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thewhiteowl

S02.E19: Capacity

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Ok. I know Kirkman’s speechifying was as corny AF. But it got to me. Damn you Kiefer. Damn you and your velvet voice.

So everybody is holding hands and everyone at the WH is cool now? 

Hannah’s going to go rouge. Even more so than usual.

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“We carry on 'til we're carried out.”  I like that. :-)

 

i think Hanna had some ulterior motive for getting all up in Frost's face...will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Edited by janeta
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If Kirkland wins out over this whole mess, we have to revisit the title theme, because his cabinet and VP are gone, gone, gone.  He'll be the only one left.

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18 minutes ago, preeya said:

Hannah Wells - vigilante. Don't fuck with her now!

Will Chuck go along with her? I'm guessing he will. He's Chloe O'Brien to her Jack Bauer. In love, but never requited. 

I wonder if they'll make it so that Audrey is being set up by people upset with her software spying on the public. 

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Oh no. Say it isn't so. Super agent Hannah fired. Will the FBI be able to function without her ? Who will the Seals call when they have a mission that is too much even for them ? Are the criminals of the world breathing a sigh of relief ? Most importantly , now who's going to treat Chuck like dirt ?

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I know someone on another thread suggested that Chuck might be the "mole", sorry I don't remember which thread which person to credit.  But last night Hannah listed everyone close to her who's been shot/killed and I thought that either Chuck is next to die or Chuck is employed by the organization working against the government/Kirkman.  Who told Hannah that Dr Frost was a common link to the shrink tapes?  Who has been the one who provides key clues for Hannah to pursue.  Is he a wonderful IT guy, hacker, guru of some sort or is it something else?  Are those looks of longing as he gazes at Hannah meant to mislead us?    I'm not at all sure and I also suspect the brother, something off about him too.  If this show gets a third season I think Dr Frost will be a love interest then so I think she's innocent, at least in this respect. 

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12 minutes ago, snarkylady said:

I know someone on another thread suggested that Chuck might be the "mole", sorry I don't remember which thread which person to credit.  But last night Hannah listed everyone close to her who's been shot/killed and I thought that either Chuck is next to die or Chuck is employed by the organization working against the government/Kirkman.  Who told Hannah that Dr Frost was a common link to the shrink tapes?  Who has been the one who provides key clues for Hannah to pursue.  Is he a wonderful IT guy, hacker, guru of some sort or is it something else?  Are those looks of longing as he gazes at Hannah meant to mislead us?    I'm not at all sure and I also suspect the brother, something off about him too.  If this show gets a third season I think Dr Frost will be a love interest then so I think she's innocent, at least in this respect. 

Good points. Chuck is in the prime position to be orchestrating or influencing any and all actions that have been on-going. He's got quite a bit of power that goes unchecked. He does seem to be a common thread in all the stuff that has plagued the WH. Just wondering if Hannah's firing will include him too.

Edited by preeya
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2 hours ago, Orillia said:

Oh no. Say it isn't so. Super agent Hannah fired. Will the FBI be able to function without her ? Who will the Seals call when they have a mission that is too much even for them ? Are the criminals of the world breathing a sigh of relief ? Most importantly , now who's going to treat Chuck like dirt ?

Holy White House! Tune in next week, same Kirkland time, same Kirkland channel!

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We all kew the hearing was going to come down to Tom making a grand speech to turn the tide. I actually thought West’s case was pretty weak. Mental illness runs in the family? How many cabinet members don’t have a family member that suffers from depression? And did we ever fully understand the compromise offer ? How about Prez and VP switch positions? Did you really think Tom would go back to being HUD secretary? I love the former president and I'm sorry that it turned out that he hated Tom so much. But he played it perfectly. Can’t touch this!  The WH lawyer should have invoked Abe Lincoln on the insanity-is-good-for-presidents. Was it insanity? I think it might have been some other term. Anyway, Washington wasn’t president during the war, or a politician. He was a general. I didn’t get how tough it is to win all the time. But Tom seemed to need to ponder that. Also, i think he should have cut West more slack. He was hired to do a job. Was he supposed to soft-sell it? Did you want to win because West did a crappy job? Tom should have been fearless. 

I like Dr. Frost. I don’t want her to be bad, but I don’t see any way for Hannah to redeem herself without being right about Frost. Even if she finds the real hacker, I don’t see Kirkman being all “Oh, I see why you were confused. Frost was being framed. It’s all ok now.” Hannah is the one who needs a sanity hearing. There’s the passion of your conviction and then there’s busting in a fancy DC restaurant and calling someone a murderer. Hannah’s going to need to spend the summer in a nice “spa” wih soft walls and soothing music. 

