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S02.E02: Insurgent

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Long sigh... It wasn't a terrible episode. It just feels early for filler. Like Rachel, I felt like Jay denied me the big fight that last week was building up to so nicely which let a lot of the air out of this episode. It was kind of scattered with too many characters to focus on. I also think the actresses they cast for the contestants at this point seem weaker than the ones we had last season like Faith and Anna so it's harder to jump right into caring about them. I think it was a mistake to throw Chet in and sever the tie between Rachel and Darius. It didn't have to be romantic like with Adam but without that tie, it feels like we're watching too many different shows. There are too many teams. Which reminds me... I know they had to do something to bolster Team Chet to make him a credible threat but I don't like the new guy with his half rimmed glasses. The only thing more obnoxious would be if he had Google Glass. I was prepared for a season of Rachel and Quinn working their magic with a new crop of contestants. That's what I was promised in the season finale. I don't want this nonsense network BS. Stop giving me Smash, UnReal. I want the actual business of putting together a reality show. Why is this always such a problem for TV shows?

Edited by aradia22
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Sarah said in an interview that she hates Madison and piles on every indignity she can. I'm not sure if that's the best approach for a writer, but I guess Madison is comic relief. She's definitely naive and it seems like she's pretty dumb, too. But she's ambitious as hell and doesn't mind using sex to manipulate men.

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This topic is for episode episode discussion; the Media topic is the spot to discuss the New Yorker article. Posts are going to be moved going forward.

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Quinn is being a grade A bitch, and it could be Chet drama, and it could be just that this is Quinn's completely dysfunctional version of "tough love."

To me, particularly that scene where Quinn said "maybe your mom is right" felt like her "producing" Rachel. That tone of it, the way she was speaking, the way she got Rachel to cry... I wonder if Rachel had enough perspective at that vulnerable moment to see it.

I am reminded that what I like about Yael is that she's really Hot Rachel. Emphasis on the Rachel part. I'm not sure how believable it is but I'm interested to see how she might manipulate situations/people to get her way.

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I do wish I could get my CCs to work on because I am tired of rewinding to figure out what Rachel mumbles.  I have no problem with anyone else on this show or others, but something about her mumbly delivery has bugged me since last season.

I don't think it's just her but yes, this stands out as a show where people mumble to the point that even rewinding, sometimes I miss snippets of dialogue. 

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How did Chet "steal the suitor," and how does he have any power over the show at all? Can anyone just show up on the set of a television show and start ordering cameramen and producers around, and they just have to listen because...reasons?

Last episode, Chet came to set, found Darius and took him away to his house. He also "stole" him in the sense that he got into his head about network deals as a sportscaster, etc. so he's more difficult for Quinn and Rachel to manipulate. Chet is still seen as the creator of Everlasting and I think he still has a majority share of whatever that means though I think he signed 40% to Quinn last season. They listen because even though Quinn is showrunner and the boss on the ground, they still think Chet has the real power. And because apparently Everlasting mostly hires men who are a-holes aside from the nervous guy who is always running around asking Rachel things. I get that even on a show like Everlasting, the technical crew will mainly be guys but they didn't have play it so you could easily believe that when shooting stops, they go to their weekly MRA meeting.

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IS RACHEL THE SHOWRUNNER OR NOT? I swear I have heard them call her the showrunner, but Quinn keeps saying SHE is in charge, and now with Chet, I just have no idea what's going on, and I am ashamed.

I think she is but right now it's a nominal position (assuming the new guy wasn't just given the job). That's why Rachel was complaining that the crew wouldn't respect her authority if Quinn took control. 

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Why is Jay risking his job to help Black Power Chick? 

The hell if I know. The thing is, he's not even producing her well. She doesn't have to get into a fight but telling her to be boring is not going to get her to the finals. I hope he steps up soon.

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So they are taping the premiere of Everlasting and they totally skipped the exit-the-carriage intros? They're just having a pool party with no introductions whatsoever? 

I assume so. That was part of the confusion of handling too many storylines. My assumption is they just went to one on one time with the girls being introduced to Darius in the cabana. Though I don't remember them really introducing themselves like "my name is..." 

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the genius of the scene is not just that Rachel was betraying Quinn, but that this was pure desperation and of course Gary noticed that and brought in a new person. Rachel's facial expression was basically "Please. Give me the show pretty please. I promise I won't fuck it up. Please. Please."

I feel like I could hear the tears in Shiri's voice. That was a great way to play that scene though I was kind of cringing hoping Rachel would get it together. I don't mind unlikable characters. Watching everyone be depressed and miserable and bitter is another thing. 

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Sarah wrote him as a one season character.  The networks stepped in and said he needs to stay. They said he's like the guys in Lifetime movies. The network wants Jeremy to be Rachel's Mr Big. I've seen some of my favorite shows change for the worse because the network stepped in. 

