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S14.E15: Old Scars, Future Hearts

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Meredith tries to learn more about Marie Cerone’s history with her mother. Meanwhile, Jo is applying for fellowships around the country and it throws Alex for a loop; and Tom Koracick helps April acknowledge her crisis of faith.

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I don't know how this happened, but I like April and Greg Germann together (yeah, I can't remember his character's name).  Those scenes could have been awkward, but they weren't.

Alex can be such a jerk, and then turn around and be a nice guy I feel sorry for.  It's to bad the writers can't maintain this kind of balance with the other characters.

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I hated most of the episode..I liked getting more of Alex's backstory but why did Maggie's have to be shoved in there? Can't Alex get his own episode? Love getting a little bit of Alex/Mere friendship too. 

I did enjoy April and German together. That's it. The rest of it sucked. 

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Okay, now I'm hoping that April is taking off to wherever it is Koracik came from. With him. I didn't know that Greg Germann had it in him. Well done!

As far as Jo and Alex go, about damn time.

I don't really know what to think about Meredith and Marie. Meredith shouldn't be paying for the sins of her mother but Marie shouldn't be taking it out on Meredith. If she didn't have the guts to deal with Ellis then, then it is not Meredith's price to pay.

Edited by anna0852
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14 minutes ago, Court said:

I hated most of the episode..I liked getting more of Alex's backstory but why did Maggie's have to be shoved in there? Can't Alex get his own episode? Love getting a little bit of Alex/Mere friendship too. 

I did enjoy April and German together. That's it. The rest of it sucked. 

So basically you just didn't want Maggie then... 

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Koracik did bring it tonight.. Glad cuz that dude was pretty gross before tonight.. Of course when GE really started getting deep April just jumped on him again because she's not really in a space to deal with like anything... 

 

I'm actually kinda upset Jackson didn't protest a bit more when dropping off his daughter... April is still acting kinda weird.. I dunno if there were any bottles laying around.. And some dude you barely know is  walking around half naked... I know he's trying to be respectful and give her some space not be judgy.. But that couldn't be me... I'm taking my baby girl and telling April to come get Harriet when she's feeling better

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Why, why, WHY did we have to have that dumb Maggie backstory? I didn't even like the Jo backstory that much but at least in the context of the episode conclusion, I can accept it. But the Maggie story was just dumb. We all know that she was younger than her classmates and she's still awkward as hell so the fact that she was awkward then...nothing about it was surprising or revealing.

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I liked the ep. Lots of good moments and it all tied together nicely.

Meredith's story... she definitely shouldn't have to pay for what Ellis did. 

I am still side-eyeing the writing for Alex since others went around the hospital making him the victim for his beating the shit out of Deluca. I am meh on Jo & Alex in general but he does shine when it comes to patients' stories. 

I appreciate that April, despite having a current crisis of faith, is mature about the divorce from Jackson now. She is trying to deal with her mixed emotions in her own way. Her scenes with Greg Germann's character were good and not as skeevy as they could have been. April has accepted her divorce and is trying not to lean on Jackson while moving on. I appreciate that growth since April's marriage dissolving had to do only with issues between Jackson and herself. April isn't nasty to Maggie cause her marriage ended long before Jackson became interested in Maggie.

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I gotta say.. If this is the last we see of Dr.  Cerone its kinda odd the show didn't have her interact with Richard or Maggie.. If she was Ellis' bestie I'm guessing she knew about Maggie (at least that she was born and given up) if the two of them only had a falling out after her 2nd harper Avery.. And if I'm Maggie besides the fact she's tryna screw my big sister out of a medical breakthrough.. She's also someone who can she'd more light on Ellis that isn't her daughter or the man who loved her... And for Richard just seemed like a reunion coulda added some intrigue.. Hope im wrong and she shows back up and we get those interactions.. I woulda def enjoyed them more than the flashbacks... 

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2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

So basically you just didn't want Maggie then... 

I didn't want Jo either. 

But yes, I found Maggie unbearable this episode. I like her in moments with Richard. I like her with Clive but he has a wife so.

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Damn, someone didn't get the memo that Meredith is the sun!

Could have done without the flashbacks, especially Maggie's. Nothing new that the characters didn't already say about themselves at one point or another. Happy for the Jolex engagement though.

ETA: I like April and Greg Germann together. I was surprised she didn't tell him about Samuel after he told her about his son.

