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S04.E15: Self Control

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What?!

WHAT?!?  I can't EVEN. Ward?!? Ward!!! Hydra??

Okay, is it next week yet? How many episodes are we going to get in the framework? Think we'll see Triplett alive too? Or Ward's CI that now I can't think of his name. Will the Avengers be dead? 

My mind is blown. This might be right up there with the Hydra reveal. And we have to wait until April. Unreal.

Edited by SnoGirl
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It's no coincidence that the best two episodes (Yes, I consider this to be one of them) had Elizabeth Henstridge at their center. And that's not just my massive crush talking. Not to short-change the other great performances: Chloe Bennett, Iain De Caestecker and Ming Na-Wen.

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Ohhhhh, that Framework tease!  Freaking Grant Ward!  FREAKING HYDRA!  (But not until freaking April? Booo.)

I love Daisy and Simmons together.  I don't even ship them (well ... maybe I do now!), but that scene where they were trying to figure out if the other was an LMD had way more chemistry than any of the actual romantic couples.  (Not to say the similar scene with Fitz and Simmons wasn't excellent as well, but I feel like Daisy and Simmons together are something special.)

Honestly, this episode was all-around the best of the arc for me.  I've been a bit bored and uninterested in this storyline; I think it's been the focus on Coulson (and the Philinda romance that I don't buy at all ... and the boring Russian baddie).  But now, I'm actually excited to see what's going to happen in the next episode.

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May is in Hydra in the framework?  What in the butt?  She's happy in there?  Coulson hates Inhumans, Ward and Daisy are a couple, Simmons is dead, and who the heck was in the car with Fitz?

This is what the hell?

This was a really good episode.  Daisy and Simmons usually make for a good team, so I had no problem with them saving the day.  I like Decay May helping them out.  This was a really good tight episode.

Considering the undertones with Daisy and Simmons in season 1 (mainly Simmons having a girl crush on her), the scene of a sweaty Daisy in training clothes hugging Simmons and using her powers, was definitely LesYay.

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There were some really good moments in this.  I wondered if Fitz or Simmons was actually compromised, but they had me guessing.  The confrontations between Simmons and Fitz and Simmons and Daisy were excellent.  I liked that LMDMay got to go out on her terms.

Totally wasn't expecting digital Ward, or Hydra dominating the digital world.  Just looking at the set-ups, April is going to be incredibly painful.  Mack picking up a little girl's bike made me wince.  And Jemma is dead?  Does she have to crawl out of the digital ground?

Clark Gregg was giving some creepy expressions as LMDCoulson. 

Well, Radcliffe is one less physical person they have to worry about.  Knew that Aida would do something like that eventually.

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6 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

What?!

WHAT?!?  I can't EVEN. Ward?!? Ward!!! Hydra??

Okay, is it next week yet? How many episodes are we going to get in the framework? Think we'll see Triplett alive too? Or Ward's CI that now I can't think of his name. Will the Avengers be dead? 

My mind is blown. This might be right up there with the Hydra reveal. And we have to wait until April. Unreal.

I won't be able to watch until tomorrow, but please, please, don't tell me Brett Dalton is back.

Why can't I have nice things?

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That was a GREAT episode.  Hats off to everyone involved.  Intense, action-packed and just some really good storytelling.

This virtual Hydra world should be a lot of fun.  I'm only sorry we have to wait until April to see it.  GRRRRR!!!!!!

Now this is a way to bring back Ward that I can get behind.

Quote

Considering the undertones with Daisy and Simmons in season 1 (mainly Simmons having a girl crush on her), the scene of a sweaty Daisy in training clothes hugging Simmons and using her powers, was definitely LesYay.

Yeah, there seemed to be a lot of chemistry between them here.

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Just now, Enigma X said:

I won't be able to watch until tomorrow, but please, please, don't tell me Brett Dalton is back.

Why can't I have nice things?

