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Lost In Transition

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Troy is still pissed that Cindy doesn't appreciate him revealing his true feelings to her, which is what he seems to have been expecting!  (And now he'll never let anyone know him again!  Way to teach the world a lesson buddy.) 

Noted: Cindy didn't say SHE could never trust anyone again...even though her partner was hiding a huge secret for 13 years and then pulled the rug out from under her.

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On 6/19/2018 at 1:00 PM, TattooFan said:

Princelina and IvySpice, I would like your posts 1000 times if I could!

I started out having a lot of compassion for Leslie, but once I started seeing that the support and nurturing and empathy was all coming from Stacy, I started disliking Leslie.  When Stacy arranged the anniversary surprise manicure for Leslie, did Leslie do something nice for Stacy, or did she complain that she only got gel nails instead of acrylic?  

P.S.  I don't even know the difference between gel and acrylic nails.

I didn't see this as Leslie complaining that she got gel rather than acrylic.  It seemed to be the answer to a question.  She then joked about her nails being so strong she was using them to open shell casings (or something along those lines at work).  Given that she was smiling and laughing about it, it seemed to me she was enjoying the gel nails.  

On 6/19/2018 at 5:40 AM, princelina said:

From what we have seen I don't think they did - Troy is still pissed that Cindy doesn't appreciate him revealing his true feelings to her, which is what he seems to have been expecting!  (And now he'll never let anyone know him again!  Way to teach the world a lesson buddy.)  And Leslie's timing couldn't have been worse.  I don't think it's a negative for a transgender person who chose to get married and have children (or enter a long-term, committed relationship, as the case may be) to have a think about how their coming out will affect their loved ones, and I'm sure there have to be people who do, but we have seen nothing of that on this show.

 

Troy/Lucy is a jackass regardless of gender.  She has shown no compassion at all toward her partner. 

For some of the other people, I see at least some hints of concern about how this is affecting their families.  As always with reality shows, things are skewed, in this case toward the steps of transition.  It seemed like Leslie and Stacy were having a nice weekend away, but the show had to focus on the person calling Leslie a man at the nail salon.  And that would make her uncomfortable.  Since we don't get to see that much else, that becomes the story of the nail salon rather than how much they were enjoying themselves.  In the tub scene (oh, sweet Jesus, reality shows, stop putting couples in bubble baths!  No one is relaxing with a camera crew in the bathroom with them.  I still have night terrors from Tamra and Eddie on RHOC.), I would say the couple was happy.  

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I've been waiting so long to weigh in here but needed my password reset. 

I like this show and I think it's an interesting glimpse into a challenging reality for trans people. Like many of you have said, I find myself frustrated by a lot of the "cast members" but then I try to remember that they are flawed humans, just like the rest of us. It's interesting to me that they only chose people in relationships. I suppose that's the premise but I would be interested to see someone going it alone, too. 

Anyway, I was so impressed by Stacy and Leslie in the beginning but now I'm finding myself getting angry with Leslie and feeling sorry for Stacy. Having a pregnant partner is no joke and Stacy could really use some nurturing and support. She's giving it to Leslie tenfold and it doesn't appear she's getting anything in return. My jaw hit the floor when Leslie suggested Stacy work more hours. Stacy is weeks away from giving birth, now is when she should be cutting back and Leslie should pick up some slack! I think their dynamic is a stark contrast to Jennifer and Lawren. Lawren's pain is so raw and it's obvious some of that pain is because of how she feels her transition is affecting Jennifer and their family. Leslie is coming across as self-centered and oblivious.   

I think taking a break is the best thing for Cindy and Troy/Lucy. It's very clear Cindy doesn't want to be in a relationship with a woman and Troy/Lucy seems in the early stages of being comfortable living as Lucy. I think they are hiding a bit behind Cindy and it would probably be good for them to be independent and sort things out.

Beverly and Karen are a giant pile of dysfunction. I have trouble liking either one of them to be honest. Karen lost me when she shut Beverly down at the table with the real estate agent. I did think her speech at the museum was touching but there is something about her that feels emotionally detached. It may be a survival mechanism for her, I don't know. I did feel terrible watching her talk about her "conversion therapy". Cas was clearly uncomfortable around Beverly. There is a lot more to that than we've been privy to. Cas seems like a well-adjusted kid. I would actually like to know more of their story!  

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18 hours ago, Bunky said:

Cas was clearly uncomfortable around Beverly. There is a lot more to that than we've been privy to. Cas seems like a well-adjusted kid. I would actually like to know more of their story!  

Yes. Bev has done SOMETHING to illicit this reaction out of Cas. I don’t want to project, but perhaps growing up Beverly saw Cas as the girl that BEVERLY wanted to be (I see this a lot with Moms who have low self esteem, if they have a daughter that has the traits they always wanted they live vicariously through that child). With Cas’ petite stature and pixie features I can see Beverly forcing strict traditional gender roles on Cas, and Cas being gender fluid or questioning, Bev may have seen that as a rejection of Bev’s parenting.....of course I wasn’t there but I contend something happened. 

Edited by Scarlett45 · Reason: Cas is not a her, my apologizes.
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15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. Bev has done SOMETHING to illicit this reaction out of Cas. I don’t want to project, but perhaps growing up Beverly saw Cas as the girl that BEVERLY wanted to be (I see this a lot with Moms who have low self esteem, if they have a daughter that has the traits they always wanted they live vicariously through that child). With Cas’ petite stature and pixie features I can see Beverly forcing strict traditional gender roles on Cas, and Cas being gender fluid or questioning, Bev may have seen that as a rejection of Bev’s parenting.....of course I wasn’t there but I contend something happened. 

