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S01.E08: Pride & Joy

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Elizabeth and Philip go on an exhausting world journey. Margaret takes over some of her sister’s official duties and tries to liven things up.

 

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Geez, Philip, stop being such a Bitter Betty.

The Queen Mother has been an oddly low-profile presence in this series, so I liked seeing her get a bit of her own story in this episode.  Having her express some bitterness about what is effectively an enforced early retirement alongside widowhood is a nice piece of writing.

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4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The Queen Mother has been an oddly low-profile presence in this series, so I liked seeing her get a bit of her own story in this episode. Having her express some bitterness about what is effectively an enforced early retirement alongside widowhood is a nice piece of writing.

She was bemoaning the fact that she'd been put out to pasture but when asked to act in Elizabeth's absence, she demurred and hared off to Scotland. Needed some peace and quiet! Bought herself a castle!

It's good to be the monarch, apparently, since everyone misses it and Margaret wants it. Must be the obeisances. And having servants undress you.

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Just now, lordonia said:

She was bemoaning the fact that she'd been put out to pasture but when asked to act in Elizabeth's absence, she demurred and hared off to Scotland.

Perhaps she doesn't want to be reminded of what she's missing.

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I believe she greatly enjoyed being Queen and really came into her own during the war years when her spine of steel rallied the British people to do their best.  I don't know if she wanted the role, but she became so famous that to be suddenly pulled out of the role must have been painful. 

The scenes they shot in Scotland are magnificent!!  No wonder the family wanted to escape up there.  As everyone else has said, the budget on this show must be huge.

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Word is 150 million $. And I got to say, you can see it in every frame. That is like 5 x 30 million $ movies - which sounds about right given the lack of CGI. The Queen (2006) was about 15 mil. I hope the show is racking in viewers because that is a HUGE investment, especially as they are planing 6 season.

Edited by tanita
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Loved the final scene between Elizabeth and Margaret.

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She was bemoaning the fact that she'd been put out to pasture but when asked to act in Elizabeth's absence, she demurred and hared off to Scotland.

She also wanted her other daughter to "shine" for a while.

Edited by VCRTracking
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1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Loved the final scene between Elizabeth and Margaret.

She also wanted her other daughter to "shine" for a while.

Poor Margaret.  She never found happiness.  Her scenes were heartbreaking.  I don't know how Elizabeth was able to do it.  I would have never broken my sister's heart like that.

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In real life the Scotland trip was the year before. 

Margaret asks to wear the Cambridge Lover's Knot tiara but it was on tour with the Queen.

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On November 6, 2016 at 7:04 PM, stcroix said:

I believe she greatly enjoyed being Queen and really came into her own during the war years when her spine of steel rallied the British people to do their best.

I have to say, the way she's written and portrayed, the Queen Mother here doesn't seem to be showing any steeliness at all. She seems weirdly mousey to me - absolutely nothing like I expected.

This was a woman who inspired the British with her indomitable spirit during World War II - and (much later in life) loved The Golden Girls so much that she brought the actresses to England to perform for her. But on this series, neither her strength nor her sense of humor is coming across at all.

(Also, on the visual side, I think it shows that she's significantly younger than the character she's playing. They've dowdied her up, but I can see her youthfulness through the makeup.)

That said, I liked her storyline in this episode. It was the first time I felt like they really fleshed out her character at all.

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I like this series more and more with each episode.  At first Elizabeth seemed like a cipher, both in her role and out, but the more recent episodes have started to show a more human, dissatisfied, vulnerable side.

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On a completely shallow note, her styling in that whole scene was magnificent! That dress, that hair, make up. Usually she looks, though regal and dignified, older due to colors and style of clothes. There she looked like a young gorgeous woman she was. I couldn't take my eyes off her.

Edited by vavera4ka
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God, what a whiney little shit Pss Margaret could be!

Papa loved me best; I was Papa's favorthinkite; blah blah blah...

I realize she's all of 23, but seriously? The Queen was absolutely right, in that the Sovereign must not appear to be insulting to senior guests or show condencession toward the DoE.  I knew she was a very unhappy woman most of her life, but didn't realize she was envious of her older sister.

And the DoE was almost as bad.  It was nice to see some passion in QEII, though.

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A screaming Queen Elizabeth threw shoes and a tennis racquet at the Duke of Edinburgh during their first Australian visit, a new book has revealed.

The royal tantrum was played out in front of a stunned Australian camera crew who had been waiting for the Queen and Prince Philip to emerge from a chalet in the Yarra mountain range of Victoria in 1954, according to royal author Robert Hardman in his book Our Queen.