Edited by chocolatine
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Other than not being Jackson.. I really don't see what Clive and Maggie had that was so endearing to ppl.. Now Maggie getting in the way of  japril and getting the wrath of fandom I understand (disagree with because the only reasons  I see are the ever popular "no chemistry" which I've seen attached to way too many actresses of color and the even worse "incest " argument) she had so little time with Clive.. The longest convo they had I think was the dinner she bailed on to go dancing with Richard.. 

 

(Flashback)  Jo was blegh.. But surprisingly for me present time Jo was alright the complete opposite for Alex.. He was a whiny manpain baby in the present but his flashback was cool

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I really enjoyed this episode. I'm so glad that this season has finally shown movement for Alex and Jo, and despite not necessarily learning anything new about them from their flashbacks, I did think it added layers to the story. We always knew Alex's mom was mentally ill and that he struggled with it for years, but seeing the context of how it always affected his relationships really stung. It made the final scene with Jo so much sweeter. I'm currently rewatching the early seasons (on season 3 now), so seeing his growth is just so awesome. 

I loved the April / Koracick stuff, too. I'm glad that they didn't sweep her crisis of faith under the rug after an episode or two. It's an interesting plot, and having been raised Catholic myself I've seen a ton of people deal with it (to varying degrees... sometimes it lasts for years). April has had such a trying few years, from Reed's death to her son's death, to her marriage falling apart, etc. Sarah Drew is killing it and Greg Germann was great too. 

Maggie flashbacks... so, so unnecessary. I mean what did they add at all? It should have been just Alex / Jo flashbacks. 

I'm enjoying Meredith's story, too. It's refreshing to see a female lead not caught up in romantic storylines. I hate to see Meredith paying for Ellis' deeds and I'm excited to see how it will play out. 

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I loved the young woman playing Maggie in the flashbacks. I sometimes forget that Maggie was some kind of child prodigy so the reminders of her relative age (to the other attendings) and seeing some of that experience from her view was really nice for me.

I was open to but not sold on the Jackson/Maggie relationship idea. Like others I wasn't seeing great chemistry for it but I blamed a lot of that on the way their chem test scenes were written; even in Greys terms, all of the set up for this was pretty clumsy.  The kiss last week made it work for me, though, and their awkwardness this episode was charming. I can totally relate to Maggie's general clutziness under the circumstances.

I'm always gonna be a little sad we never got to see the Jackson and Stephanie pairing but I'm open to seeing where this goes.

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I liked the episode actually minus anything Maggie and Jackson. Some of Maggie’s scenes with other ppl are not bad but she’s just so annoying I ff most of her stuff. So I don’t see a lot of Jackson anymore either really. 

I don’t know what the point of Amelia showing up was for 2 seconds other then her letting ppl know she’s banging Owen. She’s another character I could do without.

Meredith and that other doctors storyline seemed somehow off to me IDK why.

No interns tho yay.

I like Jo and Alex together and liked the proposal but her flashbacks were weird.

Edited by Marley
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Why is it imperative that we have another episode of the show telling us again how dorky and adorkable and awkward maggie is? 

Then she literally lists her quirks to Jackson and it reminds us again of how “awesome” she is.

guess what y’all? Jackson is *just* as weird as Maggie! He had an imaginary friend too! #soulmates

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I am not sure who is more annoying.  Maggie or Amelia.   Maggie acts like a teenager and  can’t  even hold a it together over a guy but can perform heart surgery?  Amelia and her sex with her ex speech just seemed to be added in to throw in the mandatory “I’m so horny I have to bang all day and I can’t control myself or function with out it” character of the episode.  Her line delivery is so annoying.   In my experience people just don’t act like that in real life and are more discreet.  

And the monologues they deliver.  “I’m a heart surgeon,  I have to perform heart surgery on a heart,  and that heart has to beat and if my hands shake it won’t beat and we can’t go on a date because I have to concentrate on the heart surgery for my heart patient because I’m a surgeon and when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend but now I’m a surgeon”

Edited by Laurie4H
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34 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

 

And the monologues they deliver.  “I’m a heart surgeon,  I have to perform heart surgery on a heart,  and that heart has to beat and if my hands shake it won’t beat and we can’t go on a date because I have to concentrate on the heart surgery for my heart patient because I’m a surgeon and when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend but now I’m a surgeon”

I have only seen scenes on YouTube and I’ve seen enough, but is that actual dialogue? If so I am freaking laughing.

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52 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

Maggie acts like a teenager and  can’t  even hold a it together over a guy but can perform heart surgery?  

I was cringing during that surgery after Jackson walked in.  With all the awkwardness and coffee spilling when they saw each otehr, I was afraid one of them would mess up the surgery.

