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On ‎2018‎-‎06‎-‎22 at 11:14 PM, Camera One said:

A 2-hour adventure to save Rufus and get Lucy's sister back would be a fun way to put a bow on the series if it must end.

Agreed, and I think that's the most everybody wants out of it. I'd like to know exactly what the Rittenhouse agenda is because I felt it's not even been hinted at, but ultimately , I want to know the fates of the main characters which always drove the show.

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9 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Agreed, and I think that's the most everybody wants out of it. I'd like to know exactly what the Rittenhouse agenda is because I felt it's not even been hinted at, but ultimately , I want to know the fates of the main characters which always drove the show.

I firmly believe the writers had no idea where to go with RIttenhouse. They basically planned to destroy their own history to gain supremacy in a way most of them would never become aware of. The only way I think you could play it is to make them like Vandal Savage in Legends of Tomorrow, an evil character who exists to prevent an even worse future.

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Rittenhouse strove to limit the progress of humankind overall in order to keep their privileged positions.  I can think of some current politicians who would fit right in.

I want to know that they save Rufus.  Everything else is optional, although I would like Jessica to be redeemed.

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I have to wonder how they would have dealt with Annie Wersching's real-life pregnancy, since if the show had been renewed, production would have started sometime during her last trimester.  I suppose they could always have had Emma find out that she was pregnant with Nicholas's child (since it was implied that they had slept together at least once).

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8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I have to wonder how they would have dealt with Annie Wersching's real-life pregnancy, since if the show had been renewed, production would have started sometime during her last trimester.  I suppose they could always have had Emma find out that she was pregnant with Nicholas's child (since it was implied that they had slept together at least once).

Maybe she stayed behind on a mission, then when they return, hey, she's pregnant

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‘TIMELESS’ FANS PLAN BIG SDCC GESTURE
Posted on July 10, 2018 By Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://fangirlish.com/timeless-fans-plan-big-sdcc-gesture/

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Timeless seems like the little show that could. Cancelled? Wait …not, it’s back. Cancelled again? Well, fans are certainly not giving up on the possibility of getting some sort of closure for their favorite show.

And they’re taking to the skies in San Diego to prove it.

You all probably know that next week is San Diego Comic Con, the biggest multi-genre entertainment and comic convention of them all. The streets will be filled with celebrities and studio executives, and fans are hoping the big gesture will get someone to think twice about this gem of a show that has been, somehow, overlooked once and time again.

Or, if not, they are hoping that, at least, the writers and cast members will get the message that the show changed many, many lives, and so may people are better because of it.

*  *  *
So, if you look at the sky during Comic Con (I will certainly be looking) and see a helicopter (or, per Malcolm Barrett, heli-clockter) with a big Timeless, sign, stop for a moment, take a picture or twenty five, share it on social media and if you can, join us in asking for more of this show.

Edited by tv echo
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Actually, it's TWO helicopters, or as the Clockblockers call them, "heliclockters."  And what's floored everyone in the cast and crew is that this is something that the show's fans insisted on crowdfunding themselves as a way of showing that they'll NEVER give up trying to get this show renewed, or at least wrapped up in a final movie.  I swear, I've never in my entire life seen such a devoted, passionate, hard-working fanbase that just refuses to quit!

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2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I've never in my entire life seen such a devoted, passionate, hard-working fanbase that just refuses to quit!

Obviously I have no proof, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them were Jericho fans. This is awesome and amazing!

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‘Timeless’ Is Dominating Comic-Con (And It’s Not Even There)
By Alex Zalben  Jul 20, 2018 at 10:53am
https://decider.com/2018/07/20/timeless-comic-con-savetimeless-campaign-twitter/

