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S09.E05: Shannon & Ray

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Paranormal entities frighten a woman into severe hoarding that has forced her and her children into a shelter. Also: a San Francisco man faces criminal charges after his hoard caught fire and nearly burnt down city block.

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7 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

There is a fifteen minute preview of this episode that my Directv picked up and recorded.  Definitely not for the faint of heart or stomach.

Agreed. I physically gagged at one point and I'm not faint of stomach.

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Please tell me, is there animal abuse?  We need to have like a flag in each episode that warns of animal abuse so I won't watch it (I'm that person that dives across the room to change the channel when an ASPCA commercial comes on).

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1 hour ago, notyrmomma said:

Please tell me, is there animal abuse?  We need to have like a flag in each episode that warns of animal abuse so I won't watch it (I'm that person that dives across the room to change the channel when an ASPCA commercial comes on).

I didn't see any. 

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8 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

Please tell me, is there animal abuse?  We need to have like a flag in each episode that warns of animal abuse so I won't watch it (I'm that person that dives across the room to change the channel when an ASPCA commercial comes on).

Are you OK with urine abuse?  That's the real question here, urgh...

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On 1/12/2017 at 5:42 AM, notyrmomma said:

Please tell me, is there animal abuse?  We need to have like a flag in each episode that warns of animal abuse so I won't watch it (I'm that person that dives across the room to change the channel when an ASPCA commercial comes on).

The paranormal idiot did have children who were forced to live in a shelter with her.  To me, child abuse tops everything.  I didn't watch much beyond that hocus pocus nonsense, so hopefully those children were taken care of.  Though apparently, that's not a priority with most social services.  

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"Shadow people," "dark energy," "cat skull friend with baby rat offerings," vacuum cleaner  dust hoard... writing in blood and salt fences... obviously Shannon was delusional, maybe even paranoid delusional - but what was more terrifying is that her mother and her uncle also professed belief in all this nonsense.  And of course... the children believe these delusions because they are being reinforced by multiple adults.  I find it hard to believe they let her stay for so long in a domestic violence shelter because there was no domestic partner, therefore no domestic violence (except maybe for abuse of the children with the occult), but maybe they felt sorry for her psychiatric condition.

Zazio wouldn't confront her with her occult paranoid delusions but rather she worked with them.  OK, maybe in the short term to get the house cleaned but I hope this will be addressed in some serious medical psychiatric follow up. 

The Wizard of Ogden LOL cracked me up, playing bad flute, blowing cigarette smoke through a bamboo pole and fake hocus pocus gourd with a "new" hole in it - it was a pretty comical "exorcism" and Shannon was pretty nonplussed with the whole procedure.  The demons were probably only mildly amused or puzzled.  Shannon smoked like a chimney herself, it should have kept the demons away!

I have zero expectations that her clean, un-demoned house will last.

That San Fran row house, is it worth 2 million in this half-rotten, half-burned condition?  How did Ray even acquire this?  How did they know they were drinking juice or bottles of urine?  So many questions.

In my notes I wrote "Tony doesn't look well" and "that urine sure is cloudy, someone has a raging case of pyelonephritis" so no surprise for me about his demise.

The septic cleaning gave me the dry heaves... especially the toilet... OMG... gack!!! argh! uhgggg!

Ray was pretty outgoing... there is a small chance he won't re-hoard.

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I was wondering about the shelter stay as well. In fact, it ticked me off because she was taking space from an actual victim. 

Did they mention where the father was? How did Social Services not step in? 

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Yeah, I thought Tony looked pretty bad when he was laying in bed before the clean up.  I was happy to see the neighbors were so supporting of Ray.  

I wonder how much Shannon's TBI caused her thinking to be confused. Hope she uses the after service therapy so she can be a more stable person and parent. 

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I was extremely glad to see the words "mental health care" in Shannon's ending BSOJ. Hoarding and house demons are just the surface of Shannon's issues, sadly. The oldest kid broke my heart...it seemed as though she didn't really believe in the demons when Zaz asked her, but was saying she did to make mom look less crazy. She kept saying stuff like, "Well, my mom says that the salt keeps the demons away," and such...never that she herself believed in it, until directly asked. There is hope for her, I think.

On the bright side, Friend was the most loved and cherished animal remains the show has ever seen! Sailcat is jealous...Friend was living it up! Friend's burial ceremony did make the crazy cat lady in me a bit misty-eyed, though. I can't really put my finger on it. The vacuum dust ceremony, though, grossed me out, as the micro bits of whatever billowed all around.

