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'We All Understand That There Is A Game Being Played' - Sam Donovan

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It genuinely shocked me how anti-Sam a lot of the forum talk got, because my sense of him for most of the show was kind of like what I got out of this (good) interview. That he's a bit of a game player, as we saw clearly in the beginning, and a bit snarky (which we heard about in discussion of stuff he blogged online before the season filmed), but that for the most part he wasn't being fake. And that Kini showed himself to be a really small person in how he responded (and that Ken just confirmed what we already knew about him being small).

If I ever need a really good seamstress I'll look up Kini. That doesn't mean he was also a good designer, or a particularly good human being. Sam's no hero of the piece in comparison, but at least he seemed to grow tired of acting like a shit fairly quickly, whereas Kini's crazy obsession never waned.

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I have no sympathy for Sam.  He earned any criticism that he's received.  Classic case of joyfully dishing it out while being unable to take it back.  I'm glad he's now off my screen and I hope that it stays that way.

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I work in a creative field and I've had others claim my work as their own; coworkers of mine have experienced the same. It really, really, really doesn't sit well. I think it's important to remember that Kini's behavior as shown to us over the course of months probably occurred in a much, much shorter timeframe, and he had to not only work next to this guy everyday, but watch him get tongue baths for sending craft projects down the runway each week. While Kini's behavior was not ideal, it was understandable to anyone who's ever been in his position.

Nothing about that interview changed my opinion of Sam. And really, if he wants to complain about Kini being petty and unable to let something go...pot, meet kettle. I lost count of the number of slaps he took at Kini.

Edited by designing1
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So, I guess Sam accomplished stirring up enough of a hornet's nest to get some contrarian sympathy. Hopefully he takes advantage, 'evolves' and rebrands himself as less of an asshole.

Edited by Julia
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I have no sympathy.....his backhanded "compliments" don't fool me.  One minute he says he likes Kini's collection, the next he is calling it a dress with a jockstrap over it.  

And the way he overrates himself....oh, just so you know, he was only there to push the show towards creativity.....and that he was just making this super creative genius stuff even if he couldn't complete it.  Sam is not that special of a snowflake, he was only invited back for drama...Under the Gunn is not real Project Runway, and he didn't make anything other that mesh messes with flats.

And this is all from him, so he can't blame editing or whatever, he is an asshole.

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If I remember correctly, he didn't just flirt with Isaac. There was that whole thing of him flirting with that Johnny guy who designs outfits for Katy Perry.

And since RuPaul's Drag Race was mentioned, Sam sort of reminds me of Pearl from season 7 of that show: another person who seemed to skate through a lot of the competition because they were blessed with not being ugly.

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51 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

Sam sort of reminds me of Pearl from season 7 of that show: another person who seemed to skate through a lot of the competition because they were blessed with not being ugly.

Did any of that justify the sheer level of cheap personal attacks from Kini and his gang though?  Admittedly Sam was slightly obnoxious for a bit at the beginning, but for most of the run of the show he was simply defending himself, or even more often not even bothering to defend himself. He wasn't the aggressor. My point being is that on a judged show people don't "skate by" through magic or sheer willpower. It falls on the judges, not the contestant. If there's fault it belongs there, with the judges. And honestly, again, Kini always seems to think this show is Project Seamstress and is about who does the best construction. Well that might make for a good reality show, but it's not this one. This one says right up front that it's primary focus is design, and Kini tends to make really well constructed outfits that range from outright ugly, to dated, to total WTF.  He needs to grow the hell up and realize that maybe he didn't always get picked as a winner because he's creatively a hack, albeit one who can saw like the Devil. Ken at least had some original ideas, so I was actually a bit more forgiving of him between the two of them, but even Ken once again showed his petty ugly side.

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16 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Did any of that justify the sheer level of cheap personal attacks from Kini and his gang though?  Admittedly Sam was slightly obnoxious for a bit at the beginning, but for most of the run of the show he was simply defending himself, or even more often not even bothering to defend himself. He wasn't the aggressor. My point being is that on a judged show people don't "skate by" through magic or sheer willpower. It falls on the judges, not the contestant. If there's fault it belongs there, with the judges. And honestly, again, Kini always seems to think this show is Project Seamstress and is about who does the best construction. Well that might make for a good reality show, but it's not this one. This one says right up front that it's primary focus is design, and Kini tends to make really well constructed outfits that range from outright ugly, to dated, to total WTF.  He needs to grow the hell up and realize that maybe he didn't always get picked as a winner because he's creatively a hack, albeit one who can saw like the Devil. Ken at least had some original ideas, so I was actually a bit more forgiving of him between the two of them, but even Ken once again showed his petty ugly side.

