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Umbelina

Spoilers For the Hulu Show

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Someone else posted this on the media thread, but I think it fits the spoilers thread so I'm posting it here, too. 

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20127456/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-news-date-cast-spoilers/

I had to laugh at this line, from Bruce Miller, about June:  "She's ready to rise up, and ready to take some chances and use all the skills she's learned over the last three years."  Ummm... what would those skills be?  Looking out windows when she's supposed to be hiding?  Wasting time when she's supposed to be fleeing?  Antagonizing people who could get her executed with one wave of the hand? 

Also, can anyone identify the picture of with June and Aunt Lydia about 1/2 way through the article (under header #6)?  Is this a picture from season 1 or 2, or one from season 3?  I don't recognize the setting, and it looks like it could be a courthouse or a church.  But I don't know if they've shot any of season 3 yet. 

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53 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Also, can anyone identify the picture of with June and Aunt Lydia about 1/2 way through the article (under header #6)?  Is this a picture from season 1 or 2, or one from season 3?  I don't recognize the setting, and it looks like it could be a courthouse or a church.  But I don't know if they've shot any of season 3 yet. 

Initially, I thought it was the scene when Aunt Lydia and Offred meet Fred holding Holly, when Offred starts spontaneously lactating. But I don't remember there being a gaggle of handmaids in the narthex in that scene. So I may be wrong.

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@FierceCritter - you are right, that was the scene.  I just went and rewatched it.  But you're also right that it doesn't exactly match what was shown in the episode.  Where there are other handmaids out in the hallway in the beginning, they aren't shown looking through the windows.  But it is the same church, and she's wearing the same dress (with the pull away for breast feeding), so that's it.

I'm glad that was a Season 2 scene, because my thought was that was a definite sign that June was back in handmaid service, and not (as I'm hoping) hiding out with Comm. Lawrence in Season 3. 

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22 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Of all the positions for women in Gilead, and I know this will be a wildly unpopular statement, but I'd rather be in Jezebels than anyplace else.  At least they have some freedoms, and their "jobs" aren't 24-7.  The food and drink looks better too.  There would be room to negotiate as well, become a favorite of a powerful man or two, and you could be untouchable by guards there, and possibly even by other customers.

I think that the women with the best possible lives in Gilead are the econowives in decent pre-Gilead marriages. If June and Luke had not been illegally married, for example, they would live in their apartment with Hannah. Luke wouldn't have adhered to not allowing June to read, he'd have treated her mostly as a partner, they'd have worked together to do their best for Hannah. His initial 'enjoyment' of the new laws would have receded as Gilead got worse and they'd be quite worried about the future but they'd be worried together.

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3 hours ago, chaifan said:

Someone else posted this on the media thread, but I think it fits the spoilers thread so I'm posting it here, too. 

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20127456/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-news-date-cast-spoilers/

I had to laugh at this line, from Bruce Miller, about June:  "She's ready to rise up, and ready to take some chances and use all the skills she's learned over the last three years."  Ummm... what would those skills be?  Looking out windows when she's supposed to be hiding?  Wasting time when she's supposed to be fleeing?  Antagonizing people who could get her executed with one wave of the hand? 

I partially agree with you, but I am reminded of endless back and forth discussions about GoT's Sansa Stark where the sides are "she's learned so much from her years as a hostage from the people around her" and "she's totally useless."

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I'm going to put this clear copy of the map in this thread, so we can talk about book spoilers (such as they are) openly.

DhtYga8UcAEC19W.jpg

You can easily blow it up and read the whole thing.

  • Dots are military bases
  • red are resistance zones
  • grey barrier zones with fighting
  • green nuclear accident zones
  • the wavy lines around them are contamination zones

The Rocky Mountains had strong resistance in the books, so?  The show mentioned strawberries from California and Oranges from Florida, so the map doesn't quite jive with that.  I originally found it through a link here:  https://www.postapocalypticmedia.com/handmaids-tale-map-gilead/

That link has other map screen shots as well as maps made from readers of the book.

Edited by Umbelina
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https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20127456/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-news-date-cast-spoilers/

Details at link.  Basic spoilers:

  1. Season 3 will be about June's fight.

  2. The show will chronicle Emily and Nicole's escape out of Gilead.

  3. Aunt Lydia's alive! (she transforms)

  4. Commander Lawrence will be back.

  5. As will Rita, of course.  (she's feisty)

  6. The 10 season nonsense

Others that we already know.