So, we finally got to see what the Tanner abode would look like all hoarded up. I knew Tony was not long for this world the moment they showed him nodding off surrounded by the hoard. Ray seemed like a genuinely nice man, and the type of person that if you met in passing, you'd have no idea of the horror of hoard in his house. He was one of the more personable hoarders we've seen on the show. I do feel hopeful for Ray's success, but that house is in rough, rough shape, and much will have to be gutted for it to be saved.

Edited by kittyglitter · Reason: M != N
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I'm confused about Friend's burial. Was Friend always dead, or did he die during clean-up? I don't remember that being addressed. 

I know my questions are ridiculous, but I am oddly curious what the rationale was for the burial. 

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Just now, CouchTater said:

I'm confused about Friend's burial. Was Friend always dead, or did he die during clean-up? I don't remember that being addressed. 

I know my questions are ridiculous, but I am oddly curious what the rationale was for the burial. 

Always dead. She found Friend as a skull.

To her, he was alive, I guess?

She said no one talked to her for 90 days. Did her mom and uncle really never talk to her after a TBI? Or do they not count because they're family? Or is it in her head?

I hope she keeps getting therapy.

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2 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

I'm confused about Friend's burial. Was Friend always dead, or did he die during clean-up? I don't remember that being addressed. 

I know my questions are ridiculous, but I am oddly curious what the rationale was for the burial. 

From what I understood, Friend was already a mere skull when she found Friend in the woods or something, and Friend became her only...friend, I guess, when she was going through the concussion/demons/whatever else.  

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I feel like it was irresponsible of the show to work with Shannon. When you are talking about demons, dark energies, and good and bad vacuum dust, you are WAY beyond the normal hoarder. 

 

And fuck that "wizard" - just a charlatan taking advantage of a mentally ill woman.

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2 minutes ago, Court said:

Always dead. She found Friend as a skull.

To her, he was alive, I guess?

She said no one talked to her for 90 days. Did her mom and uncle really never talk to her after a TBI? Or do they not count because they're family? Or is it in her head?

I hope she keeps getting therapy.

I knew Friend was a skull, but since he talked to her, she collected bones for him, etc (was Friend male?) I assumed he was "alive."  The burial threw me. 

I was also confused about no one talking to her after her accident. The whole situation seemed unreal and unexplained.

i was oddly unaffected by both Shannon and Ray. Ray seemed manic and goofy. I wonder how he afforded the property taxes on that house. 

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4 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

I knew Friend was a skull, but since he talked to her, she collected bones for him, etc (was Friend male?) I assumed he was "alive."  The burial threw me. 

I was also confused about no one talking to her after her accident. The whole situation seemed unreal and unexplained.

i was oddly unaffected by both Shannon and Ray. Ray seemed manic and goofy. I wonder how he afforded the property taxes on that house. 

I just keep coming up with more questions. She said he, so I guess Friend was a male. I wonder if she was mentally ill before the TBI. Or did the TBI exacerbate it? 

Ray probably is manic depressive and after the loss of his brother he was manic. I liked him.

I think I was supposed to feel sorry for Shannon but I didn't. I felt bad for her kids but that was it.

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19 minutes ago, Diamond Dog said:

 You got to be a bit of a cuckoo bird to do your business on top of newspaper, over a crap-filled toilet, next to a urine, and crap filled tub, and then walk it over to the neighbour's garbage can.  I mean, hello? 

And where did he wash his hands after dropping it in the trash??? Yikes!

I liked this episode because I enjoy the filthy hoarders the most. I wonder if his neighbors realized he had a large tub filled with urine in his house. Maybe they wouldn't have been so friendly if they did.

I also wonder why the house was not condemned, and how he affords the property taxes.

Anyhoo....

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Right, so Shannon talks to "Friend" and Dr, Zaz has no issue with leaving minor children with a woman who talks to a cat's skull and makes the kids live in a hoard. I mean for fucking really this isn't a mandatory child service report?

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8 minutes ago, Diamond Dog said:

His neigbours will know about the poop house thanks to TLC.  They'll wish they never shook his hand.  

Yeah, I noticed that woman who gave him the flowers seemed to be pushing a baby stroller.....

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During this and Overload, the promos kept saying "Season Finale next Sunday". So six episodes and out? Wah!

I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain Shannon was using paint, not blood. Besides, blood usually dries out to brown. 