WOW. What? That's bananas. No wonder they had to change the tagline from "TV for women." Sure, Jeremy's like the guys in Lifetime movies. The ones who act sweet while stalking a woman and then when they get found out and rejected, they try to run them over with their cars. 

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I still don't get how Chet has any skills whatsoever to produce a television show. A creator does not a producer make -- they seem like entirely different skill sets. Didn't he bomb when he produced the show's wedding episode last year? This is all seeming really contrived, and it hurts my heart. I also find it hard to believe that he's able to manipulate the show out from under Quinn. In order to keep Chet on the show, they've made Quinn stupid, and I hate that. Unless this is supposed to be a big inside joke that people will always respect men in power positions, even if they have no talent. But I'm not sure the show is that subtle.

The ironic thing, to me, is that Chet used to just be able to lounge around the set and essentially not do much, and in order to "take back his power," he's actually lowered himself to competing for the role of showrunner. In essence, he's fighting for a demotion. Whereas last year, there was Chet, Quinn and Rachel, now there's no Chet, with Quinn, Chet and Rachel competing to be the new Quinn. Or something.

I'm glad to see a shake-up with the new guy -- maybe it will help to clarify some roles a little bit.

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I will say that one of my biggest issues with the episode is that for character who was so concerned with protecting his image in the last episode, Darius, seemed to be cavalier with things that will honestly only hurt his image. The show seemed to imply that the NFL in the Everlasting universe is having some of the same issues with misogyny and violence against women that our real NFL is. Darius agreed to be the suitor because he knows his optics with women aren't great. Why he agreed to Chet's opening with the bikini party is beyond me? It hits all of those stereotypes about athletes and black men to have his crew roll up grinding up on bikini clad women. This cannot help his image. Where is this higher standard that Darius alleged that he held himself to? And his manager is poison and garbage because he's got to know that the shit Chet is filming doesn't help his client. It also seems like the NFL and the team would have someone on set to make sure that Darius, the show, and apparently the team owner's daughter isn't disparaging the teams and the NFL.

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I binge watched the first season last week and loved it. Not loving S2 so far. I liked Chet in S1. He was funny. Now he is a misogynistic asshole. Jeremy is a total douche. I'll keep watching and hope it improves.

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Here's what bugged the most: a show by women, on a network for women, showing that women have little interest in mentoring their own.  Nice.

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I actually liked Jeremy season 1, especially when he dropped his camera to protect Rachel from that crazy ex of the lady who killed herself. He's angry with Rachel at the moment for repeatedly jerking him around (and he's behaving like an unprofessional jerk)but I suspect he will get over it soon.

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3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I will say that one of my biggest issues with the episode is that for character who was so concerned with protecting his image in the last episode, Darius, seemed to be cavalier with things that will honestly only hurt his image. The show seemed to imply that the NFL in the Everlasting universe is having some of the same issues with misogyny and violence against women that our real NFL is. Darius agreed to be the suitor because he knows his optics with women aren't great. Why he agreed to Chet's opening with the bikini party is beyond me? It hits all of those stereotypes about athletes and black men to have his crew roll up grinding up on bikini clad women. This cannot help his image. Where is this higher standard that Darius alleged that he held himself to? And his manager is poison and garbage because he's got to know that the shit Chet is filming doesn't help his client. It also seems like the NFL and the team would have someone on set to make sure that Darius, the show, and apparently the team owner's daughter isn't disparaging the teams and the NFL.

Thats an excellent point.  In what universe does going on a "Bachelor" type show with your entourage seem like a good idea?  People want to think that you are really there to find the one no matter how silly it seems.  The suitor needs to be the guy who is above the fray while the womenfolk fight for his attention.  Bringing your entire crew does not make you look like a good guy at all.  Letting your crew take shots off a girls neck.....a girl who is supposed to be your potential wife is ridiculous.

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They need to start focusing on Darius because I think a big part of what made the show was that they made the actual Bachelor an integral part of the show. Here he seems like somewhat of an afterthought, as forgettable as some of those girls.And he had like, zero chemistry with any of the girls tonight.

Also, I can't wait for Adam to come back, I feel like he was the only one that brought out the human part of Rachel on the show.

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Rachel was completely out of her depth as a seductress, ha.  Just some loosened hair won’t counteract sweatpants and a blotchy complexion – she should have gone home for a Quinn-style bandage dress and some Dior foundation. 

The new showrunner could be useful, but the steps they took to get Gary into the game weren’t great.  Chet and Quinn against each other, neither went balls-out enough to justify intervention; nor bland enough to justify horror.  It should’ve been audaciously, appallingly gasp-worthy.  I can understand keeping Constance and Craig as I think they’ve built a really special dynamic here; the storyline is blah.  Maybe they were going for daffy comedy.

I liked Darius last night.  The actor’s periodic change to soft and sweet sincerity was deftly handled; I think there’s hope to redeem him in Adam-style.  I also think we'll have Owner's Daughter for a while, as that's potential power-couple iconography in the show's lexicon.