 

I also got the feeling that there was an "us vs them" mentality in that house (Karen and Cas vs. Bev - unsure about other daughter, although I think she sympathizes with Bev now).  I doubt they were even aware of it but still.

Also:  I don't see Cas as a well adjusted kid at all.  (Autocorrect changed my first Cas to "Was", the second one to "Gas" and the one in this sentence to "Car" :D)

Edited by princelina
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On 6/18/2018 at 12:08 AM, DVDFreaker said:

I do not understand how Leslie lost her job? What exactly does she do at her job? I feel sorry for Stacy and Leslie when diaster keeps happening and their financial situation is not good

well, I feel sorry for Stacy.  

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On 6/21/2018 at 9:51 AM, Kid said:

Amen.  I have profound sympathy for Stacy.  Absolutely NO ONE is looking out for her including her.  She basically has THREE children to support.  I have lost all sympathy for Leslie.  Once you have children, it is not about you any more.  Stacy gets that, Leslie does not.  

yours is the perfect comment, in my opinion.  It's NOT about yourself when you're a spouse and especially a parent...it's about your family.   My dad really didn't want to do what he did for decades...his AUTHENTIC self was a fisherman.  Can't feed your family on that!  My authentic self is rich and retired...yep, not happening yet.  We don't just get to "be" whoever we want come hell or high water.  

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Episode description from TVGuide.com

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Stacy and Leslie face potentially dangerous health issues while preparing for their child's birth. Beverly, Karen, and Cas experience an emotionally explosive therapy session. Cindy and Troy try to make their relationship work.

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On 6/18/2018 at 8:20 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I feel so bad for Stacy.  Did I hear one of them say  Stacy would have to pick up more hours of work?   She's pregnant and due to deliver in the month!  Her face about hit the ground.

That was it for me. Leslie's selfishness has turned me completely off to her. It's all about her, not the strain on the family, not the fact that a baby is coming, it's all about Leslie's needs and wants. It is as though the years or torment she had before coming out have to be made up for now by allowing her to do whatever she wants, whenever she wants. 

On 6/19/2018 at 3:34 AM, GoldaVining said:

My husband wouldn't notice if I grew antlers, but I do keep my hair long so folks don't think I'm his brother.

However, while Leslie is looking good, Leslie made a jerk move commenting that maybe Stacey needs to pick up more hours at her job/go back to work quickly after delivery. Stacey is working, third-trimester pregnant, with a toddler at home, supporting Leslie's transition. How much more should she do? Stacey might just drop if you put one more thing on her plate. Good god.

LOL @ antlers. Again, Leslie believes she is the centerpiece of the house and needs to be catered to. Leslie can go out and pick up cans to feed her family if that is what she has to do. Was Leslie working full time? What about health insurance for the birth of the baby if Leslie got fired? They should have unemployment coming in and hopefully Medicaid or they will be pushed into a hole that they may never get out of. No income but a few bucks in unemployment should qualify them for food stamps and perhaps housing assistance, no?

That drives me nuts about shows that present people losing jobs. It's just, "I got fired," and they look all sad and wonder how they are going to survive, but they never mention qualifying for some type of social services assistance so the viewers are left wondering how the hell they can pay for their monthly necessaries with zero income. I know they get paid by the show but this is supposed to be a depiction of 'real life' and they should show the viewers who may be in similar circumstances but don't have a paycheck from the show to save them what the deal is.

:: turns in her Team Leslie and Stacy jersey for just a Team Stacy jersey ::

Edited by configdotsys · Reason: clarity
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I wonder what Leslie was like as a husband and how much that dynamic has changed since transitioning or if it has. Stacey is extremely supportive and giving toward this relationship.  The small amount we have seen of their life, she is shown to be the social arranger ie the party, the one who arranged the getaway, also she is seen tending to the toddler and she is working and pregnant.  I feel she is so over burdened with all that is going on her life currently and the future for them just seems so daunting with two babies, unemployment and him wanting facial surgery etc.  If a relationship isn’t reciprocal whether it be friends or a marriage it’s simply not going to work in the long run.  I really hope they start showing       Leslie in a more supportive role here too.

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So uh why was Cas needed at their parents' therapy session? Is it just to showcase how offputting and kinda mean their mother is?

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1 hour ago, KBrownie said:

Cas was annoying.

I thought so too.  They were in a therapy session.  Beverly was in the middle of sharing.  Interrupting her with a "correction" at that moment does come off as a judgment.  Perhaps it's necessary that someone reinforce the correct pronoun with Bev but I don't think it was Cas's place. Karen was there and more than able to assert herself. 

And Karen not realizing how tough it is on Bev?  Really?  Giving her grief for going out?  Reallllly?  But Beverly, it's time to figure out what your budget is.  Women typically don't come out of a divorce better off and while Karen will also be a woman, she's going to have the fiscal advantages of her time as a man.

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I'm about to lose my mind listening to human-sad-trombone Leslie and her escalating tale tales of having breast cancer. 

