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ElectricBoogaloo

S02.E06: First Blood

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1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

Thank you for this. I am howling!

The smaller holes chafe, so she enlarged them.

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8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The smaller holes chafe, so she enlarged them.

I think ultimately that poster was trolling, but I cracked up at the comments for several pages.

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Just now, bilgistic said:

I think ultimately that poster was trolling, but I cracked up at the comments for several pages.

I had the opposite impression, it went on for days, she had to put her baby down for sleep, she told her three year old they had moths that made the holes.  You could be right though.

The main thing is that was the ONLY thing I could find on the web about anyone, ever, using sheet holes for sex.  Also, if you're going to troll, you pick a forum about moms and babies?  Uhhhh...  She honestly seemed to wonder if her husband was telling her the truth, and decided to ask in a forum with women she knew.

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Serena's, "oh hey surprise! I brought your friends over!" shows how mindnumbingly clueless she can be about this world she created. Those aren't June's friends, she never went to brunch with them before, they're just all on the same rung in this super insane world that Serena Joy helped bring about not realizing it would shackle her too.   June was a living, autonomous being with friends of her own like Moira, that had common interests other than getting raped once a month for the purposes of childbearing, but to Serena who is on a higher level just has the assumption, "they're all handmaids, they must be friends!".  Serena Joy just wanted to lord it over women what they should be because she thought she would have a place of power in that hierarchy, now she doesn't and she's pissed at other women about it, and now she's trying to teach poor clueless Eden how to act.  Two Ofglens doing awesome shit means I want to see an episode in the Glen house because they've had two handmaids that have become operatives. Maybe the Glen household is a cell working from the inside, which would be interesting to see.  

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I wonder if the boring sex thing is so that husbands and wives who are allowed to have sex are less likely to form strong bonds. Gilead wants people's allegiance to be to the country, not to anyone else. They don't want close, personal relationships because those could get dicey-if a man is more loyal to his spouse than to Gilead, that could cause problems down the road (like he might not turn her in if she does something wrong). Sex itself can create an emotional bond so that's already tipping the odds a little-they had to make it as boring and vanilla as possible. (Naturally, none of this applies to some of the higher ups, who can just go to Jezebels if they need something more because, at heart, many realize that the ideals behind Gilead are a crock.) There's an old story about soulmates, about how couples used to literally be attached at the hip but then the gods grew jealous because the couples paid more attention to each other than to the gods. To punish them, they couples were ripped apart and sent to opposite ends of the earth. Now we're apparently sending our lifetimes trying to find our literal other half. 

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I thought the parallels and imagery with Serena was a bit much this week. I get it. Serena took a bullet to the babymaker, therefore taking away her choice to have a child. Serena helped create this society where no women have choice. I get the idea but I think it's a bit much. And then to follow that up with the replanting of the seedling from its original pot into its own individual pot. I kinda felt like they were slapping me in the face and asking, "Geddit? Do you geddit? Clever, right?"

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a Fuck Yeah! moment being a suicide bomb. I haven't quite unpacked how I feel about this.

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9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I looked, the Amish community denies it, I know for sure the Mormons don't do it, those of the Jewish faith don't do it.  I can't even find it referenced in history.  I did find this, which at first I thought might be a troll, but she goes on and on about it.  It's the only way she's ever had sex, her husband told her all people do it this way.  (!)   https://community.babycenter.com/post/a39356788/dml_holes_in_sheets?cpg=4

She even ran to get a photo of her current sheet.  L7plrnRHZL1G5ORtGZVRhCFqDPjlwylt_lg.jpg

ahem, I do wonder where the writers came up with that.  Her husband is from Finland, or his ancestors are. 

 

My mother says as a teenager, her bi-racial Christian grandmother (born circa 1879) boasted that no man had ever seen her naked. My curious and incredulous mother asked how that was possible since she had several children, and she said that she and her husband (my Jewish great-grandfather), used a sheet with a hole for purposes of modesty. Maybe this was some sort of old country thing, not necessarily religion-specific. 

Edited by BrooklynRat · Reason: Clarity
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It truly says something about the state this show puts one in when I was actually more uncomfortable watching Srena and June “getting along” than I am watching Serena openly abuse June. It was just so frightening to think June started to normalize this, and I let out a relieved breath when the facade came down.