Man, get out of this thread before you get spoiled like crazy! Lol, your mind is going to be blown if you don't read anymore. I'm still in total and complete shock. This episode was brilliant. I hope we're in the framework for at least two episodes!

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Holy fuckballs, that was amazing!!!

I need it to be Tue, April 4th, tomorrow.  

I love alternate reality stories, so I hope they spend the majority of the final arc/episodes this season exploring it.  ABC had internally been subtitling it 'The Framework', but I guess they dropped that.  

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Well, that was nuts!  Fitz was actually a LMD, and it is Daisy who is still her normal self instead.  I honestly didn't see that coming, and that is all on Ian De Caestecker totally selling it, until the truth finally came out.  The way he flipped from whimpering Fitz into calm, LMD one was scary.  The entire between him and Simmons was brilliant, as was Simmons taking him out for a moment.  Elizabeth Henstridge was awesome as well.  The show really stuck gold with the casting of these two and how they're turn two characters who easily could have been cliched or annoying into something else.

Also good getting to see more of Daisy and Simmons as a team.  That has always been a good a pairing.  And that isn't just because it involves a sweaty, sports bra clad Daisy hugging Simmons and telling her she will protect her.  Yeah, that was totally a bit of fan service there.

All the LMDs were pretty well-acted.  In particular, both Henry Simmons and Clark Gregg did a good job at having them come off a lot like the actual Mack and Coulson, but just having a... coldness to them that made it obvious something was wrong.

LMD Melinda sure went out like a badass!

At long last, Radcliffe's creation has finally turned on him, as Aida believes he is the biggest threat to The Framework due to him possibly having regrets in the future, so, naturally, she slits his wrists and hooks him back up.  Ouch!  And now she's creating a LMD of The Superior, whose severed head is controlling the body.  Crazy!

Glad Yoyo is safe.  For a second, I thought it was all going to be a set-up for her to get brutal killed by LMD Mack.

So, the big cliffhanger is Daisy and Simmons are going into The Framework to try and save everyone.  From what they have shown, Melinda is in Hydra (?!), Coulson is a teacher, Fitz is a bigwig with some woman, Simmons is dead (?!!), and Daisy is back with her boyfriend, but instead of Lincoln, it's Ward? (!!!!)  Why can't it be April 4th, already?!

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That was a mind-blowing episode. I'll have to watch it tomorrow to fully process it! Scenes that stood out: LMDFitz and Jemma's struggle and then Jemma prevailing, Jemma&Daisy hug, LMDMay's last dialogue with LMDCoulson (this scene gave me vibes of Bladerunner), LMDSuperior seeing his own head(!), HydraMay in the Framework, Fitz a bigwig in the Framework, Daisy and Ward back together in the Framework. All totally mind-bending! 

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17 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

At long last, Radcliffe's creation has finally turned on him, as Aida believes he is the biggest threat to The Framework due to him possibly having regrets in the future, so, naturally, she slits his wrists and hooks him back up.  Ouch!  

I can't help thinking that Aida is exacting a kind of revenge on Radcliffe in Agnes's name, since his fate parallels hers.

The "which of us is real?" scene for FitzSimmons was brutal, and Henstridge and De Caestecker were brilliant. I wondered if LMayD, the only one of the duplicates who seems to understand the moral implications of her own being, might prove helpful to Simmons and Daisy in the end. In a way, "June" is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s equivalent of the Mirror Universe version of Mr. Spock -- not the one we know, but somehow still irreducibly true to the essence of the original.

Edited by Sandman
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SHOW!!! Did I not say Fitz and Simmons have been through enough?!!!

I like Brett Dalton, but I do not need Ward back with Daisy in any version of reality. However, I will forgive everything if Tripp is somehow alive again.

The rest of this is BONKERS and hopefully I will be emotionally prepared for Marvel's "The Matrix" by the beginning of April.

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LMDs can bleed. Good to know. My Plan B would've been convincing LMD-Mack to decapitate his "friends" to prove he's the real deal. Daisy doing the vibration version of the Kamahameha attack? Just as impressive, even if she shattered lots of arm bones.

