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Douglas Hodge's character is priming Burton's search for his dream girl because his side of "Topeka" is losing the bidding over the boy. And Burton is a believer in the dreamworld, so he's moving along at a rapid clip. Taka on the other hand can't quite buy into it, so he keeps stalling in his quest for Mom. Anne-Marie Bowen I think is helping him in hopes he'll be helpful in finding the kid after he's properly schooled and grateful. So I think this is okay. Woody is a witting member of Topeka which does fit with his coming from Deutsche Bank with Michael O'Keefe's character. All very understandable, almost developing momentum, except for the relevance of Woody's connection with Tess.

Except we see Tess traveling home to confront the Momster. Except when the dream face off takes place, she changes her mind and heads home. Then she has another dream face off with the Momster, who openly (for a dream, anyhow,) admits she gaslighted Tess for the entire course of a pregnancy. After this, Mom immediately IRL phones Tess to make nice *who makes nice back!* Still having great difficulty imagining how this kind of gaslighting could be done. Then this kind of back and forth, non-consequential result to such a shocking discovery really is making Tess more a cipher than a character. It's really hard to invest in dithering. (By the way, pregnancy tends to change the areolae, which would be especially noticeable on a fair complexion, no? So in addition to whatever the doctor told her way back, there's that, meaning she's had lots of time to really resent the Momster.)

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I haven't seen the latest episode yet.  I plan to watch soon.

In the scene where grandma goes to visit The Boy in the room with mattress on the floor, she takes him a Teddy Bear with coins in it.  It belonged to Tess.  The child is younger at that time.  LATER, Tess finds that Teddy bear in her house, with the coins still inside.  So, who took the Teddy Bear from that room and back to Tess's mom's house?  (Tess said that she AND her sister had one.  So, was this one Tess's or her sister's?)

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That's a good question, Sunny. The bear that Tess removed the coins from didn't it have a "T" on it's sweater? Later on she was fussing with another bear and that also had a "T" on it. So I though both bears were hers.

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On 10/25/2016 at 8:27 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I think one of the main points of the show is what is a dream and what is reality.  That is a big part of the mystery.  Clearly the main characters are having a mix of dream and reality and the lines between the two for them are becoming blurred. 

I am enjoying the show as well, it might be just us 3 based on the lack of responses.  Episode two did clear some things up, slowly.

The people who died in the house in episode one appear to have been in a sleep circle and dreaming together, not a suicide.  And obviously the house across the street that blew up was a center for this as well

It seems some of the people are able to use their dream to predict the future, to some degree.  The "Topeka" accounts were doing well it seems because he was having dreams that guided his investments.  Tess as well seems to be using her dreams to predict future hot product lines.  The green and black sneakers were the colors she used for the crown she designed in episode one that she used in her pitch. 

The woman in the nursing home it seems was likely involved in these dream sequences as well and may have been turned catatonic as a result, by some mishap? 

Still very confusing about the kid.  He is being protected by someone, those two guys, question of course is why  ANd how is he related to everyone?  Has to be more than just Tess' son, since their is the picture of him in the record store which would be long before he was born.  Another future prediction? 

Episode two I think opened up many more questions and answers and made it more interesting than the first episode.

 

On 11/14/2016 at 10:46 PM, kat165 said:

I wonder if there will even be a 2nd season. Any one know how it's doing in the ratings?

Not well.  Rumor is it will not be renewed.

 

The character named Tess played by French actor Lizzie Brocheré appears to have been lifted whole cloth out of Gibson's PATTERN RECOGNITION (novel) which has a remarkably similar protagonist named CAYCE POLLARD.  Both Cayce and Tess have back stories about mothers living remotely in intentional communities. Both work as "cool hunters" who get paid for steering advertisers and marketeers in new directions.  Both have incredibly troubling dreams.  That said, I enjoy this new show.  Will be sorry to see it end.  It also lifts and extends a lot of the ideas from DiCaprio's INCEPTION

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This last episode was so strange because it didn't have (I think) any dream sequences. The weird "sex" through a semitransparent sheet of cloth was I thought supposed to be more of the perversity. The theme seemed at first to be finding real world clues to the respective mysteries. But then, when Tess heard that Taka had seen the boy at the Belgian consulate *she left* rather than pump him for information. This is so perverse it has become impossible for me to identify with her cause, which is....

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Yeah, I thought I was following things this episode,  but when Tess ran instead of trying to investigate Taka further, and when she had Research Dude in the car waiting, I just felt like: WTF, show?

Isn't Taka exactly what she's been looking for? Someone who actually has info that might be actionable? And she's fleeing?