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37 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Rachel was completely out of her depth as a seductress, ha.  Just some loosened hair won’t counteract sweatpants and a blotchy complexion – she should have gone home for a Quinn-style bandage dress and some Dior foundation. 

The new showrunner could be useful, but the steps they took to get Gary into the game weren’t great.  Chet and Quinn against each other, neither went balls-out enough to justify intervention; nor bland enough to justify horror.  It should’ve been audaciously, appallingly gasp-worthy.  I can understand keeping Constance and Craig as I think they’ve built a really special dynamic here; the storyline is blah.  Maybe they were going for daffy comedy.

I liked Darius last night.  The actor’s periodic change to soft and sweet sincerity was deftly handled; I think there’s hope to redeem him in Adam-style.  I also think we'll have Owner's Daughter for a while, as that's potential power-couple iconography in the show's lexicon.

I'm curious as to whether or not Darius found out about the team owner's daughter and his manager (?)  They never particularly cleared that up, and there was just a look in Darius's eye when he picked Tiffany last.  Like, just something....I'm not sure what, I'm not sure if he is going to plan on humiliating her at some point or if he is going to get both his manger and her back or what......that look he gave her made my spidey senses tingle.

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8 hours ago, RCharter said:

Thats an excellent point.  In what universe does going on a "Bachelor" type show with your entourage seem like a good idea?  People want to think that you are really there to find the one no matter how silly it seems.  The suitor needs to be the guy who is above the fray while the womenfolk fight for his attention.  Bringing your entire crew does not make you look like a good guy at all.  Letting your crew take shots off a girls neck.....a girl who is supposed to be your potential wife is ridiculous.

One of the underlying conceits of The Bachelor is that they are "there for the right reasons." That the people are there actually looking for love. When the audience doesn't perceive that there is sincere intent motivating the participation on the show, the audience starts tuning out or starts complaining about it. Juan Pablo was a deeply unpopular Bachelor because he never seemed especially sincere and refused to say he loved his final choice. Darius allowing his crew to rub up on the women, one of who might be his future wife, demonstrates that he's not there for the right reasons.

Chet is in a cynical state. His marriage has failed. His relationship with Quinn has failed. Quinn has wrested control of the show away from him. Even if wanted to shake up the a little bit, his head space is poisoned. He barely believes in love let alone true love. He's going to permanently damage the show if he keeps interfering. Right now he's trying to turn Everlasting into a little bit of Bachelor in Paradise, Flavor/Rock of Love, and any of those slightly trashier copies of The Bachelor.

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15 hours ago, aradia22 said:

There are too many teams.

IMO, that's intentional. We're seeing the internal chaos of Ever(b)lasting. No one is truly in charge yet—that new EP has his work cut out for him.

I enjoyed Rachel's misdirection that left Chet running to the hot tub to catch some girl-on-girl action, though it's also kind of gross (if inevitable) that he was so gullible to it (the action, not the misdirect). That's a cliché I'm ready to see die.

10 hours ago, voiceover said:

Here's what bugged the most: a show by women, on a network for women, showing that women have little interest in mentoring their own.  

Lifetime's bread and butter for a long time has been the "woman in peril" movie, so I don't expect too much of a progressive attitude from it on anything.

5 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I loved the scene in which Madison tells Rachel that one of the contestants had locked herself in the bathroom only for Rachel to discover that the door was unlocked. That was such a wonderful way to underline how naive and inexperienced Madison is and honestly that could have also happened to me.

Same here! And the look Rachel shot Madison was hilarious.

Edited by dubbel zout
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Jeremy as Mr. Big? No way. I suspect a typo, and the idea is Adam as Mr. Big - THAT would make much more sense.

Adam was the name of the suitor last season, right? I'm terrible with names... I've been read this thread and occasionally wondering who was that Darius that posters were talking about - one of the cameramen, maybe? And each time (at least two, maybe there), I end up having a mental facepalm, once the context makes it crystal clear to me that Darius is the name of the suitor...

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1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

Jeremy as Mr. Big? No way. I suspect a typo, and the idea is Adam as Mr. Big - THAT would make much more sense.

Adam was the name of the suitor last season, right? I'm terrible with names... I've been read this thread and occasionally wondering who was that Darius that posters were talking about - one of the cameramen, maybe? And each time (at least two, maybe there), I end up having a mental facepalm, once the context makes it crystal clear to me that Darius is the name of the suitor...

girl...I have the same problem....I keep forgetting his name and have to refer to him as "the suitor" when I post.

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12 hours ago, RCharter said:

Thats an excellent point.  In what universe does going on a "Bachelor" type show with your entourage seem like a good idea?  People want to think that you are really there to find the one no matter how silly it seems.  The suitor needs to be the guy who is above the fray while the womenfolk fight for his attention.  Bringing your entire crew does not make you look like a good guy at all.  Letting your crew take shots off a girls neck.....a girl who is supposed to be your potential wife is ridiculous.

