiere. I'm not sure it got me roped into the season in general, though I am interested in Alex's story, in what else Tony knows about Hannah, and Jessica's story as well. Everyone else's story? Eh, I could take or leave most of them. 

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I missed these characters. 

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

Even when he's standing up for Hannah and being decent, Tyler is still a little weird. Tyler, you got mad at Hannah for sexting another dude? Because, according to you, said dude "didn't really know or deserve her?" It's not your place, dude. You don't own her, she's not your girlfriend, you have no right to be so possessive with her. Also, his taking pictures of Alex while the latter was in a coma? Totally creepy. I mean, WTF, Tyler?

Zach remains sweet and adorable, and I foresee a reckoning between him and Bryce happening sometime this season. 

Mr. Porter is... odd. Dude, you didn't report crucial information about the rape of a student, and now you're trying to "make up for it" by physically attacking another student? But seriously, I'm sure we'd all love to beat up Bryce, but to do that as a school guidance counselor is... both bizarre and idiotic. There are a hundred thousand different ways Mr. Porter could attempt to atone for his mistakes, including admitting his mistakes and getting involved in the lawsuit. 

So now Tony has a secret? Hmmm. Not sure I feel about that. Last year he often ended up serving his narrative function (keeper of the tapes) rather than being developed as a fully realized character, and it seems that this season, they might be going that route again.  

Overall, a highly flawed but engaging episode. I rather strongly dislike using the testimonies as a framing device; they are just trying too hard to emulate the first season, and it just doesn't work her. Still, I think I'm in for the season. This show is addictive. 

Edited by Hazel55
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Who was in the picture that Clay had? I couldn't see it clearly enough to tell what/who it was.

Line of the episode:

Clay to Tony: You did nothing wrong.

Tony to Clay: You don't know everything I did, Clay.

Porter was such a deer-in-the-headlights, no clue, milquetoast, incompetent dud in season one.. Shocked to see him show emotion and go after Bryce. He's losing it.

Edited by BigDfromLA
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4 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

I feel like his heart was in the right place at the end of last season when he made a decision to strike up his friendship with Skye again, but seeing what a mess they both are makes it seem like they should have just stayed friends instead of dating. Even before you take into account that they're dating, they each need counseling. But when you throw their romantic entanglement into the mix and you see that Clay is using Skye as some kind of substitute for Hannah (a damaged girl who needs saving), and that neither of them seems to have any other kind of real emotional support system, it makes their relationship seem like a terrible idea. Like no one could realistically believe that this will end with a happily ever after.

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My god, this show does not need to be 13 hour long episodes. Even getting through this first episode is too much,

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I really liked season 1, but after watching S2 E1, Idk. I felt like the magic was missing. I might watch another ep to see if it improves for me. 

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The whole courtroom testimony that Hannah was sexting annoyed the shit out of me. I was waiting for the prosecutors to say "objection, that's speculation" but no. The kid saw her take a cleavage selfie. He has no clue if she actually took it, let alone if she sent it to anyone, let alone if she sent it to a guy, let alone the fact that he acted like Hannah was cheating on him by doing it even though *they never dated ever.*

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6 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

The kid saw her take a cleavage selfie. He has no clue if she actually took it, let alone if she sent it to anyone, let alone if she sent it to a guy, let alone the fact that he acted like Hannah was cheating on him by doing it even though *they never dated ever.*

ITA - and for all he knows she took a selfie and deleted it or she was just using the front facing camera to look at herself (because haven’t we all used the fromt camera for non-selfie reasons at least once or twice?). He couldn’t even see her screen so for all he knows, she just unbuttoned her shirt while she was checking her text messages or reading something online. I will admit that sometimes I’m looking at stuff on my phone when I get undressed after work but that doesn’t mean I’m sexting. 

Unless they subpoena her phone records and show me a photo that’s date stamped with the time that Tyler was lurking outside her window AND a text that she sent to someone at the same time, then whatever. I mean, yes, it’s totally possible that she sent a picture of herself with her work shirt unbuttoned but Tyler can’t know that for sure, and Ricky Vasquez should have objected! 

