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Josiah and Lauren: He Has To Marry Somebody

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37 minutes ago, awaken said:

 I agree. I hope that it was their sincere desire to share their experience with the public, and not show driven. 

This is the Duggars. They're the Kardashians of the fundie world. 100% show driven.

Granted Jilly Muffin made a statement about announcing early even if she miscarried because sanctity of life and blah blah blah.

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49 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

I'm sorry she miscarried, I truly am. However, and I'm going to sound like an insensitive bitch but these people announce their pregnancies sometimes barely into a month. Look, I've had numerous miscarriages so I get it. However, just sitting around waiting to get pregnant while everyone else waits for you to announce fuels this crazy announcing while your pee stick is still wet and your maybe one day late. Just....slow...down.

These are the same people who like to crow about sex having consequences, so YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ABORTION EVER, KAREN. Miscarriage is a consequence of sex, too. They need to one-up Anna and name it, though.

Edited by JoanArc
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1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

But she never publicly announced she was pregnant. Didn't she just tell the family?

Yep. I imagine they were prepping for an announcement after the Jabbie wedding special.

I really hope these two are taking the time for themselves. They're so young. Lauren shouldn't be worried about getting pregnant ASAP.

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Just now, ginger90 said:

I hope if a pregnancy announcement was filmed, TLC doesn’t air it.

Oh no. It's even better. They filmed Lauren in a talking head alone sobbing about it. No 'Siah in sight.

As much as I find their belief system abhorrent, have a little humanity TLC.

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30 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Yep. I imagine they were prepping for an announcement after the Jabbie wedding special.

I really hope these two are taking the time for themselves. They're so young. Lauren shouldn't be worried about getting pregnant ASAP.

I agree with you, but sadly, that ship has sailed. Lauren's job is to make babies for Jesus and the Duggar TV show. She knows it, and got pregnant ASAP which sadly ended in a miscarriage. As we've discussed above, in their theology that means that she and Josiah are being punished by God for having sinned. I'm sure they are going to do their best to have a successful pregnancy which will be God's blessing them after all.

9 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Oh no. It's even better. They filmed Lauren in a talking head alone sobbing about it. No 'Siah in sight.

As much as I find their belief system abhorrent, have a little humanity TLC.

It's not humanity. It's television. Ratings and revenue rule. The more drama the better. 

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@Churchhoney Actually they've known the Duggars for a long time. The Swansons are IBLP. They've met at conferences. Lauren's father, Dwain Swanson, runs a ministry with Michelle's nephew.  So she married Josiah, because he's IBLP royalty and probably was a little into the television side as well. 

I agree they're okay with sharing it with the world. Not everyone cares about sharing pain publicly. 

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3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It's sad, but how far along could she possibly have been? They got married in Augusr, she had the miscarriage in October, so seven, eight weeks at most? She must've announced to the family ridiculously early.

Lauren started pinning baby stuff on her pinterest around mid September and then quickly deleted it. That's possibly when she found out. I think the miscarriage happened shortly after Jabbie's wedding. 

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

I hope if a pregnancy announcement was filmed, TLC doesn’t air it.

Of course they'll air it. They waited all the way until the season premiere to tell us about the miscarriage for ratings. These people can't quietly announce anything. 

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SUUUUPER terrible thought-Didn't it get reported they live in an apartment now, not JB's fixer upper? Did JB boot them because of the miscarriage? It feels like the sort of evilly petty thing he would do, especially since he (on the outside) appears to really dislike Josiah. 

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I know babies are their life and The believe god has a reason for everything, but would it ever occur to them that maybe god decided to not bless them with a baby because it wasn't time? Like, she's 19. Maybe god doesn't want her to have a baby at 19, hence the miscarriage. 

I don't really belive that an all-powerful deity is controlling my life, but if I did I would probably believe that if he was, it was the big picture that he was controlling and that he gave me free will for the small things. There's no way he's sitting around deciding what I'm eating for breakfast. So in that vein, if I use my free will to do something not in my grand plan, maybe that's when he steps in. 

So if I'm 19 use my free will and get pregnant ... oops, maybe that wasn't supposed to happen. Maybe not in that moment, maybe not ever, but he tried to correct my course by undoing it. Just a (heathen devil's advocate) thought.

I do feel sorry that she has to experience a miscarriage under the rules of fundyland, though. A miscarriage is hard enough without thinking you've let people down or it being penance for your wrongdoings. Doubly so if you're pretty sure someone is going to make a storyline out of it.

