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Damn! Everything came out tonight! I was literally on the edge of my seat after that last commercial break!

 

Honestly, I’m mad at James and Lady Mae. Grace told them what Mac did to Faith 20 years ago and they didn’t believe it. Grace comes back 20 years later with stories of other girls telling what Mac did and NOW they believe her? They wouldn’t believe their own daughter but they believe other girls who have come forward? WTH?? Did Faith deny what Grace said what Mac did and that’s why James and Lady Mae didn’t believe her? The more things to come out the more questions I have. I understand James and Lady Mae would have difficulty believing it but this is their daughter. Did they even consider she was telling the truth or were they so blind in their trust of Mac to not believe it? That's just hard for me to wrap my head around. I wonder if the venom Lady Mae has for Grace started because of what she said about Mac 20 years ago.

 

The Greenleaf family is something else. James's dislike of Lady Mae's love for Jacob is funny to me. James said Jacob is Lady Mae's prince and he doesn't understand why and yet he can't see Grace is his princess and Lady Mae doesn't understand why. Also James told Grace to tell Jacob about Mac but not Charity? They just forgot about her? This is a family issue and just as Jacob and Kerissa talked to Zora, they should talk to Charity just to be sure nothing happened with her. Charity should be told before someone outside the family tells her. If they don't, they're gonna hear Charity whine how the family still treats her like a baby.

 

Speaking of Charity, she is so slow on the uptake. She’s seen Kevin on the phone a lot, almost every time they’re talking and now she’s curious? Bless her heart. She thinks it's another woman. Choir Director gonna find out before she. 

 

I would say ‘Go Isabel!’ but looking at the preview for next week, she’s back. I commend her on the slap but I would’ve kept walking. Are the glass doors of Noah's office soundproof? The lady across from Noah's office didn't hear all that?

 

Grace and Noah. Noah's a jerk. He's reaching and touching Grace earlier in the episode but after Isabel found out and toss her ring at him, now he wants to be upset? He should be upset with himself for cheating and having the worst poker face in the world!

 

"Do I have brain cancer?" LOL! Oh, Zora. That girl.

Damn, Corrine. Do you ever get off that phone? 

 

Can't wait for next week!!! Was that Sophia's father I saw in the preview for next week? 

Edited by Arcadiasw
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It's weird that Grace and Jacob had no one on one scenes until she needs to tell him about their pervy Uncle.

It's even weirder that neither one of them, nor their parents, felt the need to ask and/or alert Charity about Mac.

The weirdest thing though, for me, is the show never acknowledging Grace potentially putting Sophia in harm's way because of her need to bring Mac down.

Edited by Dee
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On 7/28/2016 at 11:20 PM, jhlipton said:

They made lose my liking for Grace.  What. The. F**king. Hell???  Maybe Noah would have been yours if you hadn't left.  MAYBE!!!! But you did leave, and that put a quit-claim on him.  Now he belongs with someone else and you have sunk to Jacob's level.  Worse because Kaneesha knew and approved to a certain level.  You're one grade above Mac, scum.

Noah isn't any better but he doesn't see himself as better than all the rest.

Shame, Gigi.  SHAME!!!!

Wait, so if a woman sleeps with a man she's one grade better than a CHILD RAPIST?  Oh, okay.

 

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No marriage vows broken but it's still not right to sleep with someone who's engaged to be married. I think everyone knew there were unresolved issues between Grace and Noah. Sophia saw it immediately. No wonder Isabel was so worried. I kind of wonder if Noah was settling for Isabel since he thought Grace was out of reach being away for 20 years.

This is a very interesting area for me.  I was raised that "cheating" meant someone who was MARRIED stepping out on their spouse.  That marriage was sacred.  I don't know when it changed, when you could even "cheat" on someone you were dating. 

What happened between Noah and Grace and Isabel was that no one wants to "upset the apple cart."  Noah knew he had feelings for Grace.  The correct thing would be to tell that to Isabel, tell her he's still not sure; tell her what's going on.  But what people like to do is stay silent.  No one ever wants to deal with difficult emotions.

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The Greenleaf family is something else. James's dislike of Lady Mae's love for Jacob is funny to me. James said Jacob is Lady Mae's prince and he doesn't understand why and yet he can't see Grace is his princess and Lady Mae doesn't understand why. Also James told Grace to tell Jacob about Mac but not Charity? They just forgot about her? This is a family issue and just as Jacob and Kerissa talked to Zora, they should talk to Charity just to be sure nothing happened with her. Charity should be told before someone outside the family tells her. If they don't, they're gonna hear Charity whine how the family still treats her like a baby.

I have heard that this happens in some families.  One parent favors one child, while the other parent favors another child.  Grace is James' favorite, Jacob is Lay Mae's.  I think that both Faith and Charity kind of got lost in the shuffle. 

I thought that the conversation Lady Mae had with Isabel was interesting.  She told Isabel that men always wonder "is she really the one?"  I have suspected that James might have liked Lady Mae's sister, the character Oprah is playing.  But she wasn't "suitable" for what James wanted to do with his life, so he married Lady Mae and she knew that she was a consolation prize for James, the way Isabel is basically a consolation prize for Noah. 

If I were Isabel, I'd leave all of them in the dust because even if she and Noah get back together, she'll always know that she was a consolation prize to him.

Edited by Neurochick
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Yikes, it's gonna be like the OK Corral up in that church with half the congregation showing up strapped.

Another woman? Girl, you know better--and so does the new choir director. Meanwhile, wonder if Kevin is actually cheating on Charity or if he's just addicted to Grindr?

Ugh, Noah is such a pig. I'm glad Isabel got a spine. Hope poor Lady Mae will be able to get some of her deposits back for the caterers and stuff, heh.

Re the previews, looks like Gigi's baby daddy is about to arrive. Hmmm. Your move, Noah.

This show is so good. Wonder if O now looks at THATHN and ILYIW and shakes her head at how awful they are compared to this?

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23 hours ago, represent said:

It's on all three parties involved. Women have intuition and like to lie to themselves, the fiance' knows something is wrong. She's asking Mae if Noah seems happy? What? Days/weeks away from her wedding, please. And why is she not asking her fiance' if he's happy? Shes's not marrying Mae.

Gigi and Noah are both equally to blame, I personally do not subscribe to the it's this party's fault because they are the one in the committed relationship/marriage. That's just folks way of trying to avoid accountability, nope, doesn't work with me.  Adultery takes two, cheating takes two, they both have been looking longingly at one another since Gigi strolled up through that driveway on foot in the first episode. Those two knew what was up. Then Gigi says she should go, but Noah's lust/love, love for Gigi that is, and lack of respect somehow paralyzed his feet, that he couldn't walk to the door the minute she said she should go, open it, and close it right behind her. Same for Gigi, don't say you should go, just go. Oh wait, how about not show up at all because you know damn well you have a history, that the feelings are still there but he's engaged. Go find a stuff animal to lean on not some other woman's fiance'. Go home and hug your kid, cause no way can she talk to her bitchy mother unfortunately. Or how about go to the bar and lean on your auntie "Oprah" LOL, I keep forgetting her character's name, probably because I don't see her often enough.   Bye to all three of these parties, I just don't have patience for this game it's so old, and tired. Grown ass folks making commitments and can't put sentences together to have tough but much needed truthful discussions before all shit hits the fan.

Gigi and Noah should have put that shit on the table in words, a conversation stop beating around the bush. Noah and his fiance' should have long had a discussion and broken off the engagement, then let shit play out and feelings get sorted out to see where it takes them. But this nonsense, please. They all knew something was off, all three of them.

Chile...

I couldn't have said it any better!  Take it from someone who was cheated on when she was engaged 100 years ago.  It was devastating and I wanted to cut a bitch--both of them!  Like you, I can't get caught up in that game of semantics.  Yes, the fiance was the one who made the commitment, but the other woman (i.e., Grace) is as much a cheater as Noah is.  I take the attitude, own your skankery.  If you're grown enough to lay, then you're grown enough to pay and accept the consequences that come with it.  The moment my girl, Gigi, strolled through that door and asked if Isabel was there, all bets were off.  If she was simply there to discuss Uncle Mac's fuckery [no pun intended], it shouldn't have mattered if Isabel was there or not especially since she was bound to find out about Uncle Mac anyway.