“(She) was not merely cross she was hurling shoes, threats and sporting equipment, and venting the sort of regal fury that, in another age, would have cost someone their head,” Hardman writes in an extract published in the Daily Mail.

A little while later, a more familiar, composed Queen came back outside, to apologise for her behaviour.

“I'm sorry for that little interlude,” she told senior cameraman Loch Townsend, “but, as you know, it happens in every marriage. Now, what would you like me to do?”

According to the book, the Queen’s temper is still sometimes on show in the royal household.

She was enraged at being advised to fly the British flag at half-mast, an honour reserved over a millennium only for reigning monarchs, at Buckingham Palace after the death of Diana, Princess of Wales.

“I have been scarred by the Queen,” one senior adviser said.

 

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-when-queen-elizabeth-threw-tennis-shoes-and-racquet-at-prince-philip-1592636

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55 minutes ago, Silly Angel said:

It's funny how much this peek into the royals' lives mirrors our own, which I suppose is the producers' point. Many are the times I've discussed an upcoming trip with my sister while explaining to her how to knight someone, just in case.

Oh wait, while explaining how often to change the kitty litter. I get those confused.

LOL! Yeah, my family had the same problem deciding when to lower the flag at half-mass before settling on every time our football team loses a game.

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Though Phillip was indeed a jerk for most of it, I did like that there were a couple of moments when he was actually thoughtful and caring about his wife.

I like the steel Elizabeth is developing, and the realization that, by God, she's the freaking Queen.

Some of those dresses were quite lovely. I don't tend to like the clothes as much as some, but I did love some of the ones she wore on tour. Especially the one she was wearing when she went after Phillip. What can I say - I love bright colors.

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On 11/20/2016 at 5:03 PM, Silly Angel said:

It's funny how much this peek into the royals' lives mirrors our own, which I suppose is the producers' point. Many are the times I've discussed an upcoming trip with my sister while explaining to her how to knight someone, just in case.

Oh wait, while explaining how often to change the kitty litter. I get those confused.

You do need to practice these things

Telegraph: Princess Beatrice 'slices Ed Sheeran's face with ceremonial sword' while attempting to 'knight' James Blunt at party

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I think she may have done something like that in private.  I don't know that she would have done it publicly or in a situation where she was representing the Queen.

The thing with Margaret  is that she was very conscious of her status as a member of The Royal Family, and she could be very mercurial.  One minute she could be very informal and the next she'd be pulling rank.   

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15 hours ago, Badger said:

I think she may have done something like that in private.  I don't know that she would have done it publicly or in a situation where she was representing the Queen.

The thing with Margaret  is that she was very conscious of her status as a member of The Royal Family, and she could be very mercurial.  One minute she could be very informal and the next she'd be pulling rank.   

Margaret was a pretty notorious party girl, though.  She both smoked and drank heavily, even at public events.  It's not hard to picture her getting a bit drunk and saying something less than royal.

As an example, here's a rather infamous quote from the old girl. 'It was while Princess Margaret was attending a high-society party in New York that the hostess asked her politely how the Queen was keeping. "Which one?" she is reported to have replied with her typically razor-sharp wit. "My sister, my mother or my husband?"

http://yquotes.com/quotes/princess-margaret/#ixzz4RPwoT1ag
 

Edited by doodlebug
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Margaret and Elizabeth's meta conversation musing about their relationship as sisters seemed like the sort of writerly dialogue writers love to write that only happens in plays, films, novels, and nowhere else. It was even worse here, since neither Margaret nor Elizabeth seems sufficiently intellectual or introspective for that kind of conversation.

I loved the "And you would have doubled the price"/ "Spoken like a Scotswoman" bit. That whole subplot was very charming.

Philip is such a little bitch in this series.

Edited by Eyes High
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Well, isn't Margaret a delight?!?  Wow, if this truly is the treatment Elizabeth received from her mother and sister and husband . . . who needs enemies?

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Idk, I feel for Margaret. Maybe it's because I'm the youngest, and I'm still fairly young, but I totally feel her insecurities and her wanting to shine.  She cannot be with the man she loves, and I've seen many of you say, "Oh, what's two years?" Two years feels like an eternity when you're away from the one you love; especially when you're only in your early twenties. She is obviously very intelligent and witty, but she's not allowed to do anything with any of that.  She feels stifled and trapped. Also, the actress is absolutely killing her scenes. Love her. 

Phillip is coming off as an asshole/little bitch, but I can't help but love Matt Smith in the role. I usually don't find him handsome, but the way he carries himself, how he is dressed and styled, and the way he looks at Elizabeth is really winning me over in a superficial way. 

