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ElectricBoogaloo

S02.E08: Lullaby

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Jones realizes that humanity's true enemy is time-travel itself, and decides to send Railly back to 2020 to undo everything; Cole and Railly discover an anomaly during their quest.

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There's a lot of excitement on Twitter about this episode, with the cast and writers saying it is the best one of the season so far, and there's a LOT of relationship stuff going on. We've been warned to bring hankies (great!)  Sounds like another one to watch live unless you want to be spoilered..

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1 hour ago, sharkunit42 said:

There's a lot of excitement on Twitter about this episode, with the cast and writers saying it is the best one of the season so far, and there's a LOT of relationship stuff going on. We've been warned to bring hankies (great!)  Sounds like another one to watch live unless you want to be spoilered..

Damn, it must be damned near amazing then because every episode this season (so far) has been no slouch by any means, and a few of them were really good. 

Just 53+ hours until the wait is over... a little more for me, but I'm ready.

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2 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Damn, it must be damned near amazing then because every episode this season (so far) has been no slouch by any means, and a few of them were really good. 

Just 53+ hours until the wait is over... a little more for me, but I'm ready.

I know!  I have no idea how each episode keeps getting better and better, but it does. And the ratings are starting to creep up too. I really hope Syfy does the right thing.

A little longer for me as well, but I've no intention of going through all of Tuesday without watching it - I'm going to be getting up before the children at the crack of dawn to watch it! Cannot stand to go all day not knowing and trying to avoid social media. General consensus from those who have seen it is that it is the big emotional one. It's kind of overdue I guess as last week was the first time in a while there had been much of that, yet last season had lots of it.

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Ok...What?

Did anyone here understand why what they ultimately did to break the loop worked? 

I suppose we understand exactly why Cole forgave Ramsey now, he's willing to let the world die to save one person too.

(I hated that speech by the way, Cole was willing to do this mission before he met Cassie. I get that his motivation could evolve but to have him say it outright is odd given that that is the same line-of-thinking that made Ramsey an antagonist before. Not to mention Aaron and, in a way, the Witness. I suppose this gives some credence to the Cole=Witness theory.)

Edited by Jaded Sapphire
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Except for the last few minutes (I cannot express adequately my hate for the whole Ramse/Sam thing), that was an absolutely wonderful episode.  I loved everything about it - the Groundhog day aspect, Jennifer, the way Cole and Cassie related, the younger Kat, the whole Hannah thing.  Also - Xander Berkley!

Speaking of Cole and Cassie - I didn't really know how literally to take what he said to her - I really don't think he would chose a timeline where millions of people die so that she could live, the way Ramse did.  I think he was being more poetic.   Or, if so, at least he feels that way after actually getting to know her, unlike Ramse and his insta-son.

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He really said it.   He went and said "I'm doing all this so you have something to go back to."   Wow.   Just wow.   

And Jennifer -- get back to work.  

I'm sorry what really killed Hannah?

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9 minutes ago, Jaded Sapphire said:

Did anyone here understand why what they ultimately did to break the loop worked? 

 

I have it halfway. The "something but nothing" makes sense, in terms of what they actually do -- save Hannah without Jones knowing so it doesn't change her history.  What isn't clear is why they had to do "something" to break the loop in the first place. I am thinking of it like dreams -- when I was young I had dreams that repeated over and over, and the only way out for me was to engage in lucid dreaming and change something. So I'll handwave that as an arbitrary Time rule.

Also, it's not clear if secretly saving Hannah was the only non-change that was possible. (It was a great solution!) Most actions could have rippled out, so I assume not a lot of actions would be safe. Could they have killed a squirrel? Flatten a truck tire? Or did Time want them to do this exact thing?

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50 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

He really said it.   He went and said "I'm doing all this so you have something to go back to."   Wow.   Just wow.   

And Jennifer -- get back to work.  

I'm sorry what really killed Hannah?

I think Cassie said bacterial meningitis. 

I'm really starting to get tired of Ramse and the insta-son storyline.  Someone needs to change the locks next time he leaves because he keeps fucking shit up.

