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GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

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Totally valid.  I just think it would have played better if he had thought she was knocked out and then she surprised him, or something like that.

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I'm pretty sure I saw sweet little Liesl getting her kicks out of torturing Robin, especially that one time she had on the Anna mask and Robin was fucking devastated.

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Oh sure, I just meant in this particular instance, the way Kathleen Gati played it, Dr. O wasn't doing cartwheels about getting to kill Robin.

That was a good piece of villainy, though, her fucking with Robin with the mask.

Edited by TeeVee329
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5 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

But the headline in these scenes, as always, is Duke and Anna being reunited.  Duke reacting to finally seeing her, kissing her hand, calling her his hero gets me every time.  That we're supposed to believe this man betrays her in a year's time for the likes of Sonny is just ridiculous.

That was my constant issue with Cartini, they'd create the set-up for great (or at least decent) soap and they'd flush it down the toilet for the likes of that mess with Duke, or Fluke, or Franco, or killing off AJ instead of using him as a springboard to revitalize the Qs. The idea that Duke of all characters in the history of GH's obsession with mobsters would choose Sonny over Anna is just...No.

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1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

Oh sure, I just meant in this particular instance, the way Kathleen Gati played it, Dr. O wasn't doing cartwheels about getting to kill Robin.

That was a good piece of villainy, though, her fucking with Robin with the mask.

Because sweet little Liesl is a villain. The problem with GH has always been turning characters they originally wrote as villains for a short stint and turning them into our sympathetic heroes. 

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I'd forgotten that Anna was involved with a mobster.  I guess she can't run for mayor either.

I don't mind villains getting redeemed. In fact,  I like it.  It gives me hope for the world. I think I could even have taken Helena being redeemed at the end and going to her Maker with a clearer soul.

What I hate is being told that people who are bad or even just shady are really good.  Valentin is lying to Anna so for all his love of Nina and Charlotte, he's not a good guy. Neither is Sonny or Jason or Luke or Carly. They continue to do bad things, like steal children from their parents and torture burn victims and yet I'm supposed to root for them and cheer when they hurt others.

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Can someone pls answer this question bc I'm honestly asking. When was sweet little Liesl redeemed? What was her redemption story? When did she apologize or make up for her sins? 

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She suffered, which according to my bible is one way of being redeemed.  She's supported Maxie and she hasn't done anything to hurt anyone since the Brad/Finn thing.  I think at one point she did apologize for what she did.

In contrast, Jason is screwing over Drew in terms of not giving him information about Henrik even though Drew desperately wants to know the information he lost just because he happened to look like Jason and coveting Drew's wife.  Sonny is yelling at Mike who is clearly having mental troubles and still keeping Ava from being able to see her daughter.

I doubt Obrecht is ever going to be a white hat but on the scales at this moment, she's looking a whole lot better than the show's "heroes".

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

In contrast, Jason is screwing over Drew in terms of not giving him information about Henrik even though Drew desperately wants to know the information he lost just because he happened to look like Jason

Has Drew suddenly become impaired and unable to look for information about his own life? Or is he doing what he's always done, which is wait around for someone else to tell him who he is?

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20th (!!) anniversary of Liz's rape/rape revisted soon, so I've been watching some stuff.

I'll start with this clip:

https://youtu.be/0rIOXBiH7gs?list=PLeA-Hlp5RaSLBLG-0KAZ6MWFONkR9c4L-&t=450

Lucky: what the hell are you doing here?

Luke: She [Liz] knows?

Lucky: That's right, cause I don't lie to people I care about and I don't protect men who rape.

Luke: for God's sake Lucky I'm the same person I was yesterday, the same person you've known all your life.

Lucky: do you really believe that? 

Luke: Yes!

Lucky: the man I knew would have never done this. The man I knew protected my mother. He didn't degrade her.

Luke: I raised you. And I have always honored my wife. We created order out of chaos, and we've been faithful to each other for 16 years, and you will not diminish that!

