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S03.E21: Snow Drifts/S03.E22: There's No Place Like Home

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Episode description for 3.21 and 3.22 from thetvdb.com

 

While Mary Margaret and David celebrate the naming of their son at a coronation in Granny's Diner, Emma and Hook are pulled into Zelena's time portal and find themselves in the Enchanted Forest of the past. But in their quest to discover a way back, they must be careful not to change ANYTHING or risk altering the lives of their friends and family - as well as their very own existence.

 

 

 

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Here's the press release!

 

"Snow Drifts"/"There’s No Place Like Home"

- While Mary Margaret and David celebrate the naming of their son at a coronation in Granny’s Diner, Emma and Hook are pulled into Zelena’s time portal and find themselves in the Enchanted Forest of the past. But in their quest to discover a way back, they must be careful not to change ANYTHING or risk altering the lives of their friends and family — as well as their very own existence, on the two-hour season finale of “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, MAY 11 (8:00-10:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

 

 

 

Guest starring in “Snow Drifts” are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Anastasia Griffith as Abigail/Kathryn, Tony Amendola as Geppetto, Meghan Ory as Ruby/Red, Alex Zahara as King Midas, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Rebecca Mader as Zelena, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Gabe Khouth as Sneezy, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Sean Maguire as Robin Hood, Christopher Gauthier as Smee and Charles Mesure as Black Beard.

 

 

Guest starring in “There’s No Place Like Home” are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Keegan Connor-Tracy as Blue Fairy/Mother Superior, Meghan Ory as Ruby/Red, Raphael Sbarge as Archie Hopper/Jiminy Cricket, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Sarah Bolger as Aurora, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Gabe Khouth as Sneezy, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Mig Macario as Bashful, Sean Maguire as Robin Hood, Eric Keenleyside as Sir Maurice/Moe French and Raphael Alejandro as Roland.

 

 

“Snow Drifts” was written by David H. Goodman & Robert Hull and directed by Ron Underwood.
“There’s No Place Like Home” was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Ralph Hemecker.

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I'm really hoping they stay in the Enchanted Forest for at least a portion of next season.  At least that may stop Emma with the "NYC is so awesome" talk.  Trying not to have too many expectations or I'll end up disappointed *cough HIMYM Finale cough*

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Based on the first promo there--can we please stay in one place for a season or two?   All this world-jumping is driving me nuts.  Slow down, cut some of the fat, and focus on building the relationships we have now.  I'm so tired of being filled in on important story beats via Twitter.   Just take a season and give me some real character development.

Edited by haydensterling
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I dunno. It looks like a helluva lot of fun. For the writers, the actors and the vast majority of viewers. This is the fantastical stuff that makes this show such a delightful, escapism trip.

 

Their chaotic and frantic journeys all over creation and back are what separates them from the stagnant status of other TV fare.

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So.....we're doing a Frozen theme next season?

And poor Regina. Just can't win with the Charmings around.

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So blue dress is WHO? We've had the blue dresses on before, right? So is this a new one, or one of the previous?

 

And I'm totally Captain Swan, if I hadn't been before, I would be now. Sorry, that's just me....

 

ETA: Okay, blue dress could be from Frozen. Still wrapping my mind around these episodes.

Edited by stacey

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So blue dress is WHO? We've had the blue dresses on before, right? So is this a new one, or one of the previous?

It's Elsa from Frozen. I remember reading an article about how the show runners are huge fans. I wonder if they're going to get Kristen Bell to be Anna.

I can't believe they messed with the original Snow-Charming meeting. I'll forgive them because Emma finally isn't running away but man, I cannot believe they changed it.

I'm guessing they wanted Graham for the end scene with Regina shouting about chasing after Snow then.

Edited by SnoGirl
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I enjoyed myself. 

 

I liked all the scenes with Snow and Charming and I actually like Emma and Hook as a pairing so I was ok with their stuff as well.   I liked how the some things chanced but some things didn't how Emma couldn't help but recognize people and how they were like "Who are you."  