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27 minutes ago, Zima said:

She is obviously very intelligent and witty, but she's not allowed to do anything with any of that.

I am the youngest, too, although not so young anymore, and would have sympathy except I haven't seen Margaret try to do anything other than party, sleep with a married man, and remind her sister that "Dad liked me best."  If we saw her ask about taking on a charity or actively seeking some sort of fulfilling work and being thwarted, I would feel for her.  Instead, when she was given a chance to shine, we discover she was late to events and rude to many of the people she was meant to inspire/encourage/thank.  Yes, it is hard to be away from the man you love, but her actions and threats were petty and childish, even for someone in her early-20's.  I'm not impressed.

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39 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I am the youngest, too, although not so young anymore, and would have sympathy except I haven't seen Margaret try to do anything other than party, sleep with a married man, and remind her sister that "Dad liked me best."  If we saw her ask about taking on a charity or actively seeking some sort of fulfilling work and being thwarted, I would feel for her.  Instead, when she was given a chance to shine, we discover she was late to events and rude to many of the people she was meant to inspire/encourage/thank.  Yes, it is hard to be away from the man you love, but her actions and threats were petty and childish, even for someone in her early-20's.  I'm not impressed.

She's more the in-the-spotlight, celebutante type and not the behind-the-scenes charity-worker type.   At 23, I don't find her immature at all.  Bratty maybe, but understandably so given her circumstances (at least to me), and still relatable. Unpopular opinion, I know.  I found her absolutely charming in her public appearances that were shown.  It doesn't bode well for her that she offended some people, but she wasn't raised to think and act the way Elizabeth was. She's the type of scandalous, controversial figure that I just love to watch, and look forward to seeing more of her.

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20 hours ago, Zima said:

She's more the in-the-spotlight, celebutante type and not the behind-the-scenes charity-worker type.   At 23, I don't find her immature at all.  Bratty maybe, but understandably so given her circumstances (at least to me), and still relatable. Unpopular opinion, I know.  I found her absolutely charming in her public appearances that were shown.  It doesn't bode well for her that she offended some people, but she wasn't raised to think and act the way Elizabeth was. She's the type of scandalous, controversial figure that I just love to watch, and look forward to seeing more of her.

Eh she was a princess who knew her sister was going to be Queen, and had done some charitable functions before the ones shown in this episode, she knew what was expected of because she'd done it before.  Her insistence of saying she had more character than her sister, shows just how immature and self centred she was- which fine she's 23, but still by the end of this ep, I'd have hoped she realised that *Personality* ( which is what Margaret had) does not equal character.

Spoiler

(This may come off as harsh, but knowing that Elizabeth and her Government, moved mountains, in order to let her marry Peter and still keep her title, I tend to side eye, any portrayal of her, there's a reason that the script is drawing parallels between her and Edward)

And she didn't just offend *anybody* She offended very powerful, political figures. There's a problem right there

Edited by Cirien · Reason: Added spoiler tags
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I once read a book review of a biography of Princess Margaret.  I don't recall the author of the book, its title or what the review said.  I only remember the review's title: Royal Pain.

That said 

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Reporter: Having experienced the conditions, do you have sympathy for the miners that work there?

Margaret: One couldn't fail to have sympathy for anyone who has to spend their working life down there.  It's intolerably dark and hot and cramped.  To my eyes, it seemed conditions are still very perilous for these poor, brave men who work underground for so very little.

 

I won't totally dismiss someone who had the temerity to say something that wasn't totally anodyne, and thus tacitly approve the conditions, even if that wasn't her "role" to do so.

Interestingly, her uncle David got in trouble when he said "Something must be done" after visiting Welsh coal miners who had been thrown out of work during the Depression.

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On 11/28/2016 at 7:58 PM, Badger said:

I think she may have done something like that in private.  I don't know that she would have done it publicly or in a situation where she was representing the Queen.

The thing with Margaret  is that she was very conscious of her status as a member of The Royal Family, and she could be very mercurial.  One minute she could be very informal and the next she'd be pulling rank.   

Margaret actually looked down on her own grandmother, because May of Teck had been born a Serene, not Royal, Highness.

On 11/29/2016 at 11:47 AM, doodlebug said:

Margaret was a pretty notorious party girl, though.  She both smoked and drank heavily, even at public events.  It's not hard to picture her getting a bit drunk and saying something less than royal.

As an example, here's a rather infamous quote from the old girl. 'It was while Princess Margaret was attending a high-society party in New York that the hostess asked her politely how the Queen was keeping. "Which one?" she is reported to have replied with her typically razor-sharp wit. "My sister, my mother or my husband?"

http://yquotes.com/quotes/princess-margaret/#ixzz4RPwoT1ag
 

Savage!