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It looks like Chicago is a military base which makes sense since they mentioned that people were still fighting there. 

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24 minutes ago, LBS said:

It looks like Chicago is a military base which makes sense since they mentioned that people were still fighting there. 

EVERY dot on the map is a military base.  It looks like rebels hold some areas around the great lakes though (red is rebel occupied territory)

That map was handed out at the season finale party apparently, this is the one on the show, slightly different.  The map above has a LOT more dots. IMG_8346.jpg

Edited by Umbelina
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I really don't understand why they left Livermore Nuke plant's meltdown/earthquake accident off the map.  That was the one I remember being specifically mentioned by Atwood in the book.  Right?

(near San Jose Ca, silicon valley)

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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20127456/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-news-date-cast-spoilers/

Details at link.  Basic spoilers:

  1. Season 3 will be about June's fight.

  2. The show will chronicle Emily and Nicole's escape out of Gilead.

  3. Aunt Lydia's alive! (she transforms)

  4. Commander Lawrence will be back.

  5. As will Rita, of course.  (she's feisty)

  6. The 10 season nonsense

Others that we already know.

Why, oh why can't the writers realize that a pre-announced 10-season run will never work?

One reason is that they writers are not that talented to keep up with the theme - which doesn't matter since they seem to believe they are, indeed, Margaret Atwood's chosen ones.

But what is going to suck is that if the show starts losing money it will get cancelled and then one of two things will happen: it gets cancelled without warning, so things are left half told, or it gets cancelled when there are too many lose ends and not enough time, so the writers will rush to give them a conclusion, and it will totally suck.

Either way, viewers lose.

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7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20127456/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-news-date-cast-spoilers/

Details at link.  Basic spoilers:

  1. Season 3 will be about June's fight.

  2. The show will chronicle Emily and Nicole's escape out of Gilead.

  3. Aunt Lydia's alive! (she transforms)

  4. Commander Lawrence will be back.

  5. As will Rita, of course.  (she's feisty)

  6. The 10 season nonsense

Others that we already know.

My first thought was like @BellyLaughter above. I hope she doesn't become worse (Lydia, that is).  I thought the show was already about June's fight. :/ 

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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-audio-book-10-questions-991282

Bumping this additional information from the "new" book ending.  I mistakenly took part of it (The Jezebels being traded like football players popularity) and thought it came from the original book.  I also remember finding a spoiler from that (someplace, can't find it now) about contests between various Jezebel clubs in different districts of Gilead (like Boston and some other cities.)

If anyone remembers or finds that link, or a better one than this, please post it!  TIA

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3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-audio-book-10-questions-991282

Bumping this additional information from the "new" book ending.  I mistakenly took part of it (The Jezebels being traded like football players popularity) and thought it came from the original book.  I also remember finding a spoiler from that (someplace, can't find it now) about contests between various Jezebel clubs in different districts of Gilead (like Boston and some other cities.)

If anyone remembers or finds that link, or a better one than this, please post it!  TIA

Ha. I am such an idiot. I have this audiobook - it was literally my first foray into audiobooks and I got it specifically to get revved up for the show (yeah, I’m a total geek) - and I fell asleep when I was near the end. So the next day I just picked up the book-book instead because I was really tired of being read to and I like words on paper. (No offense to Claire Danes who did a great job.) I had no idea there were extra goodies. Now I’m gonna have to give it another listen. :) Doh! 

Edited by Stiggs

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3 hours ago, Stiggs said:

Ha. I am such an idiot. I have this audiobook - it was literally my first foray into audiobooks and I got it specifically to get revved up for the show (yeah, I’m a total geek) - and I fell asleep when I was near the end. So the next day I just picked up the book-book instead because I was really tired of being read to and I like words on paper. (No offense to Claire Danes who did a great job.) I had no idea there were extra goodies. Now I’m gonna have to give it another listen. :) Doh! 

They are at the end!  Please, please please transcribed them for us?  Or do a better synopsis!

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11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They are at the end!  Please, please please transcribed them for us?  Or do a better synopsis!

That can be my evening assignment! :) 

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On 7/15/2018 at 7:57 AM, Stiggs said:

That can be my evening assignment! :) 

Don't think I've ever quoted myself before, heh. 