Edited by izabella
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Oh, please, not Maggie and Jackson! Definitely not Sarah Drew and the weird guy. Finally, Karev and Jo are making it work again!

Bummer over the little livers, but if it were me, I found Cerone believeable enough that I would have added her name to the Ellis procedure. IMO, from what we know about Ellis, it wasn't beneath her to stab someone in the back.

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Amelia's Orphan Black shoutout made me love her unconditionally for an entire scene.

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Other than not being Jackson.. I really don't see what Clive and Maggie had that was so endearing to ppl.. Now Maggie getting in the way of  japril and getting the wrath of fandom I understand (disagree with because the only reasons  I see are the ever popular "no chemistry" which I've seen attached to way too many actresses of color and the even worse "incest " argument) she had so little time with Clive.. The longest convo they had I think was the dinner she bailed on to go dancing with Richard.. 

Well, if people liked Maggie and Clive together in their brief scenes and liked Maggie and DeLuca together, I guess that means it's unfair to project onto everyone that the reason they don't like Maggie and Jackson together is because they think actress-of-color Kelly McCreary has a "no chemistry" albatross hanging around her neck since they obviously seemed to think that she had plenty of chemistry with Blake Hood and Giacomo Gianniotti.  Most people can't stand the Maggie/Jackson pairing because they think that McCreary and Jesse Williams have no chemistry, and that has exactly nothing to do with her being an actress of color and everything to do with those two specific actors just having no damn chemistry together.  Also, not everyone who hates the Jackson and Maggie pairing are Jackson and April fans.

I fully believe Ellis railroaded Marie, and I kind of wish Meredith had been like, "OK, I'll make a public statement."  I get why Meredith went to Richard, but did she really expect him to say anything actually useful?  She was the love of his life, even though she was a monster.  Tl;dr: Fuck Ellis.

Edited by NUguy514
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I feel like the writers keep panicking that nobody finds Maggie as cutesy as they do which is why they keep having her and half the cast mention her quirks. I can't remember the last time I felt this show forced a character like this. 

 

Also so the whole Jaggie relationship  is just her monolugueing how cute and quirky and different she is in each episode while Jackson looks on in amazement and agrees. I'm not sure how much longevity that has now that they're actually together. I think the push and pull went on as long as it did because once it's done there's not much of anything there and the lack of spark becomes very glaring.

Edited by Chas411
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Guest

An acting coach really needs to teach McCreary how to "accidentally" spill a cup of coffee.  That scene really looked like she just threw the cup on the floor.  And who was the helpful person who momentarily popped into the scene to hand Jackson some napkins when there was a stack sitting on the table right besides them?

The casting for young Alex was spot on.  Young Maggie, not so much.

I laughed out loud when Cerone told Meredith that not everything was about her. Meredith looked so gob smacked.  I don't think anyone had ever told her that before.     

Edited by Guest

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I loved the April/Koracik scenes, but the rest was pretty average.

The only thing I liked about Maggie this episode is that her first crush was Howard Wolowitz's brother.

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After suffering through two seasons of shitty emo cover songs, THANK FUCK we got an episode with Kelly Clarkson and TLC.

Despite all the things I've seen Koracik in, I will always want to call him Richard Fish. His scenes with April this week were great. I'm glad she finally got to verbalize how she's been feeling. I don't necessarily want them to run off and get married but it was a good conversation. On a shallow note, I loved that Tom was just strolling around the house in April's flowered robe.

I understand that Meredith doesn't want to undo her mother's legacy with only Marie's side of the story, but damn. I agree that it's nice to see Meredith's storyline have nothing to do with a love interest. I don't dislike Meredith but I got really tired of her storyline last season revolving around her sex life and the problems that caused.

Ugh, so we're stuck with Maggie and Jackson. I liked her with Deluca so my issue isn't with Maggie being a WOC not having chemistry with anyone. It's mostly that Maggie is so freaking immature that I don't want to see her flailing and freaking out and generally acting like a 12 year old who has a crush on a boy.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have Amelia who won't shut up about sex, whether she's taking a five minute break from boning or if she's complaining about not having sex. She just will not shut up about sex EVER.

Loved Charlie's boyfriend, Henry.

3 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Amelia's Orphan Black shoutout made me love her unconditionally for an entire scene.

Same here! Sestras!

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5 hours ago, moonorchid said:

I have only seen scenes on YouTube and I’ve seen enough, but is that actual dialogue? If so I am freaking laughing.

No not actual dialogue but close.

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I would feel sorrier for Meredith if she hadn’t used the polymer without permission in the first place.

