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S05.E20: The One Who Will Save Us All

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A newly determined Talbot takes Coulson to meet the enemy and attempts to avert Earth's destruction.

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They mentioned Thanos beginning his attack on Earth.  Holy crap.

Spoilers for Infinity War

Spoiler

Does this mean that the snap's effects on the team is the cliffhanger?

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Can someone please get Mack to stop saying we our better than that Gravitonium is so unpredictable 

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1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

They mentioned Thanos beginning his attack on Earth.  Holy crap.

Spoilers for Infinity War

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Does this mean that the snap's effects on the team is the cliffhanger?

No turning back now. The question will it look the same or different like the Inhumans miniseries did 

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So, overall it was okay, but there were some parts in the middle there -- long stretches of people arguing -- that just felt tedious. The Talbot-goes-evil thing was so telegraphed, I just didn't feel surprised when he went full on Graviton. I guess my initial suspicion was correct - that Hale and Ruby were the teaser villains, and Graviton was the big bad all along. Although I didn't realize just who would be Graviton.

 

Wow, the writers are really doubling down on the Deke and Daisy. They even lampshaded it this episode twice -- why is he even still there? Why did he go on the mission? I guess he showed some usefulness getting the lighthouse computers up and running, but why go on the mission except to literally hold Daisy's hand.

 

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

They mentioned Thanos beginning his attack on Earth.  Holy crap.

Spoilers for Infinity War

  Hide contents

Does this mean that the snap's effects on the team is the cliffhanger?

God, I hope that's how they end season 5.

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It may happen.  They acknowledged the Hydra reveal in Winter Soldier, and it would be hard not to acknowledge Infinity War.  How this works into the time loop and cracking the Earth apart, I'm not sure.

I am getting weary of the infighting in the group, and I'm sad to see the end of Talbot as an ally.  He wasn't wrong about all the times SHIELD was secretly working against him.  However, he went supervillain really fast.  As soon as he put on that outfit the rest of the story was obvious.

The elder Kassius deftly flattered the green councilman into throwing himself in front of Talbot.  I figured he would turn out to be at least partially responsible for blowing up the Earth, and it looks as though he is.

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If this season ends back where we started in the fall, I will want 22 hours back.

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19 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

 

I am getting weary of the infighting in the group, and I'm sad to see the end of Talbot as an ally.  He wasn't wrong about all the times SHIELD was secretly working against him.  However, he went supervillain really fast.  As soon as he put on that outfit the rest of the story was obvious.

 

 I actually kind of liked Talbot. Why the fuck does he have to be turned into an enemy? It's Pope from Falling Skies all over again but at least Talbot is a decent human, as far as we know. 

48 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

So, overall it was okay, but there were some parts in the middle there -- long stretches of people arguing -- that just felt tedious. The Talbot-goes-evil thing was so telegraphed, I just didn't feel surprised when he went full on Graviton. I guess my initial suspicion was correct - that Hale and Ruby were the teaser villains, and Graviton was the big bad all along. Although I didn't realize just who would be Graviton.

 

Wow, the writers are really doubling down on the Deke and Daisy. They even lampshaded it this episode twice -- why is he even still there? Why did he go on the mission? I guess he showed some usefulness getting the lighthouse computers up and running, but why go on the mission except to literally hold Daisy's hand.

 

God, I hope that's how they end season 5.

Spoiler

I hope that Deke, Daisy, Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, Yo-Yo, and have that be their series finale. It's not going to happen and Talbot,  Hale, Candy Man, maybe Deke and Yo-Yo are the goners for sure (if there are any) that will get blinked/dusted. Also, there seems to be a good chance that they are just going to have it happening off-screen and/or drag it out to the very last episode or something.  

 
 
Edited by TVSpectator
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Sweet, Daddy Kassius is played by Craig Parker (Glaber from Spartacus, Narcisse from Reign), who is one of my favorites!  And he really has the perfect voice and smug attitude for a Kree (I say that with love!)  And he got to be in some scenes with Peter Mensah, which is cool since I don't think they ever shared one on Spartacus.

Just when you think the infighting can't get any worse, Daisy and Yo-Yo just flat-out start beating each other up in the hallways, until Melinda has to shoot a gun in the air to stop it.  Also, I'm guessing Fitz and Mack will no longer be hanging out and playing video games anytime soon.

Love you, Simmons, but after everything you've done, you getting worried about morality now is hilarious.  That said, something bad will end up happening with Daisy' plan to use her mom's corpse to save Coulson.

Talbot's gone full-fledge evil now, which saddens me, but Adrian Pasdar is certainly having the time of his life.

Fare thee well, Hale!

Ah, Deke!  As the old saying goes: "When life gives you lemons, blame it on Fitz if your crush rejects them!"

Definitely looks like they're addressing Infinity War now, but I'm really curious to see how far they will take it.

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Given the talk about timelines, universes, and all the other stuff, maybe AoS has diverged from MCU I'm saying this because I can't see any logical way there could be a sixth season if Infinity War is factored in. If Disney/Marvel/ABC went, "Given what's going on, we're taking a year off. We don't want to hurt the minds of our more dedicated fans," I would completely understand. Give us a series centered in the past. Or maybe spotlight one extraneous Marvel media character in each episode. Except for the Inhumans because there's no way to make them cool. Save for Lockjaw, of course, Lockjaw is Best Dog.

