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ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E08: The Gelato and the Pube

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Really with the roof chickens? Darren Star sure thinks his old plots are a lot more clever than they actually are. A LOT. 

I hated a couple things about this episode. Richard's son is like 20, right? He can't find a more private/sanitary place to store his sex toys? Also, that fabulous, spacious apartment doesn't have a guest room? Also, a professional therapist doesn't know when his live-in girlfriend is lying? She's not even good at it!

The couple with the chickens seriously pre-selected a $500 menu for neighbors that were there as an apology for being obnoxious? I would've killed those damn chickens in front of them for a stunt like that. 

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Oh, Charles was really attractive to me tonight! His smile at Liza as she handed him his phone grabbed my heart. And his insistence that Pauline would not "mess us up" (him and Liza)? How deep his voice was gave me good goosebumps. What a man!! ***swooning***

I saw the roof chickens on SatC, but that storyline amused me. How could The restaurateurs not know how tacky it is to choose a $500 menu as an apology & expect the ladies to pay? Their faces as Maggie offered them chicken, though, made me laugh. 

Poor Diana. I'd be nervous to sit n that linen sofa too. Who does that? Spoiled brat kids? Why not take it to the bathroom if you really can't help yourself? Eeeeeeeew. 

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Fun fact: Phoebe Dynevor, the lovely young actress playing Josh's new love interest Clare, is British and her mother Sally Dynevor has been on the hugely popular UK soap Coronation Street since the 1980s.

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Ugh.  Possibly my least favorite ep so far -- ick to the title, ick to the story behind the title, ick to 95% of the wardrobe, ick to Richard's subplot, ick to the ex!

I will allow some begrudging love for the last scene.  And I bow before Maggie's little mindfuck -- wish I'd thought of it first!

Speaking of: @ZuluQueenOfDwarves, I completely spaced the roof chix repeat!!  I overlooked it as tonight's SATC moment in favor of the "flesh-light" -- which, also: Ick.

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2 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Really with the roof chickens? Darren Star sure thinks his old plots are a lot more clever than they actually are. A LOT. 

I hated a couple things about this episode. Richard's son is like 20, right? He can't find a more private/sanitary place to store his sex toys? Also, that fabulous, spacious apartment doesn't have a guest room? Also, a professional therapist doesn't know when his live-in girlfriend is lying? She's not even good at it!

The couple with the chickens seriously pre-selected a $500 menu for neighbors that were there as an apology for being obnoxious? I would've killed those damn chickens in front of them for a stunt like that. 

I don't think Diana's apartment has ever looked spacious. In fact, it's one of the rare tv apartments that looks appropriately sized. Knowing Diana, it's probably on the Upper East Side, possibly prewar. It has a balcony and a fireplace. It's a building with a doornan because that was a plot point before she gave Richard a key. So purchase price for a 1 bedroom is between $600,000 and a million. To rent, $3,000 - $5,000 a month. There is no way that this place is meant to be larger than 800 sq ft.

Regardless, Richard's obnoxious spoiled son is terrible.

The chicken neighbors are assholes.

Everyone, including Josh, knows that Kelsey's type is douchebro.

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Maggie rustles some feathers.

Ha!  The description was actually accurate.  :D

 

44 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't think Diana's apartment has ever looked spacious. In fact, it's one of the rare tv apartments that looks appropriately sized. Knowing Diana, it's probably on the Upper East Side, possibly prewar. It has a balcony and a fireplace. It's a building with a doornan because that was a plot point before she gave Richard a key. So purchase price for a 1 bedroom is between $600,000 and a million. To rent, $3,000 - $5,000 a month. There is no way that this place is meant to be larger than 800 sq ft.

Regardless, Richard's obnoxious spoiled son is terrible.

The chicken neighbors are assholes.

Everyone, including Josh, knows that Kelsey's type is douchebro.

It was big enough though to host that Hegge party and there's at least an office since that's where Liza and Hillary Duff's character were fighting.  I guess though if it didn't have a bed the couch was still the only option.  

I wasn't completely on Diana's side (he was an idiot but it had only been a night) until the moment she found the fleshlight.  So much EWWWWWWW!  

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3 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Also, that fabulous, spacious apartment doesn't have a guest room?

Doesn't she have a huge room sized closet? In an earlier episode they showed a huge closet, I interpreted that as an additional bedroom technically but converted into a massive closet? Am I imagining that? Watched too many episodes of Cribs?

