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S01.E12: The End Of The Beginning

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1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I am suspicious of Alex.  The fact that the President went out of his way to tell Hannah and Mike that it was unnecessary to dismiss her... something is up with her.  She's trying to find out info and acts put out when she gets denied.  There has to be more to it than this.  She's probably a Russian sleeper agent like Angelina Jolie in "Salt".  That would also explain why her accent slipped in and out in the past.

Well her real name is Natasha, after all :-)  Salt is one of my favorite movies with a knockout performance by Angelina Jolie but I can't quite see Mrs. Kirkman with a similar history. 

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56 minutes ago, cali1981 said:

Salt is one of my favorite movies with a knockout performance by Angelina Jolie but I can't quite see Mrs. Kirkman with a similar history. 

Also, TWO wives in on the same conspiracy seems like a bit of a stretch, even for this show.

Edited by marinw
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16 hours ago, surfer said:

And Seth had that weird exchange with Emily when he slipped(?) and told her that his parents were immigrants, when she thought his father was an engineer. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

 

7 hours ago, TVForever said:

The show seemed to make something of that moment, but I found myself wondering why his dad couldn't be an immigrant and an engineer. 

 

4 hours ago, tallykat said:

I think the point that Emily was making when she said that Seth's father was an engineer, was that Seth was trying to be all "Imagine--the son of immigrants working in the White House..." when, while technically his parents were immigrants, they didn't enter the county with five dollars in their pockets and no command of the English language. She was saying that he was the privileged son well-educated, upper-middle-class parents who happened to have immigrated to the US, but aren't what we typically think of when we hear the word "immigrant."

I am incredibly confused by that exchange between Seth and Emily. My reaction was pretty much the same as tvforever. I also don't get why his parents couldn't have been poor immigrants who later got their education in the US and then ended up being successful, and I had no idea that "we" don't typically think that immigrants could be well-educated or upper-middle-class engineers. Most of the immigrants I know are quite well-educated, and plenty are engineers. I still don't get why it's in any way discordant that Seth's father is both an immigrant and engineer.

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14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I thought that it was Hannah that shot Lady Mac, because that would be the actual thing to do for a real FBI agent.  Just think.  You're holding a suspect at gunpoint when an unknown person directly behind you pops off a shot, killing him.  You're probably next in line, so, do you whirl around, yell in surprise, or do you pump off 2-3 rounds into the person holding the gun on you?  Personally, I would choose the latter, consequences be damned.  You gotta be alive to get fired.

The secret phone in the VP office is still there.  Hopefully someone seals off the entire office for investigation. 

Or maybe a publisher of a right wing conspiracy touting website, who just happens to have received security clearance.

I forgot about the secret phone!   Good catch

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loved loved loved this episode, now we are cooking with gas...God, I didn't realize that the Vice President's evil wife killed herself until I read a recap somewhere...Holy doo doo balls...Terrific, damn it, I love Kiefer!

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WHAT?????????????

Honestly, this show has me by the balls. The revamp worked big time. Kudos to whoever is in charge now.

I totally called that Mrs. MacLeish would shoot MacLeish instead of the other veteran (just for the shock value), but I did NOT imagine it would play out like this. I thought she'd shoot MacLeish right before he said anything incriminating, and she'd escape into the night. I did not expect her to kill him and then kill herself. My jaw literally dropped. That moment was amazing.

I, like many others, wonder exactly who is behind the conspiracy. Mrs. MacLeish explicitly said "We've pledged ourselves to a higher cause," and her actions have always made it seem like she's a true believer, not just a soldier or a pawn. She always had an eye on the big picture (for their organization), that's why she didn't hesitate to take out both her husband and herself. I got "The Americans" vibes again, and this week I'm not hesitant to make the comparison, because this episode was great.

19 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Kimble would make a good VP.

"Try hard."

Virginia Madsen is having a BLAST with this role. I'd love to see her as the VP, but maybe she's too smart to get involved that directly with Kirkman's presidency? Unless he gets to her by appealing to her emotions (lol) and tells her she's the only one he can trust. Also, I kind of ship her with Aaron now? I loved the tension between them, that's a dynamic we hadn't really explored. Also, her cleavage was deliciously distracting.