I keep bucking for Mack to "end" Thanos with his shotgun axe for some time . . . and now I'm bummed we won't see Talbot face Thanos. "Hey! Purple stuff! The name's Talbot. Glenn Talbot I suggest you turn your ships around, lest you get your grape-flavored ass handed to you by Earth's mightiest hero!" Then Thanos turns to one of his crew. "Is it me, or is that facial hair really annoying? I've seen Stark and Strange, but I didn't wnt to kill either of them as much as I do with this asshole."

The main cast? Still angsting, and I'm not really hating any of them Not even Deke, as he piles lemons in Daisy's bunk. And he doesn't know about "high fives," which shows how dire his home time was. Poor bastard.

Edited by Lantern7
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9 minutes ago, fellini said:

Ruby cut off YoYo's arms and then later  YoYo kills her. I don't get why Daisy and Mack are mad about Ruby dying.

Thank you!

 

This episode just irked me.

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2 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Wow, the writers are really doubling down on the Deke and Daisy. They even lampshaded it this episode twice -- why is he even still there? Why did he go on the mission? I guess he showed some usefulness getting the lighthouse computers up and running, but why go on the mission except to literally hold Daisy's hand.

Which made no sense. Given that Deke was still callous about selling her into slavery, was disrespectful towards her when she was the leader, and has defied orders, why is Daisy saying she's glad he's around? Why is Daisy confiding in Deke instead of Mack? Given how badly he screwed things up last time, why he is even allowed on a mission when he can't seem to follow orders during an op? This is so badly written.

36 minutes ago, fellini said:

Ruby cut off YoYo's arms and then later  YoYo kills her. I don't get why Daisy and Mack are mad about Ruby dying.

It feels like an easy way for the writers to ignore the issues regarding Fitz by bringing up a new schism in the ranks - so you have Daisy and Elena fighting instead of people addressing Fitz as a possible danger who might go full Ward, who tortured Daisy, who endangered Mack's life, and spun the current crisis into motion by giving in to Ruby when he could have said no (which was the crux of his argument for torturing Daisy - 'the greater good').

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48 minutes ago, fellini said:

Ruby cut off YoYo's arms and then later  YoYo kills her. I don't get why Daisy and Mack are mad about Ruby dying.

Heroes don't kill, they carry icers. People like the Punisher kill first. While the  nameless and faceless seem to be not people by the lack of reaction to their deaths the death is rarely verified either 

Edited by Raja

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21 minutes ago, Raja said:

Heroes don't kill, they carry icers.

Except when May decided to kill Lash (she didn't succeed because Lash was immune to the actual bullets), or that time Coulson killed Ward for fridging killing his new gf, and Hunter giving headshots left and right when he and Bobbi eliminated the last heads of Hydra, etc, etc, etc.

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2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, I'm guessing Fitz and Mack will no longer be hanging out and playing video games anytime soon.

Not until Fitz figures out how many Gods there are.

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Still seeing a lot on social media that people our saying it’s unacceptable what YoYo did not sure how it can be that black and white and no grey area 

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21 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Still seeing a lot on social media that people our saying it’s unacceptable what YoYo did not sure how it can be that black and white and no grey area 

They're the same people who excuse Fitz for what he did. Elena is held to a different standard because she isn't Fitz, or even Deke (who was excused for his actions). The whole fight with Daisy seemed pretty contrived as a means of bringing forth a new conflict to move away from the prior schism that they have no real interest in delving into because it would make Fitz look bad (and Mack's own dressing down of Fitz was pretty tame, all things considered).

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5 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

They're the same people who excuse Fitz for what he did. Elena is held to a different standard because she isn't Fitz, or even Deke (who was excused for his actions). The whole fight with Daisy seemed pretty contrived as a means of bringing forth a new conflict to move away from the prior schism that they have no real interest in delving into because it would make Fitz look bad (and Mack's own dressing down of Fitz was pretty tame, all things considered).

idk for me their is always that grey area before you do what you do like does it save billions a few other examples I could use but Inthink you understand what i’m Saying 

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I did like parts of both sides of the argument with Fitz and Mack you could make a point they were both right 

 

the only part I dislike was Mack saying we our Shield we our better than that I don’t agree with that statement 

Edited by Froippi
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7 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Which made no sense. Given that Deke was still callous about selling her into slavery, was disrespectful towards her when she was the leader, and has defied orders, why is Daisy saying she's glad he's around? Why is Daisy confiding in Deke instead of Mack? Given how badly he screwed things up last time, why he is even allowed on a mission when he can't seem to follow orders during an op? This is so badly written.

At this point, I don't see how Deke and Daisy become romantically involved, unless he somehow sticks around. And logically, he can't stick around, because they need to change the future. Of course, I don't rule out some implausible handwaving and stuff to get Deke to stick around for a potential next season, but I feel confident that it won't be happening by the finale. I'm just pleased Daisy still doesn't seem him as boyfriend material. All she sees is them getting along better. 

That being said, I would have preferred Daisy/Mack getting a scene together. 

This whole team fracturing plot they insist on doing is stupid. It's badly written, and I'm not impressed by it. I don't get why Mack's so up in arms about his girlfriend killing a danger to society. Ruby would have absolutely killed many people; look at what Talbot's going through. All she did was put a stop to that. And now, suddenly, killing is wrong? What is this, The Flash?

At least Mack/Fitz got to have an actual conversation together. I'm glad Mack, at least, got to tell Fitz that he needs fixing.