I think her sister is terrible, but still-- stick around and find a way to get Taka's help.

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Thanks, Phil. I just realized that I forgot all about this show. I don't watch it live as I watch
some else at that time period, but I forgot all about trying to remember to look for it On
Demand.

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I'm finding this series more and more interesting with each new episode.  Random thoughts:

It was surprising and yet not surprising to find out that Woody had once been a member of Aeskyton (Green Sneakers Cult)--first Tess' flashback a couple of episodes back and now Tess and Woody meeting for breakfast.  Woody's such a gray-area character.  Is he a good guy or a bad guy and how are "good" and "bad" defined in this show?  He seems to have left Aeskyton out of fear, but he's now allied himself with the adversarial Topeka, which may be an equally fearsome and ruthless organization; the groups are battling for control of Special Boy.  And I found Woody's statement regarding Elizabeth--"I never meant to cause her any pain"--especially ludicrous, since he intentionally entered her dreams to conduct a prolonged, deliberate and methodical seduction of her while she was in the dream state.  As she said, it was rape.  Also, maybe I'm reading too much into stuff, but could Woody be Special Boy's biological father--maybe not as a result of a relationship with Tess, but maybe as a [reluctant, but coerced by cult leader] sperm donor?  Tess did say that Woody was the only one who visited her while she was in the psychiatric hospital.  And it seemed as if Woody had no problem abducting Special Boy for Topeka while the Boy was being transported.

I, too, found it strange that Tess would not want to discuss with Taka their common interests.  I could understand that she would not want to mention things in front of Sabine, but she could have at least given her number to Taka or asked for his business card so they could get together later without Sabine.  And I don’t understand her running back to Bill, who seems untrustworthy, at best.

With Bill, is anything he says the truth?  He seems to be lying about almost everything, even about not being able to dream lucidly.  It would make sense that he's the one controlling the faceless dream people.  Is he working strictly for himself or is he allied with either Aeskyton or Topeka?  Or maybe he's afraid of what may happen should the two groups actually engage in an all-out war to control the world and is just trying to find a way to survive the anticipated conflict.  Does he want Special Boy for his own use?

Regarding Sabine, I'm wondering if Sabine is resentful of Tess since it seems that Momster lost interest in Sabine at a very early age and started concentrating almost solely on Tess.  Maybe the childhood neglect is what led to Sabine's controlling personality.  Also, is Sabine envious because Tess was the one who was "chosen" to be Special Boy's mother?  (Does Tess know about Sabine's particular propensity for, uh, "non-contact" sex?)  Is it possible that Sabine is secretly working for/with Topeka?

So, according to what David said to Taka, Special Boy has almost Messianic characteristics.  I thought David was kind of an appealing character--he seemed so earnest and a true believer, despite being ejected from Aeskyton because he was deemed lacking is some way.

Taka's mom (Kumiko) seems as if she was a prolific artist when she was still capable of creating her sculptures.  I would assume if Kumiko had had any kind of a following during her productive years as a sculptor that her works would be immensely valuable on the current market given that she's in a profound and, for all anyone knows, permanent catatonic state.  However, her works seem to be scattered all over the city.  Are the Green Sneakers responsible for her works being dispersed?  I did notice that that cylindrical Kumiko sculpture Tess and Bill saw (when they were  dreaming together a couple of episodes ago) was studded with old, black typewriter keys.

Burton seems to be the only one who's being proactive in trying to find what he's looking for.  I thought the scenes in the storage facility were spooky as hell even before the power outage.  No telling what kind of people you could encounter in a place like that. When the lights went out, I thought Burton may have fallen into the dream state instead of it being a power outage.  It's chilling to think that The Woman in Red (whom we now know is a journalist who was writing a book about Aeskyton) is probably locked away someplace, totally drugged up so that she is forced to sleep and dream in a way that's controlled by Aeskyton.

At the beginning, it seemed to me as if Burton was the most vulnerable/expendable of the three main characters because he didn't seem to have the same capabilities that Tess and Taka may have.  However, ever since that scene a couple of episodes back where Woody talks about Burton's abilities, Burton seems to be the one who'd be most effective in trying to shape events while dreaming.  I also thought it was quite compassionate of Burton to take Elizabeth to a psychiatric hospital instead of to the police after she shot Woody.  I kind of cheered for Elizabeth when she said that it had felt great to shoot Woody.  (Did Woody refer to her as "Bizzy" in that scene where he's bleeding on the floor of the entrance to his apartment building?)

Are Burton, Taka and Tess "special" but not as special as The Boy?