And, Isabel's insecurities practically leaped through the TV screen.  She gave off every signal that she was insecure about Grace and Noah and yet went full steam ahead with the wedding plans anyway.  Being willing to go forward with the marriage if Noah were just honest?  Isabel, please take a stadium full of seats with that nonsense.  Don't even get me started on agreeing to accept the "gift" of a wedding cake from Uncle Mac without her fiance knowing about it.  What was that all about anyway?

Oh, and Auntie Oprah's name is Mavis!  LOL!

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19 hours ago, Dee said:

It's weird that Grace and Jacob had no one on one scenes until she needs to tell him about their pervy Uncle.

It's even weirder that neither one of them, nor their parents, felt the need to ask and/or alert Charity about Mac.

The weirdest thing though, for me, is the show never acknowledging Grace potentially putting Sophia in harm's way because of her need to bring Mac down.

 

I guess we have never seen them interact because it wasn’t vital to the story. I assumed they did talk off screen to catch up but this family doesn’t appear close and they probably only see each other when it’s dinner time.

 

That was the biggest irony of it all. I like Grace but I have questioned her parenting. Grace should’ve told Sophia what she knew about Mac when she decided they would stay. That way Sophia would make sure she’s never alone with Mac and if she was, would always be on her guard. Grace doesn’t seem to think about others when she’s focused on her own agenda bad or good. Talking to Noah at his home knowing Isabel wasn’t there. Sleeping with Noah. Ignoring a call from Sophia’s father. Not sure if she ever returned his call.  I don’t think Grace told Sophia’s father the truth of why she stayed because I can’t imagine him condoning Sophia being around a pedophile and rapist.

 

Charity is slowly becoming Judy Winslow. Forgotten child.

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10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yikes, it's gonna be like the OK Corral up in that church with half the congregation showing up strapped.

Another woman? Girl, you know better--and so does the new choir director. Meanwhile, wonder if Kevin is actually cheating on Charity or if he's just addicted to Grindr?

Ugh, Noah is such a pig. I'm glad Isabel got a spine. Hope poor Lady Mae will be able to get some of her deposits back for the caterers and stuff, heh.

Re the previews, looks like Gigi's baby daddy is about to arrive. Hmmm. Your move, Noah.

This show is so good. Wonder if O now looks at THATHN and ILYIW and shakes her head at how awful they are compared to this?

I imagine James' weekly sermon will be like the scene from "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" on the Simpsons. The mayor is trying calm the citizens down over Mr. Burns proposal of blocking out the sun and a lot of Springfield citizens are stroking their gun.

I saw the first episode again and Kevin cheered up Charity after the family dinner by suggesting they get ice cream and watch The Bachelor. Do straight men watch The Bachelor?

Lady Mae better get all her money back just in case a lawsuit is filed against the church. When Mac's story becomes public, more victims can come out and they may take it out on the church, saying Lady Mae and James knew. You know Pastor Skanks is gonna be all over this.

I think Oprah already knows and that's why we have shows like Greenleaf and hopefully Queen Sugar will be just as good.

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4 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

 

And, Isabel's insecurities practically leaped through the TV screen.  She gave off every signal that she was insecure about Grace and Noah and yet went full steam ahead with the wedding plans anyway.  Being willing to go forward with the marriage if Noah were just honest?  Isabel, please take a stadium full of seats with that nonsense.  Don't even get me started on agreeing to accept the "gift" of a wedding cake from Uncle Mac without her fiance knowing about it.  What was that all about anyway?

Oh, and Auntie Oprah's name is Mavis!  LOL!

I think Isabel was lying about that because she quickly took off her ring when she knew the truth. I guess she wanted to hear Noah say it.

Hopefully, it's not another of his "Love Offerings"

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I just hope that Isabel doesn't take Noah back and they leave together.  I mean, how can Isabel trust Noah, and how can she have any self esteem, knowing she is basically his second choice?  She's be a damn fool to take that man back. 

I think Mac will commit suicide, but people will always wonder if James killed him. 

I also think it's interesting that this other minister, Rev. Skank?  Is very light skinned.  Reminds me of Adam Clayton Powell, when he was the minister of Abyssinian Baptist Church, decades ago, and Sweet Daddy Grace, who was from Cape Verde.

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1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I just hope that Isabel doesn't take Noah back and they leave together.  I mean, how can Isabel trust Noah, and how can she have any self esteem, knowing she is basically his second choice?  She's be a damn fool to take that man back. 

I think Mac will commit suicide, but people will always wonder if James killed him. 

I also think it's interesting that this other minister, Rev. Skank?  Is very light skinned.  Reminds me of Adam Clayton Powell, when he was the minister of Abyssinian Baptist Church, decades ago, and Sweet Daddy Grace, who was from Cape Verde.

I'm worried that Isabel is one of those women for whom a lying, cheating, rat dog bastard of a man is better than no man at all.  Unfortunately, too many women like this exist in real life.  It's the same vibe I get from Charity at times and I wonder what she will really do when the truth about her husband is revealed and she finally accepts what she probably suspected all along.

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I'm worried that Isabel is one of those women for whom a lying, cheating, rat dog bastard of a man is better than no man at all.  

Yes, she is from what I heard, but I too am hoping I'm wrong. I focus on the little details, like her screaming to him that she knew they should have left as soon as Grace returned.  That's what she said in confronting Noah and I was like, girl, that's NOT the point.  No matter where in the world you went, Grace would still be there, somewhere in his heart, in the back of his mind if not at the damn forefront and that wouldn't sit well with me. The point is, she's still in his heart. I'm no narcissist, I don't wish to be noticed nor acknowledged by all just close loved ones and oh by the way, my husband. I'm selfish when it comes to that and I "AIN'T" sharing.  These men get away with a ton of shit. Too many women put up with the sharing, hell no, because men sure don't return the favor. They don't forgive, their egos won't allow it and women need to stop reacting on emotion and neediness and adopt an ego. Like I said, get a damn teddy bear and some hobbies, self-respect and living in truth IMO is more important.  No way is being second best the truth Isabel wants to live otherwise she would not have confronted him and even more so we would have been seeing her hemming and hawing wondering if something was up in the first place. Let's see how desperate she is, I hope not because she looks like she's the full package and can do a hell of a lot better than being second best.  And Grace could have done a lot better than using her twat to make Noah have second thoughts, instead of her words. She's a pastor for crying out loud, she has a way with the word, she should have used it, it would have been more honest and respectful first and foremost of herself.  You could tell when she held his hand and then left the room that she taken aback that he didn't sound like he was having second thoughts about the wedding after the sex. Why would he? You just had sex, you never had a talk about why you two fools keep having these awkward, silent pauses when you're speaking to one another, or staring longingly at one another and pretending that it's just about what you've uncovered on Mac and Faith.  

Anyway, now that I'm done ranting this show is a hot mess and so entertaining. Talking about bringing houses down.

Edited by represent
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5 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

I'm worried that Isabel is one of those women for whom a lying, cheating, rat dog bastard of a man is better than no man at all.  Unfortunately, too many women like this exist in real life.  It's the same vibe I get from Charity at times and I wonder what she will really do when the truth about her husband is revealed and she finally accepts what she probably suspected all along.

I hope she doesn’t take him back but after she left his office, she didn’t keep walking and there's that preview next week. She might make some demands on him. 

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11 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

I'm worried that Isabel is one of those women for whom a lying, cheating, rat dog bastard of a man is better than no man at all.  Unfortunately, too many women like this exist in real life.  It's the same vibe I get from Charity at times and I wonder what she will really do when the truth about her husband is revealed and she finally accepts what she probably suspected all along.

Isabel will likely be like this because of the drama, and as a way for the show to excuse Noah and Grace's behavior.  Charity I fear might be like this because her parents treat her like she is insignificant, which is far worse than bring invisible; they see her, they just act as if she has no value and nothing to contribute.  It makes sense in a way, Grace is the father's favorite, Jacob is the mother's favorite, Faith was the troubled one and Charity was just there.

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I think it's interesting.  I was more invested in Mac being a pedophile than Noah and Grace.  I get Noah and Grace 100%.  They had a relationship that never reached a proper conclusion.  Grace left because she'd told her family about Mac and Faith, Faith changed her story and Grace was on the outs, she felt she had to leave, don't know why Noah didn't leave too, but there is that.  Anyway, there really was nothing Isabel could have done, she was in a bad situation.   Noah and Grace's relationship never really ended, and that's what made it worse.  