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I literally missed Arizona in this episode. Whenever Alex hits a roadblock I always feed Arizona would be a better person to go to but of course Meredith is the sun. 

I still don't get the whole point of Maggie's backstory. Didn't we had am episode in season 11 when Maggie had 92 minutes monologue on her awkwardness and how she was bullied yada yada. Alex and Jo's back story add some layers to their characters but with Maggie it's essentially showing zero character development. Because she's still the same.

I have never been a Japril fan but I do like April's character and wished Jackson would have batted an eyelash on seeing a half naked man at his ex's house. I saw on social media how japril fans were fawning over his concern over April in last episode. Where did that concern went?

I don't understand Greys obsession with Owen's sex drive and propping women after women to satisfy the same.  What was the whole purpose of Amelia's tumour story line if she was to go back to man pain Owen again.

The jolex proposal was cute. And I liked that Jo proposed him (Camilla still needs to brush up her acting skills though)

Overall I wouldn't have mind if this would have been an Alex-standalone episode with voiceovers and all.

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, so we're stuck with Maggie and Jackson. I liked her with Deluca so my issue isn't with Maggie being a WOC not having chemistry with anyone. It's mostly that Maggie is so freaking immature that I don't want to see her flailing and freaking out and generally acting like a 12 year old who has a crush on a boy.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have Amelia who won't shut up about sex, whether she's taking a five minute break from boning or if she's complaining about not having sex. She just will not shut up about sex EVER.

Someone really thinks that writing Maggie as a barely functional adolescent is cute and quirky. It isn't. It's tiresome.

And cosign Amelia talking about sex all the time. I was hoping that would go away with the tumor.

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, so we're stuck with Maggie and Jackson. I liked her with Deluca so my issue isn't with Maggie being a WOC not having chemistry with anyone. It's mostly that Maggie is so freaking immature that I don't want to see her flailing and freaking out and generally acting like a 12 year old who has a crush on a boy.

 

First and foremost, Sarah Drew is absolutely gorgeous.  When she was sitting on the couch (bed?) with all of the sunlight streaming in and her hair was all red and shiny and she had very little makeup on...wow.  I couldn't take my eyes off of her and it occurred to me that, at least for me, its Jackson that is devoid of chemistry.  Obviously, Jesse Williams is a ridiculously hot individual, but he just doesn't have IT, he is just utterly bland to me.  Sarah Drew has IT, whatever that is, and she brought the fire to that relationship.  I think that Kelly had chemistry with DeLuca and Riggs, but I just don't see much there with Jackson.  I think that there are some actors who have chemistry (sexual and non-sexual) with almost anyone, and then there are those who need the other actor to bring it out in them, and I think that Jesse is that kind of actor.  I was never a big Japril fan, simply because I don't understand what they liked about one another beyond the physical, and they did so much damage to all of those around them just to be together, but I never thought they lacked chemistry.  I was just never clear on Jackson's personality, and now they seem to be creating it around the character of Maggie, which doesn't bode well for this couple.  Grey's is famous for using one member of a couple to completely prop the other and that's what I see happening here, right from the beginning.  

 

1 hour ago, beautifulGA said:

I literally missed Arizona in this episode. Whenever Alex hits a roadblock I always feed Arizona would be a better person to go to but of course Meredith is the sun. 

I still don't get the whole point of Maggie's backstory. Didn't we had am episode in season 11 when Maggie had 92 minutes monologue on her awkwardness and how she was bullied yada yada. Alex and Jo's back story add some layers to their characters but with Maggie it's essentially showing zero character development. Because she's still the same.

I have never been a Japril fan but I do like April's character and wished Jackson would have batted an eyelash on seeing a half naked man at his ex's house. I saw on social media how japril fans were fawning over his concern over April in last episode. Where did that concern went?

I don't understand Greys obsession with Owen's sex drive and propping women after women to satisfy the same.  What was the whole purpose of Amelia's tumour story line if she was to go back to man pain Owen again.

The jolex proposal was cute. And I liked that Jo proposed him (Camilla still needs to brush up her acting skills though)

Overall I wouldn't have mind if this would have been an Alex-standalone episode with voiceovers and all.

I agree with nearly everything you said.  What the hell are they doing with Owen and Amelia?  Its just so stupid.  Why did we waste an entire arc on a brain tumor if Amelia was just going to go back to acting the way she did before with Owen?  If anyone on this show has run their course, it seems to be these two.  I wish they would bring Ben back and give Owen his walking papers.

