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S03.E11: City of Angels?

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A flashback to when Lucifer came to Los Angeles; Amenadiel tries to retrieve his fallen brother; Chloe and Dan, still married, investigate a murder of an MMA fighter.

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Enjoyed the show and the humor all through it; a little surprising that they can get away with some of it especially at 8:00 pm (Maze and her torture device of choice being a toilet plunger and Lucifer getting ready to watch "Hot Tub High School" but.............WHAT?? Next episode not until 1/22???  Is Fox deliberately messing with this show? It sure looks like it.

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Charlotte really didn't belong, IMO.  Her appearance in Season 2 came out of nowhere, the way I remember it.  Weren't there other sleezy lawyers from another episode that they could have used? 

I liked it, but I think it needed some more careful choice of subplots. 

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You really can’t have too much of Amenadiel. And shirtless as an added gift. I could watch him and Lucifer as a team every week. And as strange as it is to say about a demonic torturer, Maze was delightful. 

Oh and Chloe was in it too, doing something that didn’t matter much. She was just as bland 6 years ago. 

Edited by Ria
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I wasn’t crazy about this episode, actually. I missed the present-day characters and though I know Lucifer was just being Lucifer, the gratuitous wallowing-in-women scene was just too much. I also wasn’t a fan of Maze’s rapey torture scene.

The training scene with the tournament music from “The Karate Kid” cracked me up, though. There can never be too much Amenadiel.

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Lucifer and Amenadiel make a great, fun team. They're both hot and work extremely well together. I also loved the tibdit that there are no porn stars in Hell, heh.  And angry, powerful Amenadiel? Awesome,

But now that the stand-alone episodes are over, let's get real. More supernatural plots, more depth for Lucifer (he's at least as old as the universe, ffs) and please, please, please, let Chloe find out. I know it's a game changer with its own risks, but in my opinion, it's time to do it. 

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IDK how or when it happened, but Lucifer is no longer sexy to me. He vacillates from overly smarmy to kind of pathetic. This ep, because it's when he first arrived, he's overly smarmy and kind of gross. Sadly, I know see Tom Ellis' overly large nose and slightly crossed eyes instead of his hotness. 

Amendi on the other hand...shirtless Amendi...YUMMMMMM DB is a beautiful man. 

I'm not far into the ep but if I didn't know Maze was coming up I'd probably turn it off, but there is nothing else on so I might as well stick it out. 

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15 hours ago, Arthur said:

WHAT?? Next episode not until 1/22???  Is Fox deliberately messing with this show? It sure looks like it.

It makes some sense. Next week is the College Football Championship game and the week after is the two-hour season finale of The Gifted. I guess FOX didn't want to wait 5 or so weeks between episodes and they're making a push to see if The Gifted generates enough ratings to warrant renewal.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Luci-Amenadude cop buddy / mismatched brothers detective show. And Luci having to tell Amenadude not to cheat by stopping time in order to catch the chicken. Hilarious.

Maze! Too many choices on how to torture someone? Oh, well, sleep with him and get the info that way.

Pre-Lux had ladies wrestling and professional MMA fights. Okay, I guess.

And we learned that Chloe wasn't always so by-the-book and also was rather naive. Still, I guess this was the case that got her the shield.

I did miss Dr. Linda, even though there really was no non-contrived way that they could have fit her in.

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Tom Ellis can usually make anything sexy. But when he dug that strawberry out of his pants and ate it I just about gagged! That was a major fail, even if celestial beings can't get salmonella. 

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They should do Amy-centric episodes more often, because D.B. Woodside stole the show. He did a lot of acting with tone and facial expression in this episode and it was wonderful. His voice when he says, "It's a ROBE", and later reluctantly "I need your help, Lucy" were hilarious. He completely nailed the brother dynamic. 

And the look on his face when he is being driven by Lucifer was my favorite moment in the whole episode! 

Watching him chase a chicken around the gym in the "Rocky" montage was a close second. This show does love it's poultry references. 

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1 hour ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Watching him chase a chicken around the gym in the "Rocky" montage was a close second. This show does love it's poultry references. 

I may be the only person on earth who has avoided Rocky movies.  Could you explain the chicken chase, please? 

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Just now, enoughcats said:

I may be the only person on earth who has avoided Rocky movies.  Could you explain the chicken chase, please? 

The chicken chase was not in Rocky. But the rest of the training montage is classic to that movie. With long scenes of punching bag, lifting weights and running ect.

I'm pretty sure the chicken is just because one of the writers thought it would be hilarious and Lucy likes to screw with Amy. 