Okay, I know that next week is going to be hectic for networks. But early April? Damn, ABC. Don't you want people to love you and not go exclusive to Netflix and Legion?

2 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

The rest of this is BONKERS and hopefully I will be emotionally prepared for Marvel's "The Matrix" by the beginning of April.

Careful . . . that's "The Framework."

Damn, we're never gonna be rid of Brett Dalton, are we? I suppose he's nice, but Ward is an asshole no matter how he's played.

Just realized . . . they had a field of Daisies. Funny.

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Great episode. Army of Daisybots set to kill all Inhumans - where and who will they strike? Yo-yo's on board, that's a plus. Dreamworld that would otherwise be a nightmare, where Hydra is in control? Wonder who Radcliffe's had play dates with in his spare time before he "joined" SHIELD...

Aida's a Darkhold puppet seeking followers; what she did to Comrade Von RuskieDouche was colder than yet another 70 degree February morning, which is totally normal because we've always been at war with Eurasia.

Ward has always been the cyanide capsule implanted in the molars of this show's creators. STOP BITING DOWN FOR GODSSAKES WHAT ARE YOU

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3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Careful . . . that's "The Framework."

Oh, I know (infringement laws and all that). But after that hilarious "how many 'robots destroy the world' references can we make" episode a few weeks back, we'd better be getting at least a passing reference or two to some of the major alt-reality stories as well.

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35 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

SHOW!!! Did I not say Fitz and Simmons have been through enough?!!!

Heh. I share your consternation.

28 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Just realized . . . they had a field of Daisies. Funny.

I thought that was a nice little touch.

But I don't think I understand Simmons' and Daisy's plan. They're entering a simulation, interacting within that reality with people who don't know it's a simulation, hoping to find clues about the extra-reality location of the source beings of the avatars-who-don't-know-they're-not-real? Um. Isn't that like asking Simmons which sound stage Elizabeth Henstridge is shooting the episode on? Or did Simmons just invent the red pill? (I guess the writers have moved on from politics, and are now tackling religion.)

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Goddamn, this was an INTENSE episode! I knew something was fishy with Fitz at the end of the last episode. Always love seeing Daisy and Jemma work together.

Nice to see Agent Piper back after appearing Agent Vasquez in Supergirl a few weeks ago in a similar episode:

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Interesting episode.  In fact, one of the best of the season!

I let out a big "OH, SHIT!" when the LMD scanner picked up either Fitz or Simmons as the next LMD.  I figured it was Simmons since this arc seemed largely centered around Fitz, and Simmons seemed too eager to put this nightmare on Fitz.  But then, a split second before LMD!Fitz struck Simmons, I remembered that Simmons had been with Davis at the time, so no way for her to get replaced without him getting replaced, too.  Fitz, meanwhile, had been left alone.  Perfect opportunity for Aida to switch him.  And I will say, that scene between Iain and Elizabeth was incredibly well-acted.  That's the most chemistry I've felt between them in, like, EVER!

But I will agree with the props given to Clark and Henry for portraying LMD!Coulson and LMD!Mack just as much like they would portray the genuine articles, but just enough coldness to convey the LMDs.  Jeffrey did a fine job as LMD!Mace, as well.

Chloe and Elizabeth did a sensational job as Daisy and Simmons each tried to figure out whether the other was real or an LMD.  I almost cried with them as they hugged out of relief that they were each holding the real things.  And to see two women working together to figure everything out?  Pinnacle of AWESOME!

Aida finally turned on Radcliffe, like many of us saw coming weeks ago.  I wonder if he'll die from the wrist-slitting, or if that was just an Aida measure to stun him?

LMD!May went out the way she wanted and took LMD!Coulson and possibly LMD!Fitz with her.  Nice.

