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S02.E12: Love Handles

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Very curious about the conversation that Chloe had with Dr. Evil before he sliced his throat (Seriously? Girl, shoot him in the shoulder when he tries that!!). All that "you'll find out soon enough". What was he referring to? Will Chloe have to make a choice or Luci? Or was he just talking about her dying? 

I know I saw the doctor in next week's previews so obviously he is coming back, but is it just to save Chloe at Luci's insistence or is the doctor not all that he seems (or is he more than he seems)?

"Douche" "Dick" - Bwahahahaha!!

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5 hours ago, gwhh said:

I wonder what Chloe was doing in her sleep that maze found so amazing?...Which means it was very out of the ordinary even for maze. What do you think she was doing while maze was watching her?

Of course I don't know what the intention was, the I assumed the issue was more that perhaps Chloe was talking in her sleep, so to Maze it was obvious what the dream was about from that.

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19 hours ago, Mojeaux said:

Color me third. That IS where I figured out it was a dream.

Although I WAS screaming at the TV "Ooooh, no, don't go there, please let it be a dream!!!" For whatever reason, because I am a fervent 'shipper, I cannot get behind this pairing. They work on a lovers-who-never-make-love level, not artificially fighting UST, not deliberately holding back, not being artificially kept apart, but some acknowledgment that having sex will damage the relationship irreparably.

I am not a fervent shipper as a rule but I am also in the side of the sandbox that wishes they wouldn't push these two together so quickly.

I've recently been spoiled for a excellent portrayal of a "will they, won't they" scenario, which managed to both fulfill shipper hearts without having to push the characters actively into bed.  The relationship between the two leads on the Australian produced "Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries" is (IMO) an excellent example of how to write this sort of scenario, particularly with an eye towards awareness that actually sailing the ship would result in a major characterization shift for at least one of the characters.  The relationship still manages to be incredibly intimate and there is no doubt of the strength of it but the reservation is organically designed and for the most part organically maintained, AND actually ramps up the intimacy.

I have a lot of faith in the Lucifer writers, but I kinda wish they would watch MFMM as an example of how to write this kind of 'on edge' balancing act.  Because I agree with other posters, the way the characters are now, Lucifer would have to undergo a major characterization shift if he gets into a serious romantic relationship with Chloe.

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Bottom line is, I'm much more entertained by Tom Ellis dropping double entendres and hitting on everyone that's vaguely attractive than I am by him earnestly mooning over Lauren German's character. Do Not Want a sappy love story, even a well written one.

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They're getting darker and darker with this show, and I can't say I'm a big fan of it. Even my completely not squeamish husband recoiled at the garbage disposal scene.

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1 hour ago, Ciarrai said:

They're getting darker and darker with this show, and I can't say I'm a big fan of it. Even my completely not squeamish husband recoiled at the garbage disposal scene.

But they absolutely cannot show Lucifer actually smoking a cigarette.

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9 hours ago, storyskip said:

I've recently been spoiled for a excellent portrayal of a "will they, won't they" scenario, which managed to both fulfill shipper hearts without having to push the characters actively into bed.  The relationship between the two leads on the Australian produced "Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries" is (IMO) an excellent example of how to write this sort of scenario, particularly with an eye towards awareness that actually sailing the ship would result in a major characterization shift for at least one of the characters

As another total fan of Miss Fisher (First I did a binge watch, and then I did a binge read- good local library had all the Miss Fisher and I could read them in order), I agree. 

You might want to compare the way the Miss Fisher lived in the books and then on TV.  Both are totally plausible and should be studied by everyone who is doing a "made for TV version" of any other media.  

I guess what I want is stylish substance.  Not hard to ask for, eh?  They've got good to great characters in Lucifer, but they need to grow them this year and add layers of complexity to their actions. 

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8 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Bottom line is, I'm much more entertained by Tom Ellis dropping double entendres and hitting on everyone that's vaguely attractive than I am by him earnestly mooning over Lauren German's character. Do Not Want a sappy love story, even a well written one.