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After reading here and then watching the episode, I found myself liking Shannon a lot more than I thought I would. You guys didn't say anything bad, just the preconceived notions. I really liked her, and I got what she was doing with the dust and stuff. I liked her a lot. I kept forgetting she had children though. She needs serious help and friendship and love. And I hope she finds it, I really do. 

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A few thoughts - Add me to those who thought Ray's brother looked a bit off when the doctor popped in to say 'hi.'  I'm sorry he passed away.

How the heck much do you have to hoard to have your house come apart at the seams? I understand floors rotting from under wet stuff or beams bowing from the weight, but actually to push your walls out??? Wow.

Was Shannon's thinking a function of her strokes? I've known a couple of people who had strokes, including a close cousin, and never heard of them falling over the deep end like this, but who knows. It was a little scary to think you could be fine one day and talking to cat skulls the next. 

When the wizard said he was going to "blow smoke," I couldn't help but say aloud, 'Yes, you are." What a mess. I guess they had to do something so Shannon would feel comfortable in the house, but I hope she gets additional therapy to deal with this - not just for her sake (I don't really care), but for her children's.  I can't imagine growing up with that atmosphere in the house.

I've been sick and was home for a week and a half. I could hardly breathe laying down, so I spent most of the time propped up in front of the computer. I got tired of watching shows on YouTube because they have to do so much to the video or audio to avoid the copyright stuff, it's hard to enjoy the show, so I actually downloaded a bunch of Hoarders, Hotel Impossible, and Animal Hoarders (remember that one?). OMGoodness. I've been watching Hoarders from a distance for years. Seeing that stuff close up was freaky. No wonder people get squicked out by this show. I just thought they were delicate flowers. : ) It makes a difference when the roaches, rats, and poop are 18" away from you (and the meds are making you hallucinate). 

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Ray was a puzzle because unlike most mean nasty hoarders who hoard to his extent, he admitted it was a hoard & it was all his fault; was jovial & was friendly to others in his neighborhood; seemed to enjoy throwing the hoard out. He also still seemed quite cheery a day after his brother died. I didn't see the trauma background that triggered his hoarding like we see in nearly all of these stories. I'm wondering if he was an alcoholic? There were a LOT of empty bottles on the floor.

When they would say "time is running out" to clean the house all I could think of was that bathtub full of urine that was dangerously close to overflowing. Got it suctioned out in the nick of time! ((Gag))

The psychologists certainly earned their money this week. Esp. trying to keep a straight face when the wizard was playing the flute.

Edited by Mrsjumbo
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I live in San Francisco.  I kept trying to read the street signs so I could see exactly where Ray's house is located.  While they kept talking about it being a three story house, there was more than one door.  It was either what we call a two flat or a three flat.  That is, each floor is an apartment.  Ray and his brother lived in the upper flat.  The walls that were coming apart were on the enclosed back porch.  From what they showed, the walls are not what you would normally imagine.  These are one layer of beadboard held together with wide spaced 2X4s. 

There was so much beautiful original woodwork in that house.  Damn.  It would be worth a lot of money if it was in good shape.  As it is, Ray is in a bad place.  Dealing with the city and contractors to do repairs will probably end up in his losing the building.  If he could get it fixed up and rent the units,  he would do well.  Rents are very high here.  I did wonder if they weren't showing the other floors because there are renters living there.  They may not be hoarders but the building is unsafe.  (I have almost finished massive amounts of repairs that were needed because I had a hoarder living in the upper unit of my two flat.  Fortunately I had money put away and could afford to not have a tenant for a long time.  I doubt Ray is in that position.)  

Shannon made me love Corey Chalmers even more.  He was so good at being kind to her.  He saved his snark for the talking heads.  He recognized just how unstable she is.  I worry about her kids and hope her family checks in regularly.      

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I wondered if maybe Shannon's mom and uncle just didn't want to go on record as thinking Shannon was nuts, so they agreed about the dark energy.

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8 minutes ago, pakalolo said:

I found Shannon's story about not having anyone to talk to but "friend" for 90 days very confusing considering she has 3 children. 

How did I not think of this? Was someone else taking care of her kids?

She did say she somewhat hoarded before the accident but that it got worse. 

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7 minutes ago, Court said:

How did I not think of this? Was someone else taking care of her kids?

She probably means she didn't have an adult to talk to.  But still, good point!  I doubt someone else was watching them.  And how could her family not check in with her for 90 days after a brain injury when she has three kids!  

