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S14.E12: Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

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4 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I think you just don't like the character.. His skin idea could probably help more people his mom just kinds brow beat him into doing the vagina thing.. Worthy cause for sure.. His mom just told him his idea was too far off... And I fail to see how anonoumsly dropping over 100 Mil to help innovate medicine is selfish.. Of course he wants to win.. And stand apart from mommy and daddy and grandpa.  Wouldn't you?? If he hand-picked what to fund and what not to fund he would eventually be called out for playing faves or just ruining relationships.. Now it's out of his hands abd he has a chance to compete like his peers.. His skin idea can help way more than 1% of the population... Again you don't like the character that's cool I just don't think these reasons stand up to scrutiny... These surgeons are hyper competitive and all a bit narcissistic.. Do you remeber mark and Addison and jeez Derek??? 

I agree--I'm not bothered by Jackson wanting to do this contest. To me, it was realistic that he wanted some way to get fired up and motivated. That he had this name and that kind of altered how people looked at him so he came up with this idea. I don't see a downside to it. I just don't perceive his motivation as "I want to get a trophy!!" -but I suppose if you see that as his real reason to do this, I can get viewing him negatively. I just saw it more as someone who is in a bit of a professional slump and felt this would bring their joy etc  back and that he gets motivated somewhat from the competition.

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10 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

It’s him being short sighted and honestly very selfish. This is for him! For him to fulfill whatever professional hole he feels he has. He doesn’t have an interest in helping anyone, he just wants an opportunity to show off honestly. This is shown by Meredith having to tell him that even 1% is still 75 million people. This is how he pitched this to bailey too. How he wants a chance to compete.

Jackson had a real opportunity to make a difference and he didn’t see it. 

Your post made me think.....as you say, if he "really wanted to make a difference", by coming up with something like "spray on skin".....he could self-fund his research.  Either as a stand-alone, vanity project, or in conjunction with the contest he funded....and without participating in that project. 

I did enjoy the vibe of "excitement" amongst the staff....kind of like Grey's of old with the interns competing (no running in the hall!!!!!).  Adds a bit of fun and optimism.   But I hope this contest doesn't take over the direction of the rest of the season....I guess we shall see.

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I enjoy the competition aspect in that it unites all the characters in a way this show hasn’t tried to do since season 8 (if memory serves), and jackson isn’t my favorite honestly but it just bugs the way he’s involved right now. 

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47 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Your post made me think.....as you say, if he "really wanted to make a difference", by coming up with something like "spray on skin".....he could self-fund his research.  Either as a stand-alone, vanity project, or in conjunction with the contest he funded....and without participating in that project. 

I thought abt that after my post.. And I think maybe that would be too much temptation with no real oversight.. So you don't get super tunnel vision which I think any of these doctors would get working on something exciting with a blank checkbook 

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3 hours ago, deaja said:

I know we are supposed to laugh at Glasses’ stupidity, but how did he possibly think Bailey was hitting on him? He knew there was a contest of innovation going on and she clearly was doing some sort of research. Whether it was appropriate or not for her to have him in her house working on research is a separate subject, but it was clearly not sexual.

I think it was supposed to be a gender-swapped play on #MeToo. 

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2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

In all my bitching about this episode, I do have to admit that I found the exchange between Richard and Maggie about her mother to be moving (and weirdly awkward, but I'll take weirdly awkward over most everything else here).  My mom died 10 months ago--right around the time (I think) of Maggie's mom dying on the show and that one hit just a bit too close to home.

I'm sorry, OtterMommy.

As you say about Richard and Maggie: weirdly awkward. Because Richard is at once feeling genuine and fatherly compassion for his only child on the loss of her mother, while also feeling pain at the inevitable reminder of Ellis -- Maggie's other mother, and his lost love -- who Maggie never knew. And shame crossed with awe crossed with gratitude that somehow, Maggie came to be, and be talking with him, about her mother.  

I teared up when Maggie said, "It's not a pen, it's a wand." Beautifully, kindly delivered. 

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1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Of course he wants to win.. And stand apart from mommy and daddy and grandpa.  Wouldn't you?? If he hand-picked what to fund and what not to fund he would eventually be called out for playing faves or just ruining relationships.. Now it's out of his hands abd he has a chance to compete like his peers.. His skin idea can help way more than 1% of the population..

I think he should have stuck with his skin idea, it's more innovative and potentially helping a lot more people than the vagina surgerywhich could get funding elsewhere.

I have no idea why Catherine pushed him to be on her study rather than his skin study unless 1) only people from GSMH could enter and she didn't have privileges there and 2) you could only submit one project, something I didn't hear in the rules. Otherwise he should have submitted both and let the committee decide whether to fund either. Or tell his mother to get her own funding from her own foundation.