I have a feeling Isabel will go back to Noah, and tell him she'll go along with the wedding as long as they leave afterwards and he never gets in touch with Grace (which is stupid IMO).  Maybe she feels that a cheating man is better than no man at all.

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On 8/3/2016 at 9:16 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Honestly, I’m mad at James and Lady Mae. Grace told them what Mac did to Faith 20 years ago and they didn’t believe it. Grace comes back 20 years later with stories of other girls telling what Mac did and NOW they believe her? They wouldn’t believe their own daughter but they believe other girls who have come forward?

It was the number of girls coming forward, along with the "scholarships" (that Lady Mae paid for, not Mac) that made them believe.  Yes, they should have listened to Faith, if not believed her. Mac is a smooth operator (did we find out what happened with Michaela, from 2 episodes ago?)l it would be difficult for the Greenleafs to see him as a predator, but their daughter should have come first.

One bit that seems a bit jarring is how casually everyone is taking the abortion.  Tou'd think at least one person would be hurling "baby-killer" on  a frequent basis.

On 8/4/2016 at 4:44 AM, Neurochick said:

Wait, so if a woman sleeps with a man she's one grade better than a CHILD RAPIST?  Oh, okay.

 

This is a very interesting area for me.  I was raised that "cheating" meant someone who was MARRIED stepping out on their spouse.  That marriage was sacred.  I don't know when it changed, when you could even "cheat" on someone you were dating.

Maybe a bit of hypobole (if you will) on my part. Grace is definitely many grades better than Mac.

I would say that cheating can occur in any committed relationship.  It is worse if there are vows involved, but it's still cheating.

And Noah had taken a vow -- one of chastity.  Just because he had vowed not to have sex with Isobel before marriage doesn't mean that everyone else is fair game.

On 8/4/2016 at 1:43 PM, MulletorHater said:

Being willing to go forward with the marriage if Noah were just honest?  Isabel, please take a stadium full of seats with that nonsense. 

I wonder if, before she asked him, if Isabel believed that if Noah told her the truth, she'd be OK.  I think the fact that until she asked him, Noah had shown no regret or remorse tipped the scales.

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1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

It was the number of girls coming forward, along with the "scholarships" (that Lady Mae paid for, not Mac) that made them believe.  Yes, they should have listened to Faith, if not believed her. Mac is a smooth operator (did we find out what happened with Michaela, from 2 episodes ago?)l it would be difficult for the Greenleafs to see him as a predator, but their daughter should have come first.

One bit that seems a bit jarring is how casually everyone is taking the abortion.  Tou'd think at least one person would be hurling "baby-killer" on  a frequent basis.

Maybe a bit of hypobole (if you will) on my part. Grace is definitely many grades better than Mac.

I would say that cheating can occur in any committed relationship.  It is worse if there are vows involved, but it's still cheating.

And Noah had taken a vow -- one of chastity.  Just because he had vowed not to have sex with Isobel before marriage doesn't mean that everyone else is fair game.

I wonder if, before she asked him, if Isabel believed that if Noah told her the truth, she'd be OK.  I think the fact that until she asked him, Noah had shown no regret or remorse tipped the scales.

Hypocrisy of the Greenleaf clan seems to be the only constant on the show. I have no ideal where Calvary falls on the political religious spectrum from President Obama's home church Trinity United Church of Christ to Westboro Baptist. Just that there is another Black megachurch around Memphis to play the other side

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4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

It was the number of girls coming forward, along with the "scholarships" (that Lady Mae paid for, not Mac) that made them believe.  Yes, they should have listened to Faith, if not believed her. Mac is a smooth operator (did we find out what happened with Michaela, from 2 episodes ago?)l it would be difficult for the Greenleafs to see him as a predator, but their daughter should have come first.

One bit that seems a bit jarring is how casually everyone is taking the abortion.  Tou'd think at least one person would be hurling "baby-killer" on  a frequent basis.

Maybe a bit of hypobole (if you will) on my part. Grace is definitely many grades better than Mac.

I would say that cheating can occur in any committed relationship.  It is worse if there are vows involved, but it's still cheating.

And Noah had taken a vow -- one of chastity.  Just because he had vowed not to have sex with Isobel before marriage doesn't mean that everyone else is fair game.

I wonder if, before she asked him, if Isabel believed that if Noah told her the truth, she'd be OK.  I think the fact that until she asked him, Noah had shown no regret or remorse tipped the scales.

Michaela seems almost a willing participant. She went to Mac's place at night and waited for him. She commented on Mac's place almost envious. She wanted a drink. Not to excuse Mac but it doesn't seem one sided as it was with the girl Grace interviewed who thought they were only going fishing and Mac raped her and forced her to abort her baby. 

That's the real sad part about James and Lady Mae. It took other girls coming forward and and a money trail that affects them for them to believe their daughter. As others have said, this really happens. No one wants to believe a child even their own accusing a brother, uncle, cousin or even a female relative doing this. 

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4 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Michaela seems almost a willing participant. She went to Mac's place at night and waited for him. She commented on Mac's place almost envious. She wanted a drink. Not to excuse Mac but it doesn't seem one sided as it was with the girl Grace interviewed who thought they were only going fishing and Mac raped her and forced her to abort her baby.

She was willing to a point, but was she willing once Mac started to make a move?  How drunk (impaired) was she?  So much we don't know about that incident.  It raises the question, at least a bit, if the other girls were "willing participants" up to a point...

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Children cannot be willing participants. I'm sure that her trusting Mac and feeling like she had a "friend" she could talk to and be open with is how pedophiles groom victims. She trusted that a dirty ole man could actually care about and for her, without being sexual. Big mistake.

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22 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Michaela seems almost a willing participant. She went to Mac's place at night and waited for him. She commented on Mac's place almost envious. She wanted a drink. Not to excuse Mac but it doesn't seem one sided as it was with the girl Grace interviewed who thought they were only going fishing and Mac raped her and forced her to abort her baby. 

The thing about that is, Michaela is a teenager, a minor (I assume).  Teenagers made stupid decisions.  It's up to adults to correct them and put them on the right path.  If Mac truly cared about Michaela's well being, even if he took her to his apartment, he would have called her mother, told her where her daughter was and that he didn't want her waiting in a public lobby.  Then he would have given her a soft drink, sat her down in front of the TV and waited for her mother to pick her up.   No deep conversation, nothing. 

Mac was inappropriate with Michaela, especially when he talked about himself, because he's putting a teenager on the same level as an adult, him, and that's not right.  Talk about schoolwork, or college, or something like that, but the intimate nature of their conversation, is what made it wrong IMO.

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18 hours ago, announcergirl said:

Children cannot be willing participants. I'm sure that her trusting Mac and feeling like she had a "friend" she could talk to and be open with is how pedophiles groom victims. She trusted that a dirty ole man could actually care about and for her, without being sexual. Big mistake.

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The thing about that is, Michaela is a teenager, a minor (I assume).  Teenagers made stupid decisions.  It's up to adults to correct them and put them on the right path.  If Mac truly cared about Michaela's well being, even if he took her to his apartment, he would have called her mother, told her where her daughter was and that he didn't want her waiting in a public lobby.  Then he would have given her a soft drink, sat her down in front of the TV and waited for her mother to pick her up.   No deep conversation, nothing. 

Mac was inappropriate with Michaela, especially when he talked about himself, because he's putting a teenager on the same level as an adult, him, and that's not right.  Talk about schoolwork, or college, or something like that, but the intimate nature of their conversation, is what made it wrong IMO.

 


 

That's what I meant in my post above, that book, story about his mother, all his methodology of grooming his victims. That's why I side eyed  his "sad" story about his mother.  The  man was having a wet dream about the girl at the start of the show for crying out loud. I don't trust anything he says and don't really care to figure out what's true. He just needs to be gone. 

But thank you, because I couldn't get up the energy to explain this, "willing participant" of a teenager stuff. This is still not understood by the masses, which is why even our criminal justice systems still gives these perverted freaks parole.  Gives them an ankle monitor and tells them to stay inside, not open the door on Halloween. Tells them to stay within a certain number of miles away from a school, WTF? Children are everywhere! They're at fucking Walmart right about now buying up school supplies, you think the molestors/pedophiles don't know this? Does the system tell them to stay out of Walmart too?  Bottom line, they need to be locked up indefinitely, they cannot be rehabilitated.  This sentiment that a teenager is a willing participant  when it comes to this crime is equal a cancer to the actual act itself. It sorta condones and shames victims. I said in my post above, that if she sat in his damn lap, she still wouldn't be to blame, because  she is the minor and he is the adult. He is to take her ass right back downstairs to sit and wait with the guard, period. This is the type of responsibility that comes with being an adult.

