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S14.E20: Judgment Day

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1 minute ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I agree, but for somewhat different reasons (although your reasons were good). If Merideth and Jo are chosen, at the same time as Harper Avery is 'outed' as a predator who sexually attacked Marie Cerone, the press will start digging. The truth will be revealed, that Mer's mother dropped Marie Cerone's name from her Harper Avery-winning research after they had done it together! 

And Merideth could be facing a huge lawsuit because she didn't give Cerone credit for their research.

The way the last couple seasons have played out, I can’t see Meredith facing any kind of consequences. That used to be the treatment Cristina got, and now that she’s gone, Meredith gets it.

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1 minute ago, RedbirdNelly said:

why would Meredith be sued for Ellis not giving Cerone credit? I'm not following that part.

Because of the confrontation between Mer and Cerone previously, in which Cerone told Mer that she had done at least half the work on the medical discovery that Ellis Grey got her Harper Avery for, then suddenly Ellis Grey removed Cerone's name off the research study. [Ellis had to do that, because of the stipulation in Cerone's "hush money" contract that her name would no longer be associated with Harper Avery in any way.]  But, again, Mer will end up having to clean up her mother's messes. 

I don't have any 'spoiler' knowledge, or anything like that, but it sure seems like a Grey's Anatomy plot twist to me.

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6 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Because of the confrontation between Mer and Cerone previously, in which Cerone told Mer that she had done at least half the work on the medical discovery that Ellis Grey got her Harper Avery for, then suddenly Ellis Grey removed Cerone's name off the research study. [Ellis had to do that, because of the stipulation in Cerone's "hush money" contract that her name would no longer be associated with Harper Avery in any way.]  But, again, Mer will end up having to clean up her mother's messes. 

I don't have any 'spoiler' knowledge, or anything like that, but it sure seems like a Grey's Anatomy plot twist to me.

I remember that part; what I was trying to understand is why Meredith would be sued-not from a spoiler perspective but on what basis would Cerone sue Meredith?

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This is a fun ep. I enjoyed the stoned moments a lot. Grey's usually tries so hard to make the audience cry that it was nice to get an ep primarily focused on comedy. 

I'm still neutral on Maggie / Jackson though I think the writing for them is stronger now than it was earlier this season during that "courtship." Deriding Maggie and Jaggie each week won't change the writers minds so I will just focus on the positives. While they don't reek of chemistry, I've seen worse pairings on shows - worse pairings on Grey's too - and I've seen showrunners pander to shippers/viewers to a level that has decimated shows. So I'm marching on while wondering how the show will wrap up this season. All that said, I'm still hoping for my Maggie / Deluca reunion.

Count me in as someone who thinks Amelia will end up being pregnant before the season is over, though Teddy being pregnant would be messier drama. I think April meant Tom and not Matthew. With what happened at his wedding to April not to mention his recently deceased wife, I would think he'd be too messed up to consider being a romantic partner to anyone in the current time or near future. Then again, you never know with Grey's. Arizona is wandering filler material. 

Edited by Chick2Chic · Reason: fixed something.

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19 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I remember that part; what I was trying to understand is why Meredith would be sued-not from a spoiler perspective but on what basis would Cerone sue Meredith?

Oh. Two reasons: 1) As I said, Cerone *asked* Mer to put her name back on that paper, explaining that she and Ellis worked on it together and she deserved half the credit. Mer refused. (Mer didn't know why her name had been taken off, and her mother's diary didn't say.) When Cerone finds out she was one of thirteen women to be paid for their silence about Harper Avery, she's certain to be even more furious about that injustice and she will probably be out for revenge. 2) [Unless I'm mistaken] Mer is still a part-owner in the hospital, which is mostly owned by the Harper Avery foundation -- which would make her a legitimate target for a lawsuit against them.

Edited by Crazy Bird Lady
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1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

for a minute I thought Katherine was going to reveal that Harper Avery is actually Meredith's dad--because he harassed her mom and got her pregnant. Not sure if that is more or less full on soap than HA being Jackson's real father.

