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ApathyMonger

S10.E01: The Pilot

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Another brilliant episode from Steven Moffat. Liked Bill, liked Nardole, loved Twelve, loved the return of the Movellans being as crap as they were in Destiny, and their appearance also implies that War of the Daleks is non canonical, which is just Christmas with jam on! Also, top marks for Bill thinking the TARDIS is a knockthrough - that's an easier conclusion to jump to that 'dimensional transcendentalism' stuff. I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the season, let's just hope Simms isn't as gash as he was in RTD's stuff. But without the soapdodger to bounce off, he's got to be better, right?

The only potential downside is the picture of Susan carrying the nasty implication that we might need to know her face for the future, but CAF can't be getting back on primetime, surely?

Edited by HauntedBathroom
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5 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Could Susan also be River's granddaughter?

That would be pretty unlikely. Susan travelled with the first doctor. They'd have to arrange some extremely unwieldy plot devices to make her River's granddaughter without the Doctor knowing who River even was for hundreds of years. 

Edited by Hiveminder
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1 hour ago, HauntedBathroom said:

The only potential downside is the picture of Susan carrying the nasty implication that we might need to know her face for the future, but CAF can't be getting back on primetime, surely?

Why would that be nasty? Personally, I would love to see her. ( Note,  I'm American and have never seen her in anything that wasn't Who related, so if there's "stuff" I don't know about it.)

I'm sure that the implication has always been that Susan was from Gallifrey, so I don't believe she's related to River.

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That was a pretty good episode, I liked Bill way back in the trailer and this episode solidified my like. (than again I liked all the nuwho companions-, well.. I grew to dislike Rose from s-2 onward, she just coming backing like a damn virus).

I kind of enjoyed Nardole in this one, small doses that's how he goes. And I think we got a hint into how nardole has a body again, he's partly a machine. Watch in the beginning of the episode, there's a definite machinery noise when he moves his arm, and a small piece a screw (or is it a bulb, i'm not sure of the name in english) falls off of him.

I loved the pictures of Susan and River on his desk.

I think Bill is from our time, while she seemed to dress in an almost light-punk 80's/90's sort of way (which fyi the fashion for many youngsters these days) she did have a cell phone- which she used to call her foster mom. About her not being a student, I could be wrong, but I really think that the main reason for Bill not being in college is lack of funds.

Not sure how college works in the UK, are there scholarships and loans available for those who can't afford college (especially the private one) or does it not matter and prices are much lower for uk citizens due to them being subsidized by the gov?- do any UK citizens here know to answer?

 

Also. Did the doctor said, or alluded, to the fact that he made a promise not to take on companions again? he says something along the lines of "but I promised" before he changes his mind and lets bill into the tardis (I think it was near the end of the episode)

I wonder what's in the vault and what's the doctor is waiting for to happen that he felt the need to spend so many decades.

Overall very good premier episode, could be worse.

Edited by foreverevolving
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Likes: Bill, in spite of the Hey, look at me, I just happen to be a lesbian! introduction; a mystery to follow up on with whatever/whoever it is behind the locked door in the basement which the Doctor doesn't want take too much notice of who's outside said door; Movellans!

Dislikes: another of Moffet's way cool ideas that begins to fall apart the moment you begin to think about it - e.g. If the very engine oil equivalent of some alien craft is able to do all that without any other mechanism or power source etc., why should I believe such a craft would have left scorch marks; the Doctor says he's going to lead the puddle through some incredible, fantastically powerful fire or somesuch to try and deal with it. I thought he was going to dive the TARDIS through a supernova, a hypernova, or perhaps as close as he dared go to the Big Bang itself, but, no, he found some corridors to run through in order to find some passing Dalek; Not Enough Movellans!; the girl with the throwaway star eye. I kept expecting there to be something...more... about her and her star eye.

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13 minutes ago, foreverevolving said:

Not sure how college works in the UK, are there scholarships and loans available for those who can't afford college (especially the private one) or does it not matter and prices are much lower for uk citizens due to them being subsidized by the gov?- do any UK citizens here know to answer?

There certainly are loans available (the Student Loans Company set up shortly before I went to University, which provides government subsidised loans) - however, even though the loan terms are reasonable (lower than any bank would offer) a degree still entails taking on thousands in debt and many aren't prepared to do that (particularly as the employment advantage from gaining a degree has declined considerably).