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The more secrets that unravel, the more questions I have. What’s the deal with James and Mac? It has to be more than just the Parkinson’s for Mac to say he’ll take James down with him. It looks like an accidental shooting with James Parkinson’s acting up but I get the feeling Mac got some huge dirt on James.

What the hell was that smug look from Mac to Grace as he was being rolled away all about?

Was I the only one laughing at the fact everyone was taking their time with Mac? Grace casually walking and not running back to Mac with the first aid kit; Lady Mae stops to chastise Grace while she has the First Aid Kit and Lady Mae, James and Noah are standing over Mac’s body talking while he’s bleeding. I was rolling! LOL!

I don’t blame Sophia one bit for being mad at Grace. It was a selfish reason for Grace to keep Sophia in the dark. It’s all about her and the custody battle with Ray and not her daughter’s safety. I hope more comes out on the history of Grace and Sophia’s father. I'm not completely taking Ray's side since I don't know his story but I'm definitely giving Grace the side eye.

Bravo Charity! Lady Mae deserved that! I don’t blame Charity for being pissed at everyone. She didn’t deserve to be left out. They all had plenty of time to tell Charity about Mac. The wedding I get because that kind of just happened but not with Mac. If Jacob and Kerissa had time to talk to Zora, then they had time to let Charity know.

Liked the side piece joke Kerissa made. I was doubtful but it seems Jacob and Kerissa really are working to patch up their marriage. Loved Kerissa comment to Kevin about the family they married into. Word! I laughed how everyone wanted to spit up that cake they were eating. LOL!

Not surprised Isabel took Noah back. Sort of. Makes for more TV drama.  

It should be interesting in the Greenleaf household now that Grace isn’t Daddy’s favorite anymore and Lady Mae has control over James where Grace is concerned.

Fun episode. Can't wait for next week.

Edited by Arcadiasw
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51 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

I don’t blame Sophia one bit for being mad at Grace. It was a selfish reason for Grace to keep Sophia in the dark. It’s all about her and the custody battle with Ray and not her daughter’s safety. I hope more comes out on the history of Grace and Sophia’s father. I'm not completely taking Ray's side since I don't know his story but I'm definitely giving Grace the side eye.

Bravo Charity! Lady Mae deserved that! I don’t blame Charity for being pissed at everyone. She didn’t deserve to be left out. They all had plenty of time to tell Charity about Mac. The wedding I get because that kind of just happened but not with Mac. If Jacob and Kerissa had time to talk to Zora, then they had time to let Charity know.

 

 

I was glad that Charity called Lady Mae out. I like Lynn Whitfield, but I don't like how Lady Mae has been trying to blame just about everything on Grace. She really does seem to have a ton of contempt for Grace. She doesn't seem to want Grace to be happy at all and I think that her encouraging Noah to leave with Isabel a few episodes ago, was more about her trying to make sure Grace wasn't happy, than it was about her caring about Noah/Isabel. Lady Mae acts very sanctimonious and I'm glad that Charity called her out on her attitude and behavior tonight.  I think that Jacob/Grace should have informed Charity about Uncle Mac. I also wonder what the family is going to say about Kevin sleeping on the couch. Kevin is coming across as so fake to me right now.With the way he's been acting and his whole "let me show you my phone" line. At this point, I think that he mostly just cares about not getting caught. I don't think he even really cares that he has to sleep on the couch. He's too busy lusting after random men on the internet. 

I also wonder what type of relationship Grace had with Ray. It doesn't seem like they were married, but I wonder if they had a long term relationship. I wonder if they were ever in love with each other. They seem to have some contempt for each other, and I thought it was interesting how Ray said something about Grace wanting to take away his rights. I wonder why she wanted to do that. My first impression is that he didn't seem like a terrible guy. But I definitely want to know more about him and his and Grace's history too. 

I am interested in seeing what happens between Grace and the Bishop now as well. At first, I thought that him giving Grace the cold shoulder, was mostly Lady Mae's doing. I still think that Lady Mae may have something to do with his treatment of Grace, but now I also think that he may be treating Grace the way he is, because he feels betrayed by her calling 911 and not giving him more time to deal with the situation regarding Mac.

I'm also wondering what Zora is up to in her room. For a moment there at the end when Jacob knocked on her door and she didn't answer I was afraid she had overdosed on something.  

And I hope we see Mavis again soon. 

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On August 8, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Neurochick said:

The thing about that is, Michaela is a teenager, a minor (I assume).  Teenagers made stupid decisions.  It's up to adults to correct them and put them on the right path.  If Mac truly cared about Michaela's well being, even if he took her to his apartment, he would have called her mother, told her where her daughter was and that he didn't want her waiting in a public lobby.  Then he would have given her a soft drink, sat her down in front of the TV and waited for her mother to pick her up.   No deep conversation, nothing. 

Mac was inappropriate with Michaela, especially when he talked about himself, because he's putting a teenager on the same level as an adult, him, and that's not right.  Talk about schoolwork, or college, or something like that, but the intimate nature of their conversation, is what made it wrong IMO.

And the scotch. Don't forget about Mac giving her the scotch.

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The best moments of the episode were Charity telling Lady Mae and Kevin about themselves.  I can't think of two people who deserve it more. I hate the way her family treats her, like a never-ending annoyance they wish would go away.  The more I see of Charity's relationship with Kevin, the more I become convinced that she loves him, but he is simply using her to hide the truth of who he is.  All of which makes his insistence that Charity become pregnant all the more despicable, it's not enough that he is using her, he now puts kids in the mix.

The way Lady Mae references Grace, "That Girl, Her," etc. you would never guess that she is Grace's mother.  I think Grace overplayed her hand when her father insisted she not call the cops, and she overruled him.  The look on his face when he looked at her during the board meeting was the first time he has looked at her without complete adoration.  As for the issue with Sophia's father, absent finding out something bad about him, I'm on his side in this matter.  Grace took Sophia knowing she didn't have the right to and put her in potential harms way without informing her of the potential danger of being in Mack's presence.  This smacks of Grace not being able to see beyond her own wants and needs, perhaps a trait she inherited from her mother, could explain why they can't seem to stand one another.  

I want Mack gone, but I have a sneaky suspicion that we will be stuck with his character for the foreseeable future.  

I hate that Isabelle took Moah back, but we all knew it was coming.  Now we will get the continuation of Noah and Grace and Isabelle.

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I feel like Bishop James and Lady Mae went backward, especially Mae who found a way to make the debacle with Mac Gigi's fault! Oooh, she made me so mad with that. Thank goodness Charity told her off at breakfast. In fact, Charity being on fire the whole night almost made up for my annoyance with other characters.

I can't believe Isabel took Noah back. But then again I can. I wonder how far the writers are going to take that triangle. Is Isabel right that Noah is in love with his past with Grace? Or he is actually in love with Grace. 

I was pretty meh on Sophia's dad. 

Where is Mavis? She should be in the thick of trying to take down Mac, no?

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There's usually dozens of people roaming the halls but when Gigi steps out with a gun in her hand there's no one around? Hmmm.

I've never understood this "not pressing charges" thing. Isn't shooting someone--absent a self-defense situation--a crime regardless of what the victim thinks? Apparently I skipped class when gunshot incidents between family members were covered on the College of Law & Order because I don't understand how the Bishop simply skated after a night in jail.

Oh, Isabel, don't sell yourself short. Do you really want to be someone's consolation prize? You'll never feel you can trust Noah as long as Gigi is around. That's no way to live.

Was also not impressed with Gigi's ex. Wonder what she saw in him? Guess the casting people wanted to make sure he wasn't hotter than Noah, lol.

I have a feeling Mac is going to off himself. Good riddance if he does.