Cheap personal attacks?  Kini and Ken simply told the truth, every single thing that Ken said can be backed by something that Sam did.  Sam is a liar - yes, he lied by omission in not saying that he didn't make his outfit that Kini made.  Sam is a snake - he is using flirtation instead of talent to gain an advantage.  Its disrespectful to even come on a design show if you're not even going to try to do anything decent but are going to hang out and do your hair to look pretty for Issac.  

Mostly defending himself?  Like when he straight told Mitchell he had to "grow a thicker skin" instead of just apologizing for what he had said about him?  Defending himself, when he stood up and took credit for work he didn't do?

Sam's continually skating by falls on BOTH Sam and the judges.  Each have to take responsibility for their part.  Sam needs to take responsibility for basically skating by and trying to flirt his way into the final 3, Sam needs to take responsibility for taking credit for a design that was not his.  Issac needs to take responsibility for giving Sam a pass for being cute.  If Sam felt that flirting was a fair and reasonable strategy, and he is just doing "whatever it took" thats fine, but admit to it.  And if that is something he wants to admit to, I disagree with him.....I think he disrespects the better qualified competitors by using something other than skill to stay in the competition, I think he just disrespects the ideals of Project Runway by doing that.  But I think anything other than judging an outfit by the merits of that outfit disrespects what Project Runway is all about.

I see no problem with the judging awarding points for an outfit being well finished, because that is still about judging the outfit that walks down the runway, not how great Sam's hair looks today.

There is nothing petty about hoping that when you compete in a design competition that you and your competitors can respect it enough to use your actual talent and skill....not just being cute and flirty. 

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39 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Kini tends to make really well constructed outfits that range from outright ugly, to dated, to total WTF.

 

14 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I see no problem with the judging awarding points for an outfit being well finished, because that is still about judging the outfit that walks down the runway

Sam made outfits that ranged from outright ugly to total WTF as well, except they also put the "ass" in "assembled". Points to Kini for actually being able to properly present his vision, even if it's one I rarely share.

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Well, at least he only mentioned his " journey" once.

And while he denies "flirting", saying he was only trying to make the judges laugh, he also says he thinks that's why they kept him around as long as they did.

Can't have it both ways. Were his designs "all that" or was it that ridiculous little wink 'n' wave?

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32 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Cheap personal attacks?  Kini and Ken simply told the truth, every single thing that Ken said can be backed by something that Sam did.  Sam is a liar - yes, he lied by omission in not saying that he didn't make his outfit that Kini made.  Sam is a snake - he is using flirtation instead of talent to gain an advantage.  Its disrespectful to even come on a design show if you're not even going to try to do anything decent but are going to hang out and do your hair to look pretty for Issac.  

Mostly defending himself?  Like when he straight told Mitchell he had to "grow a thicker skin" instead of just apologizing for what he had said about him?  Defending himself, when he stood up and took credit for work he didn't do?

Sam's continually skating by falls on BOTH Sam and the judges.  Each have to take responsibility for their part.  Sam needs to take responsibility for basically skating by and trying to flirt his way into the final 3, Sam needs to take responsibility for taking credit for a design that was not his.  Issac needs to take responsibility for giving Sam a pass for being cute.  If Sam felt that flirting was a fair and reasonable strategy, and he is just doing "whatever it took" thats fine, but admit to it.  And if that is something he wants to admit to, I disagree with him.....I think he disrespects the better qualified competitors by using something other than skill to stay in the competition, I think he just disrespects the ideals of Project Runway by doing that.  But I think anything other than judging an outfit by the merits of that outfit disrespects what Project Runway is all about.

I see no problem with the judging awarding points for an outfit being well finished, because that is still about judging the outfit that walks down the runway, not how great Sam's hair looks today.

There is nothing petty about hoping that when you compete in a design competition that you and your competitors can respect it enough to use your actual talent and skill....not just being cute and flirty. 