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3 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

Dislikes: another of Moffet's way cool ideas that begins to fall apart the moment you begin to think about it - e.g. If the very engine oil equivalent of some alien craft is able to do all that without any other mechanism or power source etc., why should I believe such a craft would have left scorch marks

I was thinking the same thing. I found it odd that the castoff of some random spaceship turned into an unstoppable entity capable of traveling through time and space nearly as fast as the TARDIS. If they had that, what would they need the rest of the ship for? It was inexplicably powerful for just being...part of something.

6 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

the Doctor says he's going to lead the puddle through some incredible, fantastically powerful fire or somesuch to try and deal with it. I thought he was going to dive the TARDIS through a supernova, a hypernova, or perhaps as close as he dared go to the Big Bang itself, but, no, he found some corridors to run through in order to find some passing Dalek

This was also odd. I know the Daleks are tough, but is one of them really the strongest weapon he could think of to test on the entity?

7 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

the girl with the throwaway star eye. I kept expecting there to be something...more... about her and her star eye.

I would like to think this is going to come back or prove to be important later, but I'm pretty sure Moffat just thought it was cool.

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35 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I was thinking the same thing. I found it odd that the castoff of some random spaceship turned into an unstoppable entity capable of traveling through time and space nearly as fast as the TARDIS. If they had that, what would they need the rest of the ship for? It was inexplicably powerful for just being...part of something.

It did seem pretty powerful for engine oil, but presumably the aliens using it in their spacecraft don't want to have to sacrifice someone to be the 'pilot' every time they want to go somewhere, and who knows what would happen to the passengers if they used just the engine oil to travel instead of using it to help power a ship. 

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6 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

It did seem pretty powerful for engine oil, but presumably the aliens using it in their spacecraft don't want to have to sacrifice someone to be the 'pilot' every time they want to go somewhere, and who knows what would happen to the passengers if they used just the engine oil to travel instead of using it to help power a ship. 

A good point, but it kind of begs another question. Why and how would they leave something so powerful and valuable behind? I suppose the scorch marks could indicate a ship had crashed there and the oil was all that remained. Or, alternatively, it was a bad (flawed) batch so they dumped it?

Edited by KirkB

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I loved it! So happy to have the Doctor back! I love Nardole, but was sad to realize he's a robot.  (Although I guess that makes more sense, than being resurrected). I love Bill, too, and kind of hope they flesh out the relationship with her foster mom. Loved that the Doctor went back in time to get pictures of her mother for Bill, if indeed that is what happened. 

I know it's not popular here, but I even enjoyed hearing Clara's theme again. Looking forward to the next episode. 

Edited to add: if I'm ever in my house with the shower running and I know no one I live with is home, I'm out of there. No way do I try to find out who's in there. No way!!!!! 

Edited by cardigirl
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5 hours ago, smorbie said:

AFIK, River and Susan are the only ones he is related to.

I thought River Song was Melody Pond, the daughter of Amy & Rory, conceived in the Tardis and the wife of the Dr (who wouldn't have had a photo of his other two wives Cleopatra and Elizabeth I). How is he related to Susan? Or is she the mother of the mother of the Dr's granddaughter in the David Tennant episode with his (future) wife Georgia Moffett?

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3 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

I thought River Song was Melody Pond, the daughter of Amy & Rory, conceived in the Tardis and the wife of the Dr (who wouldn't have had a photo of his other two wives Cleopatra and Elizabeth I). How is he related to Susan? Or is she the mother of the mother of the Dr's granddaughter in the David Tennant episode with his (future) wife Georgia Moffett?

Susan is the Doctor's granddaughter, that's how they are related. She was his very first companion, way back when the show began, and has no connection to River whatsoever. River isn't related to him, other than by a marriage that took place in a timeline that never happened.

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1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I loved it! So happy to have the Doctor back! I love Nardole, but was sad to realize he's a robot.  (Although I guess that makes more sense, than being resurrected). I love Bill, too, and kind of hope they flesh out the relationship with her foster mom. Loved that the Doctor went back in time to get pictures of her mother for Bill, if indeed that is what happened. 

I know it's not popular here, but I even enjoyed hearing Clara's theme again. Looking forward to the next episode. 

