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GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

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I don't blame her.

But no, I don't think any woman on this show can command the kind of latitude most of the men have. That includes Monaco. When she had a foot out the door in the late 2000s they turned Sam into something close to the Antichrist. That would never happen to Steve Burton - ever. It can and will happen to any woman on the show. Look how many times Liz has gone under the wheels. Look at how close Becky Herbst has come to losing her job, more than once. To say nothing of the rumors of Frank hoping to recast Kimberly with Rebecca Budig back in the day.

Edited by jsbt
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18 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I don't blame her.

But no, I don't think any woman on this show can command the kind of latitude most of the men have. That includes Monaco. When she had a foot out the door in the late 2000s they turned Sam into something close to the Antichrist. That would never happen to Steve Burton - ever.

I don't blame her if it's SB she specifically doesn't want to be paired with anymore. If it's that she doesn't want to be paired up with anyone besides BM, then yeah, I do, but alas, I have no way of doing that, no matter how much i try to detect whether she is signaling morse code with her eyes on screen, damn it. 

I think you could find some people who would argue that they were running Jason over before he left. Having McBain beat up, not wanting Sam to keep Franco's baby. I thought he seemed like a human being for once, but there were a ton of people who thought he looked downright awful.

I think Monaco has more pull than most on the show now,  but I think any pull anyone has now on the show is relatively little to what anyone had before.

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I don't blame her for not giving a damn what she's given to play if she doesn't, is what I mean. But no, I don't think she's tuning out on scenes with either man. I think she's given it her all to the whole thing, insofar as her performance as Sam has a certain cross-section of speeds. But if they tell her she's going back to Steve - and she almost certainly is - she's gonna do that because she knows it's where her bread is buttered, and IMO she doesn't have the clout to contest it without a mutual understanding. And yes, I think Kelly would had much more pull overall in the Brian Frons era. But even then they ran Sam down when she almost left the show. And today everyone is devalued - except the men, and anyone Frank loves. And Steve Burton is certainly top of the heap in terms of male privilege at GH.

And sure, they definitely were running Jason down in 2012. But he had it coming, so I didn't care. I agree he also seemed more human - as you say Jason was suddenly fallible as a character in storyline, which was a huge change. It was compelling to me. But Steve doesn't seem to like that, so he left. Still, I always knew he'd be back, and probably in force. And here he is.

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44 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I don't blame her for not giving a damn what she's given to play if she doesn't, is what I mean.

Oh, gotchya.

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3 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

You're making this about Steve Burton and I'm talking about the character of Sam McCall Morgan. I really have no response to what you just said. It has nothing to do with what I'm saying, so we can agree to disagree.

Yup, I agree.  

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22 hours ago, ulkis said:

I think you could find some people who would argue that they were running Jason over before he left. Having McBain beat up, not wanting Sam to keep Franco's baby. I thought he seemed like a human being for once, but there were a ton of people who thought he looked downright awful.

I actually thought it was out of character, but that was partially because Guza worshipped Jasus to such a degree that he never would have written such a complicated situation for him to grapple with. 

But it also felt like Jason got a pretty one-dimensional POV in a story that actually could have been very soapy for both him and Sam. Sam had wanted a child since she moved into his penthouse. Her odds of conceiving again weren't great, and she was willing to have this child because she was afraid that was her only shot. For Jason, raising this child would have meant a daily, living reminder of his complete failure to protect his wife from a man who was targeting him. That's a good soapy set-up, at least potentially. And McBain wasn't a bad addition, but RC/FV were too focused on ME when the real emotional center of the story should have been the Jason/Sam relationship.

Edited by Oracle42
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35 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I actually thought it was out of character, but that was partially because Guza worshipped Jasus to such a degree that he never would have written such a complicated situation for him to grapple with. 