I'm tired of Jackson and everyone else being pushed around by Catherine Avery. Put on your big boy pants, Jackson, and stand up to your mother for a change.  Jeez, you're pushing middle age already.

43 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I thought abt that after my post.. And I think maybe that would be too much temptation with no real oversight.. So you don't get super tunnel vision which I think any of these doctors would get working on something exciting with a blank checkbook 

There's oversight from the hospital ethics review board which is a really strict thing.  There's also the oversight from failure/success which is the point of helping people get new skin.  If he didn't want to get tunnel vision, bring some other doctors in on it.

But funding the research himself doesn't get him a prize.  So doing it this way, instead of doing his research outside of the competition, makes the real purpose the glory of winning rather than the good he can do.

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I'm confused why Mer is so interested in this in the first place, she has already won the most prestigious award in the world for doctoring, she is fabulously wealthy, she is both a major shareholder and board member of the hospital, surely people would be tripping over themselves to give a grant to Harper Avery Award Winner Meredith Grey's groundbreaking research on mole transplantation or whatever. 

And I get that Jackson is very sad that he can't win the most important doctoring award but from what we have seen on the requirements to be eligible for the award he has already stacked the deck for himself and eventually people are going to find out that he funded the award. Also he is fabulously wealthy, if you think this is so groundbreaking fund the research yourself, if it is you will be lavished with praise and media attention even if you don't win the Harper Avery award, why do you care about competing for your own money for an award that you started that no one gives a shit about outside of the hospital that you work at?

Edited by John M
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5 minutes ago, John M said:

I'm confused why Mer is so interested in this in the first place, she has already won the most prestigious award in the world for doctoring, she is fabulously wealthy, she is both a major shareholder and board member of the hospital, surely people would be tripping over themselves to give a grant to Harper Avery Award Winner Meredith Gray ground breaking research on mole transplantation or whatever.

I'd like to see a competition to get funding for a worthwhile project that couldn't get funding otherwise, because its researchers aren't famous enough or it's too out there for mainstream funders but it wouldn't be Grey's if Meredith couldn't win.

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The transgender story lines seem like too much, too obvious, too late. This has been covered in so many other shows months ago, and to have two major TG story lines in adjacent weeks seems like a lot. Yes, TG people are often misunderstood and are at risk for suicide. But so is everybody, and the TG control group is just not large enough to make any study entirely believable. TG women are targets for rape. Guess what? So are biological women. So are men of any description. Since there's a TG man role now on staff at the hospital (and I really liked that plot line) I hope they continue with the tribulations of his everyday life and details of how he decided on his gender identity, etc. The plot point with his hacking into the DMV to change his sex on the drivers' license was interesting, but I wish they'd gone into the medical ramifications of this, say if a post-op TG person shows up unconscious in the ER with an issue involving internal sex organs, etc.

The writing was not great for this episode, also Writer Captain Obvious made the young musical actor girl look like a total dweeb -- in that the young actress had to totally overact something that could have been made into a beautiful, sensitive, story line. Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but Arizona's new love interest seems like a stereotype as well. I hope they find writers who can mine deeper and more significant details of the characters.

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So, Arizona's proposal was basically "Let's totally reduce the maternal mortality rate in the USA!"? And it was accepted? Seriously. Of course, they had to find a way for her love interest's character to stick around.

I too don't understand why all these people think this is the only grant the world ever available and are so desperate to get it, especially since some of them are so rich they could easily finance their research by themselves. But, whatever. I don't care about that storyline anyway. I generally don't like it when this show plays up the competitive angle too much.

And I hope that the Raising Awareness Month is finally over and we'll go back to somewhat normal storytelling soon.

Edited by Joana
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8 minutes ago, Maricopa said:

The transgender story lines seem like too much, too obvious, too late. This has been covered in so many other shows months ago, and to have two major TG story lines in adjacent weeks seems like a lot. Yes, TG people are often misunderstood and are at risk for suicide. But so is everybody, and the TG control group is just not large enough to make any study entirely believable. TG women are targets for rape. Guess what? So are biological women. So are men of any description. Since there's a TG man role now on staff at the hospital (and I really liked that plot line) I hope they continue with the tribulations of his everyday life and details of how he decided on his gender identity, etc. The plot point with his hacking into the DMV to change his sex on the drivers' license was interesting, but I wish they'd gone into the medical ramifications of this, say if a post-op TG person shows up unconscious in the ER with an issue involving internal sex organs, etc.

I'm actually interested in seeing TG story lines in shows--it isn't something that I have personal experience with and I'm always willing to learn about the lives of others.  I thought that Dr. Hacker was a great way for this show to handle it and I do want to see more of him.  However, this other doctor and her vagina project is just too overtly PSA-ish for me (of course, it is just one of many PSA's in this episode).  

