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Kromm

Captain Marvel (2019)

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9 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I think that shows how good of a job the Kree did on Carol, they not only wiped her memories they also made her barely care about why she has no memories. Then for 6 years she was raised in the Kree society where they are taught to not show too many emotions. Talos even said they really did a number on her. I don't even think she got all her memories back by the end of the movie. She just knows she's from Earth and was a pilot with Maria and was an aunt to Monica. I do hope in End Game we learn that Carol did visit Earth from time to time and learned more about herself in the last 25 years. 

I agree that plot wise the Kree really did a number on her, but I think that makes for a less interesting movie with a protagonist who is just sort of being dragged along by the plot for half the film than if Carol Dan/Vers has more drive to uncover the central mystery of the film herself.

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11 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

I don't like Cinemascore because *everything* gets a high rating.  Jurassic Park Lost World got a B+.  Indiana Jones & the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull got a B.  Thor: The Dark World got an A-.  Iron Man 3 got an A.  It suffers from too much grade inflation.  Or, to quote The Lego Movie (which got an A) "Everything is awesome!"

Exactly. As I said I've heard-a high score at Cinemascore just means the movie met the expectations of the people who saw it. It's a bit more accurate than say Rotten Tomatoes, because Cinemascore is from only people who saw the movie (or were at least in the theater and bought a ticket to see it-whether they paid attention to the movie or not. So, it's not a bunch of robo voting up or down by fans or those pre disposed to hate it. But it's not "proof" of quality anymore than anything else. 

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Why does this movie need to prove its "quality"?

Personally, I only look at any sort of review aggregates or audience scores to see how many people enjoyed a film. It doesn't affect my plans to see it unless the reception is either great or awful, and even then it really only affects whether I'll see it in the theater or wait til I can watch for free (think Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse vs. Project Almanac). I'll decide on the quality myself after I see it.

CinemaScores run high, but a movie getting an A instead of an A- or a B+ still tells me something, especially in combination with other things like the Tomatometer. Like I said when I first brought up the CinemaScore: "I agree that the amount of money pulled in isn't the best indication of whether or not people liked a film. The CinemaScore, which can't be gamed by anyone online, works better." Let's not move the goalposts here. This is a fun superhero movie that is entertaining most people who watch it. It's not, nor was it intended to be, high art.

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23 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

Why does this movie need to prove its "quality"?

Personally, I only look at any sort of review aggregates or audience scores to see how many people enjoyed a film. It doesn't affect my plans to see it unless the reception is either great or awful, and even then it really only affects whether I'll see it in the theater or wait til I can watch for free (think Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse vs. Project Almanac). I'll decide on the quality myself after I see it.

CinemaScores run high, but a movie getting an A instead of an A- or a B+ still tells me something, especially in combination with other things like the Tomatometer. Like I said when I first brought up the CinemaScore: "I agree that the amount of money pulled in isn't the best indication of whether or not people liked a film. The CinemaScore, which can't be gamed by anyone online, works better." Let's not move the goalposts here. This is a fun superhero movie that is entertaining most people who watch it. It's not, nor was it intended to be, high art.

All movies need to prove their quality.

The debate is over how they do that.

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All movies need to prove their quality.

MCU movies have never been expected to prove their quality. They're expected to be fun and enjoyable to watch. Personally, the only one of the ones I've seen that I would label "quality" is Winter Soldier (I haven't seen Infinity Wars). For the other ones that I really like (Iron Man, Black Panther, Ragnarok), I would call them quality popcorn flicks but not high quality movies. 

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20 minutes ago, Kromm said:

All movies need to prove their quality.

The debate is over how they do that.

But why? And who does it need to prove it to? What does “quality” even mean when it comes to movies? 

44 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

Let's not move the goalposts here. This is a fun superhero movie that is entertaining most people who watch it. It's not, nor was it intended to be, high art.

Exactly. 

Edited by Dani
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8 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I agree that plot wise the Kree really did a number on her, but I think that makes for a less interesting movie with a protagonist who is just sort of being dragged along by the plot for half the film than if Carol Dan/Vers has more drive to uncover the central mystery of the film herself.