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Quote

The character named Tess played by French actor Lizzie Brocheré appears to have been lifted whole cloth out of Gibson's PATTERN RECOGNITION (novel) which has a remarkably similar protagonist named CAYCE POLLARD.

Thank you, I was trying to remember in what book I had read that.

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What is the point in someone wanting to tear down the papers posted around town with The Boy on them?  The guy was madly tearing the papers off of the bulletin board, but doing it in a helter skelter manner, leaving many floating around.  If you want them gone, why not really take them down, put in a secure bag.....I don't get it. 

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Finally this ep made it onto On Demand. We must have the slowest cable in America.

I also found it odd that Tess left Taka after he said he'd seen the boy. But I thought that she
just couldn't take any more of her sister's crap. That sister is weird and creepy. Cheesecloth
sex, the masterbating. She needs to get off/out of Tess's shit and check out her own.

I couldn't understand Tess's running back to Bill either.

So much yes to your post, officetemp.

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Wow!  It feels as if this show is finally hitting its stride!  Great episode.  Need to digest and will comment more later.

Re:  the previews--disappointed to see that there are only two episodes left.  I hope the viewership has increased enough that USA will renew the series.  Fingers crossed.

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Personally, I've been convinced since we were allowed to see Bill misrepresent the conclusion of the dream he and Tess shared, he was playing her. I still am inclined to think he's behind the faceless men, who are trying to follow Tess in her dreams to the boy, but step in ahead of her. But if she is going to take the warning seriously why is she tipping her hand by telling Bill? If she doesn't, why is she leaving the phone? Tess being sexy isn't enough, she needs to be a character too, one who actually has reason for doing things other than it's in the script.

I'm still convinced that Woody is Topeka, even if he's a nuanced villain instead of a cardboard villain. Topeka sold the boy, which is slaving, which is really evil stuff, so yeah, Woody's a villain even if he rues dream seduction of his boss's wife. Not seeing quite how dream seduction is rape, but it still seems pretty rotten to me, so there's that too. Boo Woody!

Momster's crank psychotherapy pseudocult, Aeskyton, seems pretty crappy too, but it seems to be a for profit spinoff from Green Sneakers. The thing about Momster (and Sabine too) is I don't see how they could possibly have done what the show has been telling us they did, which is erase a nine month pregnancy from Tess' memory. 

As for Green Sneakers, Taka is right, recruiting Alice to murder the Belgian ambassador is horrible. As vengeance for the mass murders that apparently kicked off the kidnapping of the boy the series is more or less about, maybe understandable. But Anne Marie Bowen can do her own dirty work. By the way, it may have been Bill, if he's running the faceless men, who offed the paranoid Belgian who sold the kid (a Green Sneaker renegade we are told this episode.) 

A lot of the excitement in this episode I think was because Burton and Taka have been developing not just agency, but are subverting their opponents by sussing out the weak links. Burton has spotted Woody's weakness, which is a road into Topeka. He's forced information about Lady Love from Momster and now is pointed at saving the boy. (A little annoyed that a black man's opposition to selling people isn't enough of a motive, though.)  Taka has spotted Alice's guilt, a road into Green Sneaker. (Again a little annoyed that a detective can't be motivated by his commitment to catching killers, but it has to be *personal*) Tess...is very fetching as a damsel in distress.

Have a depressing feeling the unmade second season will get into how the boy also existed, maybe, or was prophesied in the previous generation, Kumiko's and the musician who made the album.

Edited by sjohnson
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Did no one watch Thurs ep? Which was really good. I'm just catching up On Demand. Bill blinking in and was cool. Sabine was almost likeable. How does Bill have such agency? I thought he couldn't dream. Maybe Tess was never pregnant in waking life, but only in dream life. When she was in the hospital she could have been so drugged up that she wasn't in touch with her dream life and that's when the pregnancy happened, evolved and she gave birth. Then the dream workers took the baby from her. Perhaps the mother went in and got the baby away. Which is why there is no phsycial edvendence of Tess's pregnancy.

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Well, personally I haven't commented because I don't understand the episode. It seemed very exciting but...

If Tess was physically pregnant, then she knew it and she's been helping Momster gaslight Tess all along. In which case, her connecting Taka and Tess (which is something I still think Tess would have done the moment she heard him talk about the boy at the Belgian consulate) makes no sense whatsoever. 

But much as I like the dream pregnancy idea, it seems pretty clear that Burton and the boy were supposed to be physically present in the real world. And without actually moving from the apartment building to the grassy verge we last saw them on. A dream pregnancy produces a boy with a material body. Well, I guess for once in scifi the kid really is special!

