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Mindhunter

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On 10/16/2017 at 10:56 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I'm wondering if a ton of people just binged on all ten episodes. I noticed there's not much activity for individual episodes, but there's a lot of commentary under episode 10.

I binged the series on the Friday it came out and that makes it hard for me to comment on single episodes other than to answer questions that come up. They didn't stand out as individual episodes, it was more like skipping the commercials or pausing to go get a snack.

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I didn't mind the girlfriend, when they gave her more to do, outside of being a sexy hippie dream girlfriend. I liked her best with Tench's wife.

I loved Tench. He didn't even seem like a TV character, just an FBI agent, who was really worn down from the job. 

I thought Holden had a panic attack a) because that was a frightening encounter with kemper, and b) because kemper said that he had to attack women, to get their attention. I thought when he hugged him, he was acting like he finally had a friend. Maybe I'm off on that, though, since he didn't respond to him until he was in the hospital. 

With BTK, I figured they would continue to build up with those, if they had multiple seasons on Netflix, culminating in his capture. I had trouble with several of the characters (male), looking too much alike, with their dark hair and mustaches. 

I also wondered about the parts with the cat. At least she didn't find him dead. That's what I was afraid of. 

Edited by Anela
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16 hours ago, cmfran said:

This perfectly summed up my thoughts on the pilot. I ended up turning it off with about 15 mins to go, and I don't plan on watching more. 

Maybe try giving episodes 2 & 3 a try. I've watched all 10 now. Still undecided on the show as a whole, but things didn't really start clicking for me until episode 3 - there's finally movement and less exposition. I am extremely patient, and a Fincher super-fan, but was not as enthused about this show as some were. Will probably give Season 2 a look.

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4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm thinking potential serial killer for the kid, right?

I thought that too, but I really hope they don't go there. I feel so bad for his parents already  : (

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I concur with several others here: -

1) The girlfriend also irritated me at first. I wish writers would realise that no-one likes relentlessly quippy clever-dicks and that being a constant pain-in-the-arse is not how banter works. This may just be me, but it is an issue I have often found with US female TV characters recently; rather than flesh out a character, writers tend to make them abrasive smartarses, and I do not understand why this is a thing. The character grew on me a lot as the show progressed and her role expanded, and in the latter episodes I came to like her, because the irritating quips were gone and we actually had a fully fleshed out character. 

2) They need to give Wendy more to do than be the constantly disapproving mother figure. Her character became a bit lost and surplus-to-requirements as the show progressed.  

3) The stars of the show for me were both Tench and Edmund. These performances were superb. 

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I went from being excited to very doubtful to mildly engaged with this series. I'm a patient person, but this took a loooooong time to start clicking for me - I almost gave up.

On the bad side:

I still don't care for the lead actor. I didn't like his naive boyishness in the beginning, and his transformation to reckless inquisitor felt much too abrupt to me. I still can't tell if it's the actor, the writing or a combination of both.

The girlfriend Debbie. Man, I hope she's gone for good. Hated the character, felt she was much too smug and quippy, and had absolutely no chemistry with Holden. I had no idea why they were even together. 

4 minutes ago, Pindrop said:

an issue I have often found with US female TV characters recently; rather than flesh out a character, writers tend to make them abrasive smartarses, and I do not understand why this is a thing.

Yes! THIS. Have your characters speak like actual people! Her character never did this and I never warmed up to her.

On the good side:

The actor playing Bill Tench. He felt 100% authentic to me for the entire series. I don't recall seeing him in anything before, but I will keep an eye out for him in other projects, he was excellent.

The actors playing the serial killers - they were also excellent, especially the actor playing Kemper. That had to have been the most terrifying bear hug ever!

I don't mind the Anna Torv character, I just think they need to give her more to do. Good interpretations from everyone on the whole cat/tuna subplot, as that had me scratching my head.

I know some have complained about the time spent on the lead characters' home lives, but I think it's meant to show the damage that their line of work can have on the psyche, and how it can negatively affect loved ones. I don't know how real investigators do this day in and day out for years on end.

I will definitely continue watching when they air Season 2, but I have to say this did not blow my mind the way I was hoping it would.

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11 hours ago, veronicamers said:

Seriously! I said to my husband when we were watching that I could listen to him narrate all day.