I don’t think they needed the budget story. Another problem wrapped up by a stern talking to from Tom. That would not have fazed me. You’re sure the VP who is kicking you out is going to honor a promise she made to you? We’ll see. 

I’ve realized that I love MJF so much that I dont mind how hard it is to understand him. Speaking of which, what was all that “You should be nice to me because you’re handicapped” BS? Wrong, Tom. He should do his job!

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5 minutes ago, preeya said:

Chuck is in the prime position to be orchestrating or influencing any and all actions that have been on-going. He's got quite a bit of power that goes unchecked.

Except, would he have ordered that drive by? Or risked Hannah’s life? I can see him wanting to get rid of boyfriend but not Hannah. I think his lerv is true. 

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5 minutes ago, tallykat said:

Except, would he have ordered that drive by? Or risked Hannah’s life? I can see him wanting to get rid of boyfriend but not Hannah. I think his lerv is true. 

 

5 minutes ago, tallykat said:

Except, would he have ordered that drive by? Or risked Hannah’s life? I can see him wanting to get rid of boyfriend but not Hannah. I think his lerv is true. 

The drive by that killed Damien?  Absolutely, he hated Damien due to his "relation" to Hannah.

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16 hours ago, marinw said:

Hannah’s going to go rouge.

Nah, her makeup looks just fine! ;-)

 

I hope to never understand what MJF is going through and God bless him for still being able to do what he loves in light of his condition ... but I kept wondering who MJF reminded me of and I finally figured it out - Jimmy Valmer from South Park. Damn, I'm going straight to Hell.

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I don't know why I continue to watch this "silly" show, as my 12yo calls it, but I do. Of COURSE, Tom speechified his way back into the presidency. Of COURSE, Hannah stormed the WH in a blood-soaked coat. (She really doesn't seem like a fun person to be around. Does she have any friends? Hobbies? A cat? Although being the kiss of death and all...) Like Janeta, I also thought she had some ulterior motive for confronting Frost so publicly.

I thought the former POTUS was actually going to come to Tom's aid, so this show isn't totally predictable - just badly written. 

How odd was the Emily - Aaron scene? I still think she's hopelessly in love with Tom - not mere slavish loyalty.

The brother still feels flimsy. Bipolar seems a bit extreme - and now he's Tom's de facto manny? 

So Lyor is the Political Director. Still think we could do without him.

I adore Michael J. Fox from way back - even got to meet him once! - but I honestly couldn't understand half of what he said. Plus, his character is as broadly written as the rest of them. 

On a shallow note, I liked Tom's lawyer's hair in this episode. When they flashed back to her scene with Emily, I thought, oh, no this is a much better look on you.

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I thought that they were going to find a bug or listening device in that toy car Kirkman's friend gave him since the reference to it in their scene seemed weirdly dropped in.

17 hours ago, janeta said:

i think Hanna had some ulterior motive for getting all up in Frost's face...will be interesting to see how that turns out.

I thought so too.  The way she was all right in her face, I thought Hannah was trying to "read" her reaction or something to determine if Frost was the hacker.

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Well I think this episode undoubtedly confirmed frosty Audrey is evil. Obviously Maggie Q is not getting booted off, and the only way for her to come back is if she was right about frost. So I’m sure it will be revealed Hannah saved the day again. But seriously, Kirkman couldn’t have at least heard her side of the story, after all he’s done for the country??? It did break my heart a little bit when she said everyone I care about is gone, and she didn’t list chuck. People on this form who keep saying chuck is a prime suspect for the hacker are right, he would be in a prime spot for that. But that would be very disappointing to me, so I’m gonna decide to turn a blind eye to that. 

The emily and Aaron scene was long overdue, obviously there building up to doing stuff in the finale. Nice to see any resemblance of season 1 again. 

I may have the unpopular opinion, but I really wish this show would continue for a 3rd season and it would get a better show runner. So sad how they took it in such a different direction from what it was meant to be. 

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23 minutes ago, Addie1917 said:

I may have the unpopular opinion, but I really wish this show would continue for a 3rd season and it would get a better show runner.

Seconded. This show had/still has so much potential.

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14 minutes ago, marinw said:

Seconded. This show had/still has so much potential.

