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Expedition Unknown

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24 minutes ago, Arynm said:

I don't understand all the people that just dismiss this theory out of hand. Why is it so farfetched as any of the other theories that are floating around. The sheer number of eye witness accounts should lend this some weight but people just don't buy it. 

Yeah, plus the captured by Japanese theory has been around for a long, long time too, so it's not like it's something new.  I've read some snarky remarks like "If you look closely, you can see Bigfoot on the ship".  People just want to appear smart by dismissing it, without looking into the entire story.  By the way, I've noticed a lot of the copies of the picture on the internet have the far right cropped out, which is where you can see the Electra on the barge.

Then there's the people who don't want to believe the government would lie to them.  Supposedly the US government coded intercepted Japanese messages indicating they had Earhart, but the US didn't want to reveal it because they didn't want them to know we had cracked their codes.  After the war, I imagine they didn't want to increase resentment toward their former enemy for keeping (and possibly executing) an American hero prisoner. 

I see no reason to think that she had to have crashed into the sea, a pilot is going to try to find some place to land if she realizes she is running out of fuel, and there were many islands in the area.

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I see in the news today that a Japanese history buff has found that same picture in a book published two years before Earhart went missing. The producers of the History show said they are standing behind their story and looking into the claim. 

Thanks for the link rmontro. 

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8 hours ago, Taffy said:

I see in the news today that a Japanese history buff has found that same picture in a book published two years before Earhart went missing. The producers of the History show said they are standing behind their story and looking into the claim. 

Thanks for pointing that out, Taffy.  An interesting new development for sure.  I'll be following that story.  Funny how that picture from a book would be in the National Archives.  Maybe that's why the History Channel hasn't rerun the special.

The captured by Japanese theory doesn't rest solely on that photo though, by any means, no matter how that turns out.  It reminds me a bit of a Holy Relic.  Whether or not some churches really have a piece of the True Cross, has little to do with whether or not Jesus Christ was crucified.  

Edited by rmontro
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This new info on the possible dating on the photo is very interesting. If it turns out to be true that the photo predates the flight, I fear that this whole theory will be dismissed. It's kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, just because one part isn't accurate doesn't mean the whole thing is bunk. I still have a hard time ignoring all the first hand accounts. What about the lady with the radio who heard Earhart for days after and told the authorities and they ignored her? Earhart was a rockstar in those days, I think it's strange they totally blew her off.

Everyone keeps saying that Japan didn't want to rock the boat with the US and would have done anything they could to get her back home, but I seem to remember that after the first World War, the Allies treated the Japanese very badly. We ignored them completely in the aftermath and the treaty signing and they were very put out. It's one of the main reasons why they joined the Axis parties in World War 2. I might have it completely wrong, but that seems like something that might have colored what they might have done if they came across Earhart and Noonan.

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I thought the program on Earhart was very well done.  Even if you dismiss the photo, there is so much other evidence to support the Marshall Islands/Saipan theory.

Earhart was a good, trained pilot.  Absolutely she would have landed that plane.  The fact that not one piece of the plane, or anything or anyone on it, was discovered in the waters tells me the plane didn't crash into the ocean.  In the days when pilots had to use eyesight and mileage calculations to determine where they were, it's not surprising that she may have ended up much further west than she planned. 

The nurse that heard Earhart's transmissions - - that entire story made me angry.  She did the right thing, by immediately contacting the FBI and even gave them Marshall Islands . . . and then she was ignored.  I suppose it's fortunate that she never went missing or anything like that but it seems clear there was some kind of agenda at play.  Like @Arynm said, Amelia Earhart was a rockstar and her disappearance was major news.   It would have been major news to locate and rescue her so ignoring this woman and basically burying her information says there was no desire or effort to save Amelia Earhart. 

I think the saddest suggestion is that despite the U.S. knowing exactly where she was and who had her, we chose to do nothing so that Japan would not know our military had broken their code.  The thought of her waiting for us to rescue her, being imprisoned in a cell because she was an American at a time when Americans were not welcome and suspected of being a spy . . . it's heartbreaking.  Along with the thought of Fred Noonan being beheaded.  Just tragic. 

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16 hours ago, Taffy said:

I see in the news today that a Japanese history buff has found that same picture in a book published two years before Earhart went missing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/questions-raised-over-unearthed-amelia-earhart-photo-n782016

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/asia/amelia-earhart-photo-japan/

Kota Yamano, a Japanese military history blogger, was skeptical about the photo as well. Shortly after learning about it, he searched the term "Jaluit" in the National Diet Library and quickly found the photo in a 1935 book. The whole thing took about 30 minutes, he said.

"I wonder why (the) History Channel did not have even one person who understand Japanese or the history between Japan and (the) US," he told CNN.