How/why did Jennifer age so much in four years?  She looks fine in 2016.  Suddenly she has massive grey streaks? 

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What Cole said didn't bother me much. He was never in it because of some righteous desire to save humanity. Before he met Cassie he wanted to stop the plague so his future self and actions would be erased. Now he wants to stop the plague so Cassie has a life to go back to. Ramse, Kat, Aaron, and Cole's motivations have all been selfish in nature; Cole and Katerina's just have the added benefit of saving the world.

Speaking of Katerina, Hannah being alive is an interesting development. I didn't get the whole thing, but yay, maybe. 

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Great episode! I always love a good time loop episode (The X-Files' "Monday" and Star Trek TNG's "Cause and Effect" are two of my favorite episodes in that sub-genre). And I liked that we saw the effects of the time loop on Cassie and Cole. Also nice to see Jennifer again.

Didn't see the reveal about Jones' daughter coming at all, but it pleased me. It was nice to see Jones smiling. I wonder what Hannah learned during her time with The Daughters.

Glad to see Cole finally admit his feelings to Cassie. I get why Cassie didn't reciprocate. I don't think she's in the head space to pursue a relationship with him, but I hope that changes.

Ramse was scary at the end (but hot damn, Kirk Acevedo is a FOX!) I have a feeling the Witness is gonna be harder to kill than Rasputin.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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Damn the feels this episode brought. We're going to pretend all the sniffling I'm doing is due to the cold I'm fighting. Loved the Groundhog Day reference. I know Kat was quoting Hamet, but the Trekkie in me was insisting it was Undiscovered Country. After all, you haven't heard Sharkspeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon.

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So, doesn't Jones sending Railly back to kill her (Jones) rather fit the "kill your grandparent in the past" paradox? If Railly succeeded, who would have sent her back in time in the first place? It didn't spoil my enjoyment of the episode, but it seemed pretty glaring.

If Time is conscious and wants Jones to save the world, then saving Hannah became a necessary element. Jones lost hope, so saving Hannah keeps her motivated. And until they figured out what Time needed in that scenario, they would keep looping. (If primaries can see across time, Time certainly knows what's happening in every timeline. Hannah's survival wasn't necessary until it was).

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I was wondering if this show would ever attempt a time loop/Groundhog Day scenario with all the time-traveling, so I guess this was it!  Understandably, it was darker and serious, but I did find some dark humor in it, like how Cassie and Cole kept getting sicker and sicker each time, Jennifer's reactions to each time they came back, and Cole getting them all executed a few times, in order to restart the loop.

I honestly didn't see the twist of them saving Hannah coming until near the end.  I wonder if we will see more of her, since they got an actress who I've seen in a few things to play her (Brooke Williams, who I know from things like Legend of the Seeker, Spartacus, and most recently, The Shannara Chronicles.)  But I loved the reveal and Jones reaction.  Barbara Sukowa was killer in that moment.

Fun seeing Xander Berkley's character again.  Also got a kick out of the woman sergeant, who was played by Tiffany Shepis, who I've seen in almost every bad D-horror movie, that I have ever seen.

A lot of great Cole/Cassie moments.   A bit annoying that they are doing the whole "We can't be together because reasons!" thing, and Cole basically saying he is doing this now for Cassie, is skirting close into sappy territory, but I'm down with it for now.  Mainly because Aaron Stanford and Amanda Schull are just so great together.

So, now Cassie and Ramse are going to form a temporary alliance and try and hunt down The Witness?  It sounds like they aren't telling Cole or anyone else about it, so I can only imagine the chaos this will cause.  Curious to see more of these two, since they really don't seem to like each other very much: even before the whole Sam thing.

The previews for next week were very entertaining.

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I'm telling you all, this whole Time+Jones+The Witness+time loops+paradoxes+Primaries+etc has a very Time Lord-ian feel to it... all that's missing is sending Cole/Cassie/Ramse time traveling through a conduit that resembles a tall blue box.   (these numerous comparisons are nice and takes some of the edge off, seeing as how we won't get any new Dr Who until next year sometime [aside from the annual Xmas special]).