Everyone is making stupid ass decisions this season, so I don't really have anyone to root for. Last season, I will admit is my favourite. This season might be the worst yet. Budget cuts actually hindered the show, in my opinion.  

A Thanos mention! That's a good start.

Spoiler

Now I feel a little more comfortable with the idea that the end of Infinity War will actually affect this show by the end of the season, if the next two episodes take place within a day. If they go this way, if they end the series on a cliffhanger, even if the show's cancelled, I'd actually be pretty impressed. 

Poor Talbot. He's gone completely bonkers. But hey, Adrian Pasdar is getting excellent material here.

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Thanos is not out to destroy habitable planets...his goal is to balance resources with population. Somebody else destroyed Earth...

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11 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Which made no sense. Given that Deke was still callous about selling her into slavery, was disrespectful towards her when she was the leader, and has defied orders, why is Daisy saying she's glad he's around? Why is Daisy confiding in Deke instead of Mack? Given how badly he screwed things up last time, why he is even allowed on a mission when he can't seem to follow orders during an op? This is so badly written.

It feels like an easy way for the writers to ignore the issues regarding Fitz by bringing up a new schism in the ranks - so you have Daisy and Elena fighting instead of people addressing Fitz as a possible danger who might go full Ward, who tortured Daisy, who endangered Mack's life, and spun the current crisis into motion by giving in to Ruby when he could have said no (which was the crux of his argument for torturing Daisy - 'the greater good').

Fitz is not going go "full Ward". The only one who ever went "full Ward" was Ward. Not all bad guys or people who turn darker are Ward. Ward is not the only bad guy in this world or any other. There were many before and many after. Ward was never good, he was always evil, he was just hiding it. That's not Fitz in any way, shape or form. So even if he Fitz went to the dark side for good, he would still not be anything at all like Ward.

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56 minutes ago, paigow said:

Thanos is not out to destroy habitable planets...his goal is to balance resources with population. Somebody else destroyed Earth...

Right, but since the show has always sold itself as a part of the MCU, 

Spoiler

the ending of Infinity War should still heavily impact this show since Thanos instantly dusted half the population of the universe.  Half or so of the characters (main, recurring, guest, human, inhuman, and alien) should be dusted.  There was already the throwaway mention of events in New York last week; I don't know how long the events of the movie took, but it didn't seem like more than a few days.  I don't think quite that much time has passed in the timeline of the show since last week's episode, but the clock better be ticking on this show, too.  I'll be really annoyed if no one is dusted.

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2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Fitz is not going go "full Ward". The only one who ever went "full Ward" was Ward. Not all bad guys or people who turn darker are Ward. Ward is not the only bad guy in this world or any other. There were many before and many after. Ward was never good, he was always evil, he was just hiding it. That's not Fitz in any way, shape or form. So even if he Fitz went to the dark side for good, he would still not be anything at all like Ward.

Fitz was locked up because he was viewed to be a danger, and even he admitted that he was hearing the Doctor. The possibility of him giving in to his Hydra persona existed, but that's been almost entirely forgotten by the show at this point. There was the possibility of him becoming a threat, the same way Ward was a threat to everyone. That's what I'm referring to.

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Wow, with the reference to New York last week, and the conversation about Thanos this week, it looks like we really will be tying things into Infinity War. Which is awesome, because I hate that the TV stuff has become so separated from the movie stuff, and its not awesome, because 

Spoiler

that means the Snapening will be part of the season finale. I bet we get to the end where everyone is solved, everyone is making strides towards getting together again, and then...half the characters turn to dust. End episode and season. Brutal AF. *plays Dust in the Wind* Actually, that sounds kind of heartbreakingly awesome.

So, kind of excited to see where that goes. 

Sad to see Talbot losing his mind, after everything he has been through, and how hard he has tried to stay a good guy. I hope someone can get through to him, or get that stuff out of him, but that seems unlikely. I guess the best he can hope for now is saving the world and sacrificing his life. 

I dont really get what the big deal is with YoYo killing Ruby was. I get that it was a hard, morally grey choice, but she had a good reason to do it, and people on this show have done worse, for less justifiable reasons. Especially Daisy lecturing her about it being evil, when Daisy is willing to risk the whole world to save Coulson,even when he doesn't want them to. Again, I get it, but that should give her some perspective on why YoYo did what she did. She saw a clear threat, and took care of it. It sucks they couldn't help Ruby, but thats just how things went.

Mack has always been kind of the moral center of the show, but him going on to YoYo was annoying, especially as she is her dang boyfriend. He acted like Ruby was some innocent, did he forget that Ruby cut Elena's arms off? And tried to kill them all? Forget those tin details? Way to supportive your clearly traumatized girlfriend Mack! I did like his talk with Fitz though, that was very much needed. Hopefully this means Fitz will start thinking more about what he has been doing lately, and if its as justified as he thought it was. The gang has done a lot of VERY iffy stuff this year, its hard for anyone to throw stones at this point. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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17 hours ago, fellini said:

Ruby cut off YoYo's arms and then later  YoYo kills her. I don't get why Daisy and Mack are mad about Ruby dying.

They just need a way to cause more tension. IMO, this show is so not written well. 