I don't know if each of these couples have different producers but the producers on Stacey and Leslie have a serious fascination with medical drama.  There's the Leslie drama which is going to go over three episodes, at least.  I'm not denying that it's probably scary but there's so much "it doesn't happen that way" with her medical story.  But now we've got Stacey going on and on about stillbirths and contractions stopping the baby's heart.  Again, it can be a dangerous thing but they're are really upping the drama will "turn the cameras off" and the producers unable to get information (well duh---HIPAA laws) and all the focusing on the Emergency signs when, in all likelihood, she went straight to the OBGYN department.

Troy/Lucy is kind of interesting to me because of how uncertain Troy seems to be about whether or not transitioning will bring happiness.  Troy/Lucy is in a different stage compared to the other couples where there seems to be no doubt...about transitioning at least.

Edited by Irlandesa
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I live in the same town as Leslie and Stacey. If it's like what my mom went through when she had something suspicious going on with her breast, they did the mammogram, ultrasound, and then a biopsy. They found the cells in the biopsy. We do have a pretty good facility here for mammograms, etc. I missed Stacey in the ER, we had a big lightning and thunder storm all of a sudden. I'm not happy with how they portray my town. They said most people here wouldn't even know what transgender means. That is so wrong. We have had the Esprit Convention, one of the nation's leading transgender conferences, here for many, many years. 

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7 hours ago, PupCal said:

So uh why was Cas needed at their parents' therapy session? Is it just to showcase how offputting and kinda mean their mother is?

Cas' presence at that session was totally unneeded. Cas didn't add anything to the conversation (of course that we saw) when dealing with the issues within the marriage. Then again, I don't think children have a place at the table when it comes to discussing their parent's marriage—as that contract is between the two of them. From the interaction that we did see, all I knew was that family was deeply, deeply, f-ed up. 

3 hours ago, Goodie said:

I live in the same town as Leslie and Stacey. If it's like what my mom went through when she had something suspicious going on with her breast, they did the mammogram, ultrasound, and then a biopsy. They found the cells in the biopsy. We do have a pretty good facility here for mammograms, etc.

I'm sure it does! It seems, however, from the way it was presented on the show, that Leslie has cancer and they're moving in a Point-B-to-Point-A manner to let us know she doesn't. I've been through scares many times in the past and know that a biopsy is the only way to see abnormal cellular activity and that whatever was visualized on a mammogram and ultrasound was what the doctor should have been telling her on the phone—not that they found "abnormal cells" when no biopsy was performed. 

 

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But now we've got Stacey going on and on about stillbirths and contractions stopping the baby's heart.  Again, it can be a dangerous thing but they're are really upping the drama will "turn the cameras off" and the producers unable to get information (well duh---HIPAA laws) and all the focusing on the Emergency signs when, in all likelihood, she went straight to the OBGYN department.

God, yes to all this. And to drag matters out even more, it appears that Leslie and Stacy aren't even appearing on next week's episode. They're gonna drag their non-existent medical dramas out for the rest of the season. It wouldn't surprise me if the season ended with the biopsy results (if they ever even get to that) being withheld until S2. I have half a mind to believe that while Leslie maybe did have bilateral nipple bleeding, that it occurred long before TLC showed up at her door and all we are seeing now is a sloppy recreation of some events that went down.

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my nitpick - Leslie is not getting hormone replacement therapy, as they are not REPLACING what was previously there.  It is hormone therapy.  IDK, maybe she likes saying HRT because it is what some women do need, but - again - it is replacing nothing. 

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I get that pronouns are important, but Cas was annoying. Jesus Christ, your mother is sitting there crying and in real pain--have a little compassion. It was Karen's place to address the pronoun situation, anyway.

Beverly is having a hard time with all of this--her child and her spouse transitioning, divorcing, selling the house and moving--cut her some slack. She does have her own issues, so perhaps she should go to therapy by herself so that she can freely express herself and come to terms with these huge changes in her life.

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"I'm not judging, I'm correcting..." STFU, you obnoxious twit.  I felt so bad for Beverly in that moment, stuck sitting there between those two self-absorbed jackasses.

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8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought so too.  They were in a therapy session.  Beverly was in the middle of sharing.  Interrupting her with a "correction" at that moment does come off as a judgment.  Perhaps it's necessary that someone reinforce the correct pronoun with Bev but I don't think it was Cas's place. Karen was there and more than able to assert herself. 

I don't see that it is necessary - Karen was her husband for many years, after all.  Every memory she has is not going to change just because Karen has.  Just like the other daughter refused "correction" from the producer last week - it's still her dad.

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It seems to me that Beverly doesn't have the capacity to explain what she is feeling regarding this devastating turn of events in her family.  She is the proverbial deer in headlights.

This HAS to be insanely painful.  And you know what, she has every right to feel hurt and confused and not necessarily accept this immediately.  Her entire world has collapsed, and she has to start over again.  Not fair.

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I'm just starting to watch this and Stacey's cholestasis of pregnancy immediately caught my attention because I had the same thing!!!! And I NEVER hear about it in media.  I am SO relieved that the midwife knew what it is instead of just saying "pregnant women have itchy skin from stretching" as my asshole doctor said.  Also, if her mom "almost" bled to death during a hospital delivery, I am thinking she surely would have bled to death with a home birth.  