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According to Twitter trends around the annual pop culture convention shared with Decider, Timeless — and the #SaveTimeless hashtag in particular — is dominating the conversation. Of 820,000 tweets sent leading up to Comic-Con on Wednesday, Timeless was number one on TV trends, followed by Supernatural, The Walking Dead, Doctor Who, and Riverdale. On the movie end of things, the top Twitter trends were Deadpool, Thor, Aquaman, Avengers and Star Wars.
*  *  *
Even with the mild tweetstorm throwing cold water on the enterprise, fan enthusiasm for the show hasn’t tamped down. The tweets have been non-stop leading into Comic-Con, and the Clockblockers (the name the fanbase has taken for itself) haven’t stopped there. Using a GoFundMe, they raised $23,000 in order to rent two helicopters to fly over Comic-Con with a banner reading, “You guys want to get Rufus back, or what? #SaveTimeless.” The first helicopter will fly over San Diego from 12-3pm PST on July 21, while the second helicopter will livestream the first helicopter to the fan Facebook page. Any funds leftover from the helicopter stunt will be donated to a charity TBD. It is unknown at this time whether a third helicopter will be live-tweeting the event.

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5 minutes ago, giovannif7 said:

Guess who's getting a 2-episode wrap-up!

Yep. This is the best news in a long time! Two hr finale wrap-up is better than none.

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This must be what Goran V. hinted at on his tweet last week.

Speculation as to what will happen?

I'm sure Rufus will be saved.  Beyond that, I think either Jessica will be redeemed (but I don't think there's enough time for that) so that Wyatt can be with her, or Lorena and Iris will return for Flynn.  Maybe Amy will be saved for Lucy but it won't be so necessary since she'll end up with one of the guys.

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Yes, this is awesome. I can't wait. Please do this right and give a real and fitting ending. The article said we could maybe this around November or December.

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I'll be darned, they actually did it. I would never have believed it, especially at this point. I guess that Comic-Con thing really did the trick. 

I don't have much hope they'll be able to resolve the whole Rittenhouse thing because that never really made a lick of sense. Best case scenario, they will give us some closure with the main characters. I definitely think Lucy should get her sister back and wind up with Wyatt, which means they will have to deal with Jessica somehow. I think the most likely path to that would be a timeline change that essentially reverses whatever brought her back to life in the first place. Or at the very least, a realization on Wyatt's part that she's not his Jessica, since she's from a different timeline. 

I definitely want them to address how future Lucy manages to overcome the rules of time travel and visit her former self and how she got the diary to Flynn. And of course, Rufus will be saved and wind up with Jiya, I think that's kind of a given.

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Dang, so I guess the 2 hour finale is the hot new thing for shows that are unjustly cancelled, huh? I would prefer another season, but thats still great news! Now go save Rufus!

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I'm really curious as to how they're going to handle Annie Wersching's real-life pregnancy.  Since the movie is due to come out in December, she'll be in roughly her last trimester during production, if I'm not mistaken (she announced her pregnancy the day of the Saturn Awards, and when she attended the ceremony that night, she was already showing off her baby bump in pictures).  So she's now about four months along, and by the time filming starts, she'll probably be in about her sixth or seventh month, with a due date sometime in December itself.  That's going to make any epic fight scenes just a tad difficult.

Edited by legaleagle53

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It could be written in to the story.

I don't really care what the plot is, just do a good wrap.  Show came back from the dead twice, so that Lifeboat is sure doing something.

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YES!

I read the news on AV Club, and I was like "if this is an onion article and i am being trolled I am going to be so---OHMYGODITSREAL!!!"

My predictions:
In order for things to go right, it is realized that Jessica must go missing. Wyatt takes her to 202X (Her body was never found, right?). Jiya probably figures this out by playing through a bunch of scenarios with her time vision. I'm picturing it like the episode If-Then-Else of Person of Interest, but more compact.

If they want to go a bit sad: Lucy must stay in the past in order for Rittenhouse to not be formed/for Rittenhouse to be destroyed.