Omg hahaha. So not only would he be doing his mothers husbands daughter...but his half sisters SISTER! That is too much, haha

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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Meredith has become a good teacher. I remember when she and Cristina used to just yell at their interns and give them scut work. She let Jo figure out what to do and make her own decisions about the surgery.

Meredith still just yells at the interns - Glasses, Hellmouth...and gives them scut work.  Jo is not an intern - she has been on the show for years and years, especially in Gray's time with that year long time jump, and has been a capital D Doctor for a long time.  The only reason Meredith was a good teacher to Jo is that she stopped hating on her after her abusive husband came to town.  Prior to that, she was still bitchy to her.  So, I guess that is some growth!

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1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Oh. Two reasons: 1) As I said, Cerone *asked* Mer to put her name back on that paper, explaining that she and Ellis worked on it together and she deserved half the credit. Mer refused. (Mer didn't know why her name had been taken off, and her mother's diary didn't say.) When Cerone finds out she was one of thirteen women to be paid for their silence about Harper Avery, she's certain to be even more furious about that injustice and she will probably be out for revenge. 2) [Unless I'm mistaken] Mer is still a part-owner in the hospital, which is mostly owned by the Harper Avery foundation -- which would make her a legitimate target for a lawsuit against them.

the first one though wouldn't be a reason to sue Meredith. Cerone was wanting Meredith to make an announcement renaming the procedure--but that's just a PR move. Meredith doesn't control what people call it and she also isn't the author of the paper. So Cerone can't sue her for "failure to issue a statement". Cerone could try to sue the foundation but unless there is some role for the hospital in it (and when this harassment happened, it was not owned by the foundation or Meredith), I don't see how Meredith could be held responsible. Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

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April gives me life. Her and Bailey were a hoot. I wish I was as talented as them at making nose music.

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2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

the first one though wouldn't be a reason to sue Meredith. Cerone was wanting Meredith to make an announcement renaming the procedure--but that's just a PR move. Meredith doesn't control what people call it and she also isn't the author of the paper. So Cerone can't sue her for "failure to issue a statement". Cerone could try to sue the foundation but unless there is some role for the hospital in it (and when this harassment happened, it was not owned by the foundation or Meredith), I don't see how Meredith could be held responsible. Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

I'm not a lawyer, and you may be absolutely right. Cerone certainly *seemed* to believe that Merideth had the power announce that Cerone's name was being added to that research, since she and Ellis Grey had worked on it together. But I have no idea what the legalities are.

I *do* remember an occasion a couple of years ago where one company had bought out another, and the company that had bought the other one out [I don't remember the names of them] was being sued for something the (first) company had done before they were bought out. 

I never found out the result of that lawsuit, maybe the judge threw it out of court, maybe not.

Anyway, my original comment was just conjecture based on the revelations about Harper Avery and Cerone during the "Judgement Day" episode.

Edited by Crazy Bird Lady

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Everyone has already mentioned the scenes that I would have mentioned here, but I did laugh at Amelia giving Jo a 'bag of snacks for the road' she had fixed for Alex.  Cheetoes?

And his eyes were following the bag as she handed it to Jo - LOL.

Honestly, as a bona-fide former stoner myself, it usually annoys the crap out of me when TV shows try to play "stoned." They never quite get it right. Nobody had bloodshot, glassy eyes, and a lot of them were acting more like they were on an acid trip (DeLuca) than high on marijuana. There's a huge difference, trust me. But Alex acted the most genuine out of the lot of them. Jackson, Katherine and Arizona didn't even act like there was anything different about them.

This thing with Owen and the baby seems really, really stupid. Why would the foster program even approve him for a baby if he didn't even have the necessary furnishings for one? Isn't that something they should check out before dropping off a baby at his house? Geez. It sure doesn't speak well of the foster program in Seattle. 

Edited by iMonrey
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17 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I'm not a lawyer, and you may be absolutely right. Cerone certainly *seemed* to believe that Merideth had the power announce that Cerone's named was being added to that research, since she and Ellis Grey had worked on it together. But I have no idea what the legalities are.

I *do* remember an occasion a couple of years ago where one company had bought out another, and the company that had been bought out [I don't remember the names of them] was being sued for something the (first) company had done before they were bought out. 

I never found out the result of that lawsuit, maybe the judge threw it out of court, maybe not.