 

Last year I literally had to check IMDB because I thought it was the same actor playing Kelsey's various d-bag boyfriends. 

 

So nice to see less off the shoulder peasant tops this episode. I know they're the thing now for summer but I'm over them. 

 

I guess theyre slow burning this Charles/Liza thing... still makes me squeee. 

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This may be the first episode where I liked more than two outfits. I liked Kelsey's asymmetric/one shoulder dress at the beginning, Liza's red top at the neighbors' restaurant, and Diana's pale pink/lilac dress at the very end. I really liked Liza's green shirt dress in the last scene. It looked modern, appropriate for her fake age and her real age, it was flattering on her (unlike some of the weird stuff they put her in sometimes), and looked appropriate to wear to work in an office. I didn't love Liza's purple and chartreuse mod dress and I really didn't like Kelsey's striped shirt as a dress. I thought she was in her pajamas when she was sitting on the sofa in that.

The chicken neighbors are the worst. Not only did they have loud ILLEGAL animals on the roof but they were sneaky assholes. First they said, "You have to come to the restaurant. It's the least we could do to make up for all this noise." That didn't sound like "we'll save a table for you." That sounded like "We would like to buy you dinner since we have all these loud ass chickens making noise." Then when Liza and Maggie went to the restaurant, the guys said, "As our guests, everything's already been arranged for you." When you say someone is your guest, that doesn't mean "I expect you to pay $500 for something you didn't even ask for." I need someone like Maggie hatching revenge schemes for me. First she slashed her painting at Montana's art show and now she's calling the health department but telling the jerks upstairs that she roasted their chickens. Ha!

Also the worst: Richard. Your college age son is not a surprise to spring on the girlfriend who was kind enough to let you move in with her because you were so broke that you were living in your office. You don't get to invite sleepover guests to her house, especially without asking her permission ahead of time. And you don't get to act like it's okay for him to leave his sex toys on her sofa either. What made me especially mad was the way he was manipulating her by telling her that she was more compassionate than his ex-wife. GROSS.

I was not down with Pauline's rationalization that she left her kids for a year so she could teach her daughters that there's more than being a trophy wife. It sounded too much like the women who go on reality shows and then say that they're doing this for their kids.

Despite Charles saying that he is done with Pauline, I know it's just a matter of time before she worms her way between him and Liza. I predict that Pauline will catch Charles and Liza kissing right before her book is published and all of her press will be about how she was betrayed by her editor sleeping with her husband behind her back. I mean, Darren Star is nothing if not predictable about that kind of drama.

Claire's Irish accent sounded a bit off to me, but she seems a little too perfect right now. Heh, but I love that even Josh knows that Kelsey's type is douche bro asshole.

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When Charles told Liza that nothing will change between them, I surely expected him to finish it off with asking her out. He wants her badly enough and if he is serious it is about time they spend some quality time with each other.

All of the storylines were a bit weird this week, weren't they?

Richard's son and his sex toys, I mean who leaves something like that lying around on a living room couch? - Richard putting it back because he doesn't want to embarass his son was a nice dad gesture, but inappropriate regarding Diane.

The rooftop douchebags - I second that it was inappropriate to invite them and let them pay what is a hefty bill. The whole scenario was quite forced considering it was for episode only? So the chickens, lying bucketloads of eggs, and a perfectly vibrant garden just sprang up on the rooftop over night? At least we got a great Maggie moment from it.

Not too keen on the irish girl. At the moment the show does not know what to do with their secondary plots while hardly moving Liza's story forward?

and one more thing: Charles having his crush babysit while he meets with his ex? that, to me, was the pinnacle of weird for this episode.

Edited by Aulty
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51 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was not down with Pauline's rationalization that she left her kids for a year so she could teach her daughters that there's more than being a trophy wife. It sounded too much like the women who go on reality shows and then say that they're doing this for their kids.

I forgot about this. *Eyeroll*. The longest I've ever known anyone of any gender who left to do some writing for longer than a week—and their partner was well-aware of what was going on. Otherwise, they scheduled their writing around their parenting responsibilities. I've known musicians who went on tour away from their kids, but never for a year, and always taking the kids on part of the tour and calling them every day. This radio silence is bull. 

I can't stand people knowingly being bad parents, then trying to justify it. You did not bail on your family and write a book, FOR A YEAR, for the sake of your daughters, Pauline. You did it for yourself. 