It's not Lincoln who's Daisy's Framework boyfriend, but Ward?  Well . . . okay.  I can understand that.  It was established that Daisy feels some regret over herself and Ward not working out due to the Hydra reveal.  I just figured Lincoln and his sacrifice would be the bigger regret for her.

So I guess everyone got what they wanted -- a formidable female villain now that Aida seems to be the one calling the shots.

Can't believe we're stuck waiting till April for this to go on.  Oh, well.  I'll be as patient as I can.

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18 minutes ago, Michel said:

Chloe and Elizabeth did a sensational job as Daisy and Simmons each tried to figure out whether the other was real or an LMD.  I almost cried with them as they hugged out of relief that they were each holding the real things.  And to see two women working together to figure everything out?  Pinnacle of AWESOME!

That squish/hug was my favorite part. And all in all the episode reminded me of Angel's "The Magic Bullet" in which a vulnerable female character has to go up against an army led by her friends who have been turned against her. Incredible episode!

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How much explosive was detonated? Did it destroy the entire base? The only people left in SHIELD L.A. are on that Zephyr? 

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Awesome acting by everyone in the episode especially by Iain and Elizabeth in the scene where Fitz and Simmons discover one of them is an LMD and Chloe and Elizabeth when they don't know if they can trust each other. Also Ming-Na as LMD May. Great job by Jed Whedon directing.

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I'm a longtime lurker who really only signed up to say this:

Jemma Anne Simmons

Devoted Daughter, Beloved Friend

Oh Whedons.......

Also, let's recall the fact that, after Buffy died, she was replaced with what essentially was an LMD. Sigh. Childhood memories.

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I was surprised by every turn of the LMD arc but should have seen on last showdown with another head of Hydra for the possible series finale coming. My speculation for the woman with Fritz is Agnus or Bobbi.

 

Did we just see the origin story of the MCU version of MODOK Superior?

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I just figured Lincoln and his sacrifice would be the bigger regret for her.

I don't think they could have Lincoln even if they wanted to, since Luke Mitchell is a regular on Blindspot.

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2 hours ago, TaylorTheLatteBoy said:

I'm a longtime lurker who really only signed up to say this:

Jemma Anne Simmons

Devoted Daughter, Beloved Friend

Oh Whedons.......

Also, let's recall the fact that, after Buffy died, she was replaced with what essentially was an LMD. Sigh. Childhood memories.

Hahaha yes I caught that Buffy reference too! 

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9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Just realized . . . they had a field of Daisies. Funny.

I'm awfully slow so didn't get that until reading your post - that is pretty funny.

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Just wanna start by saying that after this episode, I am 110% convinced that Quake is the greatest hero of Marvel TV. Sorry, I don't make the rules.

  • The twist of one half of Fitzsimmons being an LMD was suspected, of course, but it was done really well. The scene where Simmons has a gun on Fitz, and they're going back and forth arguing about which one of them were turned was excellent. 
  • I knew Aida realistically couldn't of took Daisy that easily, so I wasn't surprised when it was revealed that she wasn't an LMD.  
  • The writing for the Daisy/Simmons scene was outstanding. I almost cried when Daisy quaked Simmons with a hug, and you could see the relief radiating from both of them that niether were turned. Chloe and Elizabeth simply sparkle together, and I'm not sure why the writers never really continued to build on their characters' friendship after Season 1. If nothing else ever made me a Skimmons shipper, this episode certainly did.
  • Daisy vs Mace, Coulson, and Mac was fucking epic! It's insane how far Daisy has come - both as an agent, and in terms of her powerbase. Her final quake on the Coulson and Mac LMD's was straight savage!
  • LMayD is such a badass. I was so happy that she turned on the other murderbots - even if it meant her own destruction.
  • With Daisy and Simmons entering the Framework, it looks like the last half of this season is about to be Flashpoint-like. Now I get what Chloe meant when she talked about how the last arc ties back all of the seasons. I cannot wait to see what the writers have in store. Though it looks like the Framework world is err.. very much opposite. Daisy with Ward, Coulson against inhumans, Hydra's return, etc. It's gonna be trippy.
  • Lastly, is anyone else REALLY not looking forward to seeing Ward again? I'm not gonna say he wasn't an effective villain, but he did awful, toxic things to Daisy, and to the rest of the team. I'm not comfortable with seeing their abuser back on the screen. Even if this is an alternate world. 
Edited by teenj12
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3 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