Okay, I don't know what magical version these folks have of the audiobook, but mine had no extra anything. It was the new version with Claire Danes that they released before the show started — so I dunno. I was way disappointed and yelled at Alexa. (We have a complicated relationship.) So very sorry! :( Major bummer. I assumed I had the version they were talking about, but mine ends with "Are there any questions?" and goes right to thanks for enjoying the book. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 6:23 PM, alexvillage said:

Why, oh why can't the writers realize that a pre-announced 10-season run will never work?

One reason is that they writers are not that talented to keep up with the theme - which doesn't matter since they seem to believe they are, indeed, Margaret Atwood's chosen ones.

But what is going to suck is that if the show starts losing money it will get cancelled and then one of two things will happen: it gets cancelled without warning, so things are left half told, or it gets cancelled when there are too many lose ends and not enough time, so the writers will rush to give them a conclusion, and it will totally suck.

Either way, viewers lose.

Ten seasons is ridiculous unless they are going to concretely move the story forward and do things that make, you know, narrative sense, which they're actively not doing at this point. I mean, I know no one wants to be unemployed, but I also know that stories have endings. Kill a major character. Show the fall of Gilead and the aftermath - what does it look like to build a country from scratch once it has fallen? And you're right, ten seasons is very ambitious and if the show fails before then and is unceremoniously yanked, it leaves a lot of story left untold - for no reason, because you could absolutely tell this story well in four, five, six seasons.

(If I'm Rita, I'm clocking June dead in the eye if/when I see her next.)

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6 hours ago, Stiggs said:

Don't think I've ever quoted myself before, heh. 

Okay, I don't know what magical version these folks have of the audiobook, but mine had no extra anything. It was the new version with Claire Danes that they released before the show started — so I dunno. I was way disappointed and yelled at Alexa. (We have a complicated relationship.) So very sorry! :( Major bummer. I assumed I had the version they were talking about, but mine ends with "Are there any questions?" and goes right to thanks for enjoying the book. 

WHAT?

The Claire Danes version is supposed to have the additional 10 questions and answers.  You didn't?

ETA, these:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-audio-book-10-questions-991282

Edited by Umbelina · Reason: added stuff

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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

WHAT?

The Claire Danes version is supposed to have the additional 10 questions and answers.  You didn't?

ETA, these:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-audio-book-10-questions-991282

I KNOW! I feel dejected! I at first assumed that I wasn't finding it — like it was going to be hidden in the middle of chapter 5 or something — but after trying the book on literally every device I have to play it on...yeah, no. It just ends. I want a refund or an upgrade? I legit may call someone, lol. I want those 10 questions!

It did give me a chance to again appreciate how great Clarie Danes did as a narrator. I'm not the biggest fan of fiction audiobooks — I never know what author/narrator is going to work for me. (Except Elmore Leonard. All of his are like, designed for audiobooks.) But Clarie Danes sounded just right, to the point that when the show started I knew I was looking at Elizabeth Moss but I was still hearing Claire Danes. :)  

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55 minutes ago, Stiggs said:

I KNOW! I feel dejected! I at first assumed that I wasn't finding it — like it was going to be hidden in the middle of chapter 5 or something — but after trying the book on literally every device I have to play it on...yeah, no. It just ends. I want a refund or an upgrade? I legit may call someone, lol. I want those 10 questions!

It did give me a chance to again appreciate how great Clarie Danes did as a narrator. I'm not the biggest fan of fiction audiobooks — I never know what author/narrator is going to work for me. (Except Elmore Leonard. All of his are like, designed for audiobooks.) But Clarie Danes sounded just right, to the point that when the show started I knew I was looking at Elizabeth Moss but I was still hearing Claire Danes. :)  

Now I'm imagining Claire Danes in the role, complete with that incredible quivering chin...

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On 7/13/2018 at 4:43 PM, Umbelina said:

I'm going to put this clear copy of the map in this thread, so we can talk about book spoilers (such as they are) openly.

DhtYga8UcAEC19W.jpg

So there's a resistance zone smack in the middle of New England, not far from Boston? It seems like that resistance zone would be an immediate threat to the New Gilead District and the commanders would focus all their energies on trying to destroy it, no? When Nick asked to be sent to "the front" - to avoid having sex with Eden - it sounded like that was supposed to be far away, not in the immediate vicinity. 

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Also, it looks as if the possibility for escape is much closer than Canada!

Emily and Holly Nichole might end up with the freedom fighters.  Also, it looks like part of it is in Maine, and that could include the cabin where June writes her tales.