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I can't figure out what Charles and Liza's relationship is even supposed to be. He's practically declaring his love and devotion and fidelity to her, but they've not even actually been out on a date. He lets her babysit his kids while he stays out til all hours with his ex, and is perfunctory with her when he gets back. Is he expecting her to wait for him to figure his shit out? I don't even know.

The roof chickens (yeah, i also said that immediately upon seeing them) were a stupid subplot and the restaurant guys were super shady. I'm a vegetarian, so Maggie pretending to cook his chickens wasn't as funny as it was supposed to be, but whatever.

I want to actually HEAR more of Pauline's explanation for running out on her marriage and her kids, and how she can say she's still mad about Charles when she dumped him, supposedly for someone else. Everyone is reading the book, but we're not really privy to the story being told. I really like Jennifer Westfeldt (and again, seeing her and Liza together...they definitely look like contemporaries. I really want Pauline to express shock that she's supposedly 27) but the notion that she left her kids for a year to be a better role model for them really does sound like Elizabeth Gilbert/Glennon Doyle Melton type self indulgent rich white lady crap. So yeah, probably be a best seller.

I loved Liza's little green Alice+Olivia dress too, and does anyone rock a caftan like Debi Mazar? I don't do caftans, but i do swan around in kimonos a lot at home, so her style resonates with me, tho she looks a million times better in it all than i do.

The fleshlight thing on the sofa? gross, kid. Put that thing away.

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20 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I can't stand people knowingly being bad parents, then trying to justify it. You did not bail on your family and write a book, FOR A YEAR, for the sake of your daughters, Pauline. You did it for yourself. 

I have first-hand experience with a woman who bailed on her family with a somewhat similar rationalization. I've seen the havoc she left behind for others to deal with - there is no coming back.

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I LOVED this outfit!!! It's high key my favourite Liza outfit in all four seasons.

I'm 100% over Pauline tbh. her angles are clear and and I'm tired of her. However, I'm always down to see Liza spend time with Charles' kids. They're good tv kids, as they are not annoying and we rarely see them, and I love seeing Liza spend time with them.

I'm iffy on Clare (almost called her Kathleen thanks to Amazons Last Tycoon) I agree that she seems too perfect. But she's cute and fun and exactly Josh's type. And it was sorta sweet that Liza so flawlessly set them up like that. (clearly they've both moved on.)

I'm attracted to Charles, but I'm bored by Charles and I do not get it and I don't understand. 

I love Maggie. That is all I want to say on that plot, too. 

Totally forgot Richard existed. Didn't need that subplot at all.

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1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I forgot about this. *Eyeroll*. The longest I've ever known anyone of any gender who left to do some writing for longer than a week—and their partner was well-aware of what was going on. Otherwise, they scheduled their writing around their parenting responsibilities. I've known musicians who went on tour away from their kids, but never for a year, and always taking the kids on part of the tour and calling them every day. This radio silence is bull. 

I can't stand people knowingly being bad parents, then trying to justify it. You did not bail on your family and write a book, FOR A YEAR, for the sake of your daughters, Pauline. You did it for yourself. 

This especially bothered me because in the previous episode, she talked about how she felt trapped and unfulfilled so to me it sounded like it was more than just "I want to write a book to show my daughters that there's more to life than marrying well." And really, it's okay if you felt unhappy. Being a wife and mom isn't the be all, end all for everyone. You're allowed to want more and you're allowed to do more. Clearly she and Charles were not hurting for money so they could have hired help - a nanny, a cook, a housekeeper, etc. - which would have given Pauline more time to herself so she could write. The kids aren't toddlers so she didn't need to be around 24/7. She could have written during the day while they're in school. She could have rented a work space so that she could write outside the house without the kids coming in every five minutes with something that needs her immediate attention. She could have gone to a writers' retreat for a week or two of solid uninterrupted writing (or just gone out of town to write for a week or two). If her real objective was just to write, she had options (unlike other moms who don't have the luxury of the kind of money that she had access to so they have to work full time, take care of their kids, and then write in the wee hours of the night when everyone is asleep). But that's why I think her "I'm doing this for my girls" excuse is just that - an excuse. She was unhappy with her entire life and she wanted a change so she left. Don't get me wrong - I think everyone should pursue their dreams. I just think that she could have done it in a way that was less hurtful and confusing to her kids, who she claims to be doing this for.

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7 hours ago, Refresh said:

Doesn't she have a huge room sized closet? In an earlier episode they showed a huge closet, I interpreted that as an additional bedroom technically but converted into a massive closet? Am I imagining that? Watched too many episodes of Cribs?