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15 hours ago, Jx223 said:

I was glad that Charity called Lady Mae out. I like Lynn Whitfield, but I don't like how Lady Mae has been trying to blame just about everything on Grace. She really does seem to have a ton of contempt for Grace. She doesn't seem to want Grace to be happy at all and I think that her encouraging Noah to leave with Isabel a few episodes ago, was more about her trying to make sure Grace wasn't happy, than it was about her caring about Noah/Isabel. Lady Mae acts very sanctimonious and I'm glad that Charity called her out on her attitude and behavior tonight.  I think that Jacob/Grace should have informed Charity about Uncle Mac. I also wonder what the family is going to say about Kevin sleeping on the couch. Kevin is coming across as so fake to me right now.With the way he's been acting and his whole "let me show you my phone" line. At this point, I think that he mostly just cares about not getting caught. I don't think he even really cares that he has to sleep on the couch. He's too busy lusting after random men on the internet. 

I also wonder what type of relationship Grace had with Ray. It doesn't seem like they were married, but I wonder if they had a long term relationship. I wonder if they were ever in love with each other. They seem to have some contempt for each other, and I thought it was interesting how Ray said something about Grace wanting to take away his rights. I wonder why she wanted to do that. My first impression is that he didn't seem like a terrible guy. But I definitely want to know more about him and his and Grace's history too. 

I am interested in seeing what happens between Grace and the Bishop now as well. At first, I thought that him giving Grace the cold shoulder, was mostly Lady Mae's doing. I still think that Lady Mae may have something to do with his treatment of Grace, but now I also think that he may be treating Grace the way he is, because he feels betrayed by her calling 911 and not giving him more time to deal with the situation regarding Mac.

 

The way that family acts, they wouldn't notice Kevin on the couch. The house is also huge. It looks like each Greenleaf child has an apartment instead of a normal bedroom. So Kevin could be sleeping on the couch of Charity's apartment. I think Charity finally got a brain in regards to Kevin. She knows it's not worth looking at the phone because Kevin deleted the evidence. Not that she can't still find it on the phone.  I think Ray and Grace had a long term relationship but it ended bitterly. Ray blames Grace and her personal demons but I'm sure he has his own. Grace said something about Ray not spending a lot of time with Sophia in five years but despite whatever lack of time Ray spent with Sophia, he was the one she called.  One of the problems with the Greenleaf family have is keeping secrets when they shouldn't.  Grace shouldn't have kept Sophia in the dark and if James was upfront on why they couldn't call the police after Mac was shot maybe Grace wouldn't have. 

7 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

The best moments of the episode were Charity telling Lady Mae and Kevin about themselves.  I can't think of two people who deserve it more. I hate the way her family treats her, like a never-ending annoyance they wish would go away.  The more I see of Charity's relationship with Kevin, the more I become convinced that she loves him, but he is simply using her to hide the truth of who he is.  All of which makes his insistence that Charity become pregnant all the more despicable, it's not enough that he is using her, he now puts kids in the mix.

The way Lady Mae references Grace, "That Girl, Her," etc. you would never guess that she is Grace's mother.  I think Grace overplayed her hand when her father insisted she not call the cops, and she overruled him.  The look on his face when he looked at her during the board meeting was the first time he has looked at her without complete adoration.  As for the issue with Sophia's father, absent finding out something bad about him, I'm on his side in this matter.  Grace took Sophia knowing she didn't have the right to and put her in potential harms way without informing her of the potential danger of being in Mack's presence.  This smacks of Grace not being able to see beyond her own wants and needs, perhaps a trait she inherited from her mother, could explain why they can't seem to stand one another.  

Kevin is using Charity as his beard. Maybe he thought by marrying Charity, he can squelch his desire for men. When that didn't work, he suggested kids. Now he knows that's not true. I hope Charity sticks to her guns if she finds out about Kevin and send him packing but given how some women are portrayed here (Kerissa and Isabel) she may work a deal with Kevin to save face.

That's how I feel about Grace, too. If Grace was upfront with Sophia, Sophia wouldn't have gotten upset with her and wouldn't have called her Dad. Grace's actions is what led Ray to Greenleaf and is giving him a strong case with a judge to find Grace unfit to care for Sophia.

 

 

5 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I feel like Bishop James and Lady Mae went backward, especially Mae who found a way to make the debacle with Mac Gigi's fault! Oooh, she made me so mad with that. Thank goodness Charity told her off at breakfast. In fact, Charity being on fire the whole night almost made up for my annoyance with other characters.

I can't believe Isabel took Noah back. But then again I can. I wonder how far the writers are going to take that triangle. Is Isabel right that Noah is in love with his past with Grace? Or he is actually in love with Grace. 

I was pretty meh on Sophia's dad. 

Where is Mavis? She should be in the thick of trying to take down Mac, no?

Mavis has her empire to run ;) Seriously though Mavis did text Grace to celebrate but Grace ignored the texts. She should be in next week's show at least. Grace needs to unload and the only person she can do that with is Mavis. James is angry at Grace for calling the police and in his anger he's allowing Lady Mae's venom at Grace to sink in and blind him. You saw how smug Lady Mae looked at Grace when James told to Grace to leave? Whoo! She wanted to dance in the streets with that victory.

Isabel may be there until the season end but she did pose a good question. Is Noah in love with the past he had with Grace or with Grace herself still? Right now, I would say the former. It's been 20 years and people change and because the relationship never resolved, there are still those unresolved feelings. So much drama and only three episodes left. Not enough time! :)

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1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

There's usually dozens of people roaming the halls but when Gigi steps out with a gun in her hand there's no one around? Hmmm.

I've never understood this "not pressing charges" thing. Isn't shooting someone--absent a self-defense situation--a crime regardless of what the victim thinks? Apparently I skipped class when gunshot incidents between family members were covered on the College of Law & Order because I don't understand how the Bishop simply skated after a night in jail.

Oh, Isabel, don't sell yourself short. Do you really want to be someone's consolation prize? You'll never feel you can trust Noah as long as Gigi is around. That's no way to live.

Was also not impressed with Gigi's ex. Wonder what she saw in him? Guess the casting people wanted to make sure he wasn't hotter than Noah, lol.

I have a feeling Mac is going to off himself. Good riddance if he does.

If Grace really wanted to stop her father from shooting Mac, she would've been running down the hall not walking fast. Just saying. I assumed Lady Mae paid bail to get James out. If Mac off himself, he's bringing Calvary, James and Lady Mae down with him. He has too much dirt on the family to go down alone and with his sister not believing in him anymore, I'll be surprise he let that go without payback.

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This week's episode was a real letdown after last week's.

Sure, it had a lot of nice character moments, but the prolonged emphasis on many of the show's existing plot holes this week (many of which we here have previously discussed) underscores just how sloppy and plot dependent the show really is.

That said, Deborah Joy Winans was stellar this week. Although Greenleaf is her first major job as an actress, she acquitted herself like a seasoned pro. The scenes where she tears through her family over breakfast and boots Kevin from their marital bed were genuine bright spots in an otherwise boring episode.

I had quite a laugh at Lady Mae's frustration at Kerissa praising the fresh berries and Charity "being on her feet like her dignity's at stake."  Lynn Whitfield is a gem.

I'm glad to see Kerissa and Jacob's relationship is on the mend. They'd be quite a formidable team if he wasn't a flaky mama's boy and she wasn't a social climbing shrew.

Bishop publically dismissing Gigi was cold. Even colder was Mae's cat that ate the canary expression at Gigi as he did it.

Ray had good reason to want custody of Sophia and it was good of Sophia to call her father. Even if Ray isn't father of the year, Grace potentially putting Sophia in harm's way for her own purposes was really low (especially given the circumstances).

I'd have more sympathy for Isabel wanting to work on her relationship with Noah if she hadn't made a habit of passive aggressively attacking Grace. She viewed Grace as a threat from the moment they met, so her acting as if Noah is the only one in that relationship who needed to be honest about their feelings about Grace was more than a tad bit ironic.

I'm with everyone else at wanting to see Auntie Mavis again. Way too much has been going on with way too many people in her family for her to be M.I.A. for so long.

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9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

I have a feeling Mac is going to off himself. Good riddance if he does.

It wouldn't surprise me if he killed himself either. I could see that happening or maybe him dying of a heart attack and him begging for forgiveness as he's drawing his last breath. One thing I have learned from watching and being a fan of soaps in the past, is that child molesters/rapists don't usually last long on a soap. They usually die or maybe go to jail. I think that there isn't a place anymore for Mac on the show and that he will be out of the picture soon.  

