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S03.E06: And the Trial of the Triangle

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In order to stop the spread of Pure Evil, the team must find the Eye of Ra and unravel the mystery of The Bermuda Triangle. Flynn must also pass a series of tests that will help him find the eye and reveal a great deal about himself.

 

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Too much Flynn for me. I'm sorry, The Flynn Show just isn't my cup of tea. At least he seemed to have a touch of character growth by the end, but we'll see if it sticks. I seem to recall they've hit those beats several times in the past, and yet we always end up resetting to SuperFlynn.

Things I did like: the intervention, Stone's rage at Ezekiel flying first class, hearing CK recite poetry, and Cassandra as the Queen.

Edited by Maelstrom
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A lot of Flynn but the episode was a good one. I enjoyed watching the others work as a team with Flynn to the side insisting on doing everything alone.  His airport "fight"  scene with Baird was great too.  I did like the Looking Glass world.

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I honestly have no idea what their doing with Flynn. I say that as someone who loves Flynn.  We've had Flynn learn that he needs to work as a team last season. And now what? Their back to it? Why? Is this all building up to him being intergrated into the team? Or is there going to be something else for him to race off and find? They can't have it both ways with the five member team working together week after week and Flynn showing up taking over the lead, and leaving everyone else behind or dropped to secondary characters. It doesn't work. And they can't do the latter because that's not what we've been watching for two and half seasons.

Watching Flynn tonight. I couldn't stop thinking of Flynn from the movies. That Flynn was fun, he loved his job, enjoyed geeking out over artifacts, and he worked with others. He and Nicole worked together along with the usual romance sparing, he and Emily worked together along with the usual romance sparing Flynn was even wrong a lot in that movie.  If Flynn's going to be part of the show I want the Flynn who was so excited when he thought he was meeting Sherlock Holmes or telling Baird about the parties that used to be thrown with rock star archivists.      

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4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Watching Flynn tonight. I couldn't stop thinking of Flynn from the movies. That Flynn was fun, he loved his job, enjoyed geeking out over artifacts, and he worked with others. He and Nicole worked together along with the usual romance sparing, he and Emily worked together along with the usual romance sparing Flynn was even wrong a lot in that movie.  If Flynn's going to be part of the show I want the Flynn who was so excited when he thought he was meeting Sherlock Holmes or telling Baird about the parties that used to be thrown with rock star archivists.  

Flynn as a solo character worked for me in the movies. I really enjoyed him there but I watch this series for the three new librarians and their guardian. I do not want him to take over the show with his larger than life personality. Why can't they focus 100% on the new librarians and Flynn make an appearance only once or twice during the season (and even so not for the whole episode)? Like how they handle those Doctor Who spin-offs. The Doctor may appear in those but in very limited amounts. In that way, no one is sick of Flynn and his appearance would be more special.

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The really jarring thing to me was wondering about what happened to all those boatloads and planeloads of people who happened to be on the boats and planes targeted by that trap. All those who did not have magic infused tic-tacs to allow them to survive the trip. Is the old-timer librarian basically a mass murdering serial killer but we should overlook it since it was all for a good cause?!?

I wonder whether they are they going to have Flynn go through with the hinted-at fatal heroic sacrifice or are they going to have a last-second twist that will allow him to escape such a fate?

Apparently, letting Cassandra and Ezekiel (Flynn did include Ezekiel in that didn't he?) have their way with the DOSA agent is going to come back and bite them.

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This episode was kind of a letdown for me.  I get why Flynn is a part of the Librarian's universe what with his connection to all of the original movies.  But I agree with others that he doesn't really fit into the TV show.  He's like a narrative black hole, pulling everyone else into his orbit when he shows up.

Also, I didn't get how they figured out Wonderland.  Something about how this would be the 108th ship to be lost in the Bermuda triangle = the length of the Walrus and the Carpenter.  But doesn't that assume the Venezuelan plane would also be the very last ship to be lost?  

I call foul on the episode description.  "Flynn must pass a series of tests".  Um no, he had to pass 1 test, admitting that he's a flawed person.  And it wasn't even a test.  He was given true/false questions, and each time he answered wrong he'd see the lancer start to wind up so that he could then change his answer.

