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S03.E08: Chloe Does Lucifer

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I just watched the pilot again and omg, Luci has changed so much.... And not in the good way. Back in the pilot he was more serious and mature than he is now. You really could believe he was the Devil in human flesh, someone who had seen things. You could tell there was darkness below the surface, a brooding soul. Now he's a parody of himself.

The thing is, I think Tom Ellis is awesome and the writers are talented (the beach scene is the proof), so maybe, maybe, they know what they're doing. Maybe Lucifer is losing it and he knows it and that's why he's being over-the-top. In the end, he's fighting against his feelings for Chloe, not only because he doesn't want to become a shoe, but also because that would imply accepting something from God and we all know how he feels about Dad. Isn't pride Lucifer's main sin, according to Christianity? I want to believe that's the explanation. But I also remember Sleepy Hollow and then I'm scared. 

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3 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Didn't she say she'd stolen some of the stuff she gave to the police; wouldn't that make the stuff tainted and inadmissable?

She stole the contract which proved the main motive for the murder, but they don't need it to be admissible. If they were using it to try to get a warrant, it'd have mattered, but Chloe got into the murderer's house because he invited her in. She found the murder weapon there. So if the contract comes up during trial, it'd be because it got subpoenaed based on what else they already know. "Why is this bloody barbell in your fireplace?" is admissable, I think. I don't think they could call it fruit of the tainted tree because they may well have plausible deniability about how they came to the conclusion dead-girl must have been the programmer instead of a hacker. They could claim it was a working theory without ever having seen the contract.

33 minutes ago, Fanta00 said:

Is it just me or whats going on, previous episode was placed two weeks after Ch and L met, then year passed and Linda's husband was killed. If this episode has Charlotte as a normal person, isnt't it recent stuff? So why linda is preparing funeral for her husband!

I think the timeline was something like:

  • Ex-husband wakes up and finds Linda with Lucifer 3 weeks after the time of the first episode.
  • Buncha stuff happens over several weeks/months.
  • A yearish passes while serial killer case is cold, and ex-husband is obsessing over Lucifer.
  • Investigation resumes, more stuff happens, over subsequent weeks.
  • Ends with poisoning death in last week or two.

So, yes, there was a time skip of approximately a year within the previous episode, but the events in that episode add up to something closer to two years, leaving us with Linda feeling guilty and planning a memorial now. Especially if the ex-husband episode was one of the originally-intended-for-last-year episodes, it makes sense they'd need to fudge the math of how long the events took on either side of the "year" within that episode in order for us to land with Linda dealing with it "today".

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6 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Didn't she say she'd stolen some of the stuff she gave to the police; wouldn't that make the stuff tainted and inadmissable?

I'm pulling a bit from Law and Order:SVU but not necessarily.  As long as Charlotte wasn't acting as a police agent (the police asked her to do it or she was otherwise working for/with the police as an informant or some other capacity), the evidence should be admissible, though technically Charlotte could be charged with theft because taking something without permission is still a crime.

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On 11/20/2017 at 9:28 PM, CaptainTightpants said:

Not the strongest episode for sure. But I love how the show continually ignores the fact that Kevin Alejandro is a very handsome man. It really does look like the whole cast enjoys these ridiculous little scenes where we all pretend that Dan is a plain looking guy!

To be fair, when Tom Ellis and D.B. Woodside are the people you're standing next to on a weekly basis, it'd be pretty easy to be seen as the ugly duckling.

 

13 hours ago, Ria said:

It’s not so much that others on the show are attractive, of course they are. But when the series started, Lucifer was magnetic. People were drawn to him, all eyes were on him, people noticed when he entered a room. Chloe alone was immune to his charms. This  was not at all the case here. In fact it was reversed, with Lucifer being passed over and ignored.  Is this intentional on the writers’s part? Is Lucifer losing that charisma? Or is it a case of writing characters to fit this week’s story with no thought,  just lazy writing? I don’t like this Lucifer. 

This. Earlier in the season they had Lucifer decide he needed to start holding court and brokering favors again, and there was a glimmer of his old self. He should be someone who can have hordes of glitterati lining up to bask in his presence the instant he makes the decision that he's interested in such. The only way the elite dating app guy should have been dismissive of him in favor of Chloe is if his business model were basically a Ladies Night setup that solely makes money from rich guys who want to order pretty women off the menu. If women or gay/bi men make up a significant part of the revenue stream, the rich, smoking hot owner of a trendy LA nightclub would be a gold mine as a poster boy for the app before you even get in to issues of supernatural magnetism.