Being a successful designer is about 50% being a salesman. This show doesn't always explore that aspect intentionally, but unintentionally it often does. Sam being charming to the judges is part of the salesmanship, part of the task. If they let it persuade them that something bad is actually good? Then they're hacks. Idiots. And if they aren't hacks?  Then we've got viewers putting their filter on the show to justify Kini and Ken acting like shits. And really the moment Ken and his stank ass get behind something I'd think a lot of people watching would discount it. He's actually not a bad designer, but if we learned anything last time he was on, it was that he was a drama queen who overstated and inflamed every conflict, every perceived injustice. And now Kini, who previously seemed sane, spent an entire season acting just like Ken. 

Sam did indeed say some stupid arrogant shit in the first few episodes for the most part. Nobody should deny that. But at least with the editing we saw, he backed off that a hell of a lot--perhaps not even for very wholesome reasons if he was playing to the camera and realized how it would look. But I credit that more than Kini and Ken seemingly being totally oblivious about how constantly haranguing and whining about everything Sam did sounded to the home viewing audience. They needed to learn to play their own game and just ignore Sam if they didn't like him, rather than harping on it every single show for a good part of the show. Because if he was trolling them, that just fed him. And if he wasn't trolling them (and I don't think he was after the first three episodes or so), then they just looked like children.

The part about the design and the credit was a legitimate beef, but blown so ridiculously out of proportion it was insane.  All Kini had to do was mention it to the judges himself--even next judging--rather than endless whining about it for what had to be months.   And while it wasn't gracious of Sam to not point out he'd had help, Kini literally went around after that acting like he was totally responsible for the outfit instead. It was just Sam being a run of the mill reality show contestant and trying to game play. Not admirable in a greater sense, but you tell the person you don't appreciate it and move on. Or as I said, take concrete action like bringing it up at another judging. Not whine about it endlessly, name call, and literally pan everything the guy did, whether it was actually good or bad that week (a lot of bad, but not all of it was). 

Months of being constantly passive-aggressive must have take a toll on Kini. One can hope at least. As for Sam?  He deserved some of what he got, but I think at the end of the day this might even be more about what Kini did to himself than what he did to Sam.  He lowered himself. 

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18 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Being a successful designer is about 50% being a salesman. This show doesn't always explore that aspect intentionally, but unintentionally it often does. Sam being charming to the judges is part of the salesmanship, part of the task. If they let it persuade them that something bad is actually good? Then they're hacks. Idiots. And if they aren't hacks?  Then we've got viewers putting their filter on the show to justify Kini and Ken acting like shits. And really the moment Ken and his stank ass get behind something I'd think a lot of people watching would discount it. He's actually not a bad designer, but if we learned anything last time he was on, it was that he was a drama queen who overstated and inflamed every conflict, every perceived injustice. And now Kini, who previously seemed sane, spent an entire season acting just like Ken. 

Sam did indeed say some stupid arrogant shit in the first few episodes for the most part. Nobody should deny that. But at least with the editing we saw, he backed off that a hell of a lot--perhaps not even for very wholesome reasons if he was playing to the camera and realized how it would look. But I credit that more than Kini and Ken seemingly being totally oblivious about how constantly haranguing and whining about everything Sam did sounded to the home viewing audience. They needed to learn to play their own game and just ignore Sam if they didn't like him, rather than harping on it every single show for a good part of the show. Because if he was trolling them, that just fed him. And if he wasn't trolling them (and I don't think he was after the first three episodes or so), then they just looked like children.

The part about the design and the credit was a legitimate beef, but blown so ridiculously out of proportion it was insane.  All Kini had to do was mention it to the judges himself--even next judging--rather than endless whining about it for what had to be months.   And while it wasn't gracious of Sam to not point out he'd had help, Kini literally went around after that acting like he was totally responsible for the outfit instead. It was just Sam being a run of the mill reality show contestant and trying to game play. Not admirable in a greater sense, but you tell the person you don't appreciate it and move on. Or as I said, take concrete action like bringing it up at another judging. Not whine about it endlessly, name call, and literally pan everything the guy did, whether it was actually good or bad that week (a lot of bad, but not all of it was). 