It feels like part of the show was chopped out at the last minute.  Between the super-cheap CGI on the island, and how the episode made such a big deal about Wonderland before dropping it completely, I'm thinking they were over budget and had to put more of the episode on a generic airplane set (and apparently they couldn't even afford a lock for their airplane set cockpit door)

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6 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

The really jarring thing to me was wondering about what happened to all those boatloads and planeloads of people who happened to be on the boats and planes targeted by that trap. All those who did not have magic infused tic-tacs to allow them to survive the trip. Is the old-timer librarian basically a mass murdering serial killer but we should overlook it since it was all for a good cause?!?

Yeah, I wondered about that too. I also wondered why the team of genius brains was surprised to see passengers on an airliner. Or did they think they had booked tickets on a cargo plane?

I loved Cassandra in the black intervention outfit (I hate her paedo-bait styling so much) and she looked spectacular as the Queen. Other than that this episode was a mixed bag. Asking for emotional involvement with a character who rarely shows up isn't working for me especially since we've been there before as was pointed out abobe. I loved the Lewis Carroll inspired scene (Leverage also did a Lewis Caroll episode and it was a rare failure for that show) and the airport fight between Flynn and Baird.

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I watch this show for the interaction between Baird and the 3 Librarians. They work well as a team and Jenkins adds a lot to the mix. However, every episode that Flynn is in throws off the equilibrium completely.

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The charming part of this show is the three librarians figuring out stuff together because this is all new to them. Not having an "old" and experienced librarian coming to solve every riddle or problem before they have a chance to have a crack at it. And why should we care about the personal development of Flynn? They should be spending all of this time exploring personal developments of Ezekiel or Jake (I'm biased because they are my favorites. But, still.)

Flynn is like the fun police. Takes the fun out of every adventure on this show.

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21 hours ago, futurechemist said:

I call foul on the episode description.  "Flynn must pass a series of tests".  Um no, he had to pass 1 test, admitting that he's a flawed person.  And it wasn't even a test.  He was given true/false questions, and each time he answered wrong he'd see the lancer start to wind up so that he could then change his answer.

 

I actually thought it was a trick when he "won" the Eye of Ra so quickly. It was way too easy. He didn't have to get anything right, simply be honest ... and even at that he got several tries.

I also didn't love the spoon feeding of the situation -- the intervention and the fight in the airport both gave him the exact insights he'd need to pass the chess test.  It was repetitive, cycling through "Flynn's a self-centered PITA" three times. The intervention could have been cut to make room to slow down the island sequence.

Edited by snarktini
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On 12/26/2016 at 8:31 AM, Terrafamilia said:

I wonder whether they are they going to have Flynn go through with the hinted-at fatal heroic sacrifice or are they going to have a last-second twist that will allow him to escape such a fate?

Was I wrong to hope he'd put it in action immediately? Even though it was clear in the beginning that he'd have some "come to Jesus (Ra?)" moment in the show, the opening almost made me turn it off, he was so egregiously arrogant and obnoxious. As I didn't watch the movies, I don't have any leftover affection for the Flynn character. I like Noah Wyle, but I can't stand Flynn, and haven't from the get-go.

As for the Eye of Ra, it's kinda the Eye of Horus (one of which is associated with Ra). Ra's iconography is generally different. But there does seem to be some dispute, so I guess I'll go with it. Not so much my 8 year old who had the Egyptian pantheon memorized, and knew everything about each god. When watching the Stargate movie, she said in the most indignant and condescending voice an 8 year old can manage "that's NOT the eye of Ra, that's the eye of Horus!"

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7 hours ago, lizzyp said:

Was that supposed to be some kind of 'meta' apology to the fans who have complained about Flynn's hamming? 

If so, I call fail on it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like Flynn. I feel like a broken record complaining about him on here every time he shows up, but he just doesn't work for me, at all. Interesting that even some fans who watched the movies and enjoyed Flynn there don't seem to feel he works on the show. I never saw the movies until after the series, so for me The Librarians is Eve, Jenkins, and the three (former) LITs. To whoever said Flynn feels like an interloper, amen.