I knew enough to temper my excitement for this episode when I read that there would be Alex flashbacks.  I thought that they picked a good actor for them, he didn't look exactly like Justin Chambers, but his voice and mannerisms were very similar.  I've always wanted to see his mother (Hey New Christine!), but I thought that having her talk to things that weren't there was a bit much, and some of the information goes against what we've already been told, but whatever.  Nice to see that his taste in bitchy blondes started young.  Jo's was meh, but I understood it in relation to the end of this episode, but I am with everyone else, why the hell did Maggie have one?  Yes, we know that she was a precocious nerd and since Jackson didn't have one, I really and truly have NO idea what it had to do with the rest of the story, since it didn't really play into the end scenes with Jackson.  And THIS is why I dislike Maggie, she is everywhere all the time whether she fits organically into the story or not.  Jo and Alex have had, what ONE conversation about their relationship since last season?  And rather than give them a bit more depth, which certainly wouldn't be overkill, we have to shoehorn scenes of Maggie's childhood.  If you have to try that hard to a make a character work, then they aren't working.  I don't HATE Maggie, but a little really, really goes along way for me.  Having said that, I love every scene of her with Richard (a perfect example of someone who has chemistry with everyone), and I wish that if we have to explore Maggie's past to learn about a character, it would be Richard, he needs more to do.

As for Jo and Alex, it was cute, but this development seems both drawn out past the point of boredom, but also completely rushed if that makes sense.  My favorite part was Alex being pissy, because I miss Alex's assholery and I like that as much as he has grown up, the thought of being "abandoned" yet again by a woman he loves, makes him lash out. He realizes he is being unreasonable and I don't think that he would ever really stand in the way of Jo's career, but he just can't help himself sometimes and I"m glad of that.  He is boring otherwise.  I"m also glad that Jo got it, and that she was the one to finally propose.  I loved her telling him that he was so messed up that he made her look normal, and as toxic as it probably would be in real life, I root for these two garbage pail kids, I really do!   I do wonder, though, if that means she isn't going to apply for any fellowships and, in fact, if she will ever take her boards and declare a specialty.  It looks like she is going into general, but we already have so many of those.

Boy did those drama kids make me cringe.  God bless that mother for having to deal with all of that!

11 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

 

Edited by Deanie87
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I see no reason why the writers make Maggie this awkward.  She is no longer a child prodigy/teenager who is younger than everyone else in her classes.  Maggie is an intelligent, successful, attractive woman. Yes Jackson is pretty to look at, but the way they have Maggie acting is ridiculous.

I'm still liking Meredith's SL.

I don't care about Owen or Amelia as a couple or as characters.

Edited by TigerLynx
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15 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

I see no reason why the writers make Maggie this awkward.  She is no longer a child prodigy/teenager who is younger than everyone else in her classes.  Maggie is an intelligent, successful, attractive woman. Yes Jackson is pretty to look at, but the way they have Maggie acting is ridiculous.

I'm still liking Meredith's SL.

I don't care about Owen or Amelia as a couple or as characters.

Yes, not to mention that eve minus the brain tumor, they still have Amelia: "I need sex, no matter what." It's gotten very old. Maggie flashback would have worked more if the entire flashbacks were done with Richard because it would have worked. Things with Maggie's entire: "I was young and awkward." Has been shoved down everyone's throat and as everyone has said, they have tried to make everyone like her and it only works with Richard and Meredith and no one else. That little poem and everything in the flashback and realizing that the guy she liked was really gay. That I could buy, I knew two classmates who were like that in college and I was like: "They are gay and you are chasing things on a crush." Then they did believe me and a couple years later realized not only I was right, but needed to realize, high school was over. I felt very sorry for Alex, but his mother, the entire: "Things aren't there." Was cliche, people like that do more than that, but it's not like the writers/producers at Grey's do any research. Like with Arizona's study which has been done to death.

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Well, this whole show has been about how Ellis Grey messed up Meredith's life, so this result is not that shocking. She is being kept from being "no more than ordinary" (to quote Ellis Grey) not by a man, but by ELLIS GREY! I hoped that this was the point where Meredith would stand up for herself and not let Ellis block her, but no....or at least not yet. I am shocked that she did not talk to Chistina-would have been funny to hear her input on Meredith impeding her own reputation  to protect her mother's reputation. And yes, Richard is correct that there are at least 3 sides to this story and we only heard one since Ellis was such a self centered bitch that she did not even share credit in her most private moments in her diaries.  YMMV

I liked the April/Koracik story line mainly because it was well written and honest, but also because it

Spoiler

made me think about where April is headed given that Sarah Drew is leaving the show. The fact they had her with Harriett only reinforces that there is no way she is leaving without her.