I think there is something to be said for showing transgender characters as part of a group or society, and not as a poster child or a science experiment.

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4 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I'm actually interested in seeing TG story lines in shows

I do too. I just thought it's been clumsy here.

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1 minute ago, Maricopa said:

I do too. I just thought it's been clumsy here.

Yes, this one (the one with the Doctor who is doing the project with the Averys) was too much.  It's too bad, because the show did such a good job with a transgender story thread 2 or so episodes ago.

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1 hour ago, John M said:

I'm confused why Mer is so interested in this in the first place, she has already won the most prestigious award in the world for doctoring, she is fabulously wealthy, she is both a major shareholder and board member of the hospital, surely people would be tripping over themselves to give a grant to Harper Avery Award Winner Meredith Grey's groundbreaking research on mole transplantation or whatever. 

And I get that Jackson is very sad that he can't win the most important doctoring award but from what we have seen on the requirements to be eligible for the award he has already stacked the deck for himself and eventually people are going to find out that he funded the award. Also he is fabulously wealthy, if you think this is so groundbreaking fund the research yourself, if it is you will be lavished with praise and media attention even if you don't win the Harper Avery award, why do you care about competing for your own money for an award that you started that no one gives a shit about outside of the hospital that you work at?

I think this can most simply be explained by "the contest creates better show storyline opportunities than us watching Avery spend money and dive into research." Remember how boring watching Bailey work in her genetic lab was?

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I’m starting to like the new interns a bit more than when the season first started, at least a few of them. I still haven’t warmed up to Andrew’s girlfriend or the girl working with Jackson (I haven’t seen enough of her yet). I’m starting to warm up to Glasses/Bloodbank and the transgendered intern. I liked his interaction with Owen and their “military speak”. 

I also liked Alex and Amelia together. They’re not together much outside of Meredith’s house, and they seem to have a good friendship/mutual respect. If he wasn’t with Jo, I wouldn’t mind seeing them two of them chemistry tested. 

I was surprised that when Richard mentioned the anniversaries, he didn’t mention Adele. Are we supposed to forget her existence and only know of Ellis and Catherine as his great loves?

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6 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I'm bothered that once again, Alex seems to just be there to hold someone's hand. 

This bothers me because Arizona's character has been messed up ever since Alex became a pediatric surgeon. As we all know that each surgical department at GSMH must have only one person in it, Arizona had to be pushed out and now no one really knows what she's doing and the writing for her has greatly deteriorated as the result.

They should have at the very least had enough decency to give Alex some decent storylines if that was the way they wanted to go, but nope, and now we have two characters that are basically ruined. 

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I dissociated heavily during last night's episode due to the condition of a patient on the show. Of course, the dark and twisted side of me (with its morbid dark humor) was fixated on the fact they were going to end up dying to really 'appreciate' anything about this episode... So I want to apologize if anything is incorrect! Kindly correct me, cheers. :)

Clive: I like this guy! He's not the moron the writers (or Maggie) are trying to make them out to be and I hate when shows do that purely for plot convenience. I could be wrong (this was one of the rare moments I was focused) but didn't he make a snarky comment when Maggie's phone rang? See, he does have a sense of humor! And a nice smile and eyes, if I'm going to be shallow. Oh, and he does not have a Oedipus Complex. I want a guy who does not have a fixation with his mother, thank you very much. And, to a lesser extent, an incest kink... Not trolling, but Jackson kind of changed his game when his mum said "My sister blahblahblah" because before that, he was totally normal around Maggie and became a creep after that comment by Catherine.

Jackson: I don't even know what is happening anymore, but I am glad April is done with him. Also, why is he even involved in this competition? I thought this whole thing was his idea, and then it got handed off to Richard, then to April. Whatever, I couldn't care less and those episodes aired during the more tumultuous weeks of my life when I was coming to terms with a family member's illness back in November/December.

April: I was scrolling through earlier posts in this thread, and I have to agree with what was said by others... why the hell didn't anyone notice something was off with April? Nobody (except maybe my boss) wears sunglasses inside for more than five seconds! Nobody questioned whether she had black eyes or a hangover. They cared more about the rules, and without reading them! April was right in being short with them, and I thought I sensed a "why the hell don't you shut the fuck up and look at me! I'm a fucking wreck! tone/glare from April. Nobody, not even April's supposed BFFL Arizona bat an eyelash when she came in like trash, or walked off limping for reasons I don't even want to think about. Or when she vent saying she drank wine and had careless sex before bed.