Honestly, I kind of wish that they'd just spun Flynn back into more movies now that Falling Skies is done and NW is in need of work. That way the Flynn/movie fans are happy, the series fans are happy, everyone wins. It wouldn't be too hard to write stories that could overlap once in a while but still exist separately - look at the Marvelverse, they bring characters together into one movie and then send them off on their own again just fine.

Also of note that Noah Wyle wrote this episode.

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I don't not like Flynn, but I think TPTBs don't know how to work him in properly. It's a team show; Leverage was a team show. I think that's really good. 

So, that's what this show is. Flynn going off to do the big stuff, like find Ra, is fine. If he has to come back out should really be a two part episode for something big that requires ALL the Librarians. 

The intervention was good and Eve, as guardian, was right to call it. But I felt it wasn't more than lip service because Flynn still went off on his own and got the stone. I would have preferred if they left his fate unknown or he was trapped in the Triangle because he acted alone, and then resolve it in the finale with all of them working together. 

I actually don't want Flynn to die either, but if it's like this than the Library needs to see him into a new role. 

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Have to be the only one who enjoys Flynn, not least because seeing Baird as someone besides a useless mother hen is nice. The team sort of works for bag and tag missions out of Warehouse 13 I think, but as librarians, no. Especially not Ezekiel. Kim is fine but the Thief Librarian just doesn't fly. Olivier couldn't make that work I think. 

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Thief Librarian actually works pretty well for me.  One of the odd things about Warehouse 13 was that they didn't really seem to have someone trained as a "thief-type" person.  The Librarians are involved in artifact location and retrieval, mostly from people that already possess said artifacts.  A thief would be highly useful.  In terms of team functionality, I'd be more inclined to drop Jake (use wikipedia) or Cassandra(use a calculator) than Ezekiel.

Edited by johntfs
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I do like Flynn both in the movies and in the show, but this episode just seemed off to me... It makes me feel like I missed something ( I also felt that way in the ep with Charlene... but maybe I did miss an episode last season where Flynn gave her the necklace? Or did we not see that?)  But anyway.. this week as others have said it seemed like some steps back in Flynn's characterization and his relationship to the team- like this episode should have happened a long time ago, since the first few episodes with Flynn they seemed to be working well together as a team, which is what I liked.

Flynn wasn't so overpowering in the first two episodes and they all worked together to figure things out- everybody had a role to play and it was well done. I don't mind Flynn having an extra edge when it comes to some things, he has been the Librarian much longer... and it's a great joke that the "We're librarians" thing only works for him...

So that made this whole Flynn is selfish and not a team player thing seem out of place to me. I don't think the team has to work seamlessly with Flynn, but they seemed to be finding  a way to work as a team even with Flynn adventuring off on his own at times.

I don't need Flynn to be in every episode, but about half sounds good to me and I hope there is a work around to the price of using the Eye of Ra, because even though Flynn doesn't always fit, I would be really bummed if he were gone for good. Maybe DOSA can snatch him after they get Apep taken care of and next season they can be rescuing Flynn or something... Or at least find a better way to integrate him into the team some of the time without replaying this storyline over and over.

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3 hours ago, roctavia said:

I do like Flynn both in the movies and in the show, but this episode just seemed off to me... It makes me feel like I missed something ( I also felt that way in the ep with Charlene... but maybe I did miss an episode last season where Flynn gave her the necklace? Or did we not see that?)  But anyway.. this week as others have said it seemed like some steps back in Flynn's characterization and his relationship to the team- like this episode should have happened a long time ago, since the first few episodes with Flynn they seemed to be working well together as a team, which is what I liked.

Flynn wasn't so overpowering in the first two episodes and they all worked together to figure things out- everybody had a role to play and it was well done. I don't mind Flynn having an extra edge when it comes to some things, he has been the Librarian much longer... and it's a great joke that the "We're librarians" thing only works for him...