No, that would be Tony Geary. Anyway.

Luke: You ask her. She'll tell you that. She'll tell you it's been a good life.

Lucky: Well that makes her just as twisted as you are. And you know what? I hate you both.

Luke: Alright, you hate me. You think you have that right, okay. I can take that. But you remember why you hate me: cause you love your mother. And don't you ever take this out on her because she paid enough for that night. You have no idea what happened to her.

Lucky: I know exactly what happens to a woman when a man forces himself on her.

Luke: (at the same time I say, "whoa, Lucky , slow your roll") You know nothing! You know what happened to Liz! It's not the same.

Lucky: Yours is even sicker.

Luke: And you're qualified to make that judgement?

Lucky: Yeah, I am.

Luke: Who told you?

Lucky: what do you care you told me? Looking for someone to blame for the mess you've made?

Luke: No. But if this is how it's gonna end up between you and me, I deserve to know who started the ball rolling.

Lucky: Come on, you're the expert on angles. Figure it out. Who knows everything about my life before I do? 

Luke: son of a -

Lucky: That's right. A little Cassadine, my brother Nikolas, told me. And Stefan told him. Now I wonder who told Stefan. Mom? Kind of makes you wonder, don't it? Was she kidnapped by the Cassadines, or was she rescued?
 

Edited by ulkis
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3 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Because sweet little Liesl is a villain. The problem with GH has always been turning characters they originally wrote as villains for a short stint and turning them into our sympathetic heroes. 

Isn’t that how Anna started out, as a villain from Robert’s past?

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46 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Has Drew suddenly become impaired and unable to look for information about his own life? Or is he doing what he's always done, which is wait around for someone else to tell him who he is?

Seriously. He could ask the Navy Seals about his background info before he signed up. Then he could research his past, visit where he grew up and went to school and find people who knew him.

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53 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Luke: I raised you. And I have always honored my wife. We created order out of chaos, and we've been faithful to each other for 16 years, and you will not diminish that!

 

But but but I thought Luke had Holly and various hookers on the side and Laura was totes cool with it, right Guza/Geary?

Edited by TeeVee329
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3 hours ago, ulkis said:

Luke: I raised you. And I have always honored my wife. We created order out of chaos, and we've been faithful to each other for 16 years, and you will not diminish that!

Ooof. Still hurts.

 

If RC had fixed that one thing, instead of teasing it and making a fool of Robert, I would hate him about 50% less

Edited by Oracle42
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38 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Ooof. Still hurts.

 

If RC had fixed that one thing, instead of teasing it and making a fool of Robert, I would hate him about 50% less

I have a feeling TG made him change it. Or more like TG complained to FV and FV made him change it.

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12 hours ago, katie9918 said:

Isn’t that how Anna started out, as a villain from Robert’s past?

No. She was a woman from Robert's past. We knew she was someone he loved. She was a villain when she showed up. Sort of. Meaning she wanted the treasure, was working as a fence, and using Slater. THEN it was revealed that after Robert fell in love and married her, that she was a double agent, and because he loved her, he betrayed his country by not exposing her.

Ahhh. Good Times! Good Times! When characters had layers, gravitas, and I fucking gave a fuck.

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Can someone give a general timeline on Spinelli and Maxie's relationship up till about the middle of 2010? Thanks in advance.

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On 2/9/2018 at 12:50 AM, ulkis said:

I have a feeling TG made him change it. Or more like TG complained to FV and FV made him change it.

Maybe FV wouldn't let RC change Ethan's paternity, but he probably didn't force him to keep the scenes with Holly/Robert/Luke - where Luke and Holly lied to Robert.

How was TG still salty about being the third wheel in that triangle? I see why he liked the idea of Luke/Holly, but Robert/Holly was just better.

Edited by Oracle42

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On February 9, 2018 at 6:50 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. She was a woman from Robert's past. We knew she was someone he loved. She was a villain when she showed up. Sort of. Meaning she wanted the treasure, was working as a fence, and using Slater. THEN it was revealed that after Robert fell in love and married her, that she was a double agent, and because he loved her, he betrayed his country by not exposing her.