Sure does with "Hannah 'fukin' Wells" on the loose.

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I think firing Hannah was a setup -- they figured out that the Oval Office has been bugged, but they can't find said bug (because the hacker is that good), so Tom staged the firing to draw out "Audrey Frost" the hacker. It was all part of Hannah's restaurant scene plan.

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I can support the idea that the Frosty Audrey public confrontation and Hannah firing are part of a scheme to out the mole. There are just so many things on this show that happen with no real buildup. So Chuck is crushing on Hannah and has awesome tech skills but what else? I know nothing else about him, have no investment in him so why should I care or be surprised if he's the mole? Audrey is a  female tech titan and can order carryout like a boss and that pretty much sums her up. Damien was a double agent and is probably dead. VP was the coup spokesperson but now its over so everything is cool, life goes on. Brother Kirkman had some issues but he's on meds so its all good. These people have no depth of character so I don't care what happens to them live/die, come/go, whatever. I liked Hannah's former boss/partner but they killed his son and killed him it didn't have any impact. Sad and a waste. I guess some of  this can be attributed to BTS upheaval but come on, tell a good story, not just move pieces around or off the board. You've got Kiefer Sutherland, stop being wasteful.

And by the way, bringing Kim Raver on was a cheap shortcut to intimacy, totally unearned. Build a relationship with words, not with audience familiarity from a past incarnation.

I'm understanding Michael J. Fox with no problem and enjoying him.

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I never watched 24, so I never get any references to it .  As for Kim Raver..... on the few occasions when she manages to show some sort of emotion or passion, she's  good. Mostly her characters  seem to just sit there like dolls... similar to Elizabeth Mitchell.   This episode, we actually got to see Kim show a temper.

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5 hours ago, forumfish said:

I think firing Hannah was a setup -- they figured out that the Oval Office has been bugged, but they can't find said bug (because the hacker is that good), so Tom staged the firing to draw out "Audrey Frost" the hacker. It was all part of Hannah's restaurant scene plan.

My husband thinks that the model car from Kirkman's friend is where the bug is and that his friend is the mole. 

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12 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

I thought that they were going to find a bug or listening device in that toy car Kirkman's friend gave him since the reference to it in their scene seemed weirdly dropped in.

 

This, it was so blindingly obvious i can't see how it could be anything else. how else could anyone apart from the core cast know details of kirkman's therapy etc? and it won't be one of the core cast because as this episode highlighted, all of them are ridiculously loyal to kirkman and for any of them to betray him would undermine this point.

The writers think they're throwing a curve ball by having Hannah be wrong in her hunch. for once. At some point in the next episode, Chuck will talk some sense into Hannah, and discover the key piece of evidence that proves Electric Car guy is framing Dr Audrey, i mean Frost. At which point Hannah will be in the position she was in back at the start of season 1 of having to save the president whilst not having privileged status or access to the White House's resources.

Then she can go back to being the FBI's only available agent for doing stuff for the president and sit back and wait for the next epic threat to the Kirkman presidency.

Edited by BasilSeal
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I’m jumping on the “model car as Chekhov’s gun” bandwagon. I mean, why did Kirkman have to call that guy to get a read on Andrea Frost? And then the closeup of the car. I’m not sure car guy is in on it, but that car sure is!

I’m trying to remember now if people are allowed to wait in the Oval Office when the President isn’t there. Just how thoroughly are regular visitors searched? The Former Prez sure seems a likely suspect, but the drive-by shooting is just really extreme. 

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2 hours ago, tallykat said:

I’m jumping on the “model car as Chekhov’s gun” bandwagon. I mean, why did Kirkman have to call that guy to get a read on Andrea Frost?

Yeah, it was somewhat contrived.

 

"So Mr President, why the urgent summons?"

"well, i'm wondering if my new friend and potential love interest Dr Frost is not in fact gorgeous but surprisingly single tech billionaire but an insane murderous hacker out to destroy my presidency and launch mass terror attacks on the American people. Your also a tech billionaire so i thought you'd obviously be best mates with her and would be able to help me decide, for some reason. So, what do you reckon? is she a mad murderous terrorist?"

"Hmmm, she might be."

"Gee, thanks for that stunning insight, and thanks for coming even though your presence has no obvious relevance to the actual plot. now I'm going to let my gaze linger on the model car you gave me and mention how you, the genius tech inventor, gave it to me ages ago, and how it's been in my office ever since.