So that made this whole Flynn is selfish and not a team player thing seem out of place to me. I don't think the team has to work seamlessly with Flynn, but they seemed to be finding  a way to work as a team even with Flynn adventuring off on his own at times.

I don't need Flynn to be in every episode, but about half sounds good to me and I hope there is a work around to the price of using the Eye of Ra, because even though Flynn doesn't always fit, I would be really bummed if he were gone for good. Maybe DOSA can snatch him after they get Apep taken care of and next season they can be rescuing Flynn or something... Or at least find a better way to integrate him into the team some of the time without replaying this storyline over and over.

I really like your post. Flynn gave Charlene the necklace in the last movie Curse of Judas Chalice at the end when he came back from New Orleans.  In the beginning of the movie Flynn was having a meltdown about working at the library and not able to have a life or keep a girlfriend Charlene visits him and convinces him to go on a proper vacation and tells him to follow his dreams. When he returns he gives her the necklace and starts to tell her what the inscription means but then tell her it means to follow your dreams. Charlene was touched. 

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5 hours ago, johntfs said:

Thief Librarian actually works pretty well for me.  One of the odd things about Warehouse 13 was that they didn't really seem to have someone trained as a "thief-type" person.  The Librarians are involved in artifact location and retrieval, mostly from people that already possess said artifacts.  A thief would be highly useful.  In terms of team functionality, I'd be more inclined to drop Jake (use wikipedia) or Cassandra(use a calculator) than Ezekiel.

I think Ezekiel's role can even be further expanded in the writing. His skillset is very useful to get them in and out of places.

I like him so I would never want him to be dropped but Jake's functionality is the most dispensable for me, especially with Flynn and Jenkins around. Both of them fill the same space of deep and wide knowledge of history and art. Cassandra is more useful but like you said, they could use a super computer to do the calculations as well.

Edited by waving feather
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I have to agree that Ezekiel's skill set is unique while Jake and to a degree Cassandra are higher up on the dispensable score. Leverage had Parker and whilst there was no thief on the team of W13 one could argue that Claudia had some law-breaking tendencies and skills that occasionally came in handy.

That said I'm not worried about Flynn - the character is so deeply embedded in the show's DNA that I don't think he'll get killed off for good.

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I do t think any of them are dispensable.  They all serve a purpose.  And yes you can use wikapedia and a calculator for Jake and Cassandra's roles but that's not really what they do.  Look at a picture and be able to tell where and when it was painted is not something Wikipedia can do you need Jakes knowledge even before you can start typing details into Wikipedia to get facts.  The same with Cassandra someone needs to interpret them and that is what Cassandra does.

Now if you are talking about likeability.  I honestly dislike Ezekiel and really love Cassandra but that tends to be an unpopular opinion so whatever.

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7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really like your post. Flynn gave Charlene the necklace in the last movie Curse of Judas Chalice at the end when he came back from New Orleans.  In the beginning of the movie Flynn was having a meltdown about working at the library and not able to have a life or keep a girlfriend Charlene visits him and convinces him to go on a proper vacation and tells him to follow his dreams. When he returns he gives her the necklace and starts to tell her what the inscription means but then tell her it means to follow your dreams. Charlene was touched. 

Ah thank you... it's been a long time since I watched that full movie, I will have to find it again :)

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I pretty much agree with the consensus here. I like Flynn in small doses, and I like him in the movies, but I much prefer episodes focusing on the three main characters, with Eve as their guardian and Jenkins as backup. They're dynamic works just right because they all have unique skill sets and backstories and personalities, and they all are figuring things out as they go. Flynn kind of screws up the dynamic, and this episode had him pretty much take over, all so he can learn a lesson he has learned like three times before. At least with the other episodes with Flynn this season, the others still got stuff to do. 

Even other than that, the whole episode was kind of meh, especially compared to the rest of the otherwise strong season.  I liked parts of it, like Stone receipting poetry, and Cassandra was great as the Red Queen, and I did enjoy the fight between Eve and Flynn at the airport and how into it everyone got, but this was mostly kind more of Flynn hamming it up and throwing out some Alice in Wonderland references. I love Alice in Wonderland, and I did like some of the references, but it felt a little forced. 