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On 5/20/2018 at 1:19 AM, Hazel55 said:

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

Even when he's standing up for Hannah and being decent, Tyler is still a little weird. Tyler, you got mad at Hannah for sexting another dude? Because, according to you, said dude "didn't really know or deserve her?" It's not your place, dude. You don't own her, she's not your girlfriend, you have no right to be so possessive with her. Also, his taking pictures of Alex while the latter was in a coma? Totally creepy. I mean, WTF, Tyler?

YES. Clay, Skye is not your Hannah-lives-this-time chance. It's entirely commendable that you want to help her and that you've obviously researched self harm and ways to help treat but you're just a few months removed from a severe trauma yourself. I agree, this screams codependency.

Tyler is gross. It sucks he was bullied, and he does get my sympathy for that but his obsession with Hannah is disturbing. His trying to excuse his covert photography pf her by saying "I was trying to process what I was seeing"--GROSS. Dude, no, you weren't. You were being a creeper. I just detest Nice Guys.

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Does Skye somehow live on her own in that art studio?  She supports herself by working at a coffee shop?

I don't like the idea that Tony somehow hurt Hannah, but maybe it was just evidence that he was the holder of the tapes.  I've sort of forgotten Ryan's role.  Was he Tony's boyfriend?  How would he have access to Hannah's journal?

I sort of wish Bryce was written as a football player rather than baseball.  Rape seems to be perfectly acceptable for college football players and the NFL - not so much in MLB.

Not only is it completely unbelievable that Jessica would be flyer material, but when the biggest girl in the bunch objected by saying she was supposed to be the flyer . . .

I'm sure this season will be filled with red herrings, but it seems pretty significant that Olivia is bent on revenge as well as perfecting her shooting skills.

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Where has Jessica been for five months, being homeschooled?  And how does she sashay in and still be on the cheerleading squad?  She was the weakest player on the team and they hold her spot?

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Have to admit I felt a bit of respect for Clay when he called himself an asshole who watching himself hug rather than kiss Hannah.  The hug itself seemed strange--as near as I can recall that is the only time we saw them hug. 

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Okay. Going into this I was extremely apprehensive. I thought they wrapped up the last season nicely. But this has a lot more potential than I thought. I think this could be better than season one, since they don't have to follow the rigid structure of the tapes and so there is no need for so much padding. Of course second seasons rarely are better than the first, so we'll see.

Also seems like we'll hear a bit more about Hannah's darker side, which is nice. On top of that it will be interesting to find out what Tony did to her. I think it's going to be a bit of a retcon, but it would make more sense that she actually had something on him than him just feeling guilty for not stopping the suicide.

 

The last scene with Clay and Sky was grating on so many levels. First of all Sky thinking immediatly that it had something to do with her when Clay didn't want to have sex. Somebody really needs to tell teenagers, both boys and girls, that boys are also allowed to just not want sex, for whatever reason and that it's not because anybody is ugly or undesirable.

Second, even though Sky's reaction was unresonable, I didn't like that Clay just left her like that. Wasn't that the thing he did to Hannah, the thing he was beating himself up about? It seems really out of character for him. I don't think he would have done this again, after all he had learned. He should have said that he just couldn't have sex with all that was going on but that he'd like to hang and/or cuddle.

 

In general I like Clay hallucinating Hannah. Like I said in a season one thread: "Unhinged Clay is best Clay".

 

On 19.5.2018 at 12:09 AM, tennisgurl said:

I dont really like Sky, so her and Clay being all kissy wasn't my favorite. At all. I would have rather checked in on everyone else. 

Well, I still think Clay should discover his bisexual side and get with Tony, so...

 

On 19.5.2018 at 11:18 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know the defense lawyer is just doing her job but ugh, I just can't with her trying to equate Hannah voluntarily letting Tyler take pictures of her in a public place with an upskirt photo being sent to everyone at school or Tyler skulking in the bushes taking pictures outside her bedroom window.

A lot of her arguments seemed to boil down to something you'd hear 100 years ago about people justifying a woman getting raped "Well she had sex with multiple men, so she must enjoy it. How can she suddenly say she doesn't want it?".

I don't get how every one of her sentences wasn't followed by "objection!". Either the Baker's lawyer is shit or the script is (but most court scenes on most shows are written crappily).

Edited by Miles
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