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Mack has always been kind of the moral center of the show, but him going on to YoYo was annoying, especially as she is her dang boyfriend. He acted like Ruby was some innocent, did he forget that Ruby cut Elena's arms off? And tried to kill them all? Forget those tin details? Way to supportive your clearly traumatized girlfriend Mack! I did like his talk with Fitz though, that was very much needed. Hopefully this means Fitz will start thinking more about what he has been doing lately, and if its as justified as he thought it was. The gang has done a lot of VERY iffy stuff this year, its hard for anyone to throw stones at this point. 

4

You know I don't know why people should be angry at Mack. One thing this looks like their relationship (Mack's and Yo-Yo's) is pretty much done since Yo-Yo was part of Simmons' group of tricking him and then locking him in a cell to free Fitz. I can't say that he shouldn't be angry but clearly not for what Yo-Yo did to Ruby. Also, it seems like there is always a scene where someone comes up to Fitz to explain why he sucks and finally Fitz needed that talk. I doubt that it will stick since the latest trend has been for Fitz to go off and do something stupid in order that things get worse. It seems that the writers have decided to have Simmons join him in his stupidity. 

2 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Fitz was locked up because he was viewed to be a danger, and even he admitted that he was hearing the Doctor. The possibility of him giving in to his Hydra persona existed, but that's been almost entirely forgotten by the show at this point. There was the possibility of him becoming a threat, the same way Ward was a threat to everyone. That's what I'm referring to.

I agree that the writers have easily forgotten about it as well as them forgetting why Daisy will not like Deke. It seems like force writing when the writers do this but I just hate it. It's just another sign that this show isn't well written and it suffers from  the poor writing as well 

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2 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Fitz was locked up because he was viewed to be a danger, and even he admitted that he was hearing the Doctor. The possibility of him giving in to his Hydra persona existed, but that's been almost entirely forgotten by the show at this point. There was the possibility of him becoming a threat, the same way Ward was a threat to everyone. That's what I'm referring to.

There is still the possibility of him turning, I agree - at this point I wouldn't be surprised by anyone losing it and turning against their friends. Things are definitely crazy, but I do still see a lot of gray areas. I guess my issue with comparing him to Ward is that I don't think Ward was ever good, he was always a Hydra agent working undercover.

BTW, it makes me laugh that the name of the actor who plays Deke is Jeff Ward. :P

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9 hours ago, Froippi said:

 the only part I dislike was Mack saying we our Shield we our better than that I don’t agree with that statement 

2

You disagree with Mack saying that they are SHIELD and need to better than your average gang of misfits? Well, yes, they are still calling themselves SHIELD but they have never been about saving the world lately but more about their own personal things. 

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, with the reference to New York last week, and the conversation about Thanos this week, it looks like we really will be tying things into Infinity War. Which is awesome, because I hate that the TV stuff has become so separated from the movie stuff, and its not awesome, because 

  Reveal hidden contents

that means the Snapening will be part of the season finale. I bet we get to the end where everyone is solved, everyone is making strides towards getting together again, and then...half the characters turn to dust. End episode and season. Brutal AF. *plays Dust in the Wind* Actually, that sounds kind of heartbreakingly awesome.

So, kind of excited to see where that goes. 

Spoiler

I wonder if Polly (Robin's biological mom) will be a victim of the Snap. Mack seems very likely to get dusted too, maybe Daisy and/or Coulson. I imagine if Talbot loses his wife and/or especially his son, what's left of his mind will snap and he could destroy the planet. And, as much as I enjoy Deke's shenanigans, I kind of hope he gets dusted since the longer he sticks around, it could become more and more likely that he might end producing his own space goon daddy. One should never do the nasty in the pasty!

   

 

Past nastification.jpg

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Can someone stick up for Yo-Yo!?  I'm still in the mind of... Ruby... taking out the killing being revenge on Yo-Yo's part... she (Ruby) was uncontrollable... it was one of those, a line might need to be crossed, no looking back moments. I know social media and the reaction to Yo-Yo's been mentioned so I'm glad I don't follow on social media.

I'm tired of Daisy and Coulson, they better poof... if that route is going to be taken... and with some of this episode references, it is likely, but of course won't be Daisy or Coulson.

While I hate seeing Talbot go fully looney tunes, villain, he sure was the highlight of the episode, with a small side of cheese here and there.

The lemons... loved it... wish I could enjoy Deke as much as I did the lemons.  So, he's obviously poofing, right?

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The notion that SHIELD agents are somehow above killing people who pose threats seems ridiculous on its face. I'm fairly sure every one of our main characters has a pretty high body count

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The episode actually really started strong. Talbot was pretty awesome with his "let's go kick ET's ass!" mentality. And he bust out the Mustache of Authority on the voices which was nice to have confirmed.

However it was disappointing how easily he was manipulated by blueNarcisse. I hate that they wasted whole segments of the season with uselessness and are now rushing where they could have really used some slower character development. 2 episodes is all we have left of the season and maybe the entire series. And I honestly don't know how it could possibly be anything other than a disappointing mess with what we have going on here. 

The interactions for all the other characters were flat. Mack should have had much stronger words for Fitz and Yoyo (about locking him up, not the whole Ruby mess). And why the hell is Jemma getting a pass on this one? Someone should yell at her for many good reasons.

Yoyo should have told Daisy off for thinking she had Ruby under control, which was clearly not happening anywhere other than Daisy's head. Daisy could have had legitimate arguments for the Invincibles about their actions, like going rogue and locking Mack up. But of course we get a continuation of the stupid Ruby was a precious little girl argument. 