On 12/26/2016 at 11:31 AM, Terrafamilia said:

The really jarring thing to me was wondering about what happened to all those boatloads and planeloads of people who happened to be on the boats and planes targeted by that trap. All those who did not have magic infused tic-tacs to allow them to survive the trip. Is the old-timer librarian basically a mass murdering serial killer but we should overlook it since it was all for a good cause?!?

That bothered me too. And it seemed like they were doing it on purpose, after the whole thing with Flynn considering sacrificing all the plane passengers to get to the Eye. I thought there would be a thing where Flynn called the old librarian out on killing all those people, and realizing that he almost crossed a line in sacrificing the passengers for a supposed greater good, but nope. They just let all that slide. And, yeah, sacrificing for the greater good, but there was really no better way to hide the Eye without killing countless innocents for decades? And Flynn is suddenly all "I cant possibly kill one person, but five minutes ago I could let a whole plane of innocent people die" near the end? It feels like lessons were learned while the audience was blinking or something. 

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6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't think any of them are dispensable.  They all serve a purpose.  And yes you can use Wikipedia and a calculator for Jake and Cassandra's roles but that's not really what they do.  Look at a picture and be able to tell where and when it was painted is not something Wikipedia can do you need Jake's knowledge even before you can start typing details into Wikipedia to get facts.  The same with Cassandra someone needs to interpret them and that is what Cassandra does.

Now if you are talking about likeability.  I honestly dislike Ezekiel and really love Cassandra but that tends to be an unpopular opinion so whatever.

I agree with you.  My statement was in response to sjohnson's dismissal of the idea of Thief Librarian.  It's not like any of these people are organizing card catalogues or reshelving books.  The majority of the time their missions boil down to "find the magical thingie that's causing problems and fetch it back to the Library."  A thief is super-useful for that.

For my part, I like Ezekiel and Cassandra.  Ezekiel being a cocky, selfish jackass is fun because of the times he gets comeuppance and the times he rises above his nature to do something heroic.  I like the way Cassandra is sweet and somewhat naive, especially when she shows her strength later or finds joy in something like the carnival mirrors.  I keep expecting her to attract some kind of "predator/protector" like Kirby from "Tears of a Clown."  Maybe a vampire.  That would be a temptation for her.  Whatever else you can say about them, vampires aren't going to die of brain cancer.

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Mostly I like all three of them as well as Flynn, but the show struggles to combine them. For me it's due to the downgrade of what makes a Librarian in the transition from movie to show. To make it an ensemble show, they changed some fundamental stuff.

Flynn follows the movie model, one Librarian with broad knowledge capable of solving all the riddles and being a swashbuckling bag-and-tagger. He is capable of doing the entire job himself, even without a Guardian.

Whereas all three of our new baby librarians together make up one Librarian: one can break in and steal anything, one has arts/culture/language knowledge to decode ancient challenges plus can fight, one can compute plus also has a talent for magic. Separately, I don't think Cassandra or Ezekiel would be enough on their own. Jake I think could be. (Yes, they showed us the futures where they all succeeded, but again that's a new definition of a Librarian.) That Ezekiel would have been asked to interview for Librarian is a non-starter based on what we saw in the movies. Especially considering he was still a teenager! It's a retcon IMO.

So it makes sense we have a hard time putting those two halves -- the new parts-of-a-whole team and the original solo everything Librarian -- together in a story. And they have changed Flynn, too. Either version is fine with me, but it feels disjointed when they are combined.

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It feels like lessons were learned while the audience was blinking or something. 

Love this statement.

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

For me it's due to the downgrade of what makes a Librarian in the transition from movie to show.

This is a fair point, but since I didn't see the movies and thus have nothing to compare the show to (other than Warehouse 13), I like the dynamics and the various areas of expertise. I have a tendency to prefer teams/ensembles to individuals in any case, but it makes more sense to me in the current information age, to have more heads to figure things out, with different specializations. 