 

Poor Regina.  Just her luck that she finally gets her heart back and her true love and then Emma just happens to bring Robim's wife from the past.  Does this mean we will be getting the Evil Queen back?  

 

Elsa from Frozen?  Of course Elsa from Frozen.  Ok I have already seen the movie so at least I will know what is going on.  

 

All in all not a bad season finale.....but Emma seriously you are from this Realm have you never seen Back to the Future.  Do not mess with the past.  Bad Bad things happen  You were warned.  Several times. 

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I mostly enjoyed this episode even though I'm not a Captain Swan fan. I really loved when Emma finally called her parents "mom" and "dad". I didn't like the changing of Snow and Charming's past.

What made NO sense to me was that the stranger ended up being Marian. This would mean that Marian was still alive at the time Tinkerbell brought Regina to Robin, which is homewrecking awfulness. It also means Regina killed Marian without Robin knowing about it, which is confusing.

I also just out-and-out disliked that it was Marian just because it was nice to see Regina happy. But I guess that couldn't last. I wonder if Robin will have any emotional struggles between the two. I was expecting the stranger to be our next Big Bad.

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I am saying it now, I have no problem with the baby being named Neal.  It makes sense and keeps his memory alive for Henry, who never got to say goodbye (and yes, I was a SwanFire fan) and it's a way to honor his sacrifice.

 

So much for a "splashy" wedding.  As a Rumbelle fan, I was a bit disappointed.  And I know Rumple's lies will come back and bite him.      

 

I always love Rumple and Emma, and this was the best of it.  It was great at the end, when she convinced him to take the potent to preserve the future.  

 

It's going to be getting a little cold next year in Storybrooke, methinks.  I just hope they did get Kristen Bell for Anna.

Edited by MSquared
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My immediate first thought was that it was going to be Katherine. The blue dress sort of reminded me of the one she was wearing. Remind me what happened to her guy--Frederick? I don't even remember. Perhaps Snowing meeting later was changing the past for the worst, and since she is Midas' daughter, it manifested by turning her into an ice princess. It was also weird how they made sure to point her out in the beginning at the diner, but I guess that was in lieu of showing her on the previouslies. 

 

But I know that's reaching...I'm just waiting to find out Cora has another daughter she and Rumple ignored in favor of Regina and oh, look: her name is Elsa. Oye.

 

Hated Regina jumping on Emma when she really had no idea who Marion was at all. Hated Marion coming back to Storybrooke too. I thought Hook would just drop her "accidentally" or something. I loved Emma and Hook interacting in the Enchanted Forest. That knight Regina yelled at should have been Jamie Dornan, sigh. I also loved Emma and Rumple at the portal--her convincing him to take the potion was great.

Edited by Amelia
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Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the episode and I was glad to see all the wrap up of the major arcs. I am just ridiculously disappointed that they chose to grab at Frozen so quickly. They are clearly pandering on the popularity of that movie and I'm sure Disney had a hand in it too. I guess I should have seen it coming with the stuffed Mickey at the beginning.

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That's the most I have ever enjoyed this show. I loved every damn minute, up to the very end. Friggin brilliant start to finish. 

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this was what I posted on twop:

 

I *loved* this finale. As a full on capitanswan shipper this was awesome. :)  I loved all the snowing scenes as well. As someone that has never really warmed up to Regina I was not upset with her not getting her happy ending. did she not care at all that she was the one that murdered (or would have) Robin's wife? no, it's all Emma's fault. She's always been good at blaming others and it looks like that has never changed.
the rumbelle wedding. whatevernaming the baby Neal...not happy about that.
I never got to see Frozen so I don't really care about Elsa? coming to storybrooke
I am glad Emma got her white magic back due to her love for her family and not a true love kiss as some people were speculating. that's too soon for emma and hook.  her calling her parents mom and dad was so good.

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What made NO sense to me was that the stranger ended up being Marian. This would mean that Marian was still alive at the time Tinkerbell brought Regina to Robin, which is homewrecking awfulness.