Anyway, my original comment was just conjecture based on the revelations about Harper Avery and Cerone during the "Judgement Day" episode.

Shonda and her writers aren't lawyers either, which is why pretty much any storyline involving legal issues is poorly written and usually dead wrong in the details.  I fully expect this one to follow that pattern.   It wouldn't surprise me if your speculation pans out.

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18 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Usually I don't like Katherine, but I did like Katherine telling Jackson he had no idea what it was like to be a woman 30 years ago. 

I did, too. Anyone who wasn't around 30 years ago, really doesn't get it. 

7 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I was waiting for Katherine to reveal that she was one of the women Harper Avery harassed.

And, of course, if they want to go full on soap, Harper Avery will turn out to be Jackson's real father and that's why daddy (played by) Eric Roberts took off.  (And I do think we'll see him again.  You don't hire an actor like Eric Roberts and use him only in a single episode)

That would be an interesting twist... and a completely believable one. It would mean that (a) Harper forced sex upon his own son's girlfriend/wife, and/or (b) Because there was a child involved, Harper Avery insisted that his son marry Katherine.

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21 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I'm not a lawyer, and you may be absolutely right. Cerone certainly *seemed* to believe that Merideth had the power announce that Cerone's named was being added to that research, since she and Ellis Grey had worked on it together. But I have no idea what the legalities are.

I *do* remember an occasion a couple of years ago where one company had bought out another, and the company that had been bought out [I don't remember the names of them] was being sued for something the (first) company had done before they were bought out. 

I never found out the result of that lawsuit, maybe the judge threw it out of court, maybe not.

Anyway, my original comment was just conjecture based on the revelations about Harper Avery and Cerone during the "Judgement Day" episode.

If Ellis started a company that made billions off of her research, and now Meredith owned that company, Cerone absolutely could sue the company and indirectly impact Meredith. But if your mom pulls a jerk move, I can't just come around years later and sue you personally for your mom being a jerk. Here if Ellis had founded a medical device company or something and Meredith now ran it, I could see some big lawsuit with Cerone trying to get profits that she argues should have been her since 1987 or whatever. But they didn't have Ellis found anything that we've been told about.

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5 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Shonda and her writers aren't lawyers either, which is why pretty much any storyline involving legal issues is poorly written and usually dead wrong in the details. It wouldn't surprise me if your speculation pans out. 

I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens. 

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6 hours ago, Joana said:

It's interesting that they've once again put together people who usually don't interact that much (Arizona/Maggie, Alex/Owen, April/Bailey) and again it actually worked! See, when you make a bit of an effort (even though the premise was somewhat silly), it's possible to have everyone well integrated into the story. Too bad they didn't start doing that earlier and more often.

 

This was my favorite part of the episode, but yes it made me sad that it almost never happens.  For example, it occurred to me how very little we see Meredith and Catherine together and how interesting a relationship between these two would be, for many reasons.  I hope that whatever comes up the Harper Avery mess, it will give us more scenes with this two, and Richard and Jackson too, I really like that foursome.  My unpopular opinion is that I really like Catherine and what she brings to the show.  She isn't an outright villain, but she isn't someone that the show seems concerned about making likable and I really appreciate that.  I loved her speech to Jackson about the realities of how things used to be.  The Me Too movement is all well and good, and very overdue, but, things really, really were different then.

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And his eyes were following the bag as she handed it to Jo - LOL.

I loved all of his facial expressions throughout the episode!  His dopey face when he told Jo that she looked happy, his talking shit about Owen with his mouth full and his utter glee when he thought he was going to hold the baby.  I have never been one who clamored for Alex to have a baby, but MY GOD GIVE THIS MAN A BABY!  Better yet, just give him Baby Leo and Owen can get an older kid that he would be more comfortable with!

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4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:
7 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

Did my ears deceive me or did Amelia refer to Meredith as her ex sister in law?  That seemed a bit off. It’s not like she divorced Derek. 

No, she just said sister-in-law.

I definitely heard Amelia say ex sister-in-law. I remember wondering who that would be.