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On ‎21‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 11:36 PM, tennisgurl said:

I actually laughed out loud when the guy said how interesting Chloe is just looking at her. Chloe is the most boring mom/detective/former scream queen in the history of LA. I like Chloe alright, but I am just so over everyone going on and on about how great she is, instead of showing us! She is being built up as the most awesome exciting woman ever, but she`s the least interesting person in the series. 

I think it worked when Lucifer found Chloe intriguing because she was immune to his charms. He didn't react to her looks or anything any more than he reacted to any other woman but he became intrigued when he realized she was immune to his charms and that was intriguing to the viewer, too. Since Lauren German isn't exactly a woman who I think would stand out in a crowd, I think that was a pretty good way of making someone who seems fairly plain an interesting character. Lucifer stopped being intrigued when he found out that Dad had something to do with her existence and when he stopped being intrigued, there really wasn't anything left about Chloe that was interesting. I'm under the impression that the show is overcompensating for that by telling us that she is interesting because they've taken a huge part of the mystery about her away.

That said, it seems like some sort of consistency is missing this season. Lucifer was upset with Dad because he believed he had put Chloe in his path, he was upset with the return of his wings believing Dad was still playing games. Where are those emotions? They were there for a couple of episodes at the beginning and then they disappeared and it seems that we now have one stand-alone procedural episode after another.

But Chloe is still there because of Dad. Why isn't Lucifer trying to find out why. Why did he stop keeping his distance from her without any obvious reason? Why isn't he exploring that he still wants to work with her? He was doing all those things in S1 and I think that is one of the things that is different now. Some of the depth seems to be missing. And because it is missing, Chloe has become replaceable. It's not like Lucifer couldn't do any of the things he'd done with Chloe in the last few episodes with someone else. I consider episode 6 as proof. Whether he solves crimes with Ella or Chloe didn't really make a difference.

The show is beginning to look like fan fiction. Someone had a really good and solid beginning but didn't think about where they wanted to take the story and reached a point when they didn't know how to go on anymore.

 

On ‎21‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 10:54 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

Whatever happened about his wings growing back?

Left-over episodes from S2 happened. At least, I think that it is what happened. Yes, we have new episodes which haven't mentioned the wings but because we also get old episodes, the S3 arc is missing for longer than if we only had a few non-arc-related episodes from this season in between.

Also, I guess, they're just there? But yeah, it would be nice to have that addressed every now and then.

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12 hours ago, Fanta00 said:

Is it just me or whats going on, previous episode was placed two weeks after Ch and L met, then year passed and Linda's husband was killed. If this episode has Charlotte as a normal person, isnt't it recent stuff? So why linda is preparing funeral for her husband!

No, the previous episode up until the middle showed Linda's ex-husband past (how he met Lucifer), and then went straight to the present. Linda's husband died recently.

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7 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

He should be someone who can have hordes of glitterati lining up to bask in his presence the instant he makes the decision that he's interested in such. The only way the elite dating app guy should have been dismissive of him in favor of Chloe is if his business model were basically a Ladies Night setup that solely makes money from rich guys who want to order pretty women off the menu. If women or gay/bi men make up a significant part of the revenue stream, the rich, smoking hot owner of a trendy LA nightclub would be a gold mine as a poster boy for the app before you even get in to issues of supernatural magnetism.

Unless the plot is intending to go to a place where not only do wings=no more devil face, but also the "charms" are lessening, it seems the writers in this episode sacrificed character for the sake of a joke they really liked: "surprise, roommate wants a selfie with Dan, not Luci", "surprise, murderer wants Chloe for his dating app, not Luci". They had to ignore his built-in magnetism to go for a fake-out for those two punchlines. So either, they're telling us something about him has changed (benefit of the doubt version) OR they decided it was funny enough to do this bit, twice, that it was worth glossing over that it shouldn't really be possible given the established supernatural nature of Lucifer.

I also think they were trying way too hard with the title. She barely even tried to "be Lucifer" for 30 seconds before she bailed and was her own awkward as hell (pun intended) self. 

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29 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I also think they were trying way too hard with the title.

I'm pretty sure they came up with the title and made an episode to go with it because they thought it was so clever. It wasn't. 