On 11/30/2016 at 5:56 PM, Eyes High said:

Margaret and Elizabeth's meta conversation musing about their relationship as sisters seemed like the sort of writerly dialogue writers love to write that only happens in plays, films, novels, and nowhere else. It was even worse here, since neither Margaret nor Elizabeth seems sufficiently intellectual or introspective for that kind of conversation.

That bit about when there are two sisters, one has to be the good one and one the bad, really was said by Margaret. And Margaret was actually very intelligent, easily the brightest member of the royal family. After her death Charles said one of the tragedies of her life was that she was far too intelligent for her station in life.

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3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Margaret actually looked down on her own grandmother, because May of Teck had been born a Serene, not Royal, Highness.

Which is ironic, since Serene Highnesses come from one of the parents being royal and one being a "mere" aristocrat.  So technically, Elizabeth and Margaret could have been considered Serene Highnesses in Germany, where the Tecks originated.

Edited by Brn2bwild

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8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

So technically, Elizabeth and Margaret could have been considered Serene Highnesses in Germany, where the Tecks originated.

I don't think this is correct, because their father was a royal highness because his father was a royal highness. Rank always comes through the male line, unless there's been a specific exception (like for Mountbatten's title; he had no sons, so it was decreed his elder daughter could inherit the title).

Edited by dubbel zout

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Ugh, Margaret. I kind of get her resentment and desire to break out of her box. But she's going about it in such a bratty, destructive way I just can't with her. Injecting some levity and personality is good, insults and undermining aren't! Reminds me a bit of my brother, who was intrinsically driven to push boundaries even when it was self-destructive. 

Quit yer bitching, Philip. He does not come off well in this series -- no idea how real it is, I don't follow royals. He's not wrong that the monarchy is out of date and sometimes plain silly. And yet, THIS IS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR, part 237. He's not being a good partner in these moments. It's a hard job for her, too, and I'm sure she'd appreciate more support. I have a feeling he wouldn't find it all so silly if he were the King and not second to his wife.

Was confused by the Queen Mum saying her daughters don't need anything, then following that up by telling her friends how unprepared Elizabeth is. And how they didn't give her anything to do, until they did and she bailed on it. (6 months is a long time to leave Margaret at the helm!) If the best advice she can give is "be silent" no wonder she's not more involved.

Edited by snarktini
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4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think this is correct, because their father was a royal highness because his father was a royal highness. Rank always comes through the male line, unless there's been a specific exception (like for Mountbatten's title; he had no sons, so it was decreed his elder daughter could inherit the title).

Similarly Bertie had to issue a Letter Patent giving Charles and Anne (and any future children) appropriately royal ranks, since it could not come through their mother (even though she was the heiress presumptive).

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

Quit yer bitching, Philip. He does not come off well in this series -- no idea how real it is, I don't follow royals. He's not wrong that the monarchy is out of date and sometimes plain silly. And yet, THIS IS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR, part 237. He's not being a good partner in these moments. It's a hard job for her, too, and I'm sure she'd appreciate more support. I have a feeling he wouldn't find it all so silly if he were the King and not second to his wife.

My thoughts exactly. Damn, Philip, not only did you know what you were getting into, you sought it. You and Dickie angled and connived and maneuvered to marry into THE royal family, way WAY out of your league, and now you're pouty just because of your damn male ego. Philip drives me craaazy, I have never liked him. 

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8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think this is correct, because their father was a royal highness because his father was a royal highness. Rank always comes through the male line, unless there's been a specific exception (like for Mountbatten's title; he had no sons, so it was decreed his elder daughter could inherit the title).

But Phillip's grandfather, Louis Battenberg (later Mountbatten) was the son of Prince Alexander of Hesse, a Royal Highness.  Prince Alexander married Countess Julia von Hauke, and due to their unequal status, Alexander's older brother refused to recognize the marriage as dynastic and Louis and his brothers were given the style Serene Highness. 

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Philip was a royal highness through his father, Andrew of Greece. His mother, Alice of Battenburg, was a serene highness but took the HRH upon marrying Andrew. Again, the male line.

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7 hours ago, snarktini said:

Was confused by the Queen Mum saying her daughters don't need anything, then following that up by telling her friends how unprepared Elizabeth is. And how they didn't give her anything to do, until they did and she bailed on it. (6 months is a long time to leave Margaret at the helm!) If the best advice she can give is "be silent" no wonder she's not more involved.