So, am I 'reading' this right, at least as perceived by Cole & Cassie?  That Time can protect itself, thus preventing the loss of a key figure like Jones - and that time travel MUST happen??  That's interesting, and a bit crazy to think about.  And this will either end up a fantastic addition to the story line, or a disastrous plot hole.  *here's to really hoping for the former!*

I can't help but wonder if Katarina re-acquiring her once-thought-dead daughter won't end up in tragedy yet?  Seems too easy and happy-go-lucky that a mission formed because of suicidal thoughts turns into regaining the 1.B reason for trying to stop the plague in the first place.  I see severe heartbreak (again) for Jones in the quite near future - probably before the end of this season.

I don't think Cole was saying that his whole reason for keeping on the mission was because of his love for Cassie (similar to what Aaron was saying and believed at rear end of S1), I think it was about what he said at the end; "I do this so you'll have something to go back to after it's all over";  IE, he's doing it for her (future/past whatever), not because of his love for her.  I think he still believes he won't survive whatever the end is, either in success or failure.  And I can believe Cassie's reaction when Cole 'made a move', she sees tragedy for one, or both, of them and doesn't want to endure the heartache - or have Cole go through it. 

But that said, Cassie, dear, you're not supposed to cock-block yourself.  Friends With Benefits, girl.  (so glad they didn't go there with you & Deacon, however).

The doors in that place must not come with locks included in the standard package. 

Ramse is a fool, but not stupid enough to kill 'Cole's girl' and one of Jones' time-hopping heroes.

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I liked this ep a lot up (Groundhog's Day is one of my favorite movies) until the presenting to Jones her saved daughter. It was quite an emotional scene & I even cried just as hard during my 2nd viewing of this ep, but I kind of didn't like the idea of it. Don't know why. What will the new found daughter add to the mix, if anything?

I also didn't like Cassie & Ramse getting together to find the Witness in "Titan" and then killing him. I think maybe it's just the "Titan" part I didn't like. I've never been a fan of the red forest scenes.

Surprisingly (to me) I enjoyed all of the Jennifer scenes. I really didn't like her last season although she could be very funny. I mostly found her annoying, but this season I'm loving every scene she's in.

Could Titan be where Ramse's son is also?

I know many of us prefer season 1 to season 2 (so far), but I've really been digging it for the most part.

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Hee, I love Groundhog Day too so this episode was fun to watch. I was halfway expecting Ned Ryerson to show up! I loved Jennifer this week. From her initial, "OMG, you guys!" and hugging Cassie to her cheerful "See you soon" remarks every time she knew the loop was about to reset itself, she was great. She was the perfect amount of comic relief plus some much needed ass kicking for Cole. She couldn't tell him exactly what to do but she was able to push him in the right direction.

Cole told Cassie, "I'm doing all this so you have something to go back to." My interpretation is that he wants to stop the Witness from destroying time, stop the plague from happening, and then send Cassie back to her own time to live the rest of her life. I don't think he has any intention of going back to her time permanently so he knows that if he completes his mission, he will not get to be with her. He just wants to create a normal world for her to go back to. And that's why he wants to be with her now, while they are still in the same time period. Like he said, he'd rather have a little bit of happiness while he can even though he knows that it will end.

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Did anyone here understand why what they ultimately did to break the loop worked?

 
I have it halfway. The "something but nothing" makes sense, in terms of what they actually do -- save Hannah without Jones knowing so it doesn't change her history.  What isn't clear is why they had to do "something" to break the loop in the first place.
 


They had to do something to break the loop because time was not so subtly telling Cassie that it wasn't going to allow her to complete her mission of killing Jones or allow her decision to save Hannah to stand. Cassie was pretty hellbent on both of those things since she kept going back and killing Jones. Time needed them to do two things: ensure that Jones still had the motivation to create time travel and still have hope in 2044. Not killing Jones wasn't enough (as shown by the day that Cassie and Cole did nothing and the day reset itself anyway). That was only half of what time wanted from them. But if they had simply not killed Jones and gone back to 2044, then Jones still had no more hope (as Jennifer pointed out to Cole) and no motivation to continue with the mission. Giving Hannah back to Jones gave her hope again and a reason to keep fighting the Witness and the Army of the 12 Monkeys.