This ep made me wonder if there are two teams of writers, one team of jr high guys who are desperate to see a girls boobs who write for Lucy and Chloe's scenes and another group of writers who write amazing things like Amendi and Linda's scene's. I just have such a hard time believing that the same people who wrote the beautiful scene between Amenda (and damn if I'm not kind of shipping them more than a little after that laying in the sand scene) wrote the crap about Chloe being so freaking awesome that she outshines Lucifer. 

It might be interesting if they were going for a storyline where Dad is taking away all Lucy's gifts, the wings, the face, now the charm. But even without his supernatural charm he's still freaking gorgeous, an super rich. So yeah, since I thought this dating app was some kind of invite only, cream of the crop kind of thing (or did I imagine that?) I can't imagine anyone would pass up Lucy as a client and zero in on a bland female cop. I was seeing this as more of a millionaire matchmaker kind of app while Chloe is a bit more match.com. 

More and more I want a Maze/Amendi/Linda spin off, or just drop the cop stuff and focus on the angel stuff. The angel stuff is so much more interesting. 

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I'm 37th-ing the best scenes as Dr. Linda and Amy.  And kudos to the poster who noted that having Linda in on the 'celestial secret' makes her the most interesting human character.

My thinking on the Charlotte/Ella pairing-- as a true believer, Ella is a good choice to help Charlotte take steps toward avoiding Hell a second time around.  Plus, it gets us more scenes with women talking to each other about things other than men, so yay.  But maybe there's something to putting these two together in the ultimate reveal to Chloe-- a way to absent Luci from Chloe's initial realization and thus avoiding what could easily be so much fear, shock, etc., that would cripple their relationship permanently.

Y'all must hang out with some really pretty people to think LG wouldn't stand out in a crowd.  It's a total opinion thing, but I think she's naturally very lovely, particularly when they either put her hair up or style it.  

Agree with everyone who is puzzled about the yo-yo they have Luci on-- he's essential to crime solving b/c of his celestial knowledge, then... not.  He's away from Chloe b/c she's from God, then... back.  He's going back to his old, favor-granting ways, then...nope. He's got wings and no devil face, then... nada.  If he, for one second, thinks a single game of monopoly makes HIM boring?  Then he's forgotten he's actually Satan.  I've been willing to give this show a lot of trust, and to some extent, I still do because it's possible this is all ganked up because LAB was out on maternity leave.  But I'm getting a bit nervous that the shifting Luci personality and the delay on any unifying season arc mean bad things.  

Yay Trixie!!

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On 11/22/2017 at 3:51 PM, Fanta00 said:

Is it just me or whats going on, previous episode was placed two weeks after Ch and L met, then year passed and Linda's husband was killed. If this episode has Charlotte as a normal person, isnt't it recent stuff? So why linda is preparing funeral for her husband!

Just read "A Year Later" as "A Year or So Later."  Maybe a few weeks/months pass during the investigation in Season 1 (serial cases tend to take a while) before Reese sees Lucifer's devil face and goes off the deep end.  Then, a year or so later Chloe and Lucifer check back in with Reese who seeks out the serial killer to try to kill Lucifer and ends up getting killed himself in what we can call "the present day of the show."  In this episode we pick after forensics is finished with Reese's corpse and releases it to Linda who is stuck planning the funeral.

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On 11/24/2017 at 3:34 PM, Zipper said:

Agree with everyone who is puzzled about the yo-yo they have Luci on-- he's essential to crime solving b/c of his celestial knowledge, then... not.  He's away from Chloe b/c she's from God, then... back.  He's going back to his old, favor-granting ways, then...nope. He's got wings and no devil face, then... nada.  If he, for one second, thinks a single game of monopoly makes HIM boring?  Then he's forgotten he's actually Satan.

I kind of think the writers have forgotten he's Satan.

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On 11/24/2017 at 3:34 PM, Zipper said:

Y'all must hang out with some really pretty people to think LG wouldn't stand out in a crowd.  It's a total opinion thing, but I think she's naturally very lovely, particularly when they either put her hair up or style it.  

They play down her attractiveness with unflattering clothes, hairstyles and makeup, but she is very attractive!

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2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They play down her attractiveness with unflattering clothes, hairstyles and makeup, but she is very attractive!

I don't think that she stands out any more in the episodes that they dress her up in and I think that is because Lauren German is a woman whose physique doesn't necessarily stand out. She's more of a next-door-neighbor kind of woman, in my opinion. I think if all of the cast walked into a room, dressed the same (leisurely or dressed up)  Chloe/German would be the one to fade into the background first.