8 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

The way that family acts, they wouldn't notice Kevin on the couch. The house is also huge. It looks like each Greenleaf child has an apartment instead of a normal bedroom. So Kevin could be sleeping on the couch of Charity's apartment. I think Charity finally got a brain in regards to Kevin. She knows it's not worth looking at the phone because Kevin deleted the evidence. Not that she can't still find it on the phone.  I think Ray and Grace had a long term relationship but it ended bitterly. Ray blames Grace and her personal demons but I'm sure he has his own...

Isabel may be there until the season end but she did pose a good question. Is Noah in love with the past he had with Grace or with Grace herself still? Right now, I would say the former. It's been 20 years and people change and because the relationship never resolved, there are still those unresolved feelings. So much drama and only three episodes left. Not enough time! :)

I think that it's interesting how little the people in the family interact with each other. Lady Mae and the Bishop really only interact with each other, Mac,  Grace, and Jacob somewhat. Grace only interacts with Sophia, her parents, Noah and Jacob/Mavis a little. Charity doesn't really interact with anyone but her husband. The siblings interact with their spouses and children but rarely interact with each other.  Grace and Charity might as well be strangers to each other.

Nobody interacted with Ray, when he came to town, except Sophia and Darlene. If the father of my niece/grandchild came to town, I would want to talk with him, especially if I had never met him before. But we didn't even get a scene of Lady Mae possibly acting disapproving towards Ray or even an awkward scene between him and Noah. I think that the lack of interaction with the members of this family, shows how fractured the family is. 

Also, I wonder what exact issues may have caused Grace/Ray's relationship to possibly have ended bitterly. Something had to happen between them for each of them to think that the other one shouldn't have custody/is unfit for Sophia. We know why Ray currently feels this way, but I wonder why Grace felt like Ray shouldn't have rights to Sophia as Ray mentioned on last night's episode. I wonder if maybe he's been reckless in some way in the past making Grace feel like he's not the best role model for Sophia. 

Regarding Noah/Isabel/Grace, I think that Noah is still in love with Grace. I think that Isabel could be setting herself up for more heartbreak. It would be interesting if he was just in love with the past he had with Grace, but I think that he is still actually in love with her. He told her he loved her before they slept together. Maybe they will ultimately end up back together. Though I actually thought that Grace had some chemistry with officer Nelson and wouldn't have minded seeing a romance with them being explored ( even if she still ultimately reunited with Noah) had he not been killed off. 

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Thank goodness that this is an Oprah Winfrey production and not a Tyler Perry one: if it was a Perry show, a white agnostic/atheist, as Ray seems to be, would be an absolute monster.  As it is, he seems to really care about Sophia (and she cares about him -- there was no bitterness about him being away for 5 years).

Charity was definitely the star of this episode!

I am glad that of Isabel is taking Noah back, at least she seems to be doing so on her terms.

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On 8/10/2016 at 11:38 PM, Arcadiasw said:

I was doubtful but it seems Jacob and Kerissa really are working to patch up their marriage. 

it's bothering me, though, that Jacob and his cheating with the side piece was such a big story line in the beginning of the show, then all of a sudden  Ms. side piece is booted and Jacob is now happy as a pig in shit with Kerissa and is a great, caring dad and family man? Please, come on, now. 

Why is Mae not close with Mavis? Lynn Whitfield is such a good actress but damn her hairline starting back by her ears is so distracting... can't they find a nice wig for her?

It must have been hell for Grace to grow up with a mother that blatantly hates her so much. 

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Mae holds more than a bit of contempt for all of her daughters. The only one of her children she seems to have a halfway decent relationship with is Jacob, and even then, she doesn't seem all that fond of his wife.  And given she also doesn't seem to be close to Mavis, maybe she's just one of those women who is easily threatened by other women.

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On August 11, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Happytobehere said:

As for the issue with Sophia's father, absent finding out something bad about him, I'm on his side in this matter.

If he was such a caring father, why didn't HE call Sophia?  Why did he wait until she called him?  I wanted Sophie to tell her "father" that these were "her people," she was happy there.  I think what confuses Ray is what he told Grace that when they first met, she told him her father's home was "evil."  So he can't get why she wants to stay there, he even told her that she should come back with him.  I resent him telling Grace that he was going to take Sophia back, to me it reeked of "white male-ism" meaning, "I do what I want because I'm a MAN."  

When I was in college, I had a roommate whose dad was white and her mom was Asian.  Her father could not accept that his daughter was half Japanese, he never even allowed her mother to speak Japanese in front of her.  To him, HIS daughter was white and that was all there was to it, even though she didn't look white to anybody who had a pair of eyes.  Finally, when she was twenty, she went to her father and told him straight up, "I'm not white daddy, deal with it."  Ray didn't even hear his daughter when she told him how happy she was there, what a douche.

Lady Mae reminds me of something I heard as a teenager, "some mothers raise their daughters but love their sons."

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On 8/13/2016 at 0:58 PM, Neurochick said:

Lady Mae reminds me of something I heard as a teenager, "some mothers raise their daughters but love their sons."

It happens in a lot of families.  My sister reminded me of this saying when we discussed our own brother a few years ago.

I'm glad Charity stopped whining and finally found her own voice and refused to allow "Lady" Mae to act all brand new now.  Her read of "Lady" Mae was epic and long overdue.  I had to go back and watch the pilot episode On Demand.  It struck me as odd that Grace was shut down when she rightly spoke up about how outrageous it was that Uncle Mac was sitting there at the table when her parents were told years ago what he had done to Faith.  James clearly looked uncomfortable.  I also saw red when Uncle Mac spoke disrespectfully to Charity.  The only one who came to her defense was Grace, who was promptly put in her place by her mother.  It makes me wonder at what point, in some families, do adult children get to assert themselves with their elders and not be chastised for it.  My mother, a native South Carolinian, grew up in such an environment.  However, when she became a mother herself, she made it clear you didn't mess with her kids.  No way would that creep had been sitting at our table, and she sure as hell wouldn't have allowed him to talk to us any kind of way.

I agree with others that Aunt Mavis' absence is quite jarring.  After all, Grace only intended to stay for two days.  However, it was Aunt Mavis who put her on the case, particularly when she made it clear that her brother's behavior hadn't stopped.

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:58 AM, Jx223 said:

I think that it's interesting how little the people in the family interact with each other. Lady Mae and the Bishop really only interact with each other, Mac,  Grace, and Jacob somewhat. Grace only interacts with Sophia, her parents, Noah and Jacob/Mavis a little. Charity doesn't really interact with anyone but her husband. The siblings interact with their spouses and children but rarely interact with each other.  Grace and Charity might as well be strangers to each other.

Nobody interacted with Ray, when he came to town, except Sophia and Darlene. If the father of my niece/grandchild came to town, I would want to talk with him, especially if I had never met him before. But we didn't even get a scene of Lady Mae possibly acting disapproving towards Ray or even an awkward scene between him and Noah. I think that the lack of interaction with the members of this family, shows how fractured the family is. 

Also, I wonder what exact issues may have caused Grace/Ray's relationship to possibly have ended bitterly. Something had to happen between them for each of them to think that the other one shouldn't have custody/is unfit for Sophia. We know why Ray currently feels this way, but I wonder why Grace felt like Ray shouldn't have rights to Sophia as Ray mentioned on last night's episode. I wonder if maybe he's been reckless in some way in the past making Grace feel like he's not the best role model for Sophia. 

Regarding Noah/Isabel/Grace, I think that Noah is still in love with Grace. I think that Isabel could be setting herself up for more heartbreak. It would be interesting if he was just in love with the past he had with Grace, but I think that he is still actually in love with her. He told her he loved her before they slept together. Maybe they will ultimately end up back together. Though I actually thought that Grace had some chemistry with officer Nelson and wouldn't have minded seeing a romance with them being explored ( even if she still ultimately reunited with Noah) had he not been killed off. 

It really makes you wonder what life was like for the Greenleaf children growing up and how close they were if at all. With Grace gone for 20 years, it can be hard to restart that sibling relationship. Maybe the writers feel sibling interaction isn't important to the show but it is. There's a gold mine of subplots there. Grace has returned after 20 years and there's no sibling talk away from their parents and spouses? There's a lot for them to say to each other. While Jacob is okay with Grace being back, Charity has been bitter at Grace. That bitterness could come from years of hearing James praise Grace so much while she is shut down at doing anything but choir or at Grace being away for so long. Charity was a kid when Grace left. The way the family acts around her I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't know the real reason Grace left. She could be left to think the wrong thing hence the resentment. 