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Meredith isn't responsible for what Ellis did.  Marie can't sue Ellis because she is dead.  The hospital didn't buy the Harper Avery Foundation.  The Harper Avery Foundation invested in the hospital.  There is also this little thing called indemnity that companies agree to when they merge, buy, or invest in each other.  If one of the women that Harper Avery harassed worked at the hospital, and the hospital helped cover it up, then she might have a case.  None of this will matter to the writers.  They will write whatever they want.

I keep wondering what the scene would be like if Meredith were interacting with Cristina, Lexie, and Izzy instead of Maggie or Jo.

Edited by TigerLynx
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I definitely heard Amelia say ex sister-in-law. I remember wondering who that would be.

Wouldn't Meredith technically be a former sister in law, since Amelia's brother is now dead? They aren't sisters-in-law forever, just because Meredith was once married to her brother, right? I mean, if Meredith remarried, would it be correct to still refer to her as a sister-in-law? I wouldn't think so.

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Hmm, that's an interesting semantic issue. How do people refer to siblings or parents of their deceased spouses, anyway? I must say I've never quite thought about it. "Ex" doesn't seem appropriate as it implies a divorce, and also, I really don't think most people would talk of their dead husbands and wives as their "exes". "Former" may be more adequate, but it could still lead to confusion. Or is it just something along the lines of "my late husband's sister"? I guess it would depend on how close you are to the said person as well, or if you've remarried since. 

Edited by Joana

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It wouldn't make sense, but Owen's sister is now her ex-sister in law and she did adopt a kid.  But clearly she meant Meredith.

One other funny part was when Amelia asked Owen if he wanted a Diaper Genie and Owen asked if it would come to his house.  Like a real genie - HA!  If only.

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OK, I don't get it. 

Did Meredith's mom remove Cerone's name from the paper because Cerone was one of the 13 women? So she got the money and all other stuff?

If yes, then why would she want Meredith to put her name back? And she would know why her name was removed,right?

I think I'm missing something here

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9 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

OK, I don't get it. 

Did Meredith's mom remove Cerone's name from the paper because Cerone was one of the 13 women? So she got the money and all other stuff?

If yes, then why would she want Meredith to put her name back? And she would know why her name was removed,right?

I think I'm missing something here

She wouldn't be eligible for the Harper Avery award as per her agreement with the Foundation, and we know the award was all Ellis Grey ever lived for, so she cut her research partner out to be able to get it.

Now, I don't think she wants the award itself, she just wants the method they came up with together to be known under her name as well along with Ellis Grey's, and I don't think there would be any legal obstacles to that?

Edited by Joana
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3 minutes ago, Joana said:

She wouldn't be eligible for the Harper Avery award as per her agreement with the Foundation, and we know the award was all Ellis Grey ever lived for, so she cut her research partner out to be able to get it.

Now, I don't think she wants the award itself, she just wants the method to be known under her name as well along Ellis Grey's, and I don't think there would be any legal obstacles to that?

Snow Fairy is on to something. There is inconsistency here (surprise). If Cerone signed an NDA and got the cash, agreeing to not be eligible for the prize, that agreement is binding on her--not Ellis. Ellis would have to know about the agreement (and Cerone likely violated the NDA by telling Ellis)  in order for Ellis to say "hey, I want this prize, but keeping Cerone's name will mean I can't win. . . so I'm taking her off." And it would not make sense for Cerone (at the time she is threatening Meredith when Jackson has not waived anything) to be making that ask of Meredith. Her story mentioned none of this--but she'd have to know why Ellis dropped her name.

Maybe they write it as Cerone comes back "yeah the story as to why and everything I told you wasn't true; the real reason I quit my career was Harper Avery being such a jerk but the true part is I still want you to rename it."

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16 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

Jo doing the surgery as a lead was so refreshing to watch, I hope we see more solo surgeries with her.

Poor Deluca, I still think him and Maggie can be a better pairing than Jackson and Maggie.

 

 

Glad to see Jo getting a chance to prove herself as well.

I remember when Maggie and Deluca were together at the beginning, it was kind of hot because they were hiding it, etc.  There is NONE of that with Jackson. You would definitely believe them to be brother/sister rather than a couple if you didn't know better.  And even one of those brothers/sisters that have nothing in common so they rarely talk.   Jackson/April still have so much more chemistry.