He should do an audiobook for Mindhunter (the book). I would buy the hell out of that.

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That's kind of the vibe I got, too! That Bill (yes, Tench) was trying to say if Holden was killed in the car crash it would have been like losing a son.

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I think part of it was the writing for the girlfriend -- every dialogue between them was short comment and response.  And she had two responses -- either answering a  with a question or a pissed-off-sounding challenge.  That was their dynamic and I found it exhausting.  I place part of that responsibility on the actors -- to get around that bad writing.  He did.  She didn't. (She was awful.)  In my opinion, of course!

Edited by Captanne
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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 0:33 AM, Irlandesa said:

Actually, I thought it was Holden that demanded to be the center of everything.  We saw that numerous times over the course of the series.  He barely paid attention to her studies unless he saw usefulness for it in his job. 1. He was upset when she wouldn't drop everything and come to them after the car accident even though they both were fine. (And Trench called him out on it.)  2. He was irrationally jealous of her classmate, Patrick, even going as far as to tell her she should call him if she needed a ride home from school. 3. He showed up to her house uninvited and when she told him that she really needed to study, he blew past her and went inside anyway.  4. And perhaps his worse transgression was when she dressed up for him in lingerie and when he realized her high heels would be too distracting for him to perform, he backed off and told her it wasn't like her.  So he shifted blame to her instead of admitting it was because he had just witnessed a serial murderer masturbate to sexy shoes and therefore the high heels, while a nice gesture, were going to be boner killers for a while. 

I don't need to see her next season but I do think she served some important purposes such as showing how Holden's behavior changed with people he cared about over the series (I wouldn't say he cared about his partner) and she got him into this psychological side of criminology.  But yeah, there were times she was very unnecessary such as the unneeded sex scenes or the family dinners with Trench's wife.

Overall, this show grew on me as it went on.  It maybe suffers from Netflixis where it got to the point where this was a lot of world building and the next season has the potential to be more fast paced but I still watched all the episodes in a few days.

That's interesting, but I saw each of these situations differently.  (numbers mine to make it easier to respond)

1. I disagree.  If my husband (granted, he's my husband- but even if he was my very serious boyfriend at the time) was just sideswiped I would go. Even if he was medically fine.  That was a very scary situation and they were both extremely rattled.  She could've missed whatever class or whatever she was doing for this emergency.

2. This wasn't irrational, as was shown when Holden went to that experiment thing (to which he was invited, so Debbie should've been much more careful).  There was no way to spin that.  They were very close to each other.  I did glance down for a second, so I don't know if they were kissing, but they were too close to try to say they hadn't been at some point. I'm not saying that Holden's behavior didn't push her to seek companionship in Patrick, but why deny it?  Why stay in the relationship? 

3. That was uncalled for from Holden.  He should've left.  Even if he were actually quiet, just his presence would be distracting and irritating.

4. Those were the same EXACT shoes.  I think she thought he was looking at them and admiring them/thinking they're sexy and she thought she was surprising him in a good way.  No way could she have known he was checking them out for a serial killer- although why Holden didn't tell her that I don't know.  But, in Holden's defense, he tried very hard to push that out of his mind and just couldn't.  I can't blame him for that at all.  I didn't see him shift blame at all.  He apologized and said it wasn't her, which she took the very wrong way and started a fight.  I also don't really blame him for not bringing every fucked up detail back to her.  Cops/firefighters/emt's try to keep that stuff separate from home life.  They compartmentalize.  Both for their own sanity and to also not mess up everyone around them worldviews.  No one can deny that all the stuff they see change them and jade them against humanity.  Trying to not do that for your loved ones is admirable, imo.

But, the overall point of Holden needing to be the center of everything, I agree with.  But, I also found Debbie grating.  I also binged this show in less than 24 hours.  Can't wait for season 2 

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8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Maybe try giving episodes 2 & 3 a try. I've watched all 10 now. Still undecided on the show as a whole, but things didn't really start clicking for me until episode 3 - there's finally movement and less exposition. I am extremely patient, and a Fincher super-fan, but was not as enthused about this show as some were. Will probably give Season 2 a look.