 

  • Lastly, is anyone else REALLY not looking forward to seeing Ward again? I'm not gonna say he wasn't an effective villain, but he did awful, toxic things to Daisy, and to the rest of the team. I'm not comfortable with seeing their abuser back on the screen. Even if this is an alternate world. 

Can there be multiple independent versions of Framework!Ward? For example, May wants sexytimes with Evil!HYDRA!Ward ... Does he disappear from Daisy's "reality"? Can both Wards engage in "Mortal Kombat" with each other? What if Fitz wants to "kill" Ward?  

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What I do love about this show is how they really focus on the females of the team. Daisy/Simmons/LMayD saving the day was perfect. I knew Fitz was an LMD! The surprising part was Daisy not being an LMD, but I loved that they allowed the women to be the ones in the center. All other shows, superhero or otherwise, have at least one male in the protagonist role in any episode. It's never all the women who make the sacrifices and do the work that needs to be done. So having even LMayD save the day was a nice surprise, and an amazing turn of events. It's just a shame that this show has been losing the popularity that it had in season 1. I'd love to just shout to the fanbases that this show truly has gotten a lot better since. They've had their rough spots, but this last half season? I've said that the Ghost Rider arc was good because of Ghost Rider, but this one has been ten times better. Female villain! Female heroes!! This episode centered around the women! All we need is Bobbi to show back up and then I'll be the happiest fan ever. 

What's interesting is in the Framework, HYDRA seems to have taken over that world. A mistake on Aida's part, or intentional? It does seem like Aida has made a few mistakes with her tweaks. Daisy's boyfriend being Ward instead of Lincoln, for one. I guess in the Framework, she will probably be called Skye again because of the world seems to have reverted back to before Daisy was Daisy, as a What If HYDRA Ruled The World scenario. So in that sense, I totally get Ward being back instead of Lincoln. I guess Skye will also be evil like Ward if they're in a relationship and work probably at HYDRA. That picture of them seems too happy, too planted to make it seem like Ward could indeed be a good guy in this world. I also wonder if this Skye will have Inhuman powers or not. If she does, then there'll be clashing with her and Coulson, who is a professor at the Academy, and he teaches about being anti-Inhuman.

That's another thing about Coulson. What is his biggest regret that has brought him to be a professor? It seems quite opposite, which is why I think it won't be too hard for Daisy to bring the team out of this fake reality. I mean, it's clearly an arc that will take several episodes, but it'll be about getting them all to snap out of their Framework trance. Mack has his daughter back, but doesn't seem to be working at SHIELD or HYDRA or anywhere. I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop with him. Fitz seems to be a rich tech guy and he has a lady that's not Simmons. I'm kind of waiting for it to be Aida, but I'd laugh if it was Bobbi. Simmons is apparently dead, which is...well, that's odd. I doubt there'll be no Simmons to help Daisy with the others so what, is she going to crawl out of the ground when the show comes back? 

Some really, really strong moments this episode. The Simmons/Fitz scene and the Daisy/Simmons scene were both really strong, the best in the entire season for sure. And the fight sequences were good. 

Even if this show does end this season, I'm glad we got strong female moments. 

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Wow. This show is firing on all cylinders, what a great hour. I'm going to have to rewatch to make sure I got all the finer points. But one thing occurred to me: I wonder if Ward's presence is going to be the fly in the ointment that makes Daisy realize that the Framework is not "real." As it is she and Jemma entered it with only a theoretical understanding of how it worked, they haven't heard Radcliffe monologuing about the "world without regret" blah blah blah. I fully expect them to be taken in by the seeming "reality" around them. (Well, Daisy at least. What up with that JS tombstone?!) But I was shocked to see Ward in that pic with Daisy, I was so thankful to stop thinking about his abusive ass that I totally forgot she'd had feelings for him. And they've leaned on the beat of her feelings of guilt over Lincoln's death.