But it also felt like Jason got a pretty one-dimensional POV in a story that actually could have been very soapy for both him and Sam. Sam had wanted a child since she moved into his penthouse. Her odds of conceiving again weren't great, and she was willing to have this child because she was afraid that was her only shot. For Jason, raising this child would have meant a daily, living reminder of his complete failure to protect his wife from a man who was targeting him. That's a good soapy set-up, at least potentially. Even the addition of McBain wasn't a bad addition, but RC/FV were too focused on ME when the real emotional center of the story should have been the Jason/Sam relationship.

Wasn't it Wolf that wrote the last of the Franco storyline?  Guza was gone in May 2011.  Wolf wrote the wedding/honeymoon stuff didn't he?  And RC took over at the end of that year into the fallout in 2012.  Hard to follow what the logic really was when a new writer comes in with a different take about characters.  

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Yeah, the long stretch with Jason/Sam on honeymoon for several weeks and the lady in white and the terrible pacing was Wolf/Altman. I didn't enjoy the woman's rape being about her SO's manpain, but I don't think anyone was out of character in that story including Franco - especially given what he'd done to Michael. But Jason "losing" to Franco isn't so much out of character as it is something Guza never would have written. 

I was talking about the aftermath that RC wrote. I actually didn't mind him having Jason send goons to beat up McBain.  I think that's one of the first actually mobstery things that Jason has ever done. But the idea that he didn't want Sam to have Franco's baby because the baby was genetically evil was dumb, underwritten, one-dimensional and out of character. It removed all complexity from his position because it was dumb underwritten and one-dimensional. 

SBu/Jason had it coming after all the characters and actors that have been thrown under the bus for the sake of the Holy Hitman, but it didn't make for good soap and I resented that aspect of it.

Edited by Oracle42
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11 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

SBu/Jason had it coming after all the characters and actors that have been thrown under the bus for the sake of the Holy Hitman, but it didn't make for good soap and I resented that aspect of it.

I get that but the one who really took a beating in the crap RC wrote was Elizabeth.  She once again had to play the big bad to the abomination known as jasam.  While you believe Stevie got crapped on (which I had zero problem with for the reason you stated) but, Becky got it even worse, imo.  

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10 hours ago, coffee drinker said:

I get that but the one who really took a beating in the crap RC wrote was Elizabeth.  She once again had to play the big bad to the abomination known as jasam.  While you believe Stevie got crapped on (which I had zero problem with for the reason you stated) but, Becky got it even worse, imo.  

Becky/Liz was always the loser. Even pre-RC. Which is why it makes me laugh that suddenly Sam/KeMo was the victim. If anyone was a favorite, it was her. And, no, I don't care about that ONE time in 2007.

Edited by HeatLifer
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Of course Sam's always been the favorite, and of course Liz has always been run down by the writing. But just because those things happened on or offscreen doesn't mean I'm going to fault Sam for making what I feel is a progressive character choice to break the cycle of her relationship with Jason - anymore than I felt I couldn't excuse Liz for basically raping ol' Drew/Jake/Jason so she can get Her Turn again.

I may have loved Luke back in the day, but that didn't excuse all the heinous, awful shit he pulled from around 2006-on (and that's not counting the stuff with Stefan and the hooker in '03). Same principle with Liz, same principle with Sam, same with "Jason" in 2015 or whenever - though I'd always hated Jason Morgan (or at least, since about '99) and been in Liz's corner regarding how he'd treated her, he still didn't deserve what the story presented was Liz stealing "Jason's" life away from himself and his family and child to gratify her own life. Some story choices are stuff I cannot countenance no matter the show's backstage preferences or trajectory. What was done with Liz is one of those choices. Sam's no victim, but she is making what I feel a positive choice atm even if she is in denial about her feelings for Jason. I can't fault that choice just because she is the show's preferred leading lady.

Edited by jsbt
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4 hours ago, jsbt said:

Sam for making what I feel is a progressive character choice to break the cycle of her relationship with Jason

She broke the cycle by marrying "Jason", telling him she would support anything he does? Now she's kissing Jason and lying about it? If anything, girl has regressed.