I'll think about it. I also bailed on House Of Cards within the first couple eps, and as a Fincher fan, I really wanted to like that one as well. 

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If the goal of studying serial killers is to see how they're made and to try to prevent them, it's likely to make him more aware of what not to do. I'm thinking his son is just autistic, but that Tench will become more determined to be less of an absent father as that's a commonality in the killers he studies.

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When I say I found their dialogue exhausting I don't mean situationally.  I mean line for line.  From the moment he met her in the bar, she either answered him with a question or a challenge.  They never once (that I can recall) had a normal, back and forth contributing conversation.  It was constant staccato question, challenge, question, challenge.  Wiped my damned ass out.

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12 minutes ago, Captanne said:

When I say I found their dialogue exhausting I don't mean situationally.  I mean line for line.  From the moment he met her in the bar, she either answered him with a question or a challenge.  They never once (that I can recall) had a normal, back and forth contributing conversation.  It was constant staccato question, challenge, question, challenge.  Wiped my damned ass out.

Yes, exactly. There were no normal rhythms to their conversations, and certainly no affection, humour, playfulness or romantic spark. It felt like she didn't even like him. I felt totally wiped out as well. I hope she's gone for good as a love interest.

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Holt McAnally has had a HiTG! career and he's so much better than that. He's doing some great work here. I'm glad he's finally getting a showcase. (I guess Lights Out was one, but did anybody watch that?)

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Really liked it. The music totally sets the timeline for me. I even downloaded a few of those little gems. 

The actress playing Debbie is a no for me. I get the character's purpose, but I so didn't like their dynamic. She seemed so patronizing. He just seemed so pathetically pleased to actually have a girlfriend, that he put up with all her insulting condescension. The only time I warmed up to her was when she was kind to Tench's wife. 

Speaking of, Tench was easily my favorite character in this. The actor's performance and the character himself kept me invested in the show, because I didn't find Ford particularly easy to watch. 

Delving into the minds of the serial killers was the main draw for me. It's just so creepy and eerily fascinating. It's cool to see how people in law enforcement pushed back on anything they viewed as an attempt to humanize them. Like, just talking to them other than to elicit confessions was considered taboo, I guess.

Edited by Rowan
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16 hours ago, Whimsy said:

1. I disagree.  If my husband (granted, he's my husband- but even if he was my very serious boyfriend at the time) was just sideswiped I would go. Even if he was medically fine.  That was a very scary situation and they were both extremely rattled.  She could've missed whatever class or whatever she was doing for this emergency.

And yet Tench didn't even call his wife.  It was scary but they didn't even go to the hospital.  He wanted her to come pick him up.

Quote

2. This wasn't irrational, as was shown when Holden went to that experiment thing (to which he was invited, so Debbie should've been much more careful).  There was no way to spin that.  They were very close to each other.  I did glance down for a second, so I don't know if they were kissing, but they were too close to try to say they hadn't been at some point. I'm not saying that Holden's behavior didn't push her to seek companionship in Patrick, but why deny it?  Why stay in the relationship? 

 

It was dark and I don't think we even know what the experiment was.  And I don't recall them ever fighting over her actually cheating. 

Quote

4. Those were the same EXACT shoes.  I think she thought he was looking at them and admiring them/thinking they're sexy and she thought she was surprising him in a good way.  No way could she have known he was checking them out for a serial killer- although why Holden didn't tell her that I don't know.  But, in Holden's defense, he tried very hard to push that out of his mind and just couldn't.  I can't blame him for that at all.  I didn't see him shift blame at all.  He apologized and said it wasn't her, which she took the very wrong way and started a fight.  I also don't really blame him for not bringing every fucked up detail back to her.  Cops/firefighters/emt's try to keep that stuff separate from home life.  They compartmentalize.  Both for their own sanity and to also not mess up everyone around them worldviews.  No one can deny that all the stuff they see change them and jade them against humanity.  Trying to not do that for your loved ones is admirable, imo.

She didn't start a fight.  She said "that was the point" in that she was trying to do something exciting for him.  And he did like it until he saw the shoes.  He doesn't have to tell her everything about what he saw (although, let's face it, he told her a lot) but he could have told her to lose the shoes because of something he saw at work. 

I didn't like their relationship but I guess I see her POV much more than others.