* Sidenote that more belongs to a previous episode's thread, but I hate being a necroposter: I truly thought April was going to commit suicide in the shower. She looked so dead when they showed her face in that final scene of the episode with the young boy being shot and killed. But since this is Grey's Anatomy, I don't think even that would have been handled well. After all, just look at the masturbating kid in that exact same episode..

Amelia: First of all, I really came to in the final five or so seconds of the show. The thing I was taking note of while ignoring Meredith's closing monologue was that she had an open bottle of beer in front of her? Because wasn't her alcoholism due to the brain tumor? She was actually interesting for the first time in about nine or ten episodes, but still have that Amelia-in-Rehab air about her that we saw in Private Practice. I may be the only one here, but I kind of like the idea of Amelia/Alex. I pray to god they go down that route if they are going to pair Amelia off with anyone. So, Alex is with Jo but I am long over that. The way Amelia looked at Alex in one of last night's scenes.... Dude, I think they had more chemistry than Jolex have had in a long time. It really stinks that she and Alex didn't get the research grant, but what is new with Amelia receiving the short end of the stick?

Maggie: She was tolerable in this episode, and I liked her scenes with Richard. I may be the only one (remember, dark and twisty mind!) but I kind of got sick at the prospect of Maggie/Richard like... that. At least Maggie is just childish and doesn't have a proper Elektra Complex like Jackson has an Oedipus Complex. They keep coming back to Maggie and Richard's daughter/father relationship and I hope that at some point, Maggie will realize what a good person Richard is and accept him as her father. As a matter of fact, few episodes back, I was hoping there would be a paternity test done, but that never happened. But through consanguinity or not, I hope Maggie accepts Richard as family. He's not too bad a guy, and his character has improved recently.

Meredith: Why do the writers make her out to be like the freaking Sun? I thought that comment made by Cristina back in season 10 was a way of telling her to not bow down to Derek's demands, but Derek's been dead for three years...

Jo: I notice she has black crap under her eyes, much like Meredith has since Derek's death. Is the black make-up under eyes a symbol of being free? I always thought it was a sign of exhaustion. Though, I have nothing wrong with the symbolism regarding Jo, because Paul was a creep and I am glad she's free of him. Also, will she be getting anything from him?

Alex: He was kind of pointless this episode, but I really liked him working with Amelia. As I already said, I can see.... Alelia? Amex? (something like that) happening.

Edited by kinnej5 · Reason: Typo and clarification.
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April: I was scrolling through earlier posts in this thread, and I have to agree with what was said by others... why the hell didn't anyone notice something was off with April? Nobody (except maybe my boss) wears sunglasses inside for more than five seconds! Nobody questioned whether she had black eyes or a hangover. They cared more about the rules, and without reading them! April was right in being short with them, and I thought I sensed a "why the hell don't you shut the fuck up and look at me! I'm a fucking wreck! tone/glare from April. Nobody, not even April's supposed BFFL Arizona bat an eyelash when she came in like trash, or walked off limping for reasons I don't even want to think about. Or when she vent saying she drank wine and had careless sex before bed.

No one batted an eyelash that Arizona took a week off work and came in equally looking like crap minus the hangover except Carina.

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9 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I was surprised that when Richard mentioned the anniversaries, he didn’t mention Adele. Are we supposed to forget her existence and only know of Ellis and Catherine as his great loves?

This show has been on so long that I can't quite remember the chronology of everything, but didn't Adele die before Maggie came on the show?  Since this conversation was between Richard and Maggie, I can kind of see how Adele would be omitted.  Maggie didn't know Adele and Richard was talking about mothers.  That being said, yeah, it was weird that we are supposed to have forgotten completely about her.

6 minutes ago, kinnej5 said:

April: I was scrolling through earlier posts in this thread, and I have to agree with what was said by others... why the hell didn't anyone notice something was off with April? Nobody (except maybe my boss) wears sunglasses inside for more than five seconds! Nobody questioned whether she had black eyes or a hangover. They cared more about the rules, and without reading them! April was right in being short with them, and I thought I sensed a "why the hell don't you shut the fuck up and look at me! I'm a fucking wreck! tone/glare from April. Nobody, not even April's supposed BFFL Arizona bat an eyelash when she came in like trash, or walked off limping for reasons I don't even want to think about. Or when she vent saying she drank wine and had careless sex before bed.
 

The more I think about it, the stranger it is that no one made any notice of April other than her short temper.  April is a character who has been painted in a very specific way since she came on the show.  Right now, she has broken out of that mold--which is great for her character development, but having no one else notice it showed how little the show has invested in the idea of an ensemble cast.  I mean, at the very least Jackson should have noticed something off--not because of any sort of deep love between the two of them.  Instead, if the other parent of your child starts acting wildly out of character, you really shouldn't just shrug it off.