I thoroughly enjoyed Serena beeing booed out of the auditorium and my first coherent thought after the blast in the end was, hope that Fred bites it, not the least of which because it would cost Serena “her” child. I would laugh for days if that happened. Yet they consistently paint her as such an interesting (and always frightening) mix of different qualities. Really, she could have done like Janine’s commander (Warren, I think) and strung June along for a while telling her she’d arrange for June to see Hannah when the time was right. Only it never would be the right time. But Serena doesn’t roll like that. If she weren’t a complete sociopath, I think I’d probably admire that honesty about her.

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41 minutes ago, bijoux said:

It truly says something about the state this show puts one in when I was actually more uncomfortable watching Srena and June “getting along” than I am watching Serena openly abuse June. It was just so frightening to think June started to normalize this, and I let out a relieved breath when the facade came down.

 

I agree! My son and I were so uncomfortable watching those scenes that at one point he's like, "Should we just ff until she's a bitch again?" Waiting for that other shoe to drop, and you knew it would, was intense. 

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If the only purpose of sex in Gilead is procreation, shouldn't Eden have her periods charted just like the handmaids so that she and Nick only have sex when she can conceive?

The only single commander who might be able to marry Serena now is Marisa Tomei's husband. Did we ever learn why she was sent to the colonies? I can't remember. If he is still alive/around then that could be the solution for Serena if Fred got blown up. Since women tend to live longer than men, I wonder what the plan is for older widowed women. Do they automatically become aunts? Or is there some sort of retirement home so that the womenfolk can be properly supervised?

14 hours ago, cuppasun said:

While I can't be 100% certain about the Mormon (or at least fundamentalist versions) rumors--though I suspect they're not true*--I can say with total assurance that the Orthodox Jew version is a total myth. Snopes has a whole entry on it, even. Not a thing. There are a lot of reprehensible, misogynistic things the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox/Hasidim do, but that isn't one of them, for what it's worth.

Not surprised that Gilead would decide on it, though. The creepy just doesn't end with them...

* Just saw other posts confirming the Mormons are no more a part of that silly myth than us Jews. Thanks, folks, nice to have it verified.

 

Heh, well the "Mormons having sex through a sheet with a hole in it" was right up there with "Mormons wear special underwear" and "Mormons can't drink caffeine rumors." To be fair, although we did have a fair amount of Mormons at my high school, none of them were married and we weren't about to ask their parents!

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I looked, the Amish community denies it, I know for sure the Mormons don't do it, those of the Jewish faith don't do it.  I can't even find it referenced in history.  I did find this, which at first I thought might be a troll, but she goes on and on about it.  It's the only way she's ever had sex, her husband told her all people do it this way.  (!)   https://community.babycenter.com/post/a39356788/dml_holes_in_sheets?cpg=4

She even ran to get a photo of her current sheet.  L7plrnRHZL1G5ORtGZVRhCFqDPjlwylt_lg.jpg

ahem, I do wonder where the writers came up with that.  Her husband is from Finland, or his ancestors are. 

 

I did a half-hearted google search last night so I'm glad I'm not the only one who now has "hole in a sheet sex" in their search history.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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8 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The only single commander who might be able to marry Serena now is Marisa Tomei's husband. Did we ever learn why she was sent to the colonies? I can't remember.

She "fell in love" with someone who was not her husband as I recall.

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14 minutes ago, dleighg said:

She "fell in love" with someone who was not her husband as I recall.

Thanks for the reminder! I'm glad your memory is better than mine!

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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If the only purpose of sex in Gilead is procreation, shouldn't Eden have her periods charted just like the handmaids so that she and Nick only have sex when she can conceive?

 

I’m thinking maybe this first time was just to consummate the “marriage”. 

 

Btw, did anyone catch what she asked Nick if they should confirm worked, right after they were done?  Rewound twice and couldn’t catch it. 

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3 minutes ago, BrooklynRat said:

I’m thinking maybe this first time was just to consummate the “marriage”. 

 

Btw, did anyone catch what she asked Nick if they should confirm worked, right after they were done?  Rewound twice and couldn’t catch it. 