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What is his biggest regret that has brought him to be a professor?

I didn’t quite catch it but he mentioned it when talking to LMD May, it was something like joining operations or something.  I’m getting a very It’s a Wonderful Life or Sliding Doors vibe from the Framework.  Such that fixing one regret, changing just one thing in each person’s life had a ripple effect and changed everything.  Which should lead to some awesome WTF??!!  moments for Daisy.  I can't believe that Framework Simmons is dead.  Wonder what will happen when real Simmons joins.  She said, getting killed in the framework means being killed in real life.  Will Simmons joining mean she comes back to life in the framework (doubt they'd kill real Simmons) and has to dig her way out of the grave like Buffy?  Does she just get rejected and is unable to join Daisy?  Or, does the entire framework shift to accommodate a live Simmons?

Loved how LMD May went out and took LMD Coulson with her.  That was really, truly something the real May would do.

Love seeing Daisy and Simmons working together, they are an awesome pair and always have been.  I also think Elizabeth Henstridge did an incredible job showing how completely shredded Simmons was at having to “kill” Fitz.  Intellectually knowing it’s not Fitz wouldn’t help with the visceral feeling of killing someone you love like that.

Lastly, I’m very happy to have a Zach McGowan on my screen again (definitely miss him from Black Sails) and hope we get to see more of him when this picks up in April.  Standing in a room then looking behind you to see your severed head on a table is soooo creepy.

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That was fantastic!  If AoS was this good in S1, it would be one of ABC's brightest lights right now instead of circling cancellation territory.  

Everybody on the show has something important to do, there are no weak links, and every pairing the try works better than expected.  What a show!  Who's the woman with Fitz in the Framework?  Is it Aida?  (If it were me, it'd definitely be Aida! LOL)

I always hated Grant Ward, but the actor who plays him appeared at Dragon*Con last year, and he was great; very funny and charming.  Now, I'm not so upset to see him return to show, if only for a little while.

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Didn't the detector say 4 LMDs were entering when Coulson, Mace, Mack, and DAISY were walking through the base? Is Mack just so big, he registered as two?

I agree that this was a really good episode but I think it missed an opportunity to jump to great if Daisy and Jemma had to work independently a bit longer not aware that the other one was also not an LMD. Seeing that some of the LMDs were being taken down and knowing that one of the team was working with them, but they weren't sure who would have added more tension. 

But the episode was jam packed as it was. So I get it.

I do wonder how well the Framework can balance while trying to meet everyone's non-regrets to develop a single world for everyone. Maybe Fitz deep down has a regret about rescuing Jemma from the other world, but surely Jemma doesn't regret being murdered.

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This was a fantastic episode.  I have been bored by the LMD storyline, but this episode was great.  Loved just about everything about it.  The paranoia of Fitz and Simmons, the paranoia of Daisy and Simmons, the hunt for them, getting agents over to their side.  The super cool Quakeballs that Daisy manifested in her hands.  The alternate reality of the Framework.

I have never despised Brett Dalton.  I think the writing for his character was not so good.  In Season 1 he was the straight laced goody two shoes agent.  Then he morphed into this Hydra and Hive character and I guess I'm still not really sure why.  They could have easily just brought in another character to play Hive.  I think the actor did the best with what he had.  I am interested to see how he plays in the Framework.

30 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

Didn't the detector say 4 LMDs were entering when Coulson, Mace, Mack, and DAISY were walking through the base? Is Mack just so big, he registered as two?

Yes, I am confused about this too.  The last scene of last week's episode showed the detector beeping and saying 4 LMDs detected when those 4 walked into the base.  I guess they are now going to handwave and say it must have picked up Fitz who was looking at the screen.  I didn't think the detector worked that way.