 

Wow, is Alex one damaged dude-if you had any doubt before about why he has bad/weird/uncomfortable interactions with women yet is ultimately a good guy, this episode hit you over the head with it...HARD.

And speaking of hit over the head, did we have enough heart and scar symbolism this episode??

 

Quote

Damn, someone didn't get the memo that Meredith is the sun!

Lots of funny lines on this board-unfortunately, many are funnier than what was in the episode.

Edited by AriAu
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I go back and forth on liking April and not liking her, but those scenes with April and Koracik (thanks for help with the name) were funny, nice and sad.  I give a lot of credit to SD and GG for their acting, but the dialogue was good to which shows the writers can step up when they want to.

I miss Christina and her confidence.

Meredith should definitely not worry one little bit about Ellis and her reputation.  Meredith should concentrate on her own career.  She doesn't owe either of her parents anything.  They were horrible to her.

Edited by TigerLynx
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April and Koracik were the best part of the episode. There certainly was chemistry between the two actors. 

The flashbacks were okay. It is always nice to get backstory on Alex. I always forget that Maggie is somewhat younger and was more of a child prodigy. It threw me off for a second to see a younger actress playing her compared to her classmate. 

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7 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Well, if people liked Maggie and Clive together in their brief scenes and liked Maggie and DeLuca together, I guess that means it's unfair to project onto everyone that the reason they don't like Maggie and Jackson together is because they think actress-of-color Kelly McCreary has a "no chemistry" albatross hanging around her neck since they obviously seemed to think that she had plenty of chemistry with Blake Hood and Giacomo Gianniotti.  Most people can't stand the Maggie/Jackson pairing because they think that McCreary and Jesse Williams have no chemistry, and that has exactly nothing to do with her being an actress of color and everything to do with those two specific actors just having no damn chemistry together.  Also, not everyone who hates the Jackson and Maggie pairing are Jackson and April fans.

I somewhat co-sign on this but I've seen dislike go far beyond no chemistry to trashing her looks and acting. Plus chemistry remains totally subjective. I've also seen elements of dog whistles. And while I'm not totally convinced the Maggie/Jaggie hate isn't shipper based even though Maggie has nothing at all to do with why Japril broke up nor why they've not reunited, I've definitely seen character/actor stanning make things nastier than they need to be towards the character.  I've always been in the minority with Jackson's relationships cause nope on Japril, indifference on Jaggie, and really liked him with Stephanie (and Jerrika Hinton is gorgeous yet her looks were attacked during Jackson/Stephanie too). I dislike Japril and April gets on my nerves but I've liked Sarah Drew since Everwood. I've never thought to trash her as an actress nor her looks just cause I think Japril was a terrible pairing. Personally, I still hope that Maggie and Deluca reunite cause that was my pairing that got me back in to the show after a break and I dislike that the show broke them up to use them they way they did in S13. 

I didn't have an issue with Maggie's back story being included in flashbacks. With Maggie, Alex, and Jo being the doctors for the teen heart patient, it makes sense that all three's pasts regarding first loves since that was the theme of the ep were shown to tie in to the present day epiphanies-of-sorts.  It's no different from when Grey's has used patients in many past eps to tie into the theme of an ep and to make doctors involved with such patients personalize their present day situations/dramas then come to some sort of resolution in their own lives. 

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I am against trashing actors on their looks and while there may be some racial overtones when done to maggie by angry shippers I’ve also seen horrendous comments about april from her looks to her voice and how she should die. Hating characters for arbitrary reasons is not new to grey’s and not isolated to just maggie and Stephanie.

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Damn, those flashbacks were shot so poorly. What was the deal with the vaseline camera lens? They're already using age-appropriate actors, they don't need to make anyone appear younger.

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I didn't have an issue with Maggie's back story being included in flashbacks. With Maggie, Alex, and Jo being the doctors for the teen heart patient, it makes sense that all three's pasts regarding first loves since that was the theme of the ep were shown to tie in to the present day epiphanies-of-sorts.  It's no different from when Grey's has used patients in many past eps to tie into the theme of an ep and to make doctors involved with such patients personalize their present day situations/dramas then come to some sort of resolution in their own lives. 

That makes sense.  I was looking at it more for the end result rather than just telling stories about their first loves, possibly because I tried to mute the tv every time the angsty teenagers were on screen.  I think that it would have made more sense seeing Jackson's point of view as well, just to compare/contrast childhoods like they did with Jo and Alex (for once it was show not tell with Jo).  Then again, I'm still vaguely bitter that what I initially thought was going to be an Alex-centric episode wasn't anything like that at all, so not having Jackson share the flashbacks was probably a good thing.