Holly, the blogger, said the lack of Japanese soldiers on the dock suggested it was not taken in 1937.

"The entire life of the Marshallese was changing. Then in 1937 (came) the war on China and military activities in the Marshall Islands (by the Japanese). There is not a Japanese person on that dock. If it was 1937, there would be Japanese soldiers there," he said.

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1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

think the saddest suggestion is that despite the U.S. knowing exactly where she was and who had her, we chose to do nothing so that Japan would not know our military had broken their code.  The thought of her waiting for us to rescue her, being imprisoned in a cell because she was an American at a time when Americans were not welcome and suspected of being a spy . . . it's heartbreaking.  Along with the thought of Fred Noonan being beheaded.  Just tragic. 

I agree, it is heartbreaking.  

Assuming this criticism of the photo holds up, this is going to be embarrassing for the History Channel.  I'm curious to see how they handle it.

I'm trying to remember if there was any content about the Japanese theory on the Expedition Unknown episode.  All I remember of it was that it seemed to focus on the castaway idea, which was why Josh was crawling under that house looking for those bones.  It's funny how all these artifacts related to Amelia Earhart have a habit of disappearing:  the "castaway" bones, the bones dug up in Saipan on TV in 1966, etc. 

You know, if we could get a conversation like this on all the Expedition Unknown topics, this forum would really be something.  By the way, notice how I threw in that bit about the True Cross in my previous post, which was the subject of another Expedition Unknown episode?  Pretty clever, eh?

Regarding the article that Moose135 quoted above:  IIRC, Earhart disappeared five days before the war between Japan and China started.  I don't know if that would affect whether there would be Japanese soldiers on the dock in Jaluit or not.  If the photo is unrelated, I guess the point is moot anyway.  But you can see by the people interviewed that the people of the Marshall Islands of the time had a fear of the Japanese.  They were not at war with us yet, but as we saw from their subsequent actions, that government was secretive, a little paranoid, and not welcoming of outsiders (no offense intended to the Japanese people).  They may have even sincerely believed that Earhart and Noonan were on a spy mission, under cover of their round the world flight.

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31 minutes ago, rmontro said:

 They may have even sincerely believed that Earhart and Noonan were on a spy mission, under cover of their round the world flight.

I read somewhere, if I can hunt it down I will post it, but there was some speculation that she was spying. Or, at least, had cameras on the plane that might be mistaken for spying. I also heard that there was nothing extra on that plane at all, it was basically just fuel and the bare minimum of equipment they could get away with, so who really knows?

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7 minutes ago, Arynm said:

I read somewhere, if I can hunt it down I will post it, but there was some speculation that she was spying. 

I've heard that also.  As you say, I believe it was just speculation.  But whether that's likely or not, it certainly isn't outside the realm of possibility.  

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While my inclination is too believe the simplest story, (she crashed into the sea) i'm open to other scenarios if they can show some hard evidence.  But the story told in the show had WAY too many assumptions to be believable. They assumed too many things to prove anything IMO.  And if this picture is proved to be published before the crash date, it makes the whole show hard to believe. Due diligence anyone?

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I really hate that this kerfluffle over the picture is probably the death knell for this theory, if it's proven to be pre-flight. I think that the people that put this together were looking for a "hook" and seized upon this picture and ran with it. It's really too bad that they didn't do their due diligence and find this picture. They were probably trying to keep it under wraps to make it a surprise when they announced the show and it has backfired on them.

Doesn't make the story untrue but it really throws a shadow over the whole thing

13 hours ago, KHenry14 said:

And if this picture is proved to be published before the crash date, it makes the whole show hard to believe. Due diligence anyone?

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The photo was just window dressing.  Like Arynm said, it was a hook to advertise the special.  I don't think it damages the theory any, because that theory has been around for decades.  The evidence for the Japanese theory rests mainly on the witnesses in the Marshall Islands and Saipan.  No one knows for sure what happened to her, of course, there is no definitive proof of anything either way.  But there's an awful lot of smoke surrounding this story for there to be no fire.

The photo problem obviously throws a shadow over the special, which is a shame, because it was so well done.  Now I'll give an example which will probably not help the case any, but it makes sense to me lol.  Older people might remember Geraldo Rivera's special about Al Capone's vault.  They opened the vault on live TV and found basically nothing.  It damaged Rivera's reputation.  Everybody made fun of it.  But I had a different reaction.  I enjoyed the part of the show that talked about the history of Prohibition, and Al Capone's life.  I thought it was pretty interesting.  They didn't have a History Channel back in those days.  So I felt like I got something out of it, even though they didn't find anything when they opened the vault.  That's kind of how I feel about the picture.  It's a shame it wasn't what they said it was, but the special was still interesting.  

I was never fully convinced about the picture anyway.  Although I still think that looks like an airplane being towed on the far right.