Edited to add: if I'm ever in my house with the shower running and I know no one I live with is home, I'm out of there. No way do I try to find out who's in there. No way!!!!! 

I was a little disappointed with that scene as well! I've seen better "B" movies using the same clips! Water running, shadows, and odd noises wouldn't have to peak my response to getting out! Something's wrong with this girl to think a pointy umbrella would be enough to protect her from anything! ;-(

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1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Susan is the Doctor's granddaughter, that's how they are related. She was his very first companion, way back when the show began, and has no connection to River whatsoever. River isn't related to him, other than by a marriage that took place in a timeline that never happened.

Of course i suppose this finally means that we will meet Susan's grandmother.  Wonder what they were like as parents.

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12 hours ago, smorbie said:

The thing about Clara is....I hate her.  I can't imagine why she was around for so long and managed to take over the show the way she did.  The only thing I can think of is maybe she was sleeping with someone.

I hated her as well. The only things I could figure were - they just loved her on the set; Moffat was in love with her and didn't want her to leave; It was a fuck you to the people who hated her and wanted her to leave. Mostly, I think the episodes where they teased that she was leaving and then she didn't were the actual FUs to the people who hated her. I was so tired of her by the end that I won't even watch anything else she's in. I might have watched Victoria if they had chosen a different actress. She could have been sleeping with someone. Bitsie Tulloch was. It was probably why we had to keep dealing with her on Grimm. 

I was kind of bored with this episode. I'm not as fascinated with Bill as the rest of you seem to be. I thought it was a funny story about how she made someone fat because of chips though. I can barely understand her when she talks. I agree though. The best thing about Bill is, she isn't Clara. I liked Nardole, but he seems really toned down. Not much of a bad guy either. I suppose Bill had to be eased in somehow, even though she had to see the Dalek right off the bat. 

I knew if I came to this thread I could find out who the people on his desk were. I recognized River. I didn't see enough of the first Doctor to recognize Susan. 

This is also Moffats last go round as show runner. I think he mucked things up plenty. I'm not sure what he's going to do now as a lame-duck show runner. 

Edited by Commando Cody
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20 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Any worries I might have had about liking Bill were dispelled; I think I liked her better upon introduction than anyone since Martha. The slow build with her was nice, and involved subtlety and patience that I'm quite frankly surprised to see coming from Moffat's pen. I REALLY like that she's individual and interesting, but not some special snowflake who's the designated Best Companion Ever. Capaldi was his usual excellent self, and even Nardole was toned down enough not to annoy.

The mystery developed nicely, and it was a welcome change to not have the fate of the world or universe in the balance.

Yeah it's a relief to have a companion who the Doctor is interested in because she's observant and has some curiosity about the universe rather than because she's a puzzle/part of some grand overarching scheme/the most special person in all worlds.

Quote

Not sure how college works in the UK, are there scholarships and loans available for those who can't afford college (especially the private one) or does it not matter and prices are much lower for uk citizens due to them being subsidized by the gov?- do any UK citizens here know to answer?

There are loans for everybody and you can also have means tested grants and loans if you are from a low-income family so I took Bill not being a proper student at the uni as a sign of a lack of confidence or encouragement from her foster mum. Also growing up in a fairly low-income area myself, I knew a lot of kids who were academic enough to do A Levels and apply to uni but were pushed towards going straight into work. Although as things have worked out, a lot of the people who did that are financially better off than the people who went to university.

Edited by Beatriceblake
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6 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

A promising start to the season - maybe I'll actually make it all the way through without giving up! It'd be nice to get at least one good season with Capaldi before he leaves.

It has been quite some times since I've made it through a full season of this show, but I finally have hope. I love Capaldi as the doctor and am so happy to finally be able to enjoy him fully without having to groan through Clara's takeover of the show. And I already love Bill. I love that she is curious and excited and into sci-fi. She seems like she's going to be fun.

What I hate is that Donna didn't come up during the almost memory sweep scene because I remember how devastated the Doctor was when Donna begged him not to do it. He had to then to save her life. I think it would have been a nice call back for him to remember how that felt.

My only concern is that Moffatt is still there and has the innate ability to destroy everything I like about this show.