I think that when Tinkerbell brought Regina to Robin, it was before Robin was with Marian. Regina was still much younger and seemingly fairly newly married then -- possibly as much as ten years ago. So if Regina had met Robin then, he might never have met Marian. But she didn't, so he did.

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Can someone help me out? Our local station interrupted with commercials at one point. It was right after Emma appeared to get the wand to work. And it jumped back in with Rumpelstiltskin's "What the hell am I doing in here??" (which, agreed: line reading of the night, and also what we were all screaming at the TV).

 

But it was all fine and good until 1) the baby was named Neal (so awkward for Emma), and 2) the writers hated Regina AGAIN. Everything up until that point I was fine with, I think. This show is really trying to get me to hate it.

Edited by TJtrack99

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I don't have an issue with Regina's reaction. Emma did say she brought the woman back; and the woman turns out to be Marion. Anger is appropriate. Hopefully they can work it out somehow without going back to the Evil route though.

 

As for Elsa showing up, in hindsight that seems obvious. I half expected Maleficent back (given the movie this summer), but that would be too many wrinkles. I do wonder how Elsa fits in with the existing cast (and I don't mean the Charming family tree). I almost hope this is just a teaser and it wraps up quickly, but I'm not sure what other worlds they can go to. 

 

The ep itself, I found it fun. It was the Back to the Future story line/trope (lampshaded right at the beginning, and complete with the family photo (album) clock.) At least it looks like Storybrook is staying put for a change. Had they sent everyone back again (and brought them back again), I'd be demanding frequent Universe Traveller miles for all the inhabitants. 

 

I noticed Hook didn't say WHO he sold the ship to; they're probably leaving that open for next season, and frankly I'm curious about what comes from that. I doubt Elsa was the one who bought it after all. 

 

I was really expecting them to get back and Neil to be back, but the memory potion seems to have taken. Still, the hook is there to bring him back somehow now; the thread in the space-time tapestry has been tugged. 

 

My main quibble about the ep itself, was Snow admitting the dark fairy dust was sand while still standing on the troll bridge. They should've gotten OFF the bridge first and THEN revealed it was a fake. Frankly, I wanted to slap both of them for not getting out as soon as possible. 

Edited by Taeolas

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I know nothing about Frozen and haven't read any spoilers (if there even are any regarding next season), but what if this is a tease for Narnia? There was that icy queen woman in that film...

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I not only predicted they'd name him Neal, I think it's the best choice. Sorry. I never liked Neal, but in tonight's episode he finally looked good enough for Emma. Must've gone to a spa.

Favorite line was Hook: Anyone fluent in bug?

And that bug did totally embody Snow's personality. Heh.

Regina still needs to learn that lesson. Sigh. Why not just have a scene of Robin and Regina on a carousel riding sharks?

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I was curious as to the next Narnia film- Disney doesn't have the rights. The Mark Gordon Company has the rights and they are (supposedly) in pre-production, as per Wiki. (They have named their screenwriter, so pre-pre-production, I guess.) The C.S. Lewis estate has a moratorium on film rights (ending in 2018) so Disney may have wanted the White Witch, but they can't have her.

Edited by Actionmage

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I haven't seen frozen and haven't been tempted to. So, I will go into next season without a clue. Wonder what that will do to my enjoyment of next season.

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I'm also curious about the "when" portion of the time portal. Why did it send Emma and Hook to that time? Zelena wanted to go back further than that, and she was the creator.

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I'm also curious about the "when" portion of the time portal. Why did it send Emma and Hook to that time? Zelena wanted to go back further than that, and she was the creator.

I think there was a brief convo between Hook and Emma about this, and they figured it was based on Emma's thoughts at the moment. No?