Something about if it didn't, then they'd keep trying. 

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4 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

Something about if it didn't, then they'd keep trying. 

She couldn’t wait to see if it worked.

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I believe a main purpose of this episode was to showcase just how truly fucked up the Waterfords' household is and in that vein I do believe they did a decent job.

None of these people fit together naturally and none of these people should be together frankly, especially since most of them are enslaved.

 But I do wonder if the good ones ever get to escape and flee and get to Canada, June and Nick and Rita and even Eden if they can get that silly girl on board, what would be in store for them?

Would Rita get Eden in the divorce to raise and care for as her own while June and Nick figure things out with Luke? 

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16 hours ago, GraceK said:

just wish someone else was playing June. Elizabeth Moss I just don’t like at all. This may be a unpopular opinion on these boards but for me personally she plays June with this smirking, bitchy look on her face that makes it really hard for me to sympathize with her. Ugh I know people are gonna get real mad at me for saying it, but I don’t know what it is!!!! She’s the main character but there is just something about her that I just don’t like. She does look like she’s constantly devious and planning something and it’s annoying. 

OMG I thought I was the only one. I am so on board with you. Even when she is by herself, she smirks! Just bugs the living hell outta me. 

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As far as why Eden doesn't have her periods checked and have to follow a schedule for sex?

Here are my guesses. 

1.  She's fifteen. Periods can be very irregular at that age, so the "day" Gilead places so much faith in, could really vary.

2.  Eden and Nick are just married, so I think they are expected to form that marital bond, and that's pretty hard to do with sex only once a month.  Maybe the Commanders still remember being young and in love?

Didn't Heather, the econowife say something about being quiet or the neighbors would tell?  I'm unclear about Econwife sex schedules a bit.  For one thing, many of their husbands are off fighting the wars, so they may only get leave for a week a year or something.  Would they have dispensation for sex?

My head hurts thinking about all this crap.

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I hated the whole "Serena got shot" part, because if I'm not mistaken, by then she was just someone with stupid and dangerous ideas and I got the feeling of "see, they started it by attacking her, they were the first ones to cross the line". It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Otoh, it explains something I didn't quite understand until now: the lack of sex between Fred and Serena. Because it's one thing to forbid sex to older couples, unable to have children (like the Waterfords in the book) and it's another to forbid sex to a couple who could have children if God said so. Meaning it wouldn't be the first time a couple think they can't have children for some reason and she gets unexpectedly pregnant. You know, the "we had been trying for ten years and when we gave up, I got pregnant". But now I think I get it. There's medical proof she can't have children, ever, so of course sex is completely out of the table under Gilead rules. But imo, other married couples are allowed to have sex until the woman gets old enough. 

The episode was pretty "meh" until the last five minutes with June's "cramp" and the awesome, brave Ofglen. The whole thing was beautifully shot, by the way. 

I guess most Commanders love -or don't hate- their wives, so I don't think their regular plans for widowed Wifes are too nasty. But if Fred died there and the other Commanders thought the attack was his fault, perhaps Serena could end up losing all her "privileges" and becoming an Aunt or a supervisor (not sure if it's the right word) in the colonies, or, in the worst case, an "unwoman". A warning for other Commanders if they don't do their duty properly. 

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One of the things that bothered me about the Nick/Eden sex scene (beyond the carefully embroidered hole sheet - ick) is that the "ok, let's get to it" nature of the sex (no foreplay) would be awfully uncomfortable for Eden, especially as a virgin.  Yet she was all smiles, which seemed genuine, not forced. 

Also, would it kill the Waterfords to buy them a few gallons of paint and some more lightbulbs as a wedding present?  That apartment is dreary!

@Eureka, thanks for clarifying what Eden said.  I heard "let's see if it worked" and wondered what kind of miracle pregnancy test they had that could detect conception in the first 2 minutes.  "I can't wait to see... " makes so much more sense.

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1 minute ago, chaifan said:

One of the things that bothered me about the Nick/Eden sex scene (beyond the carefully embroidered hole sheet - ick) is that the "ok, let's get to it" nature of the sex (no foreplay) would be awfully uncomfortable for Eden, especially as a virgin.  Yet she was all smiles, which seemed genuine, not forced. 