If they want happy: The final scene of the series is Rufus, Flynn, Wyatt, Jiya, Agent Christopher, Lucy, and Mason celebrating the holidays at someone's house - probably Lucy, since then they don't need Denise's or Rufus's families, Wyatt lives in a motel (I think?), Jiya probably doesn't have the room, and Mason has nothing. All of a sudden there's a knock at the door. Wyatt says "I'll get it!" (As he and Lucy are now A Thing(tm) and got back together, probably by the halfway point of the episode) and he opens it to a woman, saying "Oh, I forgot my keys, thanks for opening the door, Wyatt." It's Amy. Lucy hears the voice, runs to the door, hugs her sister, they all go into the same room, are celebrating, laughing, talking, maybe eating some Chocodiles, and other such general revelry. Camera zooms out. Screen says "Thanks ClockBlockers! You are the real Time Team!" or some other message that sounds like it belongs at the end of the credits of a 90s 8 or 16 bit video game. 

Future Wyatt/Lucy will have to sacrifice themselves in order to save the timeline. The upgraded lifeboat will be destroyed after they save Rufus (Maybe it is held together with tin cans, string, and bubble gum). They end up unable to destroy the mothership because of paradoxes, so they put a brick on the gas pedal and send it into a volcano. Lifeboat is kept in the bunker with the time stuff removed.

Then the Time Team become successful authors, known for writing historical fiction, which just describe our history.

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15 hours ago, bros402 said:

In order for things to go right, it is realized that Jessica must go missing. Wyatt takes her to 202X (Her body was never found, right?). Jiya probably figures this out by playing through a bunch of scenarios with her time vision. I'm picturing it like the episode If-Then-Else of Person of Interest, but more compact.

Would Wyatt be willing to lose his unborn child?

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USA Today's interview with EP Shawn Ryan...

'Timeless' fans: Your finale movie is coming
Gary Levin   July 31, 2018
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/07/31/timeless-nbc-fans-earn-another-reprieve-finale-movie/869533002/

Quote

A campaign by the loyal (and vocal) fan community behind NBC's time-travel series "Timeless" has paid off:  The network has agreed to air a two-hour movie that will wrap up the series in December, with all seven regular cast members.

The turn of events follows two consecutive berths atop USA TODAY's Save Our Shows poll, which helped earn the series a second-season renewal in 2017.  NBC declined to commit to a third season, and the actors' contracts expired on July 1. But support from the show's "Clockblocker" fans, including a helicopter flown over Comic-Con in San Diego this month, swayed the network, says executive producer Shawn Ryan. 

"I know for a fact that the passion of the fans had an impact on NBC and (producing studio) Sony, without a doubt," he says in an exclusive interview. "All the helicopter signage stuff at Comic-Con was very much on their radar. Trending on Twitter, months after the cancellation, was super-impressive.  It’s such a passionate fan base."

And "ultimately NBC, which has always been good to the show, heard the fans' voices and didn’t want to be the bad guys in this. They want the fans to get a proper ending and leave on a high note." Especially after Season 2's cliffhanger ending. 

Ryan says the path to closure was rocky. "Obviously, we were disappointed when the show wasn’t picked up. And then there were simultaneous conversations happening with NBC about a two-hour movie, and with other places about could there be a Season 3 somewhere else. (Netflix, among others, passed). Ultimately, we never could secure something before the actors' contracts expired. It was kind of looking a little pessimistic about a movie," as it was difficult to find a path for both Sony and NBC to make a profit (they probably won't). "But in the last two to three weeks, it all came together," Ryan says.
*  *  *
"Everyone really thought the best of the show, and wanted the fans to have a good feeling on the way out.  All the actors were more than willing to do it. Now we’re ready to go."

The plan is to start filming the finale in mid-October in Los Angeles. It is scheduled to air sometime around Christmas. "I know some fans might be like, 'Well, why not a Season 3?'" Ryan says. But "we’re doing a lot more than most shows in our situation," he says of the low-rated series.  "I feel bad for a lot of fan bases in the future because I’m not sure people realize how unusual this is. (Netflix canceled "Sense8" after two seasons but later agreed to end the series with its own two-hour movie after a similar fan outcry.)

The series stars Abigail Spencer, Malcolm Barrett and Matt Lanter as a trio that travels in time to prevent a mysterious organization from changing the course of history.  And with the latest reprieve, Ryan's goal is to "make the fans go, 'Wow,'" and "give it a proper ending. If it’s a 28-episode novel, we need to write the last two chapters and make the viewers feel really satisfied."