Ahhh. Good Times! Good Times! When characters had layers, gravitas, and I fucking gave a fuck.

Layers, stories, scenes. As opposed to sweet little Liesl who merely was "accepted" by other characters for no fucking reason. 

 

On February 8, 2018 at 4:27 PM, statsgirl said:

She suffered, which according to my bible is one way of being redeemed.  She's supported Maxie and she hasn't done anything to hurt anyone since the Brad/Finn thing.  I think at one point she did apologize for what she did.

In contrast, Jason is screwing over Drew in terms of not giving him information about Henrik even though Drew desperately wants to know the information he lost just because he happened to look like Jason and coveting Drew's wife.  Sonny is yelling at Mike who is clearly having mental troubles and still keeping Ava from being able to see her daughter.

I doubt Obrecht is ever going to be a white hat but on the scales at this moment, she's looking a whole lot better than the show's "heroes".

Sonny is "yelling" at people and Jason is keeping information from Drew and that makes them bad, lol? I can think of a whole lotta reasons other than that.

Also, if we're redeeming characters because they're suffering, both Sonny and Jason have suffered. I guess they've been redeemed. 

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On 2/9/2018 at 12:50 AM, ulkis said:

I have a feeling TG made him change it. Or more like TG complained to FV and FV made him change it.

TG made who change what? Ethan being Luke's instead of Robert's happened under Guzasshole.

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

TG made who change what? Ethan being Luke's instead of Robert's happened under Guzasshole.

Yeah, but then when Ron started Helena had kidnapped Ethan and Luke convinced her not to hurt him because he was really Robert's son. It seemed like they were gonna switch but then Luke revealed that Ethan was still his son.

Ron had a bunch of Luke and Laura and 80s references his first few weeks. I think he wanted to change Ethan's paternity.

10 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Maybe FV wouldn't let RC change Ethan's paternity, but he probably didn't force him to keep the scenes with Holly/Robert/Luke - where Luke and Holly lied to Robert.

How was TG still salty about being the third wheel in that triangle? I see why he liked the idea of Luke/Holly, but Robert/Holly was just better.

I doubt TG cared about that, just that he objected to anything that "softened" the retcon of Luke cheating on Laura.

But maybe it was all one big mess by Ron, I don't know. 

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3 hours ago, ulkis said:

Yeah, but then when Ron started Helena had kidnapped Ethan and Luke convinced her not to hurt him because he was really Robert's son. It seemed like they were gonna switch but then Luke revealed that Ethan was still his son.

Ron had a bunch of Luke and Laura and 80s references his first few weeks. I think he wanted to change Ethan's paternity.

I didn't think that was because Ron wanted to change Ethan's paternity, but I'd have disliked Ethan no matter whose son he ended up being.

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1 hour ago, ulkis said:

GH thirty fifth anniversary special.

 

I'm surprised that they shelled out the money for a lot of the music.

Tony Geary looked really good then. Yeah that's right I said it.

Geary does look good there, and I am shocked to type that.

Love those scenes from the sixties.  I think I first started watching in the 70s, so I hadn't seen those early scenes of Jesse and Steve.  And Audrey!  Love that they had an organist playing for those dramatic scenes.  

I do remember GH being a half hour; when did it switch to an hour?

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On the topic of bad guys getting redeemed on this show ... it CAN be done, but only to a certain point and not the way the writers try to do it these days.   

I could never buy Dr. O being redeemed, because of the sadistic things she did to many innocent people.   And she really seemed to enjoy being cruel, and let's be honest, that was what Ron C. created her for, since he seemed to think that kind of crap was campy good fun.  

Same with Franco - the things he did went way too far, and he enjoyed them way too much.  

Sonny, Jason, Carly - the problem with them is not so much sadism as being totally selfish and never learning a gosh darn thing.  