I felt the same way. Even with the most gentle and loving foreplay, the first experience for a woman can be uncomfortable at least. The way it was portrayed there would be positively painful for her. 

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I felt the same way. Even with the most gentle and loving foreplay, the first experience for a woman can be uncomfortable at least. The way it was portrayed there would be positively painful for her.

Which is why I couldn't help but wonder if Nick was taking advantage of Eden's inexperience and not actually penetrating her. Eden did tell Serena that her mother explained what to expect, but who knows how detailed that explanation was? My sister is a doctor who at one time worked in the obstetrics department of a Brooklyn-area hospital. Quite a few of her patients were very young Hasidic wives -- some just 14-15 years old. She often found herself in the position of explaining to these girls that they were pregnant and how that had come to pass. Apparently, their mothers and other women in their lives were less than forthcoming about the details of procreation.

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2 minutes ago, freebie said:

Which is why I couldn't help but wonder if Nick was taking advantage of Eden's inexperience and not actually penetrating her.

very interesting theory! Since women are very involved in the production of this series, this idea is plausible.

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25 minutes ago, dleighg said:

Even with the most gentle and loving foreplay, the first experience for a woman can be uncomfortable at least. The way it was portrayed there would be positively painful for her. 

Well, it's not like she's going to complain about it.  She had no expectations beyond getting some swimmers in hopes of making a baby.

In real life, yeah, the briefness would definitely be uncomfortable for her, but it felt like that was the point.  We've seen Nick and June go at it for some duration on multiple occasions, where here he's basically a two pump "let's get this over with" chump because he finds the whole thing so distasteful he can't put any more effort into it than that to shut her up.

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Regarding Mormons, it's not a sheet, but it was/is apparently not uncommon for them to have sex while wearing at least some of their magic underwear, er, garments.

No, not usually.  If a person who wears garments chooses to keep them on during sex, that is their choice not a directive from the church.

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Heh, well the "Mormons having sex through a sheet with a hole in it" was right up there with "Mormons wear special underwear" and "Mormons can't drink caffeine rumors." To be fair, although we did have a fair amount of Mormons at my high school, none of them were married and we weren't about to ask their parents!

Members of the Mormon church who have been to the temple do wear a religious garment which should be removed during sex.  Here is a very to the point explanation of what the garments are.

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They are simple, modest underclothing given to adult members of the Church as part of special ceremonies in  our temples. In these ceremonies, we commit ourselves to live the way Jesus Christ would have us live, and the  garments are a constant physical reminder of this personal, spiritual commitment. In this way, garments can help protect us against temptation and evil. - The New Era, Sep 2012 (a church magazine for youth.)

Edited by ali59
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2 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I hated the whole "Serena got shot" part, because if I'm not mistaken, by then she was just someone with stupid and dangerous ideas and I got the feeling of "see, they started it by attacking her, they were the first ones to cross the line". It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Otoh, it explains something I didn't quite understand until now: the lack of sex between Fred and Serena. Because it's one thing to forbid sex to older couples, unable to have children (like the Waterfords in the book) and it's another to forbid sex to a couple who could have children if God said so. Meaning it wouldn't be the first time a couple think they can't have children for some reason and she gets unexpectedly pregnant. You know, the "we had been trying for ten years and when we gave up, I got pregnant". But now I think I get it. There's medical proof she can't have children, ever, so of course sex is completely out of the table under Gilead rules. But imo, other married couples are allowed to have sex until the woman gets old enough. 

The episode was pretty "meh" until the last five minutes with June's "cramp" and the awesome, brave Ofglen. The whole thing was beautifully shot, by the way. 

I guess most Commanders love -or don't hate- their wives, so I don't think their regular plans for widowed Wifes are too nasty. But if Fred died there and the other Commanders thought the attack was his fault, perhaps Serena could end up losing all her "privileges" and becoming an Aunt or a supervisor (not sure if it's the right word) in the colonies, or, in the worst case, an "unwoman". A warning for other Commanders if they don't do their duty properly. 

We've seen last season that Serena was much more than that.  She was on TV, she'd written many books, she was a leader, and she was most certainly famous.