And maybe, just maybe, if enough new fans catch up on Hulu, he says, Sony can "re-examine" the series and try to sell it again.  Just not to NBC.
*  *  *
Ryan also gave a shout-out to Save Our Shows. "We wouldn’t be talking today if not for USA TODAY and the Save Our Shows poll that’s really given a voice to our fans," he says.  "It really started with that poll a little over a year ago that helped convinced NBC to give us a second season, and winning it again did make a mark and was certainly noticed by the powers that be. And it gave us some ammunition why it was so important for this particular fan base, to try to give them something that would result in a satisfying conclusion."

Edited by tv echo
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Man, I had all but given up on this show - as far as expecting anything new - and then learned elsewhere that something was up.  Came here to check, and found out about the 'movie finale' news.

My reaction?
tenor.gif?itemid=8390765

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This news is awesome.  I wish networks did more things like this when shows are unceremoniously cancelled, but as the EP said, it's incredibly rare.  I think this show would be an awesome find for someone to happen upon and binge on Netflix so it's too bad they didn't think it would be financially viable.

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22 hours ago, tv echo said:

It was kind of looking a little pessimistic about a movie," as it was difficult to find a path for both Sony and NBC to make a profit (they probably won't).

Production companies and  networks, in particular, need to start realizing that it can't or shouldn't always be about profits with everything. Obviously they can't keep producing something that isn't making money but taking the occasional loss to give something a proper ending can and will go a long way to keeping viewers coming back to check out the latest offerings. Building that kind of faith with viewers is invaluable. NBC has done wonders this year in regard to that and I applaud them for it. The others need to stand up and start taking notice.

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I think this show would be an awesome find for someone to happen upon and binge on Netflix so it's too bad they didn't think it would be financially viable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're getting the TV movie and a little closure, but frankly this show was never smart enough for a streaming service like Netflix. It was very much a product of network pablum, a paint by numbers procedural with pretty period costumes. That was my main issue with it, that it wasn't very ambitious in what it was trying to do. I would expect to see something a little more thought-provoking and higher concept on a basic cable channel or a streaming service. It's closer to Law and Order SVU than Stranger Things.

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5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're getting the TV movie and a little closure, but frankly this show was never smart enough for a streaming service like Netflix. It was very much a product of network pablum, a paint by numbers procedural with pretty period costumes. That was my main issue with it, that it wasn't very ambitious in what it was trying to do. I would expect to see something a little more thought-provoking and higher concept on a basic cable channel or a streaming service. It's closer to Law and Order SVU than Stranger Things.

How so?  It's actually as far from a formulaic Law & Order procedural as a show can get, which is why it has such a hardcore fanbase that's starting to rival the original Star Trek's in longevity and single-minded devotion.  Exactly what were you expecting the show to be that it failed to deliver for you?

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On 8/3/2018 at 6:33 AM, Daltrey said:

Production companies and  networks, in particular, need to start realizing that it can't or shouldn't always be about profits with everything. Obviously they can't keep producing something that isn't making money but taking the occasional loss to give something a proper ending can and will go a long way to keeping viewers coming back to check out the latest offerings. Building that kind of faith with viewers is invaluable. NBC has done wonders this year in regard to that and I applaud them for it. The others need to stand up and start taking notice.

NBC could care less about good will. They want to minimize costs (cheap productions) and maximize profits (as many eyes of 18-54 as possible). Very few people in reality boycott an entire network over a single bad programming decision. The good news is that shows on networks trying to sell soap are being pushed out by shows on streaming services trying to keep any viewer who pays them a subscription. It's even working for CBS, which is a hybrid by putting a terrible show like Discovery on a subscription site and giving it another season.

 

15 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

How so?  It's actually as far from a formulaic Law & Order procedural as a show can get, which is why it has such a hardcore fanbase that's starting to rival the original Star Trek's in longevity and single-minded devotion.  Exactly what were you expecting the show to be that it failed to deliver for you?