I wonder if Datius knows what Chet is upto. He probably figures the'll edit that out. 

I also think the issue with the girls this season is that they are objects. Last season we had insight into, and met the girls first, then heard about the roles. The focus was on the people on both sides of the camera. This year, from the beginning, we've heard more about what the contestants are, what is the role they are playing. Only now did we start to meet them. That's why, IMO, they feel more nebulous. I do wonder if that is deliberate (a) to stop another instance of people clamouring for a contestant / suitor from a previous season, like a lot of us are, for Adam and more importantly (b) reflecting Rachel's role more, as she moves from a personal, one-on-one producer with a few girls, to being someone who has to keep herself distanced and keep the whole picture in mind. 

Finally, I also wonder if the slow buildup feels more painful because it's the first time I am watching week-to-week so there is more time to discuss, criticise and pick apart plot points waiting for the next episode to come. Whereas, for me, last season i had all the episodes at once, so if I didn't like one, I could move on to the next one immediately. 

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12 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Can you maybe direct me to that interview? 

I loved the scene in which Madison tells Rachel that one of the contestants had locked herself in the bathroom only for Rachel to discover that the door was unlocked. That was such a wonderful way to underline how naive and inexperienced Madison is and honestly that could have also happened to me. Whenever I'm at work, I'm making the most ridiculous mistakes. Haha.

I saw the interview on Lifetime's website when I was looking for the first episode.

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I still have yet to re watch this episode. Next week should be a return to form. I don't even remember who went home. I wish they gave us more insight into the contestants. I feel like so far I have to wait till the seasons over before I decide if I like this season or not.ast year I did not have to do that. It was love at 1st sight.

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This show's first season garnered enough good will with me that I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but I agree with a lot of you that so far this season seems messy and unfocused. The Chet interference is really bothering me. I feel like we don't need it to make the show exciting and interesting. It's just one plot line too many. I have no problem with Chet still being an annoying and meddling presence in the realm of both Everlasting and Quinn's life, but on this level it's just too much.

I'm also annoyed that Quinn isn't fighting back against Chet harder. I know that he has the ear of the network and that she's somewhat hamstrung by this, but I still feel like she's being too easy on him. It seems the implication is that she's still hung up on him on some level, as evidenced by the look on her face when he said she had no idea what it was to be a "wifey." Maybe I'm bothered because I never quite understood why a woman of her talent and determination would ever go for such a hot mess of a guy. I guess it's supposed to be some sort of proof that she herself is damaged and has self-esteem issues. 

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Darius is still incredibly hard to read as a character - is he a good guy, is he a bad guy, is he something else? I knew early on what Adam was - spoiled gigolo with moral values and a heart- but I don't yet know what his character is going to be.

This is bothering me, too. I really hope he develops as a complex, layered character. What a sad irony it would be if he's just a party-loving NFL idiot with an entourage and nothing more. 

I have a lot of faith in this show and I'll keep watching, but so far it's just not on par with Season 1. Hell, I'll keep watching just for Quinn's character - I think Constance Zimmer is EVERYTHING in this role. But It would be another sad irony if network interference actually winds up damaging the show's quality and diluting its message. 

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13 minutes ago, earlbny said:

I don't even remember who went home.

It was the first elimination, so nobody that was featured for any amount of time.

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5 minutes ago, violetr said:

This is bothering me, too. I really hope he develops as a complex, layered character. What a sad irony it would be if he's just a party-loving NFL idiot with an entourage and nothing more. 

I have a lot of faith in this show and I'll keep watching, but so far it's just not on par with Season 1. Hell, I'll keep watching just for Quinn's character - I think Constance Zimmer is EVERYTHING in this role. But It would be another sad irony if network interference actually winds up damaging the show's quality and diluting its message. 

I think its sort of interesting that we really don't know him....I guess I sort of felt the same way about Adam at first.  Darius shows signs of being a solid...nice guy, and he shows signs of being a total wang.  And I don't yet know his motivation for doing certain things.  Does he know that his manager slept with Tiffany?  If so, is he keeping her around because he is mature enough to realize that it doesn't mean anything, or is he waiting to make a fool of her?  He kept Ruby, is it because he is attracted to her mind and because she challenges him?  Or is it because he realizes it would be a mistake with his teammates and with a lot of people to get rid of a girl who makes a strong political message?  Or is it because he thinks there may be ratings in it?  Ruby clearly seemed surprised that she was staying, so I gather their conversation didn't go well even though it sounds like she challenged him.  Did he really just think Hot Rachel fell in the pool and was quick to rescue her, because thats a nice guy move.  But then he can't remember anyone's name.  

In the first few episodes with Adam I think we saw that one girl (Gina?) giving him fellatio, we saw him basically admit that he was just there to rehab his image, and act very one dimensional.  The first time we saw any spark of anything more than that was when Rachel found him and he insisted he wanted to quit.  But even then it was hard to suss him out for a minute.  Same thing with Darius, we saw the conversation with Rachel that makes me think he is more than just a jerk with an entourage....but he is doing things that make him seem more one dimensional.