 

I love Anna, but yes, she was a villain when she first came on.  So was Holly.  So was Sean Donnelly.  They did bad things, but they all straightened up within about a year of being on the show, acted out of selfishness / greed rather than deliberate cruelty, weren't complete sadists, and proved themselves to be worthy by showing they could become loyal friends and be self-sacrificing.   

And that is key for me -- a bad character suffering personal setbacks and crying crocodile tears doesn't work for me.  I could care less about Dr. O suffering now, or Franco or Sonny boo-hoo-ing that people judge them.    It's when a character actually show empathy for another person and learns to put their own needs aside for someone else sometimes that really means redemption.  Holly did it for Luke in her redemption arc, Anna and Sean did for Robert in their redemption arc (and Anna also helped young Frisco / Felicia when she turned good in her story).    

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1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Tony Geary looked really good then. Yeah that's right I said it.

He did. And watching this; remembering the homage he gave the show, along with how Luke and Laura exploded and saved the soap, makes me oh so bitter and RAGEY. Jackass wouldn't be where he was, who he was, if NOT for the Luke and Laura Super Couple popularity and adventures. And I don't care what he says, or what deal he worked or forced on Guzasshole and/or Frons I KNOW what I saw on my screen, and NO FUCKING WAY did Luke ever cheat on Laura or feel choked by domesticity. or whatever the fuck Geary said.

18 minutes ago, bannana said:

 

Love those scenes from the sixties.  I think I first started watching in the 70s, so I hadn't seen those early scenes of Jesse and Steve.  And Audrey!  Love that they had an organist playing for those dramatic scenes.  

I do remember GH being a half hour; when did it switch to an hour?

It went to an hour in 1975. Quartermaines showed up two, three years later.

1 minute ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I love Anna, but yes, she was a villain when she first came on.  So was Holly.

Well, Holly was a con; and cons aren't really villains; when they scam. Did anyone die as a result? I don't think they did. But yeah, both Sean and Anna were bad guys; and it was so hilarious that Sean got so pissed when he learned that Anna was the double agent, when during that conversation, he was currently a thief after the treasure! But back then, we had writers who could write decent redemption stories.

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Well, Holly was a con; and cons aren't really villains; when they scam. Did anyone die as a result? I don't think they did. But yeah, both Sean and Anna were bad guys; and it was so hilarious that Sean got so pissed when he learned that Anna was the double agent, when during that conversation, he was currently a thief after the treasure! But back then, we had writers who could write decent redemption stories.

Well, cons are stealing from other people, so I think of Holly as being involved in villainy in '82.  Also, others involved in the Oil Scam did murder innocent people to cover their tracks.  Being part of the whole conspiracy, Holly technically could have been on the hook for accessory to murder, or something similar.  

BUT.  We the audience knew she felt horrible when she realized her cousin was killing people, and she felt bad when working class folks instead of just rich families got dragged into the scam ... all of which was a factor in her wanting to turn to the side of good.  

(Although, I have to say, back when I watched the Oil Scam aftermath episodes, I was annoyed when Holly took an attitude with Edward.  Just because he was rich - and a jerk in his own right - didn't mean he didn't have a right to be angry with her about the specific fact that she'd conned him.)

Edited by SlovakPrincess
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Yeah; Holly had a great redemption for her character; Then GuzARSEHOLE had to regress her and make her a horrible person, reverting her back to her con days during the 2006 monkey virus. And that she "LOVED" whatever man she had been married to at the time, more than she cared about ROBIN, who needed the antidote? And she STILL blackmailed the cops for the money in order for her to give it? ROBERT'S child. Her stepdaughter, who she LOVED.

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The 20th anniversary of Liz's rape and the aftermath was last week.

These scenes are so good. I especially like the hints between Bobbie and Luke that they are reminded of Laura's rape, and Bobbie's declaration to Luke after Lucky takes Liz home that she can barely look at him. And they are especially more poignant in light of the #MeToo Movement these last few months. 