Netflix saved Lucifer, and that is so procedural that the main character compared it to Bones. I think Timeless was high concept, but the show got bogged down in creating a new timeline while being too invested in the "real" timeline. Even worse, the villains have no logical motivation.

I endorse the idea of a finale movie where they can try to cobble together a resolution, but I wasn't that excited about another season of 1)chase mother ship 2)steal clothes 3)find famous historical figure 4)find Rittenhouse sleeper 5)find out some minor piece of information back at HQ 6)Catch / kill Rittenhouse agent 7)fundamentally change the past because the Time Team deems it better 8)come back to find that nothing as bad as Lucy's sister disappearing happened, even though they arguably injured time worse than in the pilot.

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On 8/1/2018 at 6:46 PM, statsgirl said:

Would Wyatt be willing to lose his unborn child?

Simple - they see her drinking in the past, maybe in a prohibition era bar, wyatt is like "wtf? what about the baby??" and then Jessica says she lied

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8 hours ago, bros402 said:

Simple - they see her drinking in the past, maybe in a prohibition era bar, wyatt is like "wtf? what about the baby??" and then Jessica says she lied

Or not. Sadly, some women do still choose to drink alcohol during pregnancy despite the well-known risk to the baby.

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14 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Or not. Sadly, some women do still choose to drink alcohol during pregnancy despite the well-known risk to the baby.

Yeah, but she might want to keep Rittenhouse in her family and avoid the risk of FASD.

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4 hours ago, bros402 said:

Yeah, but she might want to keep Rittenhouse in her family and avoid the risk of FASD.

Jessica?  Presumably, HER baby is Wyatt's.  How would she keep Rittenhouse in her family?

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How so?  It's actually as far from a formulaic Law & Order procedural as a show can get, which is why it has such a hardcore fanbase that's starting to rival the original Star Trek's in longevity and single-minded devotion.  Exactly what were you expecting the show to be that it failed to deliver for you?

I might have sounded overly harsh because I really did enjoy this little show, but it's formulaic in exactly the manner described above by ketose:

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1)chase mother ship 2)steal clothes 3)find famous historical figure 4)find Rittenhouse sleeper 5)find out some minor piece of information back at HQ 6)Catch / kill Rittenhouse agent 7)fundamentally change the past because the Time Team deems it better 8)come back to find that nothing as bad as Lucy's sister disappearing happened, even though they arguably injured time worse than in the pilot.

The show never really strove to be more than a weekly costume romp. The most ambitious things it ever did were in the pilot, where Lucy's mother and sister were historically altered, and in the Season 2 finale, when Future Lucy and Future Wyatt show up. In between those two episodes were mostly filler that utilized the above highlighted formula.

I don't know that I ever expected it to be more, but I did wish it would strive to be a tad more ambitious given its premise. I just got really tired of them endlessly chasing after Rittenhouse, and there seemed to be really obvious solutions to their problem that didn't involve them being so reactive to everything instead of proactive. 

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19 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Jessica?  Presumably, HER baby is Wyatt's.  How would she keep Rittenhouse in her family?

Her idea of family - Wyatt's baby is half her. I dunno, the writers can come up with some simple motivation :P

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I think they can simply wipe Jessica out of existence and the baby goes with her. I don't see another way around it, and I don't see a finale where Lucy and Wyatt don't wind up together. It might help if they reveal the baby isn't Wyatt's. That's probably the best path forward with this unfortunate plot.

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On 8/3/2018 at 11:40 PM, legaleagle53 said:

How so?  It's actually as far from a formulaic Law & Order procedural as a show can get, which is why it has such a hardcore fanbase that's starting to rival the original Star Trek's in longevity and single-minded devotion.  Exactly what were you expecting the show to be that it failed to deliver for you?

Is it? It seems pretty formulaic. 

They find out the Mothership has gone somewhere, they chase it. They try to find out what Rittenhouse is trying to do there and stop whatever that is.  

In the first season there was a much higher emphasis on not damaging the timeline and trying to make sure things transpire exactly (or as close to exactly as possible) as they should.