 

Last year I literally had to check IMDB because I thought it was the same actor playing Kelsey's various d-bag boyfriends. 

 

So nice to see less off the shoulder peasant tops this episode. I know they're the thing now for summer but I'm over them. 

 

I guess theyre slow burning this Charles/Liza thing... still makes me squeee. 

Kelsey and Liza's fight was in Diana's closet. You can tell because there is a wall of shoes behind them. There is actually an apartment tour. It's really not that big.

Lauren was dead right when she called Kelsey a doppelbanger.

I actually liked some of the things Liza wore tonight. ?

I get why Pauline had to unplug from her life to write this book. I also get why just renting a workspace or going to a week long writer's retreat wouldn't have been enough. She's been with Charles for 20 years and in this role of UES wife and mother for 20 years. Her feelings on her life were complicated and twisted up. It's quite likely that it took a month or two just to get her head on straight. That said, she could have rented a place in Sag Harbor, Provincetown, the Berkshires or outside of Philly so that she could come back to the city on the weekends to see the girls. Yes, people from the city visit those places, but when it's not summer they can feel really quiet and like a small town. However, those places are still close enough that Pauline could get back to the city in 4 or 5 hours.

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I wasn't crazy about this episode. It felt disjointed and some of the lines felt forced/flat. Like Charles speech before he went out to dinner. Just seemed like he was spilling words out.

 

As for Charles, he was a real jerk this episode. I get that he was under emotional stress, but he seemed out of character. First to keep asking Liza to stay after she said she had to leave, then to just have her leave when he got back, and I thought the follow up conversation in his office about marriage/kids/divorce was a little condescending. The last conversation was sweet, but it's kind of coming out of nowhere. Saying "us" like there is a them. They haven't talked at all about what their relationship is and what they want. They haven't even been on a date. That is what I want as a Charles/Liza shipper. I want to see some relationship, not just a make out scene. Ugh, getting annoyed with these writers.

 

And I completely disagree about Pauline and Liza looking similar. Jenifer Westfeldt's face doesn't move and is so distracting/annoying. I looked at before/after photos of her online and she was really beautiful. I think she should have allowed herself to age gracefully as Sutton has. I could buy Sutton as being in her 30's and Jenifer being in her early 50's. Don't get me wrong, she's still attractive and looks great "for her age." But to me it's obvious she's had work done which is a dead giveaway someone is older. 

Edited by CAT19 · Reason: Grammar
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11 hours ago, 17wheatthins said:

Their faces as Maggie offered them chicken, though, made me laugh. 

That was my favorite part of the episode. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I didn't love Liza's purple and chartreuse mod dress

Was that the super short one that barely covered her butt? (I know, Liza wears a lot of very short skirts and dresses, but this one stood out to me for some reason.) I was amazed she could sit down without flashing Charles, even with her legs crossed.

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was not down with Pauline's rationalization that she left her kids for a year so she could teach her daughters that there's more than being a trophy wife. It sounded too much like the women who go on reality shows and then say that they're doing this for their kids.

I side-eyed the "for my daughters" bit, but I thought Pauline was absolutely correct when she said men leave their families and it's not treated like some crime against humanity. 

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Okay...

Filed Under SAY WHAT:  If Liza believes Charles is all IN on her, she's delusional.  Charles and her have shared a bunch of flirtations and two kisses...not even a date...he is not divorced and avoided her for 24 hours after he saw his wife...Those are not the actions of someone that has moved on....mark my words...he still has doubts he is just pissed at the way his wife left him and his kids...understandably

What Liza and Charles have shared doesn't compare to what he had with his wife...and I would be extremely leery about someone saying they were all in based on nothing...they haven't even dated yet...is he all in on dating her? 

 

Filed Under thank God: Kelsey and Josh as friends is a yes...

 

Filed under ridiculous schemes:  Charles' wife...who the F writes a book about abandoning your family and then goes to your ex's publishing house to shop it...I mean whoever he is...he was raising your kids alone solo...and is still their father...this is beyond sketchy...this is her plot to get him back...why not just call his office and you know talk to him

 

Man this episode riled me up...

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3 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

I LOVED this outfit!!! It's high key my favourite Liza outfit in all four seasons.

I'm 100% over Pauline tbh. her angles are clear and and I'm tired of her. However, I'm always down to see Liza spend time with Charles' kids. They're good tv kids, as they are not annoying and we rarely see them, and I love seeing Liza spend time with them.