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I had a feeling that the Jolex proposal that sticks would be the one where Jo proposes. I'm happy for Alex. He deserves all the good things. 

I would've loved to have seen Team Peds working together on this kid, and Arizona being someone Alex could talk to. Unfortunately they've isolated her with Fetal surgery and babysitting the seat filler (sister Deluca), so much so that she wasn't even in the episode. 

I really enjoy Tom Koracick and wish he could stick around.

Spoiler

Sadly, it's possible he could be tied to April's exit, so there goes that potential. 

Amelia's tumor arc is pointless if her and Owen are just going to hook back up again.  I'd rather see her with Andrew for some attending-resident action. 

Edited by kariyaki · Reason: added tags for spoiler
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1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

I somewhat co-sign on this but I've seen dislike go far beyond no chemistry to trashing her looks and acting. Plus chemistry remains totally subjective. I've also seen elements of dog whistles. And while I'm not totally convinced the Maggie/Jaggie hate isn't shipper based even though Maggie has nothing at all to do with why Japril broke up nor why they've not reunited, I've definitely seen character/actor stanning make things nastier than they need to be towards the character.  I've always been in the minority with Jackson's relationships cause nope on Japril, indifference on Jaggie, and really liked him with Stephanie (and Jerrika Hinton is gorgeous yet her looks were attacked during Jackson/Stephanie too). I dislike Japril and April gets on my nerves but I've liked Sarah Drew since Everwood. I've never thought to trash her as an actress nor her looks just cause I think Japril was a terrible pairing. Personally, I still hope that Maggie and Deluca reunite cause that was my pairing that got me back in to the show after a break and I dislike that the show broke them up to use them they way they did in S13. 

Bingo. Every time Jackson is with a black woman it’s the exact same nonsense. People were horrible to Jerrika/Stephanie and now they’re being horrible to Kelly/Maggie. It’s the same exact arguments too. “No chemistry! She’s not mature enough! She’s not hot enough!” While I’m sure a lot of people hate Jaggie because they simply love Japril, it’s ridiculous to pretend there aren’t other factors at play here. 

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In the past, the writers sometimes had Bailey, Lexie, and April get all ditzy or flustered around a guy, and I didn't like it then either.  Also, while Jackson is attractive so are Lexie, Maggie and April.

I know some see Jackson and April as toxic, and that's something that has a tendency to happen when couples are broken up over and over again, and have constant drama and angst.  I know I like April and Jackson better apart.

Spoiler

If April ends up leaving with her daughter and Greg Germann, that's a lot better than them killing her off.  However, if they wanted to thin the herd, they should have started with DeLuca, his sister, his girlfriend, the interns, Amelia and Owen.  I would rather have Arizona and April than all of the brunette guys and girls whose names I can't remember.

Edited by TigerLynx
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I knew things were going south when Maggie dropped the coffee--damn it, show, we're back to portraying Maggie as an idiot. It's not cute. I actually like her character when they make her smart and competent--Maggie taking over when Bailey had the heart attack is good. Maggie so freaked out like a 14 year old around Jackson that she can't hold a coffee cup is not endearing; I don't want to watch it. It just made me think "I would never want her near my heart."

My older son walked through the room and said "what, are they trying to be This is Us?" Fair point. I didn't need the flashbacks. They added nothing for me. I did think the Alex actor had his jawline down so good casting.

Meredith was so off to me talking to Marie. If you are trying to get someone to agree to something you need, it's very odd to aggressively respond to their story. At least fake some empathy. You don't say tell them maybe they shouldn't have given Ellis that much power. You empathize/ tell them you need to process this some, etc. Instead she was swinging from the get go.

the ending scenes with Maggie and Jackson were somewhat better and made me think I might actually like them as a couple if the show had written them in a way EARLIER that created a believable bond--a friendship --something that had me seeing them as a good pair. Didn't get that so any "would-be romantic/I've been waiting for this" scenes are blech to me.

Only thing I liked about the flashbacks is we got to hear a TLC song.

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The Ellis Grey technique has to be, what, 30 years old? Even if Meredith announced that it should henceforth be called the Grey-Cirone technique, who is really going to do that? Old habits die hard and there is nothing legally anyone can do if the medical profession/med schools continue calling it the Grey technique. It seems to be a small price for Mer to pay to be able to use the patent she needs to create her own groundbreaking discovery.