I hope, and trust that we will learn more about Darius as time goes on and he makes more decisions that reveal more of who he is.

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

It was the first elimination, so nobody that was featured for any amount of time.

Thanks for the info. I figured that but was not 100% sure. Does that happen on the real show or just Everlasting?

ITA about Darius. However if you read the episode description for 3 & 4 we may learn something about Darious. I posted episode descriptions for episode 3 and 4 in the spoiler thread.

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On 6/14/2016 at 11:40 PM, voiceover said:

Here's what bugged the most: a show by women, on a network for women, showing that women have little interest in mentoring their own.  Nice.

Awful but realistic

 

On 6/14/2016 at 5:50 PM, RCharter said:
On 6/14/2016 at 5:27 PM, voiceover said:

Also: Mr Big: funnier, sexier, and no way would Carrie run off with someone else when HE was available.

He's the Aidan Shaw.

Thats what I'm saying, even at his very, very worst, there was something charming and sexy about Mr. Big......he was rich, cultured, masculine.  Jeremy is mean, whiny, and boring.  There is no charm and at this point, no spark.  This isn't the sort of show that even calls for a Mr. Big.

I don't think Jeremy is a Mr. Big or an Aiden.  Jeremy is like one of those terrible stories about a bridge and tunnel guy Samantha inadvertently has sex with and then he starts to stalk her and she has to pretend to be a lesbian so he will get the hint and leave her alone.

This...totally bridge and tunnel. The part that irks me the most about Jeremy is he is blaming Rachel for something that isn't entirely her fault. Jeremy was in a relationship and made the choice to screw it up with someone that bailed on him before. Jeremy cheated too on that girl he was seeing. He is mad at Rachel and he did the same thing to someone else.

 

On 6/14/2016 at 5:29 PM, ClareWalks said:

Not even Aidan, who was at least a decent guy. Jeremy is fuckin' Berger in this shit. 

Yes post it

 

I liked this episode but I need a showbiz handbook because I am not sure of Chet's role at the show or the network. I thought Chet was Quinn's boss and now this season it seems like he is her equal. I also wasn't sure why Chet was so interested in running Everlasting why not just pitch a new show to Gary that he can run?

Also the scene where Rachel pitched herself to Gary-that is the worst pitch I have ever heard. I can't believe she thought that went well.


 

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On 6/14/2016 at 6:02 PM, earlbny said:

Every time I think this show is completely different I am reminded that's it's on Lifetime. The network stepped in and told Sarah that she had to keep Jeremy around. They wanted him to be UnREAL'S version of "Mr Big". Sarah also had a falling out with Marti Noxon. She left to focus on Girlfriends Guide. 

That would explain some of what I'm feeling about this season... it seems to have lost some of the subtlety that I enjoyed and is coming down on its message like a ton of bricks this season. I feel like Sarah has gotten it into her head that she is creating a "message program" and may have lost sight of the fact that the audience needs a good solid, coherent story, with complex characters they can root for, first and foremost. Messages are ok. Lack of subtlety is not. 

I feel like she's just one script away from throwing real-life politics into the mix, and that would completely wreck the show for me. I want my tv viewing to have an escapist feel. I want some fun, and I don't view politics as fun. We're already dealing with caricatures all over the place, though the actors are trying to infuse some humanity into the football player, the activist, the southerner, and the football princess. But it isn't working that well, because generally speaking, people are not that simple, and the scripts in these first two episodes haven't given them a lot to work with. Where is the complexity we saw in Faith, Anna, Adam and Shamiqua? I fear that the complexity was a product of Marti Noxon's influence, and that it might have gone by the wayside when they had their falling out.

I'm not bailing on the show yet, but these people need to get their compelling mojo back in a hurry. I really want to like this season. 

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Yeah, add me to the list that finds something missing so far this season.  I sort of feel like we have been there/done that with Chet, Rachel and Quinn and their dynamic is not doing it for me.  The only bright spot in this episode was the interaction between Darius and the football owner's daughter (Tiffany, maybe?)  I liked them flirting and talking football and they genuinely seemed to enjoy each other.  Everyone else sort of seems like a walking stereotype, at least at this point because we know nothing else about them.   The show has a very fine line to walk between parodying/critiquing The Bachelor and actually becoming The Bachelor, and I worry that the show is starting to seem more like a parody of a parody.  The women on Everlasting (and the Bachelor) are edited to become stereotypes (slut, good girl, angry black women, etc.), but so far the women seem to already be some of those stereotypes before the Everlasting editors even get to work.  

But its only the second episode, so I am holding onto the hope that things will improve once we get to know more about some of the other characters.