Ooh, a lover's quarrel between Kirkman and Mike! I agree Mike should have cautioned him about telling everything to his wife, but I loved how Kirkman was all sassy, saying "well you didn't seem to think so at the time, Mike". I'm always surprised to see Mike having so much screentime, by the way. I just hope he's not the mole. Oh and I love how Alex is jealous of him. She should be.

Speaking of the Kirkmans:

Hi, Kirkman kids!

Bye, Kirkman kids!

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Glad that Reed Diamond's character seems to be on the up and up (for now), and is going to help Hannah going forward.

Agreed. We can't be sure, because this show loves a twist, but I do love Reed Diamond (as do several others, apparently, which pleases me) so I'll take the win, at least for now. He does have a nice rapport with Maggie Q. They were serious about the work, but there was a bit of humor, too. Plus, Hannah has been shown to be a wildcard, she's got great instincts and she's ballsy, but she seems to work better when someone is reigning her in a little (like Malik Yoba's character, in the first part of the season). I hope we see more of that pairing. And also more of Malik Yoba, he was fantastic last night. I'm sad about his son, and I want to know what that means for the character. Will he be returning to his job? Or will he take a long break?

14 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I like Aaron/Emily and how the drama is kept low-key, no big quarrels or petty/unprofessional behavior; I feel for both of them here, too.

Same here. I liked how, as soon as Aaron "found out" Emily was only doing her job, and didn't "really" suspect him, he started flirting again, during that piano scene. But then, of course, Emily shut him down (understandably), and he looked more distant again. Subtle acting by the guy who plays Aaron. I appreciate how the show doesn't get bogged down by the romance aspect, and it stays focused on the possibility Aaron may be the mole. That said, the Aaron/Emily dynamic isn't totally sacrificed. That unspoken, wistful, "oh okay , so we're gonna pretend we didn't kiss," moment was wonderfully understated but well-conveyed by the two actors.

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I am suspicious of Alex.  The fact that the President went out of his way to tell Hannah and Mike that it was unnecessary to dismiss her... something is up with her.  She's trying to find out info and acts put out when she gets denied.  There has to be more to it than this.  She's probably a Russian sleeper agent like Angelina Jolie in "Salt".  That would also explain why her accent slipped in and out in the past.

Right? This episode made her look shady.

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I am incredibly confused by that exchange between Seth and Emily. My reaction was pretty much the same as tvforever. I also don't get why his parents couldn't have been poor immigrants who later got their education in the US and then ended up being successful, and I had no idea that "we" don't typically think that immigrants could be well-educated or upper-middle-class engineers. Most of the immigrants I know are quite well-educated, and plenty are engineers. I still don't get why it's in any way discordant that Seth's father is both an immigrant and engineer.

I don't think it was supposed to be a "surprise" or a teachable moment, the fact Seth's immigrant parents were well-off. Nor do I think it was about stereotypes. I thought Seth was trying to cheer up Emily, to restore her faith in America, so he wanted to sound like he's the embodiment of the American Dream (which he is). That's why he jokingly oversold his backstory, all "my parents were immigrants, we had nothing, but look at me now! And it's all thanks to the great US of A!". Meanwhile, Emily was like "dude, your dad was loaded." That was a playful moment, in my opinion. A joke between friends.

Overall, one of the best episodes of this show. There were plot holes (there's a convenient second copy of Hannah's stolen folder? Kidnapper Lady was able to pose as Hannah's attorney with a simple business card, and the cops blew Hannah's cover in 3 seconds? Alex was able to just waltz into a guarded hospital room without a guard stopping her and letting her know Kirkman has a meeting?) but nothing too terrible.

I hope this episode is a good indication of what's to come, in the remainder of the season.

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26 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Also, her cleavage was deliciously distracting.

Yes, yes it was. I love how she can be simultaneously alluring yet so intimidating. Kimble Hookstraten definitely proves that strong can be sexy.

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On 3/16/2017 at 7:33 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I hope this episode is a good indication of what's to come, in the remainder of the season.

Same here. 

I am so excited that this show seems to be finding it’s feet, and learning how to be a bit silly yet still be able to be a little thinky. The show’s universe is beginning to gel for me too.

The show is reminding me of season one of Fringe. That show also stumbled a bit early on and then became great. Too early to see if DS can do the same thing.

I am actually re-watching these last two episodes. Another good sign.