That was just get a mess of out-of-character manufactured angst that made no sense. 

Hale is finally dead. So that is a positive at least. 

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15 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

They're the same people who excuse Fitz for what he did. Elena is held to a different standard because she isn't Fitz, or even Deke (who was excused for his actions). The whole fight with Daisy seemed pretty contrived as a means of bringing forth a new conflict to move away from the prior schism that they have no real interest in delving into because it would make Fitz look bad (and Mack's own dressing down of Fitz was pretty tame, all things considered).

People seem to be ignoring that Fitz saved the world by operating on Daisy, or at least the city with thousands of people above them. If he didn't do what he did, the fear dimension would have consumed them all.

I think we have two groups of characters. One group is willing to make the hard choices and do things that need to be done, consequences be damned. The other group is content to live in fantasy land and allow the world to go to hell in order to remain morally pure (whatever the hell that means).

Daisy is insane if she thinks that Ruby wasn't. She was a wild dog that needed to be put down. She LITTERALLY just murdered her boyfriend less than three feet from where Daisy was standing not 30 seconds before? Yo Yo would have been an idiot if she DIDN'T kill Ruby.

Are the choices of group one perfect? Of course not. Those choices led to death and ... well, apparently absolutely no complications for Daisy less than one episode later. Regardless, they are not easy or popular choices, but someone has to make them. Just standing there while people die because you refuse to kill is not a moral choice, it's abetting mass murder.

Edited by Jack Kerouac
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Mack's stupid moralizing, wrapped up in in vague Christianity, bugged the Hell out of me.  SHIELD has always accepted "the good of the many outweigh the good of the few, or the one".  Offing Ruby was the right thing to do -- I just wish she had got her psycho mom too.  At least they're both gone.

WTF was that line about Democrats?  I don't want to start a political fight, so I'll just leave that there.

Spoiler

 

The problem with blinking/dusting any of the Agents, is that the next movie is obviously going to bring back most of the characters.  For example, after the success of Black Panther, I expect T'Challa to be back within the first few minutes.  But that's not going to happen for at least a year or two, quite some time after the end of the next season (if there is one).  Whoever they off will be pretty much permanently gone, with no hope of return.  So they have to pick characters who don't really matter, like Deke.  Otherwise, a whole lot of viewers will be really pissed.

 

 

 

 

On 5/4/2018 at 9:38 PM, sisterspoon said:

And Mack?  Please shut up!  You self righteous, whiny, bad boyfriend!

I cringed at Mack's comments to both Yo-Yo and Fitz.

On 5/5/2018 at 4:06 AM, kitlee625 said:

the rest of the team seems more focused on saving Coulson's life regardless of the costs.

When Daisy told Simmons "You either save Coulson or you're out", I cringed again.  And of course Simmons folded, because saving Coulson (who doesn't want to be saved) is far more important than saving Earth.  Shove it, Daisy.

Edited by jhlipton
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21 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

The anger directed at Yo-Yo also seemed way out of proportion. Her only "crime" is killing Ruby, who was a legitimate threat.

And seeing what is becoming of Talbot only demonstrates further that she did the right thing.  How much worse would Ruby be, since she was morally questionable to begin with?

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17 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

You disagree with Mack saying that they are SHIELD and need to better than your average gang of misfits? Well, yes, they are still calling themselves SHIELD but they have never been about saving the world lately but more about their own personal things. 

Daisy, FitzSimmons, YoYo those four have been doing their own personal stuff and besides if I really wanted to make a point I point out some of Mack stuff he did but I won’t plus they all have made bad choices at some point 

Edited by Froippi

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17 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

It's just another sign that this show isn't well written ...

^This is what I think is causing almost all of my irritation with the show lately. I don't even blame the characters anymore - just the way they are written as square pegs to fit into the round plot  holes points. 
And for most shows that I watch, I do not notice the writing, but it really stands out to me for AoS. It is almost as if I can imagine a group of writers in front of a white board with a label "fill in twenty-two episodes with stuff".  Now General Hale has been written off the board, getting closer to the finish line (but no tears for her, apparently). 
There are just too many repeated patterns in the story arcs.

I get that they are going for a theme of "fractured team" = "fractured planet", but there are a lot of elements that feel forced and not organic to the past stories or character histories. 
I am completely over the team bickering - sometimes intended to the humorous. I am  not interested in The Real Housewives of SHIELD. 

Finally, I want Coulson to stop referring to his team of four couples (basically) as SHIELD.  

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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10 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

People seem to be ignoring that Fitz saved the world by operating on Daisy, or at least the city with thousands of people above them. If he didn't do what he did, the fear dimension would have consumed them all.

No, people simply acknowledge that Fitz didn't even bother trying to speak to Daisy about the matter, and refuse to romanticize his actions in torturing a woman or nearly getting Mack killed because of another one of his dangerous robots. There's a huge difference between acknowledging that Daisy's powers could resolve the crisis with the rift, and constructing dangerous robots that endanger the lives of everyone on the base and torturing a woman because you can't be bothered to talk with her.

10 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

I think we have two groups of characters. One group is willing to make the hard choices and do things that need to be done, consequences be damned. The other group is content to live in fantasy land and allow the world to go to hell in order to remain morally pure (whatever the hell that means).

Fitz had no problem sacrificing the world for Simmons, and so was Simmons when it came to Fitz.