On the other hand, the musician from decades before, the one whose one album has one track (that's why he's so obscure I think?) who was apparently in the same Bohemian circle as the young Kumiko, was drawing the boy long before he was conceived. Speaking of the dirty deed, Woody as baby-daddy?

For all the events in this episode, there were very few dramatic choices. Sabine hooking up Taka and Tess, Tess paying attention to Taka was pretty much it but kind of anticlimactic in their nature. Thus this episode is very incomplete in a way, so I'm waiting for the finish.

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s, I didn't get that the boy was physical present. Do you mean when he and Burton were
in that bright green grassy field? I thought that was just a continuation of the dream.
But Burton does have that special power maybe to bring dreams into reality.

I kind of like that song of the old musician that they play. I wonder if it's available.
It's kind of haunting and so representative of the time period I am wondering if it's
a "real" song, only obscure. I feel like I almost know the rest of the words.

I hope Woody isn't the b-daddy. He's so shady!

Me, too. I often have a hard time understanding this show and the sequences.

Edited by kat165
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I thought they were really on the grass, too. I wouldn't bet money on it, but that's what I thought when I watched.

I am not generally confident that I understand the show at all times, and I don't know if it's because of my own mental capabilities or if it's because the show is deliberately hedging.

It's been shown that some dram events do manifest in waking reality -- like with Andy's death.

I, too, wondered who the father of The Boy is, or whether there's an implication that he doesn't have one.

Is Tess herself 30 years old? Did someone see the boy in the future, like how Tess herself sees future trends?

I still don't understand why Tess was so pro-Bill/anti-Taka before Woody changed her mind, and why she then trusted Woody all of a sudden. She seems to be very easily influenced.

Taka is pretty shady to basically be willing to sell out Tess to save his mom. I wish he had told her the whole truth. Maybe they could have worked together to save his mom AND free Tess's son. I'm looking forward to seeing how Burton handles his next moves. He still doesn't know Tess or Taka, does he?

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Meant to comment on last week's episode before this but got sidetracked with other non-tv things going on.  This post contains comments on the last two episodes.  (I haven't read any recaps of the episodes yet, so a lot of my questions may be answered somewhere else.)

I think they've revealed a lot of things in the last two episodes, but everything that they reveal just adds more questions about where this whole story is headed.  It just seems to get more convoluted the further they go and everything seems to have past connections to everything else.

It's likely that I missed something in a previous episode, but I'm starting to wonder whether all the parties--with the exception of Bill--competing for The Boy are just different factions of the same organization that just happened to have a falling out.  Is Topeka a place, a group, an idea, or maybe all three and more?  Topeka, Vert (Green Sneakers Cult, after the name on the shoe box lids), Aeskyton, The Firm, H. Robert, Mr. Song(?), the Belgian ambassador:  they all seem to know one another, and not in the way that competitors in the business world have knowledge of the parties against whom they're competing.  The connections seem more personal.  Alice did mention that the Belgian ambassador had been "one of us" and had betrayed them.  I think what is scary is how the various factions are wasting so much time trying to get control of The Boy while Bill is free to perfect his dream-controlling technology.  All the groups should be pooling their resources to oppose Bill instead of trying to get the upper hand on the other factions, I think.  The question is, though, if one of the factions does succeed in defeating Bill, will that faction make sure to destroy his methods and his mechanisms, or will that faction keep the technology and methodology  for themselves so they themselves can gain control over the entire dream world?

How did Bill--who claimed an inability to dream lucidly--become so adept at accomplishing physical things in the dream world to the point where he could teach his minions how to do things also?  The whole vibrating thing--which kind of reminds me of something in a particular episode of Star Trek Original Series where alien beings were out of phase with "normal" time--which allows him/his minion to attain superhuman strength, is so strange and daunting.  How does one overcome something like that, if one is opposed to Bill?  He beat the crap out of Burton.  Still can't decide whether or not he controls the faceless dream people or whether he killed them.  By the way, it seems as if most of the faceless dream people may have been Aeskyton/Vert members at one time.  How did he subvert them to his will to the point where he could control their actions in the dream world?  [Also, the drawing of Bill on the flyers that Tess found seem to have been drawn by her also.  When?  At the same time that she drew the picture(s) of The Boy?]