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Nice to see Josiah acknowledge that miscarriages are not anyone’s fault. He specifically says that - so he’s not a believer of the ‘sin’ theory.     I’m sorry that they lost their baby. I’m sorry they feel the need to explain why they aren’t pregnant. I think he felt like he had to explain- because every tabloid, every fundie gathering is screaming the question at them.  We want them to be different, but we pester them to death with ‘why aren’t you pregnant, courting, engaged, married, etc yet?’ 

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6 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Nice to see Josiah acknowledge that miscarriages are not anyone’s fault. He specifically says that - so he’s not a believer of the ‘sin’ theory.     I’m sorry that they lost their baby. I’m sorry they feel the need to explain why they aren’t pregnant. I think he felt like he had to explain- because every tabloid, every fundie gathering is screaming the question at them.  We want them to be different, but we pester them to death with ‘why aren’t you pregnant, courting, engaged, married, etc yet?’ 

I can only imagine what Jinger (at least) was thinking at this point in her marriage to Jeremy. I feel like she was never pregnant in the first year, because I feel like we would have heard had she miscarried. 

All things considered, I felt like Josiah's (or Lauren's?) message was pretty heartfelt, and I agree that Josiah's message about miscarriages being no one's fault is a pretty healthy stance to take.

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I feel bad for them.  They must be heartbroken.  Even though I don't share their beliefs or think it is a good idea for a 19 year old woman to have a baby, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. 

I really hope they weren't pressured to share their experience.  It has been a few months so hopefully it is a bit easier to talk about at this point.  But these are the Duggars, so who knows?

I will say one thing :  It is never a good idea to ask anyone when (or if) they are going to have a baby.  As someone who struggled with infertility for 3 years before I had my children I can tell you that it hurts.  A lot.  

Edited by 3 is enough
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20 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I can only imagine what Jinger (at least) was thinking at this point in her marriage to Jeremy. I feel like she was never pregnant in the first year, because I feel like we would have heard had she miscarried. 

All things considered, I felt like Josiah's (or Lauren's?) message was pretty heartfelt, and I agree that Josiah's message about miscarriages being no one's fault is a pretty healthy stance to take.

Right, and if Jinger HAD miscarried, this would be the time to open up about it. Since she hasn't, it makes me think even more that she was using birth control. 

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My only objection is that Josiah said "WE"miscarried.  No, Lauren did. 

Yes, it was your baby also, but YOU were not gestating it, Si.  The uterus it grows in is the only one that is now empty.  

You were expecting to be a father.  You were anticipating your child.  But you were not pregnant. 

The women in that clan can't even have that to themselves, it has to be all about the guy too.  Idiot. 

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18 minutes ago, leighdear said:

My only objection is that Josiah said "WE"miscarried.  No, Lauren did. 

Yes, it was your baby also, but YOU were not gestating it, Si.  The uterus it grows in is the only one that is now empty.  

You were expecting to be a father.  You were anticipating your child.  But you were not pregnant. 

The women in that clan can't even have that to themselves, it has to be all about the guy too.  Idiot. 

I agree with you that "she miscarried." However, I have been hearing couples saying more and more frequently that "we are pregnant."  I've heard colleagues, family members, friends, and Facebook acquaintances use it.  I've been surprised by how common it is.  It's NOT a fundie thing.  I live in NJ and the vast majority of people I know are not religious whatsoever.   So if that is acceptable, I think it is fair game to say "we miscarried."

Personally- my husband and I never said "we." He was never pregnant.

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Yes, I know it's common.  And I still think it's ridiculous.  Common and correct are two very different things.  No man can possibly understand what it is to carry a child, whether to term or not.  No matter how sympathetic, empathetic, feeling and considerate he is, he will never experience that and truly understand it.  

The word "irregardless" didn't exist as a legitimate word until enough people used it enough to make it common.  But to me, it will never be correct, regardless of who says otherwise.  😉  

YMMV. 

Edited by leighdear
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"Everyone is expecting us to announce that we are having a baby."  Wow.  Because they knew she was pregnant or because they just figured it's the Dugger thing to get pregnant immediately?  I would think that if they had shared it with some family and close friends they could just tell them, and not have to make a public announcement.  Hopefully they have learned after this that it's better to wait until you get into the second trimester before you announce.

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 I think they announced the pregnancy on September 13th, Michelle's birthday. That would have made her 6 weeks,  at most, if she conceived on her wedding night. 