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so now I'm watching Karen and Bev (right names?).  Anyway, I don't understand why people don't like Bev on this board.  To me she seems very, very destroyed by the dissolution of her marriage.  Strikes me as the type of person who put everyone else first, tried to be a "good girl" but finally just crumbled.  And Karen (AJ?), yes, apparently she was married to the wrong person for 22 years since she wanted to be married forever.  As for why Cas was there, I have closed captioning on so maybe it is easier to catch, but the reason for the therapy session was to try to get better communication for all of them, Cas included.  

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11 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Cas was annoying.   Cas and Karen were not helping the situation at all in that therapy session.  It's like they want Beverly to just take all the fault for their situation and because they are the ones who are transitioning, she should just take all their issues and deal with them perfectly.  It's an unrealistic expectation to have.  Cas especially seems to want to use this to get back at Beverly for whatever she did when Cas transitioned.

I found it telling that Hayley chose not to participate.  Between Cas and her father, she has probably been getting zero attention and consideration in that household.

I don't know, Karen rubs me the wrong way.  Beverly isn't perfect by any means, but I don't think she's doing anything deliberately.  Everything about Cas just seems like an intentional act of aggression.  Not healthy at all.  

Karen is all about Karen's big coming out parade. She can't see anything else. She's so giddy that she can finally live her truth she doesn't give a shit about anyone else, including long suffering Beverly, whose whole world has collapsed. No one can spare a kind word for her. Except Hayley--they've been shown to be close and Hayley's been supportive of her mother. If Cas was there then Hayley should have been too. Beverly needed someone in her corner.

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought so too.  They were in a therapy session.  Beverly was in the middle of sharing.  Interrupting her with a "correction" at that moment does come off as a judgment.  Perhaps it's necessary that someone reinforce the correct pronoun with Bev but I don't think it was Cas's place. Karen was there and more than able to assert herself. 

And Karen not realizing how tough it is on Bev?  Really?  Giving her grief for going out?  Reallllly?  But Beverly, it's time to figure out what your budget is.  Women typically don't come out of a divorce better off and while Karen will also be a woman, she's going to have the fiscal advantages of her time as a man.

I don't know if each of these couples have different producers but the producers on Stacey and Leslie have a serious fascination with medical drama.  There's the Leslie drama which is going to go over three episodes, at least.  I'm not denying that it's probably scary but there's so much "it doesn't happen that way" with her medical story.  But now we've got Stacey going on and on about stillbirths and contractions stopping the baby's heart.  Again, it can be a dangerous thing but they're are really upping the drama will "turn the cameras off" and the producers unable to get information (well duh---HIPAA laws) and all the focusing on the Emergency signs when, in all likelihood, she went straight to the OBGYN department.

Troy/Lucy is kind of interesting to me because of how uncertain Troy seems to be about whether or not transitioning will bring happiness.  Troy/Lucy is in a different stage compared to the other couples where there seems to be no doubt...about transitioning at least.

Cas was utterly insufferable. That was so unnecessary. Cas is just one seething ball of rage and resentment. Beverly is not perfect, far from it, the woman is a mess and has probably been insensitive and unkind to Cas. But you would have to be made of stone not to feel something for Beverly's pain, her bewilderment, her sense of loss and being utterly unmoored.  Karen is moving to a nice apartment complex with a pool and a gym. Beverly is looking at crappy flats on the wrong side of the tracks. Beverly is losing everything. Karen could spare a goddamn kind word. And Cas could shut up.

This is really taking a toll on the wives. And they all believe that their feelings and needs should be put second, because their transitioning partner is hoovering up all the psychic energy in the room. Its exhausting.

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28 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I'm just starting to watch this and Stacey's cholestasis of pregnancy immediately caught my attention because I had the same thing!!!! And I NEVER hear about it in media.  I am SO relieved that the midwife knew what it is instead of just saying "pregnant women have itchy skin from stretching" as my asshole doctor said.  Also, if her mom "almost" bled to death during a hospital delivery, I am thinking she surely would have bled to death with a home birth.  

This! If my mom had almost bled to death during delivery, that would make me want to deliver in the hospital even more seeing as how she would have died doing a home birth. That made no sense to me

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Gosh I can't remember all their names but they all seem to have a boatload of problems!  Wow!!!

The pregnant gal is so sweet but she surely doesn't have much support.  I did notice her husband was hustling, in the rain, to get the car packed for the hospital.

The older couple love their sex and are very affectionate.  Strange he wants to transition.  He seems so happy being the male partner.

The couple with the transitioning daughter seem so out of touch with each other and their daughter.

This is all so very strange to me.  Having a time figuring it all out.

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17 hours ago, PupCal said:

So uh why was Cas needed at their parents' therapy session? Is it just to showcase how offputting and kinda mean their mother is?

Idk but I was glad Beverly put him in his place. It’s not for anyone to tell Beverly how to feel or deal with the end of her marriage  (so long as it doesn’t truly hurt anyone else). She didn’t ask for any of this and IMO, she’s not even dealing with it in a constructive way. And she may have been a shit mom, who knows, but cut her some slack.  

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Agree on all above posts (which is unusual). My heart hurts for Beverly. Karen has had yeeeaaarrrsss to mentally see herself as a woman and I'm thrilled she can now be her true authentic self. That being said, Beverly can't verbalize her concerns, her fears, or her feelings so she jokes though her pain. Some one on one counseling for her would be a great step. She doesn't need Karen or correcting Cas, she needs individual therapy to help her with her thoughts and fears and feelings. And it probably wouldn't hurt if she laid off the booze for a few weeks.