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I'm in the minority, but I liked Jeremy last year and like him better this year.  He is being a dick, but so is almost everyone on this show.  Also, I find it funny when Quinn is mean, but when Rachel is mean, I recoil.  I don't know why I feel this way.

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On June 13, 2016 at 11:18 PM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Of course his idea of what being a man means is to be a misogynistic asshole (oxymoron?). 

Don't know about oxymoron. How about redundant?

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10 hours ago, dmc said:

liked this episode but I need a showbiz handbook because I am not sure of Chet's role at the show or the network. I thought Chet was Quinn's boss and now this season it seems like he is her equal. I also wasn't sure why Chet was so interested in running Everlasting why not just pitch a new show to Gary that he can run?

Also the scene where Rachel pitched herself to Gary-that is the worst pitch I have ever heard. I can't believe she thought that went well.

Quinn is an executive producer of Everlasting and was the show runner, which is the person who has overall creative authority and management responsibility for a television program.

Chet is the creator of the Everlasting and likely an executive producer too, but with no or severely limited creative and management authority.

Rachel was a line producer in season 1. She handled the day to day operations, implemented Quinn's vision, and handled problems before they got up to the Quinn level. Rachel was supposed to be the show runner in season 2. I don't know if she got bumped up to an executive producer.

Jay is either a field producer or an associate producer. On a film, a field producer is literally producing out in the field often away from the main set. However, a lot of reality shows have field producers who are assigned to the different participants. On many of the housewives shows, each wife has their own field producer who is responsible for wrangling their wife and shooting their film whether it's at home, their office, at a fashion show, or lunch.

Brad is the network executive assigned to Everlasting. He watches over the show to make sure it's doing the types of things the network needs it do, like have film in on time, not go over budget, not disparage the network or advertisers, and fit with the image the network wants it to project. It's why when Rachel let him know what was happening on set, that he stepped in and ousted Quinn, Chet, and Rachel as the show runners and put in the new guy. Brad is the guy who controls the money and access to the network. If he felt like this entire season was a bust, he could shut it down and never let the footage see the light of day. For example, the animal injuries and deaths, the low ratings, and negative press caused HBO to cancel Luck. When the show was canceled, they had already shot the first two episodes of season 2. Those episodes have never aired and weren't released with the season 1 DVD.

Gary is the network president.

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13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Rachel was supposed to be the show runner in season 2. I don't know if she got bumped up to an executive producer.

The show runner almost always has an EP credit. I'm pretty sure it's a Writer's Guild requirement, though we don't know if Everlasting is a union show. That might be an interesting C plot, as IRL, reality shows unionizing was in the news a few years ago.

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48 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The show runner almost always has an EP credit. I'm pretty sure it's a Writer's Guild requirement, though we don't know if Everlasting is a union show. That might be an interesting C plot, as IRL, reality shows unionizing was in the news a few years ago.

I love that idea. Wouldn't that be a much better use of Jeremy and Jay than what the show is doing with them now. Especially if Jeremy could help rally the other crew to strike in support of the production, writing, and editing crew. Or maybe he doesn't and we get a C plot about those tensions.

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16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Quinn is an executive producer of Everlasting and was the show runner, which is the person who has overall creative authority and management responsibility for a television program.

Chet is the creator of the Everlasting and likely an executive producer too, but with no or severely limited creative and management authority.

Rachel was a line producer in season 1. She handled the day to day operations, implemented Quinn's vision, and handled problems before they got up to the Quinn level. Rachel was supposed to be the show runner in season 2. I don't know if she got bumped up to an executive producer.

Jay is either a field producer or an associate producer. On a film, a field producer is literally producing out in the field often away from the main set. However, a lot of reality shows have field producers who are assigned to the different participants. On many of the housewives shows, each wife has their own field producer who is responsible for wrangling their wife and shooting their film whether it's at home, their office, at a fashion show, or lunch.

Brad is the network executive assigned to Everlasting. He watches over the show to make sure it's doing the types of things the network needs it do, like have film in on time, not go over budget, not disparage the network or advertisers, and fit with the image the network wants it to project. It's why when Rachel let him know what was happening on set, that he stepped in and ousted Quinn, Chet, and Rachel as the show runners and put in the new guy. Brad is the guy who controls the money and access to the network. If he felt like this entire season was a bust, he could shut it down and never let the footage see the light of day. For example, the animal injuries and deaths, the low ratings, and negative press caused HBO to cancel Luck. When the show was canceled, they had already shot the first two episodes of season 2. Those episodes have never aired and weren't released with the season 1 DVD.

Gary is the network president.

Rachel was the field producer (like Jay) last season, not the line producer! And Rachel was promoted to supervising producer of "Everlasting" this season before she got demoted back to field producer after Coleman was hired by Gary the network president as the new EP of "Everlasting".