 

I did find it interesting Grace wants to stay after she takes down Mac. That's the implication I got from her conversation with Ray but I wonder why. Her only focus for staying has been to take down Mac but after that, it hasn't been showed why she would stay. It can't be because of her family can it? As it's been pointed out, we've only seen her interact with her parents, Mavis, Noah and daughter. We've not seen Grace reconnect with her siblings, getting to know her niece and nephew or even her sister and brother-in-law. If she has, then it's a fail on the writers telling us and not showing us. That's the only issue I have with the writing on the show. It's good but the writers either start plots and leave it in limbo, wrapped some up rather quickly or skipped plots that would’ve been beneficial. (Zora drug issue and pulling Sophia in it; Kerissa encouraging the teacher to ‘help’ the kids with standardized test; Kerissa and Jacob patching up their marriage rather fast. Nothing from the mistress??; and no interaction with Grace and her family besides her parents or Mac.) Doing that can hurt a show with a limited amount of episodes.

 

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 5:24 AM, jhlipton said:

Thank goodness that this is an Oprah Winfrey production and not a Tyler Perry one: if it was a Perry show, a white agnostic/atheist, as Ray seems to be, would be an absolute monster.  As it is, he seems to really care about Sophia (and she cares about him -- there was no bitterness about him being away for 5 years).

Charity was definitely the star of this episode!

I am glad that of Isabel is taking Noah back, at least she seems to be doing so on her terms.

Is he an atheist? If so, it can explain one of the reasons why Grace was drawn to him but I'm not sure if he is one. He doesn't have fondness for church, particularly Calvary because of what Grace told him but not being fond of church because of the hypocrisy of people's behavior and atheist are two different things. So far, Ray isn't a monster and he cares for Sophia and even Grace to an extent. He told Grace she can come with him. If he hated Grace, he wouldn't have made that offer.

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:00 PM, Dee said:

Mae holds more than a bit of contempt for all of her daughters. The only one of her children she seems to have a halfway decent relationship with is Jacob, and even then, she doesn't seem all that fond of his wife.  And given she also doesn't seem to be close to Mavis, maybe she's just one of those women who is easily threatened by other women.

And jealously. It's really sad to be threatened and jealous of your own child but it happens and I've seen it with women I've worked with and the underlying theme seems to be insecurity and their personal demons getting the best of them.

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 0:58 PM, Neurochick said:

If he was such a caring father, why didn't HE call Sophia?  Why did he wait until she called him?  I wanted Sophie to tell her "father" that these were "her people," she was happy there.  I think what confuses Ray is what he told Grace that when they first met, she told him her father's home was "evil."  So he can't get why she wants to stay there, he even told her that she should come back with him.  I resent him telling Grace that he was going to take Sophia back, to me it reeked of "white male-ism" meaning, "I do what I want because I'm a MAN."  

When I was in college, I had a roommate whose dad was white and her mom was Asian.  Her father could not accept that his daughter was half Japanese, he never even allowed her mother to speak Japanese in front of her.  To him, HIS daughter was white and that was all there was to it, even though she didn't look white to anybody who had a pair of eyes.  Finally, when she was twenty, she went to her father and told him straight up, "I'm not white daddy, deal with it."  Ray didn't even hear his daughter when she told him how happy she was there, what a douche.

Lady Mae reminds me of something I heard as a teenager, "some mothers raise their daughters but love their sons."

That's not white male-ism. That's any male-ism. Ray lives in Phoenix so unless the church shooting was national news, he probably didn't know. Also in the show after the church shooting Ray did call Grace and she ignored it. So it's possible Ray knew about the shooting and talked to Sophia about it. The church shooting had no direct ties to Sophia. It would be no different if Sophia was at the mall and there was a shooting. So while it's concerning Ray may have felt Sophia was safe and there was no need to question Grace because she didn't know the shooting was gonna happen. However Mac and his raping of girls put Sophia at risk and Grace's parenting in question and when Sophia told Ray about Mac and her grandfather shooting him, that's was the last straw for him. The fact Ray got on a plane and flew in the next day shows he does care about Sophia despite what Grace said. 

That said, his parenting skills are as questionable as Grace or it's the writers changing the plot to suit the current drama. In the pilot Grace was going to New York after Faith's funeral for a job. So I assumed Ray knew and agreed of Grace moving her and Sophia from Arizona to New York and basically relinquish most of the parenting to Grace. In the second show Sophia told Grace Ray would be calling and wants to know why she didn't take the job in New York. Again it implies Ray knew and was okay with Sophia moving to New York, but in the last show Ray mentioned per their custody agreement Grace had to consult him if she moved Sophia across the state line and since she didn't he could've went to a judge but he chose not to. So either the writers changed things or when Grace made plans to move to New York,, she didn't discuss it with Ray and if she didn't, that means Ray let it slide when he found out and given she had primary custody of Sophia, Ray didn't fight her on changing plans and trusted her judgment moving her and Sophia to the family Grace told him was evil. That was his mistake.

Since we don't know the history of Grace and Ray, I will only judge Ray on what we know so far. His mistakes are not going to court when Grace took Sophia over state line without consulting him or visiting the Greenleaf family sooner. Grace did tell him her family was evil. When he found out Grace and Sophia were living there, he should visited the place and people himself sooner to check it out but he didn't. I guess he trusted Grace's judgment. A judge would question why he waited so long to say something and his wanting to take Sophia from a place she's happy at. Ray could argue Mac but so far he's in the hospital and will go to jail and will not pose an immediate threat to Sophia. Ray's second mistake is not letting Sophia have a say in where she wants to live. I think she's sixteen on the show. Not six. So as much as Ray wants Sophia to live with him (his anger at Grace as well as questioning Sophia's safety) it's not solely his decision anymore.  

Even though Grace is the star and heroine of the show, it doesn't mean she's right and without her own flaws even though we know the writers will let her keep Sophia and win whatever custody battle if it comes to that on the show. It's TV after all. :P There's much we don't know about Grace and Ray. From what Ray said, the relationship soured after Sophia was born. Grace said Ray wasn't in Sophia's life for five years but why was that? Was that deliberate on her part or was Ray not ready for the responsibility? It's something that should be explored. Grace also had a weak defense against Ray over Mac. She said Mac isn't living at the house so Sophia wasn't in danger. So what? I doubt Mac was living in the house with Faith and Mac didn't share the house with all the other girls he victimized.

7 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

James clearly looked uncomfortable.  I also saw red when Uncle Mac spoke disrespectfully to Charity.  The only one who came to her defense was Grace, who was promptly put in her place by her mother.  It makes me wonder at what point, in some families, do adult children get to assert themselves with their elders and not be chastised for it.  My mother, a native South Carolinian, grew up in such an environment.  However, when she became a mother herself, she made it clear you didn't mess with her kids.  No way would that creep had been sitting at our table, and she sure as hell wouldn't have allowed him to talk to us any kind of way.

 

I think adult kids have to do that with their parents and siblings especially if they are the younger siblings like Charity. In a lot of families, the youngest is always seen as the baby and whatever things parents or older siblings got away with doing to the youngest when they are kids, they feel they can do that as adult and until that sibling stands up to their family and assert themselves it won't change.

 

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Wasn't that Mavis calling Grace at the end of the episode?

Yep. She wanted to pop champagne but because of her own drama and what bringing down Mac may cost her, Grace ignored the call and text.

 

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:18 PM, Dee said:

 

I'm glad to see Kerissa and Jacob's relationship is on the mend. They'd be quite a formidable team if he wasn't a flaky mama's boy and she wasn't a social climbing shrew.

 

If Kerissa plays her cards right, she could get the committee to oust James and Lady Mae or at least get some of their power taken away, Jacob reinstated and doing more preaching on Sundays. She could be in Lady Mae's chair on Sundays sooner than later. Charity nailed it when she questioned her mother not knowing about Mac. The heads of the church are already discussing sitting James down because he shot Mac and they don't know why he did it. When everyone learns about Mac and if other girls come forward, other members of the church will have to question how much James and Lady Mae knew since he's family. It could cause members to leave the church and join Paster Skanks. To save the church, the committee may decide a new face of the church is needed until the scandal is over and Kerissa could manipulate her and Jacob into James and Lady Mae's current position. 