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17 minutes ago, CaptainTightpants said:

The chicken chase was not in Rocky

Correct.  But it was in Rocky II.  For the rematch with Creed, Mick has him switch focus from being a brawler to being a lighter, quicker, more agile fighter, thus the unpredictability of the hen makes for a good training tool.  Whether such a strategy has ever actually been used by a boxer in real life is a separate question.

Topic:  Loved the episode.  Lots of laughs.  Maze's exposition on hell left me confused about something.  She claimed that torture in hell was limited to the person's own source of guilt, which gives consistency to the previous scenes in hell that show the damned living their worst experience over and over in an endless loop, and to an earlier monologue by Lucifer where he talks of a soul who would dictate how he wished to be tortured each day.  It also explains Maze's fascination with earth where she has freedom to explore every extreme, variation, and nuance of pleasure and pain at her own whim.  What it doesn't explain is if the damned in hell are responsible for their own torture, then what is the purpose of a demon in the first place?

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2 minutes ago, sd dude said:

What it doesn't explain is if the damned in hell are responsible for their own torture, then what is the purpose of a demon in the first place?

Maybe for those who don't feel bad about what they did? IDK, the whole "you make your own hell" thing only works for good people who do bad things. Not for bad people who don't give a shit about what they did. So maybe she does to the unrepentant whatever it is they did but don't feel bad about?

I have to say, I watched this a few hours ago and couldn't tell you a damned thing about the case. All I remember is shirtless Amend, Maze's entrance, shirtless Amend, Lucy acting like a pervy idiot, shirtless Amend and no Linda. Oh, and a really cluncky backstory on taco Tuesday. 

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I love me some origin-story but this episode wasn't doing it for me. Felt very "after the fact we go back" not "intended all along". And I mean, I'm sure it was the former, but I think there's a way for them to have written it and not had it feel so much that way.

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A fun standalone episode and I didn't miss any of the Sinnerman stuff or the mystery of Piecer (now Cain.)  I was bummed that they didn't find a way to work in Linda somehow.  They even found a way to get Charlotte in there somehow.

This was definitely Amenadiel's episode.  D.B. Woodside killed it here.  Loved every one of his deadpan reactions and annoyances over Earth and Lucifer being Lucifer.  The scene when he tried to report the crime to Chloe while dressed in that silly T-shirt, trunks, and cap/sunglasses had me howling.  And pretty much all the banter and arguments between him and Lucifer.  Woodside and Tom Ellis really have good chemistry with one another.

Totally called the murder mystery though, since the owner was veteran character actor Chris Mulkey and I knew he wasn't just going to be around for one mere scene.

Maz in her torture outfit was a sight to behold.  And I still get a kick out of the love/hate chemistry between her and Amenadiel.

The stuff with Dan/Chloe was kind of boring, but I guess it was interesting seeing what there relationship was like before it went all south.

Most importantly of all, we got to see the origins of Lux!

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3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I agree. I used to find him kind of charming, but now he just annoys me.

He used to be suave. But this season has lost much of that charm. 

Edited by Ria
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I did like that they established Lucifer used to make excursions from Hell and eventually get rounded up by Amenadiel—explained previous comments he's made about knowing historical figures while they were on earth. It seems that angels' wings are the key to how they travel from one plane of existence to another, and amputating his cost him that power?

I wish Mazikeen had showed up wearing her true face, since she was just interacting with angels and someone she wanted to intimidate into giving up information.

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So, wait wait wait wait wait. So, Lucifer had a habit to go off on vacations from being Hell? Are the screen-writers now on every stand-alone episode are going to pull Once Upon A Time syndrome now? I.e., let's just make stuff up as it goes, disregarding that it may contradict what was already established (well, in Once case it 100 percent of the time, in Lucifer's not so much, but keep at it and you will get there eventually). Also, if angels can't fight other angels, then what was the deal with Amenadiel and Uriel, Uriel and Lucifer clash (sure, Uriel beat the crap out of Amenadiel when he was not an Angel, but Lucifer insisted he fight Uriel), and then the semi-fight between Amenadiel and Lucifer in the ring in this flash-back episode? Furthermore, I'm surprised that the screen-writers allowed Maze character to rape a guy (btw, that was not a toiletree, which someone here mentioned, but a dildo), having regard to today's social issues (#MeToo). Also, having regard to Maze, if you ain't going to show us real torture, then stop talking about it. It becomes annoying after a while.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but this season is just... ugh...

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1 hour ago, Rushmoras said:

if angels can't fight other angels,

Angels are allowed to fight other angels (and pretty much anything else).  However they are forbidden by God from directly killing human beings. 