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I have to give the show credit for tying the Marie Cerone story back to Avery's sexual predation. At first I thought that was just another story about Ellis being...well...Ellis but now that we have this other layer it's a way more interesting story to me. This has the chance to be a story about how smart women were forced to deal with sexual harassment when they had no real options. Catherine's speech to Jackson was a good example of this but I think by adding Cerone and Ellis and hopefully that Dr. Kroy from the Skype call to the mix we get a bunch of different perspectives. With Ellis and Meredith we get to see how even if you weren't the direct victim of harassment, it still damaged you. Ellis lost a friend and professional colleague. Meredith may lose this project. Amelia nearly lost a chance to work with a doctor who could help her project.

My only question is who is going to be the sacrificial lamb when it all comes out.

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31 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Snow Fairy is on to something. There is inconsistency here (surprise). If Cerone signed an NDA and got the cash, agreeing to not be eligible for the prize, that agreement is binding on her--not Ellis. Ellis would have to know about the agreement (and Cerone likely violated the NDA by telling Ellis)  in order for Ellis to say "hey, I want this prize, but keeping Cerone's name will mean I can't win. . . so I'm taking her off." And it would not make sense for Cerone (at the time she is threatening Meredith when Jackson has not waived anything) to be making that ask of Meredith. Her story mentioned none of this--but she'd have to know why Ellis dropped her name.

Maybe they write it as Cerone comes back "yeah the story as to why and everything I told you wasn't true; the real reason I quit my career was Harper Avery being such a jerk but the true part is I still want you to rename it."

Perhaps it went down like this: Cerone knew she wouldn't be eligible for the award, which automatically meant Ellis wouldn't be either if they submitted their research together, so she voluntarily withdrew her name without going into details with Ellis as to why. Her condition was that after Ellis gets the award, the method they came up with together would carry both of their names, which I don't think the Foundation could object to - could they? And then Ellis got all greedy and didn't want to share her glory. 

Edited by Joana
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Whatever Ellis and Harper Avery did, or whatever Marie agreed to, it still isn't Meredith's fault or responsibility.  Depending on what evidence she has, Marie might be able to claim her part in the research.  Katherine and the Harper Avery Foundation were directly involved in the cover up so even though Harper Avery is dead, they can be held liable.  Jackson being the one to waive the NDAs brings up another problem all together.  Whether or not Jackson had standing to waive the NDAs.  If Katherine and the Harper Avery Foundation granted Jackson all powers without bothering to tell him any of this, then they are beyond dumb.

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7 hours ago, moonorchid said:

Omg hahaha. So not only would he be doing his mothers husbands daughter...but his half sisters SISTER! That is too much, haha

How is he doing his half sister's sister in that scenario? Harper Avery doesn't have any other kids so Harper being his father doesn't give him any new siblings.

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I definitely heard Amelia say ex sister-in-law. I remember wondering who that would be.

Closed captioning said sister-in-law, no ex.

3 hours ago, Joana said:

Hmm, that's an interesting semantic issue. How do people refer to siblings or parents of their deceased spouses, anyway? I must say I've never quite thought about it. "Ex" doesn't seem appropriate as it implies a divorce, and also, I really don't think most people would talk of their dead husbands and wives as their "exes". "Former" may be more adequate, but it could still lead to confusion. Or is it just something along the lines of "my late husband's sister"? I guess it would depend on how close you are to the said person as well, or if you've remarried since. 

I know people who still call their dead brother's widow their sister-in-law. I also know someone who calls their dead husband's sister their sister-in-law even though she's remarried. I think if you had a certain relationship for 20+ years, it is hard to switch labels. If it was a shorter marriage it may be different.

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1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

How is he doing his half sister's sister in that scenario? Harper Avery doesn't have any other kids so Harper being his father doesn't give him any new siblings.

You’re right, it would be his aunts sister.

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10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Wouldn't Meredith technically be a former sister in law, since Amelia's brother is now dead? They aren't sisters-in-law forever, just because Meredith was once married to her brother, right? I mean, if Meredith remarried, would it be correct to still refer to her as a sister-in-law? I wouldn't think so.