Now, if only i could work out how the hacker knows everything i'm doing, it's a complete mystery."

Of course, it so unsubtle that it might be a double bluff, but perhaps they intend it to be obvious and then create tension by having Hannah pursue the wrong suspect?

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2 hours ago, tallykat said:

I’m trying to remember now if people are allowed to wait in the Oval Office when the President isn’t there. Just how thoroughly are regular visitors searched? The Former Prez sure seems a likely suspect, but the drive-by shooting is just really extreme. 

Especially when it seems that anyone outside of Mike is sketchy AF (I include the fight-prone First Daughter in that group - ha!). 

Also, I thought they had a good storyline going with Moss as mentor to Tom.  But noooooooo they just had to have him be a part of the already long line of peeps who betray the President.  Too bad.

1 minute ago, BasilSeal said:

Of course, it so unsubtle that it might be a double bluff, but perhaps they intend it to be obvious and then create tension by having Hannah pursue the wrong suspect?

I seriously hope so! 

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2 minutes ago, TheGreenWave said:

I thought they had a good storyline going with Moss as mentor to Tom.  But noooooooo they just had to have him be a part of the already long line of peeps who betray the President. 

Agreed, they had him portrayed as critical but largely benign and ultimately a patriotic man who put his country first, they seem to have made his character do a 180 degree about face and become a self serving and cynical political manipulator. At the 25th amendment hearing i also expected him to support Kirkman because having seen Kirkman run the country first hand he would realise that he was a decent and competent man regardless of his personal animosity, which would have tallied with his previous persona. But no.

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1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

now I'm going to let my gaze linger on the model car you gave me and mention how you, the genius tech inventor, gave it to me ages ago, and how it's been in my office ever since.

Aren't all gifts to a POTUS veted by security?

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22 minutes ago, marinw said:

Aren't all gifts to a POTUS veted by security?

One would hope so, but the writers could simply hand waive that one if they wanted to by saying the suggested car bug is some fiendish new tech beyond the detection capabilities of the secret service. Surely it couldn't be transmitting like a normal bug, but maybe he has to somehow download the data stored on the device when he is invited into the oval office. I forget now, but did Michael J Fox come up with any new dirt to use as ammunition against Kirkman after electric car guy had been in the oval office?

One reservation you could raise about him turning out to be the bad guy is that as the character is clearly based on Elon Musk, it would seem a little odd to make such an obvious cypher for a real person a monumental baddie, as it were. It could be construed as a dig at the real person the character was based on.

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I wonder if when an old friend of the president comes to visit , they are checked out as closely as someone he doesn't know. The tech giant comes to visit , he's an old buddy and Tom's excited to see him. He's got a briefcase from work with papers ,the car and whatever else. I'm sure it would be checked out but unless he said the car was a present, would it really be all that suspicious ? He gives Tom the car before he leaves. Would the secret service even know ? Are visitors rechecked when they leave ? 

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On 4/25/2018 at 7:32 PM, janeta said:

“We carry on 'til we're carried out.”  I like that. :-)

I think I've heard it somewhere else before, but don't remember where.

23 hours ago, Addie1917 said:

The emily and Aaron scene was long overdue, obviously there building up to doing stuff in the finale. Nice to see any resemblance of season 1 again.

It was nice but felt too quick after she and Seth broke up.  Emily and Aaron are better than Emily and Seth but take a little time before jumping into kissee kissee

3 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

Yeah, it was somewhat contrived.

 

"So Mr President, why the urgent summons?"

"well, i'm wondering if my new friend and potential love interest Dr Frost is not in fact gorgeous but surprisingly single tech billionaire but an insane murderous hacker out to destroy my presidency and launch mass terror attacks on the American people. Your also a tech billionaire so i thought you'd obviously be best mates with her and would be able to help me decide, for some reason. So, what do you reckon? is she a mad murderous terrorist?"

"Hmmm, she might be."

"Gee, thanks for that stunning insight, and thanks for coming even though your presence has no obvious relevance to the actual plot. now I'm going to let my gaze linger on the model car you gave me and mention how you, the genius tech inventor, gave it to me ages ago, and how it's been in my office ever since.

Now, if only i could work out how the hacker knows everything i'm doing, it's a complete mystery."

Of course, it so unsubtle that it might be a double bluff, but perhaps they intend it to be obvious and then create tension by having Hannah pursue the wrong suspect?

I think it's exactly what you've posted there.