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16 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

What I hate is that Donna didn't come up during the almost memory sweep scene because I remember how devastated the Doctor was when Donna begged him not to do it. He had to then to save her life. I think it would have been a nice call back for him to remember how that felt.

That didn't bother me so much because I was never a big fan of Donna's.  But I do wonder if the reason it played the way it did was that the Doctor's remembering is going to be an ongoing thing and somehow his remembering Clara is going to trigger something because....its Moffat.

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2 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I hated her as well. The only things I could figure were - they just loved her on the set; Moffat was in love with her and didn't want her to leave; It was a fuck you to the people who hated her and wanted her to leave. Mostly, I think the episodes where they teased that she was leaving and then she didn't were the actual FUs to the people who hated her. I was so tired of her by the end that I won't even watch anything else she's in. I might have watched Victoria if they had chosen a different actress. She could have been sleeping with someone. Bitsie Tulloch was. It was probably why we had to keep dealing with her on Grimm. 

I was kind of bored with this episode. I'm not as fascinated with Bill as the rest of you seem to be. I thought it was a funny story about how she made someone fat because of chips though. I can barely understand her when she talks. I agree though. The best thing about Bill is, she isn't Clara. I liked Nardole, but he seems really toned down. Not much of a bad guy either. I suppose Bill had to be eased in somehow, even though she had to see the Dalek right off the bat. 

I knew if I came to this thread I could find out who the people on his desk were. I recognized River. I didn't see enough of the first Doctor to recognize Susan. 

This is also Moffats last go round as show runner. I think he mucked things up plenty. I'm not sure what he's going to do now as a lame-duck show runner. 

I actually found Clara more tolerable in the later episodes.  Still hated her, though.

3 hours ago, DJG1122 said:

I thought River Song was Melody Pond, the daughter of Amy & Rory, conceived in the Tardis and the wife of the Dr (who wouldn't have had a photo of his other two wives Cleopatra and Elizabeth I). How is he related to Susan? Or is she the mother of the mother of the Dr's granddaughter in the David Tennant episode with his (future) wife Georgia Moffett?

She's his granddaughter.  I've never seen her, but I think she was in the show with the first doctor.

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I found Clara tolerable in Face the Raven, where she had to pay the piper for her own cocky stupidity and actually managed to muster up some dignity and pathos for once in reaction (as well as giving Capaldi the support for some of his best acting on the show). Of course they promptly ruined it by bringing her back and giving her her own TARDIS.

8 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

...let's just hope Simms isn't as gash as he was in RTD's stuff. But without the soapdodger to bounce off, he's got to be better, right?

Oh thank God, I'm not the only person in the world who can't stand Simm as the Master! It was such a slap in the face to be teased with the prospect of Derek Jacobi as the Doctor's nemesis, only to have him replaced by a capering nitwit in the interest of making him an analog of the young, excitable Doctor.

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One other thing I liked was that Bill figured out the answer and not in some super duper companion way.  It was just her attentiveness to what had been said that answered the question.

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The Doctor must be letting River "go" on purpose. There's no reason River can't return, it just has to be a version pre-singing towers.

And I always thought the Time Lady Wilf talked to was Susan. If only because 10 glanced at Donna when Wilf asked who she was.

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5 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

Of course i suppose this finally means that we will meet Susan's grandmother.  Wonder what they were like as parents.

I don't think the Doctor choosing to put a photo of Susan on display has to mean anything other than he is choosing to remember his past, rather than always locking it away and keeping his eyes forward, which has always been his habit. I doubt we'll meet Susan's grandmother - in fact, I really, really hope we don't. Moffat has trodden over enough of the show's history already. Sometimes the past is best left unexplored.

Also, don't listen to anyone who claims Carole Ann Ford was a bad actress. She was just fine - in fact, excellent when she was allowed to be. Acting has fashions and trends like anything else, and Carole acted Susan in the style of the 60s, as you'd expect. The writing for the character wasn't great, but she was designed to fulfill a very specific plot requirement (to be the 'child', whose needs provided the first common ground for the Doctor and his reluctant human companions). Writing styles have changed since then, also. Susan was of her time, that's all.

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1 hour ago, Locutus said:

The Doctor must be letting River "go" on purpose. There's no reason River can't return, it just has to be a version pre-singing towers.