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1 hour ago, Absurda said:

I’m getting a very It’s a Wonderful Life or Sliding Doors vibe from the Framework. 

Since John Hannah was in Sliding Doors let's go with that one.

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2 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

That was fantastic!  If AoS was this good in S1, it would be one of ABC's brightest lights right now instead of circling cancellation territory.  

Everybody on the show has something important to do, there are no weak links, and every pairing the try works better than expected.  What a show!  Who's the woman with Fitz in the Framework?  Is it Aida?  (If it were me, it'd definitely be Aida! LOL)

I always hated Grant Ward, but the actor who plays him appeared at Dragon*Con last year, and he was great; very funny and charming.  Now, I'm not so upset to see him return to show, if only for a little while.

I definitely think its Aida in the car with Fitz, not the woman Aida is based off of. She seemed to be sweet on Fitz before she was turned into a murderbot. 

I really hope we get to see all sort of first season characters again. Imagine who is dead who could be alive! I'm nervous they're going to bring back Ward fulltime as an AI character. For all the crap he pulled, I really did like boy-scout Ward.

I plan on watching the episode again tonight. I haven't rewatched an episode in ages. I hope the Powers that be take notice if how many fans loved the Girl Power that was on fire tonight. Bring back the real May AND Bobbi so the ladies can balance out all of the men on this show.

Edited to say, I dont know if they could get back Hunter and Bobbi to the show, but you would think in such a dire situation, you would be calling EVERYONE to help against AI's. The Koenigs, their sister, Bobbi and Hunter, other Inhumans to protect Daisy and Jemma, or even to go in with them. But I know, if wishes were unicorns.

Edited by SnoGirl
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3 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

Didn't the detector say 4 LMDs were entering when Coulson, Mace, Mack, and DAISY were walking through the base? Is Mack just so big, he registered as two?

 

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, I am confused about this too.  The last scene of last week's episode showed the detector beeping and saying 4 LMDs detected when those 4 walked into the base.  I guess they are now going to handwave and say it must have picked up Fitz who was looking at the screen.  I didn't think the detector worked that way.

No, the detector said 4 LMDs detected. We thought (and with the visual image, were meant to think) that the detector was live. No, the detector meant that it had detected 4 LMDs at the time Simmons called up the data. Fitz, Mac, Mace and Coulson.

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Oh my God that was AWESOME! This whole arc is almost worth it for this episode alone! And that crazy ass ending! Mack has a family! Coulson is a racist teacher! Daisy is with a now alive Ward! Fitz is rich! Jemma is Dead! May is with freaking HYDRA! I need it to be April NOW!

Huge props to all the actors, everyone was in top form today, especially Chloe, Ian, and Elizabeth.  The "who are you?!?!" scenes were all super intense and amazingly acted. I did kind of giggle when roboFitz was like "of course it would be us!" because...yeah its true. Something is always happening to poor FitzSimmons. Its always "Fitz brain damaged" or "Jemma gets sucked into another dimension" or "Fitz is replaced by a robot" or something.

Poor LMD May, but at least she went out on her own terms, doing what the human May would have done. Definitely a better end for her then when she "died" originally. I was also getting hard core Battlestar Galactica vibes here. I was so waiting for Daisy to start screaming "You fracking toasters!" when she blasted LMD Coulson and Mack away.

I actually felt a little bad for Radcliff. Yeah, he was a bad guy, but he got screwed up by the Darkholm I think, and he did seem to have good intentions and tried not to hurt people when he didn't have to, even if the ways he tried to help people were pretty messed up. The actor is just that likable.

This LMD arc has been kind of meh for me (not bad or anything, but weighed down by a pretty by the numbers robot plot, the May/Coulson romance that came out of nowhere, and that boring Russian villain guy) compared to the Ghost Rider arc, but this was a great episode, and its made me super pumped for what comes next!