10 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

PDaisy is insane if she thinks that Ruby wasn't. She was a wild dog that needed to be put down. She LITTERALLY just murdered her boyfriend less than three feet from where Daisy was standing not 30 seconds before? Yo Yo would have been an idiot if she DIDN'T kill Ruby.

The entire situation came about because Yo-yo helped Fitz escape his cell, which lead to Fitz and Simmons giving in to Ruby and putting the whole world in danger. Ruby wouldn't have been so dangerous had the Invincible Three not thought that they could act with impunity.

10 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

Are the choices of group one perfect? Of course not. Those choices led to death and ... well, apparently absolutely no complications for Daisy less than one episode later. Regardless, they are not easy or popular choices, but someone has to make them. Just standing there while people die because you refuse to kill is not a moral choice, it's abetting mass murder.

I'd say Fitz and Simmons being willing to sacrifice the whole world for one another is more than an issue of them not being perfect, especially when it flies in the face of Fitz's justification for torturing Daisy or his attempts to contradict Mack (who has suffered quite a great deal because of Fitz's actions) who tries to tell him that the man he's become isn't good.

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:04 PM, Jediknight said:

They mentioned Thanos beginning his attack on Earth.  Holy crap.

Spoilers for Infinity War

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Does this mean that the snap's effects on the team is the cliffhanger?

I'm wondering this too. It kind of makes the storyline in the show kind of pointless. If half the character's disappear that it doesn't matter if they break the timeline or not. Or if they "try" to save Coulson, as they have way bigger problems. Plus I was thinking the avengers could have used their help. I was wondering what the show was going to do about the movie. To be honest I was kind of hoping they were going to ignore it and focus on their own story. At this point the MCU and the tv shows are so far apart.  If anything they could almost do a crossover with the netflix shows.

 

Anyhow, good episode. I was surprised when Telbot took the gardium and became the vilian. kind of makes sense though. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm glad that they've addressed the conflicts between the character's from previous episodes. And I'm glad that Daisy didn't reciprocate Deke's feelings.

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:45 PM, MostlyC said:

If this season ends back where we started in the fall, I will want 22 hours back.

I thought that it would be interesting if they break the timeline and got reset back the the restaurant scene. However, the characters somehow still remember the whole thing.

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7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Mack's stupid moralizing, wrapped up in in vague Christianity, bugged the Hell out of me.  SHIELD has always accepted "the good of the many outweigh the good of the few, or the one".  Offing Ruby was the right thing to do -- I just wish she had got her psycho mom too.  At least they're both gone.

Mack had every right to call Fitz's behavior out. Mack lost Hope for a second time because of AIDA, he was injured protecting Elena from one of Fitz's robots, one of his friends was tortured by Fitz, and Fitz helped encourage Elena's toxic mentality in thinking she's invincible. Fitz effectively destroyed Mack's relationship with Elena. Mack had every right to call out what Fitz has turned into.

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I cringed at Mack's comments to both Yo=Yo and Fitz.

Fitz isn't some child who needs to be coddled, he's a grown man, and he gets to hear criticism when he screws up. As for Elena, the whole ordeal with Ruby came about because she helped Fitz and Simmons. She betrayed Mack to help them, and Fitz is a potential danger to everyone right now. He has a right to be upset about that.

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

When Daisy told Simmons "You either save Coulson or you're out", I cringed again.  And of course Simmons folded, because saving Coulson (who doesn't want to be saved) is far more important than saving Earth.  Shove it, Daisy.

I think you're thinking of May telling that to Elena. Daisy ordered Simmons to investigate the bones of her mother, but May was the one who made it clear to Elena that she needed to leave the base by the time they get back if she wasn't onboard with what they're doing.

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9 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

^This is what I think is causing almost all of my irritation with the show lately. I don't even blame the characters anymore - just the way they are written as square pegs to fit into the round plot  holes points. 
And for most shows that I watch, I do not notice the writing, but it really stands out to me for AoS. It is almost as if I can imagine a group of writers in front of a white board with a label "fill in twenty-two episodes with stuff".  Now General Hale has been written off the board, getting closer to the finish line (but no tears for her, apparently). 
There are just too many repeated patterns in the story arcs.

I get that they are going for a theme of "fractured team" = "fractured planet", but there are a lot of elements that feel forced and not organic to the past stories or character histories. 
I am completely over the team bickering - sometimes intended to the humorous. I am  not interested in The Real Housewives of SHIELD. 

Finally, I want Coulson to stop referring to his team of four couples (basically) as SHIELD.  