And while I wanted to slap Arizona and her treatment of April (both last week and this week), she was probably the only one I could buy not noticing the change in April, only because she was going through an emotional hurdle.  Although I kept wondering who, if Arizona was in bed for 5 days eating junk food and watching trash TV, was watching Sofia?

2 minutes ago, CED9 said:

No one batted an eyelash that Arizona took a week off work and came in equally looking like crap minus the hangover except Carina.

Except no one really had any interactions with Arizona except Carina and April, and April is dealing with her own shit.  Also, didn't Arizona say that she went into a slump like this every time she lost a mother?  If so, her colleagues who know her well would actually expect this from her.

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Do the other characters know that April is acting out of character?  Other than sleeping with the intern, I don't see much and no one knows she's sleeping with the intern except Arizona (?)  Her "Yes, I'll run the contest... no wait, I don't want to" seems in character for her.

Speaking of Arizona, if she takes a week off work and comes in looking like crap every time a mother dies, she needs therapy more than anyone else, and that's saying a lot for this show. It's sad to lose a patient but most doctors learn how to handle it during their residencies.

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They have to learn how to deal with losses in med school.

8 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Although I kept wondering who, if Arizona was in bed for 5 days eating junk food and watching trash TV, was watching Sofia?

Yeah, who the hell was watching Sofia? At least we got to see the prosthetic leg!

Edited by kinnej5
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7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Do the other characters know that April is acting out of character?  Other than sleeping with the intern, I don't see much and no one knows she's sleeping with the intern except Arizona (?)  Her "Yes, I'll run the contest... no wait, I don't want to" seems in character for her.

Well, she did show late (which is probably out of character right there) and hung over, which should be a big red flag.  Plus, the way she reacted to everyone's questions, while completely justified, was also completely out of character.  

As far as we know, Arizona is the only one who knows (I guess?) about her intern, but April seemed very matter-of-fact about it.  Yeah, she didn't want Dr. Roy to say anything, but that seemed more like she didn't want to be the butt of gossip.  As for people she trusts knowing, my impression is that it isn't a big deal for her.

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2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Speaking of Arizona, if she takes a week off work and comes in looking like crap every time a mother dies, she needs therapy more than anyone else, and that's saying a lot for this show. It's sad to lose a patient but most doctors learn how to handle it during their residencies.

She's never acted like that before. Remember that a couple of seasons ago she lost both the mother and the baby after Ben's hackjob surgery, and she didn't fall apart. In fact, when she first appeared on the show, Alex more or less accused her of being heartless because she didn't show much emotion when children died. 

So this is either something completely new to her and is yet to be addressed, or more likely, yet another BS storyline because the writers don't know what to do with her character anymore.

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29 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Except no one really had any interactions with Arizona except Carina and April, and April is dealing with her own shit.  Also, didn't Arizona say that she went into a slump like this every time she lost a mother?  If so, her colleagues who know her well would actually expect this from her.

I was mostly being snarky devil’s advocate . I feel like 99% of the April/Arizona friendship has always been talking at each other instead of to each other.

 

It was nice to see Carina care about Arizona on a more normal human level. Need more of that if they intend on keeping them together longer term.

 

Quote

She's never acted like that before. Remember that a couple of seasons ago she lost both the mother and the baby after Ben's hackjob surgery, and she didn't fall apart. In fact, when she first appeared on the show, Alex more or less accused her of being heartless because she didn't show much emotion when children died. 

So this is either something completely to her and is yet to be addressed, or more likely, yet another BS storyline because the writers don't know what to do with her character anymore.

If it were a more clever show, I would wonder if it was a bait and switch kind of a thing where the viewers are being lured by April’s more blatant odd behavior, but Arizona is really the messed up one.

Or it could be something as simple as having Sofia physically with her now triggered something inside her. 

Edited by CED9
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17 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Also.. I like the friendship Jackson and Meredith have... I always figured that on some levels they just got each other... No real drama or super intensity ...just 2 ppl who respect each other and could chill with just each other.. But aren't up into every part of each others lives.. Plus they are connected by Richard.. And Mark.. And Lexie abd possibly Maggie so.. Yeah

And by their very succesfull and 'popular' mothers ;)

15 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

The contest would be much more fair if the propositions were submitted anonymously.  Catherine and Jackson are far too powerful at this hospital to ensure the decision making was fair.  And Meredith, being the most recent Harper Avery award winner, would possibly influence the judges.  I'm pissed that Jackson's skin making experiment was dismissed, as if burn victims have perfectly lovely skin versus tight leathery skin grafts.

Agreed!

15 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

The contest would be much more fair if doctors who did not work at GSMH would enter and maybe, just maybe, get selected.