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It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. It doesn’t make sense for it to be the car guy, except was he whining about something when he met originally with Kirkman? We just dont know him well enough to include him in a list of suspects—hey, what about that CDC doctor who saved the plague victims? Maybe it’s her. I was thinking that someone snuck a bug into the Oval and bugged the car post-car guy’s visit. I will not be happy if it’s him and he gets his two minute exposition speech in the finale as to why he is doing all this. If we know nothing about the Enigma anagram person except they are a hacker, what’s the point? It has to be a major player, like Moss. I can’t believe it’s Frost. 

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CALLING ALL CARS.....OR DUDE, WHERE IS MY CAR.....TAKE YOUR PICK.  I think you guys have nailed it. Just get rid of Dr. Audrey that's all I care about. 

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1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

It was nice but felt too quick after she and Seth broke up.  Emily and Aaron are better than Emily and Seth but take a little time before jumping into kissee kissee

I seriously disliked this scene (but agree with the preference of E&A > E&S).  They just needed Seth to walk in and awkwardly say, "hey guys what are you talking about?"

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On April 25, 2018 at 7:08 PM, marinw said:

Ok. I know Kirkman’s speechifying was as corny AF. But it got to me. Damn you Kiefer. Damn you and your velvet voice

The swelling presidential music didn't hurt his speechifying.

 

 

 

On April 26, 2018 at 4:56 PM, forumfish said:

I think firing Hannah was a setup -- they figured out that the Oval Office has been bugged, but they can't find said bug (because the hacker is that good), so Tom staged the firing to draw out "Audrey Frost" the hacker. It was all part of Hannah's restaurant scene plan.

Also, didn't we a hint of a smile on Hannah's profile as she left the must-be-bugged Oval? 

But POTUS et al. know it's in the model car, right? Can't they just give it to Chuck to dissect? Or maybe they already did, and now the car is able to clone phones that enter the Oval, including the phone of Elon Musk Stand-in. Kirkman probably activated it when not-Elon was in the room, and Kirkman touched it. Too convoluted?
 

Edited by shapeshifter
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4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:
On 4/25/2018 at 9:08 PM, marinw said:

Ok. I know Kirkman’s speechifying was as corny AF. But it got to me. Damn you Kiefer. Damn you and your velvet voice

The swelling presidential music didn't hurt his speechifying.

Sean Calley is great at Presidential Swelling,

(That sounded weird :D)

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So how is Audrey Frost such a great friend of the Prez so fast?  She needs a bullet.  I like the idea that Hannah/Jackie Bauer's firing was a ruse.  and why why why did the Prez pick some woman he had just met to be his VP?  She was quick is jump on the 25th amendment bandwagon.  Sorry, I don't forgive that fast.  You are all fired!  (and no, that was NOT a trump reference!)   :)

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On 28/04/2018 at 1:15 PM, shapeshifter said:

Also, didn't we a hint of a smile on Hannah's profile as she left the must-be-bugged Oval? 

That was my first thought. The way they looked at eachother felt like it was all planned. Maybe they wanna make it look like Hannah is no longer part of the team but secretly will continue with the investigation.

 

And Hannah confronting Frost also felt like she wanted to see her reaction and got what she was looking for. The way Frost reacted kinda showed that she could be a bad guy...

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On 4/26/2018 at 11:46 PM, AEMom said:

My husband thinks that the model car from Kirkman's friend is where the bug is and that his friend is the mole. 

I had the same thought. It wasn't the first time the camera's lingered on that model car. 

On 4/26/2018 at 12:18 PM, preeya said:

 

The drive by that killed Damien?  Absolutely, he hated Damien due to his "relation" to Hannah.

I think the driveby was orchestrated by that Russian woman who kept confronting Damien.

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I agree about the lingering shot at the model car meaning something.  

But, I would imagine the oval office gets swept for bugs regularly.  At least I hope it is.  If you leave people unattended to wait for the President I would hope you are not that naive.

If I was Pres, I would have the offices I regularly use to discuss strategy and confidential information swept at least once a week.  Call me paranoid.

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I just watched last week’s episode. I agree about the model car. But who placed the bug? I thought Frost was a red herring but I cannot imagine Hannah being fired over it. She has to redeem herself so she gets unfired! 

No.....anyone but Chuck as the mole. I really like him. Or Mike. Please, never Mike!

How is  POTUS going to be able to continue working with VPOTUS and ever trust her?!

I still enjoy this silly show. 

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