Mr. EB’s father died when he was in college. His father’s siblings still refer to Mr. EB’s mother as their sister in law. His father’s parents continued to refer to her as their daughter in law until they died. As far as his father’s family is concerned, she is still part of their family. She is invited to every Christmas, Thanksgiving, and family gathering. 

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But Cereone knew already why her name was taken out of the paper. She propably was also paid of as all the other women and signed the NDA. So I wonder why did she even come to the hospital when Meredith invited her? She legally couldn't get involved in anything that is connected to the Harper Avery foundation.

And I don't think she can sue Meredith for anything. She gave no proof to Meredith she really was coauthor on that paper. And also what bothers me is that Richard was around when the Grey Method 'happenned'. Wouldn't he know about that it wasn't only Grey?

I'm not a lawayer but if you already signed some papers and took the money do you really can sue someone for that? I mean they already agreed on settlement.

I personally think it will all be more PR issue and #metoo problem which will drive  Harper Avery Foundation to fall... And again.. I understand those women should get some justice but I don't think the whole foundation should suffer from that. It was Harpery Avery who did that.. and he's dead now.. If we found out now that Alfred Nobel was sexual predator would the prize lost it's prestige?

 

And from the other side.. The best stoend people were Alex, April and Deluca ;) Arizona and Maggie were to whiny...

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5 hours ago, lorbeer said:

But Cereone knew already why her name was taken out of the paper. She propably was also paid of as all the other women and signed the NDA. So I wonder why did she even come to the hospital when Meredith invited her? She legally couldn't get involved in anything that is connected to the Harper Avery foundation.

 

That's just what I was thinking. Something's not right here

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18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This thing with Owen and the baby seems really, really stupid. Why would the foster program even approve him for a baby if he didn't even have the necessary furnishings for one? Isn't that something they should check out before dropping off a baby at his house? Geez. It sure doesn't speak well of the foster program in Seattle. 

 

Actually, when my (then-childless) friend applied to foster, also saying she'd take any age, they called one day and said they had a baby for her, and she had 6 hours to run out and get a crib and other baby stuff, since she didn't have it (she's since adopted her). So it can definitely happen that way. (I mean, otherwise, he'd have to have bed options for any potential age, which isn't realistic.)

Honestly, I think it may have been more interesting if he'd been given, say, a teenager. Maybe it wouldn't have the humor value, but would have been more interesting.

Edited by MarylandGirl · Reason: adding comment
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1 hour ago, MarylandGirl said:

Actually, when my (then-childless) friend applied to foster, also saying she'd take any age, they called one day and said they had a baby for her, and she had 6 hours to run out and get a crib and other baby stuff, since she didn't have it (she's since adopted her). So it can definitely happen that way. (I mean, otherwise, he'd have to have bed options for any potential age, which isn't realistic.)

Honestly, I think it may have been more interesting if he'd been given, say, a teenager. Maybe it wouldn't have the humor value, but would have been more interesting.

Absolutely accurate! 

We fostered a niece, who (after we said we wanted custody, and went through the process of becoming accredited to *become* foster parents) had already been in a couple of other foster homes. Although we did not live anywhere near to that state, we were ordered to come get her immediately once the judge accepted our petition to foster her. When we got there, she was wearing clothes that were too small for her, her teeth were totally rotten, and she had no clothes or toys (or anything else) to put into the little suitcase we'd bought for her. We hadn't expected that... We had to immediately buy her wearable clothes, shoes, and pj's --as well as a couple of toys-- and then race to catch our plane home!

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This storyline makes less sense the more I think about it. Jackson revoked one ladies’ NDA. The others would still be in effect. Also, the foundation is large and Harper Avery is dead. I don’t think people would immediately start dismissing the award over one misconduct allegation. The award isn’t really about Harper Avery at this point.

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6 minutes ago, deaja said:

This storyline makes less sense the more I think about it. Jackson revoked one ladies’ NDA. The others would still be in effect. Also, the foundation is large and Harper Avery is dead. I don’t think people would immediately start dismissing the award over one misconduct allegation. The award isn’t really about Harper Avery at this point.