I actually thought that was the point. That it was going to be some 'competition' for Harper Avery. You know like with Golden Globes and Oscars.. I mean I know Oscars are the most important but Globes are very prestigous too..

15 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I am all for lowering maternal mortality rates in the US.  But Arizona's proposal was... "Um... we should do that."  As opposed to every other proposal that was like here is a specific problem that we could fix.  I don't feel like Arizona's project belonged in the same contest.

I feel like there are probably other grants that Alex and Amelia could apply for to fund their project.  Pretty funny if they didn't get selected at all for the award paid for by Jackson (is this award solely for doctors at GS?) and they found another way to do it and won a Harper Avery.  

Arizona's idea didn't even have any specifics and ideas for solving the problem. It was just noticing that the problem exists. I wonder what could she write about that for the whole 3 pages...

If Amelia's team would win Harper Avery would be great :) That's really cute idea. And even don't like Amelia ;)

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Am I correct to assume this contest is open only to the doctors of Grey-Sloane? Or are doctors from other hospitals invited to participate? 10 prizes of 100,000 pretty much guarantees all the main characters will get into the top 10. So who are the ten if Amelia and Alex didn't get in? Some randos we never heard of before?

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Since there are 25 projects selected for the first round and we  saw only 4 groups at GSMH get the nod, presumably there are researchers from other hospitals in the contest too.  We'll just never see them as Meredith wins.

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I want Meredith to win -- everything. Always. She is the sun and the moon and the stars. I am OK with that. Plus she is the Grey in Grey's Anatomy so she is clearly superior to all other characters. Seriously.

Don't really care about anyone else... (I do still like Alex though he is stuck with Jo ..sigh...)

Oh but I did like the scene between Mere and Jackson.  They have a brother/sister vibe I kind of like. They should have made him secret love child of Richard Webber and Ellis Grey all those years ago when he joined the cast.  Instead they gave Mere a slew of sisters...

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1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

The more I think about it, the stranger it is that no one made any notice of April other than her short temper.  April is a character who has been painted in a very specific way since she came on the show.  Right now, she has broken out of that mold--which is great for her character development, but having no one else notice it showed how little the show has invested in the idea of an ensemble cast.  I mean, at the very least Jackson should have noticed something off--not because of any sort of deep love between the two of them.  Instead, if the other parent of your child starts acting wildly out of character, you really shouldn't just shrug it off.

Yes! Thank you. I was thinking the same thing. Jackson and April were friends for *years*, lived together platonically, married and post-traumatic C-section, are sharign custody of Harriet and Jackson doesn't twig that it's wildly out of character for April to show up visibly hungover? It's clear that he doesn't even like April anymore (until another guy shows some interest and then he'll be sniffing around again) but you'd think he'd pay attention in the context of 'she's my daughter's mother'.

It's bordering on painful to see how *alone* April is. Everyone on this show has someone except her. And not in a romantic sense but a friendship. I can get why someone with Alex or Meredith-like personalities wouldn't be close to April but I'd think a Maggie-esque personality might get along with her. Even April's supposed BFF Arizona is really only friends when it suits her.

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2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Although I kept wondering who, if Arizona was in bed for 5 days eating junk food and watching trash TV, was watching Sofia?

I was wondering the same thing. They constantly keep writing Arizona as SINGLE, but forget that with Callie in NY and Sofia back with her in Seattle, she is a full time SINGLE MOTHER. 

But her parenting takes a backseat to her relationship status, as does doctoring for the most part when they can figure out what it is exactly that she does. 

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2 hours ago, CED9 said:

If it were a more clever show, I would wonder if it was a bait and switch kind of a thing where the viewers are being lured by April’s more blatant odd behavior, but Arizona is really the messed up one.

That would actually be quite intriguing and not completely unfounded - for the first time in her life she's taking care of her child all by herself (even if we don't get to see any of it) and it has to be stressful. I hope there's something more to it because she looked and acted completely out of character in this episode. The writing for her has been far from consistent for a long time, but her behaviour in this episode was downright bizarre. She appeared to be so banged up that for a moment I actually went along with Carina and thought her own mother had died.

Sadly, I think it's going to be a one-off that is immediately glossed over as it's served its purpose - Arizona was too down herself to notice that something is wrong with April and it gave her an opportunity to further bond with Carina. 

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1 hour ago, Joana said:

That would actually be quite intriguing and not completely unfounded - for the first time in her life she's taking care of her child all by herself (even if we don't get to see any of it) and it has to be stressful. I hope there's something more to it because she looked and acted completely out of character in this episode. The writing for her has been far from consistent for a long time, but her behaviour in this episode was downright bizarre. She appeared to be so banged up that for a moment I actually went along with Carina and thought her own mother had died.