Yeah, I was struggling to feel any sort of emotional investment in her. I did like her chemistry with Nick Fury as well as the 1995 setting, but it's hard. And I know Brie Larson is very capable of charm and charisma and warmth in a character, and I feel like they didn't want her to have any of that to make the point about how mind-warped she is, but there was a way to make someone a badass and still have her be compelling, and Wonder Woman just did that a lot better.

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2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It's a good thing that they found the second half of the dog tag, otherwise her name would've been Dan. 

Then she could sub for Gary Sinise when the LT. Dan Band plays a USO show 

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7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It's a good thing that they found the second half of the dog tag, otherwise her name would've been Dan. 

Caro-l'Dan

The best part is that that the Kree went through the trouble of brain washing her and pumping her full of Kree blood, but didn't bother to come up with a Kree name for her.

"What should we call her?"

"Just use the name on that broken tag."

"Sir? Why not give her a Kree name to complete the deception?"

"Listen, I just donated 4 pints of blue blood, I'm a little woozy here, the Earth name is fine.'

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This was really good. I was a bit concerned, after the trailers left me somewhat indifferent, but I really enjoyed this movie.

I can see why some people said that Brie Larson is a bit flat, but it made sense to me that Carol would be, given her entire remembered life is about training to be a soldier. She had no memories of being that crazy girl who never took no for an answer, but you could see her sparking back to life, as she began to remember.

She has a really strong presence, even if she never quite moves like the athlete that Carol is supposed to be. And she managed to bring pathos as well as a sense of sheer exuberance, in turns. And I found her lack of guile to be very amusing. She's not trying to hide who she is, when challenged by humans, she's completely upfront and straightforward - "that was a photon blast. Skrulls can't do that."

I really liked the back-to-front way that they told her origin story, and it showed a confidence in the material that is new to the genre - We don't need to spend forty minutes showing you this character and getting you to care, then showing you the tragic event that gives them superpowers. They trusted that the audience would pick up who the Kree are and who the Skrulls are, and that Earth is a backwater without note.

It was obvious that Jude Law was going to be a villain, but I didn't see Ben Mendehlson actually turning out to be a good guy. That was a nice bait and switch, and in hindsight you could see that he was never particularly villainous. The Skrulls and Kree are both usually varying degrees of villainous in the comics, with some exceptions like Mar-Vell and Xavin.

I spent every minute Minerva was on screen trying to figure out who played her, and being struck by how strong a presence she had. Of course, it was Gemma Chan, an actress I found captivating in Humans. It's a shame she died, because that character could easily have become a nemesis for Carol. And it was nice to see Djimon Hounsou again, and Lee Pace, as less directly evil versions of the characters they become.

I loved the Nineties references, and the various digs at how far we've come in terms of technology. Waiting for a CD to load on a computer, being disconnected from the dial-up internet, having to use a payphone and a pager. The music fit perfectly, and the Nineties really was the age of iconic, angsty, power-girl rock.

Stan Lee's cameo was fantastic. Reading the Mallrats script! Can't get much more Nineties than that.

And Monica Rambeau as an easter egg of sorts. I'm guessing that she'll appear as an adult in Captain Marvel 2.

The de-aging on Samuel L. Jackson was stunning, and he looked exactly like his mid-nineties self. It was cool to see Nick Fury as a younger, less sure and less in-control character.  He was almost starstruck by Carol, by the end, and that's a dynamic I'd love to see in Endgame.

I was fairly starstruck myself, once Carol got rid of that inhibitor and started using her full powers. That scene of her destroying the missiles and then carving up the Kree fighters was spectacular, and as close to Superman as the Marvel Universe gets (which is fitting, because the original Captain Marvel was really Marvel's version of Superman).

A couple of minor complaints - the action scenes weren't directed with quite the clarity I'd like. Dim lighting and odd cuts made it difficult to figure out just who was punching who, at any given moment. And Annette Bening was a slightly odd choice, in a role that wasn't meaty enough to justify her presence.

But all in all, this felt fresh and different, even while being yet another superhero movie, and I'm eager to see how Marvel move forward with Carol Danvers as a flagship property.

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