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14 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Angels are allowed to fight other angels (and pretty much anything else).  However they are forbidden by God from directly killing human beings. 

That's not what Amenediel said to Lucifer in this episode, though.

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2 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

(btw, that was not a toiletree, which someone here mentioned, but a dildo),

It was clearly shown to be a toilet plunger in the first scene in the bedroom.  It had dildo-like qualities at the handle (which now I think of it a lot of them do...ugh), but it was a plunger.  Which I didn't like because of how many real-life cases have involved (sometimes fatal) use of toilet plungers.

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Angels are allowed to fight other angels (and pretty much anything else).  However they are forbidden by God from directly killing human beings. 

1 hour ago, Rushmoras said:

That's not what Amenediel said to Lucifer in this episode, though.

I thought they weren't allowed to fight where humans could see?  But I agree they've been fuzzy on this issue.

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19 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

It was clearly shown to be a toilet plunger in the first scene in the bedroom.  It had dildo-like qualities at the handle (which now I think of it a lot of them do...ugh), but it was a plunger.  Which I didn't like because of how many real-life cases have involved (sometimes fatal) use of toilet plungers.

I thought they weren't allowed to fight where humans could see?  But I agree they've been fuzzy on this issue.

Yes, he said that humans could not see any sign of divinity, but also he said that it is forbidden by God for angels to fight against each other. Which, come to think of it, every rule was broken in this show. And only repercussion was Amenadiel's loss of Grace (but not because of those things, which I've said (presumably)).

Edited by Rushmoras

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I thought the episode demolished the plot of season 1 which is essentially Amen trying to convince Lucy to go back. But the deal to let Lucy be breaks that entirely. Also it reinforces this new idea that Lucy and Maze are absolutly useless in hell : now all souls create their own hell and none has ever been able to escape. Maze doesn't even have choice in the torture tools so why did she want to go back and plotted with Amenadiel if it's to do nothing ? One can't punish the other one can't properly torture.

Edited by JonasArm
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7 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

So, wait wait wait wait wait. So, Lucifer had a habit to go off on vacations from being Hell? Are the screen-writers now on every stand-alone episode are going to pull Once Upon A Time syndrome now? I.e., let's just make stuff up as it goes, disregarding that it may contradict what was already established 

Did they establish that this was the first time Lucifer came to earth previously?

 

7 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Furthermore, I'm surprised that the screen-writers allowed Maze character to rape a guy (btw, that was not a toiletree, which someone here mentioned, but a dildo), having regard to today's social issues (#MeToo).

The episode would have been filmed long before "MeToo" as it's one of the leftovers from S2.

 

7 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Also, having regard to Maze, if you ain't going to show us real torture, then stop talking about it. It becomes annoying after a while.

So, you mind that they allow Maze to rape a guy but you wouldn't mind if they showed torture?

I don't mind that they're not showing it. What annoyed me more were all the times they almost "went there" and then something happened and they didn't. It was almost as if they were afraid to follow through on the characters they had established. Kind of like, they're bad! ... Wait, not that bad.

 

4 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Yes, he said that humans could not see any sign of divinity, but also he said that it is forbidden by God for angels to fight against each other. Which, come to think of it, every rule was broken in this show. And only repercussion was Amenadiel's loss of Grace (but not because of those things, which I've said (presumably)).

I guess, it shows that angels aren't prefect either. :-)

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You know, when Lucy/Maze talk about souls in hell choosing their own torture, it doesn't actually mean that they are consciously picking that torture. Rather, their sins inform and determine what happens to them in Hell.  

So if someone went to Hell because they killed and eviscerated someone, the demons would torture them by killing and eviscerating the sinner over and over again.

Has nothing to do with good people doing bad things or bad people doing bad things, it just means that sins committed on Earth will be reflected in how the sinner is dealt with in Hell.

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Except the hell we’ve seen has been people living their worst moments over and over. 

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Amenadiel really is the best, he nails humor and drama, and he and Lucifer have a great dynamic. Its very brotherly, even when they get all biblical on each other. Even though he and Lucifer look absolutely nothing alike, I totally buy them being related. So, yeah, more Amenadiel please? 

This was fun, but I hope it leads to a more dynamic story when the show comes back. More supernatural adventures, more of Lucifer as the actual King of Hell (who amuses himself helping the cops and becoming a better guy), and more fun. 

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16 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So, you mind that they allow Maze to rape a guy but you wouldn't mind if they showed torture?