That's my main problem. I don't want the devil falling in love, not specifically with Chloe but with any mortal. I wish they could let a playboy stay a playboy. Especially one that isn't actually human. I don't like this Lucifer, the one trying to be "worthy" of some mortal's love. This is not the show I was hoping it was going to be and it makes me very sad.

My excitement for this show crashed hard. Between Lucifer trying to boyfriend himself up and Mother still being around I just don't have the love for the show I once had and would much rather watch a threes company style spin off with Dr. Linda taking in both Maze and Amendiel. I'm even willing to keep Dan around. I'd take Dan over Lovestruck Lucy anyday.

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It seems to me that the writers are setting up a redemption arc for Lucifer with the Chloe/Lucifer romance being a big part of that.  What really struck me with this week's episode was Lucifer saving the lives of two mortals.  Other than Chloe herself, have we seen him actually save human lives prior to this episode?  I think Dad's plan (via the writers) is to redeem His favorite son with Mom ending up being the keeper of the keys to hell.   It could end up in Amenadiel's lap but my money's on Mom.

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2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

It seems to me that the writers are setting up a redemption arc for Lucifer with the Chloe/Lucifer romance being a big part of that.  What really struck me with this week's episode was Lucifer saving the lives of two mortals.  Other than Chloe herself, have we seen him actually save human lives prior to this episode?  I think Dad's plan (via the writers) is to redeem His favorite son with Mom ending up being the keeper of the keys to hell.   It could end up in Amenadiel's lap but my money's on Mom.

Interesting theory about Mom.

I've been considering a redemtion arc and that Lucifer might realize that he likes certain aspects of Hell, like making people pay (as they touched that in one of the episodes) or that Amenadiel would switch places with Lucifer, but that Mom ends up in Lucifer's place, that could be interesting.

 

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

My excitement for this show crashed hard. Between Lucifer trying to boyfriend himself up and Mother still being around I just don't have the love for the show I once had and would much rather watch a threes company style spin off with Dr. Linda taking in both Maze and Amendiel. I'm even willing to keep Dan around. I'd take Dan over Lovestruck Lucy anyday.

I had actually hoped that they would go the untraditional route and have Dan and Chloe get back together. Lucifer could have helped, realizing he cares deeply for Chloe but that she's in love with Dan. I think that would have been a lot better than a romance since it would automatically have meant that Lucifer had to step aside for someone he cares about and would have had to understand the meaning of sacrifice and all that. I also think it would have given them a lot more possibilities for the characters.

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7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I had actually hoped that they would go the untraditional route and have Dan and Chloe get back together. Lucifer could have helped, realizing he cares deeply for Chloe but that she's in love with Dan. I think that would have been a lot better than a romance since it would automatically have meant that Lucifer had to step aside for someone he cares about and would have had to understand the meaning of sacrifice and all that. I also think it would have given them a lot more possibilities for the characters.

That would have been an amazing story. Oh the possibilities. Instead, they turned this into Supernatural Castle. UGH I hate when the "love of a good woman" redeems a man. Especially when that man is actually an angel, fallen, but still.

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7 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That would have been an amazing story. Oh the possibilities. Instead, they turned this into Supernatural Castle. UGH I hate when the "love of a good woman" redeems a man. Especially when that man is actually an angel, fallen, but still.

Lucifer's relationship with Chloe is only part of his redemption.  Dr. Linda is a big part of it.  Father Frank was part of it.  Lucifer's work with the LAPD is part of it.  Several of the cases of the week have been part of it.  It's nowhere near as simple as just finding the "love of a good woman."  JMHO, of course.

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He is being changed by Dr. Linda, Father Frank, etc, but he isn't trying to change for them. He is trying to be "boyfriend" material for Chloe because she is the one making him think he has to change. Everything/everyone else has just been changing him, which I liked, it was growth, it was subtle, it was natural. Now he's in love with Chloe and forcing himself to change to fit what he thinks she wants. That, for me, is taking away everything that makes him fun and sexy and dangerous. Okay, that's what I'm really bothered by, I just don't find lovesick Lucy sexy at all and that is KILLING me!!!!