Months of being constantly passive-aggressive must have take a toll on Kini. One can hope at least. As for Sam?  He deserved some of what he got, but I think at the end of the day this might even be more about what Kini did to himself than what he did to Sam.  He lowered himself. 

This show intentionally changed to a blind runway, ostensibly to avoid rewarding designers for "personality."  So, this show is not meant to be a perfect replica of how to sell shitty designs in the real world.   This show was never meant to be about salesmanship...you were supposed to get into the top or bottom based on the outfit, which is why there is a blind runway. And in real life, exactly who is Sam selling shitty mesh jumpsuits to?  In the real world, the real, real world, retailers need to sell product.  Unless you find people that want to wear shitty mesh jumpsuits, Sam can have all the personality in the world and its not going to make a difference.  Unless you're going to have a hologram of Sam there to flirt with buyers and try to convince them that a shitty mesh jumpsuit with flats and a girl scout sash is really fierce.

Ken's "stank ass?"  Ken has actually worked during this competition and taken it seriously.  He told Sam about himself, and I think he did just fine.  The reason people like Sam get away with being a little shit is because people let them get away with it.  I'm glad that Ken held his feet to the fire. I don't think Ken had any reason to apologize.  According to the world of Sam, the fashion world is vicious, which is why he told Mitchell to get a thicker skin.  I guess Sam can pick up a thicker skin for himself too.   Every word of what Ken said was the truth, and I'm sure Sam is so used to getting away with his behavior because people are too scared to call him out.....lest he make himself a victim as he is valiantly trying to do.

I think its a little dismissive to say that someone's beef "isn't all that big."  It was legitimate and I personally would take great umbrage at someone taking credit for my work when it is so well received.  However, since that is what we are playing at, any of Sam's indignation at Ken's "read" is also way overblown, since at least Ken was telling the truth.  

I understand why Kini never said anything, because he would get the same negative feedback he is getting now.  He would have been called out as "petty" if he had brought it up later.  But that is all part of Sam's little game.  Act like a little shit, and then when someone calls you out for it, play the victim.

And honestly,  I would take the TH with a grain of salt.  Producers can't control what a person says, but they can ask them about particular situations and pointed questions about other designers.  They can then choose when to play those TH in the course of the show.  However, they can't make up what is said in the workroom or what is done in the workroom.  Kini has said that the producers told him that "Sam v. Kini" was going to be a storyline, so I can see the producers asking he, Ken and the other designers about Sam.  However, I think what everyone said in their TH about Sam was pretty spot on, with Emily trying really hard to be kind.

Edited by RCharter
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7 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Months of being constantly passive-aggressive must have take a toll on Kini.

 

10 minutes ago, Kromm said:

And while it wasn't gracious of Sam to not point out he'd had help, Kini literally went around after that acting like he was totally responsible for the outfit instead.

The entire season was aired over 13 weeks. I don't know their shooting schedule but there's no way it took them anywhere near that long to film. I'd say three weeks, maybe four. NYC is expensive; there's no way they paid for hotel and studio space for "months", plus per diem, if the contestants get it, plus having their entire off-screen crew on hand. Why do you think nearly all challenges are one day now? $$$$$$$ I'm not one to hold a grudge but if I had to work side by side for a month with someone who hadn't given me credit for a major contribution to a successful project I could definitely remain pissed for the duration, especially when I see them being favored at judging, which would feed the pissiness. And I wouldn't go "tell" on that person, either, because it would be as unprofessional as the original offense and likely heighten the workroom tension rather than diffuse it.

Sam wasn't "not gracious", he was lying by omission and unprofessional to boot. While Kini might not have been entirely responsible for that outfit (I honestly don't recall if the entirety of the design was Sam's) without Kini's skills Sam would have sent (yet another) falling apart mess down the runway.

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You just said it yourself. It's a blind runway. If that invalidates any claim that salesmanship is involved, then it also invalidates the objection that Sam was getting places by manipulating the judges. Because... they had to decide what they thought before he mesmerized them into forgetting whatever you think they may have thought otherwise.

But let ME be the one to bring up that it stops being blind after they pick the top and bottom. So yes, that's where a sales job might help. But at most it's taking someone from #3 to #1. Unless we get into how the blind runway isn't fooling anyone, and then that's a much deeper problem than Sam himself could ever be.