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I'll bet that Shannon had her family, including her mom and uncle, to talk to after the concussion, but may not remember it due to the head trauma.  Her memory might be affected regarding that time period.  I'm glad, cat lover that I am, that Friend got a decent burial.  It seems her family has a history of paganistic beliefs, so I was happy that Zazio and Cory were able to just go with the flow.  Though Dr. Zazio needs to stop with the blue hair dye - it's not a good look on her.

Ray and his brother probably were left that house from their parents, in which case the taxes would be (relatively) low, as they'd be grandfathered in to Prop 13.  Ray was so likeable - glad his neighbors were there for him.  Especially the neighbors that were going to let him use their bathroom facilities.  They'd shown the "wall" separating from the house early in the episode, so I knew there were structural issues.  I do hope poor Ray can keep his house, and that he gets the mental and emotional support he's going to need going on.

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1 hour ago, pakalolo said:

I found Shannon's story about not having anyone to talk to but "friend" for 90 days very confusing considering she has 3 children. 

It might be that she needed a "friend" who didn't criticize or challenge her behavior which her mother, brother and children may have done. But, she seemed to have a small dog that she kept carrying around. If she needed a non-judgmental friend enough to adopt a cat skull why didn't she rely on the dog for that? I guess she just wasn't thinking rationally on any level. 

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I was wondering if mom or uncle took the kids during the recovery months, therefore leaving Shannon alone with her thoughts. Maybe they phoned her daily, but that was still many hours of her alone. The uncle, especially seems so supportive, I can't imagine they left the kids alone with a woman who had a TBI.

Also, the BSOJ noted that Sharron and the kids had moved to an apartment while her house ad structural repairs made, someone had to step in to fund that.

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Wasn't Shannon's home a doublewide?

Doubt Lenny is still in that real estate. Many people last night had clean ups and then moved.  (Between H and HO.)  Change from the usual.

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So many thoughts on this episode, but what I can say now is: is there a wizard who can force Zazio to choose the correct foundation shade and not pack on so much powder?

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When will Dr. Zazio learn to not open jars without checking what's in them first?  When you know someone is hoarding things for their cat skull, don't open the jar with the dead rats. 

I too think Shannon had people to talk to.  They may  not have been available 24/7 like Friend was.  However, she did have a dog.  Heck, it has a small skull and fangs.  Chat away!

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On 1/11/2017 at 9:28 PM, Court said:

Agreed. I physically gagged at one point and I'm not faint of stomach.

Same.  I really thought I was going to throw up.  I had to delete it. 

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Okay Hoarders has totally topped itself...that was the grossest of the gross, and I am a big fan of the show, but I am out....that lady was totally insane, has no right to have kids.  Most of the show became what I call a "fast forward special." This show has become something else about the seriously mentally ill. This is beyond OCD.

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Cory said this is the last episode, they only ordered half a season and weren't renewed (yet).

 

 

That woman has no business being in charge of children.  Her TBI either caused or excaserbated a mental illness.

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Okay Hoarders has totally topped itself...that was the grossest of the gross

As someone who has seen all the episodes, I can verify it is not. Good thing you weren't watching a few seasons ago when the cat refrigerator made an appearance.

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I can look away during any poop-nonsense, but if I see one second of any dead/neglected animals, I am scarred for the rest of the night.

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Shannon named her daughter Adonai. She named her daughter God. Shannon was not ok and probably hadn't been for a long time. I suppose the TBI made everything worse but she struck me as severely depressed and probably chronically depressed. (I do know depression.) Mom seemed nice but the uncle seemed like an asshat. He sort of laughed when he said she could have an exorcism, like it was all a big joke. I hope she gets the help she needs. This is about a lot more than hoarding.

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7 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

I thought the uncle seemed okay, he's the one who suggested they bury Friend?

Yeah, I just remembered that part. He seemed nice during the burial. I may have jumped to conclusions about him. No surprise since we only meet him for a minute.

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Shannon said during the time after her accident she didn't talk to a single person. Her emphasis was on person, that's why I was confused when she suddenly had 3 children. She also claimed to have gone through multiple harrowing experiences leading her to believe she had a demon issue, but never mentioned any of them.

This episode left me with way more questions than answers, why was everyone ignoring Shannon's clear mental illness and leaving those children in her care? Was it all just an elaborate performance art piece? I mean, sifting, saving and labeling vacuum dust in jars...then crying while dumping them out, inhaling all that mess while uncle plays acoustic guitar in a Rick and Morty shirt? For real?

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