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Luckylyn

Westworld Management: What's The Real Agenda?

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There was some talk in the first episode about their being some sort of a secret agenda beyond running a theme park.  I thought it would be good to have a thread for us to discuss theories about what is really going on.

My theory is that immortality is the goal.  They want to someday when a human is dying be able to implant that person's consciousness in a host.   That is why they keep putting in updates to make the hosts more and more realistic.  I think they want the hosts to become independent of programing so that when they implant their minds in a host they don't have to worry about being controlled by programmers. 

Edited by Luckylyn
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I think there is more than one agenda, and the ultimate battle will be which one comes out on top. Management has an agenda, Operations has a different one to that, and Corporate have their own which is probably the most evil, as it usually is in Hollywoodland. I like your idea about immortality, that may be the Management goal. I can see Management having a vision of a marriage between human and cybernetic. This might also be Robert Ford's vision, as he has said humanity has gone as far as it can, and a new breed of human/machine is the only way forward. But he may have a different agenda again.

Corporate, I suspect, just want to turn them all into warriors, but against whom I have no idea, yet.

Dolores will be the fly in the ointment, pardon the pun. As she is the oldest host, she therefore has every update, and all the original coding, in her system. The Microsoft 1.0, if you like. She's been around long enough, and interacted with enough hosts and guests, to know everything that has happened. She's also the "Judas steer" - where she leads, the others will follow. I'm fascinated to see how this will develop. I'm betting there will be an escape into the 'real' world at some stage, and then, as Doc said, "you're gonna see some serious shit."

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The military applications of the hosts would be interesting.  They can infiltrate to be the perfect spy or assassin.   They could be soldiers making it possible that no human lives get lost in war.  That makes Fords updates to make the hosts more real even more risky because the hosts could become independent in the outside world and put the whole population in danger.

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They could be more than a spy or assassin.  They could be right under your nose as a secretly controlled judge or politician.  Or the President.  That's what I think they're for.  But now they're at risk of an Ex Machina scenario.

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The Manchurian candidate?  

Like the real world, I think the agenda is to make a lot of money. 

Edited by ennui

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On 10/11/2016 at 6:15 PM, peach said:

They could be more than a spy or assassin.  They could be right under your nose as a secretly controlled judge or politician.  Or the President.  That's what I think they're for.  But now they're at risk of an Ex Machina scenario.

I'm thinking the same.

The endgame of corporate is to turn influential figures into robots that do their bidding. Start with their own clientele, the extremely wealthy, and then go from there, politicians, judges, etc.

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On 10/9/2016 at 2:06 PM, Luckylyn said:

There was some talk in the first episode about their being some sort of a secret agenda beyond running a theme park.  I thought it would be good to have a thread for us to discuss theories about what is really going on.

My theory is that immortality is the goal.  They want to someday when a human is dying be able to implant that person's consciousness in a host.   That is why they keep putting in updates to make the hosts more and more realistic.  I think they want the hosts to become independent of programing so that when they implant their minds in a host they don't have to worry about being controlled by programmers. 

I think that perhaps Arnold may have had this idea. Perhaps he actually transferred his consciousness to a robot before he died, and the 'voices' the androids hear in their heads is in fact Arnold's consciousness, not just his programming. Ford, on the other hand, seems to simply want to be a God, and justify it by the fact that he's flesh and blood whereas the androids aren't. I think there's a part of him that may know that he's delving into some areas that are wrong though. Here's a bit of dialogue that he has with Bernard in The Chestnut (Episode 2) that I think suggests this:

**

Bernard Lowe: We retired the two hosts in question. You taught me how to make them, but not how hard it is to turn them off.

Dr. Robert Ford: You can't play God without being acquainted with the devil. There's something else bothering you, Bernard. I know how that head of yours works.

Bernard Lowe: The photograph alone ... couldn't have caused that level of damage to Abernathy, not without some other ...uh ... outside interference.

Dr. Robert Ford: You think it's sabotage? Imagine someone's been ... diddling with our creations?

Bernard Lowe: It's the simplest solution.

Dr. Robert Ford: Ah, Mr. Occam's razor. The problem, Bernard, is that what you and I do ... is ... so complicated. We practice witchcraft. We speak the right words. Then we create life itself ... out of chaos. William of Occam was a 13th century monk. He can't help us now, Bernard. He would have us burned at the stake.

**

There's also the exchange that he had with Peter Abernathy (former professor version), and the dialogue that he has afterwards with Bernard that suggests deep down he is actually unsure that he's really on the right path...

**

Dr. Robert Ford: What is your itinerary?

Peter Abernathy: To meet my maker.


Dr. Robert Ford: Uh-huh. (Ford glances over at Bernard, then looks back at Abernathy.) Well, you're in luck. And what do you want to say to your maker?