If the producers MADE Kini harp on the situation constantly shame on them, but also shame on him for giving in. I still think HE took the hit in terms of looking like a fool, so if we're talking compromises, he compromised his dignity to get more screentime. Makes him no better than Sam, if we're to believe Sam was some kind of master manipulator trying to make this all about him. In terms of Talking Heads vs. workroom?  I'd say most of Kini and Ken's hyper-focus on Sam, rather than as I said, simply ignoring him and maintaining some dignity, was in the workroom or even the breakroom. 

As I said, Kini had a right to be upset about not getting that credit, but whether a producer suggests it or not, you don't hold onto that for months, or the responsibility for it flips from the original person to the one who can't let it go. Yes, I believe even if you never got an apology. By not doing so, Kini as I said lowered himself--that dignity thing again. Unless it's being claimed that Sam baited him every single time. That's ludicrous--or at least you'd have to think the producers are protecting Sam and cut an awful lot out to help some "victim" act. For the most part what was shown was Sam shrugging it off, admittedly because after a while he had no choice. Or as I said, even if that WAS intentionally manipulative--so he looked better on TV--that's par for the course for this show. The mad dog looks worse than the craft one, and then Kini fell right into that trap (and I can't admire being blind to that if that was the case).

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27 minutes ago, Kromm said:

You just said it yourself. It's a blind runway. If that invalidates any claim that salesmanship is involved, then it also invalidates the objection that Sam was getting places by manipulating the judges. Because... they had to decide what they thought before he mesmerized them into forgetting whatever you think they may have thought otherwise.

But let ME be the one to bring up that it stops being blind after they pick the top and bottom. So yes, that's where a sales job might help. But at most it's taking someone from #3 to #1. Unless we get into how the blind runway isn't fooling anyone, and then that's a much deeper problem than Sam himself could ever be.

If the producers MADE Kini harp on the situation constantly shame on them, but also shame on him for giving in. I still think HE took the hit in terms of looking like a fool, so if we're talking compromises, he compromised his dignity to get more screentime. Makes him no better than Sam, if we're to believe Sam was some kind of master manipulator trying to make this all about him. In terms of Talking Heads vs. workroom?  I'd say most of Kini and Ken's hyper-focus on Sam, rather than as I said, simply ignoring him and maintaining some dignity, was in the workroom or even the breakroom. 

As I said, Kini had a right to be upset about not getting that credit, but whether a producer suggests it or not, you don't hold onto that for months, or the responsibility for it flips from the original person to the one who can't let it go. Yes, I believe even if you never got an apology. By not doing so, Kini as I said lowered himself--that dignity thing again. Unless it's being claimed that Sam baited him every single time. That's ludicrous--or at least you'd have to think the producers are protecting Sam and cut an awful lot out to help some "victim" act. For the most part what was shown was Sam shrugging it off, admittedly because after a while he had no choice. Or as I said, even if that WAS intentionally manipulative--so he looked better on TV--that's par for the course for this show. The mad dog looks worse than the craft one, and then Kini fell right into that trap (and I can't admire being blind to that if that was the case).

It actually doesn't, because there are a million ways to know that an outfit belonged to Sam.  Does it have flats?  OK, might be Sam's.  Is it horribly constructed?  Probably Sam's.  Does it look half finished, does it look ridiculous, does it look like a kite stuck in a tree...probably Sam's.  Especially as it got further into the competition and the field was narrowed to really talented designers.....and Sam....it became easier to deduce which outfit belonged to Sam, because it was the worst outfit on the runway.

However, the ideal of the show is to avoid "salesmanship" and "personality" which is why they switched to a blind runway.  So, the ideals of PR is to judge an outfit based on the merits of the outfit and nothing else.  The ideal of this show has never been about "salesmanship," it has been about the outfit.  To pay homage to that ideal PR has a blind runway.  

Therefore your points on validity are misplaced.

Yes, Sam was able to "sell" people from getting sent home with a wink n' a wave and a flirt.  But that has never been the ideal for the show.  The idea of the critique was to try to understand the thought process behind an outfit and to get feedback from the designer.  Was there a mitigating circumstance, was there something else that the designer thought of that you couldn't see on the runway.  It wasn't meant to be a place to "sell" someone by flirting, it was still a place to talk about your outfit, not to flirt and wink your way out of going home.