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On 6/19/2018 at 7:40 AM, princelina said:

 

I really dislike Leslie after this episode.  I doubt that she has adopted this sad sack, passive-aggressive personae since coming out - I think Stacey has been a mother since high school, and her neediest child will always be her former high school boyfriend.  Upon getting fired:  "I guess I'll have to get another job that pays better . . . or YOU will."  And then off to the hospital:  "Now that my health is deteriorating . . "  What?  For Leslie's information, my beautiful 37 year old sister lost her 2 breasts that she has had for 20+ years in May, and she continues to be her "authentic self" as a flat chested woman with no time for self-pitying navel gazing because she is too busy enjoying being cancer free and being there with/for her spouse and child.  Sheesh.  Also Leslie, if you want a smaller forehead you don't need thousands of dollars of plastic surgery - do what the rest of us do and go to Supercuts and spend $10 on bangs.

 

 

I am so glad to find a place to discuss this show!  It is interesting...

I am SO with you on Leslie.  If I was Stacey, I would be like - here is the deal.  We are already poor, and we have a kid on the way.  You will have to wait to transition.  You have waited this long, let's pump the breaks.  I don't know why she needed to present as female at her job SO soon.  In fact, I am a woman and if I worked at a gun shop, I would just wear a hoodie, jeans and no makeup.  I don't know why she needed all the fancy dress-up.   I get it, she wants to wear the clothes she has been wanting to wear for so long.  

I would never begrudge someone their true self, but sometimes you have to play the game.  I work in an office, and I would like to wear sweats all day.  That is my authentic self.  But my work insists I have a certain look, and I want to make money here, so I do as I am told.  Leslie should have sucked it up and played the game while at work, at least as long as it took to either find another job where she could wear what she wants, or until the baby came and everyone was settled, and money was better.  I just do not understand the need to risk everything RIGHT THEN.  Just wait a bit, it will all work out.

Edited by heatherchandler
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I'm of two minds on Beverly.  In an earlier episode she mentioned that she only recently started forming a better relationship with the daughter that wasn't shown in this episode.  It seemed like neither of Beverly's children respected her as a parent.  She and her daughter are now aligned in how uncomfortable they are with Karen's transition.  Her other child, Cas, has aligned with Karen and still has issues with Beverly.  This family has an incredibly unhealthy dynamic.

Beverly has never referred to Karen as Karen or she.  I absolutely understand her saying she had a life with her husband and her memories are related to a husband and wife relationship with what she had every reason to believe was a man.  She has 22 years that are now called into question. She cannot be expected to change overnight.  However, she is also not willing to try, as I suspect she was not very willing to try to understand Cas.  

At the same time, Karen is an ass.  Again, regardless of gender, a jerk is a jerk.  Karen is a jerk.  We saw it with the realtor.  We see it every episode.  Karen seems like she was a controlling husband who left little room for anyone else's opinion.  She still wants to control other people's thoughts and feelings.  She never should have been doing that in the first place.  She certainly loses any expectation of that during a divorce.  

Beverly seems to have been a victim throughout this relationship.  She also seems to have, to some extent, used her victimhood as a means of martyrdom for which she expects some level of affirmation.  With the dissolution of her marriage, she is now realizing she was just a victim.  She was treated terribly by her husband.  She did not have a good relationship with her children.  As often happens, they may have blamed her for not standing up to him more.  Bev's friend seems glad she will be getting out of the marriage.  

If Karen was a decent person and a caring spouse, she would have expressed concern for Bev's late nights, especially if she feels Bev is potentially using alcohol to deal with her issues.  Instead she went with "I don't like you staying out late".  Why?  Is Karen embarrassed?  Is it affecting her sleep? It certainly didn't sound like concern for Bev's well-being. 

I feel sorry for Bev but I also find her annoying.  She is in a terrible situation.  She also needs to take some control of her own life.  She needs to figure out her finances. She needs to stand up for herself.  It has to be hard having been AJ/Karen's doormat for all these years.  If she can't get it together herself, I hope her friends and daughter can help her through this.  Otherwise she is easy prey for another jackass who will treat her terribly.  

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3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I am so glad to find a place to discuss this show!  It is interesting...

I am SO with you on Leslie.  If I was Stacey, I would be like - here is the deal.  We are already poor, and we have a kid on the way.  You will have to wait to transition.  You have waited this long, let's pump the breaks.  I don't know why she needed to present as female at her job SO soon.  In fact, I am a woman and if I worked at a gun shop, I would just wear a hoodie, jeans and no makeup.  I don't know why she needed all the fancy dress-up.   I get it, she wants to wear the clothes she has been wanting to wear for so long. 

 

I wonder if all of this is due to the timing of the show. I am firmly convinced that Stacey and Leslie signed up to be on this show for the money.  I'm guessing the producers said ok, here's our production schedule, and they felt they had to go along with it. I'd like to give Leslie the benefit of the doubt in terms of why she needs to fully transition while her wife is so close to giving birth, and that is the only reason I can think of that would explain all these shenanigans. 

I also wonder if any attorneys have reached out to her about her job loss. I'm thinking a small business would not want the publicity of firing a transgender person in the current political climate we are in.... and for that reason, they might change their mind if faced with legal pressure.