Peter Abernathy: By most mechanical and dirty hand (laughs) I shall have such revenges on you (turns and looks at Bernard) both. The things I will do. What they are, yet I know not, but they will be the terrors of the earth. (Abernathy quickly moves forward and grabs Ford by his arms.) You don't know where you are, do you? You're in a prison of your own sins. (laughs)

[Security and Cullen quickly enter the room. The security men grab Abernathy.]

Theresa Cullen: Turn it off. (Abernathy powers down.)

Theresa Cullen (to Bernard): What the hell was that?

Bernard Lowe: I don't know. He's off script. We didn't program any of those behaviors.

Dr. Robert Ford: Shakespeare. We've used this host in a number of different roles, have we not?

Bernard Lowe: Since I've been here, he's been Abernathy for 10 years. He was sheriff for a while before then. And before that --

Dr. Robert Ford: The professor!

Bernard Lowe: Yes, from a horror narrative called "The Dinner Party." He was leader of a group of cultists out in the desert who turned cannibal.

Dr. Robert Ford: He liked to quote Shakespeare, John Donne, Gertrude Stein. I admit the last one is a bit of an anachronism, but I couldn't resist.

Bernard Lowe: These are fragments of prior builds. The reveries must be allowing him to access them.

Dr. Robert Ford: No cause for alarm, Bernard. Simply our old work coming back to haunt us.

**
That last line is perhaps one of the best ways to obfuscate the truth- perhaps that he is haunted by what happened to his partner Arnold and is adamant about not going down that same path.

Edited by phoenyx
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Those transcripts are enough to convince me of some form of "Bernard is a copy of Arnold," anyway.

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After hearing Ford's greyhound story, I'm wondering if the secret agenda of the park is to turn the guests into psychopaths.

The greyhound was trained to chase a fake rabbit that couldn't really be killed, but then off its leash it killed a cat.

The guests are being desensitized into killing and raping indestructible hosts - what happens when they're let out of the kennel that is the park?

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On 11/2/2016 at 7:19 PM, ACW said:

Those transcripts are enough to convince me of some form of "Bernard is a copy of Arnold," anyway.

Did you hear the bit about if you clip Bernard Lowe's name to 'nard Lo" and switch the letters around you get Arnold :-)? 

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On 11/3/2016 at 1:44 AM, jbrecken said:

After hearing Ford's greyhound story, I'm wondering if the secret agenda of the park is to turn the guests into psychopaths.

I don't think that's the case at all. I'm reminded of what Ford said in a dialogue with Theresa in Episode 4's "Dissonance":

**

Theresa: I've forgotten how beautiful it is. I came here once as a child with my parents. I think we even sat at this table. (looks around) Or maybe ... maybe that one. When I started working here, I realized this place wasn't something I would enjoy.

Ford: Ah. (nods) In the beginning, I imagined things would be ... perfectly balanced. Even had a bet with my partner, Arnold, to that effect. We made a hundred hopeful story-lines. Of course, almost ... no one took us up on them. I lost the bet. Arnold always held a somewhat dim view of people. He begged me to not let you people in -- the money-men -- Delos. 

**

Source: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3723009&postcount=5

To me, Ford seems to be a man who's life, ironically, is a lot like the way he describes his former partner, Arnold, "filled with tragedy". When he says that he "lost that bet", I can't help but thinking that more was at stake then a simple friendly wager. I think they were possibly betting the farm on it, and when they lost that best, they may well have needed Delos' financing just to stay afloat. Bad choices are frequently made due to immense pressures- when you are between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I think that, in order to keep the park afloat, Ford basically made a deal with the devil (or in this case, Delos) and allowed the guests to do whatever they liked with the hosts in exchange for financing. 

As to what Ford's up to now, I think that was also heavily hinted at in his conversation with Theresa, continuing from where I left off above:

**

Ford: But I told him we'd be fine -- that you didn't understand what you were paying for. It's not a business venture, not a theme park, but an entire world.

(The wine glass overflows while Manu looks frozen in place. Dolores looks around inside the restaurant and out into the field. No one is moving -- all are frozen in place.)

Ford: We designed every inch of it -- every blade of grass. In here, we were gods. And you ... were merely our guests.

[Theresa is disturbed and nervous. She takes out a cigarette and lights it.]

Theresa: And how did that work out for Arnold?

Ford: Sadly, he lost his perspective. He went mad. I haven't -- as you well know. I have always ... seen things ... very clearly.

Theresa: This is the table I sat at with my parents. This is the chair I sat in.

Ford: (smiles) We know everything about our guests, don't we? As we know everything about our employees. I do hope you will be careful with Bernard. He has a sensitive disposition.