The producers didn't make Kini do anything, they asked a question and he answered honestly.  They chose which TH to air, and when to air them.  I don't find either of them to be wrong.  Kini answered a question, the producers put together a show.   Kini ended up looking bad, but not nearly as bad as Sam.  And unfortunately, Kini had more to lose.  Sam will always be a talentless hack that is going to design shitty mesh jumpsuits....but Kini is talented and was probably doing very good business before this show.  And I'm hoping for his sake, he will do good business after.....I tend to think he will be fine.

If I saw any lack of dignity in the workroom, it was from Sam who was shown not doing anything in the workroom during the challenge with that horrible rainbow dress.  Its one thing if you're talented like Swapnil and you take your time, or if you are super fast like Kini and you're done early.  Its another if you're Sam who doesn't have any talent and sits around looking at some crappy fabric he draped.

Kini can hold onto his grudge however long he wants, I wouldn't tell a person how long they have a right to hold onto things.  Sam is responsible for his actions no matter how long Kini holds onto his grudge.  You don't become any less responsible for your shitty behavior because time passes.  Months later and Sam is still being a bitter bitch over what Ken told him...which was the damn truth.  

Edited by RCharter
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Eh. I don't think there's any question that Sam has worked fairly hard to establish his brand as someone who looks fabulous talking trash, and that it backfired on him. And while I'm sure it's genuinely awful for him to have people running around the internet judging him, that's pretty much the entire basis for what little celebrity he's got. His outside work is baldly derivative of what's already out there, and his work on PR was amateurish and uninspired.

And then keep in mind, Sam is the elder statesman who had this to say about a non-elimination on PR Junior:

Quote

Fuck this nonsense. 

I'm sorry, but like anyone with a functioning nervous system (we're going to need to take a tally on how often I say that) non-eliminations piss me off 90% of the time. Sure, if a promising designer takes a nose dive for no apparent reason, feel free to give them half a pass, but if you have a designer who's main contribution to the program has been pseudo-sassy commentary, and a metric fuck ton of crop tops, then it starts to smell like unfairity*.

Read the rest for his - let's call it uncharitable - assessment of the childrens' construction and finishing skills. 

So, looking forward to Sam dropping his current persona like a hot rock and showing all that promise and interestingity. He has plenty of time, if he chooses to use it. 

Edited by Julia · Reason: spelling, let me show you it.
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Ha!

Thanks, Julia.

Now, what's that expression? Something about hoisted with one's own petard?

Yeah, that's it!

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5 hours ago, gingerormaryann said:

I think that interview was the East Coast editor's idea of a parody of Isaac interviewing Sam.  At least, I hope it was.

This is my parody of Issac interviewing Sam

Issac:  "so, how does it feel to be simply fabulous Sam?"

Sam: "I mean, it feels pretty great Issac, tee hee"

Issac: "but seriously, do you realize what an inspiration you are to the world of fashion?  I mean you picked flats...flats!!!!! This girl loves a flat, and you picked flats.....it was so inspired....how does it feel to be such an inspiration Sam?"

Sam: "tee hee...Issac, you're so silly, but honestly, I can't help it that I'm so amazing and everyone else is the worst....its really hard being me!"

Issac:  "I mean, I can see that it must be difficult for you to be so cute and so phenomenal....I mean, you made a dress that looked like a kite stuck in a tree....its just....I can not even say it, but lets just say when I saw that dress they had to stop filming because I messed myself and it was embarrassing!"

Sam: "I get it Issac, all of my shit is pretty amazing....its just too bad that everyone else on this show sucks, and has no talent, and talks shit....I never talk shit Issac....I just keep it real....but when anyone else does it....they are clearly bullying me because they are so scared of my talent."

Issac: "I agree, you wanna come over later for mimosas and talk about it while I run my fingers through your hair?"

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16 hours ago, gingerormaryann said:

I think that interview was the East Coast editor's idea of a parody of Isaac interviewing Sam.  At least, I hope it was.

I hope so too, because otherwise it was so biased as to make it totally unprofessional.

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I think if this show was my only exposure to Sam I'd've been more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Sam needs to whittle down his use of the word "like."

I loved the black mesh dress pictured in the interview.