Kumiko:  In a previous post, I had stated that the cylindrical sculpture that Bill and Tess had seen while dreaming together had been studded with old, black typewriter keys.  I'm thinking that I was probably wrong about what I seen and that what was actually attached to the cylinder were the same type of viewing glass eyepieces that Kumiko had installed in the compartment that she had built for Vert and that Taka was using to find Tess.  I'm wondering if the sculpture and the compartment are inside out versions of each other.  If one looks into the eyepieces attached to the sculpture, would one be able to see the dream world also?  When did Kumiko build the seeking chamber--before or after she went catatonic?  Since The Boy is seven years old and Kumiko has been in a catatonic state for seven years, did The Boy's birth--or some event connected to it--trigger the change in her state of being?  Thought the scene where Alice starts to channel Kumiko, then Kumiko starts talking with Taka on her own was pretty cool.  I also liked the scene in the last episode where Taka and Kumiko are talking on the park bench, especially since Kumiko, in her dream state interactions with Taka, doesn't seem particularly scared or worried--she just wants to come back to the waking world so she can be with her son again.

To me, the dream-invading, crack smoking woman in white is the most repellent character in the whole series, even more so than Bill.  I find nothing even remotely redeeming about her.  She's all affectation and depravity.  I don’t know if she's supposed to be irresistible, but the smugly superior attitude, the oily, slicked-down hair, exaggerated make-up, rotten-looking teeth and dream blackmail are irritating and annoying.  Even though Woody labeled her a "succubus," she seems as if she's more of a mental vampire feeding off of other people's dreams because she has none of her own.  Wouldn't bother me if Bill or someone else decides to dispose of her.  [Is "luster" (lustre?) a street name for crack or is the drug she's taking supposed to be something else entirely?]

Woody:  What is his game, anyway?  I was thinking that he may be slightly insane because of his behavior, but now I'm wondering if he's really just completely terrified because of what may happen in the future if the conflict between the factions really starts to escalate.  His whole attitude may be "WTF, the world's coming to an end anyway, so I'll just do whatever it takes to save my own skin."  I still do think that he may be The Boy's biological father.  Could be Woody's parents brought Woody into Aeskyton at Momster's direction for the express purpose of fathering The Boy.  That whole "I care for you" thing with Tess was so eye-rolling, though.  By the way, if the woman in white is a "succubus," does that make Woody an "incubus"?

If I'm not mistaken, Burton, Tess and Taka first became aware of each other in the dream state during the episode when Alice killed the Belgian ambassador in Marcello's.  I can't remember if Burton has ever encountered Tess in the waking world, but I think he has yet to meet Taka.  If they ever do get together, I think they'll make a good team, mostly because of what Woody said to Burton:  "If they ever find out what you can do, you're going to scare a lot of people."  [Paraphrasing.]  Burton seems to be able to  find/open/use portals into and out of the dream world (Narnia, anyone?).  Taka and Tess seem to have different dream abilities from Burton:  Taka's is maybe finding people, plus Ann-Marie seemed apprehensive when he pushed her away that time when they were dreaming; Tess has already demonstrated she can kill someone in a dream when she took a pickaxe to that guy's chest.  As a team, it seems as if they wouldn't be susceptible to manipulation and would be able to overcome whatever obstacles anybody would try to throw in their way.  If they banded together, they could probably prevent Bill and/or Topeka/other factions from taking over the dream world.

On 12/17/2016 at 1:22 PM, kat165 said:

. . . I kind of like that song of the old musician that they play. I wonder if it's available.
It's kind of haunting and so representative of the time period I am wondering if it's
a "real" song, only obscure. I feel like I almost know the rest of the words. . . .

I also am starting to like the song they keep playing.  It kind of gets stuck in your head--not to the point that it becomes an earworm, but it definitely lingers.  Still have no idea what the lyrics are, even though I watch the show with closed-captioning on sometimes.

 

Has anyone seen/heard anything definitive as to the renewal/cancellation of the series?

Edited by officetemp · Reason: clarifications; spelling errors
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1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

As I recall Burton and Tess, both fairly upscale, live in the same apartment building, and have passed in the hall. 

Which leads to the question:  Were they both steered to that same apartment building when they were house-hunting?

 

By the way, here's a [most likely incomplete] list of some Falling Water phrases:

His name is. . .

Don't tell Bill.

Purity of the Data

"I'm allergic to peanuts!"  [Will Woody die from unknowingly eating a peanut product?]

Mere Anarchy

Rare Earth Metals

Topeka

Vert

Aeskyton

"Luster"  (lustre?)

Edited by officetemp · Reason: clarification
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officetemp, thank you for your insightful and thoughtprovoking post. I wonder
about most of the same things.

A small aside about the succubus/vampire: how is she getting high? She doesn't seem
to hold the smoke in long enough for it to have any effect no matter how super powerful/
potent whatever it is might be.