I'm iffy on Clare (almost called her Kathleen thanks to Amazons Last Tycoon) I agree that she seems too perfect. But she's cute and fun and exactly Josh's type. And it was sorta sweet that Liza so flawlessly set them up like that. (clearly they've both moved on.)

I'm attracted to Charles, but I'm bored by Charles and I do not get it and I don't understand. 

I love Maggie. That is all I want to say on that plot, too. 

Totally forgot Richard existed. Didn't need that subplot at all.

I also forgot Richard existed and something about him seems off or something...I am not sure what

3 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

I LOVED this outfit!!! It's high key my favourite Liza outfit in all four seasons.

I'm 100% over Pauline tbh. her angles are clear and and I'm tired of her. However, I'm always down to see Liza spend time with Charles' kids. They're good tv kids, as they are not annoying and we rarely see them, and I love seeing Liza spend time with them.

I'm iffy on Clare (almost called her Kathleen thanks to Amazons Last Tycoon) I agree that she seems too perfect. But she's cute and fun and exactly Josh's type. And it was sorta sweet that Liza so flawlessly set them up like that. (clearly they've both moved on.)

I'm attracted to Charles, but I'm bored by Charles and I do not get it and I don't understand. 

I love Maggie. That is all I want to say on that plot, too. 

Totally forgot Richard existed. Didn't need that subplot at all.

Charles is hot but boring.  He isn't fleshed out enough or something

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I side-eyed the "for my daughters" bit, but I thought Pauline was absolutely correct when she said men leave their families and it's not treated like some crime against humanity. 

While society might accept the deadbeat dad as a cliche, doesn't mean children and families aren't hurt by it. And generally, a dad who walks out on his kids won't be heralded as a hero for following his dream when he comes back a year later. Pauline is delusional if she thinks she can check in and out of motherhood like it's a Ritz Carlton with zero repercussions. 

Diana's got her work cut out for her. I just don't see how they can spin this so Pauline doesn't come across as a completely self-indulgent asshole. In fact, that might actually be a great strategy. Hate-reading still sells books.

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9 minutes ago, rho said:

While society might accept the deadbeat dad as a cliche, doesn't mean children and families aren't hurt by it. And generally, a dad who walks out on his kids won't be heralded as a hero for following his dream when he comes back a year later. Pauline is delusional if she thinks she can check in and out of motherhood like it's a Ritz Carlton with zero repercussions. 

Diana's got her work cut out for her. I just don't see how they can spin this so Pauline doesn't come across as a completely self-indulgent asshole. In fact, that might actually be a great strategy. Hate-reading still sells books.

It's terrible when anyone leaves their children by choice.  I am so sick of people pointing to other people when they make a mistake-ie Pauline..

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1 hour ago, CAT19 said:

 

 

And I completely disagree about Pauline and Liza looking similar. Jenifer Westfeldt's face doesn't move and is so distracting/annoying. I looked at before/after photos of her online and she was really beautiful. I think she should have allowed herself to age gracefully as Sutton has. I could buy Sutton as being in her 30's and Jenifer being in her early 50's. Don't get me wrong, she's still attractive and looks great "for her age." But to me it's obvious she's had work done which is a dead giveaway someone is older. 

I think I"m not good at determing when someone has had work done, unless it's just egregious, like Priscilla Presley or Meg Ryan or that Ken doll guy or whatever. It never even occurrred to me Westfeldt has had plastic surgery. I've been a fan of hers since Kissing Jessica Stein,15+ years ago and I still think she looks great, and yeah, I think she and Sutton look about the same age, give or take. Certainly not 20 years different. Maybe not even the five they actually are.

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I just watched the last couple minutes because I missed the face Liza made when she left Charles' office. Then saw the preview again for next week. Josh saying, "I want to take you on a proper date." This is how it's done! The last two episodes have made Charles look like a doofus/jerk. 

 

My my prediction based on what Darren Star said in an interview, *POSSIBLE SPOILERS*

Spoiler

 that the season finale is in Ireland for a very special reason. My guess is a Josh/Claire wedding. But, I don't think this necessarily closes the door for Team Josh. He could have kids with Claire, it doesn't work out for whatever reason, and ends up with Liza. 

Edited by CAT19
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16 minutes ago, rho said:

While society might accept the deadbeat dad as a cliche, doesn't mean children and families aren't hurt by it. And generally, a dad who walks out on his kids won't be heralded as a hero for following his dream when he comes back a year later.