Yeah this pissed me right off. Slagging off on how Elizabeth was "unprepared" to be Queen when in the previous episode the QM was so defensive about not preparing her! And then mentioning that Margaret got even less education -- yet Margaret seemed to think Elizabeth had the better life and Margaret would be a better queen because she had some wit. She knew even less, certainly she hadn't even had the constitutional history education E had. Argh. Like David/Edward, IMO Margaret would have been a lousy Queen (as it was and is defined now). It's not as if, given her allegedly vaunted intellect, she couldn't have gone out and gotten a real education or found a purpose or passion in life. She certainly had the resources. She grew up knowing the deal. She wanted to party and be glamorous, she didn't actually want the crown. But let's pout and whine and score burns about Daddy loving me best. Nice, sister. Sorry, I just can't with this one.

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25 minutes ago, rubyred said:

It's not as if, given her allegedly vaunted intellect, she couldn't have gone out and gotten a real education or found a purpose or passion in life.

The learned helplessness of the idle rich. 

Did Margaret do additional princess-ing that we're not seeing? If the Fug Girls' weekly roundup is to be believed, today's princes/princesses have causes and events they participate in regularly. (To what extent it's a photo op v. real involvement, I have no idea.) It does seem like the monarchy is doing a better job today of education and giving the "spares" a role and purpose. 

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3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Philip was a royal highness through his father, Andrew of Greece. His mother, Alice of Battenburg, was a serene highness but took the HRH upon marrying Andrew. Again, the male line.

What I'm saying is that sometimes, even when the male in the line is a Royal Highness, if he marries someone of unequal status, their children could be Serene Highnesses, as Louis of Battenberg was.

Edited by Brn2bwild

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On 12/16/2016 at 1:10 PM, snarktini said:

Was confused by the Queen Mum saying her daughters don't need anything, then following that up by telling her friends how unprepared Elizabeth is.

 I don't think the Queen Mother believed that preparation = education. To her mind, Bertie too was unprepared: where he became King too abruptly, Elizabeth became Queen too young. Both were denied a decent interval to metamorphose, as adults, from royal into monarch, from human into figurehead. A novitiate: a concerted interlude to dampen the inner fires of will, "interestedness" and particularity, of attachment to one's own opinions, passions and daily preferences, in favor of appearing to sublimely stand for all.  Time to turn to stone, in a sense -- at least among any but the inner family. 

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1 hour ago, Pallas said:

 I don't think the Queen Mother believed that preparation = education. To her mind, Bertie too was unprepared: where he became King too abruptly, Elizabeth became Queen too young. Both were denied a decent interval to metamorphose, as adults, from royal into monarch, from human into figurehead. A novitiate: a concerted interlude to dampen the inner fires of will, "interestedness" and particularity, of attachment to one's own opinions, passions and daily preferences, in favor of appearing to sublimely stand for all.  Time to turn to stone, in a sense -- at least among any but the inner family. 

Right, I agree that's the gist of the unprepared bit. I've harped on education elsewhere, but in this bit I was just looking at the particular juxtaposition of her mom's statements. How she could assert that Elizabeth is unprepared (which of course she is) while also asserting that Elizabeth doesn't need her anymore. Maybe she doesn't need her as a Mom, but I bet Elizabeth could use some support and advice from a former Queen and wife of a King! Ya know, because she's unprepared.

But, as I've said, if her best advice is to stay silent, that could explain why she's not consulted or needed.

Edited by snarktini
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8 hours ago, snarktini said:

Right, I agree that's the gist of the unprepared bit. I've harped on education elsewhere, but in this bit I was just looking at the particular juxtaposition of her mom's statements. How she could assert that Elizabeth is unprepared (which of course she is) while also asserting that Elizabeth doesn't need her anymore. Maybe she doesn't need her as a Mom, but I bet Elizabeth could use some support and advice from a former Queen and wife of a King! Ya know, because she's unprepared.

But, as I've said, if her best advice is to stay silent, that could explain why she's not consulted or needed.

I agree. Its annoying listening her complain about how unprepared her daughter is when she did nothing in the past to prepare her for it, and is currently doing nothing in the present to help her either. As you pointed out, she could easily give her advice from one Queen to another, she also could have fill in the duties Margaret ended up doing or something.  Elizabeth gets no help from anyone in her family, especially not the one person who had been Queen over a decade.

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In fairness to the Queen Mother, she was a consort, not a monarch. The person to prepare Elizabeth to be queen regnant was her father, the king regnant, and for better or worse, he put more emphasis on her being a daughter than an heiress apparent. But that might have given her the emotional security she needed later. 

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