I also think the various groups are branches or rather off-shoots of what was probably,
in the beginning of all this, one large group. Who maybe no longer share the same view-
point.

Except for Bill. On think he's his own separate entity.

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Well, at this point I'm not sure whether the boy has any physical reality at all. That would explain how Sabine wouldn't know Tess was dream pregnant? Momster seems to be running her own personal Dianetics clinic versus Green Sneakers' Scientology, so now I have no idea why she sold the boy to Green Sneakers? 

When Taka didn't push the button, Kumiko knew he hadn't committed to Green Sneakers, hence the kidnapping of dream Sabine, and the pushing him around like a little boy. But it seems a little sudden that Taka was strong enough to beat her. 

Strictly speaking, the entire series is apparently God: The Wonder Years. Formally, the whole thing is nothing other than what James allowed to happen in order for his mother to find Him. Now that He's found her, He'll take care of the rest. The unhappy involvement of the girl friends with Green Sneakers is only as important as Taka and Burton. That's not actually very important, so if the show's canceled I think it'll be no great loss. The story is complete in every real respect. It's not like Tess is going to figure stuff out or has anything to teach, she doesn't stop to think, she's just intuitive. The show presumably thinks that superior to mere (masculine?) rationality. 

Bill the Borg as Big Bad didn't work for me. He was plainly outclassed by James.

Edited by sjohnson
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I suppose that I have missed portions that I need to see in order to interpret the finale.  I suppose it will be interesting to view the last few episodes in their entirety, knowing how it wraps up.  

Please advise how the Green Sneaker people and others knew that The Boy had all of these magnificent powers?

If The Boy (James) has all of these powers, then why didn't he heal the stab wound in Burton's side?  And why couldn't James disable those people who were coming after him?  And if he wanted to get back with his mother, why couldn't he will himself to her, if he has all this power?

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48 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I don't think the show answered any of your questions, SunnyBeBe.

I felt bad for Burton.

Oh my.....I thought that maybe, I had just missed those parts.   It would be nice to know how they were alerted to the fact that James was to be born and was a miracle child.  And, it would be nice for us to have seem him doing something that proved his abilities. 

If there is another season, I wish that they would find a new story.  Even if they keep the same actors, make it a completely different story, like American Horror Story.   This one just wasn't coherent enough.  Maybe, the writers were just trying too hard to be creative and shocking, without much thought to reason. 

The first time that I heard that song they kept playing, it reminded me so much of Robert Plant's voice.  I am a huge Plant fan, so, I know his voice pretty well..., but, I couldn't find him in the credits.  Does anyone know if it is indeed Robert?  I read somewhere about this Robert Eacey person. (On you tube.)  But, I don't believe that.  Why no other credits, no video, no photos?  Odd.

 

'

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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It all wrapped up rather nicely if you don't think about it or try to understand it. And after seeing that highway (in the end/also on the way to Tess's mom's) several times now I think I've actually been on it.

I am baffled as to why the woman in red stabbed Burton. Frankly, after all this, it's the only question I'd like an answer to. The rest was sort of a dreamlike convoluted mess. But it had the tone of a real story. :)

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Yeah, that's my problem.  I think about storylines a lot and I probably over analyze things too.  Still, I don't think I'm being too picky about this series.  It did have such great potential.  I"m a huge dream fan, so, I found it particularly amusing. 

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Me, too, Sunny. Even though the ending wasn't that satisfying it definitely had that dreamlike quality. I enjoyed it too for the most part. I will miss

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I binged this off OnDemand (no fast forwarding allowed!) and was pleasantly surprised.  Until the end.

There were some genuine frights and interesting WTFuckery.   Equal parts Jacob's Ladder, Twin Peaks, and Inception.

Unfortunately, the journey was much better than the destination.

Apparently, all this has happened before and it will all happen again.  YAWN.

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Definitely one of the strangest shows I ever watched.   Basically the show was...

...a girl dreams of the baby she doesn't have and then discovers she did have and could find and save him in her dreams.

A lot of disjointed action ensues.   A lot of the character's motivations were never really explained.  I'm not even sure after the last episode who were the bad guys and good guys.

I feel like I just dreamed it. 

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I guess my strongest reaction to the finale was disappointment.  This series seemed to have so much potential.  And I thought that the other characters didn't do enough to help Burton.

Any word on whether this show has been renewed?

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I have never seen people who so could easily just lie down and go to sleep.  I mean, unless I'm dog tired, I can't just lay down and be sound asleep in 5 minutes. 