Edited by Chris Burgess
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On 6/14/2016 at 6:50 PM, RCharter said:

Thats what I'm saying, even at his very, very worst, there was something charming and sexy about Mr. Big......he was rich, cultured, masculine.  Jeremy is mean, whiny, and boring.  There is no charm and at this point, no spark.  This isn't the sort of show that even calls for a Mr. Big.

I don't think Jeremy is a Mr. Big or an Aiden.  Jeremy is like one of those terrible stories about a bridge and tunnel guy Samantha inadvertently has sex with and then he starts to stalk her and she has to pretend to be a lesbian so he will get the hint and leave her alone.

If ANYONE was going to be Mr. Big it would have been Adam.  Point blank period.  Jeremy isn't even close - I can't STAND him, he's NOT sexy, there is nothing "Big" about him at all!  They should have figured out how to turn Adam into that.

I hope the new guy can be the "Big" guy because Jeremy as Big makes ZERO sense.  Ugh I hate Jeremy.

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On 6/14/2016 at 7:17 PM, aradia22 said:

Long sigh... It wasn't a terrible episode. It just feels early for filler. Like Rachel, I felt like Jay denied me the big fight that last week was building up to so nicely which let a lot of the air out of this episode. It was kind of scattered with too many characters to focus on. I also think the actresses they cast for the contestants at this point seem weaker than the ones we had last season like Faith and Anna so it's harder to jump right into caring about them. I think it was a mistake to throw Chet in and sever the tie between Rachel and Darius. It didn't have to be romantic like with Adam but without that tie, it feels like we're watching too many different shows. There are too many teams. Which reminds me... I know they had to do something to bolster Team Chet to make him a credible threat but I don't like the new guy with his half rimmed glasses. The only thing more obnoxious would be if he had Google Glass. I was prepared for a season of Rachel and Quinn working their magic with a new crop of contestants. That's what I was promised in the season finale. I don't want this nonsense network BS. Stop giving me Smash, UnReal. I want the actual business of putting together a reality show. Why is this always such a problem for TV shows?

I agree with this - I felt like when they threw Chet in there to disrupt everything it took away what I like about the show.  I want to see Rachel with the Bachelor and Bachelorettes manipulating things to death and Quinn in the background screaming at people.  Now we've got this new guy and ... ugh... if it gets Rachel back to producing the girls and the bachelor, then okay... but...

And I think Ruby is the standout contestant so far - she had ridiculous chemistry with Darius at the end and ... wow.  I liked that she just said to heck with it and decided to go out with a bang because she didn't want to just fade away into nothing.  At the same time - I did think Jay's advice was legit because he doesn't want to see her destroyed over this show.  The only issue is that fading away into nothing with no spark wasn't going to help her advance.  He was 100% right that she was there to be the Angry Black Woman - but I totally understand why Ruby had a hard time with that.  She sucked it up and didn't take the bait and then watched Darius treat a racist with kid gloves.  And yes, Confederate Flag girl is an actual racist.  Just because she admires the rich football player doesn't change that.  Remember Mizzou?  Remember how they treated those black football players who went on strike? Same thing here.  So I got why Ruby was pissed at how that turned out - the suit was offensive and he just ignored it and pat her on the head.  I thought the shirt was her version of passive resistance.  She doesn't have to say much, she can let it speak for itself.  And I liked Darius mentioning how his team wouldn't forgive him for sending her home - given how many NFL/NBA players actually wore the exact same shirt.  Plus, as I said - those two have chemistry!

I liked Tiffany - mostly because the actress used to play Hope on The Bold & The Beautiful, lol.  It took me all episode to figure out where I knew her from.  Is anyone going to talk about how basically she went to screw the bachelor's best friend to "rebel" against her father?  I mean - talk about racial layers.  That's textbook.  The ONLY thing she didn't do was turn it around and accuse him of rape after they were caught.  And she and Darius had chemistry too.

Of course Confederate Flag girl has to stick around - they have to pit her against Ruby.

Also - what was with Darius trying to kiss Chantal after two sentences of dialogue?  He didn't try that mess with anyone else?  I couldn't tell if the show was just using that to show that she's "wifey" material (color me pissed that they didn't already consider her that and ONLY seemed to consider the WHITE contestants as wifey material at first) or if it was a set up like last season to make her look like the frigid black girl (Shamiqua's rejection of Adam going too far painted her as "frigid").  But now in S2, suddenly that's okay?  I couldn't even focus to see if they had chemistry because I was so appalled by what he did.

As far as the Chet drama - the sooner we get away from that the better.  

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I’m not really enjoying the show so far this season.  I’m not sure if it is because we are getting too much behind-the-scenes drama and not enough development of the suitor/contestants or just that novelty has worn off.   Whatever the case, I’ll likely continue to watch since there is not much going on for me with TV right now and the fact that I find Shiri fascinating to watch, but it’s definitely not as riveting for me as last season was.   

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Please keep discussion to the episode please - spoilers and discussion of articles have other topics they should be discussed in.