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11 hours ago, jsbt said:

Of course Sam's always been the favorite, and of course Liz has always been run down by the writing. But just because those things happened on or offscreen doesn't mean I'm going to fault Sam for making what I feel is a progressive character choice to break the cycle of her relationship with Jason - anymore than I felt I couldn't excuse Liz for basically raping ol' Drew/Jake/Jason so she can get Her Turn again.

I may have loved Luke back in the day, but that didn't excuse all the heinous, awful shit he pulled from around 2006-on (and that's not counting the stuff with Stefan and the hooker in '03). Same principle with Liz, same principle with Sam, same with "Jason" in 2015 or whenever - though I'd always hated Jason Morgan (or at least, since about '99) and been in Liz's corner regarding how he'd treated her, he still didn't deserve what the story presented was Liz stealing "Jason's" life away from himself and his family and child to gratify her own life. Some story choices are stuff I cannot countenance no matter the show's backstage preferences or trajectory. What was done with Liz is one of those choices. Sam's no victim, but she is making what I feel a positive choice atm even if she is in denial about her feelings for Jason. I can't fault that choice just because she is the show's preferred leading lady.

Meh, the filth known as sam has flip/flopped on the "danga" angle for years.  She spouted to dumbass lucky during lusam that Jason was dangerous.  But was happy to jump right back into the relationship with Jason and bray about having a kid with him with a quickness.  I think the filth also spouted to Patrick during the stupidity that was samtrick about being happy being away from what Jason represented.  The filth has made zero positive progress choosing anything remotely "smart" about being a "mom" now.  She's all about whatever penis she's riding at the moment when it comes to her view/choice on motherhood.  What would be a positive choice would have been for her to purposefully choose not to breed with Jason when they got back together back in 2009.  

The filth will drop Drew in a heartbeat if Jason tells her he's leaving the mob/Sonny/Carly.  That is the only thing holding the filth back now.  That Jason hasn't declared he'd ditch mob/Sonny/Carly for her.  As Heat Lifer said, she's lying to the man she supposedly loves now.  Another characteristic the filth touted herself  as being over the years.  Honest.  *snicker*.

Edited by coffee drinker
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3 hours ago, coffee drinker said:

She's all about whatever penis she's riding at the moment when it comes to her view/choice on motherhood. 

She has that in common with every woman on the show, unfortunately. Maybe minus only Robin.

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I missed much of Matt's time on the show. They really repurposed the Matt/Liz dynamic for Friz, didn't they? The rambling, the smart-guy humor, Liz as the "straight person" getting annoyed with it and forcing him back onto the topic. Very similar. Also, since this is ostensibly a Liz/Lucky clip: Jonathan Jackson makes a very plausible young Geary by around this time, although he is better-looking than Geary was at any point.   

Edited by Asp Burger
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Damn it. I liked Matt. Especially away from Maxie. Why the hell was he sentenced for killing a serial killer who murdered and tried to kill multiple people on a boat again?

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Britt's drunken, disgusted "Who's Levi?" (and she hadn't even met the Dunk at this point) might be my favorite moment from KT's tenure:

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@Darklazr

Lucky found out that Nik was banging Liz, and aside from getting drunk one night, didn't relapse into drug addiction. Lucky was in rehab, it would have been a good time to tell him. Why did Lucky develope drug habit? Thats right! It was from getting injured from dealing with one Jason's enemies. He didn't get that addiction when fucking Helena put him into a coma. I can't take how Guza decided to write off Jonathan Jackson seriously anyways. It was sour grapes that he wrote Lucky so crappily because JJ got a prime time gig. 

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21 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Lucky and Liz were trashed long before Jonathan Jackson returned and then left again.

Oh, believe me I remember. A part of me wished they keep Lucky dead instead of captured by Faison. 

 

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

@Ambrosefolly , Guza didn't write that, Garin Wolf did.