3

Honestly,  this show's quality of the writing has always been bad but I didn't really notice it until like the 3rd Season and it just continued to go downhill for me. I don't know why it's so noticeable for me now but, in my opinion, the writing on this show is so awful. Also, it seems that the writing has been forcing a lot of their characters to just fit the plot and/or fit into the new on-demand online ship. I mean I really don't see it in other shows and for some reason, it's so obvious what they are doing to their characters here, and I do not find it to be organic at all. Not to the characters nor to the plot; nothing seems to justify the actions of these characters. It just seems that the writers just want it a certain way and would just force the characters into those round plot holes that you mentioned above and it feels so obvious that they are doing it. I do know that other TV shows that this show competes for viewers do similar things in their writing but it doesn't really bother me that much (or I once believed they did). Shows like The Blacklist, The Flash, Arrow, etc... are not really that great but I seem to have a funnier time watching them than this show. This show has been purely an "it's part of the MCU and I must watch it" type deal for me as of late and now I am leaning towards, "it's probably not in the MCU at all" theory. I used to like some of the  main characters and/or I can see reasons why they may  act in the way they did (at certain times) but overall, it seems like the writing was going to set up a subversion and then just backed tracked into what was expected (like setting up Simmons with a new boyfriend and then just have a reveal that the boyfriend died off screen so Simmons can do the expected and hook up with Fitz. That was the most obvious person they were going to hook Simmons up with Fitz in the earlier episodes but since it was such an obvious choice to make (in the terms of writing) and also the fact that they had Simmons go to such a length to avoid hooking up with Fitz is just felt so inorganic when suddenly she wanted to be with Fitz. Another example was Ward. First, he was a good guy, then he was the bad guy, then I guess we were supposed to assume  we had to pity him, then he became that bad guy again, then he died, they kept the actor around playing Hive, then he came back in the Framework as some kind of pitty character and used his victims to make him look good (in the Framework) while keeping pretty much every other established villains as established villains in the Framework).

 

Like you can I just picture the writers going on a whiteboard and saying, "okay so we need filler for the next 2-3 episodes. So we are going to have Simmons break out Fitz out of prison. Then they will think that they are invincible. Then they will get captured by Ruby and they will be so scared because Ruby is such a great villain. Also, Ruby will force them to fix the machine that they broke and then Ruby will get the powers of Gravitorium BUT then the twist will be that Yo-Yo comes in and saves the day....."

Sometimes I wonder if they are just writing for the shits and giggles since nothing really matters anyhow on this show. No actions matter unless it will positively affect the main characters and any new characters and/or reoccurring characters just get written off the show- mostly by killing them off. Any persons that were killed thanks to these characters will not really matter. Anything that was destroyed like SHIELD will not matter to these characters. They may be criminals on the run but the twist is that they are actually "innocent" because the writers say so. Oh, they may have a moment where the main characters go, "I have done many bad things but I do them for the right reasons...." or such and that will be the writings way out of any criticism of the show/writing, IMO. Or they will bring up past characters/events that they even seem to not bother with for seasons but it gets brought up because the writers feel like they want the viewers to be reminded of it before it again gets dropped and forgotten about. 

 

Quote

This is what I think is causing almost all of my irritation with the show lately. I don't even blame the characters anymore - just the way they are written as square pegs to fit into the round plot  holes points. 

I see what you did there.

 

9 hours ago, Froippi said:

Daisy, FitzSimmons, YoYo those four have been doing their own personal stuff and besides if I really wanted to make a point I point out some of Mack stuff he did but I won’t plus they all have made bad choices at some point 

 

Fitz/Simmons and Yo-Yo both teamed up (as the "Invincibles") and went out to a Hydra facility in England to stop the world from ending and all they really did was break a machine, and Fitz Simmons was captured and they end up fixing the same machine that gave Ruby massive powers. Yo-Yo had to kill her. I blame the writing but honestly, Daisy has (so far) been acting much better than those three, at least for the second half of this season. Fitz this entire season has been acting like a dumbass and I would rather see both him and Simmons (along with Deke) being killed

Spoiler

 or dusted by Thanos

, by the end of this season. I just can't stand either Fitz and Simmons. They are totally ruined as characters. Their actions have literally (now) put the world in danger because they are such idiots and started the entire chain of events into motion. Now, I don't blame Yo-Yo when it came to killing Ruby and why the fuck everyone is hating on her when it's really Fitz and Simmons' fault I have no idea. I am just tired of the fact that the writing would have these characters do/cause these events and don't take responsibility/actually show the (logical) fallout for them. 

7 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I think you're thinking of May telling that to Elena. Daisy ordered Simmons to investigate the bones of her mother, but May was the one who made it clear to Elena that she needed to leave the base by the time they get back if she wasn't onboard with what they're doing.

 

Why can't they have May tell this to Simmons? I am just tired of both Fitz and Simmons getting away with the shit that they clearly caused on this show. Also, they pulled something similar in Season 4 when it came to the LMDs and look at what happened. Why are the both of them being so trusted by everyone at SHIELD? Why hasn't anyone locked Simmons up in a cell for all of the shit she has caused of late? Clearly, SHIELD has a team of redshirts so why can't they have a team of unnamed/faceless lab workers/doctors who are not named Simmons?

9 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

No, people simply acknowledge that Fitz didn't even bother trying to speak to Daisy about the matter, and refuse to romanticize his actions in torturing a woman or nearly getting Mack killed because of another one of his dangerous robots. There's a huge difference between acknowledging that Daisy's powers could resolve the crisis with the rift, and constructing dangerous robots that endanger the lives of everyone on the base and torturing a woman because you can't be bothered to talk with her.

Fitz had no problem sacrificing the world for Simmons, and so was Simmons when it came to Fitz.

The entire situation came about because Yo-yo helped Fitz escape his cell, which lead to Fitz and Simmons giving in to Ruby and putting the whole world in danger. Ruby wouldn't have been so dangerous had the Invincible Three not thought that they could act with impunity.

I'd say Fitz and Simmons being willing to sacrifice the whole world for one another is more than an issue of them not being perfect, especially when it flies in the face of Fitz's justification for torturing Daisy or his attempts to contradict Mack (who has suffered quite a great deal because of Fitz's actions) who tries to tell him that the man he's become isn't good.