When the camera went back to the time travel portal to see exactly what else Emma had brought back with her, my personal collection of stories and familiarity with special effects interpreted in this order:

Genie in a bottle > Jafar > Silver Surfer > whoa, it really is Silver Surfer > Blond Disney Princess Evil Twin

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Reposted from TWOP:

 

First: oh my god, guys, MY FEELS when Emma said “Mom…Dad…I missed you!” The rest of the episode was somewhere between okay and good, probably more toward the good side but not quite there, but that moment SLAYED me. Charming Family Feels!!!! With the Charming Family Reunion Music! My FEELS!

 

(The writers promptly ruined it by naming the baby Neal, but whatever, I’m pretending that didn’t happen. Also, Emma didn’t seem to mind, so I guess it’s okay. I'm just going to mentally insert static when they say the baby's name from now on.)

 

Also: RED! So happy to see her! She really brings so much to the ensemble.

 

So, this episode was better than I feared it would be, but was still a little underwhelming for a season finale (appropriate for this season, I guess), the ball was a little too Captain Swan fan pander-y, and original recipe Snow Falls is still way better (can’t believe we didn’t get Charming’s gorgeous bow shot, nor the beautiful musical accompaniment). But the episode didn’t ruin Snow Falls, so that’s something. Better than I was expecting, actually. I totally called that Emma was bringing Marian back with them the moment she got thrown into the dungeon next to her. Heh.

 

It’s amazing that Emma and Hook didn’t blow up the entire forest. They’re the worst Marty McFlys ever—their incompetence was actually hilarious. And the way Rumpel basically shook his head and thought “You fools” at them was amazing. I also LOVED Emma’s face when she saw David get out of the carriage. I’ve never seen Emma look so happy. Jen Morrison does a really good job of showing how Emma just softens around her parents.

 

I was sooooo rooting for past Snow to bugify Regina. Also, Blue’s powers are hilariously, ridiculously arbitrary. They’re not even hiding the Contrivance Fairy anymore!

 

The rewriting of history was back out in full force this episode How did Charming “save” Snow? For that matter, how did Emma defeat the Wicked Witch? And was Emma not the one who last finale invited Hook to be part of something bigger??? Writers, watch your own damn show.

 

Although Emma watching Snow “die” is an okay rationale for wanting to stay, I guess, but I feel like we’ve had the “Emma realizing her parents/Storybrooke are home” realization five million times already. Though that was some wonderful acting by Jen Morrison in that whole scene—realizing she wanted to stay home, and then her confession to Rumpel about Neal. I’m surprised past Rumpel drank the potion. Also, Emma’s “It’s amazing you two fell for each other” cracked me up. Bring back Skin Deep-era Rumbelle. They work best.

 

Oh, also, Rumpel, you’re such a jerk. Just come clean, dude. It will be so much better for you than when the truth inevitably comes out at the worst possible time. Maurice is a pretty damn forgiving guy. And why, why, WHY do the costume people hate Belle? Her wedding outfit was okay if you’re going for a Sunday stroll, but not for a damn wedding! Both Carlyle and de Ravin sold the hell out of that scene though.

 

What the fuck ever, Regina. This is how much Regina’s grown…she can’t be happy that a mother has been reunited with her son and a man with his wife, she’s got to be pissy and totally irrationally blame Emma. At least her character hasn’t changed that much, I guess. But you just know that Marian’s going to be turned into a Big Bad so that Saint Regina gets her happy ending, so...whatever, show.

 

That was Maleficent, right??? PLEASE be Maleficent!!!! ETA: Oh, I haven't seen Frozen, so I guess I'm off there.

 

Also, I so called that we'd end up with Captain Swan together(ish) but not married and not with a True Love's Kiss. Bam! Also, Emma's crack about pantsuits was awesome, but holy smokes, Regina's leather pants were terribly unflattering. The costume department is usually much better than that.

 

Re: the picture of David on Emma's phone, it cracked me up because it's such an awkward picture! Like, no one would ever snap that picture with their phone!