And I always thought the Time Lady Wilf talked to was Susan. If only because 10 glanced at Donna when Wilf asked who she was.

Since River had no idea there were more doctors post 11 before THORS, she will have to be clueless as to who any Doctor, from 12 on, is. If she is to come back I think a version that is either from during the Darillium time or dead post library version. Anything earlier will require the doctor to memory wipe her.

Edited by foreverevolving

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I take comfort that if CAF does come back for a visit,  there would be no mucking around or retconning of her character. There is no way in hell she would agree to come back if there was even a hint of altering anything about Susan. She loved Bill too much to let that happen.  She nearly refused to be in The Five Doctors because JNT wanted her to say Doctor instead of grandfather. She won out. This would be the same. 

 

Back on topic, great episode. And I've struggled with a lot of SM stuff as of late.  But this was a return to form. 

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I have mixed feelings on the episode. In general I did find it incredibly predictable, which meant some of the pacing felt a bit off for me. I liked the beginning and the introduction of Bill, but I think I'd have preferred the episode if it was a bit more focused on Bill and her character rather than the MOTW (which I thought to be quite weak). I'm not sure how I feel about Bill, it could go either way really. She could turn into the typical Moffat archetype or (hopefully) she  could settle in and we could learn a bit more about her.

That said, I did like how the story line was fairly simple and not convoluted (except for the engine oil travelling through time and space thing). 

I hate River Song, so I hate any mentions of her and seeing her photograph just made me roll my eyes. 

I'm looking forward to the rest of the series though, safe in the comfort that if I don't like anything, Moffat will soon be gone. 

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18 hours ago, yoyo926 said:

15 Minutes in this episode was already better than the last couple of years. I hated Clara and as a result I stopped really paying attention for the most part and never got to know Capaldi until the the husbands of River Song. I tried to go back and watch some of his older episodes and if I fast forward the Clara parts he is quite good but the pairing never worked in my opinion. It's a shame this is his last year because I think with a new companion he is finally able to really get the attention he deserves. I don't think the TPTB gave him a chance and revolved the show around Clara because they thought it would keep younger viewers. I hope this premier indicates this will be a good season. Bill seem interesting and not a flat character that we go with Clara. I haven't always liked every companion but at least I felt something love or hate. With Clara I felt  nothing at all. Moffet seemed to use her as a plot point just to showcase his over the top story arcs. 

Hatred.  That's what I felt.  Sheer unadulterated hatred.  She took over the show.  It was the Clara show with the poor doctor as a sidekick.  No wonder River's code name for him was Damsel in Distress.  Clara emasculated him.  For some stupid reason the man who had faced down countless horrors over the years was a fraidy cat unless she held his hand.  Poor Smith.  Poor Capaldi.  They deserved better.

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13 hours ago, Llywela said:

Susan is the Doctor's granddaughter, that's how they are related. She was his very first companion, way back when the show began, and has no connection to River whatsoever. River isn't related to him, other than by a marriage that took place in a timeline that never happened.

It did happen.  The Doctor carries the truth of all the time lines.

4 hours ago, foreverevolving said:

Since River had no idea there were more doctors post 11 before THORS, she will have to be clueless as to who any Doctor, from 12 on, is. If she is to come back I think a version that is either from during the Darillium time or dead post library version. Anything earlier will require the doctor to memory wipe her.

I hope they don't bring her back.  I loved her and the star-crossed lover's story.  But the story, I think, is done.

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Just because River Song (daughter of Rory & Amy Pond) wasn't thought of as being Susan's grandmother when Susan was originally written doesn't mean she couldn't be. There'd need to be some Timey-Wimeyness involved, but you know how much the Grand Moff loves that.

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48 minutes ago, John Potts said:

Just because River Song (daughter of Rory & Amy Pond) wasn't thought of as being Susan's grandmother when Susan was originally written doesn't mean she couldn't be. There'd need to be some Timey-Wimeyness involved, but you know how much the Grand Moff loves that.

I don't see why she needs to be. The Doctor had children with someone (not River or anyone else we've met) before he stole the Tardis. I don't understand why it has to be any more complicated than that. 

They wouldn't just have to do some time wimey stuff. They'd have to explain why the 10th doctor didn't know who River was if the 1st Doctor knew the granddaughter he had with her. 