At one point in the entire show they had Simmons ready to leave someone (who she thought was alive at the time) and ealier claimed to have loved, on another planet but when it comes to Fitz, this characterization gets thrown out the window. 

Edited by TVSpectator
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58 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Honestly,  this show's quality of the writing has always been bad but I didn't really notice it until like the 3rd Season and it just continued to go downhill for me. I don't know why it's so noticeable for me now but, in my opinion, the writing on this show is so awful. Also, it seems that the writing has been forcing a lot of their characters to just fit the plot and/or fit into the new on-demand online ship. I mean I really don't see it in other shows and for some reason, it's so obvious what they are doing to their characters here, and I do not find it to be organic at all. Not to the characters nor to the plot; nothing seems to justify the actions of these characters. It just seems that the writers just want it a certain way and would just force the characters into those round plot holes that you mentioned above and it feels so obvious that they are doing it. I do know that other TV shows that this show competes for viewers do similar things in their writing but it doesn't really bother me that much (or I once believed they did). Shows like The Blacklist, The Flash, Arrow, etc... are not really that great but I seem to have a funnier time watching them than this show. This show has been purely an "it's part of the MCU and I must watch it" type deal for me as of late and now I am leaning towards, "it's probably not in the MCU at all" theory. I used to like some of the  main characters and/or I can see reasons why they may  act in the way they did (at certain times) but overall, it seems like the writing was going to set up a subversion and then just backed tracked into what was expected (like setting up Simmons with a new boyfriend and then just have a reveal that the boyfriend died off screen so Simmons can do the expected and hook up with Fitz. That was the most obvious person they were going to hook Simmons up with Fitz in the earlier episodes but since it was such an obvious choice to make (in the terms of writing) and also the fact that they had Simmons go to such a length to avoid hooking up with Fitz is just felt so inorganic when suddenly she wanted to be with Fitz. Another example was Ward. First, he was a good guy, then he was the bad guy, then I guess we were supposed to assume  we had to pity him, then he became that bad guy again, then he died, they kept the actor around playing Hive, then he came back in the Framework as some kind of pitty character and used his victims to make him look good (in the Framework) while keeping pretty much every other established villains as established villains in the Framework).

 

Like you can I just picture the writers going on a whiteboard and saying, "okay so we need filler for the next 2-3 episodes. So we are going to have Simmons break out Fitz out of prison. Then they will think that they are invincible. Then they will get captured by Ruby and they will be so scared because Ruby is such a great villain. Also, Ruby will force them to fix the machine that they broke and then Ruby will get the powers of Gravitorium BUT then the twist will be that Yo-Yo comes in and saves the day....."

Sometimes I wonder if they are just writing for the shits and giggles since nothing really matters anyhow on this show. No actions matter unless it will positively affect the main characters and any new characters and/or reoccurring characters just get written off the show- mostly by killing them off. Any persons that were killed thanks to these characters will not really matter. Anything that was destroyed like SHIELD will not matter to these characters. They may be criminals on the run but the twist is that they are actually "innocent" because the writers say so. Oh, they may have a moment where the main characters go, "I have done many bad things but I do them for the right reasons...." or such and that will be the writings way out of any criticism of the show/writing, IMO. Or they will bring up past characters/events that they even seem to not bother with for seasons but it gets brought up because the writers feel like they want the viewers to be reminded of it before it again gets dropped and forgotten about. 

 

I see what you did there.

 

Fitz/Simmons and Yo-Yo both teamed up (as the "Invincibles") and went out to a Hydra facility in England to stop the world from ending and all they really did was break a machine, and Fitz Simmons was captured and they end up fixing the same machine that gave Ruby massive powers. Yo-Yo had to kill her. I blame the writing but honestly, Daisy has (so far) been acting much better than those three, at least for the second half of this season. Fitz this entire season has been acting like a dumbass and I would rather see both him and Simmons (along with Deke) being killed

  Hide contents

 or dusted by Thanos

, by the end of this season. I just can't stand either Fitz and Simmons. They are totally ruined as characters. Their actions have literally (now) put the world in danger because they are such idiots and started the entire chain of events into motion. Now, I don't blame Yo-Yo when it came to killing Ruby and why the fuck everyone is hating on her when it's really Fitz and Simmons' fault I have no idea. I am just tired of the fact that the writing would have these characters do/cause these events and don't take responsibility/actually show the (logical) fallout for them. 

Why can't they have May tell this to Simmons? I am just tired of both Fitz and Simmons getting away with the shit that they clearly caused on this show. Also, they pulled something similar in Season 4 when it came to the LMDs and look at what happened. Why are the both of them being so trusted by everyone at SHIELD? Why hasn't anyone locked Simmons up in a cell for all of the shit she has caused of late? Clearly, SHIELD has a team of redshirts so why can't they have a team of unnamed/faceless lab workers/doctors who are not named Simmons?

At one point in the entire show they had Simmons ready to leave someone (who she thought was alive at the time) and ealier claimed to have loved, on another planet but when it comes to Fitz, this characterization gets thrown out the window. 

 

Just to clear this up I never blame YoYo or gave her hate for it I actually believe what YoYo did was the right decision

 

not sure trying to save Coulson should be the top priority right now either though 

 

starting to look like Daisy going to the alien ship might have consequences since House of Kasius has her now

Edited by Froippi
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