Edited by Irlandesa
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59 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

And yet Tench didn't even call his wife.  It was scary but they didn't even go to the hospital.  He wanted her to come pick him up.

It was dark and I don't think we even know what the experiment was.  And I don't recall them ever fighting over her actually cheating. 

She didn't start a fight.  She said "that was the point" in that she was trying to do something exciting for him.  And he did like it until he saw the shoes.  He doesn't have to tell her everything about what he saw (although, let's face it, he told her a lot) but he could have told her to lose the shoes because of something he saw at work. 

I didn't like their relationship but I guess I see her POV much more than others.

I probably split the difference between the two of you: -

1) If I had been in a car accident and a loved one refused to pick me up, I would be a little miffed. 

2) When I first watched the scene of her getting a lift home from Patrick, I thought Holden was irrationally jealous. It then turned out he wasn't, which I thought shifted the blame over to her in a manner that undermined the slow decay of their relationship i.e. that entire arc would have been better without her cheating. 

4) I have always thought of the sexy underwear moment as the death knell of a relationship. It's that point where you are a bored of each other and just going through the motions, and you have to turn things up to eleven just to illicit any response in the bedroom. I am torn between whether 1) he should respond as she expected to show some appreciation for her efforts, and 2) why the hell he should be expected to respond a certain way and his failure to do so should be cause for an argument. However, this scene was symptomatic of the larger schisms in their relationship.   

I found her irritating, patronising and occasionally passive-aggressive towards the start, and I found him selfish, self-obsessed and occasionally passive-aggressive towards the end. Without the cheating, I would have had a lot more sympathy for her, but this somewhat undid any moral high-ground she might otherwise have occupied. 

Edited by Pindrop
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34 minutes ago, Pindrop said:

i.e. that entire arc would have been better without her cheating. 

Did she cheat?  That was just the vaguest and weirdest sequence.  She invited him to her thing.  He said he wouldn't go.  He showed up, it's dark and she's talking to Patrick.  Granted, they were really close but that's it.  And then they were all good soon after.  I don't know if I'm supposed to think she did or if it's just that Holden is supposed to think she did.

Edited by Irlandesa
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56 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Did she cheat?  That was just the vaguest and weirdest sequence.  She invited him to her thing.  He said he wouldn't go.  He showed up, it's dark and she's talking to Patrick.  Granted, they were really close but that's it.  And then they were all good soon after.  I don't know if I'm supposed to think she did or if it's just that Holden is supposed to think she did.

Good question. I think it was strongly implied, particularly given that it was all shown from Holden's perspective, and at that stage he was essentially an audience surrogate. It certainly seemed to be a level of intimacy beyond friendship. If they were aiming for shades of grey(i.e. She was seeking solace elsewhere due to Holden's misdeeds) they were no more successful than with the tickling episode, in my view.

Edited by Pindrop
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Yeah, I'm not sure that this is the kind of show that wants us to over-think the soap opera.  I think she got bored and cheated.  It's not clear but I'd rather go with "this show was not very good on the soapy side" than "this show wants me to get wrapped up in his girlfriend's peripheral behavior."

I absolutely agree that her "question and challenge" conversation style was aggressive, condescending, and patronizing.  That's exactly what annoyed me.  If that had been PART of their dynamic I would have found it amusing.  The actress' performance, though, made it the entire substance of their communication and it was exhausting.  

Edited by Captanne
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This show is a slow start but it finally gets better around epi 3 or 4. I was really liking it actually. But around 8 new developments started to bother me. 

In order to generate drama (I was sort of fine with it) they had to bring in the new guy that you knew was going to be a big problem. Sure enough. 

Episode 9 - finished last night and don't even want to watch 10 I'm so mad at the stupid plot device. I will because its the last episode so why not but still, geez. Why? Would anyone do that? 
 

The new guy has already thrown you under the bus once. He has multiple times practically screamed I don't like lying, I don't do deceit - and still you leave work and leave the tape wit this guy? Really? Is this the only way the show can think to drum up drama?


Holden obviously wants to use these insights on catching real bad buys NOW. Where I him I'd leave the interviews to the contractor lady and the new totally unsuited for it idiot and ask for reassignment to an operational homicide division. Why put up with all that?