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7 hours ago, Julia said:

I think if this show was my only exposure to Sam I'd've been more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This show was my only exposure to Sam and while his flirtiness was eyeroll inducing, he really lost me at not giving credit where credit is due. The former shows immaturity and ego; the latter shows a lack of integrity.

Edited by designing1 · Reason: Flirtiness, not flintiness!
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Well, yeah. But if it were his first bite at the apple, there'd be some room for growth. I was way more unhappy to see Ken and Asha than I was Sam, because they behaved way worse in their first appearances than he did. Asha definitely took the edge off my dislike, and I got to admire Ken, because they learned from how they behaved under pressure and became better. 

Sam, on the other hand, took hold of his UTG exposure and branded himself as a mean, dismissive catty jerk on his blog without the help of any editor (and did it to children, which was a truly crappy thing to do).  Then he came back ready to roll over everyone in sight in wall-to-wall talking heads where you could actually see him searching for something nasty to say at times to keep the camera pointed at him. Nobody made him do that, and I think he richly deserves to reap whatever limited whirlwind he gets for it before he continues his schmooze up the ladder.

Edited by Julia
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I just can't with Sam. I disliked him a lot on PRAS (never saw Under the Gunn), but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say some of it was due to editing. But nope, he really is a shitty person. I can't believe all the shade he threw at Kini and Ken in that interview. He pretty much throws everybody under the bus, including the viewers..."Most of the Internet wears Kohl's, so..." Yes, Sam, we poor peons who wear Kohl's can't appreciate the brilliant creative artiste that you are. You are obviously God's gift to the fashion design world, and we should bow down to your illimitable superiority.

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8 minutes ago, gingerandcloves said:

I just can't with Sam. I disliked him a lot on PRAS (never saw Under the Gunn), but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say some of it was due to editing. But nope, he really is a shitty person. I can't believe all the shade he threw at Kini and Ken in that interview. He pretty much throws everybody under the bus, including the viewers..."Most of the Internet wears Kohl's, so..." Yes, Sam, we poor peons who wear Kohl's can't appreciate the brilliant creative artiste that you are. You are obviously God's gift to the fashion design world, and we should bow down to your illimitable superiority.

well Kohl's sells things that an actual client would want to wear.  If you aren't ready to look like a kite stuck in a tree or wear a mesh jumpsuit you clearly just don't get it.

Retailers who have to actually sell things to large segment of the population realize that real human being don't want to look like a rainbow parachute covered in mesh, or a seersucker girl scout.  

No matter how pretty Sam thinks he is.

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1 hour ago, gingerandcloves said:

He pretty much throws everybody under the bus, including the viewers..."Most of the Internet wears Kohl's, so..."

Well, now I feel bad that the guy who designs for QVC didn't manage to anoint the guy who honed his aesthetic at the Gap the winner of the job designing for Bauble Bar and Chinese Laundry.

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Well, I'm just not sure that someone whose professional experience was largely at the Gap (that would be Sam),

who has spent a season of television batting his eyelashes at a guy who's the spokesmodel for a line he doesn't design on a home shopping network (that would be Isaac),

and who was competing for a job at the low-end companies Project Runway can get to sponsor their various walls in return for in-show promotion (that would be Bauble Bar and Chinese Laundry)

is in a position to look down on Kohl's.

Edited by Julia
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After sludging through the interview, I have to ask what is an editor for Previously.TV?  That article was unfocused and with long, long stretches of the writer giving her opinions and Sam saying "right".   If it was a redemption article, it didn't work because he sort of reconfirmed he's a douche but it would have been nice to see it in readable form.

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10 minutes ago, gingerormaryann said:

After sludging through the interview, I have to ask what is an editor for Previously.TV?  That article was unfocused and with long, long stretches of the writer giving her opinions and Sam saying "right".   If it was a redemption article, it didn't work because he sort of reconfirmed he's a douche but it would have been nice to see it in readable form.

I think Sarah deserves a break on this. I see the passion against Sam is pretty fierce, and that's no big deal, but that piece was clearly constructed as a conversation, and it's the way a lot of stuff for this site has always been done--in that conversational tone. It's not for everyone, but I don't think there was an agenda, like trying to redeem Sam. It is darn long, but the flip side of that is that means it wasn't selectively edited (which is a way a lot of articles peddle an agenda, like "redeeming" someone). 