I think the outrage will be mostly directed towards the people who knew about Harper Avery's wicked ways and helped cover his mess up, some of whom are still very much alive and have an active role in the Foundation (i.e. Catherine), so it's not implausible that the entire Foundation and thus the award itself gets tarnished. 

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2 minutes ago, deaja said:

This storyline makes less sense the more I think about it. Jackson revoked one ladies’ NDA. The others would still be in effect. Also, the foundation is large and Harper Avery is dead. I don’t think people would immediately start dismissing the award over one misconduct allegation. The award isn’t really about Harper Avery at this point.

Another issue I have is even if Jackson didn't know what the NDA was about, wouldn't the lawyers would have known? They didn't stop and say, "yeah, you don't want to do that"? I have a hard time believing that a five minute phone call from the dead guy's grandson would be enough to undo all those legal agreements. (Or that Jackson has the power to just unilaterally waive something like that and that a good lawyer would go along with it, no questions asked. They should probably fire the lawyers.)

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23 hours ago, moonorchid said:

Omg hahaha. So not only would he be doing his mothers husbands daughter...but his half sisters SISTER! That is too much, haha

And his daughter's mother is doing his mother's ex. 

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27 minutes ago, Joana said:

I think the outrage will be mostly directed towards the people who knew about Harper Avery's wicked ways and helped cover his mess up, some of whom are still very much alive and have an active role in the Foundation (i.e. Catherine), so it's not implausible that the entire Foundation and thus the award itself gets tarnished. 

Two words: Stormy Daniels. 

[Once public outrage is present, those "hush money" agreements go out the window.]

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14 hours ago, moonorchid said:

You’re right, it would be his aunts sister.

If HA fathered both Jackson and Meredith, they would be half-siblings. If he fathered Meredith only, Meredith would be Robert's half-sister and Jackson's aunt. 

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22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And his eyes were following the bag as she handed it to Jo - LOL.

Honestly, as a bona-fide former stoner myself, it usually annoys the crap out of me when TV shows try to play "stoned." They never quite get it right. Nobody had bloodshot, glassy eyes, and a lot of them were acting more like they were on an acid trip (DeLuca) than high on marijuana. There's a huge difference, trust me. But Alex acted the most genuine out of the lot of them. Jackson, Katherine and Arizona didn't even act like there was anything different about them.

I feel the same way.  I thought the portrayal of Alex as stoned was spot-on. He probably realized what was happening and thought, Hey! Give me some more cookies!   And Amelia's reactions to him were great also.

And yes, DeLuca actually appeared to be hallucinating and not imagining.  Although when he started sobbing, I did think, "Oh no!  A crying jag!" lol 

I also thought Maggie's performance was good.  My first time, I was completely weirded out like that, and I knew what I was doing and certainly was not at work.  I could imagine her obsession with cheese once she relaxed.

My problem with April is that I would expect her to be freaked out instead of abruptly starting to cackle during the meeting. I mean, this probably wasn't some subtle sort of high . . . check out Bailey's operating room moving around . . . April would wonder what in the world was wrong with her, wouldn't she?

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3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

(Or that Jackson has the power to just unilaterally waive something like that and that a good lawyer would go along with it, no questions asked. They should probably fire the lawyers.)

That's what I thought..

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There are different kinds of NDAs.  In this instance, I would think it was something along the lines of the women got a certain payment so long as they never said anything about what Harper Avery did to them.  If they did speak out, they would have to repay the money, possibly more.  I'm not sure why they were not allowed to have anything to do with any hospital associated with the Harper Avery Foundation, or why Jackson could just waive the NDAs.  I don't think the writers did any research on this.  It's just being written for plot convenience.

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Jackson not bothering or caring to find out why exactly that other doctor was barred from associating with a Harper Avery hospital, unilaterally deciding to waive the contract that barred her, the lawyers just up and doing it just because he said so = utter nonsense.

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Jackson never really wanted the Avery heritage or the politics though, he just wanted to be a good doctor. I can see that he would say "oh, just stop the NDA already and let Amelia save her patient."  Jackson's first priority would be to be a doctor.