I do wonder how the relationship between Jones and Hannah will evolve. I can't imagine that Hannah is going to want to move into the compound. I'm guessing she will want to get to know her mother, but that it may be difficult for both of them because they are strangers to each other. Heh, maybe we can have weekly (non-red) tea time with Jennifer, Hannah, and Jones.

I, too, am tired of Ramse making everything about a kid he didn't even know about until recently (I have no idea how to keep track of how much time has passed in 2044 but Ramse was willing to burn the world down the second he found out that Sam existed).

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I'm sorry what really killed Hannah?


She had bacterial meningitis and Foster decided that the normal people weren't important enough to waste resources on so they weren't being treated.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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7 hours ago, snarktini said:

I have it halfway. The "something but nothing" makes sense, in terms of what they actually do -- save Hannah without Jones knowing so it doesn't change her history.  What isn't clear is why they had to do "something" to break the loop in the first place. I am thinking of it like dreams -- when I was young I had dreams that repeated over and over, and the only way out for me was to engage in lucid dreaming and change something. So I'll handwave that as an arbitrary Time rule.

Also, it's not clear if secretly saving Hannah was the only non-change that was possible. (It was a great solution!) Most actions could have rippled out, so I assume not a lot of actions would be safe. Could they have killed a squirrel? Flatten a truck tire? Or did Time want them to do this exact thing?

I thought time needed Jones to regain "hope". She had lost all hope that what she was doing was helping save the world. So time wouldn't let Cassie or Cole kill or change Jones' timeline but would allow them to give her happiness that would renew her hope and "fix" time by stopping the 12 monkeys. 

Edited by caws 727 · Reason: Or what ElectricBoogaloo said. Serves me right for not refreshing page before commenting.
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Earlier this season, Cole said, "I was sent back in time to kill a man. It was supposed to fix everything. It didn't. So I killed more people. Nothing changed. And then I saved someone, someone who should have died. And that, that is what changed things. It's the only thing that's ever made any difference."

In this episode, killing Jones was supposed to fix everything but it didn't, no matter how many times Cassie killed her. Things only changed when Cole suggested that they save someone again. Saving someone is what got them out of the time loop and what gave Jones hope again, so it seems like Cole saving people is what changes things, a tactic that Cassie is less reluctant to use (which is ironic considering that in S1 when Cole told her that they couldn't save everyone, she said, "I thought that was the point.").

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I was just coming here to post that, ElectricBoogaloo!  As soon as Cole and Cassie revealed what they did, I flashed back to Cole talking about saving Jennifer instead of killing her.  For a show (and a big, complicated time-travel plan) founded on some really dark premises, I like that Cole is discovering these points of light.  The characters like to latch onto these hard decisions, sacrifices, and ruthless actions as "the only way," but this season, Time keeps showing them a different path.

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ITA - and I love seeing the characters change and grow. Aside from the obvious Cassie/Cole role reversal where she is now the ruthless killer and he is the one trying not to kill unnecessarily, there are so many parallels and changing points of views from the characters.

At the beginning of S1, Cole said, "One for seven billion? That math works for me." Later Ramse took the same attitude but instead of killing one person to save seven billion, Ramse was willing to let seven billion people die to save one person, Sam. By the end of S1, Cole and Ramse had this conversation:

Cole: Is that what you've become? Someone who would kill seven billion to save one?


Ramse: You'd do the same thing.
Cole: No, I wouldn't.

But in this episode, he told Cassie that if he could go back, he wouldn't have gotten in her car in 2013 and he would abandon the mission so that she could live her life for a few more years without all the craziness that she's been through since he first met her. It's not quite the same as Ramse's choice but his attitude has definitely changed.