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There were a few things that did not seem to fit with this episode for me.  The opening of the Center was Fred's big moment.  I would think he would want his handmaid there as a pregnant trophy to show off.  All of the other handmaids were there but his.  Just seemed odd.  It also seemed strange that Aunt Lydia was not visible at the ceremony.  She seems to be everywhere. Whenever there is an event where the collection of handmaids are together (like the dinner for the Mexican ambassador), Aunt Lydia is fluttering around correcting and supervising.  She was even at the Center two days prior while it was under construction. So why wasn't she there for the opening ceremony with the handmaids (not to mention I didn't see any Aunts there either). 

I also scratched my head on why I didn't see any guards, especially at the doors.  They know the Resistance is active. You would think there would be guards all over the place. 

I also didn't understand why, when Ofglen was running up the aisle with her detonator held in the air, the Commanders in the seats were all getting up and running away from her.  It all would have happened so fast, how would they be able to register that it was a dangerous situation instead of thinking some handmaid was just running up the aisle?  I doubt they would even be able to see the detonator. Why didn't any of them try to tackle her? 

And why didn't June fake a cramp when Serena dropped the knitting needle?  Why wait for Eden?  If June's goal was to be Serena's equal, she should have started to bend down and then claim she felt a strong cramp and had to sit down (then she and Serena would both have been seated as equals).

Probably just me overthinking it. 

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I also didn't understand why, when Ofglen was running up the aisle with her detonator held in the air, the Commanders in the seats were all getting up and running away from her.  It all would have happened so fast, how would they be able to register that it was a dangerous situation instead of thinking some handmaid was just running up the aisle?  I doubt they would even be able to see the detonator. Why didn't any of them try to tackle her? 

I just rewatched that scene to see if it's a dead-man switch or a detonator. It's the latter, so your point is valid. But it all does happen really fast. I would imagine a lot of those dudes were so comfortable with handmaids (and women) being meek and obedient that it took them a hair too long to register her as a threat. Plus they knew there was going to be some sort of spectacle, and maybe thought that was part of it. Just guesses here. 

On re-watching the scene, it was a nice touch that her dumb handmaid headdress fell off while she was running. 

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15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We've seen last season that Serena was much more than that.  She was on TV, she'd written many books, she was a leader, and she was most certainly famous.

I don't know, that scene rubbed me in the wrong way, but this time I want to be wrong because I don't want to believe that the show is telling us that the other side drew the first blood like it's something significant.

5 minutes ago, Quinny said:

 

And why didn't June fake a cramp when Serena dropped the knitting needle?  Why wait for Eden?  If June's goal was to be Serena's equal, she should have started to bend down and then claim she felt a strong cramp and had to sit down (then she and Serena would both have been seated as equals).

Probably just me overthinking it. 

Imo, the first time June just wanted to show Serena (and Eden) that she was above Serena's shit. If a baby throws something to the floor, do you get mad? But when Serena told Eden to do the same, June saw it wouldn't be good for her relationship with Eden -who seems to understand she's a human being-, and for Eden herself, and that's when she decided to use the fake cramp card. And somehow, this made the move even better, because June obeyed the obviously petty order first, such a good girl, and then Serena showed she was even pettier by doing it a second time and when June faked the cramp it looked like Serena was risking the baby. Eden must be thinking Serena's creepy. I wish she told Aunt Lydia.

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June recognized Serena right away when they first met.  I think Serena even had her own TV show, and even though it's certainly not one June would probably have watched?  She still recognized her.

I don't think June gives a shit about Eden's opinion of her.  That was a power play between her an Serena.  Eden is nothing, except possibly a danger to Nick. 

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23 hours ago, GraceK said:

I just wish someone else was playing June. Elizabeth Moss I just don’t like at all. This may be a unpopular opinion on these boards but for me personally she plays June with this smirking, bitchy look on her face that makes it really hard for me to sympathize with her. Ugh I know people are gonna get real mad at me for saying it, but I don’t know what it is!!!! She’s the main character but there is just something about her that I just don’t like. She does look like she’s constantly devious and planning something and it’s annoying. 