Edited by Lunera
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2 hours ago, debbie311 said:

"Everyone is expecting us to announce that we are having a baby."  Wow.  Because they knew she was pregnant or because they just figured it's the Dugger thing to get pregnant immediately?  I would think that if they had shared it with some family and close friends they could just tell them, and not have to make a public announcement.  Hopefully they have learned after this that it's better to wait until you get into the second trimester before you announce.

It just goes to show how much pressure there is on these couples to get pregnant asap. Remember that video chat the sisters did with Jinger? The first words out of their mouths were "Are you pregnant?". It seems like whether the woman in question is ready to be a mother or even wants a child at that stage in her life isn't even a factor.

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12 hours ago, Barb23 said:

A couple of the posters mentioned the pregnancy in the comment section of the Florida pucture.

I never realized they believe miscarriage is God's way of punishing them for sinning.  I know Cathy said something similar about cancer & the devil but what a way to torture these couples. It's bad enough having a miscarriage but then having to believe God took the baby from you because you sinned is just awful.  These people are just unbelievable (in their beliefs.) 

ETA: I wonder if Lauren was allowed to see an OB Gyn after the miscarriage to make sure everything is OK. I know sometimes a D&C is required.  Hoping that Jill didn't just tell her everthing is fine & there's no need to see a heathan professional doctor.

So God is keen on abortions.

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Reading their text, I got the feeling they never heard baby's heartbeat. If so, that had to be very early pregnancy. 

But then, I don't know how long they wait for the first sonogram or announcement

I would never announce before 12 weeks, but I have spent years in IVF treatments,and know that a positive pregnany test does not equal a baby

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At first, we kind of wanted to just stay quiet about the news, but knew that since everyone is anticipating for us to announce that were having a baby, we felt like it was time that we told everyone that our first and only baby is in heaven. It is hard to hear when people asks us if we are expecting

Like his bitch of a mother and his sisters, most likely. I think Josiah has had a lot of unhappiness in his life, and now it's probably his 'fault' that he can't breed for Jesus.

And now he's and Lauren are expected to talk about how she bled out in the toilet for the sake of the family TV show?! It's really really sad. The Duggar children have been screwed up in so many ways by their parents.

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They were married on June 30th.  If they conceived then, and announced at Michelle's birthday on September 13, that would be almost 10 weeks.  Not unheard of to let people know then.  Especially if you got knocked up so quickly.  

But yeah, they were in too much of a hurry to get into the "Us too" club.  

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I don't think announcing to immediate family early is bad. I told my family immediately, and I found out very early all four times. I figured that if I had a miscarriage, I would need their support, so I wanted them to know I was pregnant. Thankfully, I never had that experience. 

I just feel sad for Josiah and Lauren. I hope that they genuinely wanted to share their loss, not that they felt like they had to talk about it. Pregnancy and infant loss is a topic that is gaining more recognition,  and considering their prolife beliefs, they may find discussing their loss to be an affirmation that this life had value and deserves to be acknowledged and mourned. 

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9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Asking is just not a good idea. 

My dad always said that you don't ask if a woman is pregnant unless you can actually see the baby crowning.  

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1 hour ago, sleepysuzy said:

I don't think announcing to immediate family early is bad. I told my family immediately, and I found out very early all four times. I figured that if I had a miscarriage, I would need their support, so I wanted them to know I was pregnant. Thankfully, I never had that experience. 

I just feel sad for Josiah and Lauren. I hope that they genuinely wanted to share their loss, not that they felt like they had to talk about it. Pregnancy and infant loss is a topic that is gaining more recognition,  and considering their prolife beliefs, they may find discussing their loss to be an affirmation that this life had value and deserves to be acknowledged and mourned. 

This situation is just warped out of shape because this young couple is in the reality TV business, in a family whose fame is absolutely all about procreating for Jesus. So the state of Lauren's uterus is of public interest - and means bucks to Duggar Enterprises.

The folks on Salvage Dawgs reclaim architectural salvage and other things from old buildings and remake them. The people on flipping shows buy and remodel houses. [Retired] cop Joe Kenda is on TV to recount the homicide cases he worked. We may be interested in the personal and family lives of these people, but that's not what their TV franchises are all about and they can decide how much personal information to share because it's not the main subject of their shows. (Or what to overshare. Looking at you, Chip and Joanna, and the Flip or Flop duo.)