No one is saying kids and families aren't hurt by a parent walking out. But society still treats fathers and mothers very differently. Dads are heroes for changing diapers and taking kids to the park. Moms are evil incarnate when they admit being a parent isn't all-fulfilling.

And I think a father returning to his family probably would be treated more sympathetically than a mother returning.

Charles isn't divorced yet—he made a point this episode to say he's legally separated—and I think Liza should be very careful until his situation is resolved. He's a mess emotionally.

Edited by dubbel zout
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3 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I think I"m not good at determing when someone has had work done, unless it's just egregious, like Priscilla Presley or Meg Ryan or that Ken doll guy or whatever. It never even occurrred to me Westfeldt has had plastic surgery. I've been a fan of hers since Kissing Jessica Stein,15+ years ago and I still think she looks great, and yeah, I think she and Sutton look about the same age, give or take. Certainly not 20 years different. Maybe not even the five they actually are.

I mean no one knows for sure, but I was LOLing at the comments at the end of this article: 

 

http://www.celebrityplasticsurgery24.com/jennifer-westfeldt-plastic-surgery/#

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13 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

No one is saying kids and families aren't hurt by a parent walking out. But society still treats fathers and mothers very differently. Dads are heroes for changing diapers and taking kids to the park. Moms are evil incarnate when they admit being a parent isn't all-fulfilling.

And I think a father returning to his family probably would be treated more sympathetically than a mother returning.

Charles isn't divorced yet—he made a point this episode to say he's legally separated—and I think Liza should be very careful until his situation is resolved. He's a mess emotionally.

This is where the writers are playing fast and loose with their story. It has been mentioned several times that Charles is divorced but now they need him to technically still be single. Is Liza even divorced? Last I saw her husband tore up the papers at the hospital. 

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20 minutes ago, soapygal said:

This is where the writers are playing fast and loose with their story. It has been mentioned several times that Charles is divorced but now they need him to technically still be single. Is Liza even divorced? Last I saw her husband tore up the papers at the hospital. 

I always remember Charles not being divorced...in fact the first time they discussed it was when Liza babysat for him and he told her she just left them

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1 hour ago, dmc said:

I also forgot Richard existed and something about him seems off or something...I am not sure what

He seemed off from the start - a psychiatrist who slept in his office, smoozes up to Diana, squatters in her flat ... I never liked him.

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3 hours ago, CAT19 said:

And I completely disagree about Pauline and Liza looking similar. Jenifer Westfeldt's face doesn't move and is so distracting/annoying. I looked at before/after photos of her online and she was really beautiful. I think she should have allowed herself to age gracefully as Sutton has. I could buy Sutton as being in her 30's and Jenifer being in her early 50's. Don't get me wrong, she's still attractive and looks great "for her age." But to me it's obvious she's had work done which is a dead giveaway someone is older. 

It's so hard to look at it it feels like a punishment inflicted upon me.  

Liza's green dress was wonderful.

I used to somewhat find Peter Hermann attractive but here in this role it just doesn't do anything for me unfortunately.  I guess so far he's too buttoned up.

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I think I"m not good at determing when someone has had work done, unless it's just egregious, like Priscilla Presley or Meg Ryan or that Ken doll guy or whatever. It never even occurrred to me Westfeldt has had plastic surgery.

For me she is one of the most egregious examples in Hollywood.  I've never been able to look at her face.  It's the area around her nose and mouth. 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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6 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

 

Totally forgot Richard existed. Didn't need that subplot at all.

I didn't have any problem with Richard until this episode, even with his oddities. I think now I was just happy to have someone take Diane's story away from pining so ridiculously for Charles. Now I'm just done with Richard. You don't bring your almost-grown son into your girlfriend's (not your) house uninvited , and then make excuses for him when she runs into his sex toys in her living room. Anybody that clueless  and thoughtless can "get gone" and take his gross man child with him.

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3 hours ago, dmc said:

Charles is hot but boring.  He isn't fleshed out enough or something

Forgive me for being crass, but Charles is six straight minutes in the missionary position, then falls asleep on top of you while you have to finish yourself off.

And im still attracted to him. They do need to flesh him out a lot. Give the man a hobby or something  please 

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17 minutes ago, allonsyalice said:

Forgive me for being crass, but Charles is six straight minutes in the missionary position, then falls asleep on top of you while you have to finish yourself off.

And im still attracted to him. They do need to flesh him out a lot. Give the man a hobby or something  please 

But you keep forgetting about page 58. Whatever that means.