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They found a bottle of beer in Capone's vault.  It wasn't completely empty.  ?

And you're right.  The vault opening was only the last five minutes of the special.

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The trajectory this thread has taken makes me think we need to start a new topic. Something along the lines of Josh Gates vs Everybody Else. I am home for summer break and have been watching the Science Channel. They do a lot of the same same investigations as EU. (My husband can't wait for me to get back to work so he can watch sports all day!) 

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Thanks for the tip, Taffy, I'll have to start paying more attention to the Science Channel.  In fact, I see they have a special on Earhart tonight, lol.  If that's the one I think it is, I think it promotes the castaway theory.

The thing I like about Expedition Unknown as opposed to Josh's older show, Destination Truth, are the more historical mysteries that are explored.  I've seen as many of the ghost hunting type episodes that I care to.  How many times can you watch someone say "Can you give us a sign of your presence?" in green night vision? 

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I have an update on the controversial photo.  I haven't seen anything in the mainstream news, but there are a few sites that dispute that the photo comes from 1935 or before.

According to this view, the book that the photo was found in was not a book, but a photo album, and the pages were held together with string.  There was no copyright date, there was just a library stamp dating the album to 1935.  But the docks shown in the picture were supposedly not built until 1936, which means that the photo couldn't have come from 1935 or before.  Also, there is a caption beneath the photo which says the ship in the picture is the Koshu.  But records indicate the only time the Koshu was in Jaluit was in July of 1937.  So maybe that is a picture of the Electra after all.

http://www.earhartmovie.com/

http://www.earhartonsaipan.com/

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Folks, a little talk about Earhart is one thing, but it seems that this topic has become the discuss Earhart only. Let's move back to Josh and his adventures. Thanks! 

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6 hours ago, Ananayel said:

He's run out of things on earth to look for - it's aliens!

Oh this makes me sad :(  We have so much cool stuff on Earth, why go there? Aliens are scary and weird and scary. 

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Does anyone know why all the aired episodes for the most recent season haven't shown up on iTunes (and those that ARE on iTunes are out of order)?  Supposedly there's been many episodes that have aired, but only the two-part Viking episodes and the Stonehenge episode are up on iTunes.

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1 hour ago, EricaShadows said:

Does anyone know why all the aired episodes for the most recent season haven't shown up on iTunes (and those that ARE on iTunes are out of order)?  Supposedly there's been many episodes that have aired, but only the two-part Viking episodes and the Stonehenge episode are up on iTunes.

I don't watch on iTunes, so I can't really answer you there. But besides the extraterrestrial episodes and the ones you listed related to the Vikings and Stonehenge, I think the other "new" episodes were old episodes that they either had new behind-the-scenes footage of or the game show type episodes, not actual new episodes. 

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There have only been three new episodes this season. Everything else has been either new footage added to old episodes or old footage interspersed with him asking questions to people on the streets (Josh's favorite things, Global game show, Top 5 expeditions, etc.).

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I have to wonder about the "new footage/old episodes" thing as I don't remember any previous episodes having to deal with the book "The Secret" or metal books created by an ancient civilization in Ecuador.  The only episodes I could find dealing with the "Wild West" before the Butch Cassidy one was one dealing with Jesse James and the search for Plummer's gold in Montana.  However, I got rid of cable (since my cable provider decided to keep raising the prices on me, including when I dropped down a "level" and they charged me one month at that price before raising the price back to what it was before without any corresponding raise in available channels or other service provided) and haven't seen any of the episodes that have aired.

I should go and check to see if I can watch them online at the website.

Edited by EricaShadows

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Not surprised Josh called "The Secret" his favorite expedition, it was a lot of fun.  I had never heard of this treasure book before, I thought it was going to be about that book of the same name that is about making your own reality.   

I really thought they had found one of the plexiglass boxes, but it was just a piece of tile.  Too bad we don't see real results from these shows very often.

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1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Not surprised Josh called "The Secret" his favorite expedition, it was a lot of fun.  I had never heard of this treasure book before, I thought it was going to be about that book of the same name that is about making your own reality.   

I really thought they had found one of the plexiglass boxes, but it was just a piece of tile.  Too bad we don't see real results from these shows very often.

This was a really fun episode! I loved when Josh admitted he played dungeons and dragons.

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On 1/20/2018 at 0:28 AM, rmontro said:

I really thought they had found one of the plexiglass boxes, but it was just a piece of tile.  Too bad we don't see real results from these shows very often.

I believe the only episode where there has been actual RL results, not just conjecture, is the Suleiman's Heart one.  The archeologists actually DID find the temple underneath that vine field, and part of that was shown on the episode.  I don't know if it was a re-enactment, but Josh's enthusiasm and excitement make me believe that while they suspected the temple remains were there or perhaps found other remains, those blocks/foundation parts were discovered during filming.