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So, I have been a whiny grump about the show recently and made proclamations of dropping it but this finale was exactly the show I had been looking for!  Emma learning, doing stuff, and growing - yay! Also Charming family dynamics - yay!  Frozen? Smart move.  Jump on a title that is recent and a blockbuster that can hook a new audience - business 101. So Henry can say, "Here's my uncle Neal, not to be confused with my father Neal." Ha! Also, the body double for Ginnifer cracked me up.  Do you think they had someone else's hands for the ring scene or was it the old scene?

Edited by Grammaeryn

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 Do you think they had someone else's hands for the ring scene or was it the old scene?

I think that was part of the old, pre-pregnant footage. I've been a tad horrified at the tremendous weight gain--at first I worried about preeclampsia--but now I just remind myself that my otherwise too-thin sister also gained a lot when pregnant. She now makes me feel fat because I'm more than 10 pounds over her 90 pounds. I do wish they'd used a little more of the small faced Ginnifer footage for the time travel parts of this episode.

I did like the present scene in the diner in which she snuggles her still-small shoulders into Charming's chest while holding the baby.

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Rumbelle wedding: total afterthought for Adam and Eddy for the sole purpose of shutting the shippers up.  I don't think that A&E even cared about it.  I know I didn't.  The wedding left me completely cold.  "Splashy wedding"?  I must have missed that part.

 

I loved the rest of the episode because it gave me exactly what I wanted.  No set up to world jumping that lasts half a season, no ridiculous big bad setups for the next season; I don't think Elsa is going to be a big bad, you can't mess with her that much, the movie just came out.  What I loved was that we did get character development and character progression.  I don't think I've enjoyed a Snowing/Emma-centric so much in the history of the show.  Probably because of the fact that I don't think we've gotten one for two seasons.

I'm sure this won't endear me to anyone but I think in order for Gold to become interesting again as a character, Belle has to disappear or even die for a while.  While they were in the Enchanted Forest, I liked their dynamic.  There, they have an interesting relationship and they crack me up a lot, while still giving me a romance-y vibe, a la Beauty and the Beast.  At this point, I only enjoy them in the fairybacks.

 

Now all Belle is, is a ball and chain (haha) around Gold's neck.  Kill her off and then bring her back at the end of the show and let them get back together if that's what's needed, but her continued existence at this point keeps Gold stagnant with almost nothing to do.  Gold is boring to me as a good guy, which is all Belle wants him to be.  I'd be happy with gray hat, but she doesn't even seem to allow for gray hat.

 

I don't even care if/when she finds out about the dagger bait and switch.  If she reacts badly I'll have to laugh because she's excused every single other thing that Rumple/Gold's ever done.  Whatever.  

 

The episode was actually far better than I expected and I loved every single moment of Emma and Hook together.  

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My repost from TWOP: Boohoo, Regina, poor baby Regina, I mean how could they not think more of Regina?

Sorry Regina, one of your thousands of murders didn't happen.
Sorry Regina, a little boy got his mommy back.
Sorry Regina, a man got his wife back.
Sorry Regina, people you claim to care about are Happy.

Anyone who could do this to Regina should die. Watch Emma grovel at Regina's feet for the duration of season 4. Because seeing someone kill your mother has no effect on you feel about them. And right Regina, the only person who should have to think about consequences are people other than you. The consequences of the lives YOU ruined, nope, should never talk about those.

Other than that, I found this ep a fun romp adventure. It really was its own 2 hour movie that I enjoyed plenty more than the rest of the season. (Which didn't take much) Emma, Emma and more Emma though. So amazing, so awesome and finally giving Jennifer Morrison her due and allowing her to show off some range.

I really loved going back to that season 1 feeling of Emma having to grow more and more to accept that there's fairy tale happenings going on here. It finally went back to the stuff I liked where it wasn't just an out of control fantasy show, it was fantasy and reality collide. And the pinch of Scifi doesn't hurt. And the references to real world movies. Loved that.