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On 1/25/2017 at 4:05 PM, gwhh said:

I wonder what Chloe was doing in her sleep that maze found so amazing? I am taking that was not your average woman wet dream. More like a tsunami of a wet dream. Enough at least to make maze stop and watch. Which means it was very out of the ordinary even for maze. What do you think she was doing while maze was watching her?

Apparently she was acting out her dream. Because Maze asked what she was doing when Chloe grabbed onto Lucifer's devil horns. I'd imagine that would look strange to an observer. Lol. 

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18 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Apparently she was acting out her dream. Because Maze asked what she was doing when Chloe grabbed onto Lucifer's devil horns. I'd imagine that would look strange to an observer. Lol. 

No one has commented yet than when Chloe grabs Lucifer's horns she is not grossed out but rather has a slight grin. Since this is her fantasy it seems pretty clear that she knows Lucifer is, in fact, the devil and that she can handle it. Chloe muttered something as Maze woke her up that made me think that is not the first time Choe has had this dream.

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2 hours ago, Arthur said:

No one has commented yet than when Chloe grabs Lucifer's horns she is not grossed out but rather has a slight grin. Since this is her fantasy it seems pretty clear that she knows Lucifer is, in fact, the devil and that she can handle it. Chloe muttered something as Maze woke her up that made me think that is not the first time Choe has had this dream.

Subconscisons knowledge verses conscisons mind non-admitting knowledge to oneself or other.  

I notice that grin during the actually tv show when it was first on.  I guess ladies really do love the bad boys.  

Yeah, that would look odd even to maze.  

I wonder if he REALLY does have horns??

Edited by gwhh

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4 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Subconscisons knowledge verses conscisons mind non-admitting knowledge to oneself or other.  

I notice that grin during the actually tv show when it was first on.  I guess ladies really do love the bad boys.  

Yeah, that would look odd even to maze.  

I wonder if he REALLY does have horns??

He didn't when he showed his face to Linda.

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6 minutes ago, Ciarrai said:

He didn't when he showed his face to Linda.

He also didn't have horns when he was in Hell back in the S1 finale. I think (and hope) that this is just because the Devil is always portrayed with horns, so in Chloe's mind that is what he had if he were the devil and not because he actually has horns.

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I'd personally get tired of slick playboy Lucifer week after week. Or even deliciously nasty Maze week after week. I've enjoyed their development due to God putting Chloe in their path. (Because Lucifer is not the only one changing due to Chloe-God's plan.) 

I'm also a fan of watching how love can change people. Because it can. Lucifer isn't changing because he's trying to win the love/approval of Chloe, but because his feelings/love for her are causing the change. Same with Maze and her development of "feelings" for Amen, Linda, Trixie, Chloe, etc. Heck, same with Amen and his "feelings" for Maze. God is up to something and they're completely caught up in it big time even if they haven't realized it yet. And I'm enjoying the ride as the show makes its way to the reveal.

I highly doubt they're going to dive into a show solely devoted to a Lucifer and Chloe romance. There are many layers and paths and twists the show can take as Lucifer deals with his feelings for Chloe, she deals with her feelings for him, and the mystery of God's plan is revealed. Nevermind the impact this will have on the other characters. Whom I all love with the exception of Mum, sadly. I would even welcome a return of Uriel.

I think TPTB have played it as well as they can not knowing the future of their show past season 1 and now season 2. As part of a prime time network show you need to have a couple or two for fans to ship as well as cool characters individually. Even if you the show runner are against it, the network will usually demand it. Thankfully they haven't rushed it considering the short shelf life of shows these days, and they've layered it from fascination to friendship to (possible) love without sacrificing storylines and the other characters. Quite frankly I think Tom Ellis' best scenes have been when Lucifer deals with his emotions regarding Chloe. (As well as his excellent episode with the priest.) And a big Hell Yeah that the woman the show drew up to throw in his path is not some cardboard hot model-looking cool character. Lauren German is beautiful and lively IRL but I love how they've allowed her to play Chloe as an awkward and stiff tomboy who is smart and "good" without being boring. It makes it that much more compelling for Lucifer to be drawn to her while making more sense to us now why he is drawn to someone so different.

I think the show is writing this very well and kudos to them. It's been a great combination of fantasy/police procedural with a lot of heart and hilarity to balance the darkness, and has character/actor chemistry across the board. So I have faith they'll be able to successfully weave in "romance" just as seamlessly.