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If the characters have to be related, I think it's more likely that Bill might be distantly related to Susan. 

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1 hour ago, John Potts said:

Just because River Song wasn't thought of as being Susan's grandmother when Susan was originally written doesn't mean she couldn't be

43 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I don't see why she needs to be.

 

She certainly doesn't NEED to be (and I don't really WANT her to be either) - it's just I wouldn't rule out it being retconned into being the case.

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1 hour ago, John Potts said:

She certainly doesn't NEED to be (and I don't really WANT her to be either) - it's just I wouldn't rule out it being retconned into being the case.

Considering how Moffatt loves to make everything so freaking epic, I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Susan can't be special in her own right on his watch. She has to be linked to one of his special snowflakes.

I hope to god they don't go there, but given his ridiculous need for everything to be bigger than it was ever meant to be, if I were forced to put money on it, I'd go with Susan being River's granddaughter and timey wimey stuff to ignore all the hole in logic this would create.

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16 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I can barely understand her when she talks.

I had to turn on closed captioning to follow what she said. I watch a lot of BBC America and usually have no problem with the accents, but not with her.

I hadn't realized all the Clara hatred out there. I agree with much of what has been said, but I guess I over looked a lot because I found Jenna so damn hot.

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On 4/15/2017 at 6:07 PM, Lokiberry said:

The only sour note was in the scene where the Doctor was going to wipe Bill's memory, and we were "treated" to Clara's theme song. I thought we were meant to have forgotten about her.

This scene reminded me instantly of Donna Noble and her memory swipe.  I didn't even know that Clara had her own music.

Could someone explain to me how the Doctor's memories of Clara were erased?  Was it voluntary?

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4 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I don't see why she needs to be. The Doctor had children with someone (not River or anyone else we've met) before he stole the Tardis. I don't understand why it has to be any more complicated than that. 

They wouldn't just have to do some time wimey stuff. They'd have to explain why the 10th doctor didn't know who River was if the 1st Doctor knew the granddaughter he had with her. 

I actually recently read an old fanfiction which took that exact same topic and found a way around the loop hole (well sort of). simply put 11 and River had a baby but to protect her they decided to send the child back in time to when the Doctor when still young and living on Gallifrey where he raised the child and eventually said child had Susan. Yea it's a bit off cause, well gallifrey is lost during 11 time, but I reckon if she wanted the TARDIS would be able to find it, and I would imagine she would if it was to protect an innocent child and well protect the timelines.

Any way, I think the story simply illustrated the fact that: this is a time traveling show people, so stuff like that are possible.

Personally I don't object to the idea of River and the Doctor having a child together, and I think, if written correctly (and yes I do actually think Moffat is capable of doing it, but since he's leaving it won't be him), it can create an interesting storyline for future Doctors, with a way to bring back River and the ponds for a guest appearance.

Edited by foreverevolving
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I want to say: It could be as simple as returning to England in the time period when he was there as One made him think of Susan. But it's Moffat. 

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I enjoyed this episode and am so relieved to be (hopefully) done with Clara.  The Doctor was in charge and very enjoyable to watch in action.  I agree that Bill was sometimes hard to understand.  I liked the idea that The Doctor just parked himself for a long break and probably reflection.  Helped clear out that whole million years of breaking a diamond wall or whatever - all that just seemed too weird.

Re relationships - if Bill is related to anyone, I vote for Martha - she definitely has the look of Martha's mother so could be a third cousin or something.

Re memory wipes - big difference between wiping someone you've talked to for maybe two days (Bill) vs someone with whom you've traveled time and space for an entire season (Donna).  I wasn't sure about Donna at first but she really grew on me and I ended up loving her.  She humanized The Doctor and helped him face his inner demons; the scene in Pompeii where she begged him to save just one family was so significant - helped him make the impossible choice a bit easier.  (Not to mention saved Peter Capaldi.)  She strongly empathized with the Oods who saw all that she would be.  "Turn Left" showed how significant she was to everything that followed. And at the end she was the Doctor Donna who saved time (or was it space) itself.  Of course The Doctor was anguished when he knew he had to make her forget it all - and to forget the bond they'd forged.

So sure, with Bill he just wanted to cut if off at the start - no bonding, no relationship, no anguish.  But apparently it was already too late, probably because he'd had his eye on her all semester.