I am also loving how Tom is much surer of himself now. That new sense of authority is earned because we saw what a pushover he was early on. There is no way he would allow Congress to bully him into blocking all immigration now! Such nice acting from Kiefer, who can portray gravitas in any situation. 

Edited by marinw
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Finally got around to watching this and I do like how they've improved the general writing and pacing of the show (although I wasn't too happy to see the kids again.  I know, I know...they were there to see their wounded father....but I wish that the show had the foresight to spend as little time as possible on them the first half of the season.  I actually don't mind the girl in small doses, but I can't stand the boy).  But here are my questions:

1 - Why wouldn't whoever who was in charge of getting Hannah out of the prison know to tell something--anything--to the staff there, letting them know that they were not supposed to give any information on her?  Also, I'm pretty sure that's not how a lawyer walks into a federal jail to see a suspect who is implicated in the biggest crime of the moment (attempted presidential assassination).

2 - How are they going to explain the murder-suicide of the MacLeishes?  I mean, I guess they could say that the two met up in a military cemetery in the middle of the night and she shot him before killing herself because reasons....but that is still one heck of a scandal to deal with.

3 - I forget his name, but Hannah's former boss.  So...I hate seeing/hearing of harm to kids, but I have to give kudos to the show for going there...and handling it well.  That being said, I'm not sure how the boss guy was able to basically just leave a high-security federal prison to see his son's body and then just going home afterwards.  Even if he had retracted his statement, I still don't think things work in remotely that way.

4 - What happened to MacLeish's troop buddy who was wearing a wire.  The last I remember him, Hannah had gotten away by giving him a good ole' fist to the jaw, but  I can't imagine that did any real damage or incapacitated him in anyway....

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1 minute ago, OtterMommy said:

2 - How are they going to explain the murder-suicide of the MacLeishes?  I mean, I guess they could say that the two met up in a military cemetery in the middle of the night and she shot him before killing herself because reasons....but that is still one heck of a scandal to deal with.

I am trying to stay spoiler free, so that should be addressed in the next episode. I predict that the swearing-in of the next VEEP will be much more low-key. 

8 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

3 - I forget his name, but Hannah's former boss.  So...I hate seeing/hearing of harm to kids, but I have to give kudos to the show for going there...and handling it well.  That being said, I'm not sure how the boss guy was able to basically just leave a high-security federal prison to see his son's body and then just going home afterwards.  Even if he had retracted his statement, I still don't think things work in remotely that way.

POTUS has the power to issue pardons.

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Since VP MacLeish was having a clandestine meeting in the cemetery, he would have ordered his Secret Service detail not to do a security sweep of the area and to wait by the car. I would also imagine that when the order was given to move in, that would include immediately detaining his security detail.

It may have slipped by many viewers, but in a blink-and-you-miss-it moment when Hannah turned to see where the kill shot came from, MacLeish's wife was holding her gun to her chin.

If Tom needed to have his rib cage cracked in order to plug the leak and dig out the bullet fragments, no, he most certainly would not be up and around the next day, or for several days. Otherwise, maybe so. Even so, he would be on a walker at least and not a cane. I do like that he has risen to the occasion at last, serious, tactful, decisive and confident. Speaking of tact, he probably should have told his wife that keeping her out of the loop was for her safety, not from a lack of trust (OK, that, too).

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2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

that is still one heck of a scandal to deal with.

Right after a presidential assassination attempt, and only weeks after the entire government was slaughtered.  Yes, it's time to take a sabbatical in New Zealand, or somewhere far, far away!

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Definitely the best episode so far! I was on the edge of my seat for sure. They even got me with the "2nd dream fake out." And I was pretty stunned by all 3 of the deaths. 

I definitely took the "my parents were immigrants" moment to be more of a playful/lighthearted moment between friends/colleagues. But hey you never know. That scene DID make me wonder if they were perhaps hinting at a Seth/Emily romance at some point. 

I was surprised to read that so many people missed Lady McBeth/leash killing herself. It was a pretty clear moment of her pointing the gun to herself. 

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Unless they are on a ventilator, open heart patients are out of bed the next day. And yes, some go home in 3-4 days. (cardiac nurse here).

I loved this episode and was left shocked at the end! I swear, if the bad guy is Seth, I may not be able to continue watching! I cannot even guess who it is. 