I think she was a really good fit on Chicago Fire, but I think for the purpose that they need Chloe for, German might not have been the best choice. And the writers are not making helping either.

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IMO she's pretty but average. She blends. She actually has the perfect look for a tough female cop and would be perfect in the role if the show wasn't trying to push her so hard. Maybe they realize she's not that outstanding and are hoping if they say it enough we will start to believe she is. But she's not. She's a typical pretty from some angles woman. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure she's not hard up for dates (if she's single, don't know). But she is in now way, physically or personality-wise) this undeniably uber attractive super woman they are trying to make her out to be.

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Decided to do thanksgiving prep last week and save the this episode for last night since it was a rerun.

 

I really liked the Amen/Linda scenes. Though thinking about a bigger picture "Linda knowing where she's going..." if hell is rooms you can get out of, if she went if Luci's in charge if anyone should be dragged out their hell room its Linda and I can't see Luci or Maze not breaking the rules to make it not so bad. But whatever, it was a good follow up to the husband story and touched on the aspects of the show I signed up for. Again, though, Maze's absence was felt to me in Linda's story.

 

I have trouble with Charlotte asking how to "be good"  already as a result of what happened, she may not have been a great person and I get that hell amplified guilt. But before Mom hijacked her life we know nothing that means she deserved her kids taken away. The husband was a pushover, and yeah she was cheating,  so Mom must have really screwed up (and we saw her make one kid bark and heard she sent them to school without pants.) Charlotte was wronged but Lucifer not thinking about the others involved with Mom's punishment (something I called from the start and I get that aspect of Lucifer he only thought of the punishment not the collateral damage, but apparently Amen didn't care either) isn't on her. So the idea of someone who had their life hijacked looking "to be good" as a result doesn't sit right with me. It's good to want to change but there needs to be an aspect of Luci and Amen helping her just fix what they let happen too, she's owed it.

 

I did like the line "Name your price, Urchin" during the Monopoly but other than that that plot was a drag.

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Although if not for supernatural intervention, Charlotte would just be dead, and apparently in hell. So their meddling has actually already given her a second chance.  And she appears to want to take advantage of that.

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I found the Charlotte and Ella plot to be way too over-the-top, try too hard "humor." It wasn't funny to me at all. Plus, isn't Ella supposed to be hardcore Christian? If so, she wouldn't turn down helping someone or schooling them on God and Christianly behavior. Is she afraid of Charlotte? Does she think the darkness is because Charlotte is pure evil? If so, okay, but show that rather than having her "comically" avoid Charlotte throughout the whole episode. It just felt really lame, and it annoyed me because it seems like they're just pushing to find any reason to keep Tricia around. 

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I liked the idea of Chloe and Lucifer scenes for the most part... except when Chloe was in the club and didn't know how to talk to men as Lucifer ("Lucinda"). Her awkward laugh was so ridiculous. I get that they were going for comedy and she wasn't being herself and the point was that she (and Lucifer) need to be their true selves, but surely she knows how to behave "undercover"?

Plus, hasn't she hung around him long enough to be able to mock him and the way he behaves? I actually wanted to see her imitate Lucifer more, in that scene where they were practicing and Lucifer was pretending to be a woman that Chloe should hit on. I wanted to see them both get into the comedy of pretending to be other people, or over-the-top versions of each other. I wanted to see Lucifer pretend to be "boring" deadpan Chloe, and have Chloe pretend to be audacious Lucifer. In my view, they didn't play that scene up enough. I couldn't believe they cut to Ella when it seemed they were just getting started with something that could have been really funny between Lucifer and Chloe. "Hold on... is that supposed to be me? Is that really how you see me?"

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Like everyone else, I loved the Linda and Amenadiel beach scene. So lovely.

And the "I've flipped so many men, they call me The Skillet" and Oscar Wilde jokes made me laugh out loud. Especially the skillet line. Heee.

Quote

Aside from a brief moment in the pilot(?) when we glimpsed a man in his bed (along with a woman) he's been a performative ogler of women but there's been very little suggestion of anything else.

I think they've had Lucifer make comments throughout the series, about how he's also into men, including that episode where a bunch of his former lovers had to be interrogated (and there was at least one man in the group). So this wasn't the first time since the pilot that he's made reference to being sexually flexible.

However, I do think they could show him ogling men more often, to reinforce the fact that he's open to any and all experiences if he finds the person intriguing enough. I think the reason they aren't doing any of that more often is because they're trying to keep some sort of narrative going that Lucifer is changing and is no longer as interested in being so promiscuous with anyone because deep down he loves Chloe. (And it seems that he's currently getting back into his old behaviors because he's afraid.) 