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57 minutes ago, doLLish said:

Bingo. Every time Jackson is with a black woman it’s the exact same nonsense. People were horrible to Jerrika/Stephanie and now they’re being horrible to Kelly/Maggie. It’s the same exact arguments too. “No chemistry! She’s not mature enough! She’s not hot enough!” While I’m sure a lot of people hate Jaggie because they simply love Japril, it’s ridiculous to pretend there aren’t other factors at play here. 

I definitely there is something to that, but I also remember how Rose and Penny were treated. Their looks, acting, they way they talked, etc., all of that was criticized just like Maggie is getting criticized now. Lots of charges about lack of chemistry as well. For whatever reason, fans seem to hate whatever woman comes between a popular couple. Even if the couple isn’t together and even it’s the man’s fault. Penny was even accused of taking over the show and being the writer’s pet (and I think there was some truth to that as well.)

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I like Maggie, and I have since the beginning and I have liked Kelly McCreary since she was on Emily Owens, MD. But I'm just not into Jackson/Maggie, and some of that is my Jackson/April shipper heart, and some of it is the way the show is writing it. They infantilize Maggie whenever she's around Jackson or thinking about Jackson, and it's not cute or quirky, but annoying. If you want me to like a ship, show me and stop telling me, don't have everyone and their patient of the week comment on how much *chemistry* they have. Maggie wasn't this tween girl around DeLuca, and it doesn't make sense that she is when she's around Jackson. It's just poor writing and Maggie deserves better than to be written like a tween girl with a crush on the high school senior. Start writing Jackson and Maggie as equals in the show instead of writing Maggie like she's Quirky.  Maggie is a young heart surgeon, you don't get there without being confident and kick ass. Show me that Maggie and not this Maggie who drops coffee because of a cute guy. 

Someone else mentioned it up thread, but I do think the issue is on Jesse Williams and not McCreary, who has had chemistry with other characters/actors.  Sarah Drew is one of those people who can have chemistry with a tree, and Williams and Jackson/April benefited from that. (I think it's similar to Emily Bett Rickards and Stephen Amell on Arrow, Bett Rickards has chemistry with everyone she shares a scene with IMO, and when Amell shares a scene with an actor he might not like or is involved in a storyline he doesn't like, it shows).

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40 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

The Ellis Grey technique has to be, what, 30 years old? Even if Meredith announced that it should henceforth be called the Grey-Cirone technique, who is really going to do that? Old habits die hard and there is nothing legally anyone can do if the medical profession/med schools continue calling it the Grey technique. It seems to be a small price for Mer to pay to be able to use the patent she needs to create her own groundbreaking discovery.

I think it what it represented. 
People would go "hey why are you changing the name?"  and no matter how you spliced it, it would be (according to Marie Cerone) Ellis shanked her, and cut her out of the deal, minimizing her Harper Avery, and basically calling a dead woman (thus someone who couldn't defend herself, and there was nothing in the journals), a lying thieving cow. 

 

so in essence, Meredith did the "best" thing. she defended her mother's honour, by basically sacrificing her own moment in the sun by not giving Marie what she wanted. 

to which, Marie and Ellis you are both scuzzy. 

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I see no reason why the writers make Maggie this awkward.  She is no longer a child prodigy/teenager who is younger than everyone else in her classes.  Maggie is an intelligent, successful, attractive woman. Yes Jackson is pretty to look at, but the way they have Maggie acting is ridiculous.

I have never been able to take Maggie seriously. She is just too childlike to buy her as some highly competent heart surgeon. I have nothing against Kelly McCreary but she is woefully miscast as a responsible adult, much less a world-class cardiologist. 

There really wasn't a logical reason to include the Maggie flashbacks in this episode, other than maybe Shonda Rhimes just insists of shoving this character down our throats. For Jo and Alex's story the flashbacks served a purpose. For Maggie? Not so much.

It's always a tricky proposition when a show tries to cast "teen" versions of its characters for the purpose of flashbacks. I thought they did just OK here - there was enough of a hint of Alex and Maggie in their younger selves for me to buy into it, but the actress playing Young Jo just didn't look a thing like Camilla Luddington. In fact, that actress is still young enough to believably play a teen herself if they made her up right.  I think this might have worked better if they had filmed the flashbacks with the adult actors and filtered them in such a way that you could just buy them as teens. They did this with Bailey several seasons back when they did flashbacks to her internship.

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Justin Chambers is nearly 50 so while I could maybe buy them ageing down Joand using the actresses I don't think it would work with him no matter how good he looks at his age.

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