There are some things that bugged me, but not enough to stop watching the show. Why oh why, in so many TV crime shows, does only one person show up in a dangerous situation. Seriously, only "90 lbs soaking wet" Hannah, all by herself? And why is Tom limping and using a cane, when he was shot in his chest? And last....when Tom was leaving his hospital room, it was daylight outside. Yet that was when the whole cemetery scene was going down, because Mike came in to tell him

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5 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I don't think it was supposed to be a "surprise" or a teachable moment, the fact Seth's immigrant parents were well-off. Nor do I think it was about stereotypes. I thought Seth was trying to cheer up Emily, to restore her faith in America, so he wanted to sound like he's the embodiment of the American Dream (which he is). That's why he jokingly oversold his backstory, all "my parents were immigrants, we had nothing, but look at me now! And it's all thanks to the great US of A!". Meanwhile, Emily was like "dude, your dad was loaded." That was a playful moment, in my opinion. A joke between friends.

Agreed, and I think the teasing banter tone was set up with the "You can't have a five minute conversation with anyone without mentioning you went to Harvard." / "Wrong. I've never said I went to Harvard. I always say I 'went to school in Cambridge.'" exchange.

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Okay, I stopped watching this show after the election; but that photo splashed up on the front page has me really curious. I get from the recap that Kirkman was shot in a previous episode and you can see in the photo that he's got medical monitors around him. But what caused him to make that OTT expression? Were they doing some sort of procedure without anaesthetic (maybe because he was afraid to let his guard down by going under, or didn't want to temporarily sign over his powers to the evil VP)? Or did he wake up from a terrible nightmare?

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5 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Or did he wake up from a terrible nightmare?

That one. He relived being shot. Then as a bonus, he went straight from that into a nightmare within the nightmare, and that's the one that woke him up screaming.

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10 hours ago, marinw said:

Also, TWO wives in on the same conspiracy seems like a bit of a stretch, even for this show.

Now you've got me wondering if maybe the wives ARE the conspiracy... There's a mysterious 21st person on the helicopter. If it was a CIA paramilitary-type the soldiers on the mission wouldn't be crapping their drawers. They'd be very matter of fact about it. Sure there was some mystery dude there, he walked like a solider, didn't offer any information and we didn't ask. But we see these types all the time. Spooks with a military background (CIA pays better). Nothing to see here.

If it was Trenchcoat Lady on the other hand... where do you even begin explaining her presence? She'd have to have some serious juice to get herself attached to a combat mission and that would freak the soldiers right out... We'll see.

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On 3/16/2017 at 2:22 AM, StevedeMena said:

The wife shot her self after shooting her husband. 

I trust Agent Mike!  ?

I also trust agent Mike. But then again I may be just hypnotized by his strong jawline, lovely teeth, I will stop there!

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A couple of random thoughts:

1. Unless she is developmentally delayed it's time the recast Penny. McKenna Grace has clearly hit a growth spurt.

2. Favourite line: “This is a cluster of epic proportions.”

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13 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Agreed, and I think the teasing banter tone was set up with the "You can't have a five minute conversation with anyone without mentioning you went to Harvard." / "Wrong. I've never said I went to Harvard. I always say I 'went to school in Cambridge.'" exchange.

If Seth went to Harvard (or Cambridge), the odds of his parents being poor immigrants is possible, but not as likely.

13 hours ago, wilnil said:

That one. He relived being shot. Then as a bonus, he went straight from that into a nightmare within the nightmare, and that's the one that woke him up screaming.

The second nightmare was the bombing of the Capitol from the first episode.

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"Hello. I'm Luke's father. Prepare to die."    Poor Luke, was it necessary for the show to do this? It means that Atwood will be so grief stricken that he'll have a hard time coping with this job. I hope he gets a chance to avenge his son. 

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11 minutes ago, Catherinewriter said:

"Hello. I'm Luke's father. Prepare to die."    Poor Luke, was it necessary for the show to do this? 

The kid probably had a growth spurt so they killed him instead of recasting.....

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3 hours ago, paigow said:

The kid probably had a growth spurt so they killed him instead of recasting.....

My guess is that the new show runner had to do some cleaning up and part of that is to wrap up story lines he didn't want to deal with...like Atwood's son.  Unlike the POTUS boy, Atwood's son was sort left dangling at the end of the first half of the season (in that they just quit mentioning him) and the new person a the helm may have decided to just close up shop on that story.