Also: Is this one of the last times we ever saw Foster? 

 

Edited by UYI
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1 hour ago, UYI said:

The 20th anniversary of Liz's rape and the aftermath was last week.

These scenes are so good. I especially like the hints between Bobbie and Luke that they are reminded of Laura's rape, and Bobbie's declaration to Luke after Lucky takes Liz home that she can barely look at him. And they are especially more poignant in light of the #MeToo Movement these last few months. 

Also: Is this one of the last times we ever saw Foster? 

 

 

 

 

This was one of the Best stories ever done and where is Liz 20 years later? Is she in a healthy, loving relationship? No. This FAKAKTA show has her claiming and propping the MOST UNHEALTHY AND FUCKED UP “relationship” she has ever had. And naturally this show wouldn’t bring it up because it doesn’t fit into their vision or plot contrivances.

I was on the barge for two years, so I don’t know if the HACKS who were in charge did anything. But the last time they did, it was around the time she was having the affair with Nik.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I was on the barge for two years, so I don’t know if the HACKS who were in charge did anything. But the last time they did, it was around the time she was having the affair with Nik.

Yes, after Lucky's verbal smack down of Elizabeth and Nikolas in Elizabeth's home, she started to break down and then reacted strongly and negatively -in front of Ethan - to seeing a Valentine's Day event flyer. He didn't understand why, mentioned it to Nikolas, and Nikolas explained Elizabeth's emotional reaction.

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How many people actually know what Luke did to Laura? Was it considered an open secret in town for years? Does Robert know? 

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Yeah, I mainly meant the older characters, especially other women he dated like Holly (or Tracy, for that matter). I don't really expect more recent characters to know it, especially since he's gone. 

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3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This was one of the Best stories ever done and where is Liz 20 years later? Is she in a healthy, loving relationship? No. This FAKAKTA show has her claiming and propping the MOST UNHEALTHY AND FUCKED UP “relationship” she has ever had. And naturally this show wouldn’t bring it up because it doesn’t fit into their vision or plot contrivances.

I was on the barge for two years, so I don’t know if the HACKS who were in charge did anything. But the last time they did, it was around the time she was having the affair with Nik.

They brought back her rapist a year ago. He got off on parole and Franco locked him in a cage but he escaped and his brother killed him.

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2 minutes ago, ulkis said:

They brought back her rapist a year ago. He got off on parole and Franco locked him in a cage but he escaped and his brother killed him.

That story was all about Franco and not about Liz at all. But even in the small slivers Liz got of POV it was made clear that even after eighteen years and a prison term Tom Baker frightened her, which makes it all the more reprehensible and incongruous that a rape survivor would tell a woman that had spent two years thinking she had been raped to "get over it" and force her into situations where Sam would be around Franco.

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14 hours ago, UYI said:

How many people actually know what Luke did to Laura? Was it considered an open secret in town for years? Does Robert know? 

I don’t think Robert knows. Tracy knows. Ethan, Lucky, Lulu, and Nikolas know, as does Elizabeth. Scotty knows. Bobbie knows. I don’t think Sonny or Carly know, nor Jason.

ETA: I don’t know if Kevin knows. Stefan knew, so did Helena.

Edited by Melgaypet

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I think it was announced at some hearing over who got guardianship over Laura, but I'm not sure if that was a matter of public or private record.  

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Alexis definitely knew, during the rape re visited story, Helena blackmailed her into working for her, I forget why, but I'm sure Alexis knew all the details of why Lucky left his house, etc etc. That's what led up to Alexis teaming up with Luke to kill Helena. 

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Kevin knows.  One of the clues in Helena's (lame, stupid) game with her will led Laura and Kevin to the campus disco and Laura told him the story.

Edited by TeeVee329
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Lulu told Spinelli and Johnny, so I assume she's told Dante too.

Ned told Morgan and Kiki about it during the time that Fluke was being creepy to Kiki and I don't know how or why Ned would know unless it's become common knowledge.

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