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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Also, it looks as if the possibility for escape is much closer than Canada!

Emily and Holly Nichole might end up with the freedom fighters.  Also, it looks like part of it is in Maine, and that could include the cabin where June writes her tales.

This just made me think (and I am probably incredibly slow for not thinking of this sooner) that nobody says that June herself has to be in that cabin in order for the tapes to end up in that cabin. If, for example, she recorded them at the Boston Globe, she could have kept them hidden and given them to Emily (similar to how the letters were hidden and given to Nick to smuggle out).

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Kind of a general comment so I'll put it here...

I would gladly forgo the whole "cabin in Maine" part if some of the other crap would get settled. I could care less where June records her story or even IF she records it at all. The book was told as a piece of history, as a flashback; I am fine with the show being told in present day, "real", time. June never makes it out of Gilead and is killed there? Eh, okay. It would sure beat all the Gilligan Island "escapes." June makes it to Canada and later to England or someplace else? Fine with that, too. June finds herself in rebel-occupied or even Gilead-occupied Maine and tells her tale? Whatever. It was a part of the book because the book needed a kind of narrative plot device. The show, since it's told as it unfolds, doesn't need such a thing. 

I am a big fan of movie and television show adaptations being able to stand on their own. I HATE it when I have to have read the book to "get" anything, even if I was a fan of the book. (Big fan of the book HEARTS IN ATLANTIS and the novella inside, "Low Men in Yellow Coats", but I'm still fuming over the movie version 15 years later. I would have been totally lost if not for the book.) I am of firm mind that the visual adaptation should NOT be a supplement to the written material-as a different medium of entertainment, I want it to have its own legs. (With that being said, while I am find with adjustments here and there, I also don't like versions that vary wildly from the source material. If your're going to change most of it, just write a new story.) I literally JUST finished reading SHARP OBJECTS (like, 30 minutes ago) and I am seeing a huge difference between the miniseries and THT. SO is only on episode 2 so it may go downhill from here, but so far I am enjoying it much more than THT S2. Gillian Flynn wrote the screenplay so maybe that helped. 

I might sit the rest of THT out until the show is over so that I can just binge it all at once. Or else I'm going to try to find an Emmy screener that I can schmooze so that I can get all the spoilers from the get go. 

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This was an interesting thing about Comdr. Lawrence. I can see how he would intellectually design the economy, and even come up with the idea of the Colonies, without thinking through the ramifications of it actually becoming REAL. (We also don't know which parts were his ideas. For all we know at this point, the Colonies weren't meant to be a form of punishment.)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-season-2-finale-explained-bruce-miller-previews-season-3-1126208?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR Breaking News_now_2018-07-11 09:45:34_jkonerman&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews

Quote

To answer the end first, we can certainly expect to see more of him in season three. Bradley came on for the last two episodes, and we always had plans of building that character out. Having a different kind of Commander than Fred [Joseph Fiennes] ... I mean, Fred has a lot of power and he has weaknesses and strengths, but Commander Lawrence has such a different set of rules. He's a much more venerable figure in Gilead. He was one of the founders of Gilead, like Fred was, but more of an intellectual founder of Gilead. He designed the economy of Gilead. So, what happens when an academic who's doing think pieces on the computer screen and simulations, and someone says, "Hey, that's a good idea. Let's put it in practice." What happens then?

He's a character that was modeled after some of the academics in Germany [during World War II], who had come up with a lot of the plans and did calculations, and came up with the theories that ended up informing both the war and the Holocaust and the kind of Nazi racial policy. But, a lot of those people were shocked by what would happen if you brought these things to life to the Nth degree. It was not what they intended. It was twisted. So, how responsible do you feel for the atomic bomb, and the damage it causes, when you were a guy who helped do the calculations? For Lawrence, he feels like an architect of a system that in a lot of ways broke his wife, and [that] makes him feel sick to his stomach.