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Atwood's story is done. They can't bring him back and have him investigate a case that he was personally involved in. And having a dead son as the elephant in the room in all of Atwood's scenes just wouldn't work. Reed Diamond's character has taken over the role of Hannah's boss who she works with to crack the case.

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On 3/15/2017 at 11:21 PM, Bobbin said:

.

It's a good thing Hannah was out in the field when that smarmy "attorney hired by her family" came calling. "Oh, and I brought you some pudding."

 

Actually I think it was supposed to be a bad thing. I think that is how the conspiracy confirmed that Hannah was still working the case and not in lock up for the attempted assassination of the President. As if any person with a Bar card can just walk up to a jail desk and demand to see a suspect in this kind of case

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5 hours ago, orza said:

Atwood's story is done. They can't bring him back and have him investigate a case that he was personally involved in. And having a dead son as the elephant in the room in all of Atwood's scenes just wouldn't work. Reed Diamond's character has taken over the role of Hannah's boss who she works with to crack the case.

Atwood could still prove useful in the investigation of the conspiracy since he was in communication with "The Mysterious and Calculating Dark-Haired Woman" (™ IMDb) seen again this episode.

Edited by shapeshifter
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I was surprised by the ending with the Macleish shootings.  Probably the best moment of the season so far. 

Nice Godfather moment at the end too. 

I am going to admit my stupidity now too :  I realized last night I have been mixing up Sandra Oh and Maggie Q for years. 

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From what I've seen online, seems like this episode got a lot of people excited about the show, which makes me happy to see. Though it's a blessing as well as a curse, because now there's the expectation to have an episode like that every week.

Question: I've seen a couple places say that the season finale for DS is in 2 weeks, but I can't find any press or anything official from the show stating this. Did anyone else hear this to be the case? If so, is there a link/where did you read about it?

If it's true, that seems very weird to me. Why would they end so soon when ABC ordered a full 22-episode season and they just came back from a 3-month hiatus?

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On March 17, 2017 at 2:46 PM, paigow said:

The kid probably had a growth spurt so they killed him instead of recasting.....

I don't think his son was ever even shown. Only spoken about. 

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1 hour ago, calipiano81 said:

Question: I've seen a couple places say that the season finale for DS is in 2 weeks

As far as I can see, there are ten more episodes to go.

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On 3/16/2017 at 3:03 PM, blackwing said:

I'm a bit surprised they killed MacLeish and his wife off so quickly.  I would have expected him to have gotten arrested, then she continues as the driving force for a few episodes or so.  The lady who asked at the jail about Hannah is the same Mysterious Lady who threatened Atwood, right?  I'm sure there is someone in charge even above her.

I am suspicious of Alex.  The fact that the President went out of his way to tell Hannah and Mike that it was unnecessary to dismiss her... something is up with her.  She's trying to find out info and acts put out when she gets denied.  There has to be more to it than this.  She's probably a Russian sleeper agent like Angelina Jolie in "Salt".  That would also explain why her accent slipped in and out in the past.

Wouldn't that be a funny future outcome?  "Those people on the Internet guessed it early on, because they figured, no way would anyone cast an expensively salaried big-name actress in the 21st century, in a plot/series where she does literally nothing except worry, fret, and wring her hands over the fate and lives of family members."  (Of course, can First Ladies have independent "other" careers?  Maybe the writer's room problem is, she can't have a working purpose or functionality other than passivity, and/as the audience shot down any interest in watching her play mommy, or perhaps more properly, couldn't wait to see the back of the kids.)

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On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Mindthinkr said:

Am I watching the same show? I just saw a very unrealistic portrayal of The President having open chest surgery and out of recovery waking up smiling at his wife. Not so much as a wince when he sat up for the first time. It bugs me when they make it look like a piece of cake. Also they attach the IV when he gets in the OR? Nope. 

The sweetest part was when his wife slipped his wedding ring back on  

Even though unrealistic I did like him waving to the ppl from the window. 

The writing is not the best. At first they said it was a through and through bullet wound, there would have been no fragments because no bones were hit. Why is he walking with a cane? He was shot only in the shoulder.in the real world both the vp's wife and agent Hanna wells would have been taken out by secret service. 