Edited by ChristmasJones
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Wow, this show is tough. I feel sympathy for all.  Lucy/Troy and Cindy...something is just off there, but maybe they are in fact the most realistic couple on the show. Lucy/Troy seems to be very attracted to Cindy and vice versa. I wondered if maybe Lucy/Troy would be okay with cross-dressing and nothing further.  Same for Cindy.

A transgender woman came to speak at a lunch at my work a few years ago.  This is obviously one person's opinion, but she was married with children and they stayed married.  I remember her saying that transitioning is really expensive, but that the only reason someone wouldn't fully transition was due to the cost.  If money wasn't the issue, someone who was transgender would always go all the way.  I wonder if that is really true? 

She also said that certain aspects of being a 'man' stuck with her, such as speaking up more at work regarding salary, assignments, etc.  

Again, this was one person's opinion.  For the record, I personally believe that being transgender is something that occurs biologically.  No 'choice' involved. I do wonder a lot about 'male/female' roles in a relationship, though, and although society sees these roles evolving among straight, cis-gender couples, sometimes it seems like LGBTQ relationships struggle with this dynamic. Just my opinion. I do find it interesting to have both younger and older couples featured on this show. I wish TLC would allow the stories to play out, without unnecessary drama.

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5 hours ago, Muffyn said:

I'm of two minds on Beverly.  In an earlier episode she mentioned that she only recently started forming a better relationship with the daughter that wasn't shown in this episode.  It seemed like neither of Beverly's children respected her as a parent.  She and her daughter are now aligned in how uncomfortable they are with Karen's transition.  Her other child, Cas, has aligned with Karen and still has issues with Beverly.  This family has an incredibly unhealthy dynamic.

Beverly has never referred to Karen as Karen or she.  I absolutely understand her saying she had a life with her husband and her memories are related to a husband and wife relationship with what she had every reason to believe was a man.  She has 22 years that are now called into question. She cannot be expected to change overnight.  However, she is also not willing to try, as I suspect she was not very willing to try to understand Cas.  

At the same time, Karen is an ass.  Again, regardless of gender, a jerk is a jerk.  Karen is a jerk.  We saw it with the realtor.  We see it every episode.  Karen seems like she was a controlling husband who left little room for anyone else's opinion.  She still wants to control other people's thoughts and feelings.  She never should have been doing that in the first place.  She certainly loses any expectation of that during a divorce.  

Beverly seems to have been a victim throughout this relationship.  She also seems to have, to some extent, used her victimhood as a means of martyrdom for which she expects some level of affirmation.  With the dissolution of her marriage, she is now realizing she was just a victim.  She was treated terribly by her husband.  She did not have a good relationship with her children.  As often happens, they may have blamed her for not standing up to him more.  Bev's friend seems glad she will be getting out of the marriage.  

If Karen was a decent person and a caring spouse, she would have expressed concern for Bev's late nights, especially if she feels Bev is potentially using alcohol to deal with her issues.  Instead she went with "I don't like you staying out late".  Why?  Is Karen embarrassed?  Is it affecting her sleep? It certainly didn't sound like concern for Bev's well-being. 

I feel sorry for Bev but I also find her annoying.  She is in a terrible situation.  She also needs to take some control of her own life.  She needs to figure out her finances. She needs to stand up for herself.  It has to be hard having been AJ/Karen's doormat for all these years.  If she can't get it together herself, I hope her friends and daughter can help her through this.  Otherwise she is easy prey for another jackass who will treat her terribly.  

I feel the same way about Beverly. The constant smiling through pain is both admirable and sad. I feel for Karen, too, but Karen is all about Karen now. Bev needs to move on, but not as someone reliving their twenties.  At least not for too long.  She needs to find what truly makes her happy, and that may or may not be a relationship. 

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8 hours ago, Splithair said:

Wow, this show is tough. I feel sympathy for all.  Lucy/Troy and Cindy...something is just off there, but maybe they are in fact the most realistic couple on the show. Lucy/Troy seems to be very attracted to Cindy and vice versa. I wondered if maybe Lucy/Troy would be okay with cross-dressing and nothing further.  Same for Cindy.

A transgender woman came to speak at a lunch at my work a few years ago.  This is obviously one person's opinion, but she was married with children and they stayed married.  I remember her saying that transitioning is really expensive, but that the only reason someone wouldn't fully transition was due to the cost.  If money wasn't the issue, someone who was transgender would always go all the way.  I wonder if that is really true? 

She also said that certain aspects of being a 'man' stuck with her, such as speaking up more at work regarding salary, assignments, etc.  

Again, this was one person's opinion.  For the record, I personally believe that being transgender is something that occurs biologically.  No 'choice' involved. I do wonder a lot about 'male/female' roles in a relationship, though, and although society sees these roles evolving among straight, cis-gender couples, sometimes it seems like LGBTQ relationships struggle with this dynamic. Just my opinion. I do find it interesting to have both younger and older couples featured on this show. I wish TLC would allow the stories to play out, without unnecessary drama.

I’ve thought the same thing about Troy/Lucy, something just doesn’t seem right based on what I’ve seen and compared to other people on this show. I told my husband maybe Troy just needs to cross dress and the freedom to do that, such as periodic solo trips or something. Cindy may feel different though. But rather than throw away the relationship, maybe she’d be open to that.  Whatever they decide, I hope it’s a mutual, beneficial decision that will allow them to stay together. I really like them. 