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General comments:  

This took about 3 episodes for me to care.  Then I started to enjoy it.  

The Girlfriend:  It is a weird relationship but I think  the facts that she is in a demanding grad program and that its sociology/psychology and that she is sort of emotionally flat all play into why the relationship works for him (not sure about her).  Neither has much time and give a lot to their respective careers so no harping about that, her field allows him to get ideas and insights from her, she can actually talk to her about some really crazy stuff that would send most women screaming.  Her emotional flatness plays into that, she is not someone given to freaking out about what he does.  

The contractor is irritating but in a way that is sort of real life irritating.  I mean she can hear on the tape just how much dialog they would get if Holden just read her questionnaire, because he does and they all practically just jump up for the guard.  The fact that in epi 9 she is throwing him under the bus about it is really irritating though.  

I don't understand why he didn't just say to the wife "Your husband lost his job because he refused to stop touching kids.  He could keep up all his other good works programs.  He has a boss, the boss told him to stop and he didn't.  They really made that all into way more than it was.  To illuminate us on how hard it is to see who is a serial killer and who is not?  Seems like they could have come up with a more realistic scenario.  

I actually haven't watched epi 10 yet I got so mad during epi 9.  

Specific pissed off about

Plot devices to drive up drama, here comes the totally not suited for the job guy who you just know is going to screw things up (cause drama) beccause they what, can't leave well enough alone?  Can't figure out another way to cause some tension?  I hate fake office politics.  Not that there aren't real office politics but....................

Who would have their whole professional existence on the line because of that tape walk out the door without said tape.  Not only that but leaving it in the hands of a guy who had already thrown you under the bus once showing that he is a huge tattle tale and multiple times practically screamed I can't lie!  I can't deceive!  I don't think this is right!  

Seriously.  I just got mad, this was so stupid as a plot device.  

Holden obviously wants to use what they've learned to catch bad guys now.  Why he doesn't just ask for reassignment to do that and leave the contractor and the tattle tail to do the interviews if they are so smart IDK.  

Edited by marys1000
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I think the whole point of having so much of Holden and Debbie's relationship was to show how Holden's opinion and actions towards women have been affected by Holden getting into the minds of so many violent misogynists.  There were also two pointed references to Holden's mother and her seemingly OTT reaction to her son's sex life, so that seemed like another way Holden relates to these men.  The line started to blur between Holden's "play-acting" and his real feelings.  We see him becoming more and more dismissive of Debbie, his jump to instant jealousy, etc.  Then he flies out to see Kemper because on some weird level Holden thinks Kemper is the only person he can relate to after the breakup and Tench and Carr questioning his methods.  He was also becoming insufferably egotistical (that celebration bar scene....yikes).  In a weird way I hope the whole thing with Kemper at the end shakes him enough that he course corrects.   

I do hope Holden and Tench are on better terms in the future - with Carr as well.  I really liked the scene in the diner after the car accident with Tench telling Holden about his son and the implication that Tench was starting to see Holden as a son, of sorts, and that's why Tench was so shaken after the crash.  

I am an Anna Torv stan, so I cannot be objective, but I did like Carr and hope we get more of her in the next season.  

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I am now sold on the show. I thought the pilot was a snoozer and I went with episodes 2&3. This episode got me, especially after I realized that the Behavioral Science Team is going to go forward tracking BTK!

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Just binge watched all episodes in 24 hours. I liked it. I didn't find the girlfriend actress to be a bad actress. She just was a slightly unlikable character. I wish they'd stay broken up but suspect they won't.

The ending...it's based on true events. The real FBI guy was interviewing Ed in a cell when he saw the guard leave. He got nervous and pushed the help button. Ed saw this and told him that he could twist his head right off and have it sitting on the table before the guards could get in to stop him. The FBI guy frantically pushed button until guard came back and then he ran out of the cell and never went back alone. After that they made a rule that they had to always interview in pairs.

Looking forward to more. Ed was acted awesomely. As was Speck. I wonder if we'll see the feminine Speck. Love the partner, Tench. I so feel his burned out feelings...burned out with work and home. He's just so disconnected with their work until he needs to connect and when he does, wow, he nails it. 