Cole ended up being more like Aaron than he thought. From S1:

Cassie: Helping to destroy the world to save just one person?


Aaron: One person that you love. In the end, isn't that all that matters?
Cassie: No.

And now Cole is trying to save the world for Cassie. Again, saving the world is different than destroying it, but his motivation is now the same as Aaron's was. I think he now understands Jones more than he used to for the same reason.

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I, too, am kind of fascinated by the continued theme of saving people instead of killing them to save the world. And it makes me wonder how Cassie and Ramse's "kill the Witness" plan will work out.

I also liked the reveal that Cole had a kind of faith that had given him hope in the past. And that it worked to give him hope here, as well.

Cassie, if you want Cole to stop blaming himself for you, maybe stop acting like you're blaming him yourself. Just a thought.

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14 hours ago, Richness said:

Damn the feels this episode brought. We're going to pretend all the sniffling I'm doing is due to the cold I'm fighting. Loved the Groundhog Day reference. I know Kat was quoting Hamet, but the Trekkie in me was insisting it was Undiscovered Country. After all, you haven't heard Sharkspeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon.

I am so glad I am not the only one that deliberately thought she was quoting ST VI instead.  Ahh.. Christopher Plummer :D

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Damn, I got here too late - you've all made the points I was going to!

A very enjoyable episode, it was nice to see some actual communicating going on for once, instead of what we had earlier in the season. That said, it's clear the nihilism is a long way from dead with the encounter with Ramsé and the wrong end of his gun.

It was also nice for the team to score a "win" after so many weeks of failures and fire-fighting. This was a mission that only had a positive outcome.

My money is currently on Sam as the Witness as that would be the most heartbreaking thing for Ramsé to discover. It has to be somebody he cares about as he's been on such a crusade.

Ratings have just come out - looks to be the same as last week more or less. So it's not dropping any more, but whether it's enough for Syfy to renew, well, yeah.  Another record live tweet session though, I think it trended at #4 or #5 at one point and considerably more tweets than last week, which again was considerably more than the week before.

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Everytime I think the show cant pull the bar higher, they go beyond...

What an episode ! 

Looking forward to that "Hyena" event Jen (O, Jen, how awesome you are !) mentionned... hehe, I guess we'll know next week ! Go Team Hyena ! 

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 I could swear I've seen adult Hanna before - or at least an actress in that very same get-up infiltrating the facility. Maybe it was in a preview but I don't think so - I actually checked the season 2 trailer on youtube and she isn't featured there. If feels like it was during last season and I have some hazy memories of wondering what the hell a female ninja is doing there. Man, this show wrecks havoc on my poor brain - maybe I'm a primary too and remember stuff that hasn't happened yet? *cough* Anyhow, great episode and I say that as someone who normally hates 'Groundhog Day'-episodes.

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14 hours ago, caws 727 said:

I thought time needed Jones to regain "hope". She had lost all hope that what she was doing was helping save the world. So time wouldn't let Cassie or Cole kill or change Jones' timeline but would allow them to give her happiness that would renew her hope and "fix" time by stopping the 12 monkeys. 

I'm not convinced time was changed at all. Granted they showed stuff out of sequence, but they didn't do the shakey-cam thing they do like when a change to the timeline has occurred. I think time wouldn't let them move on because they already saved Hannah. The future unfolded the way it did contingent upon them traveling back to 2020 to do that, and each time they didn't do that, the-would-be paradox forced them to loop back to the splinter. It's like an anti-paradox; whereas they can't change things in the past without changing the future, this is a time they had to do something in the past in order to make the future play out as it ought to.

Of course if they drop Hannah from here on out and her only real presence on the show was to cure Jones of her depression, then maybe I'm completely wrong about that. But I suspect that she'll play an important role in the series from here on out, unless they kill her off again.

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Well, I'm not time-hallucinating (just talking to myself). There was a Daughter-Ninja infiltrating the base in Primary in order to abduct Jones who the Daughters then forced to return Cole to 2044. It was a different actress (Ayisha Issa who probably did all fight-scenes since she has several titles in martial arts) but I assume that's supposed to be the same character as there's only one Ninja among the Daughters - all the others prefer a more Thunderdome Mad Max styling (except Jennifer of course who seems to take her  styling inspiration from Helena Bonham Carter).