Mixing up the shit writers, my mistake.

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OMG, this print ad!

DT1dawcUQAEzjVr.jpg

A) Remember when the show had an actual twenty-something canvas that had stories that weren't about their mobster parents.

B) Poor Lucas (who?).  IIRC, the "real adventure" he got was dating a guy named Guy, getting gay bashed, his father dying, and then getting written out.

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1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I don't remember Georgie ever being that thin.

I’m more concerned that Lulu is only 4 feet tall.  Seriously. Look at that scale. 

Oh, before the public would instantly call out bad photoshopping. 

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Why is she on the table???

Lucas being in there is laughable because they did nothing with him, ever. This ad had to be after Tony died, which meant the dude was on for a couple more months in sporadic appearances and then disappeared.

Edited by jsbt
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11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Was Brook Lynn not on the show at this point?  I had thought she was part of this group.

I don't think so.  If this is from 2006 (and it would be if it was right after Tony died), then I think she was gone by then. I think Brook Lynn was back from 2004-2005, before coming back in 2010-2011.

And why is Lulu wearing camo? WTF?

Edited by UYI

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On 1/19/2018 at 0:15 PM, TeeVee329 said:

A) Remember when the show had an actual twenty-something canvas that had stories that weren't about their mobster parents.

Well...except for the one whose story was largely about his mobster parent. Until he got repurposed as a serial killer. The mob and serial murder wrapped up in one: DIego was the touchstone character of General Hospital

In theory, yeah, thumbs up to the idea of "twentysomething canvas," but I don't have happy memories of the aughts GH youth set.  None of those kids was a favorite for me. Diego was the worst of them, a hopeless case from the moment he showed up as SWSNBN's overgrown foster child. I did start to like the JMB Lulu more when she got involved with Dante, but that was a ways off.  

Hmm. I wonder why Spinelli did not make the grade in this layout. He definitely was around, nicknamin' and beboppin' and scattin' his little heart out.

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23 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Well...except for the one whose story was largely about his mobster parent. Until he got repurposed as a serial killer. The mob and serial murder wrapped up in one: DIego was the touchstone character of General Hospital

In theory, yeah, thumbs up to the idea of "twentysomething canvas," but I don't have happy memories of the aughts GH youth set.  None of those kids was a favorite for me. Diego was the worst of them, a hopeless case from the moment he showed up as SWSNBN's overgrown foster child. I did start to like the JMB Lulu more when she got involved with Dante, but that was a ways off.  

Hmm. I wonder why Spinelli did not make the grade in this layout. He definitely was around, nicknamin' and beboppin' and scattin' his little heart out.

If memory serves, the main story this group was dealing with at that time was that "Cruel Intentions" thing with Lulu and Diego scheming to break up Dillon and Georgie and Lulu ending up pregnant.  Maxie was off...I dunno...was this when she was sleeping with Lucky?  And we know the bupkis Lucas (who?) got to do. 

And I'm pretty sure Spinelli wasn't around until that was all over and the likes of Coop and Logan were on the scene.

Edited by TeeVee329

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You're right. I misremembered how long we have been enjoying/suffering Spinelli. I see his first episode was November 2006, and he may not have been fully absorbed into the youth group until a little later. At first he was just wearing a ski mask and yelping at Jason.  

Damn, at the mention of Logan. Such a wasted opportunity. They struck gold with someone who looked so much like Shriner, and he had a lot of charisma and was a good enough actor. But I've heard all the stories. 

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22 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Damn, at the mention of Logan. Such a wasted opportunity. They struck gold with someone who looked so much like Shriner, and he had a lot of charisma and was a good enough actor. But I've heard all the stories. 

Yep. It's a cautionary tale at this point.

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Quote

If memory serves, the main story this group was dealing with at that time was that "Cruel Intentions" thing with Lulu and Diego scheming to break up Dillon and Georgie and Lulu ending up pregnant.  Maxie was off...I dunno...was this when she was sleeping with Lucky?  And we know the bupkis Lucas (who?) got to do. 