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22 hours ago, Rowan said:

Delving into the minds of the serial killers was the main draw for me. It's just so creepy and eerily fascinating. It's cool to see how people in law enforcement pushed back on anything they viewed as an attempt to humanize them. Like, just talking to them other than to elicit confessions was considered taboo, I guess.

Oh, I know! I also want to know why these killers are the way they are. Thanks to the kind of work depicted on this show, there's more info now, but I think even to this day we only have the tip of the iceberg. And that "they're just monsters, there's nothing more to know. Only sickos would want to hear what they have to say." attitude is still around. As if wanting to learn more about what makes them tick is the same as being in love with them and treating them like rock stars.

Maybe one day we can prevent this level of deviance, instead of playing catch-up and having law-enforcement chase after these guys after they've already harmed people. But that would require us to know a lot more about how they are formed. It would require changes on a societal level, not just changes in law-enforcement. We are not even close to having all the answers. How are we ever going to know more if we don't study them?

Holden already applying what they've learned so far to solve cases is jumping the gun a bit, I agree with Dr. Carr on that one. It's like trying to make medicine with only part of the formula and just filling in the rest by guessing. It's liable to go terribly wrong.

I can understand the way he can't just stand idly by when he feels like he can prevent bad things from happening, though. That was part of the point with the story of the tickling principal. And then it looks like he feels bad and is unsure whether he did the right thing, that's why he let the principal's wife unload on him and why he had kind of a guilty look on his face when he saw the principal all disheveled in the supermarket parking lot.

Edited by Bec · Reason: fixed a typo
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1 hour ago, Bec said:

Oh, I know! I also want to know why these killers are the way they are. Thanks to the kind of work depicted on this show, there's more info now, but I think even to this day we only have the tip of the iceberg. And that "they're just monsters, there's nothing more to know. Only sickos would want to hear what they have to say." attitude is still around. As if wanting to learn more about what makes them tick is the same as being in love with them and treating them like rock stars.

Maybe one day we can prevent this level of deviance, instead of playing catch-up and having law-enforcement chase after these guys after they've already harmed people. But that would require us to know a lot more about how they are formed. It would require changes on a societal level, not just changes in law-enforcement. We are not even close to having all the answers. How are we ever going to know more if we don't study them?

Holden already applying what they've learned so far to solve cases is jumping the gun a bit, I agree with Dr. Carr on that one. It's like trying to make medicine with only part of the formula and just filling in the rest by guessing. It's liable to go terribly wrong.

I can understand the way he can't just stand idly by when he feels like he can prevent bad things from happening, though. That was part of the point with the story of the tickling principal. And then it looks like he feels bad and is unsure whether he did the right thing, that's why he let the principal's wife unload on him and why he had kind of a guilty look on his face when he saw the principal all disheveled in the supermarket parking lot.

I really can't not look when it comes to shows like this. Although it does creep me out on a different level knowing these guys were real. I remember watching that made for TV movie about Ted Bundy with Mark Harmon when I was way too little to be watching, and it scared the shit out of me, but I was also fascinated by it, at the same time. 

I mean, mob enforcers are basically serial killers, too, right? But, when I watch that stuff, I never feel as eerily creeped out by the heinous crap that they perpetrate as I do when there is a sexually deviant angle involved. 

The actors they found for these serial killer roles were great. The guy in the Kemper role, man. I should not have late night binged this. I keep seeing him with those glasses. It gives me the heebie jeebies. 

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Overall I liked this a lot but Holden really started to annoy me in later episodes. His cocky, smug, holier than thou attitude started to grate after awhile. I actually missed the earnest boy scout of earlier episodes. I hope that final scene with Kemper was his 'come to Jesus' moment and he's a little less preachy in the upcoming season.

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On 10/16/2017 at 0:49 PM, ShadowHunter said:

Love the relationship between Holden and Bill. Nice to things develop between them since the first episode. 

I don't care for Debbie. I find the relationship with Holden to be very boring.  

Happy Anna Torv finally showed up. I like her character so far. 

Glad they solved a case but I wonder about the case mentioned to them in the first episode.  I keep thinking that will come back.

They keep showing that creepy guy now. At least in episode 2 and 3.

Will watch 4 and 5 later tonight.  This show works well to binge but also some time to process what we learned.