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7 minutes ago, Claudia Kishi said:

Page 58 was anal. Diana got flustered and said it aloud when Charles interrupted them talking about it. 

Oh, I know what it means in terms of the show. I meant what they were trying to do by making Charles edgy fell flat.

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it's not edgy, but it is surprising, for Charles. Anal can be.... untidy. Charles seems awfully tidy, like he'd go shower immediately after even regular sex. Maybe they were being just awfully naughty and daring one drunk nite and doing it doggy style and he just....missed. Instant anal. 

I somehow don't see Liza into it either. 

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8 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I somehow don't see Liza into it either. 

I'm not going to google it but didn't it come up with Josh at one point? When he wanted to be her first with something but she ended up getting the tattoo instead? 

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2 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I'm not going to google it but didn't it come up with Josh at one point? When he wanted to be her first with something but she ended up getting the tattoo instead? 

Right! She said she tried it during her marriage and didn't like it very much.

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It seems that tv and movies (to a lesser extent) are including stories about anal so much more. I don't know how edgy it really is but I kinda just shrug about stuff like that now that I'm older. To each his or her own, if I don't like it, I won't do it. But honestly the way they were over-reacting to "page 58", I said out loud to no one in particular if they are being this over the top and it turns out that the wild side that Charles has is anal sex, this show is going to be super lame. Of course, it was that.

Seriously, writers, the internet could have easily suggested things that are edgy but not inappropriate for network tv if you needed some suggestions. That was lazy. 

Didn't I see that chicken storyline in SATC in 1999? Boring.

I liked the girl Liza picked for Josh. It'd be nice if that actually sticks.

I'm so confused about Charles and Liza. What's he all in on? Flirting, making eyes, and not having sex with her? 

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15 hours ago, Aulty said:

When Charles told Liza that nothing will change between them, I surely expected him to finish it off with asking her out. He wants her badly enough and if he is serious it is about time they spend some quality time with each other.

All of the storylines were a bit weird this week, weren't they?

Richard's son and his sex toys, I mean who leaves something like that lying around on a living room couch? - Richard putting it back because he doesn't want to embarass his son was a nice dad gesture, but inappropriate regarding Diane.

The rooftop douchebags - I second that it was inappropriate to invite them and let them pay what is a hefty bill. The whole scenario was quite forced considering it was for episode only? So the chickens, lying bucketloads of eggs, and a perfectly vibrant garden just sprang up on the rooftop over night? At least we got a great Maggie moment from it.

Not too keen on the irish girl. At the moment the show does not know what to do with their secondary plots while hardly moving Liza's story forward?

and one more thing: Charles having his crush babysit while he meets with his ex? that, to me, was the pinnacle of weird for this episode.

To be fair, Liza did offer. He didn't ask her to babysit.

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6 hours ago, soapygal said:

But you keep forgetting about page 58. Whatever that means.

 

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

it's not edgy, but it is surprising, for Charles. Anal can be.... untidy. Charles seems awfully tidy, like he'd go shower immediately after even regular sex. Maybe they were being just awfully naughty and daring one drunk nite and doing it doggy style and he just....missed. Instant anal. 

I somehow don't see Liza into it either. 

Wait, do we know page 58 was about anal with Charles? Or is it about the guy she ran off with? Or some other story she wrote about? I got the impression that the book was about fighting with Charles and sleeping with other people and/or comparing him to previous exes?

6 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

Forgive me for being crass, but Charles is six straight minutes in the missionary position, then falls asleep on top of you while you have to finish yourself off.

He's hot but I 100% agree with this ^^

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I enjoyed watching this episode, but thinking about it afterwards I found I was really annoyed.  So much was unrealistic (beyond what is normal for this show) and so much was either out of character, or distorted characters to the point they are becoming unlikable.

 

For example:  I don't buy that Josh would have been to a bar frequently enough that the hot bartender knew his usual drink without him chatting Clare up at least once.

Also, what, exactly does Charles think he has with Liza?  From his perspective, she's a 20-something editorial assistant who works for him, who he bounces ideas off professionally and personally, who he confesses his deep feelings to, intermittently makes out with, but then asks to babysit when his wife rolls back into town...and then blows off when she texts him that she needs to leave, repeatedly (first text was the pre-arranged one, but the rest?) and then is cold and standoffish when he finally shows up back home. 