Does anyone know if this series is being aired on FX now?  I saw the tail end of some people sleeping and a couple awoke and tried to wake the others by hitting the couch with pillows.  (In attempt to save them from danger in their dream.)  It happened pretty quickly, so, I'm not sure if it was Falling Water and a scene that I missed and didn't recognize OR if it's a new show.   FX has a new one called Legions that looks like it's from a similar vein to Falling Water.  I think it was on last night. 

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On 12/24/2016 at 4:31 PM, kat165 said:

Me, too, Sunny. Even though the ending wasn't that satisfying it definitely had that dreamlike quality. I enjoyed it too for the most part. I will miss it.

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‘Falling Water’ Renewed For Season 2 By USA, Rémi Aubuchon Joins As Showrunner - Deadline

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Possibly a better fit for sibling Syfy than general entertainment network USA, Falling Water is the latter’s lowest-rated series, averaging 461,000 viewers and 0.14 adults 18-49 rating in Live+Same Day. But its dense mythology, solid 30% L+3 DVR gains and steady viewership — an indication that the show has built a small but devoted fan base — made Falling Water a solid binge prospect for a streaming service. As we reported in December, the series was taken out and landed a deal with Amazon for exclusive SVOD rights.

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This is great news. The show wasn't as flashy as Legion, which technically is the same show (David/the boy struggling to get free,) but I have to say I for one cared more for the people in this show. But then I thought that other show was kind of silly/nasty in its treatment of mental illness. 

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As I understand it, Falling Water season 2 premieres Jan. 6 at 10.  That's a Saturday, so apparently the show is already canceled, and this is a burn off run. Has something to do with finishing the story line for Amazon?

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On 11/23/2017 at 9:41 AM, sjohnson said:

Despite all my inability to comprehend anything Tess does, I'm really stoked to hear there's another season coming.

I found this very surprising, but, just found a place that says Season 2 starts soon.  About that time, most of the USA network's sites starting going out, but, maybe, this one will work.  

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/falling-water/episode-1-season-2/shadowman/794794/

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I wonder if I'm the only one who is happy that it's coming back--for some reason I really was into this show and I thought it was cancelled--I wanted to find out what the heck was in Topeka.

Rewatching some of Season 1 today to try to remember where it left off.

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The boy, Michael, had rewritten reality so that he was with his mother Tess.

Burton was a captive of the Green Sneaker cult, who have brainwashed his dream lover, the Woman in Red, who was a journalist investigating the cult, taken prisoner when she knew too much. 

Taka found Sabine, Tess' sister, wakened from her prison sleep, but we are given to understand that Kumiko, his mother (leader of the cult in Topeka, aka the dream world,) has done things to Sabine's mind. She remembers nothing. Presumably Kumiko has hopes of regaining Taka's obedience. 

Woody was still playing the middle between the cult, Aeskyton (Tess' mother's psychobabble version of the cult,) White Sands (Douglas Hodges' outfit) and Bill Boerg, the evil billionaire with the new dream tech. 

The cult, Bill and H. Robert of White Sand still want to control the Boy, some more benevolently/less cruelly/maybe not as maniacally as others (?) but I'm afraid I've forgotten if Isla was just a front for Bill Boerg or some other player. 

The Boy is like David Haller of Legion, except with a reason for being kind of passive.

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Glad that this show is back.

I'm confused, though.  I thought that Woody had sacrificed himself during the dream confrontation with Bill in last season's finale in order that Tess and the boy could escape?

More later when I've had time to digest.

New actress playing Sabine!

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You can definitely tell these are new showrunners. I believe they've retconned elements they didn't like. 

My first impression is that "Shadowman" is just a evildoer doing evil for the sake of doing evil, which is kind of boring.

Also, that Burton would have been much more interested in finding the Woman in Red than in taking down the Firm. Or that Bill Boerg's outfit would be the first target. Or that H. Robert's White Sand would be useful in taking either down. Or for that matter that the actual policeman, as opposed to the "security" fixer would take point in law enforcement. Also, the insider trading the Firm did relied on dream info from Woody, which doesn't leave a trail to follow. Burton's magic box to open the safe wasn't believable, nor did I really believe he found the magic button when the FBI couldn't, and these events are especially odd, given that Burton could have discovered both in dreams. In the fictional universe, Burton has dream powers, not using them, instead relying on imaginary tech and good luck comes across as more foolishness. Or like the new showrunners want to avoid the freaky dream sequences they apparently thought tuned out viewers. Don't know why they'd worry about it though, because a Saturday ten o'clock show is there because it's canceled already. So maybe not? None of Burton is really working out this episode, not even the work out sequence. Taka and Burton are workout buddies? Really? I might believe that if they were working out the rules of the dream world (which is no longer "Topeka" apparently.") These things Burton are all little things, but at the moment it's all little bad things. 