 

I've figured they were going to bring in Elsa since the round table interviews at Wondercon. They were like "You'll never guess WHO will be coming in the finale." And it's like well if it's a WHO, then it'll be Elsa. I'm really scared they'll oversimplify Elsa's psyche. Like she's antagonist they WISH they'd made Regina. But since this show worships Regina, instead Elsa will be a crazy foe for Regina to defeat and come out as another reason to celebrate how awesome Regina is. Yeah, blah.

 

Oh and ABC is making sure people know it is Elsa: http://onceabc.tumblr.com/post/85499907110/get-ready

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Quote

    How did Charming “save” Snow?

He stopped Hook from killing her in bug form.

Right, I guess I didn't phrase that properly. My annoyance is that that seems to me a lame "save," especially when you compare it to how Charming saved Snow in 1x03 (seriously, when he runs with the arrow is my all-time favorite moment on the show). "You stopped Hook from swatting me" is just...kind of a lame save. Not even fully a save in my book.

 

I actually thought the Snow/Charming was a little rushed in this episode, but whatever, Josh D and Ginny G have more than enough chemistry to make up for it. I just fanwank it that it's A Curious Thing. ;)

Edited by stealinghome

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Repost from TWOP:

 

Along with everyone, I was so happy to see a flashback to Emma's childhood. I guess Mickey Mouse finally gets a cameo on the show. 

 

This episode was strange in the sense it really didn't have anything to do with the rest of the season.  I love time travel plots, so I was really wanting/expecting to love it more than I actually did.  I was surprised that I actually felt a little bored by it.  "Snow Falls" is one of my favorite episodes, and maybe it's because we had seen way too much of the Snow-on-the-run period, but it felt a little like a retread, even with the slight differences.  The recap with Henry reading the storybook and everyone recounting the story as a "review" was really clunky.  In the time travelling parts, I did like Emma's reactions and her cute comments and looks regarding her parents.  I guess I should be relieved that they didn't ruin "Snow Falls", which could have happened.  There were definitely some fun moments but not enough.  I was initially hoping for Emma to fall into the portal herself and not with Hook, but they weren't too bad together as a team.  I am glad it was 2-hour but parts of it did drag and I missed the present-day versions of the characters left in Storybrooke. 

 

My other criticism of the episode would be the way they got Emma to recognize that Storybrooke was home.  The concept is sort of clever in theory (Emma running into the diner like Dorothy waking from her dream), but coming to the realization just because she saw her mother die?  I really wasn't expecting much since they spent the entire season making no progress on this front and now there was only 2 hours left, but a full journey would have been much more rewarding.  Still, it could have been worse.  I guess that's my motto for this show.  I did find it interesting that Emma realized how Snow felt when she hugged the Original Recipe Snow who had no idea who Emma was.

 

I don't care that Regina is upset. That I can understand. I care that the first thing she does is bring up that old bullshit about Snow ruining her life. Again. After saying she's moved on. I'm sorry that every person in town doesn't ponder every action in their life going, "How is this going to effect Regina?"

 

 

Did her first response really have to be "Just like your mother...?"  I get why she would be displeased, but it seems like the obsession about Snow White is not over.   After finally admitting earlier in the episode that she was the one who ultimately caused Daniel's death.  Do the writers know they're shooting themselves in the foot here? 

 

I actually did see chemistry between Regina and Robin Hood for the first time at the beginning of the episode when he was wearing modern clothes.  First time ever.  Can't say the chemistry was there anyone by the end of the episode.  Fleeting glimpses but not really enough.  Ditto for Emma and Hook.

 

I was really thankful that Regina was nowhere to be seen in Emma's reunion episode with her parents.  I didn't mind the baby being named Neal.  It was sort of strange though kind of nice that Emma was using Neal's definition of home.

 

I really enjoyed seeing all the supporting characters, from Gepetto to Kathryn to Red to Blue to Maurice to Aurora (even though she didn't even get a line). 

The scene with Rumple and Belle's wedding was plain weird.  No one even attended... I thought it was a flashback funeral at first before I realized the person in that outfit was Belle.  The cutting of scenes was strange, between the wedding, Emma and Hook's never-ending kiss and Regina and Robin Hood walking down the street. 