Way back when, I was on board with he and Liza coming together, but the way they have painted him since their work trip/make out that derailed Josh's engagement just makes him come off as bad news and very emotionally stunted.   Also for what it's worth, both he and Liza are still married...he knows he's still married so what's he doing messing around with an employee and then acting all "I won't let her derail us" about it.   I feel like TPTB think they've constructed the best thinking ladies chick magnet ever in Charles : handsome, successful, smart, well-read, well-dressed (for a certain style), a little uptight, tragic backstory (abandoned by wife, left alone to raise his daughters the best he can), single father.  But they completely missed the part about him being a little creepy hitting on his 20-something intern/employee, being wishy-washy about actually dating Liza and getting to know her as a whole person, vs an employee he can manipulate/order around, plus the whole still being married thing.  If he had taken some definitive action after his outburst about her dating the other publishing guy, I could almost get back on the Liza-Charles train, but now he's put her back in limbo (and why the heck does she stay there? ) Charles gets less and less attractive each episode.

 

So disappointed in Richard, and for Diana.  There is no way letting his adult son crash in Diana's apartment with no warning is appropriate, no way a therapist didn't see the fleshlight being left in Diana's sofa as a passive aggressive protest of Richard being with someone other than creepy son's mother.  Also, he was acting like his son was a 15-year old hot house flower, not a 20 year old young man.  And there is also no way Diana would put up with that, no matter how much she likes Richard.  

 

On the plus side, Maggie rules, as usual.  And we didn't get the usual Liza Swiss-Miss cosplay outfits (when she wears the weird flared short skirts combined with those bizzarro bun things.

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14 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

I LOVED this outfit!!! It's high key my favourite Liza outfit in all four seasons.

I'm 100% over Pauline tbh. her angles are clear and and I'm tired of her. However, I'm always down to see Liza spend time with Charles' kids. They're good tv kids, as they are not annoying and we rarely see them, and I love seeing Liza spend time with them.

I'm iffy on Clare (almost called her Kathleen thanks to Amazons Last Tycoon) I agree that she seems too perfect. But she's cute and fun and exactly Josh's type. And it was sorta sweet that Liza so flawlessly set them up like that. (clearly they've both moved on.)

I'm attracted to Charles, but I'm bored by Charles and I do not get it and I don't understand. 

I love Maggie. That is all I want to say on that plot, too. 

Totally forgot Richard existed. Didn't need that subplot at all.

Snap!!

One minute I'm like "He's so dreamy, they'd be perfect together...make it happen" - the next I'm like "WTF???!!!????...this is so weird and uncomfortable to watch I don't know where to look"  

I'm as confused by my own reaction as I am the character's choices/reactions!!

2 hours ago, msani19 said:

I'm so confused about Charles and Liza. What's he all in on? Flirting, making eyes, and not having sex with her? 

Not actually asking her out??!! lol

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18 minutes ago, Hannah Lee said:

Also, what, exactly does Charles think he has with Liza?  From his perspective, she's a 20-something editorial assistant who works for him, who he bounces ideas off professionally and personally, who he confesses his deep feelings to, intermittently makes out with, but then asks to babysit when his wife rolls back into town...and then blows off when she texts him that she needs to leave, repeatedly (first text was the pre-arranged one, but the rest?) and then is cold and standoffish when he finally shows up back home. 

Way back when, I was on board with he and Liza coming together, but the way they have painted him since their work trip/make out that derailed Josh's engagement just makes him come off as bad news and very emotionally stunted.   Also for what it's worth, both he and Liza are still married...he knows he's still married so what's he doing messing around with an employee and then acting all "I won't let her derail us" about it.   I feel like TPTB think they've constructed the best thinking ladies chick magnet ever in Charles : handsome, successful, smart, well-read, well-dressed (for a certain style), a little uptight, tragic backstory (abandoned by wife, left alone to raise his daughters the best he can), single father.  But they completely missed the part about him being a little creepy hitting on his 20-something intern/employee, being wishy-washy about actually dating Liza and getting to know her as a whole person, vs an employee he can manipulate/order around, plus the whole still being married thing.  If he had taken some definitive action after his outburst about her dating the other publishing guy, I could almost get back on the Liza-Charles train, but now he's put her back in limbo (and why the heck does she stay there? ) Charles gets less and less attractive each episode.

I've never really been on TeamCharles but this. His whole thing this episode was weird and wishy-washy and all his declarations are based on... what? I feel like maybe there was supposed to be a couple of episodes in between Charles' outburst about Jay and Pauline coming back in which Charles and Liza actually dated (or, like, even had a conversation?) but they cut them out for some reason. The current situation makes no sense. 

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