I can't recall another episode, where there were actual results.  Hence the blurb at the end of the episode.

Edited by roamyn

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27 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I can't recall another episode, where there were actual results.  Hence the blurb at the end of the episode.

My recollection is that they found real bones in the Amelia Earhart episode — not Amelia’s as far as anyone knew, but the police showed up, I think. Does it could if they found results, but unrelated ones?

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19 hours ago, jennblevins said:

My recollection is that they found real bones in the Amelia Earhart episode — not Amelia’s as far as anyone knew, but the police showed up, I think. Does it could if they found results, but unrelated ones?

 I Meant related to the actual mystery of the week.  I should’ve been more clear, sorry.

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On 1/21/2018 at 10:00 PM, roamyn said:

I believe the only episode where there has been actual RL results, not just conjecture, is the Suleiman's Heart one.  The archeologists actually DID find the temple underneath that vine field

A great find for sure, although they didn't find Suleiman's heart (or the container that it was supposed to be in), which was what they were looking for more specifically.  I think there was conjecture that the heart was supposed to have been buried in that temple?

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Wow..didn't know there was an Expedition Unknown area here on the forums.  Most cool.

I also enjoyed "The Secret" episode.   What's weird is I live in IL and have been in the Midwest for most of my adult life.  And I have never heard of that book or that search for the treasure(s) before.  It's so sad the creator of that treasure hunt died in a car crash.  But it was cool of Josh to interview his daughters on the show. 

And I really thought Josh had found one of those boxes in St. Augustine.  Just a piece of tile...sigh.  I can understand why this quest can be fun and so utter frustrating at the same time. 

I really hope for updates here.  I wonder just how many of those boxes will be found.  Good luck to those who are still searching!

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The Hunt for the Metal Library was pretty awesome.  I've been in some caves before, but just watching I was starting to feel claustrophobic in a few spots.  I would be afraid the water level would rise and I would be trapped there.  Amazing footage though.  If that last room was the one that was originally found, you could see how someone might mistake the formations for writing on the walls or a giant manmade statue.  

I don't think there are any unfound golden plates though.  If a civilization had been in that cave, I would think that one of the expeditions would have at least found some evidence of a large human presence.

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Saw Secrets of Brother XII last night.  I had never heard of Brother XII before, what a bizarre story.  I had just seen a documentary on the Jonestown Massacre, so it was interesting to compare cults.  Both leaders had sex with multiple female members of their "flock", and both leaders kept their followers worn out with manual labor.  Amazing to think of Mary Connally donating $28,000 to his cause, and she ended up being treated like a plowhorse on his farm.  Don't give your money to cult leaders is the lesson there, I guess.

Regarding the tape where the guy talked about the location of the gold, from what he said I took it to mean that the gold was buried beneath the concrete platform.  He said something like "We laid the platform, and when we were done the gold was gone, but could be found by metal detector".  I guess the others had more information though, and they said the gold was buried outside the platform.  The only info I have is the snippet of the tape they played on the air.

And we got the usual false alarm didn't really dig up any treasure bit.  Still, one of the better episodes IMO.

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I believe it is.  I read somewhere that Expedition Unknown has already been renewed for another season.  So my guess is you're right -- this new show will run for awhile and new Expedition Unknown episodes will air.  At least I hope so!

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Now that Scripps owns the Travel Channel, they seem to have incorporated their formula of having a handful of hosts, each with multiple shows. So far Legendary Locations has been Josh narrating but not really involved in the story itself. Most likely he filmed the whole order in one go. 

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On 4/7/2018 at 1:30 AM, Toothbrush said:

So far Legendary Locations has been Josh narrating but not really involved in the story itself. Most likely he filmed the whole order in one go. 

Yeah, it looks like the easiest job Josh has had.  He just stands in front of his globe and does some narration.  Unfortunately, this is lacking the best component of Josh Gates shows (IMO):

Where Josh interacts with the natives and gets a taste of the local culture.

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I saw where this summer (May 29th?) the show will air new episodes on the Discovery Channel. 

Wonder if this is just a summer change, or if new seasons will be shown on the Discovery Channel from now on?

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Are they actual new episodes, or old episodes that haven't aired on the Discovery Channel? The Travel Channel is airing several years' old 'Destination Truth' episodes and they are listed as new in the channel guide since they originally aired on SyFy. They also changed the name to Josh Gates' Destination Truth, I guess to catch the attention of Expedition Unknown/Josh Gates fans.  

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19 hours ago, Toothbrush said:

They also changed the name to Josh Gates' Destination Truth, I guess to catch the attention of Expedition Unknown/Josh Gates fans.  

Besides, the name change makes them all the more new!  

;)

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