 

The cliffhangers were sort of annoying.  I suspected something bad was going to come out of the Woman Emma Saved.  Marion?  Meh.  I just hope we won't have to see Regina revert yet again.  I hope she is mature about it, or this show is really going to become unwatchable. 

 

I haven't watched "Frozen" yet, but I definitely will do so now.  I would prefer if the show did the real Snow Queen story instead.  Hopefully, the show will surprise us in this respect.  Like how it looked like they were doing "Tangled" but we got the most bland Rapunzel in the history of screenwriting.

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If Henry even thinks of making Emma apologize to Regina in the next season, I quit. 

 

 

 

 

I loved the episode, especially the diner moments. They're all becoming this weird, slightly dysfunctional self-sufficient ecosystem of a family tree. 

 

Hook's costume change was wonderful, if too brief.

 

Elsa is Charming's father's long lost sister, calling it now.

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I am going to say it once and then let it go.  The one thing I didn't like about the episode was the Marion thing.   I honestly like the Robin/Regina pairing and I liked the story arc Regina this season.  THere was just something about the ending the just didn't feel right to me.  I get the parallells with Snow and Emma and how they both messed up Regina's happy ending.   I get how Regina was technically going to execute Marion so this is kinda her fault anyway but Emma was warned about messing with the past so I can see how all this will bring about the Evil Queen again,  Is that the intentent or are we just adding a road block in the Regina/Robin Hood storyline.   Because really Emma you were warned several times and I like Regina as a good guy.

 

Ok I will let it go now.  I said my peace.  

Edited by ChaosTheory
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I know nothing about Frozen and haven't read any spoilers (if there even are any regarding next season), but what if this is a tease for Narnia? There was that icy queen woman in that film...

Aside from Disney's rights to Narnia lapsing, there's also the color scheme and design of the dress.  It's Elsa's dress--pretty much identical to the design in Frozen other than the sleeves being a slightly different color.  Narnia's White Witch, of course wears white, not blue.

I just with they would use older versions of the stories; like from before they were cartoons.

The Snow Queen isn't even named Elsa in that!!! (nor is she all that nice).

 

Of course using that version, you'd have a villain (as well as a really confusing plot, because The Snow Queen's plot... sucks).

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I am now very curious what they had planned for Graham that they wanted him back so bad for the finale. Was it just going to be a cameo as a black night or might they have actually brought him back to the future instead of Maid Marion? I doubt it because it would be hard for Emma to act like she didn't know what effect his presence might have on changing the future, but I always got the feeling they wish they had not killed him off and didn't realize how big a fan base he would have. Plus it could still set up a new triangle, except it would be hook/emma/graham instead of marion/hood/regina.

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ctrl+c/ctrl+v from Television Without Pity:

I loved about 95% of it! Really. Snowing and Captain Swan was lovely, Sparkle!Dark was positively impish and the Past Regina was just how I love her.

There were some moments that didn't live up the second viewing: like - how did they get to the tower from the dungeons? (and why?). Also: what is Blue's agenda actually?... How come Regina's guards took Emma's dress but did not take the jewels?...

Why are the pages in Henry's book printed backwards?... (At least some of them)

But on the whole, I was so satisfied with this episode that nothing mattered that much and I got carried away by the time-twisting adventures. And romance - it trully was Emma's romantic adventure and coming of age story. Or coming into her own story.

Snow Falls did not suffer by this story and no character was harmed ;)

Great interactions between Rumple and Hook ("Burry the hatchet..." "...in your skull!"), Emma and Past!Hook, Charming and Snow... The thing that stuck out as a sore thumb was Marion. No charisma in this actress.

Plus, I'm kind of happy how Regina/Robin thing turned out. It was awfully fast and rather sketchy. With Marion (however bland the actress is) in the picture, the story may actually have some gravitas. Also, the ugly selfish Regina rears her head back. And I'd rather have my Evil Queen back, i missed her so much!