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Dammit, Cassie. You clearly wanna kiss the man, so do it already. Poor Cole. Honestly, he'd probably settle for just a nice long hug. Hell, I'd settle for them hugging. I know it's only season 2, but we don't know how long this series will last. At least if they're together before this season's inevitable cliffhanger and the show is cancelled, I can lie to myself: "Obviously, they all lived happily ever after."

It was so so good to see Cassie go back to her medical roots, noticing the discrepancies with Hanna's illness and then saving her. She seemed vitalized by it as well, so I think I was hoping for a slightly more uplifting moment between her and Cole. Them holding hands during the execution got me a little verklempt, though.

Also, I feel that if your job results in repetitive blood loss and vomiting, your employer owes you a splinter to the Bahamas for a long weekend.

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:19 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I honestly didn't see the twist of them saving Hannah coming until near the end.  I wonder if we will see more of her, since they got an actress who I've seen in a few things to play her (Brooke Williams, who I know from things like Legend of the Seeker, Spartacus, and most recently, The Shannara Chronicles.)  

Thank you!! I knew I recognized her, but I couldn't remember where.

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4 hours ago, coppersin said:

Also, I feel that if your job results in repetitive blood loss and vomiting, your employer owes you a splinter to the Bahamas for a long weekend.

I'm pretty sure Cole (& Cassie) would settle for the [Florida] Keys.

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22 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, I'm not time-hallucinating (just talking to myself). There was a Daughter-Ninja infiltrating the base in Primary in order to abduct Jones who the Daughters then forced to return Cole to 2044. It was a different actress (Ayisha Issa who probably did all fight-scenes since she has several titles in martial arts) but I assume that's supposed to be the same character as there's only one Ninja among the Daughters - all the others prefer a more Thunderdome Mad Max styling (except Jennifer of course who seems to take her  styling inspiration from Helena Bonham Carter).

Ha, now whenever we see the Daughters, I am going to address them/salute them/count them off thusly in my head: Mad Max girls, Ninja, Helena Bonham carter/Bellatrix Lestrange.

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Now that I've finally dealt with the Ninja mystery I remembered something else about this episode that was quite impressive. The subtle mirroring between Cole's tale and the main plot. In both cases two explanations for what had been happening were presented: Cole and Ramse were either incredibly lucky that those rounds were just blinds or God/the Universe was indeed looking out for them / Time needed Jones alive and hopeful and therefore put Cole and Cassie in a loop until they figured it out or it was just a kaputt tether acting up.

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So while the show started off as stop the plague/change the past to change the future, its now morphed into save time.  And I wonder that in defeating the witness (not necessarily killing the witness), that ends up stopping the plague as well (since the plague only came about because the 12 monkey army wanted it to, because the witness was telling them they had to do it - and that's because the witness became the witness because of the plague). 

If Sam ends up being the witness, which is very possible, I again predict that the solution is not in killing the witness, but in saving the witness.  That's been the theme this season, that the solution is not killing people, but saving them.  How that's going to happen will be interesting to see.  And I still want to know if Cole's saving that murder victim from the 1970s episode is going to end up helping in some way.  

Very emotional episode, I needed a few tissues.  Considering how each time-loop reset seemed to affect Cassie and Cole worse and worse, I'm almost surprised they were able to go through many many resets to get the timing right.  And yes, Jennifer was a hoot each time.  I didn't think she looked all that much "older", but she looked significantly dirtier, which I think made her look older.

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One of the things that struck me on rewatch was how Cole's role has changed since the beginning of the show. Initially, he was simply one of the experiments - one Jones knew would be successful given that she'd met him earlier, but still just a soldier in her war. More and more, this season especially, it's clear that Cole is now basically the leader of the group. Yes, Jones is still the brains behind the machine, etc., but Cole is the heart of the war that's being waged. Jones and the other scientist listen to him, defer to him. Deacon came to get Cole to deal with Jones and to go get Cassie. He's the puzzle-maker.