In the second season they seem to be totally fine about imposing their own morals into situations and essentially don't care at all about messing with the timeline, as long as Rittenhouse's goal is foiled. 

But in both seasons there isn't really an overarching storyline or anything. There's no progression ever in either sides' plans. Rittenhouse keeps trying to screw with the past (in an effort to I guess make the present/future better for white males?) and the TimeTeam keeps trying to stop them, and in the end things end up exactly the same (even in the second season where they are just jumping rope with the timeline in certain cases.) How much more procedural can you get? 

Don't get me wrong, I like the show a whole lot, but that doesn't make it any less of a cop procedural with the added wrinkle of time travel. 

I was hoping for the series to kind of transition. Look at a series like Fringe. The first season was very much a "Case of the Week" style show, and it was very much a procedural in the spirit of The X-Files (another series which moved from a procedural format to include a more expansive storyline), but then it transitioned into a show with a more expansive storyline with story arcs going over the entire season and then series. 

In this sense it feels like they missed a big opportunity with the second season. They started messing with the timeline very early on. They should've been causing massive changes, why not have them go back to find out that they have drastically damaged the world they know, and then send them time hopping to try and fix it? They could even have someone who used to be on their side no longer on their side. Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus think they are always doing the right thing, but what if they come back to the present to find out they are now being hunted by Agent Christopher because of the changes they have been making to the timeline? They could've even brought in the concept of multiple timelines that they have created, and histories that deviate from what we know, but they never did, in actuality each episode ended in the same place it started. 

Edited by Maximum Taco
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This show did indeed have a lot of potential and the core three characters have great chemistry, so it could have gone a lot further and deeper.  If Netflix or another network had picked it up, I wouldn't have minded a retool and a change in showrunners and writers, since the current ones didn't seem to put too much thought into changes to the timeline or world-building.  If they were going to go case-of-the-week, they needn't have bothered with the clunky Rittenhouse "mystery".  As said above, the positive aspect of these shortcomings is there isn't a huge number of loose threads to wrap up in the movie.  I don't care enough about Jessica or Emma to want too much time eliminating them from the equation if need be.  I just hope they don't waste their time creating a whole new threat to deal with.  Rescuing Rufus and getting the timeline back with Lucy's sister should be enough.

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9 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Is it? It seems pretty formulaic. 

They find out the Mothership has gone somewhere, they chase it. They try to find out what Rittenhouse is trying to do there and stop whatever that is.  

In the first season there was a much higher emphasis on not damaging the timeline and trying to make sure things transpire exactly (or as close to exactly as possible) as they should.

In the second season they seem to be totally fine about imposing their own morals into situations and essentially don't care at all about messing with the timeline, as long as Rittenhouse's goal is foiled. 

But in both seasons there isn't really an overarching storyline or anything. There's no progression ever in either sides' plans. Rittenhouse keeps trying to screw with the past (in an effort to I guess make the present/future better for white males?) and the TimeTeam keeps trying to stop them, and in the end things end up exactly the same (even in the second season where they are just jumping rope with the timeline in certain cases.) How much more procedural can you get? 

Don't get me wrong, I like the show a whole lot, but that doesn't make it any less of a cop procedural with the added wrinkle of time travel. 

I was hoping for the series to kind of transition. Look at a series like Fringe. The first season was very much a "Case of the Week" style show, and it was very much a procedural in the spirit of The X-Files (another series which moved from a procedural format to include a more expansive storyline), but then it transitioned into a show with a more expansive storyline with story arcs going over the entire season and then series. 

In this sense it feels like they missed a big opportunity with the second season. They started messing with the timeline very early on. They should've been causing massive changes, why not have them go back to find out that they have drastically damaged the world they know, and then send them time hopping to try and fix it? They could even have someone who used to be on their side no longer on their side. Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus think they are always doing the right thing, but what if they come back to the present to find out they are now being hunted by Agent Christopher because of the changes they have been making to the timeline? They could've even brought in the concept of multiple timelines that they have created, and histories that deviate from what we know, but they never did, in actuality each episode ended in the same place it started. 