The Duggars are heavy-duty long-time prominent IBLP stars, and those kids must have had Gothard's teachings hammered into them all their lives. The Duggars are really good and really sly about hiding the harsh doctrines from the general public, and TLC plays along. But one of those IBLP teachings that they must have heard is that children are a blessing from God, *and* that a miscarriage is a punishment for sin. I posted the deets yesterday in the Religion topic.

So it's sweet that Josiah posted to his readers that a miscarriage "isn't your fault," but it's heresy in the context of the IBLP party line.

Maybe his narcissist parents have themselves abandoned the "miscarriage is punishment for sin" position, because after Michelle's final pregnancy ended in miscarriage they couldn't deal with the concept that THEY might have sinned in any way sufficient for that kind of punishment. If so, they might have soft-pedaled or ignored that bit of IBLP/fundie/Quiverfull teaching within the family. 

But it's also possible that Josiah is so used to the Duggars' hiding many of their real beliefs in public, that he can somewhat honestly say "it's not your fault" while privately believing it's punishment for sin. 

Who knows what goes on in the heads of these people?

Edited by Jeeves
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Quote

So it's sweet that Josiah posted to his readers that a miscarriage "isn't your fault," but it's heresy in the context of the IBLP party line.

We all know there's a public party line, and a private party line with these people. 

Quote

Who knows what goes on in the heads of these people?

As little as is humanly possible. At least the kids.

Edited by JoanArc
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50 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

This situation is just warped out of shape because this young couple is in the reality TV business, in a family whose fame is absolutely all about procreating for Jesus. So the state of Lauren's uterus is of public interest - and means bucks to Duggar Enterprises.

The folks on Salvage Dawgs reclaim architectural salvage and other things from old buildings and remake them. The people on flipping shows buy and remodel houses. [Retired] cop Joe Kenda is on TV to recount the homicide cases he worked. We may be interested in the personal and family lives of these people, but that's not what their TV franchises are all about and they can decide how much personal information to share because it's not the main subject of their shows. (Or what to overshare. Looking at you, Chip and Joanna, and the Flip or Flop duo.)

The Duggars are heavy-duty long-time prominent IBLP stars, and those kids must have had Gothard's teachings hammered into them all their lives. The Duggars are really good and really sly about hiding the harsh doctrines from the general public, and TLC plays along. But one of those IBLP teachings that they must have heard is that children are a blessing from God, *and* that a miscarriage is a punishment for sin. I posted the deets yesterday in the Religion topic.

So it's sweet that Josiah posted to his readers that a miscarriage "isn't your fault," but it's heresy in the context of the IBLP party line.

Maybe his narcissist parents have themselves abandoned the "miscarriage is punishment for sin" position, because after Michelle's final pregnancy ended in miscarriage they couldn't deal with the concept that THEY might have sinned in any way sufficient for that kind of punishment. If so, they might have soft-pedaled or ignored that bit of IBLP/fundie/Quiverfull teaching within the family. 

But it's also possible that Josiah is so used to the Duggars' hiding many of their real beliefs in public, that he can somewhat honestly say "it's not your fault" while privately believing it's punishment for sin. 

Who knows what goes on in the heads of these people?

Their revisionist version of Michelle's miscarriage as a stillbirth could also be a reflection of that. Miscarriage = your fault; stillbirth = tragedy. 

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On 2/11/2019 at 5:12 AM, Lunera said:

It appears that Lauren had a miscarriage. The new preview shows Lauren and Josiah announcing their pregnancy to their family with a shirt that says 'Mamma in the making' and then cuts to the a scene of Lauren crying and the producers asking her what happened. 

Screenshot_20190211-025926_Chrome.thumb.jpg.cce3eedc96f582042381bb3b6854cffe.jpg

If referring to what JB and Michelle said when they found out they had lost Jubilee, at the ultrasound that was later shown on 19 Kids, not only is "God works in mysterious ways" not all they said, it's not what they said, at all.  In fact, they said nothing even close to that.  I, of course, can't vouch for whether they ever said "God works in mysterious ways" in connection with losing Jubilee, but it's certainly not all they said. 

As usual on that site, however, the truth and facts are not nearly as important as coming up with something that will stir the pot and get people all good and riled up - such as stating the Duggars believe miscarriage is punishment for sin.  Josiah recently posted on social media that miscarriage is not anyone's fault, but perhaps we're to believe, what?  That Josiah preemptively publicly lied to throw people off the scent of his true belief about why miscarriages happen?  Mmmm'kay. ((Rolling my eyes so hard it hurts))

23 hours ago, Barb23 said:

A couple of the posters mentioned the pregnancy in the comment section of the Florida pucture.