I think this ad pre-dates that story because I was watching when those things occurred but I never saw the version of Lucas in the ad (was he the one that Maxie had a crush on?)  Was this possibly around the Sage time or Maxie's first time being broadcast on the internet?  I didn't see either of those stories but I've heard people talk about it.

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4 minutes ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

I think this ad pre-dates that story because I was watching when those things occurred but I never saw the version of Lucas in the ad (was he the one that Maxie had a crush on?)  Was this possibly around the Sage time or Maxie's first time being broadcast on the internet?  I didn't see either of those stories but I've heard people talk about it.

I think this ad was promoting the start of that "Cruel Intentions" storyline, that that was going to be the summer story for all of them.

The Lucas (who?) that Maxie and Georgie both grossly crushed on for a second was Ryan Carnes.  It's possibly you never saw this Lucas because of the minimal, minimal screen time he got before he faded away (how times have changed, #eyeroll).  I mean, they cared so little, they named the first guy he dated Guy!

Edited by TeeVee329

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4 hours ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

Ah, that would explain it.  I recognized everyone in the picture except him.

Yeah, that story was in 2002. 

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I believe these scenes were 20 years ago this month (January 1998).

"Bobbie...I'm your daughter. I'm Caroline."

SUCH great acting from Jackie Zeman, Brad Maule, and ESPECIALLY Sarah Brown, of course. And while I don't have these scenes posted here, her reaction to Virginia's death is HEARTBREAKING. 

Edited by UYI
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He had a creepy Nice Guy crush on her when they were in spy training and he was a hunchback. She rejected him when he tried to force a creepy Nice Guy kiss on her and he never forgave her. 

And at some point I think Alex slept with him while pretending to be Anna. 

Anna is obsessed with taking him down for unspecified crimes that are unrelated to the fact that he murdered Nik 

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UGH.  Thanks @Oracle42. I fucking HATE Valentini for all his revisionist retconning of characters that were in Anna's life because he's too fucking cheap to mine the rich history of this show. Not to mention the FUBARED sekrith child of Faison's BULLSHIT.

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38 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Anna is obsessed with taking him down for unspecified crimes that are unrelated to the fact that he murdered Nik 

I'm not sure she is anymore.  The whole thing with Dr. Michael Easton started out with her targeting Cassandra to get at Valentin, but then somehow became about her and Valentin teaming up to get at Cassandra.  And then they parted amicably kinda?  It was weird.

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Figures. Valentin generally bores me so I  don't pay much attention to his scenes. But I have noticed that they keep trying to have it both ways with Anna/Valentin

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Sweet Liesl, so misunderstood! She was merely punishing Robin for being mean to Drew 5 years in the future.

Edited by HeatLifer
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See, you get it! #justkidding

I do think Kathleen Gati is good in this moment, playing that Dr. O isn't taking any particular relish in it.  And I had forgotten that the show hinted at her being Britt's mother here, a rare bit of forethought for this show.

But the headline in these scenes, as always, is Duke and Anna being reunited.  Duke reacting to finally seeing her, kissing her hand, calling her his hero gets me every time.  That we're supposed to believe this man betrays her in a year's time for the likes of Sonny is just ridiculous.

Speaking of ridiculous, Dr. O getting the drop on Robert.  I get that Robin being alive couldn't be revealed yet, and that they had to pivot Robert out of the show again, but they could have written/staged this better.

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40 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Speaking of ridiculous, Dr. O getting the drop on Robert.  I get that Robin being alive couldn't be revealed yet, and that they had to pivot Robert out of the show again, but they could have written/staged this better.

I'm going to defend Robert here (I know, BIG SHOCK, heh) and say it was the shock of seeing Robin alive and not that burned up corpse, that allowed Obrecht to get the drop on Robert. Robin was/is his baby.

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