Sadly, I think it's going to be a one-off that is immediately glossed over as it's served its purpose - Arizona was too down herself to notice that something is wrong with April and it gave her an opportunity to further bond with Carina. 

I absolutely agree that their intention was to show that Carina has started to have feelings for Arizona. Especially since they followed it up with her basically being apathetic towards Owen.

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what happened with singing cancer girl? I either missed the ending or they didn't say, I was thinking a the beginning they would make the audience fall for her only to have her die, that's how this show works. sadly, I always hate when anyone we become remotely attached to is dead by the end of the show, I know guest stars are disposable but it still bugs me. I really liked cancer girl in less than 5 minutes

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If the contest was open to non Grey Sloane people, 3 days to submit is very little notice. The GS people knew it was happening but did others?


Its a surgical innovation contest, right? I don't see how Arizona's project will have anything to do with surgery, as far as I'm aware Italy doesn't have a lower maternal mortality rate by performing surgery on pregnant women.

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Just now, maggiegil said:

If the contest was open to non Grey Sloane people, 3 days to submit is very little notice. The GS people knew it was happening but did others?


Its a surgical innovation contest, right? I don't see how Arizona's project will have anything to do with surgery, as far as I'm aware Italy doesn't have a lower maternal mortality rate by performing surgery on pregnant women.

apparently, they'd have to come by Grey Sloane and get hard copies of the rules, since it seemed like everyone was waiting for April to personally deliver them.

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18 minutes ago, skermac said:

what happened with singing cancer girl? I either missed the ending or they didn't say, I was thinking a the beginning they would make the audience fall for her only to have her die, that's how this show works. sadly, I always hate when anyone we become remotely attached to is dead by the end of the show, I know guest stars are disposable but it still bugs me. I really liked cancer girl in less than 5 minutes

She was supposed to be the subject for Amelia's contest entry by using sound waves to get rid of the tumor but since Amelia's  entry wasn't accepted, I presume theres no funding for the experimental surgery

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1 hour ago, maggiegil said:

If the contest was open to non Grey Sloane people, 3 days to submit is very little notice. The GS people knew it was happening but did others?


Its a surgical innovation contest, right? I don't see how Arizona's project will have anything to do with surgery, as far as I'm aware Italy doesn't have a lower maternal mortality rate by performing surgery on pregnant women.

I was reading about surgical innovation in general, and apparently diagnostic tests that can help with diagnosing/treating etc whatever medical issue falls under the surgical innovation umbrella.

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I wonder if the patent issue is the set-up for a new romance for Meredith.  I read earlier this season (maybe on this forum) that they were wanting a sexy foreign doctor for her.  Maybe she flirts her way to patent access.  Also, it seems like Jo is becoming the new Cristina (see ya, Alex!), and the sisters have been disbanded.  Amelia got Alex in the split.  Maggie got Webber, Jackson, and Clive.  

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1 hour ago, CED9 said:

I was reading about surgical innovation in general, and apparently diagnostic tests that can help with diagnosing/treating etc whatever medical issue falls under the surgical innovation umbrella.

But Arizona's project at this point doesn't involve diagnosing or treating at this point.  It involves a lot of statistical comparisons between countries, diagnoses and demographic information to see what areas the differences are.  Until they know what the differences between countries are in the areas where there are differences (e.g. are there differences in the age of the mothers or  between rural and urban or socio-economic status (i.e. poor women in one country having a higher rate than in the other) there is nothing to diagnose or treat.

The thing is, much of this work has already been done.  Here is the wikipedia article on maternal death, with more than 50 citations and links.  Arizona would be re-inventing the wheel and I don't know how the committee accepted this with so little of her examination of the problem. 

Did Arizona read What’s killing America’s new mothers? By Annalisa Merelli?  I can't copy the charts in that article but to see them graphically is shocking.  I recommend it to anyone who is interested in the answer to Arizona's question.

Quote

Historic data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that right around the turn of the millennium, the US diverged from most countries’ focus on policies to curb maternal mortality in a drive to comply with a United Nations commitment to cut deaths by three quarters globally by 2015. Though the global target was missed, maternal mortality fell dramatically around the world—30% according to more conservative estimates, 45% per the official UN report—between 1990 and 2015. In the US, maternal mortality rose nearly 60% over the same period.

Quote

 

Country              Maternal mortality rate per 100,000 live births. 2015.

Australia          5.5

Canada           7.3

France             7.8

Germany         9.0

Japan              6.4

Sweden           4.4

UK                  9.2

US                 26.4

 

What Arizona was proposing was not only not surgical, it wasn't even  innovative.  I understand the show wanting to bring attention to this but there's no way she should have got the money while Alex and Amelia were turned down. 