Now, naming the baby Neal is all king of awkward. "Yes, Henry, your uncle is younger than you and is named after your father..." And it wasn't emotional, it was... a retcon of all retcons. Did I miss the part where Neal saved everyone? Because I can't. Maybe the moment when he sent a message to Emma - but nobody knows about it.

But the flashback to young Emma had a Neal I actually liked.

As for the big villain... Well, I guess Elsa could be
a) Regina's second sister (on her father's side)
b) David's lost sister
c) Rumple's daughter from a different mother
d) Hook's mother
e) ...

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Well, to those of us who felt Regina's "redemption" seemed artificial and inauthentic, kind of like a tofu ribeye, the Marian scene showed it to be artificial and inauthentic.  If Regina was really "redeemed" as opposed to being "good" when it was in her self interest or the interest of her son to do so, then she would have been feeling overwhelming remorse for all the people she killed to the point that even one less death should result in the feeling of  overwhelming relief.  Instead, it's all "me,me, me" still with her so that the first instinct is anger and blame that Emma saved someone from being killed by Regina. 

 

And the entire, "that's not Regina, that's the Evil Queen" stuff pissed me off.  Regina is psychotic probably, but she doesn't have multiple personality disorder.  They are the same person, and it's ridiculous for the characters to act like they're not.

Edited by Crimson Belle
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Now, naming the baby Neal is all king of awkward. "Yes, Henry, your uncle is younger than you and is named after your father..." And it wasn't emotional, it was... a retcon of all retcons. Did I miss the part where Neal saved everyone? Because I can't. Maybe the moment when he sent a message to Emma - but nobody knows about it.

But the flashback to young Emma had a Neal I actually liked.

As for the big villain... Well, I guess Elsa could be

a) Regina's second sister (on her father's side)

b) David's lost sister

c) Rumple's daughter from a different mother

d) Hook's mother

e) ...

 

Actually I think they do know that Neal was why the potion made it to Emma in the first place, though I think the conclusion was reached off scene. 

 

IIRC, they revealed that Snow and Charming were the source of the second curse, that the Wicked Witch whammied. Then Hook was blamed for being involved in it somehow, but then we got the flashback reveal of Neal popping out to send the potion to Emma by way of Hook. Hook showed how he got the potion, and I suspect Emma recognized the handwriting and put the pieces together to come up with the story we flashbacked to and told the others. So he was a roundabout Hero in this arc. 

 

You could argue that his body share plan with Gold also helped break the plot wide open as well. 

 

As for Henry's new uncle being named Neal, I don't see the awkwardness. Even IRL kids can have uncles younger than themselves. Considering his adopted mom is his great grand mother, and all the rest of the convolutions in the Charming family, two Neals isn't even a knothole of that family tree. 

 

As for Elsa, I really really hope she stays out of that tree. There are other royal families in the Enchanted Forest world she could be from. Though having her be Hook's mom is an intriguing idea that I'm torn about them exploring.  

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Of course using that version, you'd have a villain (as well as a really confusing plot, because The Snow Queen's plot... sucks).

 

Actually, that is a matter of opinion. I happen to like the original H.C. Andersen story.

It is true, however, that FROZEN bears absolutely NO resemblance to the original story -- even less than TANGLED does to Rapunzel.  Like, there is nothing similar between "The Snow Queen" and FROZEN except for a young woman who can control snow and ice.

FROZEN is a fun movie, but it is a little disconcerting that now OUAT is adding in characters that actually are not part of any original fairytale or folktale or even just a classic children's story like Peter Pan. FROZEN is totally a Disney concoction, and so is Elsa. I guess it doesn't matter to most people, but this is certainly taking OUAT away from its roots in classic tales for me.

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I suppose they could use Frozen as a way to show how the Enchanted Forest and other story based realms interface with our world. I would love to know. Do our real world dreamers create the Realms or are the Realms the muse for real world writers and storytellers. Are Eddy and Adam interested in going that meta? I don't know. 

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