I like Ezekiel, and it seems to me he's more than "just" a thief - he also continues to work on ways to modernize and gather data more efficiently (like his weather tracker app in the Frost Giant episode). Actually, I like them all. Except Flynn.

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13 hours ago, waving feather said:

I think Ezekiel's role can even be further expanded in the writing. His skillset is very useful to get them in and out of places.

He also can code and hack, which I would say is fairly valuable.

13 hours ago, waving feather said:

Cassandra is more useful but like you said, they could use a super computer to do the calculations as well.

As it's been said, she's not necessarily doing calculations. Math is an art; she's recognizing patterns using math more than making calculations. 

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1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I like Ezekiel, and it seems to me he's more than "just" a thief - he also continues to work on ways to modernize and gather data more efficiently (like his weather tracker app in the Frost Giant episode).

Quite right! Ezekiel should have gotten a "plus" like I gave the other two: thief plus technology. That was his future -- a library run via tech. Cassandra led in a magical way. Jake followed the Flynn / Indiana Jones style.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

This is a fair point, but since I didn't see the movies and thus have nothing to compare the show to (other than Warehouse 13), I like the dynamics and the various areas of expertise.

Like I said, I like both versions. An ensemble is interesting and offers more angles, much better for TV longevity. My point is simply that there are some big differences in the adaptation which I believe leads to the disconnect many feel when Flynn is present.

Edited by snarktini
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On 12/28/2016 at 1:42 PM, tennisgurl said:

 And Flynn is suddenly all "I cant possibly kill one person, but five minutes ago I could let a whole plane of innocent people die" near the end? It feels like lessons were learned while the audience was blinking or something. 

I look at it like when you're watching TV and Sally Struthers (or whoever) comes on about how you need to give money to starving, dying children and you don't do it.  If the starving kids were people you knew or where right there physically in your living room, it'd be different, but it's not.  So you feel a little guilty, wait it out and watch the next episode of South Park or Tosh.0.

The idea that Flynn would dismiss the plight of ordinary strangers while balking at sacrificing people he knew is a fairly basic side of human nature, no lesson required.

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So, Flynn returns and the episode is pretty much all about him, again.  I'm in the camp that enjoys him as a character and even gets a kick out of Noah Wyle's hammy performance (especially after all the speeches and moping around on Falling Skies), but for whatever reason, this show just seems to struggle with integrating him into the main cast, and it still comes off like his hijacking the show, instead of helping it and its ensemble.  I get that he will always have a part in this, due to the movie connection, but they either need to sort this out, or just start giving him more television movies, because it is clear that someone behinds the scenes likes him, but he needs to be doing his own thing, instead of taking away from the actual leads on this show.

Anyway, so he does managed to past the tests and get the Eye of Ra, but it will require a "sacrifice", and I'm guessing judging from his reaction, his plan is going to be himself, but I'm guessing something will happen that will prevent a major death from happening.

The intervention scene was pretty fun, as was Barid and Flynn's "Fake fight, that was actually a real fight" bit.  Especially The Liberians' reaction to it.  They really did come off like kids who were watching their parents fight.

Sure looks like this DOSA group is finally going to get more involved.

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I get the feeling that the Librarians will defeat Apep/Pure Evil only to end up arrested by DoSA and landing in federal stir.  Maybe Vanessa Williams will end up as their liaison to the Feds.  Like a more glam Amanda Waller from Suicide Squad.

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Flynn is more than just the movie Librarian, Wyle is a producer and loves the roll so the character will be around for the duration. And since he's written and directed episodes, I don't think he's going anywhere soon.

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As others said, this wasn't really a "trial." It was more of interview prep: 

Ersatz HR Rep: What's your worst quality?

Flynn: I'm an egomaniac. *Knight makes a move closer*

F: I'm a backstabber. *Move closer*

F: I'm too hard a worker . *Knight returns to original square*

EHR Rep: Where do you see yourself in 5 years?

F: Living on a beach after embezzling company funds. *Knight moves*

F: Getting huge bump in pay by taking company secrets to competitor. "Moves."

F: Steadily working my way up company ladder through diligence and ability to work with and motivate co-workers. *Knight evaporates*

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