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I find it funny, the great Meredith Grey, Harper Avery extraordinaire didn't know what patent rights are and how they exist. And April and her 'co-team', whoever those were, didn't cross verified the same before seeding them.

for me, with Alex and Arizona being most underused character, I would have route for either but with Alex facing rejection, I'm all for Arizona finding an innovative & cost effective way to curb Maternal mortality, which IMO is a serious issue in US. She's looking for a way around the same, not the statistics (can't believe how some above poster came up with that lol)

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13 hours ago, skermac said:

what happened with singing cancer girl? I either missed the ending or they didn't say, I was thinking a the beginning they would make the audience fall for her only to have her die, that's how this show works. sadly, I always hate when anyone we become remotely attached to is dead by the end of the show, I know guest stars are disposable but it still bugs me. I really liked cancer girl in less than 5 minutes

At the end, they showed her starting radiation.

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I hope the cancer girl lives, funding or not. I will fucking be pissed off if she dies. So angry, and not because I love Amelia. As a matter of fact, I've found her boring post-surgery until the most recent episode. I sincerely hope she doesn't spiral downwards with alcohol (like it seemed to imply) and fights like hell to get this girl the treatment she needs. Because she matters more than some silly contest. This episode certainly struck a nerve, not because of my bias towards Amelia or partially because I have someone I love with cancer, but because I find it ridiculous how a legit course of treatment got rejected over stupider things.

/endrant #fuckcancer

Edited by kinnej5
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On 2/10/2018 at 12:04 PM, RedbirdNelly said:

apparently, they'd have to come by Grey Sloane and get hard copies of the rules, since it seemed like everyone was waiting for April to personally deliver them.

The entire contest makes NO SENSE.

I'm not American or Italian but it's bleeding obvious why America has such poor maternal outcomes compared to the rest of the developed world, and it rhymes with "schmo schmuniversal schmealthcare". Arizona's proposal wouldn't even need 50 words.

Edited by flickers
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5 hours ago, kinnej5 said:

So angry, and not because I love Amelia. As a matter of fact, I've found her boring post-surgery until the most recent episode. I sincerely hope she doesn't spiral downwards with alcohol (like it seemed to imply) and fights like hell to get this girl the treatment she needs. 

Did they do something to imply that Amelia was going to spiral downwards with alcohol.  They definitely made that suggestion with April, but I don't recall it with Amelia.  I'm not asking to be snarky, but because it is a complete possibility that I missed something.  With all the crap going on, I didn't have the attention to spend on the Alex/Amelia project (besides, there was just so much singing) and now I'm wondering if I missed a plot point....

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I had actually asked originally (in parenthesis) on my first post in this thread. It seemed to have been implied.

On 2/9/2018 at 3:39 PM, kinnej5 said:

The thing I was taking note of while ignoring Meredith's closing monologue was that she had an open bottle of beer in front of her?


^ What I had asked in my original post on this thread.

Edited by kinnej5 · Reason: Adding quote from original post.

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I may be the only one here, but I kind of like the idea of Amelia/Alex.

I knew As soon as I saw they had scenes together that this would start. Please God no. I honestly feel like Jo/Alex have finally gotten to a nice place where there's no lies/evil ex husband/GBH between them. If they could get through all that id prefer it wasn't a triangle that ended up finishing them off. 

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3 hours ago, kinnej5 said:

I had actually asked originally (in parenthesis) on my first post in this thread. It seemed to have been implied.


^ What I had asked in my original post on this thread.

Okay, I did miss that (both in your post and in the show).  However, Amelia has said she doesn't have a problem with alcohol and they've shown her drinking before.  I will admit that I found this strange that an addict would be drinking.  I'm not expert on addiction, but I would think that alcohol, being a drug, would be a danger for someone who was struggling with a drug addiction.

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Amelia was addict to narcotics but alcohol has sent her into a sprial before. It like that little lie. You start small and it gets bigger which was why she was not drinking previously as it could trigger her back to oxy.  God knows now they have removed her tumor they might say it was all because of that and she’s fine to do whatever.  I didn’t however notice the bottle. You never know they might have simply forgot. 

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1 hour ago, -pj- said:

Amelia was addict to narcotics but alcohol has sent her into a sprial before. It like that little lie. You start small and it gets bigger which was why she was not drinking previously as it could trigger her back to oxy.  God knows now they have removed her tumor they might say it was all because of that and she’s fine to do whatever.  I didn’t however notice the bottle. You never know they might have simply forgot. 

It’s either going to be cured by the removal of th tumor or it’s just normal oversight by greys, much like when we see Arizona walking in heels and earring skirts without a hitch in her step.

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