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6 hours ago, NinaH said:

I’ve thought the same thing about Troy/Lucy, something just doesn’t seem right based on what I’ve seen and compared to other people on this show. I told my husband maybe Troy just needs to cross dress and the freedom to do that, such as periodic solo trips or something. Cindy may feel different though. But rather than throw away the relationship, maybe she’d be open to that.  Whatever they decide, I hope it’s a mutual, beneficial decision that will allow them to stay together. I really like them. 

I worked at Target in my early 20's and once a month a cross dresser would come in and shop the lingerie and women's department. He was very manly, but had on a wig, heels, and women's clothing. Early on I asked a co-worker about him and was told that he and his wife have an agreement that he can cross dress once a month. He was comfortable coming to Target and felt less judged than going to a mall.

Relationships are about compromise, but I am not sure if Cindy would agree with this. 

I wish all the couples well as I believe that we all should be able to live as our authentic selves. 

Edited by kelekins
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I have completely flip flopped my feelings. Oh this show.

I feel terrible for bashing Bev after the previous episodes. This episode turned me around. Now I feel Bev is doing the best she can given that she is surrounded by jerks. I still feel she needs to catch up a bit (she seems like a dim bulb) but I feel for her. She is being tossed away like trash by Karen who is so full of glee at leaving their life behind. Bev was probably dreaming of growing old with her (jerk) husband of 20+ years and babysitting her future grandchildren. Now she is looking at renting a crappy apartment with holes punched in the drywall.

Cindy is still grossing me out. I cannot see what Troy sees in her. Cindy seems like Troy's elderly aunt. Stop talking about how much you love wieners, I'm dying.

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On 6/25/2018 at 9:50 AM, Lesia said:

It seems to me that Beverly doesn't have the capacity to explain what she is feeling regarding this devastating turn of events in her family.  She is the proverbial deer in headlights.

This HAS to be insanely painful.  And you know what, she has every right to feel hurt and confused and not necessarily accept this immediately.  Her entire world has collapsed, and she has to start over again.  Not fair.

Yes!  How selfish of them to act annoyed at her pain.  From the little we've seen of their marriage I got the impression that he was a very bossy, shut up and do what I say type of husband.  She has admitted that she has just stayed quiet and followed the rules for the sake of peace in the past.  Hopefully she finds her voice and moves on, and I agree with whoever said she should go to therapy on her own so she can truly express what she's going through.

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Ugh, I'm flip-flopping now, too.

I am not flip-flopping with Stacy, though. Poor woman is under so much stress. I don't know if that could have contributed to her condition but, as a currently pregnant lady, that really stressed me out. Knowing how little support she has made me sad. I don't understand why they didn't just do an emergency c-section right away? I would want that, I think. Of course, maybe the show was maximizing the drama but I found it all very concerning. I was also a little surprised to see a birthing tub in the home when they were leaving for the hospital. I know she really wanted a home birth but after that meeting with her midwife, I thought she would realize being in a hospital would be best. I do hope everything works out okay. 

Not sure what to make of Leslie and her health. We're not being shown the whole picture so I'm a bit confused. Whatever happens, I hope she gets treated and realizes that breasts don't define a woman. That said, I'm not sure if she would qualify for reconstructive surgery since she hasn't fully transitioned? 

Troy/Lucy and Cindy continue to confuse me. They do seem to really love each other. This episode made it seem like they may find a happy medium. And, yeah, the wiener song was more than I needed to hear, too! We get it, Cindy, you like penises! Geez. 

So, I did like Cas on the last episode but she was pretty bratty this time around. She clearly harbors a lot of resentment toward Bev and I still think Bev has probably hurt Cas but now is a good time for the both of them to take advantage of therapy and try to work things out. I can't remember how old Cas is but the "correcting" thing grated. That's not what Bev needed in that moment. I do think Cas is very immature. What gets me is that Cas and Karen are getting to live their truth, which is great, but neither seems to be able to empathize with Bev. She was living a false truth for many years and that is painful. She needs time. Also, she still annoys me but I do feel compassion for her. I don't think she's the brightest bulb in the box or she's simply given in to being treated like crap by Karen for so many years. I don't know. I see a lot of dysfunction there. 

I missed Lawren and Jennifer. They are my favorite couple for now. 

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I feel terrible for Stacy.  Being pregnant is hard enough on it's own without all this other stress.  I know we only see a portion of their lives but it appears Stacy has to be the stronger partner most of the time and that bothers me.  She needs some tlc too, hopefully it's just the edit they're showing us. 

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3 hours ago, Bunky said:

I missed Lawren and Jennifer. They are my favorite couple for now. 

That's cause we haven't seen them in 2 weeks :D

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On 6/11/2018 at 7:54 AM, configdotsys said:

The lady that dressed Lucy was very rude and impatient with her. For goodness sake, lady, this was Lucy’s first time getting dolled up and she has every right to dislike the wig you decided on or whatever. “I’m gonna rip the wig off your head…” wtf was that?

 

I did not like the transformation specialist, something about her rubbed me the wrong way.  Did she charge for that?  I bet she did.  And when she said, "we will be out until 3am!" or whatever, Lucy looked terrified.  People who don't club don't like clubs!  Let her start out with a little bar or something.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 2:40 PM, IvySpice said:

Totally. Lucy was freaking mansplaining how Cindy was supposed to feel about the transition. It's no big deal? Get over it? If it's no big deal, Lucy, then you should go back to being Troy. It's a big deal to YOU!