BTK serial killer?

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On 10/14/2017 at 3:34 PM, Kemper said:

I am sort-of interested...watched the first two episodes; hopefully it picks up a little. 

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The actor who plays the nutcase/murderer in prison who had sex with his mother's head?  Thought he was fantastic.  Scary but pulls you in with his ordinary-ness.  Liked how the lead actor was bonding with him over women problems.

  Speaking of...

Maybe it is my age(70) but I am certainly no prude.  I found the some of the sex scenes between the lead and his annoying girlfriend a little gratuitous.  I don't need to actually see a guy struggling to please his lover via oral sex.  Kind of wish they would just stick to the procedural stuff which is way more interesting.  Just me?  

I don't mind the gratuitous sex (I'm in my 60's) - but maybe I don't pay that much attention, because I don't recall the oral action happening in this episode. 

I love Jonathon Groff - especially after watching him in Looking (HBO), which wasn't a comedic show. I didn't know he was in this - I'd just read someone's recommendation, and decided to watch the first episode. It captured me more than most first episodes - and I typically don't like law enforcement stuff set in the past. 

Looking forward to the next one.

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Wow So epi 10 really ramps up Holdens obnoxious level..  I didnt get posters complaints before.  

 

Read some reviews of the book this was loosely based on. Pretty much everyone comments

on how full of himself the guy is.  Very self aggrandizing, takes credit, book is badly written.  So maybe thats why the character is written this way.

A very big difference btw the sweet giy in epi 1 and the idiot in epi 10.  Pretty big arc.  

 

Argh!  How could Tench not know it was that sorry weak ass Smith.  Gah.  What a stupid plot line.

 

That last scene with Kemper was hilarious.

So was the last scene  a serial killer burning his creepy sketches/evidence because of the article?  (Am I going to have to read up on the BTK killer before season 2?)

Edited by marys1000
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Shelley DuVall from The Shining? OMG yes! She was one of the scariest things in that movie, and Rose totally gives off the same vibes.

Funny how after all the crap Bill and Holden gave that local cop for handling things wrong, it was that local cop that ended up getting them this big break in the case by deciding they needed to talk to Rose.

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I didn't even think of the article as the reason that guy is burning his drawings! I don't think the show made that clear? But it's possible.

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5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't mind the gratuitous sex (I'm in my 60's) - but maybe I don't pay that much attention, because I don't recall the oral action happening in this episode. 

I love Jonathon Groff - especially after watching him in Looking (HBO), which wasn't a comedic show.

Looking could be funny.  And the sex scenes in this show make me miss Looking.  While somewhat graphic and hot, the sex scenes in Looking almost always served as a way to learn something about the characters.  That's why the sex scenes in this show felt gratuitous.  It felt like the show felt a need to meet a tits quotient more than feeling like they were absolutely necessary to tell this story.

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Season two will be about Wayne Williams - The Atlanta child murderer (and some others). Dennis Rader (BTK Killer), the guy with the mustache who appears at the beginning of every episode was caught in Feb 2005, it would be too early for them to catch him, too big of a leap. Probably the star of the final season, I guess.

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The kid sure looked like he wanted to kill Holden when Holden knocked over the little tower he was building out of Lincoln Logs.

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9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Looking could be funny.  And the sex scenes in this show make me miss Looking.  While somewhat graphic and hot, the sex scenes in Looking almost always served as a way to learn something about the characters.  That's why the sex scenes in this show felt gratuitous.  It felt like the show felt a need to meet a tits quotient more than feeling like they were absolutely necessary to tell this story.

Not disagreeing - just said I didn't mind it. There is a great variance in how sex is handled on shows, and I totally agree that sex scene can be elevated and contribute a lot to the story. And while Looking could indeed be funny, it wasn't a comedy (which was all that I was saying). 

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I hate Debbie. I can’t remember the last time I hated a TV character this much. Why is she even there? I have one episode left and I hope she turns out to be a serial killer because that’s the only thing I can think of to justify the ridiculous writing and badly affected acting going on.

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I hope it's not misdirection, because I really want to see how they handle it as a story. It still bothers me that he wasn't convicted for any of the child murders, only for the deaths of two adults.

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