Edited by Sonoma
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On 1/25/2017 at 1:18 PM, storyskip said:

The scars WERE there.  Like noted above, they show Chloe touching them, and before the scene skewed into obvious dream sequence territory I was thinking the scars were going to be what broke the sexual tension.  Either with Chloe getting distracted by them and asking or Lucifer freezing up the way he did when she tried to touch them previously.

 

On 1/25/2017 at 3:24 AM, quirkygal said:

The scars were there. I remember being impressed with how they looked like feathers embedded in the skin .

 

Also, did anyone else catch what Chloe said when she woke up from the dream? I thought she said something like, "always the same" in reference to Lucifer having horns. I took this to mean that this was not the first sexy time dream and that her subconscious has been piecing together the whole really the devil thing from the beginning. 

Lucifer is an Angel. A fallen Angel but still an Angel. I figured he put some kind of mental whammy on them to make them compliant.

I rewatched this scene many, many times (purely for research purposes, of course) and it does look like the scars are missing during the very first part of the scene when he has her on the piano.  But yes, they are definitely there when they are on the sofa and Chloe touches them.  To me, that little part was as intimate as the rest of the scene because he was allowing her to touch his scars.  Plus Lucifer exhales right as touches them, adding an extra layer that made that part even sexier.  That whole scene was hot as hell ... pun very much intended!

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Do professors really save their only copy of their magnum opus on their desktop, instead of in Google Drive, or perhaps emailing themselves the latest version? Even Microsoft now lets you save Word documents in their cloud.

That was the worst choice of all.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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I think the crash/fire was long enough ago to  pre-date cloud-type backups. Or he was worried that clouds aren't that secure (which is why I still don't use'em).  Still, he could have made private backups (which is what I actually do - used to be on disc, now on those fab thumb drives).

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8 hours ago, kassygreene said:

I think the crash/fire was long enough ago to  pre-date cloud-type backups. Or he was worried that clouds aren't that secure (which is why I still don't use'em).  Still, he could have made private backups (which is what I actually do - used to be on disc, now on those fab thumb drives).

Fair enough, but even before the Cloud, when I, too, used a disc or thumb drive, I always emailed myself anything I couldn't afford to lose as a backup.  I still do. Yeah, someone could hack my email and steal my thesis, but I could also lose a thumb drive/ it could become corrupted, so I'd rather take my chances with email and not kick myself after the fact for my carelessness/bad luck with the thumb drive.

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even when I used to hand write my stories I made sure to constantly make copies. It is a lesson I learned in high school when I gave my teacher one of my stories to read and she "lost it". I was devastated and vowed to always have copies of anything I care about. I have stuff in skydrive, on my computer, a second copy on a flashdrive and sometimes I still print out a hard copy...just in case. Yeah, I'm paranoid. But I will also always have my important documents.

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On 1/28/2017 at 5:57 PM, Sonoma said:

I personally would get tired of slick playboy Lucifer week after week. Or even deliciously nasty Maze week after week. I've enjoyed their development due to God putting Chloe in their path. (Because Lucifer is not the only one changing due to Chloe-God's plan.) 

.....................

I highly doubt they are going to dive into a show solely devoted to a Lucifer and Chloe romance. There are many layers and paths and twists the show can take as Lucifer deals with his feelings for Chloe, she deals with her feelings for him, and the mystery of God's plan is revealed. Nevermind the impact this will have on the other characters. Whom I all love with the exception of Mum, sadly. I would even welcome a return of Uriel.

 

Careful what you wish for..................

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On 1/25/2017 at 6:20 PM, Gigi43 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about  the bar happening to have a picture of Amenadiel and Penelope  all these years later. I know she's a c-list actress and maybe Dad wanted proof but it seems a bit too in place. 

It seemed clear to me that Charlotte picked the bar, so she picked the place where Amenadiel and Chloe's mom met.  And for all we know, she slipped the photo up there to make sure Lucifer saw it, in case of complications, such as actually happened.  She's not God, but she's been at this whole manipulation thing a long time too.  

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