Edited by tennisgurl
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4 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

Maybe Fitz deep down has a regret about rescuing Jemma from the other world, but surely Jemma doesn't regret being murdered.

Jemma herself must feel a ton of survivor guilt. There were TWO instances where two men sacrificed themselves and saved her. Fitz gave her the oxygen mask at the bottom of the ocean. He survived, but was in a coma for weeks and then later went through months of rehabilitation. Will sacrificed himself on the planet where Hive was banished, so Jemma could get away. AND that indirectly led the team going back to that planet, which ultimately resulted in Hive brought back to Earth.

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43 minutes ago, djinn said:

Jemma herself must feel a ton of survivor guilt. There were TWO instances where two men sacrificed themselves and saved her. Fitz gave her the oxygen mask at the bottom of the ocean. He survived, but was in a coma for weeks and then later went through months of rehabilitation. Will sacrificed himself on the planet where Hive was banished, so Jemma could get away. AND that indirectly led the team going back to that planet, which ultimately resulted in Hive brought back to Earth.

Good Take! Man, if it turns out that Simmons big regret is being alive for being partially responsible for unleashing Hive on the planet, that is fucking dark.

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I have never despised Brett Dalton.  I think the writing for his character was not so good.  In Season 1 he was the straight laced goody two shoes agent.  Then he morphed into this Hydra and Hive character and I guess I'm still not really sure why.  They could have easily just brought in another character to play Hive.  I think the actor did the best with what he had.  I am interested to see how he plays in the Framework.

Yes, I am confused about this too.  The last scene of last week's episode showed the detector beeping and saying 4 LMDs detected when those 4 walked into the base.  I guess they are now going to handwave and say it must have picked up Fitz who was looking at the screen.  I didn't think the detector worked that way.

I've never hated Brett, either.  For that matter, I'm one of the few who never hated Ward.  I actually thought he was much more interesting and entertaining as a villain than he was as a hero.  But I am intrigued by seeing how he is in the Framework and hope that Brett hasn't lost his charm.

As for the detector, I remember that Fitz and Simmons got back to the base first.  Maybe the detector got Fitz first, but then kept its count at one till Coulson, Daisy, Mack, and Mace entered, and then shot up to four, registering Coulson, Mack, and Mace, but not Daisy.  Simmons just assumed that Daisy was one of the four and didn't even think of Fitz.  If that makes any sense, that's the best I can offer.

2 hours ago, benteen said:

This virtual world might be an opportunity to bring back Bobbi and Hunter.

Nick and Adrianne have both said they're more than willing to come back since the spinoff didn't work out, so I don't know why the showrunners are dragging their feet here.

Edited by Michel
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Loved it. It was crazy, it was hilarious, it was "WARD IS HYDRA" v 2.0.

22 hours ago, Jediknight said:

May is in Hydra in the framework?  What in the butt?  She's happy in there? 

I didn't get that. Is she really, underneath it all, an evil power-monger? Before, she had been back in Lebanon or Morocco or wherever, saving the girl she had to kill way back when. Why is her fantasy now to be in Hydra?

21 hours ago, RandomMe said:

The rest of this is BONKERS and hopefully I will be emotionally prepared for Marvel's "The Matrix" by the beginning of April.

I look forward to seeing whether Daisy and Simmons will be able to escape the Matrix Framework.

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This has got to be up there with the best episode of this show. One very minor nitpick: they had to find a way to bring back Ward. They just cannot help themselves. Anyhow, on to the good stuff, I'm sure has already been mentioned. Daisy fight with Mace, and then Mack and Coulson was very good. Probably tied for my favorite part was Simmons and Fitz trying to figure out who was who, and May having her moment. Geeze that was fun. And Hydra?! Did not see that coming.

Also, I knew Aida was going to take over! That's also right up there with the good scenes, Radcliffe's death scene. I am really loving how the Darkhold has changed Aida. So comic booky and awesome.

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