I don't care one way or another about that - I've enjoyed them as friends - but I am curious to see where they're going to take Lucifer next and so far am okay with just waiting and seeing. He seems to be pushing and pulling against everything this season, because he doesn't want God controlling him, and I like the inner tug of war he seems to be feeling.

I also like how someone noted he does seem to be changing because he actually asked Linda how she was doing, seemed to genuinely care about the answer, and listened without interrupting or changing the subject back to himself. It was an interesting scene that I really liked, and I want to see more of this.

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3 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

I found the Charlotte and Ella plot to be way too over-the-top, try too hard "humor." It wasn't funny to me at all. Plus, isn't Ella supposed to be hardcore Christian? If so, she wouldn't turn down helping someone or schooling them on God and Christianly behavior. Is she afraid of Charlotte? Does she think the darkness is because Charlotte is pure evil? If so, okay, but show that rather than having her "comically" avoid Charlotte throughout the whole episode. It just felt really lame, and it annoyed me because it seems like they're just pushing to find any reason to keep Tricia around. 

Christians are people too and all people "have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."  In the first meeting in this episode Charlotte held a bagged murder weapon and noted that of course she wouldn't kill Ella here in the middle of a police station, which kind of indicates that she's given the matter at least cursory thought.  Plus, look at the two of them and the way the show presents them.  Charlotte is drop-dead model gorgeous, tall and commanding.  Ella is short and really cute in her nerdy forensics shirts with the little sayings on them (though she can definitely up her game as witness Vegas).  People a lot like Charlotte probably made Ella's life kind of hellish in high school.  Plus, Charlotte has done things to hurt people Ella cares about (getting Chloe's dad's murderer off, attacking Lucifer and Chloe on the witness stand, the whole way she seems to be treating Dan), so Ella really doesn't like or trust her.  As for the "teach me the ways of goodness" bit, figure Ella is partly reluctant because it'll be a difficult, likely thankless job and partly reluctant because it could easily be some kind of vicious tactic that'll end with Ella getting drenched by a bucket of pig's blood.

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7 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

I found the Charlotte and Ella plot to be way too over-the-top, try too hard "humor." It wasn't funny to me at all.

I didn't think it was funny either. When Ella spotted Charlotte after Charlotte had asked for Ella's help, I thought Ella was having a nightmare. It so didn't fit or make sense but then, not much of the episode did.

I like Charlotte though, or rather, I liked her relationship with Lucifer in the episode she first returned in and would have liked to see them build on that instead.

Where did Lucifer's sudden insecurity about being interesting come from? And were they trying to imply that Lucifer can be himself with Chloe and that the Lucifer we've met in Season 1 and come to love isn't the real Lucifer? Why wouldn't he be the real Lucifer? He left Hell to be himself and he enjoyed the nightclub and sex and the parties. Doing what he wants to do was the whole point of leaving Hell.

I have no idea who wrote the episode but I wasn't under the impression that it was someone who had just joined the writing team and had never watched an episode before. And then someone who's been with the show from the beginning threw in the scenes with Dr Linda.

At least, Lucifer didn't turn down the lady at the very end to head to Chloe's for a round of Monopoly!

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13 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

And were they trying to imply that Lucifer can be himself with Chloe and that the Lucifer we've met in Season 1 and come to love isn't the real Lucifer?

If Season 1 Lucifer isn't the real one and this is the Lucifer we're getting from now on, I'm out. I sighed up for fun, hedonistic Lucifer, not step daddy settle down marriage material Lucifer. 

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I always think the episodes without Maze, Dr. Linda and Amediel are lacking. And I like it when Detective Douche is in it too.  so at least we got Dr. Linda and Amediel.  That was absolutely the best .  I don't understand this season at all really.  Spotty writing, weird character turn arounds, no cohesion to the season.  Every episode seems to be a stand -alone.  I had to rewatch the previouslies because I could not understand why Ella seemed so scared of Charlotte.  And just seeing darkness?  Why should that inspire terror.  She must see it a lot.

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15 hours ago, White Sheep said:

I really like the ending to this one.  I wonder if Linda will ask Lucy to let her ex-husband out of hell at the end of the show?   

I think the overall statement on that is that people get themselves into and out of Hell.  Lucifer doesn't really keep them there but he won't "force" them to leave until they're ready.

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