We'll probably find out what happened in the next episode but the way I'm thinking is that Ellis and Marie Cerone developed the procedure together. Then the sexual harassment and NDA happened. Ellis could have published the research elsewhere under both their names but she wanted the award because she's Ellis and so she unilaterally took Marie's name off of it and submitted their joint research under her name only.  With the NDA in effect, Marie couldn't tell anyone it was her work too.  Forty years of that kind of helplessness to claim credit for her work can make one very bitter indeed.

I have never liked Catherine so much as during her speech about what it was like to be a woman surgeon 30 years ago.  I bet Debbie Allen had a great time with it.

On 4/20/2018 at 6:53 PM, TigerLynx said:

Whatever Ellis and Harper Avery did, or whatever Marie agreed to, it still isn't Meredith's fault or responsibility.

Greg Berlanti built the TV show Arrow on the idea of righting the wrongs  one's father has done.  I'm sure there are people in real life who have taken on the responsibility too.

11 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

Honestly, I think it may have been more interesting if he'd been given, say, a teenager. Maybe it wouldn't have the humor value, but would have been more interesting.

But then he wouldn't have needed Amelia's help.   I think this plot is going to end with Owen and Amelia together and raising Leo and Amelia's baby as stair step siblings.

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7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Jackson never really wanted the Avery heritage or the politics though, he just wanted to be a good doctor. I can see that he would say "oh, just stop the NDA already and let Amelia save her patient."  Jackson's first priority would be to be a doctor.

Yeah, but he's also not stupid. If this other doctor was the only one who could help Amelia's patient and the only thing stopping her was some kind of corporate politics, then I could see Jackson demanding answers, questioning Catherine about it, moving hell and high water to get to the bottom of it and try to settle things, because saving a patient's life is too important to just shrug it off because oh well the special doctor can't do it. I do not see him shrugging and going oh well forget that nondisclosure that says you're not allowed to work here, I'll just cancel it without knowing what it's for.

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On 4/21/2018 at 1:03 AM, Joana said:

Hmm, that's an interesting semantic issue. How do people refer to siblings or parents of their deceased spouses, anyway? I must say I've never quite thought about it. "Ex" doesn't seem appropriate as it implies a divorce, and also, I really don't think most people would talk of their dead husbands and wives as their "exes". "Former" may be more adequate, but it could still lead to confusion. Or is it just something along the lines of "my late husband's sister"? I guess it would depend on how close you are to the said person as well, or if you've remarried since. 

I have a couple of friends who are widows.  Most still call their husband's family by the pre-widow titles.  In their minds, they didn't leave the family and they want their children to stay connected to their husband's family.  You don't call your husband an "ex" just because he passed on. For a lot of people, they still refer to that person as their husband (and then sometimes follow it up with a clarification that he passed on).  I have one friend who was widowed 10 years ago and still refers to her husband's sister as her sister-in-law. 

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10 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Jackson not bothering or caring to find out why exactly that other doctor was barred from associating with a Harper Avery hospital, unilaterally deciding to waive the contract that barred her, the lawyers just up and doing it just because he said so = utter nonsense.

But he did ask Katherine what was going on, and from her rather elusive answer he could have thought it was an old story which didn't really have consequences now. She could have been more straightforward with him at this point. I agree however that the lawyer part of the story is not credible.

I can see Meredith trying to make it right by Marie Cerone now. She seemed genuinely upset when she understood why her name was taken out the discovery.

I think this was one of the best episodes in a long time. It had so many layers, fun moments and also moving moments, and we got to see most characters but with different pairings than usual and that worked really well. April and Bailey were awesome (I wonder how the actresses managed to go through the bagpipe scene with a straight face. Good job.).

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On 4/20/2018 at 10:39 PM, moonorchid said:

You’re right, it would be his aunts sister.

 

On 4/21/2018 at 1:28 PM, Layne said:

If HA fathered both Jackson and Meredith, they would be half-siblings. If he fathered Meredith only, Meredith would be Robert's half-sister and Jackson's aunt. 

Wait, where did the idea of Harper Avery fathering Meredith come from? I thought the speculation was that HA was actually Jackson's father, not grandfather. But they specifically said Ellis wasn't a victim of Harper's, and they have never hinted at a consensual affair between Ellis and Harper. 

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