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52 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

That said, his parenting skills are as questionable as Grace or it's the writers changing the plot to suit the current drama. In the pilot Grace was going to New York after Faith's funeral for a job. So I assumed Ray knew and agreed of Grace moving her and Sophia from Arizona to New York and basically relinquish most of the parenting to Grace. In the second show Sophia told Grace Ray would be calling and wants to know why she didn't take the job in New York. Again it implies Ray knew and was okay with Sophia moving to New York, but in the last show Ray mentioned per their custody agreement Grace had to consult him if she moved Sophia across the state line and since she didn't he could've went to a judge but he chose not to. So either the writers changed things or when Grace made plans to move to New York,, she didn't discuss it with Ray and if she didn't, that means Ray let it slide when he found out and given she had primary custody of Sophia, Ray didn't fight her on changing plans and trusted her judgment moving her and Sophia to the family Grace told him was evil. That was his mistake.

 

I think that's why I didn't get Ray.  If he had no problem with Grace and Sophia moving to NY, then why did he show up and say, "I was supposed to be consulted if you took her out of state."  Huh?  So has he been looking for Sophia this whole time?  If not, that means he was just chilling until Sophia called him, so how upset could he have been?  

Maybe there should have been a line where he said, "I didn't mind you moving to NY, but not staying with your family; you told me that place was evil."  That would have made sense.  

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27 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I think that's why I didn't get Ray.  If he had no problem with Grace and Sophia moving to NY, then why did he show up and say, "I was supposed to be consulted if you took her out of state."  Huh?  So has he been looking for Sophia this whole time?  If not, that means he was just chilling until Sophia called him, so how upset could he have been?  

Maybe there should have been a line where he said, "I didn't mind you moving to NY, but not staying with your family; you told me that place was evil."  That would have made sense.  

Agreed. It could be a writer's flub or he was busy getting his business set up and enjoying his nice condo that he trusted Grace with raising their daughter until Sophia called him. Who knows.

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14 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

If Kerissa plays her cards right, she could get the committee to oust James and Lady Mae or at least get some of their power taken away, Jacob reinstated and doing more preaching on Sundays. She could be in Lady Mae's chair on Sundays sooner than later. Charity nailed it when she questioned her mother not knowing about Mac. The heads of the church are already discussing sitting James down because he shot Mac and they don't know why he did it. When everyone learns about Mac and if other girls come forward, other members of the church will have to question how much James and Lady Mae knew since he's family. It could cause members to leave the church and join Paster Skanks. To save the church, the committee may decide a new face of the church is needed until the scandal is over and Kerissa could manipulate her and Jacob into James and Lady Mae's current position. 

I think Kerissa had a revelation at the dinner table when she astutely made the observation that her daddy instilled in her that she had to be the best of the best to marry Jacob and, by extension, the Greenleaf family.  As she ironically pointed out, she graduated with honors from Spellman and had other accomplishments, but she is the one who had to prove she was worthy to be in their family.   

I could definitely see Kerissa manipulating things to her and Jacob's advantage.  Nor, would I be surprised if some of James' disillusioned flock transferred their membership another church.  The faithful have left their churches--along with their tithes and offerings--for far less than a mess than this.  

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5 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

I think Kerissa had a revelation at the dinner table when she astutely made the observation that her daddy instilled in her that she had to be the best of the best to marry Jacob and, by extension, the Greenleaf family.  As she ironically pointed out, she graduated with honors from Spellman and had other accomplishments, but she is the one who had to prove she was worthy to be in their family.   

I could definitely see Kerissa manipulating things to her and Jacob's advantage.  Nor, would I be surprised if some of James' disillusioned flock transferred their membership another church.  The faithful have left their churches--along with their tithes and offerings--for far less than a mess than this.  

Chile please. Eddie Long and Jamal Bryant and Creflo still have congregations!

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1 hour ago, announcergirl said:

Chile please. Eddie Long and Jamal Bryant and Creflo still have congregations!

LOL!  See, now you owe me a new keyboard!  I laughed so hard at this that I spit water all over my desk!

All I can say is, tell the truth!

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What does Mac have on Bishop James? I'm perturbed that Bishop has gone from wanting justice for Faith and Mac's other victims to merely wanting to cover his own ass. Hypocrite.

Lady Mae was in incredible shade-throwing form with Meliz, her now-former housekeeper.

Love the relationship between Grace and Sophia. 

Noah didn't look like he was missing Isabelle at all.

Jacob wanting to go to Triumph is an interesting development. I don't know, but I love Pastor Skanks in all his mustache-twirling glory.

I've said it before, but can they move the Kevin/Charity story along? Every other story has had some movement, but this one has just dragged and become repetitive.

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I take back what I said about the past plots dropping off. I guess with Mac in jail the show could finally focus on the other plots they started with.

I’m wondering if Mac is gonna hang himself in prison. That phone call to James makes me think he’s not long for this world.

I guess we can’t be too surprised Alexa is back. It’s the perfect time now that Calvary’s image is damaged. I’m surprised she isn’t pregnant and she attends Pastor Skanks church. As soon as Jacob learned that, he should’ve changed his mind working with Pastor Skanks who I want to smack! LOL!  Jacob is nuts to consider working with Pastor Skanks knowing Alexa is there and told Skanks of their relationship. Kerissa is not gonna go for that especially with them seemingly getting their marriage back on track.

I get what James is saying to Jacob and I was for Jacob being reinstated and proving himself he wants to preach even though he wanted to play baseball but after that scene with Jacob and Pastor Skanks, I think Jacob wants to preach because it's a convenient option and Jacob still keeps his social status in the church community and he doesn't really want to try and find out what he wants to do. 

I really want to know what Mac has on James.

Note to self: Do not get on Lady Mae’s bad side.

What the hell Grace? You went to Noah? Talk to Mavis!! Speaking of Noah, he made his decision he wants to be with Grace. I know a month has passed between shows but I would’ve liked to have seen that apology Noah owes Grace.

Grace and Noah. Those two. He wants her. She’s reluctant. She obviously knows Noah wants more than friendship but she’s trying to avoid the obvious elephant in the room. She can't play dumb forever. She needs to talk to him but mostly she needs to talk to Mavis and I'm glad she's back next week.

I’m glad we got more on Grace and Ray. He’s a jerk for cheating but I still get why he would fight Grace for custody. She did goof but Grace still has the upper hand on this custody battle. Sophia’s choice on where she wants to live should hold a lot of weight. Sophia saying Greenleaf place was the first time this feels like home makes me want to know what life was like for Sophia growing up.

Edited by Arcadiasw
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27 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

What does Mac have on Bishop James? I'm perturbed that Bishop has gone from wanting justice for Faith and Mac's other victims to merely wanting to cover his own ass. Hypocrite.

Lady Mae was in incredible shade-throwing form with Meliz, her now-former housekeeper.

Love the relationship between Grace and Sophia. 

Noah didn't look like he was missing Isabelle at all.

Jacob wanting to go to Triumph is an interesting development. I don't know, but I love Pastor Skanks in all his mustache-twirling glory.

I've said it before, but can they move the Kevin/Charity story along? Every other story has had some movement, but this one has just dragged and become repetitive.

I'm starting to think it's more than taxes Mac has on James but if Mac offs himself it won't matter anymore.

You're right. Noah has made his choice. It was a waste bringing Isabel back last week.

From the tease of next week we might get something with Kevin/Charity. Might. I'm more excited seeing Mavis back though.

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I feel like I missed an episode or a major development.  Mac gets shot and the pastor is arrested and jailed as a result.    And the pastor is bailed out and shows up with Mae at the deacons' meeting.  Do we know what he was charged with?

Then after being shot, there's Mac in the hospital handcuffed to the bed.  Did I blink and miss a scene about how that came to pass?   I assume it's because of the molestation allegations, but there seems to be a gaping hole in presenting the details onscreen.  There are too many redundant and/or filler scenes, but the main plot about Mac seems disjointed and incomplete.  We still have no indication of what happened to the girl he had in his apartment, do we?

I had high hopes for this, but my interest is beginning to fade.  I'm tired of Grace's two expressions on her face, I'm bored by her beautiful daughter's angst and their boring scenes, and Noah is attractive yet still so very bland to me.  I don't know if it's the writing, the casting, or some of the acting choices that's going wrong for me.  For me, the scenes only come alive when the pastor, Mae, Kerissa and her daughter, and Charity are onscreen. 

I'll probably finish the season half-heartedly.  But still looking forward to Queen Sugar.

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