100% this.... also the twitchy/shiney eye thing bugs me as well...

Edited by BellyLaughter
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4 hours ago, chaifan said:

One of the things that bothered me about the Nick/Eden sex scene (beyond the carefully embroidered hole sheet - ick) is that the "ok, let's get to it" nature of the sex (no foreplay) would be awfully uncomfortable for Eden, especially as a virgin.  Yet she was all smiles, which seemed genuine, not forced.

I hate that the scene was even included and it made me question whether I wanted to continue watching the show. The way the episode ended pulled me right back in... but I wont last much longer of they keep using the show as a vehicle to push gratuitous sex scenes onto actresses/viewers.

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4 hours ago, chaifan said:

One of the things that bothered me about the Nick/Eden sex scene (beyond the carefully embroidered hole sheet - ick) is that the "ok, let's get to it" nature of the sex (no foreplay) would be awfully uncomfortable for Eden, especially as a virgin.  Yet she was all smiles, which seemed genuine, not forced. 

Also, would it kill the Waterfords to buy them a few gallons of paint and some more lightbulbs as a wedding present?  That apartment is dreary!

@Eureka, thanks for clarifying what Eden said.  I heard "let's see if it worked" and wondered what kind of miracle pregnancy test they had that could detect conception in the first 2 minutes.  "I can't wait to see... " makes so much more sense.

The dark and dreary thing bugs me to no end on this show.  I know, it sets the mood for the show, its supposed to be somber and dreary.  Still, I watch the show on my cell phone often and its so dark I seriously can't even tell what is happening some of the time. 

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18 minutes ago, grublove said:

I hate that the scene was even included and it made me question whether I wanted to continue watching the show. The way the episode ended pulled me right back in... but I wont last much longer of they keep using the show as a vehicle to push gratuitous sex scenes onto actresses/viewers.

We saw nothing.  She was covered neck to toe in a sheet.  We saw Nick's reluctance, and a heard a grunt at the end.  No other sex was even shown, just his face, and then her's after.

14 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

The dark and dreary thing bugs me to no end on this show.  I know, it sets the mood for the show, its supposed to be somber and dreary.  Still, I watch the show on my cell phone often and its so dark I seriously can't even tell what is happening some of the time. 

I think it goes back to lack of electricity.  They probably are rationing electricity.  Supplies in the US are limited, and the infrastructure is shot.  Other countries are boycotting them, so they can't get supplies of anything at all they need.  Dim bulb old fashioned lights are in all the homes, and sparingly.  Fires are always lit, and I don't think that's just supposed to be atmosphere, I think it's because they don't want people using electricity, both because of supplies, and because all of Gilead is back to "the old days." 

Machinery isn't around, no dishwashers, bread machines, washing machines, none of it.  As usual, the men in offices have lights, and the women do most of the day to day work, not much advanced from pioneer days.

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I wouldn't call it a gratuitous sex scene either.  Aside from the weird as hell sheet thing which I'm not touching, we didn't see anything.  There was nothing remotely titillating about it at all.

What it was was a storytelling device.  We saw Nick trying to avoid it as something he wanted no part of and his distaste for the very idea of it, both because of Eden's youth and inexperience and because he believes himself in love with June.  When there was no more getting around it to keep Eden from making a fuss that might raise suspicions or possibly reporting him as a suspected gender traitor it was as unsexy and perfunctory as possible in direct contrast to the stamina and care we've seen him show with June, a woman he did want to have sex with after that first time.  It was supposed to feel unpleasant because it was, probably as close as we're going to see to being the male equivalent of June lying back and gritting her teeth through the "ceremony."  This show is one where the sex being had or not being had is pretty much always a part of the story.

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Re: the sex sheet with the hole.  I have read two books that make reference to a sheet with a hole.  One was about Orthodox Jews ( I don't remember the title).  The second one was Like Water for Chocolate.  It made mention how the one character married his beloved's sister and used the sheet with the hole to have sex with her.  So real or myth, it's been referenced before in literature. 

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31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We saw nothing.  She was covered neck to toe in a sheet.  We saw Nick's reluctance, and a heard a grunt at the end.  No other sex was even shown, just his face, and then her's after.