(Ford glances up at Manu and then at the wine glass. Manu resumes motion. Manu realizes the wine has overflowed onto the table.)

Manu (to Theresa): I beg your pardon, señorita. (Cullen nervously touches her neck and looks at the other restaurant workers as they begin to move again.)

Ford: There have been many of you over the years, and we have always -- almost always -- found a way to make it work. So, I will ask you ... nicely ... please ... don't get in my way. (Cullen's hand holding the cigarette shakes ever so slightly from her nervousness. After a pause, Cullen gets up to leave.)

**

Source: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3723009&postcount=5

I think Ford said a lot here. He seems to essentially be saying that Delos may have the fine print all worked out, but they don't understand that the contract they have with Ford is built on shaky ground. As Ford says, Westworld isn't really an amusement park- it's a self contained world, one in which he has a -lot- of control, as he made pains to demonstrate to Theresa. I think it can easily be said that Ford's words were "fighting words": he's taking a stand and I think it's fair to say that when people take stands, a key part of the person is revealed. If Ford has a secret agenda, I think it's to go back to the "glorious" years of "pure creation" that he had at the start of the park, one in which Delos had no part.

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6 hours ago, phoenyx said:

Did you hear the bit about if you clip Bernard Lowe's name to 'nard Lo" and switch the letters around you get Arnold :-)? 

"Bernard Lowe" is an anagram of "Arnold Weber" - do we know what Arnold's last name was?

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6 hours ago, okerry said:

"Bernard Lowe" is an anagram of "Arnold Weber" - do we know what Arnold's last name was?

Yeah, it is, but no, I haven't seen any information for his last name (I did look). Still, even if his last name is something else, it still seems pretty coincidental :-p. 

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Bernard Lowe is also an anagram for Bareen World. In Persian legend, the Garden of Bareen was a paradise, in a fortress belonging to Hassan-i-Sabah, imitating heaven, with all the luxuries of life, including a river of wine,  and used to recruit assassins. Recruits were drugged to simulate dying, then revived in Bareen and served a sumptuous feast by virgins. The recruit was convinced that he was in heaven and Sabah was a minion of divinity, all of whose orders must be obeyed.

Just throwing that out there.

Edited by Gobi · Reason: Content
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4 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Bernard Lowe is also an anagram for Bareen World. In Persian legend, the Garden of Bareen was a paradise, imitating heaven, with all the luxuries of life, including a river of wine. 

That is so cool :-)

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1 minute ago, phoenyx said:

That is so cool :-)

 

1 minute ago, phoenyx said:

That is so cool :-)

Added more, b/c I hit the enter button too soon.

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10 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Bernard Lowe is also an anagram for Bareen World. In Persian legend, the Garden of Bareen was a paradise, in a fortress belonging to Hassan-i-Sabah, imitating heaven, with all the luxuries of life, including a river of wine,  and used to recruit assassins. Recruits were drugged to simulate dying, then revived in Bareen and served a sumptuous feast by virgins. The recruit was convinced that he was in heaven and Sabah was a minion of divinity, all of whose orders must be obeyed.

Just throwing that out there.

Ahh, I've heard of Hassan before. He is mentioned as part of the entry on assassins in wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins#Origins

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53 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Bernard Lowe is also an anagram for Bareen World. In Persian legend, the Garden of Bareen was a paradise, in a fortress belonging to Hassan-i-Sabah, imitating heaven, with all the luxuries of life, including a river of wine,  and used to recruit assassins. Recruits were drugged to simulate dying, then revived in Bareen and served a sumptuous feast by virgins. The recruit was convinced that he was in heaven and Sabah was a minion of divinity, all of whose orders must be obeyed.

Just throwing that out there.

I've actually heard that tale before. I sometimes wonder if present-day terrorists aren't doing something similar as recruitment/brainwashing. Also quite interesting as to how it might relate to Westworld.

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There doesn't seem to be a general "no spoilers" speculation thread yet, but just tossing this out there.  If it turns out Williams is from the past, could there be a robot version of him for future seasons?  I'm assuming the non-linear storytelling won't go beyond the first season if it is even happening.  although I'm feeling more and more it is true.  And Dolores and young William have pretty good chemistry.  I could see her wanting a robot version of him.  That is assuming the robots take over (fingers crossed).

That way they can keep the actor who plays William.  Because I'm wondering if Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins will do more than one season.  This is a pretty stellar cast for a mere television show.  James Marsden and Thandie Newton might just want to make some easy cash for their children's college tuition so I see them sticking around.   Thandie has an interesting role and kudos for her being comfortable with the nudity.  She's gorgeous of course but also "of a certain age".  Nice to see an older body on television.