Perhaps the most negative spin I could give it (aside from agreeing its darn long) is that if the primary accusations against Sam (well the ones I see here) are that he charms his way into things, then maybe that's what he's doing in that conversation. There's a lot of "[laughs]" reactions, which I suppose if taken literally could be construed as Sam charming Sarah. I don't personally see what's wrong with that, but given the direction of the criticisms of him here on the show, I can see why that might also spark reactions against the interview itself, where he's provoking laughter out of the other person talking.

Edited by Kromm
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I thought the interview tone and content were fine. It's television not politics, so I wasn't really bothered. 

Sam blogged negatively about the kids on PR Juniors? Really? What a dick. Also, what a dumbass, those kids were awesome. At least they practice the skills needed in the profession they want to pursue. He should probably blog less and sew more. 

What I took from the interview is that Sam has a depth of arrogance beyond what I saw on the show. He wanted to come on and push the show more towards fashion, like the show needs him to fix it, while admitting he lacks the skills to really do so. I don't get that. I also don't get how he could do that when his reference at one point in the interview was a later episode of America's Next Top Model, a show that was hardly about high fashion even in the season he mentioned.  Remaking a dress from that source is better than remaking McQueen or whoever? Makes no sense to me. 

I have to admit though I think he's kind of interesting. Someone upthread mentioned Pearl from RuPaul and I think that's apt (except Pearl had skill). With both of them I get this sense they grew up wanting to be on a show, not necessarily to be the thing the show is about. He talks about the mechanics of the show, what he wanted to do to it, how he adapted to be successful within it. Not a lot of passion for design comes through, imho.

It makes me wonder about the impact of reality TV consumption on our understanding of the world. As much as he criticized Kini for designing for a woman that doesn't exist, I think Sam may design around an understanding of fashion as portrayed in mainstream reality shows. Which is to say... Is his target/inspiration any more real? Or is he trapped in a construct of his own? 

All that said, I hope this is the last time my world and his overlap. He's pretty to look at and makes me think about our culture, but he's a weak character. Not witty enough to be a fun bitch, not nice enough to not be bitchy.  This interview is a good ending point for me, far as this kid is concerned. 

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Reminder that the number one rule at PTV is to be civil. That applies to posts about editorial content just as it does to general discussion posts. You can disagree with the content of a story without attacking the people that write them. A couple of posts not in line with that have been removed. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

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I've only ever seen Sam on PRAS, and I don't hate him.  I mean, I don't like his clothes at all, but I hate jumpsuits, and mesh mostly doesn't work for me. So I was never going to be on his fashion page. I don't think he's as innovative as he, or some of the judges, seem to think he is. Maybe he will be someday, but his ideas on PRAS were on occasion really stupid.  However, I don't think he's a snake, or underhanded, or shitty to people. The interview kind of showed him to be who he is: a little funny, a little mean, a little critical, and a little self deprecating. I enjoyed it.

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On 5/14/2016 at 5:43 PM, whimsey98 said:

This is so sad. I got an announcement from Vermont Country Store that proudly announced that it is "Seersucker Season," and I immediately thought of Sam.  I think "seersucker" is forever doomed for me.

He also killed mesh. Sex shops everywhere should be livid.

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I was shopping the other day and saw seersucker tops with mesh on the back over the seersucker, so Sam may have been on trend. On the other hand, aren't they supposed to be doing what could be next not what is available now? Also, it was as ugly in person as it was on TV (or even uglier). And it was in a store Sam would have used as a put-down, so there's that.

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1 hour ago, auntlada said:

I was shopping the other day and saw seersucker tops with mesh on the back over the seersucker, so Sam may have been on trend. On the other hand, aren't they supposed to be doing what could be next not what is available now? Also, it was as ugly in person as it was on TV (or even uglier). And it was in a store Sam would have used as a put-down, so there's that.

I would die of irony if they were selling some mesh seersucker tops at Kohls...so I hope it wasn't Kohls because I want to live.

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7 hours ago, RCharter said:

I would die of irony if they were selling some mesh seersucker tops at Kohls...so I hope it wasn't Kohls because I want to live.

No, but it was a similar sort of department store, so I wouldn't be surprised. Actually, I can find both, but not in the same article of clothing, on Kohl's website.

No neoprene, though. Maybe that's what makes it high fashion.

Edited by auntlada
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