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The whole episode is not bad, but my main take-away is I FEEL SO BAD FOR AARON. I don't think he is guilty, so it must have sucked knowing your colleagues, sort-of girlfriend and boss are investigating you. And now his access is restricted! The actor playing him is doing a great job, showing subtle emotion. Please don't kill Aaron off. He is the least sanctimonious of the WH team.

I'm calling it now: Mike is the mole. His sudden deep involvement in the conspiracy and becoming Kirkman's right-hand man is textbook writing of a mole (IMO). In this episode alone, he was executing a lot of his ideas (e.g. asking the VP's Secret Service to stand back, restricting Aaron's access, cutting off info to the First-Lady). Nothing wrong with these ideas, but I am curious to know how it will all add up in the end.

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10 minutes ago, waving feather said:

The whole episode is not bad, but my main take-away is I FEEL SO BAD FOR AARON. I don't think he is guilty, so it must have sucked knowing your colleagues, sort-of girlfriend and boss are investigating you. And now his access is restricted! The actor playing him is doing a great job, showing subtle emotion. Please don't kill Aaron off. He is the least sanctimonious of the WH team.

I'm calling it now: Mike is the mole. His sudden deep involvement in the conspiracy and becoming Kirkman's right-hand man is textbook writing of a mole (IMO). In this episode alone, he was executing a lot of his ideas (e.g. asking the VP's Secret Service to stand back, restricting Aaron's access, cutting off info to the First-Lady). Nothing wrong with these ideas, but I am curious to know how it will all add up in the end.

I agree, sadly. The mole can't be Aaron, because he's an extremely obvious red herring and suspicion fell on him way too early. It can't be Emily (I don't think, because she's been working with Kirkman since before any of this was even on the horizon), it can't be Seth (because Kirkman randomly picked him out and gave him the job), it can't be Hannah (she's gone through too much for her to be involved), so who else is left? Who would give us a surprising twist with an emotional payoff?

a) Alex (and I do suspect her as well, especially after this week),

b) Mike (the most obvious suspect, at this point, which might mean he's innocent after all),

and, like, c) Hookstraten? That'd be cool, but I do trust her, weirdly.

Kirkman truly trusts Mike, so he would feel completely betrayed. How about the scene in which Kirkman tells Mike he could have killed MacLeish with his bare hands? Maybe it was foreshadowing. What if Kirkman has to kill Mike, by the end of the season? Aw. Poor Mike.

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Ok, so theorizing:

  1. Mike is a Baddie.
  2. The Baddies want Kirkman dead.
  3. Mike carries a gun in Kirkman's presence.
  4. Baddies (example: Lady MacBeth) are willing to give their lives for the cause.

So, why doesn't Mike just slap leather and shoot Kirkman?

For that matter, we have an organization of baddies that make a plan complex enough to secretly build a bomb shelter into the Capitol, and have their choice of President survive the blast that kills everyone else.  Why did they not bump off Kirkman at the same time?  Perhaps someone knows what happens in the event of a total decapitation, including the designated survivor?  I would think that MacLeish, as the sole survivor, would be a shoe-in for the top job!

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On 3/17/2017 at 9:05 AM, Texasmom1970 said:

I also trust agent Mike. But then again I may be just hypnotized by his strong jawline, lovely teeth, I will stop there!

I love Agent Mike! He is very smart.

15 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Kimble - put those puppies away. You never see Nancy Pelosi or Paul Ryan flashing that kind of cleavage. Now, Mitch McConnell on the other hand...

Kimble is very shrewd. She should be the VP. Is she supposed to be a Republican? Kirkman is an Independent & there are many independents in the new congress. I hope the show explores how a Congres with so many independents would work. Kirkman was a Secretary under a Democratic President , so he is supportive of a Democratic agenda.

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11 hours ago, queenanne said:

Wouldn't that be a funny future outcome?  "Those people on the Internet guessed it early on, because they figured, no way would anyone cast an expensively salaried big-name actress in the 21st century, in a plot/series where she does literally nothing except worry, fret, and wring her hands over the fate and lives of family members."  (Of course, can First Ladies have independent "other" careers?  Maybe the writer's room problem is, she can't have a working purpose or functionality other than passivity, and/as the audience shot down any interest in watching her play mommy, or perhaps more properly, couldn't wait to see the back of the kids.)