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I'm also annoyed that Quinn isn't fighting back against Chet harder. I know that he has the ear of the network and that she's somewhat hamstrung by this, but I still feel like she's being too easy on him.

Just like Rachel is able to own her power and authority with everyone EXCEPT Quinn, Quinn loses her footing specifically when it comes to Chet. The super ingrained power dynamic between both pairs is one of inequality, and it's hard to shake off so many years of conditioning. 

Quinn's suggestion that Rachel's mom was right was so brutally effective because it reinforced Rachel's feeling of being fundamentally lesser than Quinn, robbing her of the self conviction she needed to effectively wage a fight for control. 

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I agree that the show feels "off" this season. For me, part of the appeal of season one is that it told a good story about a group of really dysfunctional, yet undeniably talented, people managing to achieve their goal. This season (so far) it's dysfunctional people descending into dysfunctional chaos and I don't find that nearly as interesting. I guess new guy will change that.

In addition to other annoyances mentioned previously, there's the fact that Chet's vision for the show makes no sense! Everlasting is apparently a staple of a faux ABC broadcast network watched by millions. Everblasting looks like something that only a couple thousand people would watch on the Playboy Channel.

Despite my misgivings about this season, I still enjoy watching Quinn and Rachel when they are actually working. Rachel being a manipulative bitch and Quinn live editing in the control room.

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I am disappointed, too.  They strayed too far off the format that made season 1 such a huge success.  It has no bones to hold it together at this point, hopefully they will pull it together in a few episodes. 

Sure, it is unreal but there has to be a baseline.  No network would allow 2 producers to create 2 versions of one show at the same time.  This is supposed to be lubricious but it also needs a premise and it lost that. 

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5 hours ago, xaxat said:

I still enjoy watching Quinn and Rachel when they are actually working. Rachel being a manipulative bitch and Quinn live editing in the control room.

That is what I watch for. I wouldn't mind the show getting more into the contestants but it seems to be going in the direction of the Rachel Show. I love watching Rachel do her producing and Quinn watching the live feeds and snarking away. The rest is filler for me.

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On June 16, 2016 at 10:21 PM, HunterHunted said:

Quinn is an executive producer of Everlasting and was the show runner, which is the person who has overall creative authority and management responsibility for a television program.

Chet is the creator of the Everlasting and likely an executive producer too, but with no or severely limited creative and management authority.

Rachel was a line producer in season 1. She handled the day to day operations, implemented Quinn's vision, and handled problems before they got up to the Quinn level. Rachel was supposed to be the show runner in season 2. I don't know if she got bumped up to an executive producer.

Jay is either a field producer or an associate producer. On a film, a field producer is literally producing out in the field often away from the main set. However, a lot of reality shows have field producers who are assigned to the different participants. On many of the housewives shows, each wife has their own field producer who is responsible for wrangling their wife and shooting their film whether it's at home, their office, at a fashion show, or lunch.

Brad is the network executive assigned to Everlasting. He watches over the show to make sure it's doing the types of things the network needs it do, like have film in on time, not go over budget, not disparage the network or advertisers, and fit with the image the network wants it to project. It's why when Rachel let him know what was happening on set, that he stepped in and ousted Quinn, Chet, and Rachel as the show runners and put in the new guy. Brad is the guy who controls the money and access to the network. If he felt like this entire season was a bust, he could shut it down and never let the footage see the light of day. For example, the animal injuries and deaths, the low ratings, and negative press caused HBO to cancel Luck. When the show was canceled, they had already shot the first two episodes of season 2. Those episodes have never aired and weren't released with the season 1 DVD.

Gary is the network president.

Thanks!!!:)

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On 6/21/2016 at 6:37 AM, Mabinogia said:

That is what I watch for. I wouldn't mind the show getting more into the contestants but it seems to be going in the direction of the Rachel Show. I love watching Rachel do her producing and Quinn watching the live feeds and snarking away. The rest is filler for me.

You know, I agree with you, and I'm starting to wonder if that was wrongly interpreted by TPTB as "the audience wants the Rachel show" . Because of the Good wife experience, I'm wary, so:) speaking just for myself, I want Rachel INTERACTING with Quinn, above all, and to a lesser extend Madison and Jay, and producing contestants and suitor now that she's no longer EP or whatnot, because that's what she does best and what I signed up for. She can bang anyone she wants but really? that should be a footnote, not the whole story.

Edited by NutMeg · Reason: I write with no filter - exetend is not extend, for instance - I may have missed others, please have mercy
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Rachel is, for me, the most entertaining when she is doing her job. I don't care if she gets back with Jeremy, doesn't, shags the suitor each season, doesn't, falls for Madison, just don't care about her love life. I also don't really care about her pill pushing mother. I feel like they didn't need to make Rachel have "mental problems" or whatever. Just make her a woman who is really good at being bad and struggles with it.

The control room and the "set" are my favorite scenes. They are what sets this show apart from all the other shows about a "damaged" person who is really good at their job but kind of miserable.

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