All for sisterly love, but as of now we have to think Sabine (and the now non-existent mother) gaslighted Tess for eight years about the birth of her son. No, I don't think you get over that in six months. I thought "James" (I could have sworn the name he chose was "Michael" my bad apparently) might have been Tess' dream child. That would explain how the dead rocker knew what he looked like years before he was born. It is unclear why Tess is in "witness protection," because the only violence from the Firm was a suicide. The massacre of the cult members, the retaliatory assassinations of the perpetrators, the murder of the white Anne Marie Bowen, nope, none of it the Firm. Woody's dream sex with his boss' wife was nasty, but it's hard to see how witness protection would consider this kind of thing a problem. Or how witness protection would even help. But then, when the witness is meeting up with family members it's not really a witness protection program. 

It is not clear the Boy still has reality altering powers. But it does seem clear if he does, the plot will not let him use them, because it would short circuit any physical jeopardy. The Boy undid several realities in the climax of last season, so it's hard to remember who was where at the end. In one version the cult and Bill Boerg basically slaughtered each other. In another H. Robert was I think killed. I'll have to re-watch.

Henry Bromell of course died before the first episode was produced, but it appears the main creative following up on Bromell's work was Blake Masters. He's gone. It appears that Remi Aubuchon, David Weddle and Bradley Thompson, more orthodox scifi people, have taken over. They are not deep thinkers, and their creative record is mixed. Falling Skies inevitably crashed and burned because Aubchon couldn't figure out that space war is stupid. BattleStar Galactica were never anything more than a hysterical 9/11 spasm in love with itself. If there's anything that needs deep thinking it's a character who can rewrite reality, as witness the failures in Legion. If I was to venture a guess these guys are going to make all their decisions based on money, getting rid of expensive dream sequences as much as possible, ditching old characters to save on paying actors, keeping it all simple physical jeopardy over the MacGuffin (or "James" as the series calls him.,) selling Burton as the poor man's Idris Elba, etc. 

But I hope I'm wrong. I have a tendency towards pessimism, so I'll be watching.

PS Somewhere I saw a comment that they are making another season because Amazon picked up the first one. Having a complete cult product in the inventory for a streaming service seems to make a kind of sense, but making a continuation that doesn't want to continue doesn't. So maybe the new guys are just having trouble with the new budget?

Edited by sjohnson

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Goodness.    It's like a whole different show.   Much more talking and waking action.   Much less dreaming.

I'll stick with it to see where they take it--mostly because I like the lead actors, but I liked the dreaminess of the first season.

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Still having trouble with the retcons. James is not the apocalyptic Boy but just another dreamer? It is not at all clear yet as to how child dreamers  are useful, given that the only dreamer who seems to be using his dreaming powers for gain is Woody. And Sabine is all bent out of shape because Kumiko was somehow manipulating Taka by being catatonic? But Sabine gaslighted Tess for years about how Tess didn't have a baby? 

The drill and the drain cleaner bits were properly horrifying, but a very, very different kind of dreaminess from first season. I found the first season much more stylish, so far at least. Burton's new military background is very inappropriate to his previous fixer character I thought. 

Entering the dream world is falling *into* water, not falling water. Shouldn't they rename the show. 

So far, losing Burton's obsession with the Woman in Red, Taka's drive to waken his mother, Tess' search for the Boy has taken away the character motivations and they've just been replaced with a Big Bad they're all going to fight because. 

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I caught a little of this, but, need to catch up.  It was confusing, though, this thread helps.  Please tell me, is the woman playing Burton's love interest this season, the same woman that he was obsessed with last season (Lady in Red)?  If so, she looks different to me. Also, when he gave her cash and ride to the bus or train station, they didn't seem to have much chemistry.  It was like they were so supposed to hate saying goodbye, but, it didn't  really bother them.  ?

I will give it another go, but, I wonder if I'm only going to get frustrated again.  

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This season is so different but episode 3 seemed to get things on track after cleaning up some season 1 stuff. They got rid of the woman in red, Taka's mom & tossed Sabine in jail to free up some storyline space and I'm okay with all of that! Those stories moved too slow/were too vague for me. Are the green shoe people still a thing? Is the guy chasing Tess with them?

The best thing about this season is having all the leads working together (and sharing information!) and not searching for the boy.

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