Edited by jeansheridan
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20 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

There doesn't seem to be a general "no spoilers" speculation thread yet,

There actually is one- it's called "Conspiracy Theories: What's at the heart of Westworld". Though I guess that may sound a bit grandiose, I made the thread (if not the title, but I prefer it to my original title, especially the "Heart of Westworld" bit), and welcome speculations great and small in it ;-). 

Edited by phoenyx
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1 hour ago, phoenyx said:

There actually is one- it's called "Conspiracy Theories: What's at the heart of Westworld". Though I guess that may sound a bit grandiose, I made the thread (if not the title, but I prefer it to my original title, especially the "Heart of Westworld" bit), and welcome speculations great and small in it ;-). 

Your thread has a spoilers warning on it.  I hate spoilers so I prefer random speculation based on what is just shown on the show.  For example we don't REALLY know the year of the current era on the show although I've heard people quote the producer.  

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7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Your thread has a spoilers warning on it.

Doh, I didn't read what you wrote properly, I thought you wanted a thread that allowed for spoilers :-p. 

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Maybe we could expand this thread to deal with other thing beside Management's plans for the park? ;)

On 4/11/2016 at 5:36 PM, okerry said:

"Bernard Lowe" is an anagram of "Arnold Weber" - do we know what Arnold's last name was?

Uhh, that's almost too much of a coincidence. But I'm slighly nervous about where this would lead: Between the two storylines-theory and Bernard as Arnold (not to think of all the other, more far-fetched ones like "they're all robots!") we might end up with a situation where the show runners gets so caught up in gotchas! and storyline twists, we'll lose the character beats and the intricate musings on what constitutes a human being which is the reason I fell in love with this show in first place. You know, shades of Battlestar Galactica.

 

On 6/11/2016 at 6:03 PM, jeansheridan said:

If it turns out Williams is from the past, could there be a robot version of him for future seasons?  I'm assuming the non-linear storytelling won't go beyond the first season if it is even happening.  although I'm feeling more and more it is true.  And Dolores and young William have pretty good chemistry.  I could see her wanting a robot version of him.  That is assuming the robots take over (fingers crossed).

That way they can keep the actor who plays William.  Because I'm wondering if Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins will do more than one season.  This is a pretty stellar cast for a mere television show.

I will sorely miss Jimmi Simpson and William in the show if he (sighs) turn out to be the MIB. I am afraid it looks more and more likely, though. Your idea of a robot!William/MIB could work; perhaps the MIB will be able to move his consciousness to a host body when he finds the center of the maze? Especially if it turns out Arnold's already done that? We'll lose the interesting human-robot connection, but if William=MIB and he has spend 30 years looking for the Maze to release Dolores*, as was speculated in the thread for ep 6, it'll still be something.

* The main reason I'm so against William=MIB is that from ep 1 onwards we've been given no indication the MIB has spend any time wondering about the purpose of the park until very recently. So if the theory's true, William reached the end of his 'adventure' with Dolores, married into the company, took over the company and spent the next 30 years killing, torturing, probably raping his way through Westworld - including the girl he by all accounts so far in the storyline has begun to feel something for - and just now decided to look for hidden meanings. It makes no sense. So far. If true, I hope there's more going on in the MIB's storyline :)

Edited by feverfew
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Next season would the mods allow concurrent episode threads for the unsullied like we have for GoT and Outlander, where discussion of spoilers and information from other sources outside of PTV is not permitted?  (Assuming other posters would be interested?)  I binged the show recently then would read some of the episode threads and was disappointed to learn things I didn't really want to know. It appeared that other posters wished to remain unspoiled too.

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1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Next season would the mods allow concurrent episode threads for the unsullied like we have for GoT and Outlander, where discussion of spoilers and information from other sources outside of PTV is not permitted?  (Assuming other posters would be interested?)  I binged the show recently then would read some of the episode threads and was disappointed to learn things I didn't really want to know. It appeared that other posters wished to remain unspoiled too.

That isn't something we'd do for Westworld. Would you please PM me and specify what you mean by things I didn't want to know? If it's info from further in the season within an earlier episode please report that, as that violates site spoiler policy. 

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Ok.  Doesn't hurt to ask, right?  For me the problem was more that after the first page people would start cobbling together things they'd read on other sites so that the major surprises were spoiled.  I don't know for sure if posters were dropping actual spoilers or were just spot on in their speculation.  Guess it's the risk one takes by reading the forums.  No problem.  Like I said, just thought I'd ask.

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The mods read along as episodes aired and there were no spoilers in episode topics - it was all speculation; the WW posters were just really good at it. To the extent many said they won't read until after the season ends next time, while others loved guessing right. It's the nature of the beast ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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