I never realized they believe miscarriage is God's way of punishing them for sinning.  I know Cathy said something similar about cancer & the devil but what a way to torture these couples. It's bad enough having a miscarriage but then having to believe God took the baby from you because you sinned is just awful.  These people are just unbelievable (in their beliefs.) 

ETA: I wonder if Lauren was allowed to see an OB Gyn after the miscarriage to make sure everything is OK. I know sometimes a D&C is required.  Hoping that Jill didn't just tell her everthing is fine & there's no need to see a heathan professional doctor.

The Duggars are not and never have been anti-medical care.  Some of them have a preference for home births, yes, but it doesn't follow that equals a general shunning of "heathan [sic] professional doctors." The Duggars in fact, are oftentimes quite conspicuous consumers of "heathen professional" medical care, such as the 6 months or so Josie spent in the NICU, at a total cost of over $1 million (based on estimates from the March of Dimes for that type/duration of care).  And let's not forget the days Michelle spent in the hospital receiving professional medical care prior to Josie's birth.  We've also seen Jinger and Kendra have planned hospital births, in addition to seeing Jill, Jessa, and Joy-Anna seek out professional medical care at some point during/after giving birth.  The Duggars also extensively partake of professional dental and orthodontic care, as well.

In any case, the former is just blatant dishonestly intended to be pejorative and misleading; the latter is a common misconception, it seems.  IMHO, at least.  YMMV.  🙂

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30 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

The Duggars are not and never have been anti-medical care.  Some of them have a preference for home births, yes, but it doesn't follow that equals a general shunning of "heathan [sic] professional doctors." The Duggars in fact, are oftentimes quite conspicuous consumers of "heathen professional" medical care, such as the 6 months or so Josie spent in the NICU, at a total cost of over $1 million (based on estimates from the March of Dimes for that type/duration of care).  And let's not forget the days Michelle spent in the hospital receiving professional medical care prior to Josie's birth.  We've also seen Jinger and Kendra have planned hospital births, in addition to seeing Jill, Jessa, and Joy-Anna seek out professional medical care at some point during/after giving birth.  The Duggars also extensively partake of professional dental and orthodontic care, as well.

Don't forget the use of the very ethical Dr. Feelgood Fedosky - like WTH was Michelle getting other women to sign letters defending his license?

Edited by JoanArc
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10 minutes ago, muffinsandbagels said:

Wonder why they said that this is their first and ONLY baby?    Does that mean that they cannot have any children at all now?

I wondered that,  ut it could also be his awkward way of saying that Lauren is not pregnant again yet. I've known many women to get pregnant almost immediately after a miscarriage.

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8 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Don't forget the use of the very ethical Dr. Feelgood Fedosky - like WTH was Michelle getting other women to sign letters defending his license?

I didn't realize any of the Duggars ever used him as their doctor?  In fact, I thought that idea was brought up then dismissed as just more pot-stirring gossip someone threw out there, trying to get something to stick. 

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1 hour ago, SabineElisabeth said:

. . . As usual on that site, however, the truth and facts are not nearly as important as coming up with something that will stir the pot  . . .

I don't know or care what is being said on another site and I have no idea what may motivate anyone there.

Yesterday I researched whether Gothard/IBLP/ATI takes the position that while children are a sign of God's blessing, infertility and miscarriages are God's punishment for sin. I found that they indeed do take that position. I posted my findings, with sources linked, over on the Religion topic. 

Later that day, Josiah went on social media with his statement that a miscarriage "isn't your fault" - a comment directed at others who've been through that. Josiah's statement is at odds with the documented Gothard position that miscarriages are punishment for sin. I don't know if he really believes the IBLP/fundie "punishment for sin" teaching or not. 

As far as this PTV discussion is concerned I stand by what I have posted.

30 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

I didn't realize any of the Duggars ever used him as their doctor?  In fact, I thought that idea was brought up then dismissed as just more pot-stirring gossip someone threw out there, trying to get something to stick. 

On one episode we saw Jill and Derick going to Dr. Fedosky's office. Can't remember what it was for. And IIRC Michelle publicly supported Fedosky who was in a bunch of trouble with the medical licensing board. 

Edited to add: Here's a post here at PTV discussing some of the details of Fedosky's problems with his medical license (and authorization to prescribe federally scheduled drugs). It also references a GoFundMe page that Michelle started/supported to raise money for the poor Fedoskys - which is "no longer accepting donations."