Fringe was able to make the shift it did because of a great writer's room. Fringe was a very special show, with execs that were huge fans, which kept it on the air.

I was also hoping for it to go into "holy crap we changed time too much" this season, too. Since imagine if they went back to the bunker and found it empty - or worse, found it occupied by government employees, what if the bunker had started to be used by NASA or whatever agency it belonged to?

But I am glad we will get the wrap up movie - and hopefully a time travel series with a fun cast like this that comes along later will do a nice mix of case of the week and overarching story (Person of Interest did the combination well for the first three seasons, then it went full bore into the overarching storyline for the last two seasons, which was *amazing*)

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9 hours ago, bros402 said:

Fringe was able to make the shift it did because of a great writer's room. Fringe was a very special show, with execs that were huge fans, which kept it on the air.

I was also hoping for it to go into "holy crap we changed time too much" this season, too. Since imagine if they went back to the bunker and found it empty - or worse, found it occupied by government employees, what if the bunker had started to be used by NASA or whatever agency it belonged to?

But I am glad we will get the wrap up movie - and hopefully a time travel series with a fun cast like this that comes along later will do a nice mix of case of the week and overarching story (Person of Interest did the combination well for the first three seasons, then it went full bore into the overarching storyline for the last two seasons, which was *amazing*)

That's true, but Fringe also started laying the groundwork really early on. Even in Season 1 they were gearing up to take the storyline big and laying the groundwork to make it work in Season 2 and beyond. Shows like this that are quirky and complex know that they can't get too far down the rabbit hole or they'll lose the audience. So they play the first season like a procedural and then hit the audience with the hook at the end of season 1, or midway through if they write a half season and that goes very well.  

I thought that's what they might have been doing here with the whole "Lucy's mom is Rittenhouse!" deal in the Season 1 finale. They could've easily played a lot of Season 2 (maybe even the whole season) with Lucy on the side of Rittenhouse, and the Time Team trying to get her back (this also would've allowed Jiya and Flynn to be more involved without that stupid installing a 4th chair sideplot), only to have her reveal at the midseason mark that she's gone native and really is working for Rittenhouse! But instead she's back with the Team at the end of episode 1 and we're back to rinse and repeat with the story of the week nonsense. 

Of course to make this believable they would've had to paint Rittenhouse as less cartoonishly evil. They really had the chance to make a complex nuanced enemy that was doing bad things for good reasons, in an "ends justify the means" sort of way, but instead they made them a bunch of Male Rights Activists with Time Travel technology. Honestly the more I think about it, this show (that was exceptionally well acted, and nicely produced) had the storyline of a 1990's Saturday morning cartoon. 

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More than the formulaic nature of the episodes, I had trouble with the loose historical accuracy and  secondarily with its US focus in which I have limited interest not being a US citizen.  There was better history in fanfic.

On 8/7/2018 at 2:29 PM, iMonrey said:

I think they can simply wipe Jessica out of existence and the baby goes with her.

In a sense, the show was about people who had been lost to them:  Lucy with Amy; Wyatt with Jessica; Flynn with his wife and daughter. And now Jiya losing Rufus.  Of the four, only Wyatt got his person back although I'm sure Rufus will be back in the movie.   It would be more satisfying to me for Wyatt to have his happy ending even if Lucy has to be single (and get Amy back).

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At this point, they've totally tainted Wyatt's wish to have Jessica back.  I do believe Lucy will get her sister back and of course, it's a given Rufus will be saved early in the movie, unless they plan to have him stumbling around in a subplot by himself (I guess they could have him interacting with FutureLucy and FutureWyatt).  I can see them giving a big redemptive sacrificial death to Flynn.  

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For me, they've  tainted Wyatt being with Lucy with how he's behaved to her since Jessica came back. (Granted I was never a fan of Lyatt to start with.) It's a hug hole they've dug themselves into.

It will be interesting to see if the writers can manage to find a way to satisfy both parts of the fandom.

Edited by statsgirl
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