Nope, I don't mind at all, because in these kind of shows, if the quasi-rape/sexual harassment is not being done to the woman or to a lead character, or they are not investigating a case, then it is a non-issue in their own world, and is not an issue for the viewer.

What I don't like is for Maze and Lucifer to constantly talk about how Maze is going to torture somebody, but not show it (or even when they do show it (Sinner Man for instance), the victim is not worse for wear when he started from). It gets tiresome.

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I think they are trying to play it both ways with Maze. Portray her as a ruthless torturer who enjoys inflicting pain. But capable of caring and empathy with her friends and worthy of being friends with Linda, Chloe and Trixie. Actually showing her torturing and showing her victims severely injured, would make it hard to portray her as not such a bad person for a demon. 

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Yes, Maze is the epitome of telling not showing. I think they are afraid to show her in full demon mode because they fear the audience will stop liking her. This, however, was the perfect opportunity to do it, because they could have written it off as "this was Maze when she first got here, but see how far she has come!" But they copped out and had her rape the guy? UGH I think they are leaning way too hard on titillation on this show. It's crossing over into really bad soft core porn at this point. It's a real turn off. I'd rather have had Maze torture the guy, they don't have to show it (I don't like torture porn at all) but switch to Lucy in the other room listening with a big grin on his face because he knows his #1 is getting the job done. Have Maze come out all satisfied because she finally got to choose her own form of torture instead of being stuck doing whatever her victim had done to get into hell. Instead they went with sex, probably trying to make the show sexier, but for me it failed. 

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On 1/3/2018 at 11:51 AM, CheshireCat said:

Did they establish that this was the first time Lucifer came to earth previously?

When Lucifer was strutting down the street at the beginning of the episode wearing what I'll call a Tony Manero suit from Saturday Night Fever, he speaks to one woman who tells him that her grandfather still has a suit like that one.  Insulted, Lucifer replies that the suit was the height of style the last time he was here.  From that exchange, I inferred that he had visited earth sometime in the late 70s.

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5 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

When Lucifer was strutting down the street at the beginning of the episode wearing what I'll call a Tony Manero suit from Saturday Night Fever, he speaks to one woman who tells him that her grandfather still has a suit like that one.  Insulted, Lucifer replies that the suit was the height of style the last time he was here.  From that exchange, I inferred that he had visited earth sometime in the late 70s.

Well, yes. I was just wondering because the post I was responding to mentioned Lucifer having been on earth before and wondered if the writers were now making stuff up as they went along which contradicted what they had said previously.

 Maybe I misunderstood the post I was replying to but I thought it was meant to mean that the show had established that Lucifer had not been to earth before this trip and this episode said differently. I can't recall that they established that there were no other trips to earth. All I remember from the pilot is that they said that he came to earth five years before (I think) and decided to stay. If they mentioned that he had never been to earth before then I forgot about it, so I thought I'd check :-) (Although, I have to admit, his whole behavior did/does suggest that it was/is his first trip to earth but it also suggests that he hasn't been on earth for five years already by the time the pilot starts, so I can easily overlook that)

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One other thing to consider -- in Hell, maze tortures to punish.  In this case, Lucifer wanted information, and physical torture is the worst way to get that.  Moreover, my impression was that The Hostage was somewhat overwhelmed by Maze but that the sex was (at least somewhat) consensual.  If maze has even a bit of succubus in her, the line between consensual and rape gets even blurrier.

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10 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Maybe I misunderstood the post I was replying to but I thought it was meant to mean that the show had established that Lucifer had not been to earth before this trip and this episode said differently. I can't recall that they established that there were no other trips to earth. All I remember from the pilot is that they said that he came to earth five years before (I think) and decided to stay. If they mentioned that he had never been to earth before then I forgot about it, so I thought I'd check :-) (Although, I have to admit, his whole behavior did/does suggest that it was/is his first trip to earth but it also suggests that he hasn't been on earth for five years already by the time the pilot starts, so I can easily overlook that)

In a previous episode, Luci has a signed first edition from Shakespeare thanking him for suggesting a plot point (or something similar). I haven't read the comics, but often Lucifer is depicted as appearing on Earth to tempt people into selling their souls in exchange for riches, power, acclaim, etc. I admit that doesn't explain why he hadn't been back on Earth for 35 years, or if he just meant that he hadn't taken a vacation for that long.

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5 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

I admit that doesn't explain why he hadn't been back on Earth for 35 years, or if he just meant that he hadn't taken a vacation for that long.

Given his "Saturday Night Fever" suit, we can presume he hadn't been to Earth between that time and now. 

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