Last week we had Karen from Ohio choosing the most dowdy, short wig. Lucy is the opposite -- awfully occupied with passing as a beautiful woman. Some of us who were assigned female at birth are fated to be fat or butch or homely women. Others starve ourselves for decades and still hate our bodies. Welcome to American womanhood. I promise I have never looked like the fellow partygoer in the thong. If being a woman is about loving the beauty in the mirror, then most cis women are failing at it. If what you want is glamour, Lucy, then maybe you want drag.

 

That's what I was saying out loud!  Hello - that is life for a woman, never feeling pretty enough, always wanting to lose some weight, etc.  It is so sad, really.

 

On 6/13/2018 at 8:21 AM, fountain said:

Leslie reminds of that actress in Mindy that is the  sister of the rich snooty guy.  While she may be butch looking she does look feminine to me that I would think outside of her workplace and friends other people wouldn’t notice.  I am sure the overheard comments are mainly for the show as IRL I am not sure people going about their lives pay that much attention to others. She does definitely look happier and seem happier now than in the beginning of the show.  Her wife is amazing, they are an amazing couple.

 

Fortune Feimster?!  I see it!

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On 6/25/2018 at 9:19 PM, Muffyn said:

Beverly has never referred to Karen as Karen or she.  I absolutely understand her saying she had a life with her husband and her memories are related to a husband and wife relationship with what she had every reason to believe was a man.  She has 22 years that are now called into question. She cannot be expected to change overnight.  However, she is also not willing to try,

would not surprise me in the least if this was her way of jabbing back.  We know she doesn't express her needs and emotions, but instead smiles through them.  This may be a passive aggressive tactic which, frankly, given the state of things I fully understand.  

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On 6/25/2018 at 9:19 PM, Muffyn said:

 

I feel sorry for Bev but I also find her annoying.  She is in a terrible situation.  She also needs to take some control of her own life.  She needs to figure out her finances. She needs to stand up for herself.  It has to be hard having been AJ/Karen's doormat for all these years.  If she can't get it together herself, I hope her friends and daughter can help her through this.  Otherwise she is easy prey for another jackass who will treat her terribly.  

I agreed with this whole post but especially this part. Beverly is annoying. She's not too swift.She's sticking her head in the sand, avoiding, drinking too much, spilling her guts to randos in some bar because she has to have some kind of outlet for her feelings. No one is acknowledging or validating her feelings. It makes me crazy. Karen is just a terrible person who has taken Beverly for granted and walked all over her for years. I'm not crazy about Beverly and lord knows I am not a very nice person but even I feel awful for her. And yes, she will find some other overbearing dick who'll treat her badly. 

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If Cas was there then Hayley should have been too. Beverly needed someone in her corner.

Hayley was invited and chose not to come (according to Bev).

Fate really took a shit on Stacy this year. Even if Leslie's health scare turns out to be staged, late-term pregnancy plus chasing a toddler plus transitioning plus poverty plus job loss plus cholestasis and the risk of losing her baby...nobody can handle all that. I take it she ends up with two healthy children, but other than that she's buried under a pile of crap. No fair, Universe. You have to spread this around a little more.

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So let’s see.  Karen is gleefully looking at an upscale apartment with a pool and Bev is looking at dumps.  This is the reason, when I was young, I made a decision that I would never, ever depend on another human being for my livelihood. So, through both divorces, I had no financial concerns because I had my income and the ability to take care of myself financially.

As far as Cas is concerned, someone should’ve slapped her.

As far as regretting the last 22 years, Beverly would be really foolish if she didn’t. It was a marriage based on lies and deceit.

That family is extremely dysfunctional.

Finally, have you ever seen a therapist that useless!

Edited by Kid
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10 hours ago, Kid said:

Finally, have you ever seen a therapist that useless!

At one point, she made a comment that was SO inappropriate that I turned to hubby and said, "She's either a fake or a really bad therapist."  I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was making a joke out of something that was really upsetting Beverly.  And - IMO - AJ/Karen is just transitioning from a son of a bitch to a bitch.

Edited by AZChristian
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1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

At one point, she made a comment that was SO inappropriate that I turned to hubby and said, "She's either a fake or a really bad therapist."  I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was making a joke out of something that was really upsetting Beverly.  And - IMO - AJ/Karen is just transitioning from a son of a bitch to a bitch.

 I was thinking the same thing, she was pretty ineffectual.   Seeing as this is a TLC show there's a good chance she's a fake.  It's common knowledge they do a lot of frauding and manipulating on their shows. 

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Episode description from TVGuide.com (even though they misidentify it as episode 8)

Quote

Cindy begins to open up her mind to Troy's transition, but draws a line when it comes to sex; after a stressful labor, Stacy delivers her baby, and Leslie heads off to surgery; Jennifer convinces Lawren to come out to her mother.

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On 6/28/2018 at 10:32 AM, SevenCostanza said:

 I was thinking the same thing, she was pretty ineffectual.   Seeing as this is a TLC show there's a good chance she's a fake.  It's common knowledge they do a lot of frauding and manipulating on their shows. 

As someone who has a sister who is a licensed family therapist, the TLC therapist is probably pretty low rent; a quality one would NEVER agree to be filmed.

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