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2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

This was an interesting thing about Comdr. Lawrence. I can see how he would intellectually design the economy, and even come up with the idea of the Colonies, without thinking through the ramifications of it actually becoming REAL. (We also don't know which parts were his ideas. For all we know at this point, the Colonies weren't meant to be a form of punishment.)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-season-2-finale-explained-bruce-miller-previews-season-3-1126208?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR Breaking News_now_2018-07-11 09:45:34_jkonerman&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews

That's what I suspected regarding Lawrence. I am looking forward to seeing more of him next season

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On 7/19/2018 at 6:10 AM, mamadrama said:

He's a character that was modeled after some of the academics in Germany [during World War II], who had come up with a lot of the plans and did calculations, and came up with the theories that ended up informing both the war and the Holocaust and the kind of Nazi racial policy. But, a lot of those people were shocked by what would happen if you brought these things to life to the Nth degree. It was not what they intended. It was twisted. So, how responsible do you feel for the atomic bomb, and the damage it causes, when you were a guy who helped do the calculations? For Lawrence, he feels like an architect of a system that in a lot of ways broke his wife, and [that] makes him feel sick to his stomach.

This actually makes sense to me from what we saw of the character.  If you've ever hung around with intellectuals or academics, inevitably some conversations turn to all sorts of things often just as hypotheticals or playing devil's advocate.  Usually it's a relatively harmless game of "what if" as most would never imagine those ideas being put into practice or weaponized.  

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On 7/30/2018 at 6:19 PM, nodorothyparker said:

This actually makes sense to me from what we saw of the character.  If you've ever hung around with intellectuals or academics, inevitably some conversations turn to all sorts of things often just as hypotheticals or playing devil's advocate.  Usually it's a relatively harmless game of "what if" as most would never imagine those ideas being put into practice or weaponized.  

It made sense to me as well. All we know is that he "came up with the Colonies." We have no idea how that came about. Was it a hypothetical? Was he coerced? Did the reality differ wildly from his original idea? Or was he an evil dude who's just as bad as the rest of them and ought to hang on the wall? We just don't know yet, but I like him. To me, his questioning of Emily was bluntness coupled with social awkwardness. The fact that he hides a crazy wife and helped two handmaids and a baby escape allows me to give side eye to some of the other things. 

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To those wondering whether Serena is actually barren or not – Yvonne posted this today on Instagram. I know it’s no guarantee but I definitely took notice of the caption. 

0EB5C36E-101D-4EAF-9326-9B15E250277E.jpeg

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So they are filming already?

Lot's of women have hidden their real-life pregnancies on TV shows though, Hollywood is good at that now.  Anna Paquin on True Blood, January Jones on Mad Men, Betsy Brandt on Breaking Bad, Keri Russell on The Americans, are just a few recent ones that come to mind.

I still love the idea that Serena gets sent to Jezebels and becomes pregnant there though.  Final proof that it's Fred's issue and not her's, and she would finally get a child (that would probably be taken from her and given to a "Wife" if she doesn't escape.)

Edited by Umbelina
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1 hour ago, LittleRed84 said:

To those wondering whether Serena is actually barren or not – Yvonne posted this today on Instagram. I know it’s no guarantee but I definitely took notice of the caption. 

0EB5C36E-101D-4EAF-9326-9B15E250277E.jpeg

If you watch the last episode you will notice that she was filmed so you did not see her from the side, had things in front of her or was filmed from the waist up...seems the Commander's little Guardians did their job, lol.  

I am sure when Yvonne is ready to deliver she will not drive to an abandoned house and give birth alone by the fire.

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On 8/2/2018 at 12:37 PM, Umbelina said:

So they are filming already?

Lot's of women have hidden their real-life pregnancies on TV shows though, Hollywood is good at that now.  Anna Paquin on True Blood, January Jones on Mad Men, Betsy Brandt on Breaking Bad, Keri Russell on The Americans, are just a few recent ones that come to mind.

I still love the idea that Serena gets sent to Jezebels and becomes pregnant there though.  Final proof that it's Fred's issue and not her's, and she would finally get a child (that would probably be taken from her and given to a "Wife" if she doesn't escape.)

I don't think they started filming yet- she was pregnant while filming half of the 2nd season. 

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Wow - looks like Season 3 is going in a different direction with Serena.

Spoiler

image.png.152e97efc3b6a2cb841ed103bbacd9f2.png

Just kidding!  It's from Chuck but I just saw that episode yesterday and started cracking up thinking of Serena going all Sarah Walker on Fred.

 
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Putting here because while not super spoilery, this does confirm that the shot of the handmaids before the modified Washington Monument in the Super Bowl trailer was not a fluke.  They've had hundreds of handmaid extras shooting on the National Mall today, with Commander Fred, June, and Serena filming at the Lincoln Memorial.

“The Handmaid’s Tale” Is Filming on the National Mall and the Photos are Kinda Intense

Screenshot_20190215-105848_Samsung Internet.jpg

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