I just checked out last season from the library because I want to check myself on this, but my memory is that Cole was basically feral when this whole thing started. He had no hope - it turns out he'd lost it, but at the time it seemed like he'd never really had any - and was willing to do anything, kill anyone to complete the mission. He's softer, has hope. I wonder now if he'd still leave Aaron to die like he did last year.  

On the lack of shimmery, shakiness when the timeline changed, maybe saving Hannah didn't change the lives of Cole, Cassie, Jones and their surroundings because they never interacted with the Hannah who survived? Maybe saving the girl in the earlier episode will have an impact on Cole and Ramse so they felt it even if they and we don't know it right now? I don't know. 

Also, I love how when Cole shoots Jones he closes his eyes, then looks away. Kind of sweet that he couldn't bear to watch.

Edited by bethy
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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Inside the episode:

 

I really enjoy watching these, so thanks for linking them. There's a brief moment in this one where Emily Hampshire all of a sudden sounds like Jennifer Goines when she imagines being time - that's exactly how enthusiastic Jennifer would react to the idea, he!

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Still not feeling the season at all. Also, hated they brought Hanna back, that drive to change the world is such a major part of Jones' character, I don't want to lose it. And I don't want to watch her with her daughter at all.

The loop stuff was paper-thin and made no sense. When the story boils down to "Time/God/whatever wants something to happen JUST BECAUSE", you know the writers have given up.

Cassie/Cole is the only reason for me to watch now. Their scenes were OK, but not as good as I would have expected in s1.

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12 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Still not feeling the season at all. Also, hated they brought Hanna back, that drive to change the world is such a major part of Jones' character, I don't want to lose it. And I don't want to watch her with her daughter at all.

The loop stuff was paper-thin and made no sense. When the story boils down to "Time/God/whatever wants something to happen JUST BECAUSE", you know the writers have given up.

Cassie/Cole is the only reason for me to watch now. Their scenes were OK, but not as good as I would have expected in s1.

I'd say give this episode a second look. I did and my SO noticed what justmehere noticed about the grandfather paradox with the addendum that they simply anthropomorphized the concept afterward. The writers kind of made that clear with the two possible explanations for the Cole shooting and the looping itself.

Edited by Jaded Sapphire
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I'm doing this rewatch of season one and wow. I just gotta say, there are a lot of little clues along the way. For instance, in Atari (ep. 4), where Cole accidentally gets sent back two days, instead of back to Cassie in 2015, he's able to save Ramse and Jones "because the machine is damaged." Even before Cole tells Ramse, "Maybe things happen the way they happen for a reason," I was thinking, "Huh. Here's Time intervening already."

When Deacon is torturing Cole for information about the facility, he puts "a little something we picked up from the Daughters" in the wound and Cole saw flashes of the red forest, heard the Witness.

Plus, Jennifer talks about primary colors and primary numbers the first episode she's in. And we didn't learn she's Primary, herself until this season, right?

Other people may have noticed all this long ago, but it's kind of blowing me away, how consistent even the beginning of season one is with what we've seen of season two.

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This episode didn't have as much humor as others (the Jennifer lines were too heavy with clues for me to relax into their humor), but when Cole wrapped up his story of him and Ramse miraculously not being hit by showers of rounds, only to reveal that they later learned they were blanks, I did have a broad smile.

On June 6, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Great episode! I always love a good time loop episode (The X-Files' "Monday" and Star Trek TNG's "Cause and Effect" are two of my favorite episodes in that sub-genre)....

Stargate SG1's "Window of Oppportunity" is a hoot with a dramatic climax, and definitely one of my top three favorite episodes of the 10-season series.

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When Jennifer told Cole, "What needs to be done to save the world is to believe you can," it reminded me of Harry Potter not being able to produce a fullpatronus until after he went back in time and realized that he was the one who saved himself with his patronus. Believing in yourself sounds like such a simple concept but sometimes it's what you need to push through. 

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