I don't like Alex. She is a busybody. She didn't tell Kirkman that their son was involved with drugs. She intervened in the refugee files of some of her clients. She shouldn't be in meetings where classified info is discussed.

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Am I the only one here who likes Alex? I feel badly for her. She witnessed her husband being shot and the subsequent surgical drama. She was her husband's confidant and now she isn't. She can't go back to practicing law unless she does so in a symbolic and First Ladyish way.  So I don't blame her for feeling resentful at being left out of the loop, even if I see how it is necessary.  Hope she can find a new role for herself.

Edited by marinw

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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:39 PM, Netfoot said:

Well, I never saw that coming.

What sort of organization could make Lady Macbeth kill not only her own husband, but her own self as well?  

I'm hoping the Russians are the big bad.  I'm so tired of Muslim terrorists in these storylines, and 24 is doing it again. 

I found it interesting that MacLeish seemed tormented by what the US government did, and that's what compelled him to turn.  Reminds me a little of Brody in Homeland.

Hopefully Lady MacLeish knew her children would be cared for before turning them into orphans. 

The show just became very interesting to me.  The big bads were only a spoke in the wheel.

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5 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I agree, sadly. The mole can't be Aaron, because he's an extremely obvious red herring and suspicion fell on him way too early. It can't be Emily (I don't think, because she's been working with Kirkman since before any of this was even on the horizon), it can't be Seth (because Kirkman randomly picked him out and gave him the job), it can't be Hannah (she's gone through too much for her to be involved), so who else is left? Who would give us a surprising twist with an emotional payoff?

a) Alex (and I do suspect her as well, especially after this week),

b) Mike (the most obvious suspect, at this point, which might mean he's innocent after all),

and, like, c) Hookstraten? That'd be cool, but I do trust her, weirdly.

Kirkman truly trusts Mike, so he would feel completely betrayed. How about the scene in which Kirkman tells Mike he could have killed MacLeish with his bare hands? Maybe it was foreshadowing. What if Kirkman has to kill Mike, by the end of the season? Aw. Poor Mike.

I didn't realize there was some sort of shake up that involved a new show runner and/or writers.  So I'm going with this - the mole is yet to be introduced.  Maybe they didn't care for what was planned - the extended plot involving the MacLeishes - so step one was killing them off, and implying there is someone higher up who is much more sinister.  I guess we will see if new people are quickly introduced. 

I don't think the bad guy is Mike - the actor is simply too weak to have an challenging role like that.  I also don't suspect Alex or Seth.  I hope it's not  Aaron - I enjoy the actor, and he's lovely to look at.

Agreeing with a poster upthread, I was hoping for an "Americans" type theme with the MacLeishes.  Since Peter seemed to be a true patriot until whatever happened with the disastrous mission, I don't think that's true.  Although, Lady MacLeish seemed the true fanatic, so she could have been a planted Russian, like The Americans.  We'll see.  I think Russia being the big bad is very timely, and I'm hoping for that.  Enough with the stereotypical Islamic terrorists!

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I actually was glad that the writers went there and killed the young boy (even more happy that we did not have to see it...) as I am always amazed when t.v. characters BELIEVE terrorists, etc., about letting the family members live after someone does what they are told.  

I am so over the First Lady's sense of entitlement to her husband's position and power.  She uses it for her own ends (deportation story) and expects him to tell her everything when she does not return the favor (son and drugs).  Plus, staff members are telling her things that they should be telling the President (Emily with the info about Aaron).  then she is all incensed that he is talking privately with others.  It is almost like she does not understand what the office of the President is or what his responsibilities are.  I think it would be brilliant if she was somehow involved (especially as she was reminiscing about her being the one to get him to take the HUD position).

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6 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Kimble - put those puppies away...

It works for Angela Merkel...This might improve poll numbers for Kimble...

ETA: Scarlett Johansson says she wants to run for office maybe 5- 10 years from now...Art imitating / predicting life

Edited by paigow
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2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think Russia being the big bad is very timely, and I'm hoping for that.  Enough with the stereotypical Islamic terrorists!

When the Cold War ended, who were the go-to bad guys? International organized crime - Drug / human trafficking; Terrorists [foreign / domestic, secular / non secular] or smaller Rogue states - North Korea, Fake!Iran, Fake!Iraq

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