Also, did Bill ever get to that bathroom?

Edited by CatWarmer
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3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

This scene reminded me instantly of Donna Noble and her memory swipe.  I didn't even know that Clara had her own music.

Could someone explain to me how the Doctor's memories of Clara were erased?  Was it voluntary?

After the Doctor pulls Clara out of time the instant before her death, he decides (for some reason) that the only way to protect her from the Time Lords (who want to put her back because if she doesn't die the whole universe will be destroyed. The big meanies) is to erase her memories. Clara objects. They argue. Clara fiddles with the memory eraser thing, and changes it so that if it's used, they can't tell in advance who's memories will be erased. They use it anyway, and the Doctor's memories are wiped. He works out that he had a companion named Clara, but he doesn't remember anything about her. Clara gloats, asks Ashilder to be her companion,  and flies off with a stolen TARDIS, with a broken chameleon circuit that's stuck in the form of that diner Amy, Rory and the Doctor visited in The Impossible Astronaut.

And no, that's not fanfiction.

Edited by Lokiberry
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On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 3:27 PM, MarkHB said:

Why would that be nasty? Personally, I would love to see her. ( Note,  I'm American and have never seen her in anything that wasn't Who related, so if there's "stuff" I don't know about it.)

I'm sure that the implication has always been that Susan was from Gallifrey, so I don't believe she's related to River.

I'd love to see Susan return too.  That's been a hanging plotline for over 50 years.

Quote

As for Clara's theme returning, boo. I gave up on this show years ago because I just couldn't take Clara, so I didn't even notice that.

Much as I'm not happy with it, I strongly suspect Clara will return in some capacity when it comes time for 12 to regenerate.  Not based on spoilers or anything but I feel we haven't seen the last of her.  Not until we have a new Doctor and a new showrunner.

12's likeability has picked up since Clara has been gone.  Those two were toxic together, something I'm amazed Moffat confirmed last season in Hell Bent.

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As long as she's gone, I don't care how or why.  And if wiping his memory stopped him mooning over his specialist friend, the more the better.

It is fitting that she stole a Tardis; she stole the show (and ruined it)

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Just now, benteen said:

Much as I'm not happy with it, I strongly suspect Clara will return in some capacity when it comes time for 12 to regenerate.  Not based on spoilers or anything but I feel we haven't seen the last of her.  Not until we have a new Doctor and a new showrunner.

12's likeability has picked up since Clara has been gone.  Those two were toxic together, something I'm amazed Moffat confirmed last season in Hell Bent.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

As time wore on I found Clara less annoying, probably because I knew she would be leaving soon.  Plus, they kept putting her in danger, and I knew her character diedish, so I kept hoping at the start of each one that I would get to see her die. The and 12 were toxic, but she was toxic with 11, too.  I actually felt sorry for him.  It was like he was working as hard as he could, and OMG, he was so talented.  But, it was like dragging an anchor around.  The story line was clunky and awkward.  It felt forced and unbelievable.  I tried to make myself believe that it was just that he, Pond, Rory, and River had such chemistry.  But, the same problem occurred with 12.  

It wasn't them, it wasn't us.  It was her.

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4 hours ago, thecdn said:

I had to turn on closed captioning to follow what she said. I watch a lot of BBC America and usually have no problem with the accents, but not with her.

 

I had a hard time understanding both of them at times, but particularly her. It diminished a lot of my enjoyment of the show, which was otherwise pretty good.

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Haven't been a regular viewer since 12 took over. Nothing specific against this Doctor but when he was introduced, he didn't seem to be having any fun. Even when 10 got really emo about everything, he still had a sense of adventure. This episode really made me feel that spirit of fun again. I really like Bill and I think she has great rapport with Capaldi. I'm definitely in for a few more episodes.

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2 hours ago, CatWarmer said:

Re relationships - if Bill is related to anyone, I vote for Martha - she definitely has the look of Martha's mother so could be a third cousin or something

Mr Rat and I both think Pearl Mackie looks a lot like Alex Kingston as far as that goes.  

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2 hours ago, CatWarmer said:

Also, did Bill ever get to that bathroom?

Maybe it was like in the Simpsons:

Marge: Bart, are you wearing clean underwear?

Bart: Not any more!

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