I think it goes back to lack of electricity.  They probably are rationing electricity.  Supplies in the US are limited, and the infrastructure is shot.  Other countries are boycotting them, so they can't get supplies of anything at all they need.  Dim bulb old fashioned lights are in all the homes, and sparingly.  Fires are always lit, and I don't think that's just supposed to be atmosphere, I think it's because they don't want people using electricity, both because of supplies, and because all of Gilead is back to "the old days." 

Machinery isn't around, no dishwashers, bread machines, washing machines, none of it.  As usual, the men in offices have lights, and the women do most of the day to day work, not much advanced from pioneer days.

Again, I get it, its part of the society and problems, but its still also a TV show and would be nice to at least be able to see what is happening

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29 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We saw nothing.  She was covered neck to toe in a sheet.  We saw Nick's reluctance, and a heard a grunt at the end.  No other sex was even shown, just his face, and then her's after.

60 seconds straight of a man thrusting into an actress portraying a child isn't 'we saw nothing'.

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Not only that, but it was obvious from the camera angle she wasn't even in the scene with him (acting wise that is.)  The camera was placed where she would have been, for a lot of that scene.

Edited by Umbelina
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16 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I agree! My son and I were so uncomfortable watching those scenes that at one point he's like, "Should we just ff until she's a bitch again?" Waiting for that other shoe to drop, and you knew it would, was intense. 

Yeah, watching Serena be nice is even worse than Serena being awful. You just keep waiting for the switch to flip, and it can be any little thing that makes her angry. Even stuff that makes no sense or is beyond Junes control can send her into a sadistic temper tantrum. Its like when your watching a horror movie, and you know the monster is about to jump out from the darkness and scare you. Nothing bad has happened yet, but the suspense of waiting for the inevitable is excruciating! 

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5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Not sure how else to phrase this, but ... this show is literally about the total subjugation of women of all ages, including sexually. Not showing these kinds of scenes (which they obviously take great care with) kind of defeats the purpose. It's been pretty obvious from the pilot onwards what kind of story they were telling, and how they were going to tell it. If it was easy to watch, it would be some other show.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The 'ceremony' scenes were absolutely relevant to the story being told, but the scene with Nick and Eden and even the sex scene between June and Nick during June's escape felt completely unnecessary.

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5 minutes ago, grublove said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. The 'ceremony' scenes were absolutely relevant to the story being told, but the scene with Nick and Eden and even the sex scene between June and Nick during June's escape felt completely unnecessary.

Whatever you do, don’t watch Game of Thrones!   I didn’t think the scenes of June and nick was gratuitous per se, but I did think it went on a bit long

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47 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Not sure how else to phrase this, but ... this show is literally about the total subjugation of women of all ages, including sexually. Not showing these kinds of scenes (which they obviously take great care with) kind of defeats the purpose. It's been pretty obvious from the pilot onwards what kind of story they were telling, and how they were going to tell it. If it was easy to watch, it would be some other show.

Yes. The character is supposed to be 15, and I believe the actress is 20. 

Yes, she's 20, she'll be 21 in mid September.

Also, I agree. 

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4 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

If the scene made you uncomfortable, it wasn’t gratuitous. If the scene has us talking about it’s deeper meaning, it wasn’t gratuitous. I do get that you didn’t like it and didn’t wish to see it, but that doesn’t make it gratuitous.

Ehhh.

The scene between Nick and Eden didn't make me feel uncomfortable in anything close to a meaningful way. It made me roll my eyes and wonder which perv behind the scenes was exploiting what started out as a thoughtfully executed show.

Continuing the scene after Nick climbed into bed added nothing (in my opinion).

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3 minutes ago, grublove said:

Ehhh.

The scene between Nick and Eden didn't make me feel uncomfortable in anything close to a meaningful way. It made me roll my eyes and wonder which perv behind the scenes was exploiting what started out as a thoughtfully executed show.

Continuing the scene after Nick climbed into bed added nothing (in my opinion).

Why are you calling this person a perv? The actor is an adult, and the point of the scene was to convey how mechanical sex is with his wife versus June. I don’t see how that’s worthy of someone being labeled a perv. You couldn’t see anything except a back and two arms.

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