Edited by Jeeves · Reason: add links
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12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

w Jill and Derick going to Dr. Fedosky's office. Can't remember what it was for. And IIRC Michelle publicly supported Fedosky who was in a bunch of trouble with the medical licensing board. 

Yes, and Jill even instagrammed a visit to him.

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1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I don't know or care what is being said on another site and I have no idea what may motivate anyone there.

Yesterday I researched whether Gothard/IBLP/ATI takes the position that while children are a sign of God's blessing, infertility and miscarriages are God's punishment for sin. I found that they indeed do take that position. I posted my findings, with sources linked, over on the Religion topic. 

Later that day, Josiah went on social media with his statement that a miscarriage "isn't your fault" - a comment directed at others who've been through that. Josiah's statement is at odds with the documented Gothard position that miscarriages are punishment for sin. I don't know if he really believes the IBLP/fundie "punishment for sin" teaching or not. 

As far as this PTV discussion is concerned I stand by what I have posted.

On one episode we saw Jill and Derick going to Dr. Fedosky's office. Can't remember what it was for. And IIRC Michelle publicly supported Fedosky who was in a bunch of trouble with the medical licensing board. 

Edited to add: Here's a post here at PTV discussing some of the details of Fedosky's problems with his medical license (and authorization to prescribe federally scheduled drugs). It also references a GoFundMe page that Michelle started/supported to raise money for the poor Fedoskys - which is "no longer accepting donations."

56 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Yes, and Jill even instagrammed a visit to him.

My point actually was not about what doctors, specifically, they see, but simply that they don't avoid obtaining professional medical care.  As in, going to an MD, a hospital, etc, is not in opposition to their beliefs/values.

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9 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

My point actually was not about what doctors, specifically, they see, but simply that they don't avoid obtaining professional medical care.  As in, going to an MD, a hospital, etc, is not in opposition to their beliefs/values.

You also said this first in your comment, which isn't about doctors:

Quote

As usual on that site, however, the truth and facts are not nearly as important as coming up with something that will stir the pot and get people all good and riled up - such as stating the Duggars believe miscarriage is punishment for sin.  Josiah recently posted on social media that miscarriage is not anyone's fault, but perhaps we're to believe, what?  That Josiah preemptively publicly lied to throw people off the scent of his true belief about why miscarriages happen?  Mmmm'kay. ((Rolling my eyes so hard it hurts))

I was responding to the first issue you raised.

Edited by Jeeves
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I feel bad that Josiah and Lauren are constantly asked about pregnancy, too. Pregnancy is the duggars' brand, and I wouldn't feel one iota bad or Jessa or Jill to be asked constantly about it, since they have run their mouths into oblivion about how holy it is to procreate for Jesus the second you get married, how you have to leave it up to God, how you have to be joyfully available, and just their smugness about their pregnancies / births that they've had. People hounding them about pregnancies doesn't bother me one bit, and I even feel on the fence about joy / Kendra. As for the rest...Jinger and Jeremy said babies were in their five year plan, so they shouldn't be harassed. John and Abbie have stayed quiet about it. Josiah and Lauren specifically said that they were going to take it slow once they got married. How much plainer can they be? I hate that just because some members of the family are smug "I'm better than you because I breed constantly for Jesus" types, that the others get harassed too. 

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19 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

My point actually was not about what doctors, specifically, they see, but simply that they don't avoid obtaining professional medical care.  As in, going to an MD, a hospital, etc, is not in opposition to their beliefs/values.

1 hour ago, SabineElisabeth said:

I didn't realize any of the Duggars ever used him as their doctor?  In fact, I thought that idea was brought up then dismissed as just more pot-stirring gossip someone threw out there, trying to get something to stick. 

No, you tired to pivot. Sorry. The Duggars are just hypocritical - they love the scientific advances of the 21st century, but cling to bronze age morality and judgement.

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3 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

You also said this first in your comment, which isn't about doctors:

I was responding to both the issues you raised.

I thought your mention of him was intended to relate back to the portion of my comment about the Duggars and medical care, not their beliefs about miscarriage.  I apologize for missing your point; honestly, I hardly remember the Dr. Fedosky stuff, so am not sure at all how he relates to their ideas about why miscarriages occur.  Thus, I will step out here, as I am at the end of my knowledge of that situation.  And while I'd much rather hang out at PTV, work isn't doing itself - sadly, haha.

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